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WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1429792
United States
06/18/2011 08:24 AM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
This is an incredibly sad and disturbing story. However, the father was selfish and unloving.

Why do I say that? Because he just destroyed the lives of his own children, and they were innocent and had nothing to do with it.

Imagine that little girl has to grow up and live with the knowledge that because she acted up before bed one night, her daddy burned himself alive. She will probably feel incredible guilt over this for her entire life.

It will be a miracle if she comes out of this normal, same goes for the rest of the children.

If he truly loved his children, and was putting them first, he never would have done what he did.

Suicide is never the answer. In fact, it's an act of pure selfishness most of the time because the person only wants to end their own problems, not caring about the tragic mess they are leaving behind for their loved ones, especially children.

Pitiful.
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


Ahhhhh and the poor mother who drove him to it is all heartbroken as well.

She should have the burned body thrown in jail until it pays child support
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1343636
United Kingdom
06/18/2011 08:24 AM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
wtf dumbass

there is NO SUCH THING as debtors prison!!!

wtf

In the UK also, been there done that wakeup




.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1288576


MWAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAA YOU BELIEVE THAT? LOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1433063
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1311987
United States
06/18/2011 08:27 AM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
Hummm, I think manning up and getting a job would have been slightly less painfull.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1433223


How do you "man up" and get a job even AFTER you get out of prison?

Ever fill out an employment application?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1429792


ROFL! This man got out of prison didn't provide for his kids then kills himself and you feel bad for him? The system is unjust? What is wrong with this world!?
Anonymous Coward
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United Kingdom
06/18/2011 08:28 AM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
What a jackass. Not only could this loser not provide for his child, but he decided it would be a good idea to leave the kid with a huge psychological trauma as well.
 Quoting: Evil_Twin


One day your turn will come, how will you handle it ohh brave one hmmmmmmmm.
Anonymous Coward
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United Kingdom
06/18/2011 08:30 AM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
In 2009, James Ball lost his job and was unable to continue making child support payments. His ex-wife, Karen Ball, filed for a hearing on contempt of court, which the court scheduled for 6/24/2011. She alleges that Thomas owes thousands in back child support and attorney’s fees and demands the court sentence him to jail until he can pay the amounts demanded.

James Ball burned himself to death on June 16, 2011 using a large amount of gasoline in front of the Keene, New Hampshire court house. Thomas Ball in a "suicide letter" stated he believed he would end up in jail, saying:

I am due in court the end of the month. The ex-wife lawyer wants me jailed for back child support. The amount ranges from $2,200. to $3,000. depending on who you ask. Not big money after being separated over ten years and unemployed for the last two. But I do owe it. If I show up for court without the money and the lawyer say jail, then the judge will have the bailiff take me into custody. There really are no surprises on how the system works once you know how it actually works. And it does not work anything like they taught you in high school history or civics class.
[link to freekeene.com]


THAT'S AMERICA...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1433063


There is no "Debtors" Prison. That was a court order for child support you stupid fear monger!

yeahsure
 Quoting: snow_bunny


You are wrong!!!
Anonymous Coward
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United States
06/18/2011 08:31 AM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
Sad case, but not an isolated one.. and as far as the "scarring?... Bitch is going got have a teenager on their hands, and when they do, they will "slit the throat" of the one that "got their daddy killed"..

Unless of course the cunt can "brainwash" the child into believing "daddy was mean, daddy tried to rape you (yada, yada, yada).

Takes two to tango, and the child always loses, but women in the US, are certified sociopathic, with psychotic tendencies, fits of uncontrollable rage, and delusions of grandeur..

The memory of an elephant (for anything that caused emotional distress), the deviousness of a master in the art of torture, pain, and emotional scarring of the opposite sex.. need I go on..

Women are truly "evil", and the courts are co-opted by the split between their legs...

Guy did what he thought was the only thing left to do.. make a statement... fucin bitch!..
Evil_Twin

User ID: 1426506
United States
06/18/2011 08:32 AM

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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
What a jackass. Not only could this loser not provide for his child, but he decided it would be a good idea to leave the kid with a huge psychological trauma as well.
 Quoting: Evil_Twin


One day your turn will come, how will you handle it ohh brave one hmmmmmmmm.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1343636


I won't take the lazy, selfish, and cowardly way out like that jackass did.
Hellbilly
Anonymous Coward
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United States
06/18/2011 08:37 AM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
"My story starts with the infamous slapping incident of April 2001. While putting my four year old daughter to bed, she began licking my hand. After giving her three verbal warnings I slapped her. She got a cut lip. My wife asked me to leave to calm things down."
[link to www.sentinelsource.com]

wtf
Anonymous Coward
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06/18/2011 08:43 AM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
"My story starts with the infamous slapping incident of April 2001. While putting my four year old daughter to bed, she began licking my hand. After giving her three verbal warnings I slapped her. She got a cut lip. My wife asked me to leave to calm things down."
[link to www.sentinelsource.com]

wtf
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1430885


I would be more concerned about the "sexual connotations" she was performing (children have to learn that from somewhere).. best investigate your wife, and immediate "family members" (uncle older sibling, cousins, etc..)...
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 886592
United States
06/18/2011 08:44 AM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
Child support laws are about 50 years behind on the times. They essentially put ALL the responcibilty on the man to provide for the family. This impoverishes the man and benefits the woman who ends up using most of the money to play with. It cause men to not want to marry, not want to have children.

We no longer live in a fully male dominated society so therefore the laws should reflect that.

If your splitting up custody 50/50 then you should pay for your children 50% of the time.
Anonymous Coward
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06/18/2011 08:45 AM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
All he had to do was make some sort of payment. Even only 10.00 dollars a week would have been enough until he got on his feet. The courts couldn't have done diddly. Millions of fathers are in the same boat.
Anonymous Coward
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United States
06/18/2011 08:45 AM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
Hummm, I think manning up and getting a job would have been slightly less painfull.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1433223


How do you "man up" and get a job even AFTER you get out of prison?

Ever fill out an employment application?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1429792


ROFL! This man got out of prison didn't provide for his kids then kills himself and you feel bad for him? The system is unjust? What is wrong with this world!?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1311987


You you unthinking heartless fuck.

I will just point out that his kids and his ex are now taken care of by his Social Security

My ex actually told me I should kill myself so she could collect.

I hope you get put in a similar situation so you can evaluate
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 590644
United States
06/18/2011 08:49 AM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
His last statement is here:

[link to www.sentinelsource.com]

Makes a document of 16 to 18 pages depending on font and page size.

Lots of comments follow the statement; just going through them now.

All kinds of political, social, moral ramifications.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 590644


This file: [link to freekeene.com] is six pages - rather blurry image file, but it establishes the time line.

The trigger event was in 2001, and his decision to self-immolate was 2011, approximately ten years later.

He was 47 when the trigger events took place and 57 at death.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1292002
United States
06/18/2011 08:56 AM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
I thought the payment the father made was based on his income. They will take part of social security to pay child support. If he had no money, then can they really put him in jail?

Do most people kill themselves rather than go to jail? I know jail is bad, but maybe he had other issues also.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1412369
United States
06/18/2011 09:04 AM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
Wake up, the courts can state whatever amount they want, they're suppose to use a formula but it can be changed by a judge at their discretion, kind of like a recommended prison sentence...

In 2009, James Ball lost his job and was unable to continue making child support payments. His ex-wife, Karen Ball, filed for a hearing on contempt of court, which the court scheduled for 6/24/2011. She alleges that Thomas owes thousands in back child support and attorney’s fees and demands the court sentence him to jail until he can pay the amounts demanded.

James Ball burned himself to death on June 16, 2011 using a large amount of gasoline in front of the Keene, New Hampshire court house. Thomas Ball in a "suicide letter" stated he believed he would end up in jail, saying:

I am due in court the end of the month. The ex-wife lawyer wants me jailed for back child support. The amount ranges from $2,200. to $3,000. depending on who you ask. Not big money after being separated over ten years and unemployed for the last two. But I do owe it. If I show up for court without the money and the lawyer say jail, then the judge will have the bailiff take me into custody. There really are no surprises on how the system works once you know how it actually works. And it does not work anything like they taught you in high school history or civics class.
[link to freekeene.com]


THAT'S AMERICA...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1433063


There is no "Debtors" Prison. That was a court order for child support you stupid fear monger!

yeahsure
 Quoting: snow_bunny


You are wrong!!!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1343636


I thought the payment the father made was based on his income. They will take part of social security to pay child support. If he had no money, then can they really put him in jail?

Do most people kill themselves rather than go to jail? I know jail is bad, but maybe he had other issues also.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1292002
arosebyanyothername

User ID: 1415639
United States
06/18/2011 09:05 AM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
After reading the story, his last statement, and the comments on here; all I can say is the family unit has been totally disseminated. I am appalled at the hate that is coming out of this thread.
Chaos

User ID: 1428518
United States
06/18/2011 09:10 AM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
If the court finds beyond a reasonable doubt that the parent has willfully failed to pay pursuant to a valid child support order, the court can order the nonpaying parent jailed. (A parent who can show that they did not have the ability to pay will not be found in contempt of court, even though he or she will continue to owe the money.)

[link to www.divorcelawinfo.com]

If he did not have the ability to pay he would not have been jailed
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1314480
United States
06/18/2011 09:12 AM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
That's what happens when the fucking divorce laws aren't reformed and the women ALWAYS FUCKING WIN. ALWAYS. ALWAYS.

I've never seen a case where the wife lost. Never. Doesn't matter if the wife have a $200k a year job and the father is unemployed. The wife wins. Every time.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1433063


Really? I lost. I am a middle class mother with a Masters Degree in Marketing. My ex and I split and he took our kid to a small town he grew up in 100 miles from the major city I live in. I filed for custody here in the major city, but felt that it was my obligation to notify him that I had done so. He and his mother rushed to file their own custody case in the small town. The small town deputized his mother so she could drive 100miles back to me and personally "serve" me the papers. (all this time my major city was still processing my paperwork) Because my ex served me first, the court case had to be held in this small town. This small town doesnt like big city folk, and in the court hearing we both got joint cutody BUT********* he was awarded "custodial parent" (even though his income is barely over poverty level and he and his girlfriend are on wellfare) AND*******GUESS WHAT?? I was awarded to pay child support to him every month, with only visitation rights to my daughter.

This was 4 years ago. I have recently taken him back to court to get half the time with my daughter(because that is what joint custody is suppose to be about...not this stupid visitation crap of only once every other weekend) and so, it is more equal now-but I still pay him...AND he and his girlfriend now have two kids of their own, still on foodstamps and medicaid..living in a really bad part of the city, and my daughter suffers.

I have an older daughter who is starting middle school this year (not from this relationship) and I am putting her in a private school. I begged my ex to please let me put my other daughter in a private school too, because she currently attends a highly over-populated city district school that is in a bad area.
He told me no...and I can do nothing because he has been granted custodial parent.

So, as you can see....WOMEN DO NOT ALWAYS WIN. Even those of us who are educated and responsible.

It's these crazy court systems who really win. All in all, it's always the system that wins.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1426338
Canada
06/18/2011 09:12 AM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
Sad case, but not an isolated one.. and as far as the "scarring?... Bitch is going got have a teenager on their hands, and when they do, they will "slit the throat" of the one that "got their daddy killed"..

Unless of course the cunt can "brainwash" the child into believing "daddy was mean, daddy tried to rape you (yada, yada, yada).

Takes two to tango, and the child always loses, but women in the US, are certified sociopathic, with psychotic tendencies, fits of uncontrollable rage, and delusions of grandeur..

The memory of an elephant (for anything that caused emotional distress), the deviousness of a master in the art of torture, pain, and emotional scarring of the opposite sex.. need I go on..

Women are truly "evil", and the courts are co-opted by the split between their legs...

Guy did what he thought was the only thing left to do.. make a statement... fucin bitch!..
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1432945


bsflagwhatever
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1430910
United Kingdom
06/18/2011 09:13 AM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
hahaahahaha brilliant , fucking stupid greedy yank ..
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1136686
Canada
06/18/2011 09:13 AM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
Hummm, I think manning up and getting a job would have been slightly less painfull.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1433223


Especially since it was only 2-3 grand. Jeez.. I've been unemployed with 15k in credit card/line of credit debt + plus a huge tax bill looming (although I hadn't filed since I did not have the funds to pay...) It's hard to see a way out when you're in that deep but there is usually always a way.

Or maybe he was just sick of life and the system and wanted to stick it to the bitch.
Anonymous Coward
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06/18/2011 09:13 AM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
What a jackass. Not only could this loser not provide for his child, but he decided it would be a good idea to leave the kid with a huge psychological trauma as well.
 Quoting: Evil_Twin


One day your turn will come, how will you handle it ohh brave one hmmmmmmmm.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1343636


I won't take the lazy, selfish, and cowardly way out like that jackass did.
 Quoting: Evil_Twin


bump you are still responsible for your kids even if you don't love the mother. They were brought to this earth because of you ...man up! or learn how to use condoms !
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1212709
Canada
06/18/2011 09:15 AM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
This is an incredibly sad and disturbing story. However, the father was selfish and unloving.

Why do I say that? Because he just destroyed the lives of his own children, and they were innocent and had nothing to do with it.

Imagine that little girl has to grow up and live with the knowledge that because she acted up before bed one night, her daddy burned himself alive. She will probably feel incredible guilt over this for her entire life.

It will be a miracle if she comes out of this normal, same goes for the rest of the children.

If he truly loved his children, and was putting them first, he never would have done what he did.

Suicide is never the answer. In fact, it's an act of pure selfishness most of the time because the person only wants to end their own problems, not caring about the tragic mess they are leaving behind for their loved ones, especially children.

Pitiful.
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


Totally agree. They guy was a total idiot. Anyone that commits suicide is. Most selfish act in the world, I have zero sympathy for anyone that does it, never feel sorry for them. They're just pieces of shit in my book, especially if they have kids. Fuck that loser dickhead, if that's his attitude the world's better off. A real man would just take care of his responsibilities.

And the wife doesn't always win, that's just what you hear from crybaby deadbeat husbands. I won custody from my shitbag ex-wife.
Anonymous Coward
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06/18/2011 09:15 AM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
That's what happens when the fucking divorce laws aren't reformed and the women ALWAYS FUCKING WIN. ALWAYS. ALWAYS.

I've never seen a case where the wife lost. Never. Doesn't matter if the wife have a $200k a year job and the father is unemployed. The wife wins. Every time.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1433063


Really? I lost. I am a middle class mother with a Masters Degree in Marketing. My ex and I split and he took our kid to a small town he grew up in 100 miles from the major city I live in. I filed for custody here in the major city, but felt that it was my obligation to notify him that I had done so. He and his mother rushed to file their own custody case in the small town. The small town deputized his mother so she could drive 100miles back to me and personally "serve" me the papers. (all this time my major city was still processing my paperwork) Because my ex served me first, the court case had to be held in this small town. This small town doesnt like big city folk, and in the court hearing we both got joint cutody BUT********* he was awarded "custodial parent" (even though his income is barely over poverty level and he and his girlfriend are on wellfare) AND*******GUESS WHAT?? I was awarded to pay child support to him every month, with only visitation rights to my daughter.

This was 4 years ago. I have recently taken him back to court to get half the time with my daughter(because that is what joint custody is suppose to be about...not this stupid visitation crap of only once every other weekend) and so, it is more equal now-but I still pay him...AND he and his girlfriend now have two kids of their own, still on foodstamps and medicaid..living in a really bad part of the city, and my daughter suffers.

I have an older daughter who is starting middle school this year (not from this relationship) and I am putting her in a private school. I begged my ex to please let me put my other daughter in a private school too, because she currently attends a highly over-populated city district school that is in a bad area.
He told me no...and I can do nothing because he has been granted custodial parent.

So, as you can see....WOMEN DO NOT ALWAYS WIN. Even those of us who are educated and responsible.

It's these crazy court systems who really win. All in all, it's always the system that wins.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1314480




yes we could go on all day with a battle of the sexes, but its really the power of a few men ruling over the masses we should be concerned about.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1429792
United States
06/18/2011 09:16 AM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
This is an incredibly sad and disturbing story. However, the father was selfish and unloving.

Why do I say that? Because he just destroyed the lives of his own children, and they were innocent and had nothing to do with it.

Imagine that little girl has to grow up and live with the knowledge that because she acted up before bed one night, her daddy burned himself alive. She will probably feel incredible guilt over this for her entire life.

It will be a miracle if she comes out of this normal, same goes for the rest of the children.

If he truly loved his children, and was putting them first, he never would have done what he did.

Suicide is never the answer. In fact, it's an act of pure selfishness most of the time because the person only wants to end their own problems, not caring about the tragic mess they are leaving behind for their loved ones, especially children.

Pitiful.
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


Totally agree. They guy was a total idiot. Anyone that commits suicide is. Most selfish act in the world, I have zero sympathy for anyone that does it, never feel sorry for them. They're just pieces of shit in my book, especially if they have kids. Fuck that loser dickhead, if that's his attitude the world's better off. A real man would just take care of his responsibilities.

And the wife doesn't always win, that's just what you hear from crybaby deadbeat husbands. I won custody from my shitbag ex-wife.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1212709


Dig him up and kill him again then

fucktard
Anonymous Coward
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United Kingdom
06/18/2011 09:19 AM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
She should be put on trial for manslaughter, fucking whore.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 590644
United States
06/18/2011 09:20 AM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
Just want to point out that there were three children, two girls and one boy.

He did get visitation regular with his son, and was petitioning for visitation of his two daughters.

I predict the son becomes the most traumatized.
Epic Beard Guy
Constitutional Crusader

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06/18/2011 09:21 AM

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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
That's what happens when the fucking divorce laws aren't reformed and the women ALWAYS FUCKING WIN. ALWAYS. ALWAYS.

I've never seen a case where the wife lost. Never. Doesn't matter if the wife have a $200k a year job and the father is unemployed. The wife wins. Every time.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1433063


When I was divorced, my ex and I agreed on a fair settlement. Later she changed her mind and drug me back to court to get more money. I went with a really good aggressive lawyer. The judge called the attorneys into his chambers before we went in. Ten minutes later he called for my ex. I was sure that was bad. After another ten minutes, she walked out crying, with the lawyers close behind. The judge ripped her and her attorney for bringing a frivolous suit with no basis for rewriting the agreement. The wife does not win every time. Sometimes justice prevails.
Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst.
"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe
Anonymous Coward
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United Kingdom
06/18/2011 09:25 AM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
That's what happens when the fucking divorce laws aren't reformed and the women ALWAYS FUCKING WIN. ALWAYS. ALWAYS.

I've never seen a case where the wife lost. Never. Doesn't matter if the wife have a $200k a year job and the father is unemployed. The wife wins. Every time.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1433063


When I was divorced, my ex and I agreed on a fair settlement. Later she changed her mind and drug me back to court to get more money. I went with a really good aggressive lawyer. The judge called the attorneys into his chambers before we went in. Ten minutes later he called for my ex. I was sure that was bad. After another ten minutes, she walked out crying, with the lawyers close behind. The judge ripped her and her attorney for bringing a frivolous suit with no basis for rewriting the agreement. The wife does not win every time. Sometimes justice prevails.
 Quoting: Epic Beard Guy


Fucking well done mate, bravo.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 590644
United States
06/18/2011 09:31 AM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
New Hampshire state motto: "Live Free or Die"

Thomas James Ball was a descendent of a man who served in the revolutionary war under General Stark who said those words in his old age.

The Ball family has been supplying sergeants to the Army since at least the Revolutionary War. Elijah served as a sergeant in Cushing's Regiment at the Battle of Bennington. His commanding officer was a general from NH with a name of John Stark. General Start was a clever warrior. He was responsible for the bulk of the heavy casualties the British suffer at their victory at Bunker Hill. His orderly, fighting withdrawal allowed the other units on the hill to not only retreat but collect their wounded on the way out.

General Stark would repeat this performance on three hilltops outside the village of Bennington VT one hot August day in 1777. At the end of the battle, the British lost over 900 men killed or captured. The Colonists suffered 30 dead. Two months later, the depleted British army would surrender at Saratoga. That victory at Saratoga would bring the French into the war. John Stark was the most competent general this country ever produced. For that reason alone his men loved him.

But as brilliant as he was on the battlefield, General Stark would become even more famous for something he said. In 1809 the veterans of Bennington decided to have one last reunion. A delegation called on the General with his invitation. But the General was old and frail. He could not attend. But he did send a message, "You tell the boys I said live free or die. That death is not the worst of evil." Since 1945 the State of New Hampshire has stamped Live Free or Die on every pen, coffee mug, license plate and highway sign that they have gotten their hands on.
 Quoting: Thomas James Ball


The Thomas James Ball statement includes this: "Some where along the line I picked up the crazy notion that it is better to be dead as a free man than to live as a serf. The government needs to be a little more careful about what they teach in our schools."

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