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WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!

 
mistersplinter

User ID: 1074750
United States
06/18/2011 10:38 AM

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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
all this and not even a mention of "the second set of books"

did anyone even read the letter?
 Quoting: mistersplinter


I read it carefully. Your point is correct.

A good portion of this story should be about how administrative procedures and "public policy" have become more important than the actual written (by legislators) law.

Not that legislators are perfect either...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 590644


ok, thanks

thought I had slipped into a bitch-fight time warp or something there for a second.

If you pull his personal life out of this story, he raises some very, VERY important issues that are just getting glossed over in this Weiner-esque (never thought I'd say that) fluff bitching.
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." -- Albert Einstein
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1051284
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06/18/2011 10:42 AM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
Find out how to deal with these Judicial criminals before you are face to face with them. There are ways.

Thinkfree, Canada
[link to www.thinkfree.ca]

Go to World Freeman Society > Forum >
Join > Post your problem > Get advice.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1388144
United States
06/18/2011 10:47 AM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
This is an incredibly sad and disturbing story. However, the father was selfish and unloving.

Why do I say that? Because he just destroyed the lives of his own children, and they were innocent and had nothing to do with it.

Imagine that little girl has to grow up and live with the knowledge that because she acted up before bed one night, her daddy burned himself alive. She will probably feel incredible guilt over this for her entire life.

It will be a miracle if she comes out of this normal, same goes for the rest of the children.

If he truly loved his children, and was putting them first, he never would have done what he did.

Suicide is never the answer. In fact, it's an act of pure selfishness most of the time because the person only wants to end their own problems, not caring about the tragic mess they are leaving behind for their loved ones, especially children.

Pitiful.
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


ITA.

it was a very weak choice, and his final bad choice.

ps- my ex owes me much more than that. i don't want to hurt him and i don't want to cause any problems with the relationship between our child & him, so i allow the debt to continue. i'm not alone... many women do this. so, those who have done it, stop throwing women under the bus.
Anonymous Coward
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06/18/2011 10:56 AM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
This is an incredibly sad and disturbing story. However, the father was selfish and unloving.
Why do I say that? Because he just destroyed the lives of his own children, and they were innocent and had nothing to do with it.

Imagine that little girl has to grow up and live with the knowledge that because she acted up before bed one night, her daddy burned himself alive. She will probably feel incredible guilt over this for her entire life.

It will be a miracle if she comes out of this normal, same goes for the rest of the children.

If he truly loved his children, and was putting them first, he never would have done what he did.

Suicide is never the answer. In fact, it's an act of pure selfishness most of the time because the person only wants to end their own problems, not caring about the tragic mess they are leaving behind for their loved ones, especially children.

Pitiful.
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa




The mother is far from innocent in this.....she is selfish and unloving as well.

Hopefully the children will be taught a lesson from this..their father was making a hugh point on how corrupt the system is and when those children grow up ..we can only hope it won't be far worse.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1420732
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06/18/2011 10:56 AM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
Blow it out your ass. The guy was a deadbeat and an abuser. I'm in the area.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1433036


A woman's point of view here.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 590644
United States
06/18/2011 10:57 AM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
From the wife's legal doc: [link to freekeene.com]

Three children;

Kevin, born June 28, 1999 - nearly 12 years old
Melissa born Nov 25, 1996 - age 14
Sara born Nov 19, 1993 - age 17
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 642770
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06/18/2011 10:58 AM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
Judging from the comments there is no way most here read the entire long letter, there is no way you could have missed this powerful story.

Rest in peace Mr.Ball , thank you for your 23 years of military service, thank you for honorably fighting the beast system, sorry you gave up, may God protect your 3 children.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1388144
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06/18/2011 10:58 AM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
This is an incredibly sad and disturbing story. However, the father was selfish and unloving.
Why do I say that? Because he just destroyed the lives of his own children, and they were innocent and had nothing to do with it.

Imagine that little girl has to grow up and live with the knowledge that because she acted up before bed one night, her daddy burned himself alive. She will probably feel incredible guilt over this for her entire life.

It will be a miracle if she comes out of this normal, same goes for the rest of the children.

If he truly loved his children, and was putting them first, he never would have done what he did.

Suicide is never the answer. In fact, it's an act of pure selfishness most of the time because the person only wants to end their own problems, not caring about the tragic mess they are leaving behind for their loved ones, especially children.

Pitiful.
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa




The mother is far from innocent in this.....she is selfish and unloving as well.

Hopefully the children will be taught a lesson from this..their father was making a hugh point on how corrupt the system is and when those children grow up ..we can only hope it won't be far worse.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1432304


would he catch himself on fire & kill himself if he owed that debt to a bookie or to visa? a debt is a debt. why do men think that child support payments are negotiable?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1180573
United States
06/18/2011 11:01 AM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
Child support laws are about 50 years behind on the times. They essentially put ALL the responcibilty on the man to provide for the family. This impoverishes the man and benefits the woman who ends up using most of the money to play with. It cause men to not want to marry, not want to have children.

We no longer live in a fully male dominated society so therefore the laws should reflect that.

If your splitting up custody 50/50 then you should pay for your children 50% of the time.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 886592




All woman are fucking demons, this is why I will never marry one. They get all the advantages from government always, and they know it and abuse it...
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 590644
United States
06/18/2011 11:04 AM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
all this and not even a mention of "the second set of books"

did anyone even read the letter?
 Quoting: mistersplinter


I read it carefully. Your point is correct.

A good portion of this story should be about how administrative procedures and "public policy" have become more important than the actual written (by legislators) law.

Not that legislators are perfect either...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 590644


ok, thanks

thought I had slipped into a bitch-fight time warp or something there for a second.

If you pull his personal life out of this story, he raises some very, VERY important issues that are just getting glossed over in this Weiner-esque (never thought I'd say that) fluff bitching.
 Quoting: mistersplinter


Another note of interest might be to point out how bureaucrats and private subcontractors to the bureaucrats always try to slip away from any responsibility for the decisions they force on the public.

Individuals are responsible, but institutions are not?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 590644
United States
06/18/2011 11:07 AM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
an old friend of mine in the same situation just jumped off of a high rise he was 52
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1131479


TOO BAD THIS WAS AT THE BOTTOM OF PAGE 3 - SO I AM BUMPING YOUR POST

How many suicides are related to governmental tyranny?

Not just CPS but IRS also are the two biggest. How many other organs should be included?
mistersplinter

User ID: 1074750
United States
06/18/2011 11:14 AM

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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
all this and not even a mention of "the second set of books"

did anyone even read the letter?
 Quoting: mistersplinter


I read it carefully. Your point is correct.

A good portion of this story should be about how administrative procedures and "public policy" have become more important than the actual written (by legislators) law.

Not that legislators are perfect either...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 590644


ok, thanks

thought I had slipped into a bitch-fight time warp or something there for a second.

If you pull his personal life out of this story, he raises some very, VERY important issues that are just getting glossed over in this Weiner-esque (never thought I'd say that) fluff bitching.
 Quoting: mistersplinter


Another note of interest might be to point out how bureaucrats and private subcontractors to the bureaucrats always try to slip away from any responsibility for the decisions they force on the public.

Individuals are responsible, but institutions are not?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 590644


exactly... they can pass the buck for years, whilst you and yours are living in the car by the river. You, however, cannot.
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." -- Albert Einstein
NotReallyHuman_
User ID: 1410736
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06/18/2011 11:26 AM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
..tragic and sad.

Everything is broken, it is obvious and the debt is beyond all possibility of being serviced. Everyone knows this.

Here in this country, the gov't is committing treason against the people on a daily basis by opting out of building the country and its people, and has, instead decided to attack all others in some syphilitic fit of delusion. I feel that it is hopeless for all, even though most cant see it. How can independent debt be serviced?

Capitalism has come to an end, this must be realized. I no longer feel safe for any reason, I feel like I am in the entrance of hell watching others struggle to try to see in the dark and realize the same...

There will be more of this, there will be horrible things and there is nothing that can or will be done about it except the most horrible things that people can do to each other....are you ready?
Boyd Crowder
User ID: 1387246
United States
06/18/2011 11:39 AM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
In 2009, James Ball lost his job and was unable to continue making child support payments. His ex-wife, Karen Ball, filed for a hearing on contempt of court, which the court scheduled for 6/24/2011. She alleges that Thomas owes thousands in back child support and attorney’s fees and demands the court sentence him to jail until he can pay the amounts demanded.

James Ball burned himself to death on June 16, 2011 using a large amount of gasoline in front of the Keene, New Hampshire court house. Thomas Ball in a "suicide letter" stated he believed he would end up in jail, saying:

I am due in court the end of the month. The ex-wife lawyer wants me jailed for back child support. The amount ranges from $2,200. to $3,000. depending on who you ask. Not big money after being separated over ten years and unemployed for the last two. But I do owe it. If I show up for court without the money and the lawyer say jail, then the judge will have the bailiff take me into custody. There really are no surprises on how the system works once you know how it actually works. And it does not work anything like they taught you in high school history or civics class.
[link to freekeene.com]


THAT'S AMERICA...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1433063



Coward! I can assure you if this mother fucker owed back child support he had ample time to pay it! AMPLE! Furthermore, he could have made arrangements with the court.
If he was being drug into court he was shirking his duty as a father. It rarely gets to court or jail unless the SOB was just a dead beat dad.

He is part of the problem with America. Men unwilling to support kids. Regardless of how big a bitch whore the ex-wife is---you breed 'em, you feed 'em.

Good riddance to a waste of DNA. Burn baby, burn! Fucking coward.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 747095
United States
06/18/2011 11:45 AM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
The largest corporation on earth, USA, Inc, the "government" grinds on. It is all good for their business, and their "second set of books", the comprehensive annual financial reports show it.

[link to cafr1.com]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1070863
United States
06/18/2011 11:45 AM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
Mentally unstable

Thats why he was divorced
Thats why he was unemployed
Thats why he lit himself on fire
Thats why he committed suicide.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1292314
United States
06/18/2011 11:49 AM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
What a jackass. Not only could this loser not provide for his child, but he decided it would be a good idea to leave the kid with a huge psychological trauma as well.
 Quoting: Evil_Twin


This!!!!!!!!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1433229
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06/18/2011 11:49 AM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
Mentally unstable

Thats why he was divorced
Thats why he was unemployed
Thats why he lit himself on fire
Thats why he committed suicide.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1070863


It's easy to say mentally unstable, but you must ask WHY he was mentally unstable. I trust that you have never been under the type of stress that this man went through. Well I have, and trust me you can imagine doing some crazy stuff.
NotReallyHuman_
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06/18/2011 11:50 AM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
Mentally unstable

Thats why he was divorced
Thats why he was unemployed
Thats why he lit himself on fire
Thats why he committed suicide.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1070863


So cocksure in your own being right, eh?
Boyd Crowder
User ID: 1387246
United States
06/18/2011 11:51 AM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
Mentally unstable

Thats why he was divorced
Thats why he was unemployed
Thats why he lit himself on fire
Thats why he committed suicide.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1070863


Word...

I spent 10 years as a paramedic. I reached my breaking point in my job. Too many dead children, killed because of stupidity and neglect. I had a hard time with it. But I didn't give up on life and I took care of my family!

I changed careers. I started a business. I moved on.

You can train for a hundred different viable vocations in 18-24 months. And there are still jobs out there, I know times are tough. I'm not heartless to the unemployed.

However, these lazy SOBs that are two years out of work are just milking it and that's a fact. There are very few circumstances whereby a person in the USA should be unemployed for greater than twelve months.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 287857
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06/18/2011 11:53 AM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
After reading the story, his last statement, and the comments on here; all I can say is the family unit has been totally disseminated. I am appalled at the hate that is coming out of this thread.
 Quoting: arosebyanyothername


New Hampshire state motto: "Live Free or Die"

Thomas James Ball was a descendent of a man who served in the revolutionary war under General Stark who said those words in his old age.

The Ball family has been supplying sergeants to the Army since at least the Revolutionary War. Elijah served as a sergeant in Cushing's Regiment at the Battle of Bennington. His commanding officer was a general from NH with a name of John Stark. General Start was a clever warrior. He was responsible for the bulk of the heavy casualties the British suffer at their victory at Bunker Hill. His orderly, fighting withdrawal allowed the other units on the hill to not only retreat but collect their wounded on the way out.

General Stark would repeat this performance on three hilltops outside the village of Bennington VT one hot August day in 1777. At the end of the battle, the British lost over 900 men killed or captured. The Colonists suffered 30 dead. Two months later, the depleted British army would surrender at Saratoga. That victory at Saratoga would bring the French into the war. John Stark was the most competent general this country ever produced. For that reason alone his men loved him.

But as brilliant as he was on the battlefield, General Stark would become even more famous for something he said. In 1809 the veterans of Bennington decided to have one last reunion. A delegation called on the General with his invitation. But the General was old and frail. He could not attend. But he did send a message, "You tell the boys I said live free or die. That death is not the worst of evil." Since 1945 the State of New Hampshire has stamped Live Free or Die on every pen, coffee mug, license plate and highway sign that they have gotten their hands on.
 Quoting: Thomas James Ball


The Thomas James Ball statement includes this: "Some where along the line I picked up the crazy notion that it is better to be dead as a free man than to live as a serf. The government needs to be a little more careful about what they teach in our schools."
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 590644


Do not be played by the corrupt system


It plays all against one another, families against families-to disrupt the family unit-to implement their sick and twisted plan

Most are already sterile


they will bemoan and denigrate mothers and fathers, and soon enough more will kill themselves or turn away when others are being killed


the proof is in the pudding

Indicting many of their true character


The whole thing is planned and that is what is so insidious-few understand the way it is set up


so many being played like marionettes and hardly any notice what is underfoot-they may blame the woman or the man, but they ought to look to the "...powers and principalities..." as they are the vipers who writhe in delight when one loses their life or their inner health-they writhe in delight, as it lowers the numbers of the people-who will one day STAND


and tptb/tptw will pull out all the stops


it IS hammer time

and the sickle will sweep


Black Horse rides


nanny world CONtrollers snide

they think they have it all smoothed out, a glide

into the abyss they bring many,

soon to follow their victims, a fast slide


Into the abyss they go

Into the abyss they will go


Into the abyss they will stay

Seeking death from the birth day


they shall be consumed
Boyd Crowder
User ID: 1387246
United States
06/18/2011 11:54 AM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
Mentally unstable

Thats why he was divorced
Thats why he was unemployed
Thats why he lit himself on fire
Thats why he committed suicide.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1070863


It's easy to say mentally unstable, but you must ask WHY he was mentally unstable. I trust that you have never been under the type of stress that this man went through. Well I have, and trust me you can imagine doing some crazy stuff.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1433229



Oh bullshit. I treated a dying five year old. He cried for his mother in my arms. He died from catastrophic injuries in a MVC. I had to care for his father who was still alive and in horrible turmoil.

I worked four more years in my chosen career and dealt with it. This guy was a wackadoodle. A weak link in our species.
Mercurius
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06/18/2011 11:55 AM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
This is an incredibly sad and disturbing story. However, the father was selfish and unloving.
Why do I say that? Because he just destroyed the lives of his own children, and they were innocent and had nothing to do with it.

Imagine that little girl has to grow up and live with the knowledge that because she acted up before bed one night, her daddy burned himself alive. She will probably feel incredible guilt over this for her entire life.

It will be a miracle if she comes out of this normal, same goes for the rest of the children.

If he truly loved his children, and was putting them first, he never would have done what he did.

Suicide is never the answer. In fact, it's an act of pure selfishness most of the time because the person only wants to end their own problems, not caring about the tragic mess they are leaving behind for their loved ones, especially children.

Pitiful.
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa




The mother is far from innocent in this.....she is selfish and unloving as well.

Hopefully the children will be taught a lesson from this..their father was making a hugh point on how corrupt the system is and when those children grow up ..we can only hope it won't be far worse.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1432304


would he catch himself on fire & kill himself if he owed that debt to a bookie or to visa? a debt is a debt. why do men think that child support payments are negotiable?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1388144


Where do you think he was going to get the money? He could
have stolen it, but otherwise in this economy they aren't
handing out jobs. His ex-wife got what she deserved, trying
to take money from someone who didn't have it and couldn't
get it.

BTW-If you owe VISA you don't go to jail, worst case you
declare bankruptcy.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1005330
Canada
06/18/2011 11:56 AM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
Mentally unstable

Thats why he was divorced
Thats why he was unemployed
Thats why he lit himself on fire
Thats why he committed suicide.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1070863


What a judgmental heartless douchebag, typical psychopath. Should had been you instead of him.

granny
Anonymous Coward
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United States
06/18/2011 11:58 AM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
Great Post. Naturally not a single word from the so-called news. Americans now burning themselves to death in protest!

Christ!
mistersplinter

User ID: 1074750
United States
06/18/2011 11:59 AM

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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
Mentally unstable

Thats why he was divorced
Thats why he was unemployed
Thats why he lit himself on fire
Thats why he committed suicide.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1070863


Word...

I spent 10 years as a paramedic. I reached my breaking point in my job. Too many dead children, killed because of stupidity and neglect. I had a hard time with it. But I didn't give up on life and I took care of my family!

I changed careers. I started a business. I moved on.

You can train for a hundred different viable vocations in 18-24 months. And there are still jobs out there, I know times are tough. I'm not heartless to the unemployed.

However, these lazy SOBs that are two years out of work are just milking it and that's a fact. There are very few circumstances whereby a person in the USA should be unemployed for greater than twelve months.
 Quoting: Boyd Crowder 1387246


Thanks for coming down from on high with this nugget o' wisdom. We all feel much better now.

The Lord of Judgement has spoken -- you lazy SOBs go train for something viable.

sheesh
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." -- Albert Einstein
Anonymous Coward
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06/18/2011 12:02 PM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
self immolation. I'm starting to think it's the only way to get any attention in this crazy a** police state.
mistersplinter

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06/18/2011 12:03 PM

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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
Mentally unstable

Thats why he was divorced
Thats why he was unemployed
Thats why he lit himself on fire
Thats why he committed suicide.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1070863


Word...

I spent 10 years as a paramedic. I reached my breaking point in my job. Too many dead children, killed because of stupidity and neglect. I had a hard time with it. But I didn't give up on life and I took care of my family!

I changed careers. I started a business. I moved on.

You can train for a hundred different viable vocations in 18-24 months. And there are still jobs out there, I know times are tough. I'm not heartless to the unemployed.

However, these lazy SOBs that are two years out of work are just milking it and that's a fact. There are very few circumstances whereby a person in the USA should be unemployed for greater than twelve months.
 Quoting: Boyd Crowder 1387246


Thanks for coming down from on high with this nugget o' wisdom. We all feel much better now.

The Lord of Judgement has spoken -- you lazy SOBs go train for something viable.

sheesh
 Quoting: mistersplinter


damn I apologize Mr. Crowder.

Got caught up in the meaningless bitching.

Point is, there is more important stuffs in the letter to soak in.

My bad, Mr. Crowder
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." -- Albert Einstein
Anonymous Coward
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Canada
06/18/2011 12:07 PM
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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
Guy was obv frustrated but he also obv had more balls and committment than most Americans.

Not going to say I condone the act - a child could have been watching it occur and be scarred for life over it - but I'm not going to say I don't understand it either. I do.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1421992


That's not having "balls", that's self-hatred. Having balls would have been to confront the fuckers, against all odds, even to his own death.
BRIEF

User ID: 1403719
United States
06/18/2011 12:08 PM

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Re: WTF!!!!! Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison!!!
That's what happens when the fucking divorce laws aren't reformed and the women ALWAYS FUCKING WIN. ALWAYS. ALWAYS.

I've never seen a case where the wife lost. Never. Doesn't matter if the wife have a $200k a year job and the father is unemployed. The wife wins. Every time.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1433063


That's usually right, but I took custody of my three kids and therefore no child support paid to her, I actually support the kids. For a short time I had to pay spouse maintenance until I figured out how to get out of that...legally...
I never forgive and I never forget

I am a licensed firearm holder. I will, under protection of law, use lethal force if attacked.

Briefcut4892





GLP