Thread to discuss CURRENT events at Fukushima Nr. 2

A contrary opinion. Lets keeep this thread flowing!
[link to www.scientificamerican.com]

The shit is fucked. Russia had hundreds of thousands of people working on Chernobyl. This is going to end very badly for the japanese and most of the west coast of the United States.



Are the industry shills allowed in this thread??

The Yomiuri Giants and Yakult Swallows are scheduled to play a pair of games in Fukushima at the end of this month and one more in late July. With the crisis at the Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant far from being resolved, some players are leery of making the trip.

"I understand that we want to do what we can for the people (in Tohoku) and lift their spirits, and whatever we can do to help is great," said Swallows first baseman Josh Whitesell, 29. "In the same sense, on a personal safety level, it is recognized as the most devastating nuclear disaster in the history of our world. I just want to make sure that me and my family are safe."

[link to www.asahi.com]

This is a great example. I have spoken to several obstetricians and they are basically playing the waiting game. They have already seen some signs that Fukushima's radiation is affection unborn children.

TEPCO put in plans to abandon the plant. Does anyone know when that is happening??

[link to cryptome.org]

If you have not seen these, please take the time to look. A picture is worth a thousand words!

At the very beginning (about fours after the tsunami), TEPCO wanted to get out, and leave it to the government because, I am surmising, they understood the ramifications of the cataclysm.

In this special documentary, NHK interviewed more than 200 people including government and TEPCO officials, experts, and engineers.

While reluctant, they agreed to speak with NHK. Some of the rather candid comments confirm that TEPCO, nor the Japanese government where adequately prepared for a disaster of this magnitude. The Economy, Trade, and Industry Minister, Banri Kaieda even made a rather damning remark (around the 4m30s mark in clip 1-A) that he could not deny there was a myth of safety regarding the nuclear power plants and that probably somewhere in their minds, they always felt that measures against emergency situations were unnecessary because such situations would never occur. This 1 hour video is split into 4 parts and hosted on Dailymotion (so you'll need to put up with the advertisements automatically displayed) since it is blocked on YouTube.
[link to www.nippon-sekai.com]

Videos are at link

I've been reading and posting on GLP for around 15 years. This was one of the best threads on GLP, and at the same time one of worst threads on GLP. 1.

One of the worst because of the little clique of people who formed, who would really only like to talk among themselves, who would view anyone else with suspicion. And then on top of that an incredibly thin skinned moderator and his group that would take great delight in 'baneing' people for the slightest percieved offense. 2.

This tread probably became one of the most least welcoming thread since the 'chatbrat' era at GLP. The 'chatbrat' era of GLP and it's aftermath was one of the most tumultuous periods on GLP. The 'chatbrats' at GLP consisted of the previous owner of this site and his group of moderators. They provided alot of good information, but mainly wanted to talk among themselves, were thin skinned and paranoid about those not in the 'chatbrat group'. 3.

Then Trinity bought the forum, that was about 8 years ago. And in a dramatic move, Trinity banned the 'chatbrats' who only wanted to talk among themselves. It was hugely controversial, the 'chatbrats' were dispersed to other forums, or started their own websites, none of which ever came close to GLP. And GLP ceased to be run by the 'chatbrats', and this site ultimately became more open and freewheeling, bigger and better than ever.

I really hope atom-boy doesn't go down the same road as Rockhuff et al. I doubt he would, because it's a rare personality type who wants to be controlling on an open forum like that. 4.

And now Rockhuff wants to delete the whole thread as some kind of revenge against his thin-skinnedness. I guess it wasn't about disseminating information, it was about talking among your clique of friends. GLP will move beyond the Fukushima chatbrats just like we moved beyond the chatbrats of old. 5.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1437848


1. Your experience here is to be respected and venerated. You've clearly seen and read a whooole lot of GLP, and know the joint well. I can't speak for everyone, but I'll respond.

2. It took an enormous leap of trust, need, and friendship to get the "core" of this group of posters together. Over dozens and dozens of threads, we did our best to understand, share, and dispel the crazy from the discussions so we could get to the facts, the places where TEPCO and NIST, and the Japanese Agencies were posting the data. It got so difficult to keep up with the facts amongst the chatter and the death of good threads that Rock started this one, as a QUIET POOL OF COLLECTIVE INFORMATION SIFTING. An eddy away from those too panicked to deal rationally with the data.

A few PMs shared, and we set this place up. We wrote the Mods requesting this thread never be pinned so it could disappear regularly from the front page. It was quiet for hundreds of pages. We took our findings to other threads, only to find dozens of crazy conspiracies developing-- from TEPCO creating the Heavy, Seasonal Coastal Fog (which we lovingly nicknamed Fogium), to TEPCO using the 'fogium' to do any manner of nefarious deeds, and on, and on. You very well know the delicate natures of some of our fellow GLPers, and ZAM! To try to deliver the factual, empirically-deduced TRUTH at ANY thread, was to be called a shill, or worse... And now, those Zombies are besieging this thread with the craziest attacks and nonsensical "theories." Banes and Bans became necessary to defend against AC thread stalkers.

Rock started this thread for CALM DISCUSSION. He got seriously ill for a month, and we had to do what we needed to do to keep this thread in accordance to Rock's wishes, and to lesson the amount of crap he'd have to excise upon his return. Call it "thick-skinned" if you'd like, but we were circling the wagons for the respected OP, and doing our all on his behalf.

As to the insider chat-- that is the result of our tight collaboration digging for the data, and realizing how dire the situation is. This was seminal to our clicking as trusted friends: [link to www.osti.gov]

We realized, early on, that the meltdowns happened right on schedule:

FUKReactorCutAwa

MeltDownTimeTabl

Once TEPCO and Japan blinked, and started failing, we garnered our certain type of gallows humor. As the early Press Meetings happened in Real Time, we realized their strategy for what it was-- a Hail Mary Pass, with a 'Feed and Bleed' Punt, always reacting too late to "sudden emergencies" that were obvious days ago-- weeks ago-- they STILL don't have sufficient de-watering storage, and they are a week from over-spilling everything into the Pacific Ocean. So, their "Japlan" was worthy of ridicule because we understood the facts as well as they do. Thus, our "special" brand of gallows humor. It's our informed way of dealing with these levels of horror and failure.

Yes. We disdained of the uninformed cynics, and baned those who insisted that their crazy theory that the FOG is an excuse for TEPCO releasing hideous amounts of radiation to America. That kind of crap isn't even worth discussing here. But we had GLPers use this thread to somehow garner "creds" while fear-mongering "zOMG Explosions and TEPCO is releasing this deadly, radioactive 'FOGIUM' steam that covers 200 square kilometers!!!"

Comes a point, when the goal was to set up a quiet place to discuss this shit, where it's too much to have to battle the Battle Cattle to discuss stuff quietly and calmly.

"No one wants to go there anymore-- it's too crowded." --Yogi Berra

3. To that, I cannot write, as I have no knowledge of that. I've seen several waves of paid shills roll through, and it is pretty obvious when the do. We were just trying to do the right thing, quietly, over here.

4. Atom-Boy has picked up the helm. He's open and beautiful, and honest. He is in Japan. He's Japanese. English is not his first language, and if you've spent as time trying to make sense of Google Translated Japanese to English as I have (conjugation? I can haz subject and predicate in at least a simple accord?), you can only imagine how much it takes for Atom-Boy to be so good to everyone with his solid grasp of English. Those who move there, please give thanks and respect to Atom-Boy. You'll soon understand the desire to keep assholes away.

5. People are using the discerned facts, and out of context free-form discussion in this thread to make money for themselves, and/or to scare the living hell out of the Mentally Ill; against whom we do not discriminate, but wish to protect from those desiring to cause harm.

The intent of this thread, and our vigilance, was for educational purposes only. In context. Once those links start getting used for some third party's profit, it needs to be shut off for the greater good of the GLP Community. Trinity, and his bosses are on the hook for a lot. They don't need this distraction.

So... Time to pull plugs on this particular thread. If I understand the up-thread discussions correctly, the data and information on this thread has been saved to plenty of hard drives. It's not gonna die.

Keep the information flowing, and chase the crazy away. This is far serious enough, the crazy isn't needed to emphasis the point-- regardless of the GLP Masthead Banner.

For your edification, perusal, and understanding.

Thank you for bringing this over. These are Monkeyfister's words but pretty much sum it up for all of us. Thread #1 was good while it lasted, unfortunately, the constant insults, racism, and general whacko's are what did it in. For this I am sorry. It's much better to trade information than cuss words.

Amen! I was so enamoured with the message that I forgot the qoutation marks!

Please respond to the entire post. Please! for the sake of this thread.

"1. Your experience here is to be respected and venerated. You've clearly seen and read a whooole lot of GLP, and know the joint well. I can't speak for everyone, but I'll respond.

2. It took an enormous leap of trust, need, and friendship to get the "core" of this group of posters together. Over dozens and dozens of threads, we did our best to understand, share, and dispel the crazy from the discussions so we could get to the facts, the places where TEPCO and NIST, and the Japanese Agencies were posting the data. It got so difficult to keep up with the facts amongst the chatter and the death of good threads that Rock started this one, as a QUIET POOL OF COLLECTIVE INFORMATION SIFTING. An eddy away from those too panicked to deal rationally with the data.

A few PMs shared, and we set this place up. We wrote the Mods requesting this thread never be pinned so it could disappear regularly from the front page. It was quiet for hundreds of pages. We took our findings to other threads, only to find dozens of crazy conspiracies developing-- from TEPCO creating the Heavy, Seasonal Coastal Fog (which we lovingly nicknamed Fogium), to TEPCO using the 'fogium' to do any manner of nefarious deeds, and on, and on. You very well know the delicate natures of some of our fellow GLPers, and ZAM! To try to deliver the factual, empirically-deduced TRUTH at ANY thread, was to be called a shill, or worse... And now, those Zombies are besieging this thread with the craziest attacks and nonsensical "theories." Banes and Bans became necessary to defend against AC thread stalkers.

Rock started this thread for CALM DISCUSSION. He got seriously ill for a month, and we had to do what we needed to do to keep this thread in accordance to Rock's wishes, and to lesson the amount of crap he'd have to excise upon his return. Call it "thick-skinned" if you'd like, but we were circling the wagons for the respected OP, and doing our all on his behalf.

As to the insider chat-- that is the result of our tight collaboration digging for the data, and realizing how dire the situation is. This was seminal to our clicking as trusted friends: [link to www.osti.gov]

We realized, early on, that the meltdowns happened right on schedule:

FUKReactorCutAwa

MeltDownTimeTabl

Once TEPCO and Japan blinked, and started failing, we garnered our certain type of gallows humor. As the early Press Meetings happened in Real Time, we realized their strategy for what it was-- a Hail Mary Pass, with a 'Feed and Bleed' Punt, always reacting too late to "sudden emergencies" that were obvious days ago-- weeks ago-- they STILL don't have sufficient de-watering storage, and they are a week from over-spilling everything into the Pacific Ocean. So, their "Japlan" was worthy of ridicule because we understood the facts as well as they do. Thus, our "special" brand of gallows humor. It's our informed way of dealing with these levels of horror and failure.

Yes. We disdained of the uninformed cynics, and baned those who insisted that their crazy theory that the FOG is an excuse for TEPCO releasing hideous amounts of radiation to America. That kind of crap isn't even worth discussing here. But we had GLPers use this thread to somehow garner "creds" while fear-mongering "zOMG Explosions and TEPCO is releasing this deadly, radioactive 'FOGIUM' steam that covers 200 square kilometers!!!"

Comes a point, when the goal was to set up a quiet place to discuss this shit, where it's too much to have to battle the Battle Cattle to discuss stuff quietly and calmly.

"No one wants to go there anymore-- it's too crowded." --Yogi Berra

3. To that, I cannot write, as I have no knowledge of that. I've seen several waves of paid shills roll through, and it is pretty obvious when the do. We were just trying to do the right thing, quietly, over here.

4. Atom-Boy has picked up the helm. He's open and beautiful, and honest. He is in Japan. He's Japanese. English is not his first language, and if you've spent as time trying to make sense of Google Translated Japanese to English as I have (conjugation? I can haz subject and predicate in at least a simple accord?), you can only imagine how much it takes for Atom-Boy to be so good to everyone with his solid grasp of English. Those who move there, please give thanks and respect to Atom-Boy. You'll soon understand the desire to keep assholes away.

5. People are using the discerned facts, and out of context free-form discussion in this thread to make money for themselves, and/or to scare the living hell out of the Mentally Ill; against whom we do not discriminate, but wish to protect from those desiring to cause harm.

The intent of this thread, and our vigilance, was for educational purposes only. In context. Once those links start getting used for some third party's profit, it needs to be shut off for the greater good of the GLP Community. Trinity, and his bosses are on the hook for a lot. They don't need this distraction.

So... Time to pull plugs on this particular thread. If I understand the up-thread discussions correctly, the data and information on this thread has been saved to plenty of hard drives. It's not gonna die.

Keep the information flowing, and chase the crazy away. This is far serious enough, the crazy isn't needed to emphasis the point-- regardless of the GLP Masthead Banner."

This is such a heartfelt enterpretation of events. We really should absorb this information and react appropiatly.

"Well over 100,000 tonnes of highly contaminated water at Fukushima I Nuclear Power Plant are estimated to contain 720,000 terabecquerels of radioactive materials.

If Kurion’s vessel absorbed enough radioactive materials in 5 hours and it should have taken 30 days, as I wrote in my previous post, the water was 144 times as radioactive as the system had anticipated.

If the water actually turns out to be 144 times as radioactive, the Fukushima accident would need a new INES category and should not be placed in the same category (Level 7) as the Chernobyl accident which released only 5.6 million terabecquerels of radioactive materials. Maybe it should be simply called “Level Fukushima”."

[link to enenews.com]

My apologies if this has alrady been posted:

"As far as I can tell from the announcements made by Tokyo Electric Power Co. (TEPCO), the nuclear fuel that has melted down inside reactors at the Fukushima nuclear plant has gone through the bottom of the containers, which are like pressure cookers, and is lying on the concrete foundations, sinking into the ground below. We have to install a barrier deep in the soil and build a subterranean dam as soon as possible to prevent groundwater contaminated with radioactive materials from leaking into the ocean."
In this photo taken on Thursday, March 31, 2011 by Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force and released by Japan Defense Ministry Friday, April 1, JMSDF personnel all in protective suits are aboard a tugboat towing a U.S. military barge carrying pure water towards the quay of the tsunami-stricken Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear complex in Okumamachi, Fukushima Prefecture, northeastern Japan. (AP Photo/Japan Defense Ministry)
In this photo taken on Thursday, March 31, 2011 by Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force and released by Japan Defense Ministry Friday, April 1, JMSDF personnel all in protective suits are aboard a tugboat towing a U.S. military barge carrying pure water towards the quay of the tsunami-stricken Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear complex in Okumamachi, Fukushima Prefecture, northeastern Japan. (AP Photo/Japan Defense Ministry)

His comment captured public interest and when I asked a high-ranking government official about it, the official said that construction of an underground dam was indeed being prepared. But when I probed further, I found that the project was in limbo due to opposition from TEPCO.

Sumio Mabuchi, an aide to Prime Minister Naoto Kan who is dealing with nuclear power plant issues, holds the same concerns as those expressed by Koide and has sought an announcement on construction of an underground dam, but TEPCO has resisted such a move.


[link to mdn.mainichi.jp]

[link to mdn.mainichi.jp]

In this photo taken on Thursday, March 31, 2011 by Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force and released by Japan Defense Ministry Friday, April 1, JMSDF personnel all in protective suits are aboard a tugboat towing a U.S. military barge carrying pure water towards the quay of the tsunami-stricken Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear complex in Okumamachi, Fukushima Prefecture, northeastern Japan. (AP Photo/Japan Defense Ministry)

“As far as I can tell from the announcements made by Tokyo Electric Power Co. (TEPCO), the nuclear fuel that has melted down inside reactors at the Fukushima nuclear plant has gone through the bottom of the containers, which are like pressure cookers, and is lying on the concrete foundations, sinking into the ground below. We have to install a barrier deep in the soil and build a subterranean dam as soon as possible to prevent groundwater contaminated with radioactive materials from leaking into the ocean.”

His comment captured public interest and when I asked a high-ranking government official about it, the official said that construction of an underground dam was indeed being prepared. But when I probed further, I found that the project was in limbo due to opposition from TEPCO.

[link to www.infiniteunknown.net]

Come on Waterbug, stop sulking! "sympathy for the devil"

Waterbug is not on right now.

Your intellect, insight, and prescience caused Fukushima thread 1 to evolve.

Lets try a second thread

Is he OK?

I'm sure he is fine. Just not on right now.

thank you

has anybody here tasted "Johnney Walker""Blue Label"?

You're Welcome. I'm really not the bitch that some people believe I am, unless provoked.