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*** Fukushima *** and other nuclear-----updates and links

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 721982
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06/27/2011 12:14 AM
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Re: *** Fukushima *** and other nuclear-----updates and links
They do seem to be working against a bad mix of issues. Seems way to familiar to Fuku for me.
 Quoting: Southern OR


Except in Fuku..the waters receded..our inland tsunami isnt
Southern OR

User ID: 1167877
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06/27/2011 12:17 AM

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Re: *** Fukushima *** and other nuclear-----updates and links
They do seem to be working against a bad mix of issues. Seems way to familiar to Fuku for me.
 Quoting: Southern OR


Except in Fuku..the waters receded..our inland tsunami isnt
 Quoting: RememberThis


True. I certainly hope our US reactors are better equipped to handle this.
"Well-behaved women seldom make history." —Laurel Thatcher Ulrich

I am only one, but I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can do something. And I will not let what I cannot do interfere with what I can do. ~Edward Everett Hale
Anonymous Coward
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06/27/2011 12:20 AM
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Re: *** Fukushima *** and other nuclear-----updates and links
Just thinking out loud....

Ft Calhoun's reactor is a Pressurized Water Reactor (PWR). It requires the super-heated coolant (light water) to be pressurized at crazy-high pressures to remain liquid as it flows through the coolant channels within the core of the reactor.

If power is lost to the plant (station blackout), pressure in the closed-coolant system will fall... and the super-heated coolant will immediately boil. and turn to steam. We all know what happens when steam rapidly forms in a sealed environment.

thoughts?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1379944


The reactor is shut down at calhoun. They must maintain cooling to the reactor and the SFP. Without knowing the layout it's hard to say what the situation is. A loss of coolant event would be worse case scenario. Meltdown? I have a lot more faith in american mitigation than I do Tepco.

It's on backup now. Hopefully they can restore full hard line power soon. I also hope they have enough fuel. At fuku they lost the fuel to the tsunami.

At Fuku the SFP is at a high level adjacent to the top of the reactor. If the SFP at calhoun is flooded I expect some contamination to occur.
 Quoting: Waterbug


Well that's a good point.

Anyone know how water is circulated in a shutdown PWR type system to keep a shutdown nuclear core cool? Does it still require the pressurized system or not?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1379944


Good question...what it all "boils" down to (excuse the pun) is that power must be maintained to keep any and all rods cool.
 Quoting: RememberThis


...btw, this is crad. lol
Waterbug (OP)

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06/27/2011 12:21 AM

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Re: *** Fukushima *** and other nuclear-----updates and links
For the record: Ft Calhoun

-■Virtually every article about the flooding mentions that the Fort Calhoun plant was shut down on April 9. On May 27, the Omaha World-Herald reported, "The Omaha Public Power District said its nuclear plant at Fort Calhoun, which is shut down for maintenance, is safe from flooding." The implication is that being shut down makes a plant safe. But as the ongoing crisis in Fukushima demonstrates, nuclear fuel remains hot long after a reactor is shut down. When Fort Calhoun is shut down for maintenance and refueling, only one-third of the fuel in the reactor core is removed. Besides the hot fuel remaining in the core, there is even more fuel stored in the spent-fuel pool, which is not shut down. According to a May 2011 report PDF by Robert Alvarez at the Institute for Policy Studies, there are an estimated 1,054 assemblies of spent fuel, weighing 379 tons, at Fort Calhoun. The oldest of these assemblies are in dry-cask storage, which does not require any water or electricity for cooling. Like the dry casks at Fukushima, which survived the tsunami unscathed, the Fort Calhoun casks do not appear to be in any danger from flooding.

[link to www.thebulletin.org]
Waterbug (OP)

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06/27/2011 12:23 AM

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Re: *** Fukushima *** and other nuclear-----updates and links
Three U.S. nuclear power plants need increased oversight from federal regulators because of safety problems or unplanned shutdowns, the Nuclear Regulatory Commission said Thursday, although officials said all are operating safely.

NRC Chairman Gregory Jaczko said the three plants — in South Carolina, Kansas and Nebraska — "are the plants we are most concerned about" among the 65 U.S. nuclear power plants in 31 states.

Jaczko did not identify the plants, but an agency spokesman said they are the H.B. Robinson nuclear plant in South Carolina, Fort Calhoun in Nebraska and Wolf Creek in Kansas.



Read more: [link to www.cbsnews.com]
Anonymous Coward
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06/27/2011 12:26 AM
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...


The reactor is shut down at calhoun. They must maintain cooling to the reactor and the SFP. Without knowing the layout it's hard to say what the situation is. A loss of coolant event would be worse case scenario. Meltdown? I have a lot more faith in american mitigation than I do Tepco.

It's on backup now. Hopefully they can restore full hard line power soon. I also hope they have enough fuel. At fuku they lost the fuel to the tsunami.

At Fuku the SFP is at a high level adjacent to the top of the reactor. If the SFP at calhoun is flooded I expect some contamination to occur.
 Quoting: Waterbug


Well that's a good point.

Anyone know how water is circulated in a shutdown PWR type system to keep a shutdown nuclear core cool? Does it still require the pressurized system or not?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1379944


Good question...what it all "boils" down to (excuse the pun) is that power must be maintained to keep any and all rods cool.
 Quoting: RememberThis


...btw, this is crad. lol
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1379944


sneaky fugger hi LOL
Anonymous Coward
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06/27/2011 12:28 AM
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Well that's a good point.

Anyone know how water is circulated in a shutdown PWR type system to keep a shutdown nuclear core cool? Does it still require the pressurized system or not?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1379944


Good question...what it all "boils" down to (excuse the pun) is that power must be maintained to keep any and all rods cool.
 Quoting: RememberThis


...btw, this is crad. lol
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1379944


sneaky fugger hi LOL
 Quoting: RememberThis


more fun being all covert-like. lol
Anonymous Coward
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06/27/2011 12:28 AM
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Re: *** Fukushima *** and other nuclear-----updates and links
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Good question...what it all "boils" down to (excuse the pun) is that power must be maintained to keep any and all rods cool.
 Quoting: RememberThis


...btw, this is crad. lol
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1379944


sneaky fugger hi LOL
 Quoting: RememberThis


more fun being all covert-like. lol
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1379944


yeah....those gasmasks get really sweaty and yucky after awhile chuckle
Anonymous Coward
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06/27/2011 12:30 AM
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Re: *** Fukushima *** and other nuclear-----updates and links
Three U.S. nuclear power plants need increased oversight from federal regulators because of safety problems or unplanned shutdowns, the Nuclear Regulatory Commission said Thursday, although officials said all are operating safely.

NRC Chairman Gregory Jaczko said the three plants — in South Carolina, Kansas and Nebraska — "are the plants we are most concerned about" among the 65 U.S. nuclear power plants in 31 states.

Jaczko did not identify the plants, but an agency spokesman said they are the H.B. Robinson nuclear plant in South Carolina, Fort Calhoun in Nebraska and Wolf Creek in Kansas.



Read more: [link to www.cbsnews.com]
 Quoting: Waterbug


Since Fuku brought the focus out of the dark ages...I wonder how much shit has gone on we have no clue about?
Anonymous Coward
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06/27/2011 12:38 AM
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Re: *** Fukushima *** and other nuclear-----updates and links
Three U.S. nuclear power plants need increased oversight from federal regulators because of safety problems or unplanned shutdowns, the Nuclear Regulatory Commission said Thursday, although officials said all are operating safely.

NRC Chairman Gregory Jaczko said the three plants — in South Carolina, Kansas and Nebraska — "are the plants we are most concerned about" among the 65 U.S. nuclear power plants in 31 states.

Jaczko did not identify the plants, but an agency spokesman said they are the H.B. Robinson nuclear plant in South Carolina, Fort Calhoun in Nebraska and Wolf Creek in Kansas.



Read more: [link to www.cbsnews.com]
 Quoting: Waterbug


Since Fuku brought the focus out of the dark ages...I wonder how much shit has gone on we have no clue about?
 Quoting: RememberThis


Catch Arnie's discussion to some group of people on youtube?

The thing I most took away from it was his discussion the emergency backup generators.

At Fukushima.. the generators were put in a shitty place... however, the biggest problem was that the pumps to provide coolant for the generators were down at the shore to pull in water to cool the generators. So even if the generators hadn't been inundated, the coolant pumps for them were destroyed so they were useless either way.

The situation is the same for the U.S. nuke plants... pumps have to be placed at the water source because, well, that's where the water is.... so with Ft Calhoun, the same situation exists. If the coolant pumps to the generators are breached, the generators die...

I had never considered this concept myself before Arnie mentioned it..
Anonymous Coward
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06/27/2011 12:50 AM
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Anyone watching the Fuku TEPCO cam?

Thats some wild ass fog...blink
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 721982
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06/27/2011 12:51 AM
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Re: *** Fukushima *** and other nuclear-----updates and links
They do seem to be working against a bad mix of issues. Seems way to familiar to Fuku for me.
 Quoting: Southern OR


Except in Fuku..the waters receded..our inland tsunami isnt
 Quoting: RememberThis


True. I certainly hope our US reactors are better equipped to handle this.
 Quoting: Southern OR


my faith is ummm weakening
Anonymous Coward
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06/27/2011 12:55 AM
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Re: *** Fukushima *** and other nuclear-----updates and links
"he berm's collapse allowed floodwaters to wash around the main electrical transformers. As a result, emergency diesel power generators were started. Later in the day, power was restored."

[link to online.wsj.com]
Anonymous Coward
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06/27/2011 01:03 AM
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"he berm's collapse allowed floodwaters to wash around the main electrical transformers. As a result, emergency diesel power generators were started. Later in the day, power was restored."

[link to online.wsj.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1378352


or so the wall street journal says. i have no doubts in a financial paper reporting quasi-true info if it benefits the financial state of the country...
Anonymous Coward
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06/27/2011 01:05 AM
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"power was restored" meaning the diesel generators worked or they are using their main source even though that concrete berm is getting more and more breached?

love their language. It's like how the inner tube berm was breached because of "onsite activities." Really? As compared to offsite activities, or onsite inactivities? Yes, we gather something happened onsite (an activity of some sort to be sure), thanks for the explanation!
Anonymous Coward
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06/27/2011 01:08 AM
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"he berm's collapse allowed floodwaters to wash around the main electrical transformers. As a result, emergency diesel power generators were started. Later in the day, power was restored."

[link to online.wsj.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1378352


or so the wall street journal says. i have no doubts in a financial paper reporting quasi-true info if it benefits the financial state of the country...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1379944


Cant help but agree....the heartland is now in the hands of diesel generators.....
JDSGUAM2

User ID: 1154207
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06/27/2011 01:10 AM

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Re: *** Fukushima *** and other nuclear-----updates and links
Anyone watching the Fuku TEPCO cam?

Thats some wild ass fog...blink
 Quoting: RememberThis


Fog again? At 2:00 in the afternoon? It is thicker than anything I ever saw in Germany when I was stationed there some years back.

Who would have thought that the Northern East Coast of Japan would be more foggy than the European Country-side? Hell Jack-the-Ripper would feel right at home there.
Anonymous Coward
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06/27/2011 01:11 AM
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I like how the article says water levels have fallen..thats not possible.
Did they not see the massive Mesocyclone that just wiped the whole area or what?
Anonymous Coward
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06/27/2011 01:12 AM
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Re: *** Fukushima *** and other nuclear-----updates and links
Anyone watching the Fuku TEPCO cam?

Thats some wild ass fog...blink
 Quoting: RememberThis


Fog again? At 2:00 in the afternoon? It is thicker than anything I ever saw in Germany when I was stationed there some years back.

Who would have thought that the Northern East Coast of Japan would be more foggy than the European Country-side? Hell Jack-the-Ripper would feel right at home there.
 Quoting: JDSGUAM2


Its now a little better..at least something is visible
JDSGUAM2

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06/27/2011 01:20 AM

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Re: *** Fukushima *** and other nuclear-----updates and links
Anyone watching the Fuku TEPCO cam?

Thats some wild ass fog...blink
 Quoting: RememberThis


Fog again? At 2:00 in the afternoon? It is thicker than anything I ever saw in Germany when I was stationed there some years back.

Who would have thought that the Northern East Coast of Japan would be more foggy than the European Country-side? Hell Jack-the-Ripper would feel right at home there.
 Quoting: JDSGUAM2


Its now a little better..at least something is visible
 Quoting: RememberThis


I guess my point is that IS NOT ALWAYS FOGGY in Japan! Not in the middle of the afternoon in late June!

I just tired to Google Search Fog in Japan in various ways and nothing. Mountain Valleys perhaps... not the pacific coast line.

This has been driving me nuts since the beginning! rant

Last Edited by JDSGUAM2 on 06/27/2011 01:28 AM
Anonymous Coward
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06/27/2011 01:29 AM
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Re: *** Fukushima *** and other nuclear-----updates and links
Anyone watching the Fuku TEPCO cam?

Thats some wild ass fog...blink
 Quoting: RememberThis


Fog again? At 2:00 in the afternoon? It is thicker than anything I ever saw in Germany when I was stationed there some years back.

Who would have thought that the Northern East Coast of Japan would be more foggy than the European Country-side? Hell Jack-the-Ripper would feel right at home there.
 Quoting: JDSGUAM2


Its now a little better..at least something is visible
 Quoting: RememberThis


I guess my point is that IS NOT ALWAYS FOGGY in Japan! Not in the middle of the afternoon in late June!

I just tired to Google Search Fog in Japan in various ways and nothing. Mountain Valleys perhaps... not the pacific coast line.

This has been driving my nuts since the beginning!
rant
 Quoting: JDSGUAM2

Guess that makes us fogtards...or is that an old saying? LOL
JDSGUAM2

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06/27/2011 01:36 AM

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Fog again? At 2:00 in the afternoon? It is thicker than anything I ever saw in Germany when I was stationed there some years back.

Who would have thought that the Northern East Coast of Japan would be more foggy than the European Country-side? Hell Jack-the-Ripper would feel right at home there.
 Quoting: JDSGUAM2


Its now a little better..at least something is visible
 Quoting: RememberThis


I guess my point is that IS NOT ALWAYS FOGGY in Japan! Not in the middle of the afternoon in late June!

I just tired to Google Search Fog in Japan in various ways and nothing. Mountain Valleys perhaps... not the pacific coast line.

This has been driving my nuts since the beginning!
rant
 Quoting: JDSGUAM2

Guess that makes us fogtards...or is that an old saying? LOL
 Quoting: RememberThis


Yep.. I must be a fogtard. Current Weather Conditions at Fukushima Airport:
Distance: 36 mi from Fukushima
Description: Light rain. Broken clouds. Mild.
Temperature: 66 °F Comfort Level: 66 °F
Wind: 5 mph from 130° SoutheastDirection Northwest
Last update: Mon 2:00 PM JST
Anonymous Coward
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06/27/2011 01:46 AM
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Its now a little better..at least something is visible
 Quoting: RememberThis


I guess my point is that IS NOT ALWAYS FOGGY in Japan! Not in the middle of the afternoon in late June!

I just tired to Google Search Fog in Japan in various ways and nothing. Mountain Valleys perhaps... not the pacific coast line.

This has been driving my nuts since the beginning!
rant
 Quoting: JDSGUAM2

Guess that makes us fogtards...or is that an old saying? LOL
 Quoting: RememberThis


Yep.. I must be a fogtard. Current Weather Conditions at Fukushima Airport:
Distance: 36 mi from Fukushima
Description: Light rain. Broken clouds. Mild.
Temperature: 66 °F Comfort Level: 66 °F
Wind: 5 mph from 130° SoutheastDirection Northwest
Last update: Mon 2:00 PM JST
 Quoting: JDSGUAM2


That sure doesnt describe the plant very well now does it.

Thick Fog...mist...visibility 1/4 mile at best.
JDSGUAM2

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06/27/2011 02:00 AM

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...


I guess my point is that IS NOT ALWAYS FOGGY in Japan! Not in the middle of the afternoon in late June!

I just tired to Google Search Fog in Japan in various ways and nothing. Mountain Valleys perhaps... not the pacific coast line.

This has been driving my nuts since the beginning!
rant
 Quoting: JDSGUAM2

Guess that makes us fogtards...or is that an old saying? LOL
 Quoting: RememberThis


Yep.. I must be a fogtard. Current Weather Conditions at Fukushima Airport:
Distance: 36 mi from Fukushima
Description: Light rain. Broken clouds. Mild.
Temperature: 66 °F Comfort Level: 66 °F
Wind: 5 mph from 130° SoutheastDirection Northwest
Last update: Mon 2:00 PM JST
 Quoting: JDSGUAM2


That sure doesnt describe the plant very well now does it.

Thick Fog...mist...visibility 1/4 mile at best.
 Quoting: RememberThis


I'm watching it move out on the cam now... sure doesn't look like fog lifting to me. More like smoke from #4 is drifting....

Last Edited by JDSGUAM2 on 06/27/2011 02:01 AM
Waterbug (OP)

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06/27/2011 08:58 AM

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Japan Nuclear Plant Begins Water Recycling .

TOKYO—In a key step forward, the operator of Japan's Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant Monday began a cooling system that allows heavily contaminated water to be re-used as a coolant for the reactor cores after the liquid undergoes a four-stage filtering process.

The system will substantially reduce the creation of highly radioactive water at the site as water was injected into the reactor cores to stop a dangerous rise in temperature. Some 110,000 metric tons of contaminated water has already built up in the plant's basements and the operator, Tokyo Electric Power Co., was on the verge of running out of suitable storage space.

[link to online.wsj.com]

- finally. Hope it operates a little while before the next problem. Then we have the problem of 2000 cu. meters of radioactive sludge from the filtering.
Waterbug (OP)

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06/27/2011 09:05 AM

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Nuclear Regulator: No Danger at Flooded Nebraska Plant

Water from the Missouri River that normally aids in cooling the Fort Calhoun Nuclear Station has now become its worst enemy, as a levee helping to protect electrical transformers at the Nebraska facility has collapsed, forcing workers to switch to emergency generators.

Flood waters reached containment buildings and transformers Sunday, forcing the shutdown of electrical power at the plant.

Although the plant has been shut down since April, Gregory Jaczsko, the head of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, is now Nebraska to see for himself but insisting that there is no danger.
"Mother nature takes care of the floods, so we have to do the best we can to make sure we're prepared, and all the plants in the U.S. have been designed to deal with historically the largest possible floods," Jaczsko said.

[link to abcnews.go.com]

- If 'designed to deal with' means artificial berms and sandbags, this statement is correct. I highly suspect these types of blanket statements. NRC is not always so forthright...or correct.
Monkeyfister

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06/27/2011 09:07 AM
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Excellent update, (with pics) on the Ft. Calhoun aquadam failure:

[link to www.washingtonsblog.com]

Fort Calhoun, took two steps backward on Sunday. In the pre-dawn hours, a piece of heavy equipment nicked a temporary rubber berm, 8 feet high and 2,000 feet long, and it deflated. And water there began to approach the switchyard, where grid power enters the complex, so operators started up their diesel generators.
(end snip)

Washington's Blog has been doing great reporting on Ft. Calhoun, and Fukushima. I do wish I knew the blogger.

Last Edited by Monkeyfister on 06/27/2011 09:07 AM
"I'm the bride at every funeral, I'm the corpse at every wedding..." --Brother Theodore
... and don't blame me-- I voted for Bob Barr in 2008.
Only COWARDS hide behind anonymous Karma.
Waterbug (OP)

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06/27/2011 09:07 AM

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New Mexico wildfires force evacuation at Los Alamos nuclear labratory



Raging wildfires in New Mexico forced the evacuation of the famed nuclear lab at Los Alamos Monday, though officials insist that radioactive material is secure.

Fires have burned as close as one mile from the government lab - threatening buildings, power lines and gas lines, officials said.



Read more: [link to www.nydailynews.com]

- shaking head
Waterbug (OP)

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06/27/2011 09:12 AM

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Researchers ask Fukushima residents to move out as radiation in urine is detected

According to radiation biologists, more than three millisieverts of radiation has been measured in the urine of 15 residents living within a radius of 30 to 40 kilometers from Fukushima reactor No. 1, which has been releasing radioactive elements after being hit by the disastrous tsunami triggered by the March 11 earthquake in Japan.

[link to www.ibtimes.com]

- I guess we now know what it takes to get people out that are outside the mandatory evac. zone. If your piss glows in the dark.
Waterbug (OP)

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06/27/2011 09:17 AM

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Excellent update, (with pics) on the Ft. Calhoun aquadam failure:

[link to www.washingtonsblog.com]

Fort Calhoun, took two steps backward on Sunday. In the pre-dawn hours, a piece of heavy equipment nicked a temporary rubber berm, 8 feet high and 2,000 feet long, and it deflated. And water there began to approach the switchyard, where grid power enters the complex, so operators started up their diesel generators.
(end snip)

Washington's Blog has been doing great reporting on Ft. Calhoun, and Fukushima. I do wish I knew the blogger.
 Quoting: Monkeyfister


I wonder first, what were they doing so close to the berm with machinery that could damage it?, and why at 1:30 AM?
What did they need to do that was worth compromising the integrity of the berm?

Thanks for the link.