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For those who doubt the apostle paul

 
Anonymous Coward
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06/24/2011 05:54 PM
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Re: For those who doubt the apostle paul
Here are a few more points for starters regarding the false Apostle Paul.

#1 Paul gives 3 totally conflicting conversion accounts in the book of Acts.

#2 In the 3rd conversion account Paul quotes Dionysus from a pagan play!

#3 Paul also in his 3rd conversion accounts LIES about why he got arrested and caused even more of a disturbance and a riot because of his lie!

#4 Paul gives a fourth conflicting account of his conversion in Galatians.

#5 Paul lies about what Hab 2:4 really says as I pointed out in the above post. Remember, people could not just go purchase a "Bible" back then to check up on Paul. The Hebrew Scriptures were penned on dried animal skins, and it took the around $50-75,000 dollars of today's value to get even 1 Tanakh totally made (in Scrolls)

#6 Paul lies in Galatians about the events of Acts 15 and say "We were only to remember the poor", he leaves out the other 4 things which were listed as starting points for Jews and Gentiles to come together.

#7 Paul teaches against the FOREVER AND EVERLASTING command of circumcision. No stranger could even partake of Passover unless they were circumcised! Abraham's servants who were not even "Jews" were circumcised! This alone shows Paul to be a false prophet!

#8 Jesus teaches us to love our enemies. Paul turns his enemies over to SATAN FOR TORTURE!

#9 Jesus says not to call your brother a fool, but Paul calls the ENTIRE REGION of Galatia fools because they have went after another "Gospel" of Peter, James, and John, whom Paul said were only "Seemed to be pillars".

#10 Jesus says we are saved by keeping the commandments! Paul on says the exact opposite!

#11 Jesus says the Torah is eternal, and that as his followers we are to DO and teach the least of the Torah. Anyone who breaks and does not do the least is the LEAST in the kingdom of heaven! Paul teaches against this! Paul says the Torah was "nailed to the cross".

#12 Paul says the Torah was to condemn people. YHWH says the Torah was given so that we human being could CHOOSE LIFE!

#13 Paul says the Torah caused him to sin! What filth and utter blasphemy! Paul says the Torah made sin stonger in him and wrought all manner of sin in him! I am curious how many of you christians read "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbors wife" and had that make you sin? Paul also calls Moses and YHWH a liar during this section!

#14 Paul lies about what Moses said in Galatians. Moses told us NOT TO SPIRITUALIZE THE TORAH and to never whine that the Torah was hard to keep! Moses said it was easy and right here that we may DO IT. Paul leaves out the "Do it" part and replaces with faith! Paul also spiritualizes the entire Torah!


#15 Paul tells people to remain slaves because Jesus is coming back!

#16 Paul tells people to remain single and stay in the state you were found! YHWH tells us to marry and have kids!

#17 Paul directly broke Torah, which commands us to let a slave who has escaped settle anywhere he wants in the land. Torah says this slave can never be returned to his master and that the slave is to be left alone! PAUL RETURNS ONISEMUS TO HIS MASTER! How did Paul's "Freedom" work out for that guy?

#18 Paul breaks Torah and says "IF you do not work you do not eat" Torah commands us to leave the corners of our field untouched so that the orphan, the poor, the widows, and the illegal aliens/strangers can eat!

#19 Paul says that a woman is saved via Child bearing.

#20 Paul lies and says no man is righteous and takes 6 verses from all over the Tanakh out of context (where King David is contrasting the righteous with the wicked!) to attack the Romans who accused Paul of being a liar which Paul admits in Romans 3:7


I COULD GO ON FOR HOURS ABOUT PAUL. HE IS A FALSE PROPHET! AND REMEMBER! EVEN IF I AM WRONG ON EVERY POINT ACCEPT 1, THEN EVEN BY THAT 1 PAUL IS STILL A FALSE PROPHET! I ONLY HAVE TO BE CORRECT ONE TIME!

Turn back to the Creator and the teachings of Y'shua and leave Paul behind!
Anonymous Coward
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06/24/2011 05:56 PM
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Re: For those who doubt the apostle paul
I am guessing you are trying to refute my post from last night on the apocrypha thread.

Ask yourself, please.


Does God change?
No.we agree


Does God lie?
No.agree


Did God allow the serpent in his own perfect garden (Eden)?
Yes.i have no idea what a serpent has to do with this particular conversation, judas did fulfill that serpent if thats what you are driving at.


Does God test His people?
Yes.sure God tests his people, but if this is the way you want to look at things Mr. Catholic, then lets play!


Do you think you are better than Adam and Eve or anyone else He tested?


Paul is a liar, plain and simple. The faster you figure it out and get over it, the faster you can form a real relationship with God.

this is a good point, but if we play it your way, then peter is a liar as well, and apparently peter has no authority, or the Holy Spirit much less the ability to discern, and by the way, this alludes you outright calling Jesus himself a liar! For it was Jesus himself that told the Apostles he would send the Holy Spirit to guide them into ALL TRUTHS!

it is by the Holy Spirit the Peter can discern the intents of people, much like the story above, it is with the Holy SPirit which Peter had authority, referr to the story above again!

It is with that same Holy SPirit Peter has that he would have outted Paul if indeed he was there amoung them as a false Apostle, NOT calling him "our beloved brother" but would have told him to die as he did the people in the story above.

peter was not a soft man given into being nice, quite the contrary, he carried a sword and was prone to react dangerously, remember the roman guards ear??? remember the 2 people in the story above??

the truth of the matter is, your disillusioned. and are preaching and teaching a lie.





Revelation 2:2-5

Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks; I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars: And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted. Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1441822


Paul did alot of work in ephesus.

if paul was of those false apostles, why didnt they kill him alot sooner???

another thing, its plural, there was many false teachers/apostles.

2 Peter 2:1 KJV
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

and yet Peter say, "our beloved brother Paul"

you are in error!
 Quoting: Sword0fGideon


Of course it is plural, Paul had many toadies with him.

Regardless the point still stands.

Paul "I am a Apostle"

Ephesus "No you are not"

Jesus "Great job Ephesus"

Undeniable and undebatable.
Daniel's Seventieth Seven
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06/24/2011 06:12 PM
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Re: For those who doubt the apostle paul
Ephesus "No you are not"

Jesus "Great job Ephesus"


 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1052634



Ephesus could speak?

Incredible!

Learning something new everyday!




:)
Anonymous Coward
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06/24/2011 06:31 PM
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Re: For those who doubt the apostle paul
More points regarding Paul

#1 Paul claimed to be a Pharisee of Pharisees. Jesus told us to beware of this class of religious guru.

For those who may not know, the Pharisees practiced the "Oral Torah" or what is known today as Talmud. While there is much wisdom in much of the writings, there are also thousands of laws which add and subtract from the Torah of Moses. This is forbidden.

#2 Paul claims the Herodian is his kinsman! Jesus specifically told his followers to beware of the Herodians! So Paul claims to be a member of both groups Jesus WENT OUT OF HIS WAY TO WARN YOU ABOUT!

#3 Herodians claimed to be jews but were not! They were actually EDOMITES. The Herodians claimed to be Jews of the tribe of ..............Benjamin! Paul of course admits he is a Herodian and says he is trying to be from the tribe of Benjamin!

#4 Didn't Jesus specifically warn you in Revelations about those who "Claimed to be Jews but were not"! In first century Judea during this time period, EVERYONE KNEW THIS MEAN THE HERODIANS!

#5 Church history even records that Paul was a GENTILE who converted to Judaism in order to marry the daughter of the high priest. (Who was a Saducee not a pharisee btw). Paul was such a famous thug for this high priest Josephus talks about him in book XX of Antiquities of the Jews!

Later the high priest refused to let Paul marry his daughter and Paul went on his rant against circumcision and the Jews! And FYI Gamaliel only took advanced ADULT STUDENTS!

#6 Paul claims that woman are saved via child birth!

#7 Paul forbids a woman to speak or have authority over a man, even though Jesus treated them equally, and a woman is as much the daughter of YHWH as we are his sons! Israel had both male AND FEMALE PROPHETS, and Deborah lead all of Israel as a judge!

#8 The Torah is forever and everlasting, and the prophets tell us that ANYONE WHO DOES NOT SPEAK ACCORDING TO THE TORAH OR PROPHETS HAVE NO LIGHT IN THEM! Paul lies and tells us the Torah was only a schoolmaster till Jesus came!

#9 Paul claims faith came when Jesus did and argues since Jesus is here we are justified by faith............why does he claim this..........because he says Abraham was justified by faith! Now wait a minute Paul, you just said faith came with Jesus!

#10 Paul says he is a fake! paul makes it clear that when he is around Jews he pretends to keep Torah, and that when he is around non Jews who pretends to be them! He is a chameleon and fake!

#11 Every Jew from Asia in Acts accuses Paul of teachings JEWS EVERYWHERE not to keep the law of Moses. These are devout Jews who have traveled all the way from ASIA MINOR (The same Place Jesus writes to in Revelations) to keep the feast! This all leads to Paul's arrest, and then Paul LIES ABOUT WHY HE GOT ARRESTED!

#12 Paul quotes pagan authors all throughout his writings. Paul quotes pagan gods. Paul quotes a pagan play AND CALLS THE MAN A PROPHET WHEN THE PLAY WAS GIVING HONOR TO ZEUS AND CALLING CRETANS LIARS BECAUSE CRETANS DID NOT BELIEVE ZEUS ROSE FROM THE DEAD!

Need I go on folks?

Again, I remind you, I need only be correct on 1 point in all this!
Anonymous Coward
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06/24/2011 06:36 PM
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Re: For those who doubt the apostle paul
Also may I point out 38,000+ denominations of Christianity which all for the most part ignore the God they claim to worship and ignore the teachings of Jesus, and instead all argue about what Paul said! (all while each claims to be full of the spirit of course!)
Daniel's Seventieth Seven
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06/24/2011 06:39 PM
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Re: For those who doubt the apostle paul
Jesus himself told the Samaritan woman that THE JEWS HAD IT RIGHT ALL ALONG. ...

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1052634




The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. (Matt 21)





:)
Anonymous Coward
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06/24/2011 06:48 PM
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Re: For those who doubt the apostle paul
This is very interesting. I am not as learned as you two gentlepersons, but I've long wondered about the whole Pauline thing. Most of the New Testament is about Paul. Many of Paul's teaching seem contrary to things Jesus said. I am not saying Paul was false, but just that I am confused. Jesus treated women with love and respect; Paul seemed to fear and revile them.
Daniel's Seventieth Seven
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06/24/2011 06:49 PM
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Re: For those who doubt the apostle paul
Need I go on folks?

Again, I remind you, I need only be correct on 1 point in all this!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1052634




Just for fun- could you reference a scripture for each of your observations?





:)
Anonymous Coward
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06/24/2011 06:52 PM
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Re: For those who doubt the apostle paul
This is very interesting. I am not as learned as you two gentlepersons, but I've long wondered about the whole Pauline thing. Most of the New Testament is about Paul. Many of Paul's teaching seem contrary to things Jesus said. I am not saying Paul was false, but just that I am confused. Jesus treated women with love and respect; Paul seemed to fear and revile them.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1438007


You listen to that feeling friend. That is the true divine spirit of the Creator of the Universe warning you against Paul!

Obey the Creator of the Universe and the teachings of Jesus and ignore Paul!

Google Jesus Words Only and read it! It is a excellent expose on Paul of Tarsus done by a trial lawyer who leaves no stones uncovered!
Anonymous Coward
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06/24/2011 06:54 PM
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Re: For those who doubt the apostle paul
Need I go on folks?

Again, I remind you, I need only be correct on 1 point in all this!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1052634




Just for fun- could you reference a scripture for each of your observations?





:)
 Quoting: Daniel's Seventieth Seven 1071051


No the proof of burden is not on me. Anyone who has actually read the Scriptures knows that everything I have pointed out is 100% true! Sorry, But it would take forever to do all this also! Although if you have a specific question I can point you to the general area.

All one needs to do is read Paul's letters and compare them with the Gospels, and James, Jude, and John, and the Tanakh!

Also I would rather you read the entire book in context then read only 4-5 verses that I point out!
Anonymous Coward
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06/24/2011 06:55 PM
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Re: For those who doubt the apostle paul
Jesus himself told the Samaritan woman that THE JEWS HAD IT RIGHT ALL ALONG. ...

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1052634




The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. (Matt 21)





:)
 Quoting: Daniel's Seventieth Seven 1071051


Congratulations, you pointed out a contradiction in the gospels (of which there are hundreds). This does not resolve Paul.

(And FYI read the Tanakh, the covenant with Israel was FOREVER)
Anonymous Coward
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06/24/2011 06:59 PM
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Re: For those who doubt the apostle paul
Need I go on folks?

Again, I remind you, I need only be correct on 1 point in all this!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1052634




Just for fun- could you reference a scripture for each of your observations?





:)
 Quoting: Daniel's Seventieth Seven 1071051


Daniel Just to give you some references here is a large list of further questions with Scriptures in mind.

This is done by a buddy of mine named Jeff Ward.

Questions to Ask Your Preacher about Paul of Tarsus
by Jeff Ward

Relating to Revelation 2:1-2

o If Paul wasn’t guilty as Rev 2:2 alleges, then why does he address those at Ephesus as an "apostle” in Ephesians 1:1?

o How can Paul be a 13th apostle when Revelation 21:14 says there are only twelve?

o How can Paul be a 13th apostle when Jesus tells us in Matthew 19:28 there are only twelve?

o If Paul’s apostleship was not in question, then why does he defend it in 1st Corinthians 9:1-3? Why does he speak in v.3 of those who “try” him unless he was “tried” as Rev 2:2 alleges?

o If Paul was not one whom the Ephesians found to be a liar in Rev 2:2, then why does Paul say in 2nd Timothy 1:15 that “all they which are in Asia have turned away from me.”?

o If Paul was not called a liar about his apostleship, then why does he specifically say in 1st Timothy 2:7 he is not lying about his apostleship?

If Paul’s words are “holy scriptures”, then why does 2nd Timothy 3:15 say Timothy had been reading them since he was a child? Were Paul’s letters even written when Timothy was a child?

If “none are righteous” as Paul universally declares in Romans 3:9-20, then why are the parents of John the Baptist declared “righteous before God” in Luke 1:6?

Why does Paul say, “as it is written” in Romans 3:10 and then string together single sentences from no less than six places in the Bible, stringing them together as if they are one statement? Does he truly
represent it “as it is written?” Are his conclusions the same as the original?

Why does Paul quote the “old testament” at all if it is not authoritative?

Part of Paul’s Romans 3:10 quote comes from Psalms 14. If there are “none righteous” including believers as Paul alleges, then why does Psalm 14:5 say, “for God is in the generation of the righteous”? Why would God speak of those who Paul says never existed?

If Paul acknowledges being Herodian in Romans 16:11 and Jesus tells me in Mark 8:15 to beware the leaven of Herod, then shouldn’t I obey Jesus and beware the leaven (doctrine) of Paul?

If Paul even late in his ministry claims to be a Pharisee in Acts 23:6 and Jesus tells me in Luke 12:1 to beware the leaven of the Pharisees, then shouldn’t I obey Jesus and beware Paul?

Paul claimed to have encountered Jesus in the desert on the road to Damascus. Jesus told me in Matthew 14:15 when someone claims to see him in the desert don’t believe him. Should I take the
advice of Jesus?

Paul in Galatians 1 emphasizes his knowledge comes directly from Jesus and not from man. Jesus says in Matthew 14:5 if someone claims to see him in the secret chambers, I should not believe him. Who
was telling me the truth?

If Paul’s claim in Galatians 2:16 is true, that we are saved by faith only, then why does James refute this in James 2:14-26 calling the author of this doctrine “o vain man” in v.20?

If eating meat sacrificed to idols is okay as long as your “weaker brother” is not around as described in 1st Corinthians 8, then why is this practice later described as being hated by Jesus as the “doctrine of
Balaam” in Revelation 2:14? Why does Rev 2:20 condemn it when Paul says it’s okay if nobody knows about it?

Why did Paul tell the Corinthians idol meat was okay when the council at Jerusalem had specifically listed this as a forbidden practice in Acts 15:29?

Why did Paul ignore the four commands of the Jerusalem council in Acts 15 telling the Galatians in 2:10 they were only commanded to “remember the poor”?

If Paul appeared in Jerusalem in Acts 9:26 after his conversion, then why does he tell the Galatians in 1:18 that he waited three years to go? Why does he assure us in v.20 he is not lying?

If the “other gospel” Paul speaks of in Galatians 1:6 was not the very one taught by Peter, James and John, then why does Paul attack the character of these three men in Galatians 2?

Why did Paul accuse Peter “before them all” when Jesus said in Matthew 18:15-17 to first confront a brother privately, then with two witnesses before going public?

Why did Paul criticize Peter for being Jewish around the Jews and Gentile around the Gentiles in Galatians 2:14 when this is precisely what Paul says he himself practices in 1st Corinthians 9:20-22?

If the gospel of the circumcision was committed to Paul and the gospel of the Jews to Peter as Paul claims in Galatians 2:7, then why does Peter claim just the opposite in Acts 15:7?

Why does Paul, now 17 years into his ministry fear in Galatians 2:3 that he “had run in vain”?

If obeying the law is bondage as Paul claims in Galatians 4:9, then why did Jesus tell the man in Mark 10:17 that he must “obey the commandments” to “have eternal life”. Was Jesus trying to bring that
man into bondage?

If the covenant at Sinai was given to the descendants of Rebecca and Isaac, then why does Paul try to relate it instead to Hagar in Galatians 4:25?

Why did Paul circumcise Timothy in Acts 16:1-3 and then tell him 1) It causes Christ to profit him nothing, 2) He is now a debtor to the whole law and 3) He is fallen from grace in Galatians 5:2-4? Why
would Paul do such a terrible thing to Timothy? Did Paul hate Timothy?

If God brought the children of Israel to Sinai to put them in bondage to the law as Paul claims in Galatians, then why did he tell them at that time he was bringing them “out of bondage” in Exodus 2:2? Was this some cruel trick God was playing on them?

If the law puts is in bondage, why does God say he “redeemed you out of the house of bondage” in Deuteronomy 13:5?

If Jesus abolished the law as Paul claims in Ephesians 2:15, then why does Jesus say in Matthew 5:17 that he did not come to destroy the law? Why does Jesus say it will not pass until AFTER heaven and
earth have (v.17) passed away? Has that already happened? What does verse 18 say Paul’s place in the kingdom of heaven be as a result?

Paul claims in Ephesians 3:3 to have knowledge of mysteries of God revealed only through him. Paul bears witness of himself even though Jesus says he himself could not in John 5:31. Is Paul superior to
Jesus?

Paul speaks in Ephesians 6:19 of making known a “mystery of the gospel.” Why wasn’t this mystery shared with the 12 apostles Jesus spent 3 ½ years training?

If Paul could be given all knowledge with a single blinding flash, then why did Jesus spend his entire ministry training apostles? Why didn’t he just zap them?

Paul says in Philippians 2:7 that Jesus came in the “likeness of men”. Paul claims in Romans 8:3 that Jesus came in the “likeness of sinful flesh.” 1st John says anyone who says that Christ came in
something other than flesh is of the spirit of antichrist. This is known in theology as the doctrine of docetism. Why is Paul excused for teaching this doctrine?

If the law is a curse as Paul alleges, then why should we “establish the law” in Romans 3:31?

If the “mysteries of God” were revealed through a single man Paul as he claims in Colossians 1:23-26 and elsewhere, then what grounds do we have for rejecting Joseph Smith, Mohammed, the Pope and
many others who claim exactly the same thing?

If the law was “against us” as Paul claims in Colossians 2:14, then why do Deuteronomy 17:19, Proverbs 6:23 and Proverbs 13:14 say it’s the way to life?

Why does Paul say we can do what we want with the Sabbath days in Colossians 2:16 when the Ten Commandments say, “Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy.”?

Who has authorized Paul to give new commandments as he does in 1st Thessalonians 4:2?

Who is the authority Paul is demanding people to obey in 2nd Thessalonians 3:14?

Paul commands in 3:6-7 that we obey the traditions he commands. Did Jesus ever tell us we should obey Paul?

Exactly what did Paul do to Hymeneus and Alexander in 1st Timothy 1:20 to deliver them to satan? Did he kill them? Is it normal for a minister of God to deliver people to Satan?

Is Paul’s practice of rebuking before all in 1st Timothy 5:20 consistent with Jesus admonitions in Matthew 18:15-17?

Why was Paul seeking a prophet in 1st Corinthians 14:37 to endorse his commands? Is there a prophet on record ever having done so?

If the men that were on the Damascus road heard the voice that spoke to Paul in Acts 9:7, then why does Paul change his story in Acts 22:9 saying they didn’t hear it? Is it possible these men refuted his
earlier story?

Why does Paul claim in Acts 9:10-16 that his mission to the Gentiles was delivered through Ananias but then refute it later saying it was told to him directly by Jesus without going to Damascus later in Acts
26:16-18? Could it be that Ananias refused to support his earlier story and he had to change it?

Why does Paul say he is ready to die at Jerusalem in Acts 21:13 and then instead “appeal to Caesar” in Acts 25:11?

According to Acts 21:20-21, Paul stood accused by believers in Jesus. That means they believed in his resurrection. Paul was accused by them of teaching believers to forsake the Law of Moses. Why did
Paul lie in Acts 23:6 he was being accused instead of believing in the resurrection? Did Jesus ever lie to save his hide?

Why does Paul criticize those who “go to law” before unbelievers instead of with one another in 1st Corinthians 6:1-8, but then “appeal to Caesar” when he is accused by fellow believers (Acts 21:20) in
Jesus?

Why did Jesus tell the original Apostles to “go unto all nations” in Matthew 28:19 and then take this away from them in Galatians 2 leaving twelve guys to minister to the Jews and only one guy in charge
of the Gentiles?

Why did Jesus keep his Apostles in the dark about Paul in Matthew 28? Why didn’t he tell them a new guy would be showing up making some changes in the plan?

If Gamaliel encouraged everyone to leave the believers in Jesus alone in Acts 5:34, and if Paul was his student as Paul claims in Acts 22:3, then why was Paul trying to do exactly the opposite as his teacher
was teaching?

Why would Paul grumble about apostles “chosen of men” in Galatians 1:1 if he did not covet the apostleship given to Mathias in Acts 1:23-26?

If the writings of Paul are confusing as 2nd Peter 3:15-16 affirms, then why did the Holy Spirit write confusing things through Paul and not through others?

Why does Paul quote the Greek philosopher Philo in Titus 1:12? Does the Holy Spirit quote philosophers as resources?

Did the Cretan prophet in Titus 1:12 tell the truth or a lie? Please explain.

After calling himself an apostle 16 times in Rom 1:1, 11:13, 1st Cor 1:1, 9:1, 9:2, 15:9, 2nd Cor 1:1, 12:12, Gal 1:1, Eph 1:1, Col 1:1, 1Tim 1:1, 1Tim 2:7, 2Tim 1:1, 1:11 and Titus 1:1, why does Paul drop all claims of apostleship when on the hotseat in Jerusalem claiming in Acts 26:16 only to be a “minister and a witness”?

The only one of Paul’s churches that is considered a “candlestick” in Revelation 1:11 is the one that is complimented for rejecting him. Coincidence? Where are the Corinthians? The church at Rome?
Galatians? Colossians? Considering Revelation 2:5, could it be they lost their candlestick?

Why does Paul say in Galatians 4:8-9 that the law was ordained by angels when Exodus 20 clearly says it is given by God?

If Jesus says in Matthew 22:38 the law and the prophets hang on two great commandments, why does Paul OMIT the most important one saying in Galatians 5:14 the law is fulfilled in the second one only?
(Note, James 2:8 calls “love thy neighbor” the “royal law” without saying it’s the ONLY one.)

Deuteronomy 13:1-3 says God will test us with false prophets to see if we love him with all our heart. Could this be true?
Anonymous Coward
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06/24/2011 07:31 PM
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Re: For those who doubt the apostle paul
Bump for real truth!
TwinSister

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06/24/2011 07:34 PM

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Re: For those who doubt the apostle paul
Paul was a chosen vessel of the LORD. Paul was to share the mystery of CHRIST, that was from the beginning of the world.
 Quoting: sandpiper 1440722


mystery of God's anointed...........and yes we too have been anointed......hf
If you don't have control of your mind.....someone else will!
Anonymous Coward
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06/24/2011 07:45 PM
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Re: For those who doubt the apostle paul
Peter warned that the meaning of Paul's writings would be distorted by the error of Lawless men. 2 Peter 3:11-18 NIV

I see in the middle part of Acts 21 that this distortion was already occuring back in the day. Paul even goes out of his way to keep the Law by participating in a Nazirite vow. I believe Paul to be righteous man in the eyes of Father after believing in Messiah. It's simply the meaning of his writings that have been distorted and a religion built upon them. However, Messiah said his church would be built upon Peter.

Ask yourself this question: What group of people oppose keeping the Law (making them Lawless) and also teach Paul's writings? I believe it's modern traditional christianity.....the teachers of Lawlessness.
Anonymous Coward
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06/24/2011 07:51 PM
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Re: For those who doubt the apostle paul
I am your huckleberry OP.

I will 100% engage you in debate regarding the false Apostle Paul!

I have a few rules.

#1 You must refute ANY and ALL points I raise regarding Paul.

#2 The burden of proof is upon you.

#3 If at ANY TIME I can show even one time that:

A. Paul lied.
B. Paul misquoted Moses.
C. Paul misquoted the Tanakh.
D. Paul undermined the Authority of the 12.
E. Paul taught the opposite of Jesus

You will at once, and without hesitation declare both privately and in public, Paul to be a false prophet!


To Begin I will discuss your post which will be left in black, with my replies in red.


But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession, 2 And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet. 3 But Peter said , Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? 4 Whiles it remained , was it not thine own ? and after it was sold , was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God. 5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down , and gave up the ghost : and great fear came on all them that heard these things. 6 And the young men arose , wound him up , and carried him out , and buried him. 7 And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done , came in . 8 And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said , Yea, for so much. 9 Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold , the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out . 10 Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost : and the young men came in , and found her dead, and, carrying her forth , buried her by her husband.

can anybody understand what this is saying???

it basically says Peter has authority.....

can anyone else see what else it is saying???

that through the Holy Spirit, Peter could discern things.

First of all your entire concept that Peter has authority destroys your own argument.

Paul himself attempts to undermine the authority of Peter in the book of Galatians when he writes TO THE ENTIRE REGION of Galatia and attempts to make Peter look like a hypocrite over the issue of Food. While Paul the moron of Tarsus, says in the very letter that anyone who is circumcised "Christ will profit them nothing.

Paul being the biggest hypocrite to ever walk the planet earth then has Timothy circumcised for "Fear of the Jews"!


15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

Ah here we have the typical christian argument, and a perfect example of why I do not care much for christians.

Why you ask? Because you are liars who only quote a numbered soundbyte called a "verse" that seems to enforce your religious dogma.

You failed to state several things here regarding 2 Peter chapter 3.

#1 It is well know that 2 Peter is a forgery and that Peter never wrote this. Even church history records that even during the time which this letter began to circulate (Which was way after the real Peter was dead), the people then considered this to be a forgery!

Now I realize that as a christian this utterly terrifies you, and you will rationlize this away and just think what a bad person I am (For dare telling you the truth). Almost all of the MOST CONSERVATIVE SCHOLARS ADMIT 2 PETER IS A FORGERY, ONLY THE MOST FUNDAMENTAL (BRAINWASHED) SCHOLARS DENY IT A FORGERY! Peter did not even spell his name correctly!


#2 For the sake of argument we are going to assume for a moment that 2 Peter is legit, and go over a few things.

A. You failed to quote the entire section showing because it shows you to be full of shit. You only quoted 1 sentence taken out of context to reinforce your religious dogma!

B. Historically both Martin Luther and John Calvin wanted 2 Peter removed from Scripture BECAUSE THEY FELT IT WAS WRITTEN AS A CONDEMNATION OF PAUL!

C. You failed to mention the context of 2 Peter 3. "Peter" or the anonymous author was warning about false prophets. IN FACT VERSE 17 SAYS THAT PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT LEARNED IN THE SCRIPTURES (THE TANAKH, ONLY THEY EXISTED) DESTROY THEMSELVES WITH PAUL AND USE PAUL AS A EXCUSE FOR LAWLESSNESS!

So in reality 2 Peter chapter 3 is a warning about the stuff Paul writes and "Peter" warns Paul's letters will destroy people and make them forsake the law of Moses!

DO YOU KNOW OF ANY RELIGIONS THAT ARE BASED UPON PAUL'S LETTERS THAT FORSAKE THE LAW OF MOSES?


If Peter has the ability to discern, and paul is a false apostle, then why does Peter call him "beloved brother Paul"??

Why doesn't "Peter" here call Paul an Apostle? Once again this is a WARNING about the things Paul writes, not some hype about Paul!

Again, if Paul is false, why then does Peter go with Paul to Rome???

There is NO ACCOUNT IN SCRIPTURE OF PETER EVER GOING TO ROME WITH PAUL.

In fact, Peter's tomb has been found in ISRAEL, proving the roman church fairy tells about Peter to be false!

Not to mention, ALL THE WRITINGS OF PETER THAT WERE NOT VOTED INTO CANNON, SHOW PAUL TO BE THE ACTUAL ENEMY OF THE 12 APOSTLES! THIS IS BACKED UP BY THE DEAD SEA SCROLLS!


the answer is simple, its because Paul wasnt a false apostle!

Yes Paul was, he admits it in his own letters that he was rejected as a false Apostle by all of Asia Minor (modern day Turkey). In fact this is where John presided over at one time, and these are the very "Churches" that Jesus wrote to in Revelations!

Jesus reveals much in his letters

#1 None of these churches (Besides Ephesus) were established by Paul! NONE OF THEM!

#2 Paul admits via his own letters to Timothy that he was rejected as a false Apostle as Ephesus. JESUS BRAGS ON EPHESUS FOR REJECTING FALSE APOSTLES!

#3 Jesus rebukes churches who were eating meat sacrificed to idols! Paul in his very letters teaches that this is ok to do!


To preach or teach otherwise is rebellion unto the Lord and his authority, because that is the authority Peter and all the Apostles worked under.

Actually the real Apostles rebuke Paul in their own letters.

#1 James is a direct refutation of Paul. James specifically says a man is NOT saved by faith alone! It is well known via church history that Paul was James enemy. James was Jesus BROTHER who was head of the churches and the Apostles after Jesus died.

#2 Jude, another brother of Jesus, is a direct refutation of Pauline filth, as Jude points out the people who were turning "Grace into a license to sin". Sin as defined by the Torah and the Apostle John in 1 John 3:4 is "TRANSGRESSION OF THE TORAH" aka breaking the Torah. Now just who in first century Judea was preaching "grace and faith alone" as a license to not keep the law of Moses?

#3 1 John is a direct refutation of Paul of Tarsus. John reveals several things

a. John tells us "Let no man fool you, he who practices righteousness is righteous" WHAT MAN IN FIRST CENTURY JUDEA WAS TELLING PEOPLE THEY WERE RIGHTEOUS VIA A SIMPLE "FAITH THOUGHT" ABOUT JESUS!

B. John tells us that the spirit of Anti-Messiah went out from among them and was at large. John also tells us to test the spirits, and that anyone who says Jesus was not 100% human was the spirit of anti-christ John says anyone who says Jesus did not "Come in the flesh" in your English Bible.

Paul twice in his letters teaches the exact opposite and says Jesus only came in the "likeness of Flesh"

C. John tells us that anyone who does not keep the commandments is a LIAR and the truth is not in them.

D. John tells us that we correctly love our neighbors and love YHWH if we KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS!



16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest , as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

And this is why I do not like Christians, because you sir, forgot to quote verse 17! (because it destroys your argument!)

AND STICK TO THE STORY LINE!!!

The Gentiles were storming the gates of heaven getting in.

The Jews were the ones having problems understanding!

Actually Christian, Jesus himself told the Samaritan woman that THE JEWS HAD IT RIGHT ALL ALONG. Jesus rebuked only certain rabbinical classes which used the TALMUD or the so called "Oral Torah".

The Talmud adds or subtracts thousands of man made laws and traditions. The TORAH FORBIDS THIS!


thats why paul was successful and Peter wrote this, Peter was ministering to whom???? the Jews.

Uh no Paul was not successful, Paul admits via his own letters that he was rejected everywhere as a false Apostle!

In fact history shows us that those who quoted Paul were considered heretics and marcionites!
American Protestant christianity is nothing but modern day Marcionism where everything Jesus taught is ignored and Paul is the god.

Paul also admits via his own letters extreme jealousy of the "Chief Apostle", whom Paul mocks as "Those that seemed to be pillars" (Jesus said they were pillars!) Paul also goes on extensive rants in 2 Corinthians where he admits he is tormented by a fallen angel, and Paul admits the Corinthians have left him for the "Super Apostles". Paul later admits AND THREATENS TO KILL THE CORINTHIANS FOR ASKING FOR "PROOF THAT CHRIST SPEAKS IN ME"

Paul also undermines the very same Apostles in Galatians, and admits that PAUL preaches another gospel!


works do not produce faith, works are a product of Faith!!

There is no concept of the pagan concept of "Faith" in the Hebrew Scriptures. The true word is "Emunah" which entire books could be written about. In short it means a trust and reliance upon the Creator because you follow his eternal instructions. There is no concept of "Emunah" that is not a action in keeping Torah.

Paul in fact lies about what Moses said in Galatians. Paul also based his bullshit in Hab 2:4. No hebrew text on planet earth says "The Just shall live by faith"

The text say "The Just/Righteous shall live by their EMUNAH their FAITHFULNESS to the Creator" aka they keep the commandments and just like Duet. says it is accounted to them as righteousness. In context these are just people who keep the Creators commandments who are SCARED because of the events in the world around them. YHWH is saying "Trust me guys"


I trust you will not commit intellectual suicide and try and deny or argue emotionally the points I have raised.

I could list hundreds more! Paul of Tarsus is a Liar, and his letters are utter filth, and you have been brainwashed that they are the "word of God" because a bunch of child molesting pagan heathens who caused the dark ages and killed millions voted them into your Bible!

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1052634





for a long winded dipstick, you are so bravely wrong!
who do you think GOD is? what do you think GOD does all day?

well i can tell you what he did today, GOD that is, he watched you make a complete fool out of yourself. yes it has all be recorded and you will answer fully for such a stupid waste of time.

yea GOD would let a fake write 3/4 of the new testamant. you sure don't give GOD much credit and i bet your life or lack of life proves this. you proable do whatever you want to any and every body all day long while thinking you just tell GOD off on judgement day.

people like you are truely a waste of time. to discredit the bible is like shooting the pope or something. this utter lack of fear will be your end, you are no friend of any christian, so please put your bible down and STOP wasteing your time.

you have a few short months yet to live, please run fearless the other way or repeat and come back to GOD... start over
 Quoting: chipg


This is all emotional religious bullshit which has nothing to do with the subject at hand. Son which "New Testament" are you even talking about? You talking about the American Protestant Bible with 66 books? You talking about the American Catholic Bible with 77 books? Are you even aware that Bibles outside of America have up to 90 books in them? Are you even aware "Cannon" is different depending where you go?

No......didn't think so.

If you are to stupid to actually refute my post point by point, or to braindead to actually address the hundreds of points throughout this thread, then go away child and let the adults talk.

Please leave the religious bullshit out of this thread and be a man and face the issues.


Op I challenge you to actually Ban anyone on this thread who steps in with this foolishness and disrupts our debate. Let us try and leave the religious dolts like this guy out of this please!
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Re: For those who doubt the apostle paul
First of all, I am not Catholic nor am I a Mr. I am a YHVH fearing, loving, worshiping woman. Let's play.


Obviously you did not throughly read my post last night before you decided to ask the same questions that I already spelled out for you so, let's try again. It will help if you actually read it.


Yah, [yod-heh-vav-heh] the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob had created the Garden of Eden and in it He placed not only Adam and Eve, who was formed of Adam, but also the Tree of Life, Yahushua, and the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, Halal HaShatan, whom many today refer to as Satan or Lucifer. This is found in the book of Genesis, Chapter 2.

Yah is unchanging. He never changes. He is and does exactly the same today as He did in the beginning - blessings, judgments, mercy, curse and to the very end He still tests His people.

Malachi 3:6 - For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Most believers will say that they believe that Yah allowed His creation, His own perfect garden, to become corrupt for His purpose and to His own end but few will understand that He also allowed this corruption to enter into their Bibles and churches.

It is far easier to think that Yah has changed than it is to consider your own blindness and error. Just as Eve was [seemingly] so easily deceived, is it possible that maybe we too have bitten into the other side of that very same apple?


Satan's contract with the Most High

Those who know Him understand that Yah never does anything in secret. In contrast, Satan deals deceitfully and takes refuge under the cover of darkness. Satan has been granted the authority by Yah to deceive and manipulate whomever he will but thankfully, Satan too must announce his dealings - albeit in one crafty form or another.

Our Father made provisions for His people and always gives us the opportunity to make choices. I grieve for those who are falsely educated, lack discernment or just don't care. It is by this lack of knowledge and understanding that Yah's people are destroyed.

Some have accused me of wanting to remove Paul from the Bible. This could not be further from the truth. It is not possible to test truth against falsehood without pitting them against one another. All anyone need do is compare Paul's teachings to the rest of the Bible to see how it is a new doctrine.

Paul himself tells us in 2 Timothy 3:16 that "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for [not only] doctrine, [but also] for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness."


Books known to be authored by Paul and Pauline Disciples
Luke, Pauline Disciple
Acts
Romans
1 Corinthians
2 Corinthians
Galatians
Ephesians
Colossians
1 Thessalonians
2 Thessalonians
1 Timothy
2 Timothy
Titus
Philemon
Hebrews
1 Peter, Unknown/Controversial
2 Peter, Unknown/Controversial


There are only 12 Apostles

Revelation 21:14 - And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the lamb.

Acts 9:26 - And when Paul was come to Jerusalem, he assayed to join himself to the disciples: but they were all afraid of him, and believed not that he was a disciple.

Contrary to the books written by Paul or his disciples, the new heaven and new earth will not contain Paul's name as an apostle.

Yahushua's Apostles were as follows:

Found in Matthew 10:2-4, Mark 3:16-19, Luke 6:12-19 and Acts 1:13

Simon who is called Peter
Andrew his brother
James the son of Zebedee
John his brother
Philip
Bartholomew
Thomas
Matthew the publican
James the son of Alphaeus
Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus
Simon the Canaanite
Mattathias who replaced Judas Iscariot

Paul's name is NOT one of them!


Requirements for apostleship as laid out by Yahushua himself

Acts 1:21-22 - Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that He was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of His resurrection. And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.

Acts 10:39-42 - Spoken by the Apostle Peter,
And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree: Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly; Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead. And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.

Notice two requirements which automatically disqualify Paul for Apostleship:
Accompany Yahushua and His apostles from the beginning of His earthly ministry until His resurrection
Witness the resurrection of Yahushua

Paul does NOT meet a single one of the requirements!

This eliminates any future day apostleship. Sorry Paul, you were not with Yahushua from his baptism until his ascension and viewing a disembodied light which blinded your eyesight so that you could not see for three, (3) days does not count. [See Fact or fiction? Paul gets confused about the most important day of his life.]

Contrary to blinding one's vision:
Revelation 3:18 - I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

Yah doesn't blind us. He gives us vision to see clearly!


Paul - A Pharisee and the root of the whore of Babylon

Paul was a Pharisee, Philippians 3.4:6 and a persecutor of Yah's people. Galatians 1:13-15

Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees. Matthew 16:6

How is it that ye do not understand that I spake [it] not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees? Matthew 16:11

And he charged them, saying, Take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and [of] the leaven of Herod. Mark 8:15

Yahushua did not mince words in His warnings. It is not only implausible but outrageous to assert that this murdering Pharisee could possibly ever become an Apostle of Yahushua.

In Revelation 17:1-2, Yahushua calls the last days churches the "whores of Babylon." Why? Because they are filled with corruption, 501(c)(3) government regulated corporate status, deceptions and lies.

Christian churches today are based on false and unsound doctrine contrived by Paul's blasphemy and very much leading Yah's people, Yisrael, astray.

Leviticus 26:4-6 - But if ye will not hearken unto me, and will not do all these commandments; and if you shall despise my statutes, or if your soul abhor my judgments, so that ye will not do all my commandments, but that ye break my covenant, I also will do this unto you; I will even appoint over you terror, consumption, and the burning ague that shall consume the eyes, and cause sorrow of heart and ye shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it.

Through Paul's blatant fallacy of presenting us with a new warm and fuzzy gospel, teaching that we cannot possibly follow or no longer have a need to do the very things we were commanded by Yah and exampled through Yahushua we are seeing more and more terror in the world with more surely to follow. We have and continue sowing seeds in vain and are enduring grievous sorrow. Can you not see the warning, curse and judgment?

Commandments and statutes are a blessing given to us by our creator and Father to ensure our prosperity, health and happiness. Paul has knowingly and cunningly told us that there is no need of circumcision, that it is good to eat things sacrificed to idols as long as we don't *feel it is a sin and that there is no need to observe the weekly and yearly Sabbaths. The churches have taught that Yah, our Father's perpetual and everlasting holy feasts are Jewish festivals. Huh? They aren't Jewish feasts at all, they are for every one of Yah's people.

In The letter written to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans found in Revelation 3:14-22, we learn that these latter day churches are most certainly not of Yah. To understand this with clarity, one must realize that Yahushua is standing outside the door of the church. Yahushua is not inside them, Paul is.

Revelation 3:20 - Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.


One does not stand inside and knock to get in, they knock from outside. Period. Anyone, including your pastor, reverend, minister, etc., who says, "What this really means is... " and generally ends with something along the lines of "Jesus is knocking on your hearts let him in." May I suggest to you that you reread the scripture. It says this is a letter to the church.


Jacob prophesied of both Messiah and Paul

In Genesis 49:1, 8-12, 27-28, we read:
And Jacob called unto his sons, and said: gather yourselves together, that I may tell you that which shall befall you in the latter days. Judah, thee shall thy brethren praise: Thy hand shall be on the neck of thine enemies; Thy father's sons shall bow down before thee. Judah is a lion's whelp; From the prey, my son, thou art gone up: He stooped down, he crouched as a lion, And as a lioness; who shall rouse him up? The scepter shall not depart from Judah, Nor the ruler's staff from between his feet, Until Shiloh come: And unto him shall the obedience of the peoples be. Binding his foal unto the vine, And his ass's colt unto the choice vine; He hath washed his garments in wine, And his vesture in the blood of grapes: His eyes shall be red with wine, And his teeth white with milk. Benjamin is a wolf that raveneth: in the morning she shall devour the prey, and at even he shall divide the spoil. All these are the twelve tribes of Israel: and this is it that their father spake unto them and blessed them; every one according to his blessings he blessed them.
Judah is a lion's whelp; [Yahushua. Revelation 5:5]
Benjamin is a wolf that raveneth [Paul is of the tribe of Benjamin. Philippians 3:5 ]
Just as there were 12 Apostles, there are 12 Tribes of Israel.



Paul is of the tribe of Benjamin

Paul states in Philippians 3:5 - Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee.
1 Chronicles 7 records the lineage of the tribe of Benjamin which Paul embraced as his own.


Fe-Fi-Fo-Fum

In addition to being cursed to wolfdom, to understand more of the negative connotation associated with Paul's ancestry, we must consider the phrase "mighty men."

Genesis 6:4 - There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Genesis 10:8 tells us of how Nimrod, the son of Cush, likewise a cursed grandson of Ham, became mighty [opposition] before Yah.

In 1 Samuel, chapter 17, we learn about Goliath, a mighty giant whose height was six cubits and a span; approximately 10 feet 6 inches.




GIANTS

ji'-ants The word appears in the King James Version as the translation of the Hebrew words Nephilim, Genesis 6:4; Numbers 13:33,; Repha'im, Deuteronomy 2:11,20; 3:11,13; Joshua 12:4,; Rapha', 1 Chronicles 20:4,6,8, or Raphah, 2 Samuel 21:16, 18, 20, 22; in one instance of Gibbor, literally, "mighty one," Job 16:14.

In the first two cases the Revised Version, British and American, changes "giants" into the Hebrew words Nephilim, nephilim and Rephaim, repha'im, respectively. The Nephilim of Genesis 6:4 are not to be confounded with the "mighty men" subsequently described as the offspring of the unlawful marriages, of "the sons of God" and "the daughters of men." It is told that they overspread the earth prior to these unhallowed unions. That the word, whatever its etymology, bears the sense of men of immense stature is evident from the later passages. Numbers 13:33. The same is true of the Rephaim, as shown by the instance of Og, Deuteronomy 3:11; Joshua 12:4. There is no doubt about the meaning of the word in the ease of the giants mentioned in 2 Samuel 21 and 1 Chronicles 20. [1]


Beware the big bad wolf

Ezekiel 22:27 - Her princes in the midst thereof [are] like wolves ravening the prey, to shed blood, [and] to destroy souls, to get dishonest gain.

Matthew 7:15 - Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. [Jacob called Benjamin a ravening wolf].

John 10:12 - But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.

Jude 1:4 - For there are certain men crept in unawares [Paul], who were before of old ordained to this condemnation [Tribe of Benjamin, Genesis 49:27-28], ungodly men [Pharisees, mighty giants, etc.], turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. [Paul denies Yahushua in Romans 8:3 and Philippians 2:7.]

Additional wolf warnings can be found in: Matthew 7:15, Matthew 10:16, John 10:11-15 and Acts 20:28-31.


Paul/Balaam parallel

Numbers chapters 22 and 23 in a nutshell:
Balaam was a soothsayer who was hired by Moab to curse Israel, yet prayed to Yah and was told to bless Israel instead . On his way to Moab the angel of Yah stood in his way to oppose him and Balaam and his companions had a "Road to Moab" experience. In this experience Balaam became aware that he was unjustly persecuting his donkey and said, "I have sinned." Balaam ended up blessing Israel several times to the dismay of those who had hired him.

However, the next time we hear of Balaam, in Numbers 31:8, he is slain with the Midianites. We find out why later in verse 16.

Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against Yah in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of Yah. Balaam was converted and blessed, yet fell away and caused the children of Israel to commit trespass against Yah.

We have to go to the New Testament to find out more specifically what sins were involved. Balaam is referred to in 2 Peter, Jude and Revelation. The verses with the most information is in Revelation 2:12-15.

And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write; These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges; I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth. But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication. So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans [n.- lay person, heretic,] which thing I hate.

Who in the NT could Messiah have been warning against that would be a type of Balaam? Paul unjustly persecuted Yah's people, had a conversion experience on the Road to Damascus, and intermingled the words of Yah with disinformation. We can take this parallel further to see that Paul made statements to the effect that fornication and eating food offered to idols are lawful to him.

1 Corinthians 6:12 - All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. [including Yah.]

1 Corinthians 8:7 - Howbeit [there is] not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat [it] as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled. But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse.

Yahushua never taught this and like it or not, it is another gospel.


Paul's phony bologna signs and wonders
Paul came with signs and wonders. We are told to flee from such antichrists rather than accepting them! Sadly, many accept Paul's Gospel and reject the words of Messiah.


Deuteronomy 13:1-5 - If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them; Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul. Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep His Commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve Him, and cleave unto Him. And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the LORD your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the LORD thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee.

Paul was not martyred, he was executed for speaking against Yah.

Matthew 7:15 - Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

[Referring back to tribe of Benjamin in Genesis 49:27 - Benjamin shall ravin as a wolf: in the morning he shall devour the prey, and at night he shall divide the spoil .]

Matthew 24:11 - And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

The immutable truth is that Yah does not change which means that the Mosaic Law and Torah are not done away with as Pauline Doctrine would have us believe.
Yahushua's words:

Matthew 24:24 - For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Matthew 24:26 - Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, [he is] in the secret chambers; believe [it] not.
Paul's words

Romans 15:19 - Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.

Galatians 1:6 - I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

Here Paul is getting a nose snorting chuckle that we were/are so easily conned into following him rather than Yah.
Yahushua's words

Revelation 2:2 - I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not and hast found them liars.

Paul is the wolf of the tribe of Benjamin, a deceiver, one who would show great signs and wonders, one who would get his revelation in the desert, and one who would be a self-proclaimed Apostle, but indeed a fantastic liar.


Paul the liar

Who but a liar repeatedly claims he is not?

Romans 3:4 - Let God be true, and every man a liar.

Let it be understood that by saying that every man a liar, Paul was including not only himself but Yahushua, the son of Yah as well.

Romans 9:1,2 - I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost, that I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.

2 Corinthians 11:30-31 - If I must needs glory, I will glory of the things which concern mine infirmities. The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is blessed for evermore, knoweth that I lie not.

Galatians 1:20 - Now the things which I write unto you, behold, before God, I lie not.

1 Timothy 2:3-7 - For this [is] good and acceptable in the sight of Jesus our Saviour; who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Jesus Christ; who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle,, I speak the truth in Christ, [and] lie not; a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.

1 Corinthians15:5 - Paul wrote the lie, "Christ, first, appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve."

The unified doctrine as recorded in Matthew 28:9, Mark 16:9, Luke 24:10 and John 20:14,15 emphasize that Yahushua the Messiah first appeared to the women.

1 Corinthians 15:6 - Paul wrote the lie "After that he appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time."

Acts 1:15 - But the Apostle Peter testifies that "the number of names altogether were about a hundred and twenty disciples."

1 Corinthians 15:8 - Paul wrote this lie too "and last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared to me also."


Fact or fiction? Paul gets confused about the most important day of his life

Here are the two very different accounts of Paul's conversion by his own testimony neither of which qualify him for apostleship.

Acts 9:1-19 - And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven: And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Paul, Paul, why persecutest thou me? And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do. And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man. And Paul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus. And he was three days without sight, and neither did eat nor drink.

Make no mistake about it, Paul tells you exactly who and what the blinding light was in 2 Corinthians 11. I encourage you to read it in full and with clear eyes.

Paul's angel of light blinds people - Yah opens them!

2 Corinthians 11:13-14 - For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

Luke 10:18 - Yahushua said to them "I saw Satan fall, like lightning, from heaven."

Acts 9:18 - Paul had something like scales [serpent scales] fall from his eyes.

Galatians 1:12,15-17 - I did not receive it [the Gospel] from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ But when God, who set me apart from birth and called me by his grace, was pleased to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not consult any man, nor did I go up to Jerusalem to see those who were apostles before I was, but I went immediately into Arabia and later returned to Damascus.

Bare in mind, one of the requirements for apostleship is that you must have accompanied Yahushua's twelve disciples in person. In the above scripture, we see that although Paul has the opportunity to consult with the true apostles, he does not even make an attempt to do so.


Test the spirits

Always test the spirits, John teaches you how.

1 John 4:1-3 - Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby know ye the Spirit of Yah: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.


Paul fails the test by denying Christ in the flesh

Romans 8:3 - For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

likeness [lahyk-nis] -n[2]
a representation, picture, or image, esp. a portrait: to draw a good likeness of Churchill.
the state or fact of being like: I can't get over your likeness to my friend.
the semblance or appearance of something; guise: to assume the likeness of a swan.

Origin: bef. 950; ME liknesse, OE licnes, var. of gelicnes. See alike, -ness>

-Synonyms
resemblance, similitude.
shape, form.

An outward or token appearance or form that is deliberately misleading; he hoped his claims would have a semblance of authenticity; he tried to give his falsehood the gloss of moral sanction; the situation soon took on a different color.

guise [gahyz] noun, verb, guised, guis-ing. -n[3]
general external appearance; aspect; semblance: an old principle in a new guise.
assumed appearance or mere semblance: under the guise of friendship.
style of dress: in the guise of a shepherd.
Archaic. manner; mode.

- verb, used with object
to dress; attire: children guised as cowboys.
-verb, used without object,
Scot. and North England. to appear or go in disguise.
Origin: 1175-1225; n., ME g,u,ise < OF < Gmc; see wise2:, v., ME gisen, deriv. of the n.

-Synonyms
form, shape. See appearance.

For Paul, you are either in the spirit or in the flesh. The latter he equates with sin, Galatians 5:5; 16-20. So, Paul is saying that Yahushua only appeared to come in the sinful human flesh. In Paul's theology of original sin, Romans chapter 5, this is the same thing as saying that Yahushua did not truly come in the flesh.

Philippians 2:7 - Paul once again says that Yahushua came in the likeness of men and not in the flesh of sin.

docetism [doh-see-tiz-uhm, doh-si-tiz-] -n. [4]
an early Christian doctrine that the sufferings of Christ were apparent and not real and that after the crucifixion he appeared in a spiritual body.
Roman Catholic Church. an ancient heresy asserting that Yahushua lacked full humanity.

The word became flesh, John 1:14, not a likeness thereof!


Paul's admission of parting with the Apostles

Jude 1:19 - These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.

When Paul says that they, the apostles, seemed to be pillars in Galatians 2:9, Paul is denying the fact that they are apostles and refuses to listen to them., Galatians 2:2-6

Galatians 2:7 - Paul boasts of his failure to take any information and blatantly states that his own doctrine is contrary to that of the apostles hand picked by Yahushua! In fact, he claimed that his failure to do so was proof that his message was from Yah.

John, one of the "seeming pillars" and true apostle says this :
1 John 4:6 - We [the apostles] are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

Paul fits 1 John 2:19 - They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Because he left their group. Paul spins this in that the apostles would "alone" to focus on the Jews and Paul would "alone" focus on the gentiles. Galatians 2:9


Robbing Peter to pay Paul

Acts 15:7 - And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.

The disputing was because Peter would not forfeit his given command to teach the gentiles over to Paul. Peter was adamant about this and would not/could not disobey Yah in this matter.


Peter's ambiguous warning

First let me begin by stating that I not convinced that the actual Apostle Peter is the author of the entire, if any at all, of the books by the same name. I would encourage you to do your own research and discern whether this rings true for yourselves.

Secondly, this is the one and only scripture in the entire Bible that can ever so lightly be taken in Paul's defense but can it really?

Either way, let's take what we were given and disect it. It is ambiguous at best.

2 Peter 3:13-18 - Nevertheless we, [the twelve Apostles hand picked by Yahushua] according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. Wherefore, beloved, [reader] seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of Him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

Paul says it isn't possible in Romans 3:10.

And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him; hath written unto you;

Wisdom given by whom? It doesn't say that the wisdom was provided by Yah.

As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, [wrest: verb- to get by effort, scripture twisting.] as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Ye therefore, beloved, [reader] seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own steadfastness. But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever.

The one word "beloved" having been either inserted or mistranslated becomes misleading to those without discernment. Take that lone word out and the passage reads as follows:

Paul, according to the wisdom of the Pharisee, will say things that are jacked up and completely different from what we have told you. Because you don't truly understand your God or of His ways and His laws which Yahushua and we, all the real Apostles, strictly follow; you will find yourself in deep s_it. Look people, we're telling you about this now so you don't screw up later. Pay attention to what we are telling you and heed our warning.

Furthermore, if you notice the underlined phrase, "lest ye also," ask yourself whom that "also" is referring to. Isn't this scripture talking about Paul or is there a non-existent segway that I'm missed?


Paul teaches against Torah - Another gospel

If you read all of Acts 15, take note of the swift intervention by James telling "all the people listen to me" and not to listen to Barnabas and Paul who attempted to show "signs and wonders" to deceive, if possible, even the elect exactly as Yahushua warned in Matthew 24:24.

Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.

And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, men and brethren, hearken unto me: Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written, After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things. Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world. Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: but that we write unto them [and not Paul the liar] that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath day.


It is Paul who confuses the Sabbath and Yah's holy days

John 5:46,47 - For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?


The Sabbath according to Moses

Exodus 20:8-9 - Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work.

Exodus 23:12 - Six days you are to do your work, but on the seventh day you shall cease from labor in order that your ox and your donkey may rest, and the son of your female slave, as well as your stranger, may refresh themselves.

Exodus 31:15 - For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a Sabbath of complete rest, holy to the Lord; whoever does any work on the Sabbath day shall surely be put to death.

Deuteronomy 5:12 - Observe the Sabbath day to keep it holy, as the Lord your God commanded you.

Leviticus 26:2 - You shall keep My Sabbaths and reverence My sanctuary; I am the Lord.


The Sabbath according to Paul

Romans 14:5 - One man regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Let each man be fully convinced in his own mind.

Colossians 2:16 - Therefore let no one act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day.

[Note: I would recommend you take a second look at Isaiah 66.]

Where is it written, that we will be punished for obeying the laws of Torah? Or that we "cannot possibly obey" Torah as Yahushua and the Apostles did?

Satan, our adversary, wants us to ignore the Torah. If we think Eve goofed over such a simple thing, then we should look at how we might find ourselves in the very same situation. Satan is an expert and compulsive liar, and he has multitudes following his masquerading messengers of lawlessness. [Say that 10 times real fast.]

"Legalism" and the accompanying criticisms cannot be found anywhere in the texts. It is the merchants who say it is permissible to rest on any given day as you sit in your Government and IRS approved 501(c)(3) Sun-god-day assembly; feeling good about yourself for contributing to their wonderful work. They are the priests of Baal who lead you astray worshiping the pagan's god, Amen Ra on Baal's Day.

One only has to start obeying the 4th Commandment, the 7th day Shabbat and watch how those professing to be the Lord's people react to you. The 7th day Sabbath is the sign of the Eternal Covenant which I will discuss shortly.

By choosing the 7th day Sabbath to rest, without fail, you can be marked with the Sign of The Eternal Covenant., Genesis 2:2, Exodus. 31:12-17, Ezekiel. 20:12, Isaiah 56:4-8.


Paul says that sin is only sin if you think it is a sin

Huh !?! You've got to be kidding me.

Romans 14:14 - I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

1 Corinthians 3:10 - According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, [A Freemason] I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

Acts 4:11-12 - He, Yahushua, is the stone you builders [Freemasons] rejected which has become the capstone. Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.

Paul was a Freemason and Acts 18:3 tells us that Paul was a tent maker who just happens to claim he had laid the foundation.

Funny, I thought that Yahushua was the one who laid it.

Paul, however, did get one thing correct here when he said, "But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon".

I hope you all understand that tents are temporary shelter.


Paul teaches yet another new gospel

Paul took away from David's words of, Psalms 68:18, Thou hast ascended on high, thou hast led captivity captive: thou hast "received gifts" for men; yea, for the rebellious also, that the LORD God might dwell among them" and changed them to read...



He "gave gifts" to men, in Ephesians 4:8, Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

That's a huge difference in meaning!


And another new gospel

Paul teaches against circumcision.

Acts 16:1 - Then came he to Derbe and Lystra: and, behold, a certain disciple was there, named Timotheus, the son of a certain woman, which was a Jewess, and believed; but his father was a Greek: Which was well reported of by the brethren that were at Lystra and Iconium. Him would Paul have to go forth with him; and took and circumcised him because of the Jews which were in those quarters: for they knew all that his father was a Greek.

Galatians 5:2 - Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Genesis 17:10 - This [is] my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.

Exodus 12:48 - And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof.

Hmmm... YHVH said you should, Paul did it, however Paul preached against it.


Again, another gospel

Paul advocates eating the unclean.

Yah showed Peter visions of clean and unclean foods and he even converted Cornelius in Acts chapter 10. As it turned out, and rarely, if ever, taught in any Pauline church that this was in reality a division of "mankind" being clean; a reference to half-man by fornication with fallen angels but that's a whole other subject. You can read about them in Genesis 6, Daniel 4 and Jude 1:6. See Chapter Six - Giants, Nephilim and The Annunaki.

Nevertheless I have a few things against you, because you allow that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, to teach and beguile my servants to commit sexual immorality and to eat things sacrificed to idols., Revelation 2:20.

This flies directly in the face of what Paul taught in, 1 Corinthians 8:1-13 and 10:23-33.

In Paul's world, the sin of it all is only in one's head. But I digress. Had Yahushua indeed pronounced all foods clean, Peter would have been there and learned of it!

Paul has effectively done away with Mosaic Law - Yah's law. See Chapter 9 - Sin is The Trasgression of The Law.

Isaiah 14:13, 14 - For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.


Preparing for trial in Ephesus

In 2 Corinthians 1:8-9 and 2 Timothy 1:15-18, Paul throws a pity party and whimpers and whines of really bad things that happened to him in Asia.

Acts 19:8-10 - And he went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of Yah. [Disputing things of Yah !?!] But when divers [many who knew Yah] were hardened, [against Paul's false teachings] and believed not, [They didn't believe Paul's B.S.] but spake evil [cursed Paul of blasphemy] of that way before the multitude, he departed from them, and separated the disciples, disputing daily in the school of one Tyrannus. And this continued by the space of two years; so that all they which dwelt in Asia heard the word of the Lord Jesus, both Jews and Greeks.

When rightly in Yah, as the Apostles most assuredly were, there would not be division and disputing such as this.

1 Corinthians 1:10 - Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

This coming from the same Paul who frightened the Apostles and separated himself when they believed him not.

The first portion of James chapter 2 is a court trial. Notice the language of trials: judges, 2:4, judgment seats, 2:6, law, 2:8, 9, 10, 12, transgressors, 2:9, 11, guilty, 2:10, judged, 2:12, judgment, 2:13.

Then James confronts the basis of Paul's faith based gospel in verse 2:14.

Think of the Parable of the Sheep and Goats (Matthew 25) as you read about the charity. Then James confronts Paul's use of the example of Abraham's faith based righteousness, Romans 4:3, Galatians 3:6, and comes up with not faith alone, but faith and works. Then James 3, he gives more examples of works being required for righteousness.


Letter to The Church of Ephesus

Revelation 2:1-5 - Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks; I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars: [John was talking about Paul who was tried in Ephesus!] And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted. Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.


Paul plainly tells you that he's corrupt

Here Paul is now [rightly] saying that Yahushua was not the only blameless person but those who follow the law were also blameless but attempting to spin it to say that by murdering people is to him a fine and blameless act.

But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ.

HaShatan/Satan and his minions are the ones who lost everything and it is Satan who wishes to "win" the title of Christ - If Paul were really saved by grace, he should not have to "win" anything.

In Matthew 22:37-40 (quoting Deuteronomy 6:4-9), Yahushua said, "Thou shall love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it. Thou shall love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."

The first 4 of the 10 Commandments teach us how to love Yah
Have no other gods before me
Make no likeness nor bow down to any
Do not take His name in vain
Remember the Sabbath

Followed by 5-10th Commandments which teach us how to love our neighbor.
Honor father and mother
Do not murder
Do not commit adultery
Do not steal
Do not bare false witness against your neighbor
Do not covet that which is your neighbor's


Paul says that it is himself that is your father
Yahushua said:

Matthew 23:9 - Do not call anyone on earth your father; for one is your father, He who is in heaven.
Paul says:

1 Corinthians 4:15-16 - For though ye have unclean of itself ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel. Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.

Excuse me Paul, you want us to follow you? You have not begotten us and you certainly are not our are not our father.


Paul clearly taught that we are saved by being passive beneficiaries. This is hogwash!

I [Paul] testify to the gospel of the grace of Yah [another gospel] all things are lawful. Acts 20:24, 2 Corinthians 11:4, 1 Corinthians 10:23

Yahushua's Apostles taught in Jude 1:4 and 1 John 2:22 - Perverting the grace of our Lord into lawlessness even denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.


Saved by grace
Yahushua's words:

Matthew 23:13 - But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
Paul's words:

Philippians 3:3-8 - For we are the circumcision, [Yahushua never taught this] God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the [righteousness which is in the law], blameless.

Paul started the Christian Church, teaching that we are saved by grace. The true Apostles also mentioned Yah's mercy and grace, nonetheless, they still always observed Torah laws including the Mosaic ones. So just where does grace begin?

Genesis 6:7-9 - And the Lord said, "I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I regret that I have made them". But Noah found grace in the eyes of The Lord. This is the genealogy of Noah. Noah was a just man, perfect in his generations. Noah walked with God.

Genesis 7:1 - And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.

No one else on earth found grace or mercy from Yah except one man and his family because he did not have [alien blood coursing through his veins ("perfect in his generations" Genesis 6:9)] and was "just and righteous!" Contrary to Paul's doctrine, becoming a beneficiary of Yah's grace has everything to do with works. Grace and works are not mutually exclusive. They are inextricably connected to one another. There is more.

Psalm 84:11 - For God is a sun and shield; The Lord will give grace and glory; no good thing will He withhold from those who walk uprightly.

Exodus 20: 5,6 - For I, God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My Commandments.

Psalm 103:17,18 - But the mercy of God is from everlasting to everlasting on those who fear Him, and His righteousness to children's children, to such as keep His covenant, and to those who remember His Commandments to do them.


The Church of Paul

Acts 13:1 -Now in the church that was in Antioch there were certain prophets and Paul.

The Disciples of Paul were first called Christians in Antioch. Acts 11:26.

Paul was arrested and a lawyer made accusations against him before Felix. Part of that dialog describes the sect which Paul was a member of: He is a ringleader of the Nazarene sect, and even tried to desecrate the Temple; so we seized him. Acts 24:5


The word Christian is pagan to the core.

YHVH picked the land of Israel to be his land. Yahushua was Hebrew. It really isn't that difficult to apply some common sense here. Followers of Yah need to understand that their stated beliefs are founded upon things that are Hebrew. Period. From the beginning, Christian has been a Greek pagan term.
Chrestos Mithras - pure, sacred, good, holy., Roman meaning was interchangeable: "good Mithras" or "holy Mithras".
Christ Helios - Mandaean - sun worship.
Chreistos Osiris, Alexandrian - Osiris/sun worship.



Acts 28:22 - While Paul was arrested and taken to Rome, he was kept in the home of a centurion. He called for the chief Yahudim, and they had heard of this sect, and said to Paul, "But we desire to hear from you, what you think: for as concerning this sect, we know that everywhere it is spoken against."

It was spoken against for a darn good reason. It was heresy! What would a bunch of Israelites who practice Torah and follow Yahushua Messiah be doing with a Greek term used by Pagans as a label for themselves? Are we to search out the Greco-Roman roots or the Hebrew origins of our faith? One of them hinders and clouds our understanding and the other is essential to it!


The thorn in Paul's side

Paul's thorn was not in his side, it was a demonic possession inside!

2 Corinthians 12:7 - And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in [inside] the flesh [body/self], to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

Really? The supposed "most revered apostle ever" was demon possessed? Weren't the Apostles told to cast out demons rather than make excuses to let them waste space in cohabitation?

This idiot [Paul] wants us to honestly believe that Yah placed a demon inside of him? Paul's reasoning- get this... "Lest he be exalted above measure". Give me a break!


A Disinformation Agent

What is a Disinformation Agent?

Disinformation is false or inaccurate information that is spread deliberately. It may include the distribution of forged documents, manuscripts, and photographs, or spreading malicious rumors and fabricated intelligence. Disinformation should not be confused with misinformation, information that is unintentionally false.

In espionage or military intelligence, disinformation is the deliberate spreading of false information to mislead an enemy as to one's position or course of action. In politics, disinformation is the deliberate attempt to deflect voter support of an opponent, disseminating false statements of innuendo based on the candidates vulnerabilities as revealed by opposition research. In both cases, it also includes the distortion of true information in such a way as to render it useless.

Disinformation techniques may also be found in commerce and government, used to try to undermine the position of a competitor. It is an act of deception and blatant false statements to convince someone of an untruth.

Unlike traditional propaganda and Big Lie techniques designed to engage emotional support, disinformation is designed to manipulate the audience at the rational level by either discrediting conflicting information or supporting false conclusions.

Another technique of concealing facts, or censorship, is also used if the group can effect such control. When channels of information cannot be completely closed, they can be rendered useless by filling them with disinformation, effectively lowering their signal-to-noise ratio and discrediting the opposition by association with a lot of easily-disproved false claims.

A common disinformation tactic is to mix some truth and observation with false conclusions and lies, or to reveal part of the truth while presenting it as the whole [5]



Here is but one example:

We are not to glory in the cross, death/mass, but the resurrection of Yahushua; nonetheless, Paul gets it wrong again and again goes as far as saying that it is he/himself that died for us.

Galatians 6:14 - But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

1 Corinthians 1:31 - Just as it is written, let him who boasts, boast in the Lord.


The Mocking by Satan

Good and evil are not equal forces; evil is an absence or a twisting of good. Satan cannot create; he can only mock.
God creates worship; Satan mocks with idolatry.
God creates procreation and love; Satan mocks with adultery.
God creates truth; Satan mocks with lies.



Evil has no substance or creation of its own; it exists in terms of good, twisted, distorted, absent. Good exists on its own terms; it existed long before evil, and it will exist long after evil has no existence save torment in the lake of fire. But then why do good and evil fight? Evil fights good because it stands in rebellion against good. Good has its own purposes, and because evil stands in the way, fights evil as an obstruction. It is not defined by this fight, and will not lose anything of itself when the last battle is over; in the New Jerusalem, we will see good in its truest and purest form.

A little leaven leavens the whole lump, which is why faith must be built from the beginning, not on heresy but on the foundation of Yah.[6]


Yah does not change!

There is no "new covenant," Yahushua was renewing the original covenant! And Paul showed his hatred for Yah, The Father by teaching the lie:

Galatians 5:14. Romans 13:9 - For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: thou shall love thy neighbour as thyself.

This equates to dismissing any and all love for Yah.


Admitting guilt of lying

Romans 3:7 - For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?

Philippians 1:18 - In every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Yahushua is proclaimed, and in that I rejoice.

Once again admitting guilt of lying

Pretense. noun - pretending or feigning; make-believe: a lie.



And then there is this...

Galatians 1:18 - If we or an angel from heaven preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you let him be a curse.

This passage is actually tri fold. Not only is it a warning to examine the authors of the Bible itself. Good to do indeed. Secondly, it is a lame attempt by Paul to deflect examination of his lies. Last but not least, Paul is actually placing a curse on anyone who does not believe or speaks against him, et al. Let's try looking at it again to discern what it is really telling us.

If we [Paul and his merry band of freaks] or an angel from heaven preach any other gospel to you than what we [Paul and Co.] have preached to you let him be a curse.

Satan has always cursed the things of Yah so this should come as no surprise and angels from heaven are angels who have not fallen. In no way would they preach against Yah. They would however preach against a false prophet.


If you are familiar with the story of Job, you know that Satan has to in one way or another announce his dealings; offering us a choice. We call this "free will." We are explicitly told to test the spirit's and should not be ashamed to do so, even when it includes the very authors of our Bible.

John 5:43, I have come in My Father's Name, and you do not receive Me; if another shall come in his own name, you will receive him. [Paul]


A very common theme in Paul's writings

Paul tends to say things that sound all warm and fuzzy but later admits deceit, cunning and craftiness.

Nearly the whole of the New Testament today were books written by Paul, canonized by the Vatican. Yah allowed it to serve His own purposes. Just as He allowed the serpent to beguile Eve and Adam who was with her in the garden of Eden.

The next time you are sitting in your church, pay close attention; are you worshiping Yah or are you worshiping Paul. Try it again the following week. I would bet my life that 99% of you will not be able to deny that you are learning all things Paul.


A little Paul humor - Paul's folly or random quotes - Take your pick

Note: I know that coming to this realization is not an easy thing to do. It requires us to examine the very foundation of our beliefs; views and traditions that some of us have held for a very long time. In all honesty, it took me about 2 years to deal with the fact that I was lied to but I also tell you from the bottom of my heart; once you get it, everything starts to make sense and fulfillment and real faith become unshakable. Ever praying and asking for discernment, deal with it and move on as quickly as you can.



Paul said in 2 Corinthians 11:16-18 - I repeat: no one should think that I am a fool. But if you do, at least accept me as a fool, just so I will have a little to boast of. Of course what I am saying now is not what the Lord would have me say; in this matter of boasting I am really talking like a fool. But since there are so many who boast for merely human reasons, I will do the same.

Ephesians 4:26 - Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
Ephesians 4:31 - Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:

Gee guys, I know I told you to be angry back there in Eph. 4:26 but now I've changed my mind just 5 verses later.

1 Corinthians 7:12 - But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: ...

UNCLEAN CREATURES TO BE AVOIDED:

Leviticus 11:30 - And the ferret, and the chameleon, and the lizard, and the snail, and the mole.

Chameleons are noted for changing with its surroundings!

1 Corinthians 9:20 - And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;

1 Corinthians 9:21 - To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

1 Corinthians 9:22 - To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all [men], that I might by all means save some.



2 Corinthians 11:8 - I robbed other churches by taking wages from them to serve you.

2 Corinthians 12:16 - But be that as it may, I did not burden you myself; nevertheless, crafty fellow that I am, I took you in by deceit.

2 Corinthians 13:1 - This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.

Ha-ha. Paul's mouth, three times coming to the Corinthians, equals 3 witnesses!



1 Corinthians 11:26 - For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

Maybe someone should advertise the fact that Yahushua is NOT dead ... so neither is YHVH's word or law(s)!

Matthew 24:35 - Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Luke 16:17 - And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

Luke 24:5 - Why seek ye the living among the dead?

Mark 12:27 - He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.



Romans 7:13-22- Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Paul: I am sold to my second master: SIN

For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

Paul: I know what is right, I just don't do it. Instead I serve a second master.

If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

What Paul?!?

Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Paul: Here's a great excuse everyone: It's not you that does it, it's the sin itself!

For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

Paul: I know that I shouldn't sin, but I don't have the self-control to do anything about it. **See The thorn in Paul's side

For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

Paul: I chose evil over good every time.

Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Paul: Like I said, sin has a complete grip on my actions.

I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

Paul: So then ...good = evil?

3 John 1:11 - Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God.


Malachi 2:17 - Ye have wearied the LORD with your words. Yet ye say, Wherein have we wearied him? When ye say, Every one that doeth evil is good in the sight of the LORD, and he delighteth in them; or, Where is the God of judgment?

Jeremiah 16:19 - O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit.





Jeremiah 50:6-7 - My people hath been lost sheep: their shepherds have caused them to go astray, they have turned them away on the mountains: they have gone from mountain to hill, they have forgotten their restingplace. All that found them have devoured them: and their adversaries said, We offend not, because they have sinned against the LORD, the habitation of justice, even the LORD, the hope of their fathers.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: For those who doubt the apostle paul
Peter warned that the meaning of Paul's writings would be distorted by the error of Lawless men. 2 Peter 3:11-18 NIV

I see in the middle part of Acts 21 that this distortion was already occuring back in the day. Paul even goes out of his way to keep the Law by participating in a Nazirite vow. I believe Paul to be righteous man in the eyes of Father after believing in Messiah. It's simply the meaning of his writings that have been distorted and a religion built upon them. However, Messiah said his church would be built upon Peter.

Ask yourself this question: What group of people oppose keeping the Law (making them Lawless) and also teach Paul's writings? I believe it's modern traditional christianity.....the teachers of Lawlessness.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1441968


I am going to be blunt here although I am happy you do keep Torah, but this needs to be said.

This is Messianic nonsense. (I fell for this myself one time and used to argue the same thing!)

You never in your life thought Paul was "Pro-Torah" until some Messy-antic (a christian playing dress up Jew) told you Paul was really pro-Torah!

Think about this.

#1 2 Peter is a forgery, so it is foolish to even talk about it.

But for the sake of argument.

Why in the world, would "Jesus" or Peter, James, and John, KNOWING THAT PAUL DESTROYED THOSE WHO ARE UNLEARNED IN TORAH, AND THAT PAUL CAUSED THOSE WHO ARE UNLEARNED IN TORAH TO FORSAKE THE LAW OF MOSES, WOULD THEY EVER SEND PAUL TO THE MOST UNLEARNED AND UNSTABLE PEOPLE IN TORAH ON EARTH......THE GENTILES!

Think long and hard about that. The entire thing makes no sense.

#2 most importantly. 2nd Peter does not somehow magically correct all the errors in Paul writings. Christians constantly tell me "O look 2 Peter says". It does not matter what 2 Peter may or may not say! Paul is still wrong and full of it!

#3 Messianics love say something along the lines of "O well Paul is really pro-Torah, he is just translated wrong by the christians" They love to dance around and say "Shaul" or spell Israel Ishraal or something stupid to impress their christian friends. Most of these idiots (and that includes all these gurus selling videos) do not speak a word of Hebrew or Greek!


The truth of the matter is the translators COVER FOR PAUL, and EDIT OUT AND CHANGE SOME OF THE MORE OFF THE WALL THINGS AND ANTI-TORAH THINGS THAT PAUL SAYS!

So I warn you. There is much deception in the "Messy-antic" movement! Don't think because you figured out Christmas is pagan you know everything! Virtually all Messianics have NO IDEA WHAT they are talking about and have never read the Bible just like when they were christians!
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Re: For those who doubt the apostle paul
Let us continue exposing the false Apostle Paul!

Paul claims (In direct opposition to Jesus) that his ministers deserve to be paid!

Paul takes a sentence out of the Tanakh "Do not muzzle the Ox as it treads out the grain"

Paul equates this, and says that

#1 God does not care about the ox! This is a LIE, Jesus said that the Father knows when even the tiniest sparrow falls! A Ox is just as much the creation of the Creator as you!

#2 Paul then uses this to and says that since they sowed spiritually in us, that they can reap from us physically (Which makes no sense anyways)

#3 Paul and modern day preachers, While preaching the Torah is done away with, use this to push the concept of a 10% religion tax. THERE IS NO CONCEPT OF THIS IN TORAH! OFFERINGS WERE DONE VIA THE CROPS YOU GREW! THEY WERE USED TO FEED LEVITES AND TO THROW GIANT PARTIES THAT INCLUDED THE ENTIRE NATION!

So what is the reality of this quote?

The truth is that YHWH does care about Oxes. The Torah is full of agricultural advice that any farmer will tell you is 100% true!

Oxes unlike Cows or a bull, do the majority of sweating via their noses! If you muzzle a ox as it works the animal will die!

So Paul once again, Lied, took the Torah out of context, and used it as a excuse to send his goonies to round up cash from his churches!
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Re: For those who doubt the apostle paul
Jesus says we have ONE teacher and it is him. Paul says we have MANY TEACHERS. Jesus says we are to have 1 shepherd and it is him! Paul says we have many shepherds!


Jesus says not to set up religious hierarchies like the gentiles! Jesus says everyone (and that includes Woman FYI) is equal. Paul on the other hand, in direct opposition to Jesus sets up religious hierarchies via his so called pastoral letters!

Op when are you going to admit Paul is a false prophet!
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Re: For those who doubt the apostle paul
My sister on this thread pointed out something I would like to talk about a bit more!

Galatians 5:14. Romans 13:9 - For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: thou shall love thy neighbour as thyself.

Notice how Paul leaves out the greatest commandments and the Shema! Paul leaves out "Love YHWH with all your heart, soul, and mind"

Paul does this because he knows if you love YHWH you will do what YHWH says! Jesus never said the law was "Fulfilled" (which is a utter lie of a translation btw) on the 2 greatest commandments! He simply said they other law HUNG and depended on the 2 great laws!

So Paul lies! Paul leaves out the Greatest commandment, and then Paul lies again and says the entire law is completed when you love your neighbor!

John on the other hand says "This is how we know we love our neighbor, IF WE KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS!
Haha TolD ya so

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Re: For those who doubt the apostle paul
OP = FAGGOT !!!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1440510


King David more likely.
Tired of all these damn christians, muslims, jews, the church of this and the church of that. I fart in your general direction.

Brian the Lion the Onion of France aka The Anti Christ, Lucifer
Merlin The White Necromancer
Paolin
The Evil One - King Solomon
RaHolDon MeTeTron HoPe
JETT
King Of Atlantis
Last of The Fallen
Zeus of Olympus
Haha TolD ya so

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Re: For those who doubt the apostle paul
My sister on this thread pointed out something I would like to talk about a bit more!

Galatians 5:14. Romans 13:9 - For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: thou shall love thy neighbour as thyself.

Notice how Paul leaves out the greatest commandments and the Shema! Paul leaves out "Love YHWH with all your heart, soul, and mind"

Paul does this because he knows if you love YHWH you will do what YHWH says! Jesus never said the law was "Fulfilled" (which is a utter lie of a translation btw) on the 2 greatest commandments! He simply said they other law HUNG and depended on the 2 great laws!

So Paul lies! Paul leaves out the Greatest commandment, and then Paul lies again and says the entire law is completed when you love your neighbor!

John on the other hand says "This is how we know we love our neighbor, IF WE KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS!

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1052634


Anyone else have any problems with everyone loving themselves?
Tired of all these damn christians, muslims, jews, the church of this and the church of that. I fart in your general direction.

Brian the Lion the Onion of France aka The Anti Christ, Lucifer
Merlin The White Necromancer
Paolin
The Evil One - King Solomon
RaHolDon MeTeTron HoPe
JETT
King Of Atlantis
Last of The Fallen
Zeus of Olympus
Anonymous Coward
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Re: For those who doubt the apostle paul
Dang best thread of the day and OP left the building. Bummer.
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Re: For those who doubt the apostle paul
I've had my doubts about Paul in the past, but I'm sure now that he was a real apostle. He even died a horrible death for his belief and witness for Jesus.

A fake wouldn't die for it, only a real believer would suffer as much as Paul did for witnessing for Christ.

I do not doubt anymore.
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


That's because Paul preaches about things you reject
Lisa.

Like the Eucharist, 1 Corinthians 11;29. When God, Our
Lord shows you personally, you will change. I pray.

It's laughable, people have the gall 2000 years later to reject
Paul but still declare the Bible is their authority. Yeah, the
little bit they accept.

Do you "see" Lisa?


Mary
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Re: For those who doubt the apostle paul
For Anonymous Coward 1052634

Thank you taking charge today, Yah bless.

Were you once a christian who followed Paul and if so, do you have any advice for those who are just now thinking that they've been conned.

For me, it took a long time to admit it. Talk about visiting the wilderness. Having to tell my children that I screwed up was the most difficult thing but they just said, 'hmm, ok, let's get it right now.'

My advice is that if you are just learning this stuff, repent and move on as quickly as possilbe.

Give up the unclean foods, pagan holidays, say and practice Shema, post the commandments on your gates, observe the weekly and yearly Sabbaths, and call God by his name. YHVH or Yah. These are not Jewish things, they are Godly things.
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Re: For those who doubt the apostle paul
Isn't it sad, the atheist regulars are always starting
threads about the faith and the biggest laugh, they're
going to give you the real meaning in between their
vulgarity. rex
Sword0fGideon (OP)

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Re: For those who doubt the apostle paul
I am your huckleberry OP.

I will 100% engage you in debate regarding the false Apostle Paul!

I have a few rules.

#1 You must refute ANY and ALL points I raise regarding Paul.

#2 The burden of proof is upon you.

#3 If at ANY TIME I can show even one time that:

A. Paul lied.
B. Paul misquoted Moses.
C. Paul misquoted the Tanakh.
D. Paul undermined the Authority of the 12.
E. Paul taught the opposite of Jesus

You will at once, and without hesitation declare both privately and in public, Paul to be a false prophet!


Never

To Begin I will discuss your post which will be left in black, with my replies in red.


But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession, 2 And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet. 3 But Peter said , Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? 4 Whiles it remained , was it not thine own ? and after it was sold , was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God. 5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down , and gave up the ghost : and great fear came on all them that heard these things. 6 And the young men arose , wound him up , and carried him out , and buried him. 7 And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done , came in . 8 And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said , Yea, for so much. 9 Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold , the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out . 10 Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost : and the young men came in , and found her dead, and, carrying her forth , buried her by her husband.

can anybody understand what this is saying???

it basically says Peter has authority.....

can anyone else see what else it is saying???

that through the Holy Spirit, Peter could discern things.

First of all your entire concept that Peter has authority destroys your own argument.

Paul himself attempts to undermine the authority of Peter in the book of Galatians when he writes TO THE ENTIRE REGION of Galatia and attempts to make Peter look like a hypocrite over the issue of Food. While Paul the moron of Tarsus, says in the very letter that anyone who is circumcised "Christ will profit them nothing.

Paul being the biggest hypocrite to ever walk the planet earth then has Timothy circumcised for "Fear of the Jews"!


the authority peter is weilding here is by Holy SPirit. on a side note, i find it so nice people jump into a fray like they are an expert, yet fail at giving specific locations of interest, you wouldn't be a very good guide...

as for your food thing, lets take a shot. your referring to vs. 2:11-12? Peter had already eaten with the gentiles and had taught that the middle wall of partition was broken down between Jews and Gentiles. everyone wants to talk about circumcision........ the Jews would not listen to Timothy unless he was circumcised under the circumstances, in order to speed the gospel it was wisdom to do so. Paul however refused to circumcise titus due to time and circumstances. Paul did his best to win the jews (1cor. 9:20; rom. 9:1-3), but when it came to compromising the gospel and teaching that keeping the law as neccessary for salvation, he drew the line. gal. 2:1-9


15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

Ah here we have the typical christian argument, and a perfect example of why I do not care much for christians.

Why you ask? Because you are liars who only quote a numbered soundbyte called a "verse" that seems to enforce your religious dogma.

You failed to state several things here regarding 2 Peter chapter 3.

#1 It is well know that 2 Peter is a forgery and that Peter never wrote this. Even church history records that even during the time which this letter began to circulate (Which was way after the real Peter was dead), the people then considered this to be a forgery!

Now I realize that as a christian this utterly terrifies you, and you will rationlize this away and just think what a bad person I am (For dare telling you the truth). Almost all of the MOST CONSERVATIVE SCHOLARS ADMIT 2 PETER IS A FORGERY, ONLY THE MOST FUNDAMENTAL (BRAINWASHED) SCHOLARS DENY IT A FORGERY! Peter did not even spell his name correctly!
its written to the same people 1peter is written to. 1 peter was written by Silvanus, and the book starts, Peter, an Apostle of Jesus Christ. 2nd peter starts, "Simon Peter", a servant and an Apostle of Jesus Christ..... of course, the doubtful will grasp at any argument to disprove Gods word, so go ahead.


#2 For the sake of argument we are going to assume for a moment that 2 Peter is legit, and go over a few things.

A. You failed to quote the entire section showing because it shows you to be full of shit. You only quoted 1 sentence taken out of context to reinforce your religious dogma! would you rather i quote the whole scripture and highlight only the point i wanted? Oh! i can do that!

B. Historically both Martin Luther and John Calvin wanted 2 Peter removed from Scripture BECAUSE THEY FELT IT WAS WRITTEN AS A CONDEMNATION OF PAUL!i could care less about these people, why do you solicite their support to help your cause? enemy of my enemy is my friend? are you a muslim?

C. You failed to mention the context of 2 Peter 3. "Peter" or the anonymous author was warning about false prophets. IN FACT VERSE 17 SAYS THAT PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT LEARNED IN THE SCRIPTURES (THE TANAKH, ONLY THEY EXISTED) DESTROY THEMSELVES WITH PAUL AND USE PAUL AS A EXCUSE FOR LAWLESSNESS! this shouldn't be taken that the bible is hard to understand, or that the common man cant understand it. for the unlearned and unstable not only stumble at the so-called hard things to comprehend by some, they also wrest at the so-called simple scripture to their own destruction. matt. 13:15-17; 1 cor. 2:14 as I said before, the gentiles were getting into heaven, it was the jews, thinking they had to have laws, that were failing.

So in reality 2 Peter chapter 3 is a warning about the stuff Paul writes and "Peter" warns Paul's letters will destroy people and make them forsake the law of Moses!no

DO YOU KNOW OF ANY RELIGIONS THAT ARE BASED UPON PAUL'S LETTERS THAT FORSAKE THE LAW OF MOSES?
it is by grace, not law.

If Peter has the ability to discern, and paul is a false apostle, then why does Peter call him "beloved brother Paul"??

Why doesn't "Peter" here call Paul an Apostle? Once again this is a WARNING about the things Paul writes, not some hype about Paul!2peter 3:16, it states simply, as also in all his epistles........ alot of these epistles say Paul, an Apostle of Jesus Christ.

Again, if Paul is false, why then does Peter go with Paul to Rome???

There is NO ACCOUNT IN SCRIPTURE OF PETER EVER GOING TO ROME WITH PAUL.

In fact, Peter's tomb has been found in ISRAEL, proving the roman church fairy tells about Peter to be false!

Not to mention, ALL THE WRITINGS OF PETER THAT WERE NOT VOTED INTO CANNON, SHOW PAUL TO BE THE ACTUAL ENEMY OF THE 12 APOSTLES! THIS IS BACKED UP BY THE DEAD SEA SCROLLS!
the authority at the time was indeed caesar. john 21:18-19 the Lord tells peter about his death, another would take him to where he would not desire to go.

the answer is simple, its because Paul wasnt a false apostle!

Yes Paul was, he admits it in his own letters that he was rejected as a false Apostle by all of Asia Minor (modern day Turkey). In fact this is where John presided over at one time, and these are the very "Churches" that Jesus wrote to in Revelations!synogoges of the jews??? even Peter was having problems ministering to the jews.

Jesus reveals much in his letters

#1 None of these churches (Besides Ephesus) were established by Paul! NONE OF THEM! didnt you state earlier that ephesus claimed paul was a false apostle????

#2 Paul admits via his own letters to Timothy that he was rejected as a false Apostle as Ephesus. JESUS BRAGS ON EPHESUS FOR REJECTING FALSE APOSTLES!

As a visitor it was customary for him to be asked by the synagogue ruler to share a few words of greeting, and this offer Paul always accepted with relish. Inevitably those Jews who rejected Paul’s teaching about Jesus had him put out of the synagogue and Paul would then turn to the Gentiles,he had made among the proselytes and God-fearers.

Such a pattern was repeated at Ephesus: Paul was allowed to speak at the synagogue for three months (19:8), after that he was thrown out and held discussions at the lecture hall of Tyrannus for the next two years


#3 Jesus rebukes churches who were eating meat sacrificed to idols! Paul in his very letters teaches that this is ok to do!some jews held to some rites of the law and some gentiles held to certain heathen rites as well. all these differences had to be dealt with and true knowledge gained before perfect harmony between the converts could be maintained, hence, the sound advise i cor. 8:1-13; 10:16-33; col. 2:14-17; rom. 14:1-15:3

To preach or teach otherwise is rebellion unto the Lord and his authority, because that is the authority Peter and all the Apostles worked under.

Actually the real Apostles rebuke Paul in their own letters.

#1 James is a direct refutation of Paul. James specifically says a man is NOT saved by faith alone! It is well known via church history that Paul was James enemy. James was Jesus BROTHER who was head of the churches and the Apostles after Jesus died.More recent careful study of James shows that his understanding of the relationship between faith and works is not in opposition to Paul’s, but simply focuses on a different aspect of the believer’s life. Both men’s approaches, in fact, are firmly grounded in examples drawn from the Hebrew Scriptures.




#2 Jude, another brother of Jesus, is a direct refutation of Pauline filth, as Jude points out the people who
were turning "Grace into a license to sin". Sin as defined by the Torah and the Apostle John in 1 John 3:4 is "TRANSGRESSION OF THE TORAH" aka breaking the Torah. Now just who in first century Judea was preaching "grace and faith alone" as a license to not keep the law of Moses?thats the common practice of the doctrines of men, not the gospels.

#3 1 John is a direct refutation of Paul of Tarsus. John reveals several things

a. John tells us "Let no man fool you, he who practices righteousness is righteous" WHAT MAN IN FIRST CENTURY JUDEA WAS TELLING PEOPLE THEY WERE RIGHTEOUS VIA A SIMPLE "FAITH THOUGHT" ABOUT JESUS! really? is it to hard to give chapter and verse?


B. John tells us that the spirit of Anti-Messiah went out from among them and was at large. John also tells us to test the spirits, and that anyone who says Jesus was not 100% human was the spirit of anti-christ John says anyone who says Jesus did not "Come in the flesh" in your English Bible. this is all your personal rhetoric to strengthen your own agenda, if you cant provide chapters and verses at the very least then stop posting to the thread. and if you cant do a dialogue in shorter paragraphs, again, dont respond. Yes, the spirit of anti-christ went out, the bible even points you to who it is exactly.

Paul twice in his letters teaches the exact opposite and says Jesus only came in the "likeness of Flesh"

C. John tells us that anyone who does not keep the commandments is a LIAR and the truth is not in them.

D. John tells us that we correctly love our neighbors and love YHWH if we KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS!7th day advantist rhetoric.But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; 9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

[link to www.bible.ca]


16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest , as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

And this is why I do not like Christians, because you sir, forgot to quote verse 17! (because it destroys your argument!)i could quote it all, wouldnt change it a bit.15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest , as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before , beware lest ye also , being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. 18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever . Amen.

AND STICK TO THE STORY LINE!!!

The Gentiles were storming the gates of heaven getting in.

The Jews were the ones having problems understanding!

Actually Christian, Jesus himself told the Samaritan woman that THE JEWS HAD IT RIGHT ALL ALONG. Jesus rebuked only certain rabbinical classes which used the TALMUD or the so called "Oral Torah". yeah, that explains why they resisted it so much.

The Talmud adds or subtracts thousands of man made laws and traditions. The TORAH FORBIDS THIS!a new covenant

thats why paul was successful and Peter wrote this, Peter was ministering to whom???? the Jews.

Uh no Paul was not successful, Paul admits via his own letters that he was rejected everywhere as a false Apostle! its to bad you dont goive chapters and verses...... is this your work? and if so, why not provide it? he was rejected from the synogogues after a short time, and then he would turn to the gentiles, only for the jews to come reek havoc amongst the gentiles

In fact history shows us that those who quoted Paul were considered heretics and marcionites!
American Protestant christianity is nothing but modern day Marcionism where everything Jesus taught is ignored and Paul is the god. and theres stories circulating that the catholic church denies christ as well

Paul also admits via his own letters extreme jealousy of the "Chief Apostle", whom Paul mocks as "Those that seemed to be pillars" (Jesus said they were pillars!) Paul also goes on extensive rants in 2 Corinthians where he admits he is tormented by a fallen angel, and Paul admits the Corinthians have left him for the "Super Apostles". Paul later admits AND THREATENS TO KILL THE CORINTHIANS FOR ASKING FOR "PROOF THAT CHRIST SPEAKS IN ME"your repeating yourself alot already. yeah, the jews got pissed they wanted him dead


Paul also undermines the very same Apostles in Galatians, and admits that PAUL preaches another gospel!

works do not produce faith, works are a product of Faith!!

There is no concept of the pagan concept of "Faith" in the Hebrew Scriptures. The true word is "Emunah" which entire books could be written about. In short it means a trust and reliance upon the Creator because you follow his eternal instructions. There is no concept of "Emunah" that is not a action in keeping Torah.

Paul in fact lies about what Moses said in Galatians. Paul also based his bullshit in Hab 2:4. No hebrew text on planet earth says "The Just shall live by faith"

The text say "The Just/Righteous shall live by their EMUNAH their FAITHFULNESS to the Creator" aka they keep the commandments and just like Duet. says it is accounted to them as righteousness. In context these are just people who keep the Creators commandments who are SCARED because of the events in the world around them. YHWH is saying "Trust me guys"


I trust you will not commit intellectual suicide and try and deny or argue emotionally the points I have raised.

I could list hundreds more! Paul of Tarsus is a Liar, and his letters are utter filth, and you have been brainwashed that they are the "word of God" because a bunch of child molesting pagan heathens who caused the dark ages and killed millions voted them into your Bible!

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1052634


and if you blitz me again with walls of crap and fail to provide chapters books and verses you may as well talk to a wall.
Christians have had to face and realize their own sins, and feel compelled to try and help others as well.

This chant of Holier than thou is wrong and is taught by others making you think what is cool or acceptable to them.

The thought of "believe as i do" is strongly in an unbelievers life, because they feel they will be ridiculed by their friends.

Every falsehood a unbeliver weilds, is merely a reflection of the obstacles that unbeliever must face from his very own peers.

Unbelievers are the true followers, they are dedicated to fear of what other people think of them.

And because of this, they are ashamed of themselves, but wall themselves up to feel comfortable and safe, assuring themselves with rationality and laughter.

Which is insanity!
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1052634
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06/24/2011 09:02 PM
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Re: For those who doubt the apostle paul
For Anonymous Coward 1052634

Thank you taking charge today, Yah bless.

Were you once a christian who followed Paul and if so, do you have any advice for those who are just now thinking that they've been conned.

For me, it took a long time to admit it. Talk about visiting the wilderness. Having to tell my children that I screwed up was the most difficult thing but they just said, 'hmm, ok, let's get it right now.'

My advice is that if you are just learning this stuff, repent and move on as quickly as possilbe.

Give up the unclean foods, pagan holidays, say and practice Shema, post the commandments on your gates, observe the weekly and yearly Sabbaths, and call God by his name. YHVH or Yah. These are not Jewish things, they are Godly things.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1441822


Yes I am a former christian, who was raised and educated in christian schools.

And I went through the Messianic phase also. It took me setting out to once and for all prove that Paul was really "Pro-Torah". I checked every single time he quotes the Tanakh in context and woke up real fast. Of course I always had my doubts about Paul even as a christian.

I will never forget the day it dawned on my that christianity was a false religion. It was up there with the day that I figured out that Passover was not even a sin sacrifice.

And yes I would agree! Start keeping the Sabbaths, keep the Feast, and start calling on the Creators name and it will change your life! And stop eating unclean foods it is slowly killing you!
Sword0fGideon (OP)

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06/24/2011 09:05 PM
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Re: For those who doubt the apostle paul
This is all emotional religious bullshit which has nothing to do with the subject at hand. Son which "New Testament" are you even talking about? You talking about the American Protestant Bible with 66 books? You talking about the American Catholic Bible with 77 books? Are you even aware that Bibles outside of America have up to 90 books in them? Are you even aware "Cannon" is different depending where you go?

No......didn't think so.

If you are to stupid to actually refute my post point by point, or to braindead to actually address the hundreds of points throughout this thread, then go away child and let the adults talk.

Please leave the religious bullshit out of this thread and be a man and face the issues.


Op I challenge you to actually Ban anyone on this thread who steps in with this foolishness and disrupts our debate. Let us try and leave the religious dolts like this guy out of this please!


the problems im having are with people with walls of text and no referrences to bk ch and verse.....
Christians have had to face and realize their own sins, and feel compelled to try and help others as well.

This chant of Holier than thou is wrong and is taught by others making you think what is cool or acceptable to them.

The thought of "believe as i do" is strongly in an unbelievers life, because they feel they will be ridiculed by their friends.

Every falsehood a unbeliver weilds, is merely a reflection of the obstacles that unbeliever must face from his very own peers.

Unbelievers are the true followers, they are dedicated to fear of what other people think of them.

And because of this, they are ashamed of themselves, but wall themselves up to feel comfortable and safe, assuring themselves with rationality and laughter.

Which is insanity!
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