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TRACK CURRENT MAWSON STATION ANTARCTICA WEBCAM : SEE IF SUN WILL RISE ON LAST NO SUN DAY OF YEAR

 
TBar1984
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06/28/2011 07:32 PM
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TRACK CURRENT MAWSON STATION ANTARCTICA WEBCAM : SEE IF SUN WILL RISE ON LAST NO SUN DAY OF YEAR
Here you go, blow by blow calculations of where the Celestial & Visible horizons are located. Suntard Doom Finally Cured.
From The American Practical Navigator, "For any elevation above the surface, the celestial horizon is usually above the geometrical and visible horizons, the difference increasing as elevation increases. It is thus possible to observe a body which is above the visible horizon but below the celestial horizon. That is, the body’s altitude is negative and its zenith distance is greater than 90°.



Bowditch [link to msi.nga.mil:80]
Nautical Almanac [link to www.filefishstick.com]

speedbanan

Last Edited by TBar1984 on 06/28/2011 11:59 PM
TBar1984 (OP)

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Re: TRACK CURRENT MAWSON STATION ANTARCTICA WEBCAM : SEE IF SUN WILL RISE ON LAST NO SUN DAY OF YEAR
AMPLITUDES
"The Sun is on the celestial horizon when its lower limb is approximately two thirds of a diameter above the visible horizon. The Moon is on the celestial horizon when its upper limb is on the visible horizon. Stars and planets are on the celestial horizon when they are approximately one Sun diameter above the visible horizon. When observing a body on the visible horizon, a correction from Table 23 must be applied. This correction accounts for the slight change in bearing as the body moves between the visible and celestial horizons. It reduces the bearing on the visible horizon to the celestial horizon, from which the table is computed..."
~ Bowditch ch 17 p 273

Last Edited by TBar1984 on 06/28/2011 08:07 PM
TBar1984 (OP)

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Re: TRACK CURRENT MAWSON STATION ANTARCTICA WEBCAM : SEE IF SUN WILL RISE ON LAST NO SUN DAY OF YEAR
tounge
Zing

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06/28/2011 09:22 PM

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Re: TRACK CURRENT MAWSON STATION ANTARCTICA WEBCAM : SEE IF SUN WILL RISE ON LAST NO SUN DAY OF YEAR
Very methodical study. Great job OP!
Anonymous Coward
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06/28/2011 09:34 PM
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Re: TRACK CURRENT MAWSON STATION ANTARCTICA WEBCAM : SEE IF SUN WILL RISE ON LAST NO SUN DAY OF YEAR
im at only the 3 minute mark and he has said that the time on the webcam clocks is wrong a couple times already.

so in order to believe what he has to say over the full 25 minutes is predicated on the webcam time being off?

i dunno man...

on the fence
nexuseditor

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06/28/2011 09:42 PM
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Re: TRACK CURRENT MAWSON STATION ANTARCTICA WEBCAM : SEE IF SUN WILL RISE ON LAST NO SUN DAY OF YEAR
thanks

bump
"The nature of the universe is such that ends can never justify the means. On the contrary, the means always determine the end."
(Aldous Huxley)
TBar1984 (OP)

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06/28/2011 10:41 PM
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Re: TRACK CURRENT MAWSON STATION ANTARCTICA WEBCAM : SEE IF SUN WILL RISE ON LAST NO SUN DAY OF YEAR
im at only the 3 minute mark and he has said that the time on the webcam clocks is wrong a couple times already.

so in order to believe what he has to say over the full 25 minutes is predicated on the webcam time being off?

i dunno man...

on the fence
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1447243

Actually the time on the webcam has absolutely no impact on the geographic location of the base or the sun. That should be obvious. No matter what time they stick on the cam, the base is still located at 67°36' S 62°52' E, the sun's declination is still 23°21.8' N, and meridian passage for 60° E is still 12:03 Zone Time. The Nautical Almanac and my program both use the geographic time, which for Mawson is GMT +4.
TBar1984 (OP)

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06/28/2011 11:09 PM
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Re: TRACK CURRENT MAWSON STATION ANTARCTICA WEBCAM : SEE IF SUN WILL RISE ON LAST NO SUN DAY OF YEAR
You can watch the 'Live' webcam on the site and compare that to the video. The Timezone is here [link to www.timeanddate.com] which agrees with the Live-cam here [link to www.antarctica.gov.au]
Current Mawson time is 08:00 am MAWT, look at the cam. It's still dark whereas the video showed full light at 08:00. My program says the sun just crossed the 15° below the horizon line, so, it will begin to brighten. Today's meridian passage will be at 12:52 MAWT or 11:52 ZT.
Anonymous Coward
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06/28/2011 11:23 PM
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Re: TRACK CURRENT MAWSON STATION ANTARCTICA WEBCAM : SEE IF SUN WILL RISE ON LAST NO SUN DAY OF YEAR
We know the sun, earth and moon are off, the sun setting in the august sept position. This doesn't need proof, it's common knowledge to anyone who tracks the seasons by the sun and the moon.

Gee, if you had been paying attention all these years, this thread would not be necessary.
TBar1984 (OP)

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06/28/2011 11:42 PM
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Re: TRACK CURRENT MAWSON STATION ANTARCTICA WEBCAM : SEE IF SUN WILL RISE ON LAST NO SUN DAY OF YEAR
We know the sun, earth and moon are off, the sun setting in the august sept position. This doesn't need proof, it's common knowledge to anyone who tracks the seasons by the sun and the moon.

Gee, if you had been paying attention all these years, this thread would not be necessary.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1409538

In case you haven't figured it out yet, I'm a Professional Navigator with about 40 years of Celestial Navigation experience. I have been paying very close attention, you should study up on it. Maybe you would have a clue.

Today's passage at Mawson will be the last, 'No Sun' day. Rising and setting times for the Sun here [link to www.timeanddate.com] say Jun 29, 2011 - Down all day
Jun 30, 2011 - Rise 12:38 PM Set 1:08 PM
TBar1984 (OP)

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Re: TRACK CURRENT MAWSON STATION ANTARCTICA WEBCAM : SEE IF SUN WILL RISE ON LAST NO SUN DAY OF YEAR
According to my calculations, the Sun's Declination today will be 23°14.3' N. The latitude is still 67°36' S...
67 36 + 23 14.3 = 90 50.3, meaning the sun's center will be -50.3' below the celestial horizon, hence, No Sun today. However, as noted in the video, the Visible horizon on the Mawson webcam is around 46.0' below the celestial horizon. Therefore, you should see about the top third of the sun above the visible horizon today.

Current Mawson time 9:20 MAWT, 3.5 hrs to Meridian Transit. it's getting light down there [link to www.antarctica.gov.au]
Anonymous Coward
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06/29/2011 12:33 AM
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Re: TRACK CURRENT MAWSON STATION ANTARCTICA WEBCAM : SEE IF SUN WILL RISE ON LAST NO SUN DAY OF YEAR
so what are you saying? that everything is as it should be or that there is something amiss?
TBar1984 (OP)

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06/29/2011 12:38 AM
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Re: TRACK CURRENT MAWSON STATION ANTARCTICA WEBCAM : SEE IF SUN WILL RISE ON LAST NO SUN DAY OF YEAR
so what are you saying? that everything is as it should be or that there is something amiss?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1005775

Watch the video in the OP. I'm saying if everything is well, you might see the upper third of the Sun poke above the horizon in about three hours. Even though TimeandDate.com says you won't [link to www.timeanddate.com]
TBar1984 (OP)

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Re: TRACK CURRENT MAWSON STATION ANTARCTICA WEBCAM : SEE IF SUN WILL RISE ON LAST NO SUN DAY OF YEAR
Getting closer & brighter, the Sun now about 5° below the Celestial horizon. You might see it on the Visible horizon in about two hours, or 12:20 MAWT [link to www.timeanddate.com]
Looks like there are some clouds on the horizon, bummer [link to www.antarctica.gov.au]
TBar1984 (OP)

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06/29/2011 01:50 AM
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Re: TRACK CURRENT MAWSON STATION ANTARCTICA WEBCAM : SEE IF SUN WILL RISE ON LAST NO SUN DAY OF YEAR
I think I figured out what the Aussies did to the Webcam Video Movie's time. They made it GMT. That would pretty much explain why it appears off. If you add the 5 hours of Zone Description to the time of the video, that would pretty much make it MAWT and match the 'Live' Webcam. So the, "The date/time on the images shows local Mawson time. If you have any questions about the webcams, please see our Webcam FAQ" at the bottom of the page only applies to the 'Live' image, not the video.
Those Aussie Scientist are as bad as the Germans at Neumayer Station III.
TBar1984 (OP)

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06/29/2011 02:20 AM
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Re: TRACK CURRENT MAWSON STATION ANTARCTICA WEBCAM : SEE IF SUN WILL RISE ON LAST NO SUN DAY OF YEAR
Man, look how bright it is at Mawson [link to www.antarctica.gov.au] it's the one all the way to the left at the bottom of the page [link to www.antarctica.gov.au]
Pretty bright to have the Sun still 2.5° below the Celestial horizon, heck, they say the sun won't rise at all today [link to www.timeanddate.com]
Anonymous Coward
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Re: TRACK CURRENT MAWSON STATION ANTARCTICA WEBCAM : SEE IF SUN WILL RISE ON LAST NO SUN DAY OF YEAR
100% PROOF THAT THE SUN IS RIGHT WHERE IT SHOULD BE : ANTARCTIC STATIONS EXAMINED???
Anonymous Coward
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06/29/2011 02:53 AM
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Re: TRACK CURRENT MAWSON STATION ANTARCTICA WEBCAM : SEE IF SUN WILL RISE ON LAST NO SUN DAY OF YEAR
TBar... Nice job man.

I was talking about this on BAUT Forum the other day and they said the same thing.

Very interesting that the Sun-tards are disproved...

Thank you for the updates!

bump
Anonymous Coward
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06/29/2011 02:56 AM
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Re: TRACK CURRENT MAWSON STATION ANTARCTICA WEBCAM : SEE IF SUN WILL RISE ON LAST NO SUN DAY OF YEAR
So everythings good then?
TBar1984 (OP)

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06/29/2011 03:08 AM
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Re: TRACK CURRENT MAWSON STATION ANTARCTICA WEBCAM : SEE IF SUN WILL RISE ON LAST NO SUN DAY OF YEAR
TBar... Nice job man.

I was talking about this on BAUT Forum the other day and they said the same thing.

Very interesting that the Sun-tards are disproved...

Thank you for the updates!

bump
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1375940

Yep, when I saw this the other day I thought, this will be an excellent test of where the Sun is. Can't ask for better. Last day of "Down all day", North facing Cam, and decent weather. I really want to see that upper limb pop up in 20 minutes.

Funny about the interest in this thread. You'd think people would be all over such an obviously valid test. Being such an excellent test, and all the previously pinned 'Sun is Messed Up' threads...kinda makes you wonder...
TBar1984 (OP)

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06/29/2011 04:11 AM
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Re: TRACK CURRENT MAWSON STATION ANTARCTICA WEBCAM : SEE IF SUN WILL RISE ON LAST NO SUN DAY OF YEAR
Well, it hit meridian passage and still No Sun. I'm going to call it on the low hanging clouds out to sea, same as the last two days. It IS supposed to rise tomorrow;
Jun 29, 2011 Down all day
Jun 30, 2011 Rise 12:38 PM Set 1:08 PM LOD 30m 04s
Jul 1, 2011 Rise 12:29 PM Set 1:16 PM LOD 47m 40s
[link to www.timeanddate.com]

To give a comparison, the altitudes at meridian passage given by Starry Night for those three days;
Jun 29, 2011 -50.43
Jun 30, 2011 -47.09
Jul 01, 2011 -43.34

So, the difference between the day of No Sun and the day with 30 minutes of Sun is 03.34'....Not Much!

I'll be Back, tomorrow.
TBar1984 (OP)

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06/29/2011 05:37 AM
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Re: TRACK CURRENT MAWSON STATION ANTARCTICA WEBCAM : SEE IF SUN WILL RISE ON LAST NO SUN DAY OF YEAR
Here's the Twilight Times for McMurdo [link to www.timeanddate.com]

Jun 1, 2011 Astronomical 7:58 AM 5:43 PM Nautical 10:27 AM 3:15 PM
Jun 2, 2011 Astronomical 8:01 AM 5:41 PM Nautical 10:31 AM 3:11 PM

They don't seem to have Neumayer Station III listed, but these people do;
[link to www.sunrisesunset.com]
TBar1984 (OP)

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06/29/2011 05:33 PM
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Re: TRACK CURRENT MAWSON STATION ANTARCTICA WEBCAM : SEE IF SUN WILL RISE ON LAST NO SUN DAY OF YEAR
Tonight's the night, 03:38 EDT the Sun should rise in Mawson...
TBar1984 (OP)

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06/30/2011 02:56 AM
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Re: TRACK CURRENT MAWSON STATION ANTARCTICA WEBCAM : SEE IF SUN WILL RISE ON LAST NO SUN DAY OF YEAR
Here we go...
[link to www.antarctica.gov.au]
TBar1984 (OP)

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06/30/2011 03:46 AM
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Re: TRACK CURRENT MAWSON STATION ANTARCTICA WEBCAM : SEE IF SUN WILL RISE ON LAST NO SUN DAY OF YEAR
Right now is when timeanddate.com says it should rise. The Sun's center is at -49.4' according to Starry Night Pro. Take away the 15.7' semi-diameter correction and timeanddate.com is saying the visible horizon is at -33.7' verses the Bowditch method that says -36.3.
TBar1984 (OP)

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06/30/2011 04:01 AM
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Re: TRACK CURRENT MAWSON STATION ANTARCTICA WEBCAM : SEE IF SUN WILL RISE ON LAST NO SUN DAY OF YEAR
Well, the last Cam shot was 12:57 Local, still no Sun. Meridian passage was 12:52, so, it's headed back down.
TBar1984 (OP)

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07/01/2011 12:54 AM
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Re: TRACK CURRENT MAWSON STATION ANTARCTICA WEBCAM : SEE IF SUN WILL RISE ON LAST NO SUN DAY OF YEAR
Whoa, Hurricane force winds at Mawson [link to www.antarctica.gov.au]

Probably won't see the sun tonight either.
tomasgod1

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07/19/2012 02:13 AM
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Re: TRACK CURRENT MAWSON STATION ANTARCTICA WEBCAM : SEE IF SUN WILL RISE ON LAST NO SUN DAY OF YEAR
Here you go, blow by blow calculations of where the Celestial & Visible horizons are located. Suntard Doom Finally Cured.
From The American Practical Navigator, "For any elevation above the surface, the celestial horizon is usually above the geometrical and visible horizons, the difference increasing as elevation increases. It is thus possible to observe a body which is above the visible horizon but below the celestial horizon. That is, the body’s altitude is negative and its zenith distance is greater than 90°.



Bowditch [link to msi.nga.mil:80]
Nautical Almanac [link to www.filefishstick.com]

speedbanan
 Quoting: TBar1984


Tbar! hi

Thanks as usual for the leveling. But you are a suntard as well and I don't think you need curing..do ya? Just cure people that find the reflection of the moon in cameras and we will be off to a running start. Good luck with that, as I think they would rather stay ill. Great post as usual, and I enjoy you videos. I know the time and effor it takes to do these so I always watch and and want to let you know that you effort is not wasted! Thanks Man!
dasbier

Last Edited by tomasgod1 on 07/19/2012 02:37 AM
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Hydra

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Re: TRACK CURRENT MAWSON STATION ANTARCTICA WEBCAM : SEE IF SUN WILL RISE ON LAST NO SUN DAY OF YEAR
Hi TBar,

I'm a little bit upset.

12:52 MAWT, 11:52 ZT, 8:01 AM, 12:38 PM, 1:16 PM LOD, 03:38 EDT, 12:57 Local

Five different time zones specified, AM, PM

You are an astronomer - why the hell don't you use international standards?

There are readers from all over the world.

Damn it! For astronomical events give the time in 24 hour and UTC (at least in addition).



.
If the Moon is off, if Earth wobbles or if there is a pole shift
how can things like this, predicted decades ago, happen?

aseindia
Annular Solar Eclipse - January 15, 2010 - Rameshwaram, India

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