Godlike Productions - Conspiracy Forum
Users Online Now: 1,510 (Who's On?)Visitors Today: 265,131
Pageviews Today: 450,772Threads Today: 127Posts Today: 2,554
03:27 AM


Rate this Thread

Absolute BS Crap Reasonable Nice Amazing
 

Christians, let's get on the same page - Proof from Jesus that Hell is not Eternal

 
Last of the Maccabees
Offer Upgrade

User ID: 1415546
United States
07/02/2011 08:29 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Christians, let's get on the same page - Proof from Jesus that Hell is not Eternal
It drives me crazy that people think that Hell is Eternal Torture. It makes people not accept Christianity because some folks actually get excited about people burning forever and ever.

I believed the same thing before, but not anymore. If you're willing to invest 15-20 minutes I can prove it yo you through the Bible. Links coming.

" God calls the state of the ungodly the “second death.” But we presume to edit God and tell people they will not really die, but that they will live on in constant agony and torture. Jesus clearly taught us to “not be afraid of those who can kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can DESTROY BOTH SOUL AND BODY IN HELL” (Matthew 10:28). Jesus uses the word “destroy.” We correct him, as well as God and the Holy Spirit, and substitute the words “live on and on and on.” Whom shall students of God’s word believe? God’s word even makes a distinction between the soul and the body and hints that we need to fear the God who can “destroy” both. He didn’t say to “fear him who can torment and torture the soul and/or body.” He didn’t say to “fear him who can inflict pain to the soul and/or body unendingly without mercy.”
1/2 a million downloads on my Podcast Feeds [link to feeds.feedburner.com]

[link to www.encount3rs.com]

We are fishers of men. Fishermen don't bang gongs and scream to catch fish. They "wisely" bait their hooks and capture the imagination of the fish.
Last of the Maccabees (OP)

User ID: 1415546
United States
07/02/2011 08:31 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Christians, let's get on the same page - Proof from Jesus that Hell is not Eternal
Link # 1

Thoughts on Punishment of the wicked.

Podcast - [link to www.godsmessageontheweb.net]

[link to www.godsmessageontheweb.net]

I grew up in the church. For many years, I believed in the traditional view of Heaven and Hell—that souls are taken from the body immediately following death and are placed in either Heaven or Hell where they will spend eternity in bliss or unending torture. This is what most of the Christian church right now believes. For the last six or seven years, however, I have found countless scriptures that have changed my thinking considerably in this area. It seems to me that nearly the entire Bible teaches that eternal life is only experienced in Heaven, that Hell is a place of complete destruction and annihilation. There are many scripture passages that seem to clearly teach this, but there are others that admittedly seem to teach the traditional view as well. The Bible must never be thought to contradict itself, regardless of what simple meanings may be found in certain verses. When two positions seem to come at odds with one another, one must decide which view fits best in the overall interpretation of the Bible. Verses ought not to be taken by themselves but instead cross-checked against other scripture passages to decide what it is that the Lord is actually trying to teach us in His Word.

While some passages might seem to indicate one line of teaching and others seem to hint at a different one, there can be only one correct interpretation. Hell is either eternal or not—there is certainly no middle ground. After a great deal of research and reflection, I have come to believe very strongly in the unconventional doctrine of annihilation in Hell. The following is a study I have done to show why I feel that this is, in fact, the proper interpretation of the Word of God.

Last Edited by Last of the Maccabees on 07/02/2011 10:50 AM
1/2 a million downloads on my Podcast Feeds [link to feeds.feedburner.com]

[link to www.encount3rs.com]

We are fishers of men. Fishermen don't bang gongs and scream to catch fish. They "wisely" bait their hooks and capture the imagination of the fish.
Last of the Maccabees (OP)

User ID: 1415546
United States
07/02/2011 08:34 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Christians, let's get on the same page - Proof from Jesus that Hell is not Eternal
Link # 2

Thoughts on Punishment of the Wicked.

[link to www.godsmessageontheweb.net]

Podcast - [link to www.godsmessageontheweb.net]

SCRIPTURAL SUPPORT FOR ANNIHILATION—

There are numerous scriptures that seem to clearly indicate that there is no eternal life for the wicked (not even in Hell). Here are quite a few that I found from the PC Study Bible after doing a search for the words “eternal life” in the concordance. These references are in Biblical order, and each is from the New American Standard Bible (Updated Edition) unless otherwise stated.
Matt 19:16—”And someone came to Him and said, ‘Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?’”

This man spoke of obtaining eternal life. It wasn’t as if he already possessed it. Preachers today would probably say to him “Son, you already have eternal life; it’s just a matter of where you will spend it.” But Jesus never said that.

Matt 19:29-30—”And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or farms for My name’s sake, will receive many times as much, and will inherit eternal life.”

They will inherit eternal life. This indicates that not everyone has it already.
Matt 25:46—”These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

This verse admittedly uses the phrase “eternal punishment,” but it is juxtaposed against the phrase “eternal life.” Death by annihilation in the Lake of Fire could certainly be called “eternal punishment” because it is eternal in its consequences. Death on earth is only temporal because everyone will be raised again at the resurrection. Death in the Lake of Fire, however, is eternal: there is no reversing it and no coming back from it. If Jesus meant for the punishment to last eternally, he probably wouldn’t have contrasted it with the phrase “eternal life” which is clearly meant only for believers. If Jesus had intended what most churches believe he did with this verse, he should have said, “Both the righteous and the unrighteous will go away to eternal life, but the unrighteous will spend it being tortured while the righteous spend theirs in paradise.”
1/2 a million downloads on my Podcast Feeds [link to feeds.feedburner.com]

[link to www.encount3rs.com]

We are fishers of men. Fishermen don't bang gongs and scream to catch fish. They "wisely" bait their hooks and capture the imagination of the fish.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1442658
Australia
07/02/2011 08:39 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Christians, let's get on the same page - Proof from Jesus that Hell is not Eternal
I read your long ambiguous dribble, now read this
[link to www.christadelphianals.org]
Last of the Maccabees (OP)

User ID: 1415546
United States
07/02/2011 08:43 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Christians, let's get on the same page - Proof from Jesus that Hell is not Eternal
I read your long ambiguous dribble, now read this
[link to www.christadelphianals.org]
 Quoting: mr2


Thanks for the link. Not sure how to respond to the perceived insult. We'll just go with God Bless You. hf
1/2 a million downloads on my Podcast Feeds [link to feeds.feedburner.com]

[link to www.encount3rs.com]

We are fishers of men. Fishermen don't bang gongs and scream to catch fish. They "wisely" bait their hooks and capture the imagination of the fish.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1443081
United States
07/02/2011 08:47 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Christians, let's get on the same page - Proof from Jesus that Hell is not Eternal
Articles written by bible historians make a
good case for hell just meant a grave untill
Dante wrote The Inferno.

Religious leaders that read the play decided
the lake of fire stuff was a great way to
scare the flock into keeping the tithes
rolling in and under control.
Last of the Maccabees (OP)

User ID: 1415546
United States
07/02/2011 08:50 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Christians, let's get on the same page - Proof from Jesus that Hell is not Eternal
Articles written by bible historians make a
good case for hell just meant a grave untill
Dante wrote The Inferno.

Religious leaders that read the play decided
the lake of fire stuff was a great way to
scare the flock into keeping the tithes
rolling in and under control.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1443081


hf Good stuff. I agree; it's about scaring the masses into joining. However; Jesus wants folks who want to be in a relationship with Him. Not people who are scared. Thanks!
1/2 a million downloads on my Podcast Feeds [link to feeds.feedburner.com]

[link to www.encount3rs.com]

We are fishers of men. Fishermen don't bang gongs and scream to catch fish. They "wisely" bait their hooks and capture the imagination of the fish.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1442658
Australia
07/02/2011 08:53 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Christians, let's get on the same page - Proof from Jesus that Hell is not Eternal
If you are making a point, do it!!! this is a forum! Short precise to the point, then back it up with reference! I don't believe the same as you, doesn't make me stupid and unread! The link backs you up, just not the way you think. Religion is a fickle beast, Beware!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1451895
United States
07/02/2011 08:56 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Christians, let's get on the same page - Proof from Jesus that Hell is not Eternal
It drives me crazy that people think that Hell is Eternal Torture. It makes people not accept Christianity because some folks actually get excited about people burning forever and ever.

I believed the same thing before, but not anymore. If you're willing to invest 15-20 minutes I can prove it yo you through the Bible. Links coming.

" God calls the state of the ungodly the “second death.” But we presume to edit God and tell people they will not really die, but that they will live on in constant agony and torture. Jesus clearly taught us to “not be afraid of those who can kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can DESTROY BOTH SOUL AND BODY IN HELL” (Matthew 10:28). Jesus uses the word “destroy.” We correct him, as well as God and the Holy Spirit, and substitute the words “live on and on and on.” Whom shall students of God’s word believe? God’s word even makes a distinction between the soul and the body and hints that we need to fear the God who can “destroy” both. He didn’t say to “fear him who can torment and torture the soul and/or body.” He didn’t say to “fear him who can inflict pain to the soul and/or body unendingly without mercy.”
 Quoting: Last of the Maccabees


JESUS NEVER EVER USED the Word HELL in the bible. That is created by other. Now what can destroy both Body and SOUL is NUCLEAR Energy and man has those toys now. BE afraid of MAN WHO RUNS THIS WORLD, nearly all of them are antichrists.

The 2nd DEATH IS permanent. It comes to those who reject eternal life.

There is a distinction between soul and body. YOU ARE NOT YOUR BODY, it is but a temple for your soul to gain experience in living and for you to decide upon eternal life or not.

There are not GODS who destroy the SOUL. You need to fear the man who can kill your soul by nuclear technologies, to repeat.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1419030
United States
07/02/2011 08:57 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Christians, let's get on the same page - Proof from Jesus that Hell is not Eternal
“And they will go out and look upon the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.” (Isaiah 66:24)

Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt. (Daniel 12:2)

Then he will say to those on his left, “Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.” Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life. (Matt. 25:41,46)

If anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. (Rev. 20:15)

For most of mankind’s existence the belief that punishment for unbelievers is eternal was taken for granted. The above verses were the basis for what’s become known as the traditional view of hell.

But recently an alternative, called the conditional view, has come on the scene. This view is based primarily on Rev. 20:12 which says the unsaved dead will be judged according to their works. Proponents of the conditional view interpret this verse to mean that while no unbeliever can go to heaven, their punishment in hell will be based on the quality of their lives while on Earth. They contend that those who’ve led meritorious lives on Earth but aren’t believers will receive less severe punishment for a shorter period of time than say a Hitler or Stalin before being destroyed altogether. They claim that this view makes more sense because it shows God to be fair, making the punishment fit the crime so to speak, before mercifully ending their existence altogether.

On the surface it seems to make sense and some people are more comfortable with this view than the traditional one that appears excessively harsh to them and serves no purpose other than making people suffer. But is the conditional view the result of greater enlightenment in our understanding of Scripture or just another in a long line of attempts to re-cast God’s word into a kinder gentler document as it pertains to those who’ve rejected Him?

My Ways Are Not Your Ways

A closer look reveals that the idea of a conditional hell is decidedly biased toward the world view of unbelievers. Conditional hell proponents say, “All they did is not believe that Jesus died for them. Other than that many unbelievers tried to live a good life and helped a fair amount of people along the way. What did they do to deserve eternal punishment?”

What these people don’t realize of course is that unbelievers will have failed to do the only thing God required of them. Since the cross, God has only asked one thing of us.

Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”

Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.” (John 6:28-29)

If God is going to judge unbelievers by how they’ve done the work He requires of them, it’ll all be over pretty quickly because without belief in Jesus even the good they might have accomplished is considered evil in God’s sight. How do I know that? Read the Lord’s own words;

Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ (Matt. 7:22-23)

So much for the value of a meritorious life!

Unbelievers don’t think rejecting the Lord is a big deal because they don’t realize that their rejection of His sacrifice for their sins has eternal consequences. Because of their unbelief they’re only thinking in terms of a 70-80 year lifespan, not an eternal existence. So let’s take a look at this from the eternal perspective and try to understand how different it is.

First let’s understand that the man who is executed or given life in prison for taking someone’s life is not being taught that murder is wrong. He’s suffering the consequence of his crime by forfeiting the balance of his physical life . It’s an adaptation of the Biblical injunction, a life for a life (Lev. 24:17). On Earth we’re in a physical environment so it’s a physical life for a physical life.

But a person who rejects the pardon God provided for him has in effect murdered his own soul and spirit. Both are eternal, so there has to be an eternal consequence to fit the crime. Our physical bodies are only intended to serve a temporary purpose, and that’s to house the eternal part of us for a little while. Compared to our eternal existence, putting our physical existence to death is a minor infraction. Refusing to accept the Lord’s completed work on the cross as payment in full for our sins is a crime against our eternal life and therefore the only just punishment is eternal punishment.

And That’s Not All

But there’s an even more powerful legal argument for eternal punishment that for centuries was modeled in human existence as well. Until the mid 19th Century it was common practice in many parts of the world to incarcerate a person for failure to pay his or her debts. Jail time was not an alternative method of repayment, it was the consequence they suffered for their inability to pay their debt. No matter how long they were locked up they still owed as much of their debt as they did on their first day behind bars. They could only be freed by repaying the money they owed. Jesus referred to this practice in His parable of the unmerciful servant (Matt. 18:23-35).

It’s the same with our sins. Punishment is not an alternative method unbelievers can use to pay the penalty for their sins, it’s the consequence they’ll suffer for their inability to pay the penalty. No matter how long a person suffers in eternity, they will still owe the same penalty as they did on day one. The only acceptable payment for sin is the blood of an innocent person, and nothing else will suffice. Hebrews 9:22 explains that without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness. Therefore no one can “work off” his or her penalty through suffering.

This is the fatal flaw in the Catholic concept of purgatory. It calls for a person who dies with certain unconfessed sins to “work off” the penalty for those sins through their suffering and the intercessory prayers of living relatives in order to qualify for entry into heaven. But there’s only one way for humans to qualify for entry into heaven and that’s by accepting the blood of Jesus as payment for our sins (John 3:3). Once we do that all of our sins are covered (Colossians 2:13-14). But we have to do it before we die (Hebr. 9:27) or else it’s too late.

It’s also the flaw in the conditional view of hell. If the blood of Jesus is the only way to be released from the penalty for our sins, then there’s no escape for those who reject it. No matter how numerous or noteworthy, the “good works” unbelievers perform during their lifetime can’t be applied to reduce their sentence and neither can the “time served” after they die, so they’ll always owe the same penalty as they did on day one of their incarceration.

The bottom line is the only acceptable payment for our sins is the blood of a sinless man, and the only sinless man is Jesus. He died for all the sins of mankind (John 1:29) but only those who choose to accept His death as payment for their sins can be forgiven. The refusal to accept it leaves everyone else unable to pay and requires that they be incarcerated. Since they’re eternal beings and since they’ll never be able to pay, they’ll have to remain incarcerated forever. Selah 06-25-11
Last of the Maccabees (OP)

User ID: 1415546
United States
07/02/2011 08:57 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Christians, let's get on the same page - Proof from Jesus that Hell is not Eternal
If you are making a point, do it!!! this is a forum! Short precise to the point, then back it up with reference! I don't believe the same as you, doesn't make me stupid and unread! The link backs you up, just not the way you think. Religion is a fickle beast, Beware!
 Quoting: mr2


I'm just saying I don't believe Hell is Eternal. What do you believe? That is a good starting point.
1/2 a million downloads on my Podcast Feeds [link to feeds.feedburner.com]

[link to www.encount3rs.com]

We are fishers of men. Fishermen don't bang gongs and scream to catch fish. They "wisely" bait their hooks and capture the imagination of the fish.
Last of the Maccabees (OP)

User ID: 1415546
United States
07/02/2011 08:59 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Christians, let's get on the same page - Proof from Jesus that Hell is not Eternal
It drives me crazy that people think that Hell is Eternal Torture. It makes people not accept Christianity because some folks actually get excited about people burning forever and ever.

I believed the same thing before, but not anymore. If you're willing to invest 15-20 minutes I can prove it yo you through the Bible. Links coming.

" God calls the state of the ungodly the “second death.” But we presume to edit God and tell people they will not really die, but that they will live on in constant agony and torture. Jesus clearly taught us to “not be afraid of those who can kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can DESTROY BOTH SOUL AND BODY IN HELL” (Matthew 10:28). Jesus uses the word “destroy.” We correct him, as well as God and the Holy Spirit, and substitute the words “live on and on and on.” Whom shall students of God’s word believe? God’s word even makes a distinction between the soul and the body and hints that we need to fear the God who can “destroy” both. He didn’t say to “fear him who can torment and torture the soul and/or body.” He didn’t say to “fear him who can inflict pain to the soul and/or body unendingly without mercy.”
 Quoting: Last of the Maccabees


JESUS NEVER EVER USED the Word HELL in the bible. That is created by other. Now what can destroy both Body and SOUL is NUCLEAR Energy and man has those toys now. BE afraid of MAN WHO RUNS THIS WORLD, nearly all of them are antichrists.

The 2nd DEATH IS permanent. It comes to those who reject eternal life.

There is a distinction between soul and body. YOU ARE NOT YOUR BODY, it is but a temple for your soul to gain experience in living and for you to decide upon eternal life or not.

There are not GODS who destroy the SOUL. You need to fear the man who can kill your soul by nuclear technologies, to repeat.
 Quoting: Nobody in Particular


You're posting in my thread after banning me from posting in yours? OK; I'll play. We're not best of friends; but you banned me right after I said something nice in your thread? Don't get it.
1/2 a million downloads on my Podcast Feeds [link to feeds.feedburner.com]

[link to www.encount3rs.com]

We are fishers of men. Fishermen don't bang gongs and scream to catch fish. They "wisely" bait their hooks and capture the imagination of the fish.
Wingedlion

User ID: 1444952
United States
07/02/2011 09:00 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Christians, let's get on the same page - Proof from Jesus that Hell is not Eternal
I read your long ambiguous dribble, now read this
[link to www.christadelphianals.org]
 Quoting: mr2


Thanks for the link. Not sure how to respond to the perceived insult. We'll just go with God Bless You. hf
 Quoting: Last of the Maccabees



I'm sorry mac, but as an Old friend, I have to disagree with you. The Lake of fire, is eternal Justice...not punishment. Punishment cries for some kind of rehabilitation to occur for the punishment to reach it's peak of justice for the accused, but the Lake of fire is eternal...and the "worm dieth not" in the flames of this spiritual fire, that it's fire stoked with all the sinful deeds of the damned. It is justice, for all the victims of that sin.

Just like the rich ruler who from hell cried out..."Please send Lazarus, that he might dip his finger in water, and quench my tongue for I am tormented in these flames..." The Lake of fire is called "the second death" for it is final, the end of all life for the damned, eternal darkness and torment in the flames of that lake, along with the devil and his angels.

It's real, it's eternal, and it is horrible, more horrible than what we can imagine it to be, but flames like what a physical fire holds??? no, it does not consume, it burns and repeats its torment like a broken record to the sinner who reaps what he has sown. Sorry old frined, but I must respectfully disagree with you.hf
"Glory is what happens when faith overcomes adversity."
Mustis

User ID: 1451673
Finland
07/02/2011 09:00 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Christians, let's get on the same page - Proof from Jesus that Hell is not Eternal
Most near death experiences are positive. Very few are about hell or torment...
Last of the Maccabees (OP)

User ID: 1415546
United States
07/02/2011 09:01 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Christians, let's get on the same page - Proof from Jesus that Hell is not Eternal
“And they will go out and look upon the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.” (Isaiah 66:24)

Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt. (Daniel 12:2)

Then he will say to those on his left, “Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.” Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life. (Matt. 25:41,46)

If anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. (Rev. 20:15)

For most of mankind’s existence the belief that punishment for unbelievers is eternal was taken for granted. The above verses were the basis for what’s become known as the traditional view of hell.

But recently an alternative, called the conditional view, has come on the scene. This view is based primarily on Rev. 20:12 which says the unsaved dead will be judged according to their works. Proponents of the conditional view interpret this verse to mean that while no unbeliever can go to heaven, their punishment in hell will be based on the quality of their lives while on Earth. They contend that those who’ve led meritorious lives on Earth but aren’t believers will receive less severe punishment for a shorter period of time than say a Hitler or Stalin before being destroyed altogether. They claim that this view makes more sense because it shows God to be fair, making the punishment fit the crime so to speak, before mercifully ending their existence altogether.

On the surface it seems to make sense and some people are more comfortable with this view than the traditional one that appears excessively harsh to them and serves no purpose other than making people suffer. But is the conditional view the result of greater enlightenment in our understanding of Scripture or just another in a long line of attempts to re-cast God’s word into a kinder gentler document as it pertains to those who’ve rejected Him?

My Ways Are Not Your Ways

A closer look reveals that the idea of a conditional hell is decidedly biased toward the world view of unbelievers. Conditional hell proponents say, “All they did is not believe that Jesus died for them. Other than that many unbelievers tried to live a good life and helped a fair amount of people along the way. What did they do to deserve eternal punishment?”

What these people don’t realize of course is that unbelievers will have failed to do the only thing God required of them. Since the cross, God has only asked one thing of us.

Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”

Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.” (John 6:28-29)

If God is going to judge unbelievers by how they’ve done the work He requires of them, it’ll all be over pretty quickly because without belief in Jesus even the good they might have accomplished is considered evil in God’s sight. How do I know that? Read the Lord’s own words;

Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ (Matt. 7:22-23)

So much for the value of a meritorious life!

Unbelievers don’t think rejecting the Lord is a big deal because they don’t realize that their rejection of His sacrifice for their sins has eternal consequences. Because of their unbelief they’re only thinking in terms of a 70-80 year lifespan, not an eternal existence. So let’s take a look at this from the eternal perspective and try to understand how different it is.

First let’s understand that the man who is executed or given life in prison for taking someone’s life is not being taught that murder is wrong. He’s suffering the consequence of his crime by forfeiting the balance of his physical life . It’s an adaptation of the Biblical injunction, a life for a life (Lev. 24:17). On Earth we’re in a physical environment so it’s a physical life for a physical life.

But a person who rejects the pardon God provided for him has in effect murdered his own soul and spirit. Both are eternal, so there has to be an eternal consequence to fit the crime. Our physical bodies are only intended to serve a temporary purpose, and that’s to house the eternal part of us for a little while. Compared to our eternal existence, putting our physical existence to death is a minor infraction. Refusing to accept the Lord’s completed work on the cross as payment in full for our sins is a crime against our eternal life and therefore the only just punishment is eternal punishment.

And That’s Not All

But there’s an even more powerful legal argument for eternal punishment that for centuries was modeled in human existence as well. Until the mid 19th Century it was common practice in many parts of the world to incarcerate a person for failure to pay his or her debts. Jail time was not an alternative method of repayment, it was the consequence they suffered for their inability to pay their debt. No matter how long they were locked up they still owed as much of their debt as they did on their first day behind bars. They could only be freed by repaying the money they owed. Jesus referred to this practice in His parable of the unmerciful servant (Matt. 18:23-35).

It’s the same with our sins. Punishment is not an alternative method unbelievers can use to pay the penalty for their sins, it’s the consequence they’ll suffer for their inability to pay the penalty. No matter how long a person suffers in eternity, they will still owe the same penalty as they did on day one. The only acceptable payment for sin is the blood of an innocent person, and nothing else will suffice. Hebrews 9:22 explains that without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness. Therefore no one can “work off” his or her penalty through suffering.

This is the fatal flaw in the Catholic concept of purgatory. It calls for a person who dies with certain unconfessed sins to “work off” the penalty for those sins through their suffering and the intercessory prayers of living relatives in order to qualify for entry into heaven. But there’s only one way for humans to qualify for entry into heaven and that’s by accepting the blood of Jesus as payment for our sins (John 3:3). Once we do that all of our sins are covered (Colossians 2:13-14). But we have to do it before we die (Hebr. 9:27) or else it’s too late.

It’s also the flaw in the conditional view of hell. If the blood of Jesus is the only way to be released from the penalty for our sins, then there’s no escape for those who reject it. No matter how numerous or noteworthy, the “good works” unbelievers perform during their lifetime can’t be applied to reduce their sentence and neither can the “time served” after they die, so they’ll always owe the same penalty as they did on day one of their incarceration.

The bottom line is the only acceptable payment for our sins is the blood of a sinless man, and the only sinless man is Jesus. He died for all the sins of mankind (John 1:29) but only those who choose to accept His death as payment for their sins can be forgiven. The refusal to accept it leaves everyone else unable to pay and requires that they be incarcerated. Since they’re eternal beings and since they’ll never be able to pay, they’ll have to remain incarcerated forever. Selah 06-25-11
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1419030


You didn't read the article.
1/2 a million downloads on my Podcast Feeds [link to feeds.feedburner.com]

[link to www.encount3rs.com]

We are fishers of men. Fishermen don't bang gongs and scream to catch fish. They "wisely" bait their hooks and capture the imagination of the fish.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1421776
United States
07/02/2011 09:02 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Christians, let's get on the same page - Proof from Jesus that Hell is not Eternal
Eternal flames and damnation is not fair for many lifetimes of evil. But it will seem like eternity for those who are punished.
Last of the Maccabees (OP)

User ID: 1415546
United States
07/02/2011 09:04 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Christians, let's get on the same page - Proof from Jesus that Hell is not Eternal
I read your long ambiguous dribble, now read this
[link to www.christadelphianals.org]
 Quoting: mr2


Thanks for the link. Not sure how to respond to the perceived insult. We'll just go with God Bless You. hf
 Quoting: Last of the Maccabees



I'm sorry mac, but as an Old friend, I have to disagree with you. The Lake of fire, is eternal Justice...not punishment. Punishment cries for some kind of rehabilitation to occur for the punishment to reach it's peak of justice for the accused, but the Lake of fire is eternal...and the "worm dieth not" in the flames of this spiritual fire, that it's fire stoked with all the sinful deeds of the damned. It is justice, for all the victims of that sin.

Just like the rich ruler who from hell cried out..."Please send Lazarus, that he might dip his finger in water, and quench my tongue for I am tormented in these flames..." The Lake of fire is called "the second death" for it is final, the end of all life for the damned, eternal darkness and torment in the flames of that lake, along with the devil and his angels.

It's real, it's eternal, and it is horrible, more horrible than what we can imagine it to be, but flames like what a physical fire holds??? no, it does not consume, it burns and repeats its torment like a broken record to the sinner who reaps what he has sown. Sorry old frined, but I must respectfully disagree with you.hf
 Quoting: Wingedlion


We can respectfully disagree my friend. You're not my target audience anyway. I'm fishing for folks who won't believe in Christ because Eternal Hell turns them off. Let me ask you this. Did you read the articles my friend?
1/2 a million downloads on my Podcast Feeds [link to feeds.feedburner.com]

[link to www.encount3rs.com]

We are fishers of men. Fishermen don't bang gongs and scream to catch fish. They "wisely" bait their hooks and capture the imagination of the fish.
Shield
User ID: 1443081
United States
07/02/2011 09:05 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Christians, let's get on the same page - Proof from Jesus that Hell is not Eternal
Most near death experiences are positive. Very few are about hell or torment...
 Quoting: Mustis


I had 2 NDEs in 1997. I have never felt
more alive than when they were happening.
Last of the Maccabees (OP)

User ID: 1415546
United States
07/02/2011 09:06 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Christians, let's get on the same page - Proof from Jesus that Hell is not Eternal
Most near death experiences are positive. Very few are about hell or torment...
 Quoting: Mustis


hf I definitely agree with that Mustis
1/2 a million downloads on my Podcast Feeds [link to feeds.feedburner.com]

[link to www.encount3rs.com]

We are fishers of men. Fishermen don't bang gongs and scream to catch fish. They "wisely" bait their hooks and capture the imagination of the fish.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1215410
United States
07/02/2011 09:06 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Christians, let's get on the same page - Proof from Jesus that Hell is not Eternal
Have you read or listened to the Book of Enoch OP?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1451895
United States
07/02/2011 09:07 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Christians, let's get on the same page - Proof from Jesus that Hell is not Eternal
Link # 2

Thoughts on Punishment of the Wicked.

[link to www.godsmessageontheweb.net]

Podcast - [link to www.godsmessageontheweb.net]

SCRIPTURAL SUPPORT FOR ANNIHILATION—

There are numerous scriptures that seem to clearly indicate that there is no eternal life for the wicked (not even in Hell). Here are quite a few that I found from the PC Study Bible after doing a search for the words “eternal life” in the concordance. These references are in Biblical order, and each is from the New American Standard Bible (Updated Edition) unless otherwise stated.
Matt 19:16—”And someone came to Him and said, ‘Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?’”

This man spoke of obtaining eternal life. It wasn’t as if he already possessed it. Preachers today would probably say to him “Son, you already have eternal life; it’s just a matter of where you will spend it.” But Jesus never said that.

Matt 19:29-30—”And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or farms for My name’s sake, will receive many times as much, and will inherit eternal life.”

They will inherit eternal life. This indicates that not everyone has it already.
Matt 25:46—”These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

This verse admittedly uses the phrase “eternal punishment,” but it is juxtaposed against the phrase “eternal life.” Death by annihilation in the Lake of Fire could certainly be called “eternal punishment” because it is eternal in its consequences. Death on earth is only temporal because everyone will be raised again at the resurrection. Death in the Lake of Fire, however, is eternal: there is no reversing it and no coming back from it. If Jesus meant for the punishment to last eternally, he probably wouldn’t have contrasted it with the phrase “eternal life” which is clearly meant only for believers. If Jesus had intended what most churches believe he did with this verse, he should have said, “Both the righteous and the unrighteous will go away to eternal life, but the unrighteous will spend it being tortured while the righteous spend theirs in paradise.”
 Quoting: Last of the Maccabees


The soul can be annihilated on orders of the higher courts of Orvonton, the Superuniverse regime. there has to be great wickedness and also the soul (descending (angels) or ascending) has to AGREE to be annihilated, by refusing to under a journey of restitution. many in the Lucifer rebellion, including Lucifer himself chose this, the end of their eternal being. There is no Lake of Fire. But nuclear detonations certainly would look that way!!!!!

There is not eternal punishment either. the soul in due time will either choose to rehabilitate itself, or will choose annihilation. The ways of God are of mercy and no one is annihilated except by their own choice. The universe are managed, and there are court systems.

The unrighteous simply have to live on low class worlds like this one And the unrighteous of this world, because of the ascension get to MOVE and some will be moving to special prison worlds far worse than this world. Most souls on this planet are in fact galactic thugs and Lucifer rebellion folks who are imprisoned here. GAIA is ascending herself. She petitioned to no longer have her body serve as a prison ward and that was granted, and those who are still separate from God will be moving to another prison.

You do not live on the higher worlds (heaven), until you have earned the right to be there. That is both by RULE and by Nature, because the wicked cannot live by natures laws in better places. Darkened man is given his eternal life on prison worlds until he either changes his mind and grows up or he choses to revoke his eternal life. There are darkened ones who have lives millions of years on prison planets by their choice.
Last of the Maccabees (OP)

User ID: 1415546
United States
07/02/2011 09:07 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Christians, let's get on the same page - Proof from Jesus that Hell is not Eternal
Most near death experiences are positive. Very few are about hell or torment...
 Quoting: Mustis


I had 2 NDEs in 1997. I have never felt
more alive than when they were happening.
 Quoting: Shield 1443081

hf
Shield do you have these on a web site anywhere? I would love to hear more
1/2 a million downloads on my Podcast Feeds [link to feeds.feedburner.com]

[link to www.encount3rs.com]

We are fishers of men. Fishermen don't bang gongs and scream to catch fish. They "wisely" bait their hooks and capture the imagination of the fish.
Last of the Maccabees (OP)

User ID: 1415546
United States
07/02/2011 09:10 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Christians, let's get on the same page - Proof from Jesus that Hell is not Eternal
Link # 2

Thoughts on Punishment of the Wicked.

[link to www.godsmessageontheweb.net]

Podcast - [link to www.godsmessageontheweb.net]

SCRIPTURAL SUPPORT FOR ANNIHILATION—

There are numerous scriptures that seem to clearly indicate that there is no eternal life for the wicked (not even in Hell). Here are quite a few that I found from the PC Study Bible after doing a search for the words “eternal life” in the concordance. These references are in Biblical order, and each is from the New American Standard Bible (Updated Edition) unless otherwise stated.
Matt 19:16—”And someone came to Him and said, ‘Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?’”

This man spoke of obtaining eternal life. It wasn’t as if he already possessed it. Preachers today would probably say to him “Son, you already have eternal life; it’s just a matter of where you will spend it.” But Jesus never said that.

Matt 19:29-30—”And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or farms for My name’s sake, will receive many times as much, and will inherit eternal life.”

They will inherit eternal life. This indicates that not everyone has it already.
Matt 25:46—”These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

This verse admittedly uses the phrase “eternal punishment,” but it is juxtaposed against the phrase “eternal life.” Death by annihilation in the Lake of Fire could certainly be called “eternal punishment” because it is eternal in its consequences. Death on earth is only temporal because everyone will be raised again at the resurrection. Death in the Lake of Fire, however, is eternal: there is no reversing it and no coming back from it. If Jesus meant for the punishment to last eternally, he probably wouldn’t have contrasted it with the phrase “eternal life” which is clearly meant only for believers. If Jesus had intended what most churches believe he did with this verse, he should have said, “Both the righteous and the unrighteous will go away to eternal life, but the unrighteous will spend it being tortured while the righteous spend theirs in paradise.”
 Quoting: Last of the Maccabees


The soul can be annihilated on orders of the higher courts of Orvonton, the Superuniverse regime. there has to be great wickedness and also the soul (descending (angels) or ascending) has to AGREE to be annihilated, by refusing to under a journey of restitution. many in the Lucifer rebellion, including Lucifer himself chose this, the end of their eternal being. There is no Lake of Fire. But nuclear detonations certainly would look that way!!!!!

There is not eternal punishment either. the soul in due time will either choose to rehabilitate itself, or will choose annihilation. The ways of God are of mercy and no one is annihilated except by their own choice. The universe are managed, and there are court systems.

The unrighteous simply have to live on low class worlds like this one And the unrighteous of this world, because of the ascension get to MOVE and some will be moving to special prison worlds far worse than this world. Most souls on this planet are in fact galactic thugs and Lucifer rebellion folks who are imprisoned here. GAIA is ascending herself. She petitioned to no longer have her body serve as a prison ward and that was granted, and those who are still separate from God will be moving to another prison.

You do not live on the higher worlds (heaven), until you have earned the right to be there. That is both by RULE and by Nature, because the wicked cannot live by natures laws in better places. Darkened man is given his eternal life on prison worlds until he either changes his mind and grows up or he choses to revoke his eternal life. There are darkened ones who have lives millions of years on prison planets by their choice.
 Quoting: Nobody in Particular


You got some truth; and some lies, the most dangerous combination possible. hf
1/2 a million downloads on my Podcast Feeds [link to feeds.feedburner.com]

[link to www.encount3rs.com]

We are fishers of men. Fishermen don't bang gongs and scream to catch fish. They "wisely" bait their hooks and capture the imagination of the fish.
Last of the Maccabees (OP)

User ID: 1415546
United States
07/02/2011 09:11 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Christians, let's get on the same page - Proof from Jesus that Hell is not Eternal
Have you read or listened to the Book of Enoch OP?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1215410


I have; We're not fallen angels though. Am I reading you correct? If not, please elaborate.
1/2 a million downloads on my Podcast Feeds [link to feeds.feedburner.com]

[link to www.encount3rs.com]

We are fishers of men. Fishermen don't bang gongs and scream to catch fish. They "wisely" bait their hooks and capture the imagination of the fish.
ApocalypseWars.com

User ID: 1280429
United States
07/02/2011 09:11 AM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Christians, let's get on the same page - Proof from Jesus that Hell is not Eternal
OP, I am very fluent on the Bible and the mysteries contained in it. Hell is not a firey place you go to in order to burn for your sins, but it can be your current life in which your soul is tormented by the sin your animal nature is creating as your sould within cries for help because it is in hell. Hence, you are in Hades.

Hell is a state of being that can be your life now while you are living a hell on earth and also your soul's karma for partaking in living a life of the flesh and refuting that of your divine soul. Hence, your next life may start out as another trip in hell.

It's an allegorical place for your soul and not an actual physical location you go to for sinning.

Last Edited by Gnostic Warrior on 07/02/2011 09:13 AM
Regards,

Moe

[link to GnosticWarrior.com] THERE IS A WAR FOR YOUR SOUL!

[link to www.LoanSafe.org] FIGHTING BIG BANKS!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1451895
United States
07/02/2011 09:11 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Christians, let's get on the same page - Proof from Jesus that Hell is not Eternal
Eternal flames and damnation is not fair for many lifetimes of evil. But it will seem like eternity for those who are punished.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1421776


They are punished by keeping them on prison worlds. Most will eventually tire of being nasty and choose rehabilitation. Those that refuse rehabilitation and by their own will are annihilated. This is always determined by the Courts of the Superuniverse, in our case, the Counts of Orvonton. This is because the courts of the local universes under a Creator Son (Michael of Nebadon in our case who IS HERE (returned Jesus, one of them) is not allowed to judge those whom he created, as to whether they should receive the death penalty, death of the soul.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1451911
United States
07/02/2011 09:12 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Christians, let's get on the same page - Proof from Jesus that Hell is not Eternal
I wish this were true, but my will is not God's will.
At the last judgment when the resurrected lost are judged,
they along with Lucifer and all his rebel angels are
cast into the Lake of Fire.
There they will be tormeted eternally.
That means forever.

Read and study the difference between physical death
and spiritual death.

MOST of the population of earth has been and always will
be dead. Learn what that means and you'll understand.

As for this thread, I'll let the dead bury their dead.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1451895
United States
07/02/2011 09:14 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Christians, let's get on the same page - Proof from Jesus that Hell is not Eternal
OP, I am very fluent on the Bible and the mysteries contained in it. Hell is not a firey place you go to in order to burn for your sins, but it can be your current life in which your soul is tormented by the sin your animal nature is creating as your would within cries for help as it is in hell. Hence, you are in Hades.

Hell is a state of being that can be your life now while you are living a hell on earth and also your soul's karma for partaking in living a life of the flesh and refuting that of your divine soul. Hence, your next life may start out as another trip in hell.
 Quoting: ApocalypseWars.com


This is a Hades planet. A prison ward and most here are still in prison. The teaching of Jesus about he is the way, is a statement to the prisoners, that they cannot reach SOURCE without going thru his schooling system. You do not skip grades in the schools of the universe. You stay in prison until you work your way out and that way out is thru the Creator Son who created you.

I am going to go get the most recent statement by Michael of Nebadon on the topic. it is most illuminating and is directed the dark ones imprisoned on this world.
Shield
User ID: 1443081
United States
07/02/2011 09:14 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Christians, let's get on the same page - Proof from Jesus that Hell is not Eternal
Food for thought. TPTB including religious
leaders have had centuries to edit the bible
to support any and every lie they could come
up with to keep the "flock" in fear,guilt
ridden and under control.

There was a thread a few days ago that read up
to 50% of the bible today being a fraud.
CuJoe
User ID: 1402102
United States
07/02/2011 09:14 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Christians, let's get on the same page - Proof from Jesus that Hell is not Eternal
Articles written by bible historians make a
good case for hell just meant a grave untill
Dante wrote The Inferno.

Religious leaders that read the play decided
the lake of fire stuff was a great way to
scare the flock into keeping the tithes
rolling in and under control.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1443081


Have you lost your mind ?? ... lake of fire was around long before Dante showed up on the scene .. just saying =)

hf
unknown
User ID: 1450957
United States
07/02/2011 09:15 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Christians, let's get on the same page - Proof from Jesus that Hell is not Eternal
I read your long ambiguous dribble, now read this
[link to www.christadelphianals.org]
 Quoting: mr2


Thanks for the link. Not sure how to respond to the perceived insult. We'll just go with God Bless You. hf
 Quoting: Last of the Maccabees



I'm sorry mac, but as an Old friend, I have to disagree with you. The Lake of fire, is eternal Justice...not punishment. Punishment cries for some kind of rehabilitation to occur for the punishment to reach it's peak of justice for the accused, but the Lake of fire is eternal...and the "worm dieth not" in the flames of this spiritual fire, that it's fire stoked with all the sinful deeds of the damned. It is justice, for all the victims of that sin.

Just like the rich ruler who from hell cried out..."Please send Lazarus, that he might dip his finger in water, and quench my tongue for I am tormented in these flames..." The Lake of fire is called "the second death" for it is final, the end of all life for the damned, eternal darkness and torment in the flames of that lake, along with the devil and his angels.

It's real, it's eternal, and it is horrible, more horrible than what we can imagine it to be, but flames like what a physical fire holds??? no, it does not consume, it burns and repeats its torment like a broken record to the sinner who reaps what he has sown. Sorry old frined, but I must respectfully disagree with you.hf
 Quoting: Wingedlion


It's eternal in the sense that it is forever, ie; permanent.

When someone receives capitol punishment that ruling is permanent but the act itself is not.