As A Christian, I'd Like To Tell Both Believers & Unbelievers That "Hell" And The Concept of Hell Are Not In The Bible.

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Jesus tells when hell fire is in Matthew 13. And here are some free videos on topic...

[link to studies.itiswritten.com]

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Here is the problem with Lazarus and the Rich man...

What are the criteria for becoming a "Lazarus" or a "rich man?"

Well, if we play by the rules as fundemental Christians should adhere to their own teaching, we'd believe that it's belief.

My question to you then if this is real is how did Lazarus believe if the Cross had not yet happened at that time? How then did Lazarus avoid the rich man's fate? There's nothing there in that parable about personal faith. There is nothing there about about believing in Jesus. Rather, Lazarus is saved and the Rich Man is damned because Lazarus was poor while the Rich Man was rich or Lazarus wore ratty clothes while the Rich Man wore purple or Lazarus was full of sores while the Rich Man lived comfortably or Lazarus went hungry while the Rich Man had food and Lazarus got evil things in his life while the Rich Man got good.

Jesus was speaking in parables. It wasn't a real documented story that He was foretelling.

For ever and ever....


Amen.




:)

With the exception of direct commandments (do not kill, do not steal, etc), the Bible wholly is parables. What we're left is to decipher what they mean, and what they mean is further instruction on how to be God-fearing men and women. If you disregard parables and disregard what Jesus preached by saying it was being spoken to that audience only (is this was the case, if it's not relevant to us, why is it in there?), what is there left in the Bible to adhere to?

This makes no sense.

Last Edited by FieryFlies on 07/14/2011 01:51 PM

EXCUSE ME EXCUSE ME but do all you people realize you are arguing and debating a WORK OF FICTION like it's real?

There is no way to know if anyting at all in the entire bible or the scrolls they came from are real.

Do you people not realize how rediculous this is? You are arguing over a book that was translated from scrolls that were found in caves!!! COME ON PEOPLE WAKE UP

You are taking everything on faith from a book, A BOOK. That comes from something someone found. COME ON. I feel like slapping every brain dead christian I see. Why don't you believe every book that comes out?

You all only belive this one book in the face of THOUSANDS of other religions, opinion's and story's. The bible is just a collection of story's, that's it. Learn from it yes, just as you would the illiad or aesop's fables. But don't debate like it's real that's just silly.

Your post is full of ignorance. Go educate yourself.

Remember, Jesus said, "I was no commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

Also, Romans 15:8 "For I am saying that Christ has become the Servant of the Circumcision, for the sake of the truth of God, to con firm the patriarchal promises."

Those promises were the ones God made to Abraham centuries before, that His seed would eventually rule the earth. That would be the millennial kingdom.

Every red-letter threat is concerning the people of Israel, period. It's not heaven or hell as we've made it out to be.

Also, I appreciate your genuine sincerity. :)

Last Edited by King James on 07/14/2011 01:55 PM

The answer to this question rests in the authority of the Scripture, because the Bible certainly teaches us of a very real and very terrible place of punishment for those who keep Christ out of their lives.

It's very sad to me that we so often hear people speak of Hell lightly. To many it is something to be joked about, or a curse word used casually.

The fact of the reality of Hell is taught throughout the Bible in innumerable passages. The Lord Jesus Christ Himself probably had more to say about it than anyone else. He was a teacher with the most impressive credentials--a sinless life, a miraculous ministry, and an empty tomb that could not hold Him.

Christ is often spoken of as "Gentle Jesus, meek and mild," but that label hardly fits with the language we find in Mark chapter nine as He affirms the fact and reality of Hell. We read these strong statements:

And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
-Mark 9:43-48



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The answer to this question rests in the authority of the Scripture, because the Bible certainly teaches us of a very real and very terrible place of punishment for those who keep Christ out of their lives.

It's very sad to me that we so often hear people speak of Hell lightly. To many it is something to be joked about, or a curse word used casually.

The fact of the reality of Hell is taught throughout the Bible in innumerable passages. The Lord Jesus Christ Himself probably had more to say about it than anyone else. He was a teacher with the most impressive credentials--a sinless life, a miraculous ministry, and an empty tomb that could not hold Him.

Christ is often spoken of as "Gentle Jesus, meek and mild," but that label hardly fits with the language we find in Mark chapter nine as He affirms the fact and reality of Hell. We read these strong statements:

And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
-Mark 9:43-48

In another passage Christ calls the Scribes and Pharisees a “generation of vipers,” and warns them, "How will you escape the damnation of Hell?" (Matt. 23:33) Those are pretty strong words from the Lord Jesus. He laid it on the line. He told it like it is.

When someone questions the fact and reality of Hell, he's actually questioning the authority of the Bible, and the authority of the Lord Jesus Christ Himself. The Christian faith is all tied up together, and when it is attacked at one point, it becomes vulnerable at all. It holds together beautifully.

If Christ is the Son of God, and if He came into time from eternity, and came into the world from Heaven and died and rose again from the dead, then anything He ever said on any subject is worth hearing and ought to be heeded. And is really to be received without question. So people who have problems with the fact and reality of Hell sometimes do not realize that their real problem is with the person of the Lord Jesus Christ and who He is and why He came to the world.

There are two texts of Scripture that suggest to me that Hell involves everlasting punishment. Matthew 25:46 sums up the judgment on the “sheep and goats” with the words. "And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." The same word aionion (eternal) is used to describe the punishment of the wicked and the blessing of the righteous. Whatever we say about the duration of “eternal” life for believers must be said about “eternal” punishment for unbelievers. Since “life” for believers is everlasting (John 10:28), so must be the punishment for unbelievers.

In a second text, Revelation 20:10, John describes those in the “lake of fire” being "tormented day and night forever and ever." The expression day and night is used in Revelation to express the concept of “forever.” The lake of fire is described in Revelation 19:20 as a place that "burns with brimstone." In the saddest verse in the Bible, John declares that anyone whose name is not written in the book of life is "thrown into the lake of fire" (Revelation 20:15).

The doctrine of eternal punishment for those who have rejected Christ appears to be thoroughly biblical. This is not an easy teaching or one that brings us joy. But the unpleasantness of a doctrine should not cause us to deny biblical truth.

Mistranslated buddy. you are the one that has been deceived. I mean get real about it. You think the "Devil" is going to try and decive people and the very end? Or do you think he would start deceiving everyone at the start. So all dont have a clue in the end. THink about it. Challange your own beleifs before you start souting them off. Good post OP.

Mistranslated buddy. you are the one that has been deceived. I mean get real about it. You think the "Devil" is going to try and decive people and the very end? Or do you think he would start deceiving everyone at the start. So all dont have a clue in the end. THink about it. Challange your own beleifs before you start souting them off. Good post OP.

I find it a bit ironic that you're posting Scriptures from a Bible that's not the KJV. Surely you are aware of the word changes that are made in different versions?

'Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister (not servant) of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises [made] unto the fathers:'

See the difference?

And if every red-letter threat is directly towards those of Israel, how is any of it relevant to you? If the entire Bible is directed towards those who are Jewish, where does that leave the rest of us?

Romans 2:

28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither [is that] circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.

The entire Bible applies to all of us. . . Jewish, Israelites or Hebrew, black or blue, it doesn't matter what you are.

Last Edited by FieryFlies on 07/14/2011 02:04 PM

The concept of hell exists due to mistranslation. Everything you've posted there hinges on a gross mistranslation of the words I've already posted.

Here are your options.

Tartaroo = Tartarus - A place angels are chained awaiting judgement.
Geenna = Gehenna - A physical location on earth.
Hades = Unseen - To be hidden... The words hell, heel, hole hull, helmet, cell, cellar, holster, and hold (as of a ship) are all derived from the word "helan." By examining the words it's easy to see how being hidden on concealed fits them all.

I'm sorry, but those are the best translations of the Original Greek to their parallel English meaning.

Understanding Greek.

Jesus only spoke of two places that we mistake for "hell." Geenna or Gehenna I've already touched on (physical location on earth) and the other is Hades.

Let me explain Greek and the word Hades.

The first part of the word "Ha" means "un." "Ades" means perceived. So you would think it would be a simple translation, right? And that translation would be "un-perceived" or "un-seen." Well. Somehow it became "hell."

The truth is, Hades is more accurately translated to "unseen" or "unperceived." Meaning, that it's any aspect of the universe that evades our 5 senses.


I'm sorry so many Christians want to believe in a hell of damnation and torment. But scripturally, it's not there and it doesn't take a scholar to figure it out.

I never said the Bible doesn't apply to all of us. I said Jesus' threats are directed to one people and one people only. Huge, massive, ginromous difference. ;-)

Yes of coarse it was a parable and it was very clear. Having read the parable straight from Jesus mouth, you have inserted your own questions and gone off on a tangent that Jesus did not in self justified misdirection and denial. Your argument is with Jesus. God help you.

Thanks for sharing your views about Hell OP.

IMHO, Hell does not bring a man to the cross. A man comes to the cross when the Father leads him to The Son. The doctrine of Hell does not convince a man of his illness. It only serves to insight the kind of contention we see here.

We are called to share the good news. That Jesus Christ is come and has given us everlasting life through his ministry and mission. That through his death and ressurection and giving of the Holy Spirit we have been given an everlasting life and an inheritance of unspeakable glory. One which man cannot fathom. That all whom The Father leads to The Son will come to The Son and none of them will be lost.

Hell is not good news, whether it is annialation or tomrnet (either periodic or eternal). Who wishes to wager their soul on the doctrine of Hell.

Scripture speaks of the surety of Christ. So we should focus on speaking of the surety of Christ. This is truly good news.

Thanks for reading my humble views.

Blessings and prayers for you.

In his love.

peace,

So where does the concept of eternal hell come from? . . . The Greek hades . . . Where?

Read Revelation 20 OP, Hell is not eternal, it lasts for 1000 yrs, then the wicked will be raised up to be judged by the Word of God, then Hell and death will be sent to the Lake of Fire.

Hell is not eternal, but there is a Hell so you are wrong to say there is NOT a hell because THERE is, and Jesus talked about hell. Anyway, read Revelation 20, God bless.

I should of said, the Lake of Fire is the Second Death(rev.20) I see there is some confusion about that, so there you have it folks.

May God Bless you all.

Until someone comes in here and tells me why "hell" as we all believe it to be is more accurate a translation of "unseen" or "unperceived," from the Greek word "Hades." Nobody is convincing me of anything.

The problem is, you cannot do it.

You have two options here. Jesus spoke two words that we mistake to mean "hell." Geenna and Hades.

I've explained both. And if you believe Hades is better translated into "hell." When simple Greek research proves otherwise. Then you're believing a lie.

Someone explain to me please. How either of these are better translated into a place we would call, "hell."

And your argument is based on speculation. If it's a parable of how to become a believer, why no mention of that in the parable???

I mean, talk about confusing!

You tell me. It's not in the original Greek. Getting "hell" from the word "hades" is a negligent and gross mis-translation.

Jimmy,

GEHENNA

ga-hen'-a (geenna (see Grimm-Thayer, under the word)): Gehenna is a transliteration from the Aramaic form of the Hebrew ge-hinnom, "valley of Hinnom." This latter form, however, is rare in the Old Testament, the prevailing name being "the valley of the son of Hinnom." Septuagint usually translates; where it transliterates the form is different from Gehenna and varies. In the New Testament the correct form is Gee'nna with the accent on the penult, not Ge'enna. There is no reason to assume that Hinnom is other than a plain patronymic, although it has been proposed to find in it the corruption of the name of an idol (EB, II, 2071). In the New Testament (King James Version margin) Gehenna occurs in Mt 5:22,29,30; 10:28; 18:9; 23:15,33; Mk 9:43,15,47; Lk 12:5; Jas 3:6. In all of these it designates the place of eternal punishment of the wicked, generally in connection with the final judgment. It is associated with fire as the source of torment. Both body and soul are cast into it. This is not to be explained on the principle that the New Testament speaks metaphorically of the state after death in terms of the body; it presupposes the resurrection. In the King James Version and the Revised Version (British and American) Gehenna is rendered by "hell" (see ESCHATOLOGY OF THE NEW TESTAMENT). That "the valley of Hinnom" became the technical designation for the place of final punishment was due to two causes. In the first place the valley had been the seat of the idolatrous worship of Molech, to whom children were immolated by fire (2 Ch 28:3; 33:6). Secondly, on account of these practices the place was defiled by King Josiah (2 Ki 23:10), and became in consequence associated in prophecy with the judgment to be visited upon the people (Jer 7:32). The fact, also, that the city's offal was collected there may have helped to render the name synonymous with extreme defilement. Topographically the identification of the valley of Hinnom is still uncertain. It has been in turn identified with the depression on the western and southern side of Jerusalem, with the middle valley, and with the valley to the E. Compare EB, II, 2071; DCG, I, 636; RE3, VI.
Geerhardus Vos

From the G section of this encyclopedia [link to www.bible-history.com]


In other-words Jimmy, Jesus was saying "it is the place you never want to be", I trust his judgement.

op i applaud your courage in posting this . it is refreshing to hear from a christian who has actually done some real research rather than hours spent poring over the bible solely for justification rather than inspiration.

I did not speculate. I related the straight and plain words of Jesus on face value which you are ignoring.

I did not say (nor did Jesus in that parable) that it was a parable of how to become a believer. Again, you have inserted your own idea that was not there to begin with.

Why no mention of how to become a believer in that specific parable? Because how to believe wasn't the point of that parable. It was about the consequences.

Confusion is what happens when add to what is not there and then argue from that misdirection against the truth that is there. That's exactly what you are doing.

Yes, and He was speaking to the Israelites about the physical earthly place I just mentioned. He was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the House of Israel.

The consequences of what? Being Rich? Wearing ratty clothes? Consequences for what? What did Lazarus do right and what did the Rich Man do wrong? From the parable answer those two questions.

You will quickly realize how much you have to read into it to make it anything more than a parable.

Oh stop! What you are doing is giving Gentiles a false green light "to do as as thou will", I suppose you will get to Catch-22 soon. It is your life, you are leading people to game the system. Millstones are for grinding meal.....keep it that way. Ok?

The reason the rich man and the beggar were in the places they were in is not addressed in that specific parable because that was not what that specific story was about.

You can not prove a negative, and since that is your argument it must be that your intention is not the truth but to mislead.

I'm repeating myself now. This is pointless.

Last Edited by Resister on 07/14/2011 02:57 PM