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As A Christian, I'd Like To Tell Both Believers & Unbelievers That "Hell" And The Concept of Hell Are Not In The Bible.

 
FieryFlies

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07/14/2011 06:58 PM
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Re: As A Christian, I'd Like To Tell Both Believers & Unbelievers That "Hell" And The Concept of Hell Are Not In The Bible.
Mark 3-
28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:
29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:

Damnation:
krisis
kree'-sis
(Subjectively or objectively, for or against); by extension a tribunal; by implication justice (specifically divine law): - accusation, condemnation, damnation, judgment.
 Quoting: FieryFlies



Let me cut to the chase and ask you directly...

When it is said that the human being who
blasphemes against the holy ghost is:

"in danger of eternal damnation"

do you think that damnation means everlasting as in forever
and ever? Or, does it mean that the actual meaning
is derived from a judgment (the very same final judgment you cite) as being forever, not being forever tortured....

Meaning: you will be dead forever and ever

*which indicates* ONE death that lasts forever.

BIG difference.

So please answer the question.
 Quoting: SelflessnHumble


The damnation.
Eternal (ever lasting) damnation,
Damnation:
dam·na·tion (dm-nshn)
n.
1. The act of damning or the condition of being damned.
2. a. Condemnation to everlasting punishment; doom.
b. Everlasting punishment.


Punishment:
pun·ish·ment (pnsh-mnt)
n.
1.
a. The act or an instance of punishing.
b. The condition of being punished.


You are eternally punished for your actions. As to what that 'punishment' is. . is entirely up to debate. I imagine it various from person to person.
 Quoting: FieryFlies



You still don't get it and I'm not even trying to be
insulting as I know I can be.

A murder gets eternally punished for his/her actions
whether it is a LIFE sentence or death.

The fact you concede interpretation is KEY is interesting no?

The bible (after spelling every other nastiness that awaits us) God, being as infallible and perfect as he is didn't think that he would have to grace us with a definition that would ring absolute and unequivocal...
 Quoting: SelflessnHumble

What part of 'open for interpretation' is so difficult to understand?

Damnation means everlasting punishment. That's pretty simple. All of this is very simple to understand.

It all means something different to everyone.

No level of 'debate' will sway either parties participating in this thread. . so pretty much there's no point in continuing this any further.

I am quite finished. coffee4
A Stubborn Libertarian. Neither left, nor right, A Proud Texan.

Veritas Liberabit Vos.
Mirea

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07/14/2011 07:15 PM
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Re: As A Christian, I'd Like To Tell Both Believers & Unbelievers That "Hell" And The Concept of Hell Are Not In The Bible.
So where does the concept of eternal hell come from? . . . The Greek hades . . . Where?
 Quoting: George B


You tell me. It's not in the original Greek. Getting "hell" from the word "hades" is a negligent and gross mis-translation.
 Quoting: King James


[link to en.wikipedia.org]

The hell concept is of pagan origin.
Everything is OK
[link to www.youtube.com]
Anonymous Coward
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07/14/2011 07:18 PM
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Re: As A Christian, I'd Like To Tell Both Believers & Unbelievers That "Hell" And The Concept of Hell Are Not In The Bible.
facts interlaced with lies does not equal truth.
 Quoting: SelflessnHumble

You kind of messed up the quotes there a little bit. lol
Stupid quoting system.

There are no lies in the Bible. Those are the definitions of the original words. Quite a few people here have posted verses that say 'everlasting' and 'for ever'. Which have the definition of 'perpetual' and 'perpetual's English definition means never ending.

Now, if you want to hop on the 'forever doesn't mean forever' band wagon, by all means, be my guest, however, the definitions of the original words are obviously, open for interpretation. And apparently, the OP has decided on the 'for ever doesn't mean never ending in Greek or Hebrew.' and he's entitled to that. However, he has lost some brownie points by arguing the original meanings of the words by quoting more massively mis-interpreted versions of the Bible. Which I personally find ironic, as we're debating the true meaning of the Greek and Hebrew words.

It doesn't mean those who believe it's never ending are lying.
 Quoting: FieryFlies


The thing you are failing to acknowledge is that
there is this elusive word that MANY people overlook
when things like personal interpretation seem to take hold of people's beliefs, instead of using sound judgment and critical thinking...for example: CONTEXT.

Revelation does not state that humans will suffer
the same eternal suffering as the beast, false prophet and the devil will....

^^^ This FACT cannot be disputed....Check.

2nd, Your ignorance is leaking through your words.

First off, I have never hopped on any "bandwagon"
as you have appeared to have done...by virtue of your faith.

A faith based on conjecture/widely accepted opinion
(without FACTS) is akin to believing that
the money in circulation is backed by substance.

I don't pound my chest in thinking I could possibly know
something I do not: whether or not the bible is real
and whether or not there is Jesus/God awaiting his
"children" to obtain everlasting life....because I do not.

I humbly admit I know not.
What I do know is that God has fucked up many many times
and has a shitty track record when it comes to:

unconditional love
compassion empathy
open and honest communication.

In fact he's done the complete opposite.
You may feel different, fine.
But don't pretend that I'm some idiot who spouts off
and repeats (like a parrot) what he's been read or told!
And then believes this hearsay with absolution that it is true. It doesn't work like that for me.

Isn't it ironic you claim the OP bases his knowledge on
"mis-interpretations" yet you feel that somehow YOURS are infallibly correct?

The beauty of belief, YET the problem with belief! = Irony.


It's very conceivable that the 2nd death means once
cast into the lake of fire: your soul is destroyed AND
that means your soul is forever dead...NOT forever suffering in eternal torture.

Make sense? Or are you going to create interpretations
from scripture that do not exist?
 Quoting: SelflessnHumble


^^^^^this..is the most intelligent thing i have ever heard from anyone debating a topic of the bible. this makes sense.

i find it amusing that i love the labyrinth..grew up on that movie.
Adam
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07/14/2011 07:20 PM
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Re: As A Christian, I'd Like To Tell Both Believers & Unbelievers That "Hell" And The Concept of Hell Are Not In The Bible.
God will save ALL in the end by bringing all unto willful repentance because of His unfailing love, not by fear. Read 1 Corinthians 13. If the Father wills that all be saved then who will stop Him? If Jesus fails to reconcile the whole world to God the Father then He failed in His mission. Both of these statements are impossible to the believer if you would think about it instead of resting on your doctrines. Universal Salvation through Jesus Christ (not Calvinism or Arminianism)is the true gospel. Amen!




2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Lord.Kalin

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07/14/2011 07:23 PM
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Re: As A Christian, I'd Like To Tell Both Believers & Unbelievers That "Hell" And The Concept of Hell Are Not In The Bible.
God will save ALL in the end by bringing all unto willful repentance because of His unfailing love, not by fear. Read 1 Corinthians 13. If the Father wills that all be saved then who will stop Him? If Jesus fails to reconcile the whole world to God the Father then He failed in His mission. Both of these statements are impossible to the believer if you would think about it instead of resting on your doctrines. Universal Salvation through Jesus Christ (not Calvinism or Arminianism)is the true gospel. Amen!
 Quoting: Adam 1324434


Interesting Theology and the first time I've ever seen anyone else other than me mention-it or bring it up

Because there is/are a wide range of verses which support it too




:LordKayleSig4:
- "Your best investment is ammo, because it's going to weird quickly." - AC 1196210

- "Rebellion to Tyrants is Obedience to God" - Thomas Jefferson's Personal Seal
Anonymous Coward
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07/14/2011 07:30 PM
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Re: As A Christian, I'd Like To Tell Both Believers & Unbelievers That "Hell" And The Concept of Hell Are Not In The Bible.
Just amazing how far down the rabbit hole people go with this religion BS. The time and effort you spend. The energy and focus. The endless debates over absolute bullshit. What an utter waste of life. I wish I could be there at your imaginary finish line when you arrive after this life with eyes wide open expecting to see all that you have believed down to its infinitesimal detail but instead discover quite abruptly that NONE of it ever existed. And so all this intensely labored discussion that consumed your lives will amount to naught and you will have wasted an entire incarnation with your heads so completely lodged up your asses that it will take millenia just to get them out and smell some fresh air.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1323894


cruise
 Quoting: BoldnBeautifulK


Funny how people like you can't stay away from the threads you like to bitch so much about.
 Quoting: TXGal4Truth


funny how the title includes the "people like me"...shall we quote that..or can u take a quick glance..?
Adam
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07/14/2011 07:34 PM
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Re: As A Christian, I'd Like To Tell Both Believers & Unbelievers That "Hell" And The Concept of Hell Are Not In The Bible.
God will save ALL in the end by bringing all unto willful repentance because of His unfailing love, not by fear. Read 1 Corinthians 13. If the Father wills that all be saved then who will stop Him? If Jesus fails to reconcile the whole world to God the Father then He failed in His mission. Both of these statements are impossible to the believer if you would think about it instead of resting on your doctrines. Universal Salvation through Jesus Christ (not Calvinism or Arminianism)is the true gospel. Amen!
 Quoting: Adam 1324434


Interesting Theology and the first time I've ever seen anyone else other than me mention-it or bring it up

Because there is/are a wide range of verses which support it too




 Quoting: Lord.Kalin


universalsalvation.org

Covers many of the bases of this doctrine. Solid resource. I agree with you. There are more verses throughout the entire bible that point to universal salvation than to any other doctrine. Most if not all christians agree that God is All powerful and that He wills to save All mankind, but most don't believe God is able. Open your eyes people! He is able and this is what He desires for us, so it shall be done. God is different than us in that He can cause things to transpire out of His will. Because He is God. Amazing concept God can DO ALL that He desires!
Anonymous Coward
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07/14/2011 07:48 PM
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Re: As A Christian, I'd Like To Tell Both Believers & Unbelievers That "Hell" And The Concept of Hell Are Not In The Bible.
While some call it annihilationism, simply stated, "Conditional Immortality" is the biblical belief that the "immortality" of the soul is not inherent (Greek philosophers thinking) but conditional (Biblical thinking) upon receiving the gift of everlasting life through faith in Yeshua . It is part and parcel of the
gospel. God alone has immortality -- anyone else becomes immortal only as a result of God's gracious gift (1 Timothy 6:16, Romans 2:7)

* (He/ YESHUA, has destroyed death and has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel. (2 Timothy 1:9b-10)

[link to www.jewishnotgreek.com]

Matthew 7: 13-14

13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Lord.Kalin

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07/14/2011 07:51 PM
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Re: As A Christian, I'd Like To Tell Both Believers & Unbelievers That "Hell" And The Concept of Hell Are Not In The Bible.
God will save ALL in the end by bringing all unto willful repentance because of His unfailing love, not by fear. Read 1 Corinthians 13. If the Father wills that all be saved then who will stop Him? If Jesus fails to reconcile the whole world to God the Father then He failed in His mission. Both of these statements are impossible to the believer if you would think about it instead of resting on your doctrines. Universal Salvation through Jesus Christ (not Calvinism or Arminianism)is the true gospel. Amen!
 Quoting: Adam 1324434


Interesting Theology and the first time I've ever seen anyone else other than me mention-it or bring it up

Because there is/are a wide range of verses which support it too




 Quoting: Lord.Kalin


universalsalvation.org

Covers many of the bases of this doctrine. Solid resource. I agree with you. There are more verses throughout the entire bible that point to universal salvation than to any other doctrine. Most if not all christians agree that God is All powerful and that He wills to save All mankind, but most don't believe God is able. Open your eyes people! He is able and this is what He desires for us, so it shall be done. God is different than us in that He can cause things to transpire out of His will. Because He is God. Amazing concept God can DO ALL that He desires!
 Quoting: Adam 1324434


spock
:LordKayleSig4:
- "Your best investment is ammo, because it's going to weird quickly." - AC 1196210

- "Rebellion to Tyrants is Obedience to God" - Thomas Jefferson's Personal Seal
Adam
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07/14/2011 07:57 PM
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Re: As A Christian, I'd Like To Tell Both Believers & Unbelievers That "Hell" And The Concept of Hell Are Not In The Bible.
While some call it annihilationism, simply stated, "Conditional Immortality" is the biblical belief that the "immortality" of the soul is not inherent (Greek philosophers thinking) but conditional (Biblical thinking) upon receiving the gift of everlasting life through faith in Yeshua . It is part and parcel of the
gospel. God alone has immortality -- anyone else becomes immortal only as a result of God's gracious gift (1 Timothy 6:16, Romans 2:7)

* (He/ YESHUA, has destroyed death and has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel. (2 Timothy 1:9b-10)

[link to www.jewishnotgreek.com]

Matthew 7: 13-14

13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1370012


So what you believe is that man's will is more powerful than God's will and that Adam's sin is more powerful than Jesus Christ's righteousness. Everyone will be saved by faith, but faith comes from God not your own will. That is a weak God and unbiblical.
Daniel's Seventieth Seven
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07/14/2011 08:08 PM
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Re: As A Christian, I'd Like To Tell Both Believers & Unbelievers That "Hell" And The Concept of Hell Are Not In The Bible.
Everyone will be saved by faith,
 Quoting: Adam 1324434




Just these:



44No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him (Joh 6)





:)
Daniel's Seventieth Seven
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07/14/2011 08:10 PM
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Re: As A Christian, I'd Like To Tell Both Believers & Unbelievers That "Hell" And The Concept of Hell Are Not In The Bible.
universalsalvation.org


 Quoting: Adam 1324434




What's wrong with just sticking with the Bible?



?
david
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07/14/2011 08:21 PM
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Re: As A Christian, I'd Like To Tell Both Believers & Unbelievers That "Hell" And The Concept of Hell Are Not In The Bible.
what's wrong with reading something else?
Daniel's Seventieth Seven
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Re: As A Christian, I'd Like To Tell Both Believers & Unbelievers That "Hell" And The Concept of Hell Are Not In The Bible.
what's wrong with reading something else?
 Quoting: david 1404180





nothing at all.... (and thanks for the intro)


Pres. C. Arthur served for 42 mo. as predicted by REVELATION! Both he and OBAMA were British citizens at birth! (Guess what’s next)




Thread: Pres. C. Arthur served for 42 mo. as predicted by REVELATION! Both he and OBAMA were British citizens at birth! (Guess what’s next)






:)
Anonymous Coward
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07/14/2011 08:36 PM
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Re: As A Christian, I'd Like To Tell Both Believers & Unbelievers That "Hell" And The Concept of Hell Are Not In The Bible.
"Original Greek texts?" You mean the first time the Sumerian texts were transcibed into Greek? Or, the first time the texts were transcribed from Sumerian, then into Hebrew, and then transcribed in Greek? ohyeah

Anyway, I've heard and read that people will experience that which they most dwell on, or are afraid of. That's why in some NDE (Near Death Experiences), some have experienced what they believed to be hell. They had a guilty conscience about something and in the back of their minds, were nagged that they may go to hell for what they've done/didn't do.

That's some peoples' viewpoint, but I've also read that ancient people's couldn't bear the fact that they were responsible for their own actions, so they needed to create "the devil" and the concept of "hell," to blame their wrong doing on something outside themselves. The "devil" and "hell" were concepts that didn't appear in their reality until later civilization. Probably after they found out they could be naughty, and then ask for forgiveness. heheheh

.
neim777

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07/14/2011 08:49 PM
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Re: As A Christian, I'd Like To Tell Both Believers & Unbelievers That "Hell" And The Concept of Hell Are Not In The Bible.
Through the years of mis-translations of the original Greek texts, people have taken those translations and run with them. They've started seminary schools, pastors have been taught and pastors have then taught, concepts not found in the Bible.

Unfortunately, as with all things in life there are groups of people that look to control the thoughts of others. Sadly, it doesn't stop at the church doors. Deceit is wherever people are gathered. It's just human nature. To top that off, people have much more of a desire in general to be a part of the community. If information jeopardizes their acceptance to the community, most of the time, the information is not shared.

Now let me get to the point and let me prove to you that our modern biblical translations are far from accurate.


EVERY TIME A GEOGRAPHICAL LOCATION IS MENTIONED IN THE GREEK IT IS TRANSLATED INTO ITS ENGLISH COUNTERPART. EVERY SINGLE TIME, EXCEPT FOR ONE. And that is the place of Geenna.

For Hierousalem we have Jerusalem. For Kapharnaoum we have Capernaum. For Nazaret we have Nazareth. For Bethania we have Bethany. For Ephesion we have Ephesus. For Bethleem we have Bethlehem. For Gomorra we have Gomorrah. For Galilaia we have Galilee. For Damaskos we have Damascus. But for Geenna we have hell.

The truth is, Geenna in the Greek is not Hell, it's the name of a physical location where the Israelites dumped their garbage and offered sacrifices to foreign gods.

Jesus did say Geenna and speak of Geenna in the book of Matthew 5:29-30 and in Mark 9:43-48. Remember, this is a physical geographical location that existed at the time. Look it up in any Dictionary... Although it may be spelled Gehenna.

I'd be glad to continue on with what all this means and the other mistranslations of the original Greek that deal with "eternal torment." But I will tell you, "hell" or the concept of "hell" never left the lips of our Saviour, Jesus Christ. It's simply not there. And this is one of the biggest conspiracies of all time.
 Quoting: King James


One hole in your thesis..hell is a place made for satan..The messiah was not talking about some backyard garbage incinerator dumping ground

Matthew 25:41 says that Hell , the "everlasting fire"
was "prepared for the devil and his angels."


Hell was not made for man
Hell was made for Satan,for Satan and for those angels who would reject God and choose to follow Satan

If the rebellious continue to be rebellious that is the final destination just as satan


in revelation it also said satan will be bound for 1000 years and released again. Then he will go try to fight the saints with his gentiles rebels but will be defeated.

REV 20
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever


Notice above "where the beast and the false prophet are".
This is in reference to chp 19 and this is a thousand years after the anti christ and the beast were sent to hell right after the tribulation as shown her below.WHAT EVIDENCE!...So we are seeing that these two have been in "torment lake of fire" for 1000 years already and after satan is realeased after his 1000 yr bondage he will be joining them both in torment

Imediately after the tribulaion the beast and the false prophet cast into "the lake of fire"

Rev chp 19

20And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone

-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0

Back to chp 20 which is addressing after the 1000 yrs.This is the 2nd resurrection and judgement for the rebellious

Rev chp 20
14 And death and hell were cast into "the lake of fire". This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the "lake of fire".

I rest my case

Last Edited by Neim-Ya'shar on 07/14/2011 10:40 PM
1 But these took this counsel among themselves, that they would leave the multitude of the heathen, and go forth into a further country, where never mankind dwelt,
42 That they might there keep their statutes, which they never kept in their own land.
43 And they entered into Euphrates by the narrow places of the river.
44 For the most High then shewed signs for them, and held still the flood, till they were passed over.
45 For through that country there was a great way to go, namely, of a year and a half: and the same region is called Arsareth.
46 Then dwelt they there until the latter time; and now when they shall begin to come,
:knoup:
Shamar

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07/14/2011 09:15 PM

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Re: As A Christian, I'd Like To Tell Both Believers & Unbelievers That "Hell" And The Concept of Hell Are Not In The Bible.
God will save ALL in the end by bringing all unto willful repentance because of His unfailing love, not by fear. Read 1 Corinthians 13. If the Father wills that all be saved then who will stop Him? If Jesus fails to reconcile the whole world to God the Father then He failed in His mission. Both of these statements are impossible to the believer if you would think about it instead of resting on your doctrines. Universal Salvation through Jesus Christ (not Calvinism or Arminianism)is the true gospel. Amen!




2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
 Quoting: Adam 1324434

Adam, I have to admit, these verses have captured me as well......when it says ALL will be reconciled, I have to believe that in one fashion or another ALL WILL be reconciled.
Love is a state of Being. Your love is not outside; it is deep within you. You can never lose it, and it cannot leave you. You can feel the same life deep within every other human and every other creature. You look beyond the veil of form and separation. This is the realization of oneness. This is love. What is God? The Eternal One Life underneath all the forms of life. What is love? To feel the presence of that One Life deep within yourself and within all creatures. To be it. Therefore, all love is the love of God.

Death is a stripping away of all that is not you. The secret of life is to die before you die - and find that there is no death.
Anonymous Coward
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07/14/2011 09:22 PM
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Re: As A Christian, I'd Like To Tell Both Believers & Unbelievers That "Hell" And The Concept of Hell Are Not In The Bible.
Revelation 20:10
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone,
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1118714


Wow, talk about not knowing what the hell you're talking about. Better check yourself op, you're way out in left field.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1169255


The "idea" domes from the Zoroastrian religion. The word Devil is a derivative of their Deva's or Devils. This religion predates Judaism and Christianity from 3000 to 8000 years. Both Judaism and Christianity were stolen from these beliefs.

The old testament / Hebrew bible / Jewish bible talks about Sheol, the dark pit. As close as it comes to hell.
Anonymous Coward
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07/14/2011 10:00 PM
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Re: As A Christian, I'd Like To Tell Both Believers & Unbelievers That "Hell" And The Concept of Hell Are Not In The Bible.
Now if the OP (and others) wish to interpret to meaning of 'aionios' as ages of ages, well then that is their choice. Others simple choose to see the word meaning 'aionios' = 'everlasting'.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1194370


How could it possibly mean "everlasting" when the noun form aion means "age"? The adjective aionios means "age-ly" or "age-long" or "for the age". It's an indefinite period of time, with a beginning and an end.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: As A Christian, I'd Like To Tell Both Believers & Unbelievers That "Hell" And The Concept of Hell Are Not In The Bible.
Whatever punishment God has for his enemies, whether it's eternal fire or an eternal guilt trip for sin, what does it matter? It's still torment and nobody should want to be a part of it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1215410


Check out Revelation 14:10, where we're told that the wicked "shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb".

Why would the Lamb be there, if indeed the "torment" is nothing more than vengeful torture? Do you suppose our humble Jesus is eager to view the suffering and agony of the lost?
Or, are they perhaps undergoing their discipline *inside* the presence of the Lamb? If God is a consuming fire, is it too preposterous to consider that perhaps the Lake of Fire is some aspect of God Himself?
We're told He's a Refiner, using "fire" to purify us as silver. We hopefully understand that throughout scripture, fire is symbolic of trials and testings, as mentioned by Peter. God's law itself is a "fire". Is it likely that we believers get mere symbolic fire, but unbelievers are given literal fire? Is this really how God does things?



The Greek word for "torment(ed)" here is basanizo.
This same word appears in the gospels a couple of times, but is translated differently. . .

Matthew 14: But the ship was now in the midst of the sea, tossed with waves: for the wind was contrary.

Mark 6: And he saw them toiling in rowing; for the wind was contrary unto them: and about the fourth watch of the night he cometh unto them, walking upon the sea, and would have passed by them.

Toiling and tossing is the nature of the "torment" they underwent on an actual lake. Struggling to row against the current is tough, but not exactly unbearable or inhumane. Perhaps this provides a little insight on the nature of the "torment" experienced in the Lake of Fire. Or not. I dunno.
Anonymous Coward
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07/14/2011 10:06 PM
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Re: As A Christian, I'd Like To Tell Both Believers & Unbelievers That "Hell" And The Concept of Hell Are Not In The Bible.
Q: Where in scripture does God first announce that sinners end up in hell?
Anonymous Coward
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07/14/2011 10:09 PM
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Re: As A Christian, I'd Like To Tell Both Believers & Unbelievers That "Hell" And The Concept of Hell Are Not In The Bible.
Hey you guys, gals, and all...if everyone stopped reading and writing arguing and preaching scripture, and instead started helping others, make others smile, spread love,peace, harmony, we may actually make 'a world' of difference!
peacehfgrouphug
Anonymous Coward
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07/14/2011 10:12 PM
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Re: As A Christian, I'd Like To Tell Both Believers & Unbelievers That "Hell" And The Concept of Hell Are Not In The Bible.
EXCUSE ME EXCUSE ME but do all you people realize you are arguing and debating a WORK OF FICTION like it's real?

There is no way to know if anyting at all in the entire bible or the scrolls they came from are real.

Do you people not realize how rediculous this is? You are arguing over a book that was translated from scrolls that were found in caves!!! COME ON PEOPLE WAKE UP

You are taking everything on faith from a book, A BOOK. That comes from something someone found. COME ON. I feel like slapping every brain dead christian I see. Why don't you believe every book that comes out?

You all only belive this one book in the face of THOUSANDS of other religions, opinion's and story's. The bible is just a collection of story's, that's it. Learn from it yes, just as you would the illiad or aesop's fables. But don't debate like it's real that's just silly.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1417231

Your post is full of ignorance. Go educate yourself.

shill
 Quoting: FieryFlies


Yet you failed in anyway to show any type of proof as to why anyone should believe anything in the bible to be true.

Nothing but empty insults and ad hominem. Care to try again?
Anonymous Coward
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07/14/2011 10:13 PM
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Re: As A Christian, I'd Like To Tell Both Believers & Unbelievers That "Hell" And The Concept of Hell Are Not In The Bible.
Just amazing how far down the rabbit hole people go with this religion BS. The time and effort you spend. The energy and focus. The endless debates over absolute bullshit. What an utter waste of life. I wish I could be there at your imaginary finish line when you arrive after this life with eyes wide open expecting to see all that you have believed down to its infinitesimal detail but instead discover quite abruptly that NONE of it ever existed. And so all this intensely labored discussion that consumed your lives will amount to naught and you will have wasted an entire incarnation with your heads so completely lodged up your asses that it will take millenia just to get them out and smell some fresh air.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1323894



You know, it's very easy to be an asshole piece of shit
fuckface screwloose cacahead. You're better at it than I.

Consider this: It takes a REAL man or woman to actually have the patience, understanding and fortitude to post something of value...

For example...instead of acting like a dipshit you could
have provided a link or a synopsis in your own words/thoughts
that explains how you arrive at "incarnation?"
 Quoting: SelflessnHumble





>>>You know, it's very easy to be an asshole piece of shit
fuckface screwloose cacahead. You're better at it than I.<<<




I like it. Rather poetic, actually. Points for creativity.



>>>Consider this: It takes a REAL man or woman to actually have the patience, understanding and fortitude to post something of value...<<<


I'm sorry. Am I to infer that this thread is something of value? Or do you wish me to retort instead of merely labeling this bullshit?


I've been here for many years, yoda, and have posted more threads than you can shake your pee pee at. You may not see them as my user ID has changed so often that a search will not do much good. I have shed my light more extensively than anyone here. But at times, I merely settle for qualifying the quantum bullshit in certain threads as this one. Is there not also value in that? Go ahead, bunky, ask away. What pearls might I bestow upon thee?
Anonymous Coward
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07/14/2011 10:14 PM
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Re: As A Christian, I'd Like To Tell Both Believers & Unbelievers That "Hell" And The Concept of Hell Are Not In The Bible.
If god loves all his creations why do some of them have to go to hell? Furthermore why did he let the devil get so much power? I mean apparently anytime something bad happens it's the devil's fault right? What kind of sick god would turn his creations loose with a psychopath such as the devil to have free reign to cause so much pain and suffering?

Is it starting to unravel for you yet?
Anonymous Coward
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07/14/2011 10:16 PM
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Re: As A Christian, I'd Like To Tell Both Believers & Unbelievers That "Hell" And The Concept of Hell Are Not In The Bible.
Just amazing how far down the rabbit hole people go with this religion BS. The time and effort you spend. The energy and focus. The endless debates over absolute bullshit. What an utter waste of life. I wish I could be there at your imaginary finish line when you arrive after this life with eyes wide open expecting to see all that you have believed down to its infinitesimal detail but instead discover quite abruptly that NONE of it ever existed. And so all this intensely labored discussion that consumed your lives will amount to naught and you will have wasted an entire incarnation with your heads so completely lodged up your asses that it will take millenia just to get them out and smell some fresh air.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1323894



You know, it's very easy to be an asshole piece of shit
fuckface screwloose cacahead. You're better at it than I.

Consider this: It takes a REAL man or woman to actually have the patience, understanding and fortitude to post something of value...

For example...instead of acting like a dipshit you could
have provided a link or a synopsis in your own words/thoughts
that explains how you arrive at "incarnation?"

 Quoting: SelflessnHumble





>>>You know, it's very easy to be an asshole piece of shit
fuckface screwloose cacahead. You're better at it than I.<<<




I like it. Rather poetic, actually. Points for creativity.



>>>Consider this: It takes a REAL man or woman to actually have the patience, understanding and fortitude to post something of value...<<<


I'm sorry. Am I to infer that this thread is something of value? Or do you wish me to retort instead of merely labeling this bullshit?


I've been here for many years, yoda, and have posted more threads than you can shake your pee pee at. You may not see them as my user ID has changed so often that a search will not do much good. I have shed my light more extensively than anyone here. But at times, I merely settle for qualifying the quantum bullshit in certain threads as this one. Is there not also value in that? Go ahead, bunky, ask away. What pearls might I bestow upon thee?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1323894


That's some real UN-selfless and UN-humble language there, especially for a so called christian? Break your own religion's rules much?

Don't forget love thy neighbor.
Anonymous Coward
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07/14/2011 10:18 PM
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Re: As A Christian, I'd Like To Tell Both Believers & Unbelievers That "Hell" And The Concept of Hell Are Not In The Bible.
Just amazing how far down the rabbit hole people go with this religion BS. The time and effort you spend. The energy and focus. The endless debates over absolute bullshit. What an utter waste of life. I wish I could be there at your imaginary finish line when you arrive after this life with eyes wide open expecting to see all that you have believed down to its infinitesimal detail but instead discover quite abruptly that NONE of it ever existed. And so all this intensely labored discussion that consumed your lives will amount to naught and you will have wasted an entire incarnation with your heads so completely lodged up your asses that it will take millenia just to get them out and smell some fresh air.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1323894



You know, it's very easy to be an asshole piece of shit
fuckface screwloose cacahead. You're better at it than I.

Consider this: It takes a REAL man or woman to actually have the patience, understanding and fortitude to post something of value...

For example...instead of acting like a dipshit you could
have provided a link or a synopsis in your own words/thoughts
that explains how you arrive at "incarnation?"

 Quoting: SelflessnHumble





>>>You know, it's very easy to be an asshole piece of shit
fuckface screwloose cacahead. You're better at it than I.<<<




I like it. Rather poetic, actually. Points for creativity.



>>>Consider this: It takes a REAL man or woman to actually have the patience, understanding and fortitude to post something of value...<<<


I'm sorry. Am I to infer that this thread is something of value? Or do you wish me to retort instead of merely labeling this bullshit?


I've been here for many years, yoda, and have posted more threads than you can shake your pee pee at. You may not see them as my user ID has changed so often that a search will not do much good. I have shed my light more extensively than anyone here. But at times, I merely settle for qualifying the quantum bullshit in certain threads as this one. Is there not also value in that? Go ahead, bunky, ask away. What pearls might I bestow upon thee?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1323894


That's some real UN-selfless and UN-humble language there, especially for a so called christian? Break your own religion's rules much?

Don't forget love thy neighbor.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1417231






Check your GPS, yoda. You took a wrong turn. I'm about as Christian as you are intelligent.
Adam
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07/14/2011 10:19 PM
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Re: As A Christian, I'd Like To Tell Both Believers & Unbelievers That "Hell" And The Concept of Hell Are Not In The Bible.
universalsalvation.org


 Quoting: Adam 1324434




What's wrong with just sticking with the Bible?



?
 Quoting: Daniel's Seventieth Seven 1071051


Nothing is wrong with reading just the bible. Do you get all of your theology from the bible or do you also go to a church or look into other resources to help? I don't claim to have all of the answers, but I personally have found that universal salvation best explains God's perfect righteousness and His perfect love. If God wants all to be saved then do you not also believe that He will not also draw all to Himself? There's more to it than that, but I have studied all forms of christianity and this seems to fit the gospel the best.
Anonymous Coward
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07/14/2011 10:21 PM
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Re: As A Christian, I'd Like To Tell Both Believers & Unbelievers That "Hell" And The Concept of Hell Are Not In The Bible.
...



You know, it's very easy to be an asshole piece of shit
fuckface screwloose cacahead. You're better at it than I.

Consider this: It takes a REAL man or woman to actually have the patience, understanding and fortitude to post something of value...

For example...instead of acting like a dipshit you could
have provided a link or a synopsis in your own words/thoughts
that explains how you arrive at "incarnation?"

 Quoting: SelflessnHumble





>>>You know, it's very easy to be an asshole piece of shit
fuckface screwloose cacahead. You're better at it than I.<<<




I like it. Rather poetic, actually. Points for creativity.



>>>Consider this: It takes a REAL man or woman to actually have the patience, understanding and fortitude to post something of value...<<<


I'm sorry. Am I to infer that this thread is something of value? Or do you wish me to retort instead of merely labeling this bullshit?


I've been here for many years, yoda, and have posted more threads than you can shake your pee pee at. You may not see them as my user ID has changed so often that a search will not do much good. I have shed my light more extensively than anyone here. But at times, I merely settle for qualifying the quantum bullshit in certain threads as this one. Is there not also value in that? Go ahead, bunky, ask away. What pearls might I bestow upon thee?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1323894


That's some real UN-selfless and UN-humble language there, especially for a so called christian? Break your own religion's rules much?

Don't forget love thy neighbor.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1417231






Check your GPS, yoda. You took a wrong turn. I'm about as Christian as you are intelligent.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1323894


Hold your horses there buddy. I was quoting the selfless and humble dude.
Anonymous Coward
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07/14/2011 10:22 PM
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Re: As A Christian, I'd Like To Tell Both Believers & Unbelievers That "Hell" And The Concept of Hell Are Not In The Bible.
...





>>>You know, it's very easy to be an asshole piece of shit
fuckface screwloose cacahead. You're better at it than I.<<<




I like it. Rather poetic, actually. Points for creativity.



>>>Consider this: It takes a REAL man or woman to actually have the patience, understanding and fortitude to post something of value...<<<


I'm sorry. Am I to infer that this thread is something of value? Or do you wish me to retort instead of merely labeling this bullshit?


I've been here for many years, yoda, and have posted more threads than you can shake your pee pee at. You may not see them as my user ID has changed so often that a search will not do much good. I have shed my light more extensively than anyone here. But at times, I merely settle for qualifying the quantum bullshit in certain threads as this one. Is there not also value in that? Go ahead, bunky, ask away. What pearls might I bestow upon thee?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1323894


That's some real UN-selfless and UN-humble language there, especially for a so called christian? Break your own religion's rules much?

Don't forget love thy neighbor.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1417231






Check your GPS, yoda. You took a wrong turn. I'm about as Christian as you are intelligent.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1323894


Hold your horses there buddy. I was quoting the selfless and humble dude.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1417231



I guess that makes me the cacahead. Sorry.

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