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Eaglesdisobey forum cult front for Nightshade 09

 
JayRodney (OP)

12/08/2005 10:20 AM
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Re: Eaglesdisobey forum cult front for Nightshade 09
From time to time, a psychotherapist receives a request for help from someone who has recently left a cult. 1 These patients may present symptoms of anxiety and depression, as do many others, but they constitute a group with special problems that require special knowledge on the part of the therapist.

The story these patients recount is remarkably similar from one to the next, regardless of differing educational, social, or financial backgrounds. They usually tell of joining the cult when they were at a transition point in their lives. Dissatisfied with their ordinary pursuits and relationships and hungry for a meaningful life that would satisfy their spiritual longings, they encountered an attractive, smiling young man or woman who enthusiastically described the happiness to be found in his or her dedicated, loving group and its wonderful, enlightened leader. They were invited to visit the group and did so. At that first meeting, they were impressed, if not overwhelmed, by the warm attention they received. In addition, they may have been emotionally stirred by singing; meditation, or other activities and may even have entered an altered state of consciousness under the influence of the group´s leader. Such impressive experiences were interpreted as proof of both the leader’s advanced spiritual state and the newcomer´s readiness to receive initiation. After one or two more meetings, they decided to join.

Having joined, the new convert´s life was immediately filled with work meetings, and exercises that left little time or energy for the life he or she left behind. Even if the convert was married and had a family, the partner and the children were regarded as less important than the avowed mission of the group to benefit all of humanity to save the world. The conflict between group demands amid outside commitments grew steadily sharper until the convert relinquished all relationships with those outside the group or the family broke up as the spouse reached the limit of tolerance. The ally was now totally dependent on the group and the leader for emotional and financial support.

The group that initially was warm and loving revealed its cold, punitive side whenever a convert questioned the group’s beliefs or criticized the behavior of the leader. Such dissent was labeled “selfish” or “evil,” and group approval was withdrawn and the dissenter isolated. Members were taught, therefore, that what the group had given, the group could take away. Out of fear of such punishment by the group and of humiliation and censure by the leader, converts found themselves engaging in the intimidation and coercion of fellow converts, the deception and seduction of new recruits, and other behaviors that violated ethical standards held before joining the cult. Such actions were rationalized by reference to the overriding importance of the group’s purpose and to the leader’s superior wisdom.

Eventually, the strain of conforming to the demands of the group became too much, especially it children were involved. The convert protester refused to comply with the latest demands and was dealt with severely. Finally, in desperation, he (or she) left the cult. Immediately, the leader branded him as damned, possessed by Satan, and having lost his soul. At the very least, he had failed the best arid lost his chance at enlightenment. Just as painful, people with whom he had shared his most intimate secrets and felt the greatest acceptance and love now turned their backs and refused to communicate. Feeling totally alone, the ex-cult member experienced a turmoil of feelings: rage at the betrayal, fear of retaliation, horror at the possibility of perpetual damnation, grief at the loss of group support and affection, and. shame at having been duped. At this point, he may turn to a therapist for help.

The anxiety and depression such patients feel usually is secondary to a bigger problem: a loss of trust in others and, especially loss of trust in their own judgment and spiritual perceptions. Additionally, they may feel guilt over unethical actions they engaged in to please the group and despair at the loss of time, money, and relationships. To recover from the trauma of their cult experience, these patients need to understand what happened and why, and so does the psychotherapist who treats them.

MOTIVATIONS FOR JOINING

People who join cults do so for two principal reasons: (1) They want to lead a meaningful, spiritual life and (2) they want to feel protected, cared for, and guided by someone who knows what to do in. a confusing world. The first motive is conscious and laudable; the second is unconscious or not recognized for what it is. Therein lies the problem: The wish to have a perfect parent and a loving; supportive group lies concealed in the psyche of even the most outwardly independent person. When the opportunity arises to gratify that wish, it powerfully influences judgment and perception and paves the way for exploitation by a cult.

There is good reason for cults to be associated primarily with religious-spiritual organizations. Religions are based on the belief in a transcendent; supreme power usually characterized along parental lines: God is all-powerful and all-knowing, meting out rewards and punishments according to how well a person has carried out the commandments He has issued. The doctrines vary, but even in nonmonotheistic Eastern traditions; Heaven and Hell in some form are designated as the consequences of good and bad behavior.

Although mystics are unanimous in defining God as incomprehensible and not of this world, human dependency needs require something more approachable and personal: Even in Buddhism, therefore, whose founder declared that concepts of gods and heaven were an illusion, many followers bow to a Buddha idol to invoke Buddha´s protection and blessing. But even more satisfying to the wish for a superparent is an actual human with divine, enlightened, or messianic status. The powerful wish to be guided and protected by a superior being can propel a seeker into the arms of a leader who is given that status by his or her followers. Such a surrender to the fantasy of the perfect parent may be accompanied by a feeling of great joy at "coming home."

This analysis does not imply that the intimations of a larger reality and a larger purpose, sensed by human beings for thousands of are only a fantasy: The problem is that the spiritual dimension and dependency wishes can get badly confused. The patient needs to disentangle the perception of a spiritual dimension from needs less-than-divine longings that have infiltrated, taken over, and distorted what is valid. It is important that the psychiatrist treating an ex-cult member keep this distinction in mind.

One way to clarify the confusion is to help the patient see clearly the problems that she had hoped "enlightenment", and membership in the group would solve: These problems may include loneliness, low self-esteem, the wish for the admiration of others, fear of intimacy, fear of death, and the wish for invulnerability. Indeed, membership in the group may assuage loneliness and provide the support and closeness that the patient had not experienced previously Memories of such good experiences may occasion acute feelings of loss in the ex-cult member and give rise to doubts concerning whether or not leaving was the best thing to do.

To look objectively and critically at the cult, experience, the ex-member needs to gain freedom from the "superior leader trap." As indicated earlier, this trap is sprung if there is criticism or questioning of the leader´s actions and directives. Basically, it takes the following form: The Leader operates on a higher plane than you or I. Because of that, we are not able to judge the rightness or wrongness of his or her actions. Ordinary, conventional standards do not apply here.

Although this conclusion may sound reasonable, the leader in fact can be judged by criteria established in the mystical literature. There is a striking consensus in these writings concerning the nature of the spiritual path and the duties of a genuine teacher. The consensus permits one to make judgments of whether the teacher´s actions advance spiritual development or hinder it.

It is important to realize that the basic activity of the spiritual traditions is to assist spiritual students to "forget the self." The self referred to is what is usually termed the, ego but is better understood as being the psychological processes dedicated to biological survival. That primitive aim is expressed in greed, fear, lust, hatred, and jealousy: the traditional vices. These vices are functional for the intention of survival. The, mode of consciousness one expertness is functional also, and it is adapted to one´s intentions. For example, building a bookcase calls forth a particular form of consciousness — the instrumental — featuring an emphasis on the object characteristics of the world, a reliance on abstract concepts, and a focus on past and future and on differences and boundaries. This mode of consciousness is needed to fulfill the intention of making a useful object. When one wants to receive something from one´s surroundings; however, as in relaxing in a tub of steaming hot water or having a massage, one needs a different mode of consciousness — the receptive — featuring an emphasis on sensual experience, a blurring of boundaries, a focus on now; and a sense of connectedness with the environment.

Ordinary survival aims, therefore, call forth instrumental consciousness: But if it is desired to experience the world in its wholeness, unity, and interconnection — the essence of spiritual consciousness — a different intention must be operative, along with a lessening of control by the survival self . 2

Keeping in mind this functional relationship of motivation and self to consciousness, one can see that the spiritual traditions use a variety of means to transform the seeker´s initial motivations, which are heavily weighted toward greed, dependency, and power; into motivations of service and contemplation. Meditation, teaching stories, service, and the example set by the teacher can be understood as tools for accomplishing a deep shift in basic intention, permitting access to spiritual consciousness.

This framework provides a means for making a preliminary judgment about people who declare themselves to be spiritual teachers. All one needs to do is observe their behavior and notice the intentions and type of self that is being reinforced. If there is considerable emphasis on what the convert will gain from following the teacher, such as “bliss,” psychic abilities, or the joy of enlightenment, these promises will arouse greed and acquisitive strategies. After all, the desire for bliss is not fundamentally different from the desire for money. If the teacher warns that rejecting the teaching will result in damnation, loss of one´s soul, and loss of all hopes of spiritual advancement, fear is aroused and the survival self is activated. Likewise, if the leader makes use of flattery by bestowing attention or praise, this can arouse vanity in the convert and competition in the group members. In all these instances, the teacher is intensifying the operation of the survival self and the form of consciousness it generates. These activities are antispiritual, and leaders that employ, them are not genuine spiritual teachers; they are not entitled to any special deference or trust. 3

Of course, exploitation of followers for sexual pleasure or financial gain cannot be justified in any manner and testifies to the unenlightened, self-centered state of the teacher. Such exploitation is not to be found in the lives of the great mystics. They operated by even more rigorous standards than those that are imposed by conventional society. This is not to say that mystics are examples of perfect human beings. Perfection is not part of earthly existence for anyone or anything. But financial or sexual exploitation represents a drastic failure of responsibility that disqualifies a teacher from any special consideration. Psychotherapists are well aware of how harmful such violations of trust can be.

The behavior of most cult leaders departs widely from the path paid down in the mystical literature and can be seen to be harmful to spiritual development. By employing this functional framework, cult members can judge for themselves the presumed sanctity the leader and, the appropriateness of the leader´s behavior.

CULT BEHAVIOR IN NORMAL SOCIETY

Just as it is important to have a means of judging a spiritual teacher, it also is important for the ex-cult member and the therapist to be able to answer the more general question: "Is this group a cult?" Patients need to be able to answer that question to avoid making the same mistake again, and therapists are likely to be asked that question by a worried parent or spouse. Usually, the group in question has obvious cult trappings, but society abounds with groups and organizations that appear normal but have the potential for cultlike behavior: large corporations, political groups, professional organizations, government bodies, and established religions. These sectors of normal society seldom are thought to share characteristics with The People´s Temple or the less dramatic groups such as the Moonies and the Krishna devotees collecting money in airports, however, careful study of cults reveals four basic cult behaviors that occur to varying degrees in almost all groups, including those that do not have a strange appearance or engage in bizarre behavior. 4 Identifying these basic behaviors permits one to replace the question, "Is this group a cult?" with the more practical one, "To what extent is cult behavior present?" The latter question is more useful because in the field of the transpersonal, as elsewhere, there is a continuum of groups ranging from the most benign and least cultlike to the most malignant and destructive.

THE FOUR BASIC CULT BEHAVIORS

Compliance With the Group

Everybody is concerned with how he or she is viewed by the people whose opinions matter to, us:, our "reference group." No matter how, outwardly independent and nonconformist we may be, there is, usually a, group of people who share our, values and whose approval we want. Membership, in this group is signaled by conformity in dress, behavior, and speech. People outside of cults may suppress deviant thoughts also, although less obviously, if they believe that their expression could result in loss of status with the people important to them.

The power of groups has been noted by psychologists beginning with Gustav Le Bon and Sigmund Freud, and analyzed in detail by Wilfred Bion, who proposed that members of groups tend to adopt one of three primitive emotional states: dependency, pairing, or fight-flight. His description of the dependency state is an apt description of cults, but he saw, the process taking place in varying degrees in all groups:

The essential aim … is to attain security is to attain security through and have its members protected by one individual. It assumes that this is why the group has met. The members act as if they know nothing, as if they are inadequate and immature creatures. Their behavior implies that the leader, by contrast, is omnipotent and omniscient. 5

It is plausible that natural selection favored individuals who were good at discerning what the group wanted because preservation of their membership in the group gave them the best chance of survival. As a consequence, it is likely that human beings have evolved to be exquisitely sensitive to what the group wants. "Political correctness" probably has a long history.”

Dependence on a Leader

Leaders draw a power from their followers’ wish for an ideal parent, a wish that is latent in all adults no matter what kind of parent they had. Although cult leaders may be charismatic, they need not be as long as they are believed by the group members to possess superior powers and secrets. Cult leaders are authoritarian, encouraging dependence and discouraging autonomy. Obedience and loyalty are rewarded, and critical thinking is punished. Furthermore, to enhance dependency on the leader, pair bonding is discouraged. The leader must come first; family and lovers come last. The disruption of intimate relationships is accomplished by a variety of means: enforced chastity, separation of parents from children, arranged marriages, long separations, promiscuity, or sexual relations with the leader. All these aspects are counter to healthy leadership, which fosters growth, independence, and mature relationships and has as its aim that the followers will eventually achieve an eye-level relationship with the leader.

Dissent

Dissent threatens the group fantasy that the members are being protected and rewarded by a perfect, enlightened leader who can do no wrong. The security provided by that fantasy is the basic attraction that keeps members in the cult despite highly questionable actions by the leader. Questioning the fantasy threatens that security, and for this reason, active dissent is seldom encouraged. To the contrary, dissenters are often declared to be in the grip of Satan. Sometimes they are scapegoated, and hidden, unconscious anger toward the leader is released against the dissenter. Almost all groups derive security from their shared beliefs and readily regard dissenters as irritations, to be gotten rid of. Nevertheless, the mark of a healthy group is a tolerance for dissent and a recognition of its vital role in keeping the group sane. Paranoia develops and grandiosity flourishes when dissent is eliminated and a group isolates itself from outside influence. As recent cult disasters have shown us, grandiose and paranoid cult leaders often self-destruct, taking their group with them.

Devaluing the Outsider

What good is being in a group if membership does not convey some special advantage? In spiritual groups, the members are likely to believe that they have the inside track to enlightenment, to being "saved," or to finding God because of the special sanctity and, spiritual power of the leader. It follows that they must be superior to people outside the group: It is they, the converts, who have the leader´s blessing and approval. Devaluation can be detected in the pity or “compassion” they may feel for those outside. This devaluation becomes most marked in the case of someone who elects to leave the group and is thereby considered “lost,” if not damned. The more such devaluation takes place, and the more the group separates itself from the outside world, the greater the danger of cult pathology.

Devaluing of the outsider is part and parcel of everyday life. Depending on which group we designate as the outsider, our scorn may be directed at “liberals,” “Republicans,” “blacks,” “Jews,” “yuppies,” or “welfare bums”: however the outsider is designated. Such disidentification can authorize unethical, mean, and destructive behavior against the outsider, behavior that otherwise would cause guilt for violating ethical norms. Devaluation of the outsider is tribal behavior and so universal as to suggest a “basic law of groups”: Be one of us and we will love you; leave us and we will kill you.

Devaluing the outsider reassures the insider that he or she is good, special, and deserving, unlike the outsider. Such a belief is a distortion of reality; if one considers the different circumstances of each person’s development and life context, one is hard put to judge another person to be intrinsically inferior to oneself. Certainly, actions can be judged, but human beings are one species, at eye level with each other.

CULT BEHAVIOR IN THE PSYCHOTHERAPIST

The psychotherapist treating an ex-cult member may be tempted to devalue the patient for being duped and exploited and for believing weird doctrines. Especially in the role of expert in human psychology, we therapists wish to be reassured that nothing like that would happen to us because we are too discerning, mature, and sophisticated. As a matter of fact, we are not immune by virtue of our profession; psychotherapists with the best credentials have participated directly in cults. There have even been psychotherapeutic cults led by fully trained and accredited psychoanalysts, 6 and noted psychoanalysts have commented on the cult aspects of psychoanalytic training institutes. 7, 8

Furthermore, cult behavior is evident within the psychiatric profession as a whole. Perusal of the psychiatric literature indicates a remarkable absence of dissent from the current enthusiasm for biological psychiatry, an enthusiasm not different from the overcommitment to environmental influences that characterized the 1950s, 1960s, and 1970s. Indeed, research that challenges the biological perspective is ignored. 4 The biological-medical consensus is reinforced by economic factors; those working in academic environments experience pressure to shape their research focus and strategy so that they will be funded. Being awarded a research grant usually depends on the approval of the "leading experts" in the field, the very persons who have established, and are committed to, the prevailing theoretical perspective. Furthermore, the same authorities are asked to judge articles submitted for publication to psychiatric journals. Avoidance of dissent and devaluation of the outsider can take the place unnoticed, therefore, through rejection of submitted papers and denial of research funds. To this may be added informal devaluation through unsupported derogatory comments made: at professional gatherings.

THE VALUE OF AWARENESS

It is important that both the therapist and the ex-cult member be able to see that cult behaviors are endemic in our society. Such awareness can protect the therapist from the influence of such behaviors and allow ex-cult members to realize that they are not freaks, weak and dependent persons, or fools. Rather, they were s led astray by unconscious wishes that they share with all human beings. These wishes were stimulated at a time when they were N especially vulnerable and under circumstances that any person might have found difficult to combat.

CONCLUSION

Cult behavior reflects the wish for a loving, accepting sibling group that is protected and cherished by a powerful, omnipotent parent. The problem with such a wish and its accompanying fantasy is that no human being can fill the role of the superparent, and adults can never again be children. To preserve the fantasy, reality must be distorted, because of .this distortion, cult behavior results in a loss of realism. In the more extreme cases, the consequences can be drastic. Diminished realism is a problem in any situation, however, and for this reason, cult behavior is costly no matter where it takes place: affecting business decisions, governmental deliberations, day-to-day relationships in the community, or the practice of psychotherapy. Fortunately, awareness of these cult behaviors offers protection from their influence. Psychotherapists can foster that awareness, benefiting patients, themselves, and society.
JayRodney (OP)

12/08/2005 10:20 AM
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Re: Eaglesdisobey forum cult front for Nightshade 09
The "Greatest Love", is to eradicate an "error" from a person, even if it hurts!...
All religions and cults have something very good, that´s why people is attracted to them!... but the Great Problem is that many have also errors or heresies with the good thing... they are a delicious candy with poison inside!.
Kreeper (OP)

12/08/2005 10:20 AM
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Re: Eaglesdisobey forum cult front for Nightshade 09
I think many people should learn the meanings of what they are saying.
Kreeper (OP)

12/08/2005 10:20 AM
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Re: Eaglesdisobey forum cult front for Nightshade 09
"(1) They want to lead a meaningful, spiritual life and (2) they want to feel protected, cared for, and guided by someone who knows what to do in. a confusing world."

A third can be added to this list. Cults often target people that are at "rock bottom" because they are extreemly vulnerable.
JayRodney (OP)

12/08/2005 10:20 AM
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Re: Eaglesdisobey forum cult front for Nightshade 09
Right you are kreeper!~headbang

This thread was simply to demonstate that exact point.

However by the same token just because someone is drawn to information does no make it a cult an any form.
I´ve tried to get a glimpse of the truth for many years regarding government cover ups secrecy etc..
Along the way I found the Burish saga. I ve watched closly for some time and I will say it would be very hard to perpetuate this type of hoax for well ove 2 years.
Plus he has the credentials to do exactly what he claims.
This doesnt mean I´m in a cult anymore than I would be if I was a fan of the Brady Bunch.
Which I dunno Alice is okay n all but...lmao
JayRodney (OP)

12/08/2005 10:20 AM
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Re: Eaglesdisobey forum cult front for Nightshade 09
Member´s Bio
-------------------------------------------------------------​-------------------

Name: nightshade09
Email: hidden
Sex: Undisclosed
Posts: 0
Date Registered: Jul 27, 2005, 11:22pm


[link to truthseekertv.proboards20.com]

Hmm I wonder why he/she/it claims to be male, yet sports a female avatar and list it´s sex as....UNDISCLOSED?lol
JayRodney (OP)

12/08/2005 10:20 AM
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Re: Eaglesdisobey forum cult front for Nightshade 09
Yahoo! Messenger: seion9 has joined the conference.
boomerang19582003: seion9 dan is here, we are asking some Qs
protocells: It always follows 1 of three procedures, depending upon the circumstances. OKAY FOLKS! I have orders to answer every q. Give me time.
solstice_fire: One question. Who made Maji the symbolic god to keep "the truth" buried so long? Come on I´m talking about the moral and ethical implactions here.. btw I´m nightshade09

Now why would he waste his time trying to chat with Burish & Co. when he has evidence that its a hoax?
Kreeper (OP)

12/08/2005 10:20 AM
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Re: Eaglesdisobey forum cult front for Nightshade 09
Brady Bunch? Man, watch out for them...




1rof1




I think the biggest problem with the Burisch saga is some of the characters involved.
JayRodney (OP)

12/08/2005 10:20 AM
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Re: Eaglesdisobey forum cult front for Nightshade 09
I agree wholehartedly Kreeper. As soon as the damn thing reached a stage where he went into debriefing, Nightshade started operation run interference.
Nightshade needs to learn there are better ways of getting attetion than saying your a witch (yeah right...Ill let Hansel & Gretal know to steer clear of your place.)
Saying you have evidence the Burish thing is a hoax...yet no evidence. Hmmmm.
And he lies about his age (dont think I dont know hes eary fifties BTW!)
Slanders people like Dondep Boomerang and myself thinks hes a hacker...LOL! He would be damn lucky to hack up a greenie after the flu.
It just goes on and on. And now he apparently has a very small flock of sheep Who with cult like enthusiasm are going about on a mission to discredit everyone that have only been trying to find out the truth.
If you not serching for answers to lifes questions, then you may as well be dead already.
)( (OP)

12/08/2005 10:20 AM
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Re: Eaglesdisobey forum cult front for Nightshade 09
There was a mendicant priest who drifted about from province to province like floating grass, who rolled on from district to district like tumbleweed. Before anyone realized it he appeared on the scene and stood leaning on the pillar of the gate, smiling but saying nothing.
The unenlightened man, wondering at this, asked what he wanted. At first the priest made no reply, but after the question was repeated he said, "The moon is dim and distant, the wind brisk and blustery." His appearance was quite out of the ordinary and his words made no sense
JayRodney (OP)

12/08/2005 10:20 AM
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Re: Eaglesdisobey forum cult front for Nightshade 09
headbang
Bump for senseless words my friend!
Threaten me all they want, they have no power over me unless God gives it to them.
Their empty words like hollow spheres ring to a universe thats cold dark and lonely.
Given the gift of flesh, they abuse the gift to satisfy their ego.
In the twilight of life their words will fall on deaf ears, their memmory their only companion.
May those memories be sweet for each and every one of them.
I wish no one harm, but it´s not a bad thing to prove a point sometimes...
JayRodney (OP)

12/08/2005 10:20 AM
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Re: Eaglesdisobey forum cult front for Nightshade 09
Posted by myself at Stargate Forums the Following

Keep your Cult Members in line and on a leash! Or I will post each and every FLOOD they inflict on my forums HERE!!!

Your choice people. If this forum means anything to you. You will keep your dogs on a leash...


Nightshade 09

---------------------------------

Followed by the FLOOD of both Boomerang and JayRodney.

I mean it Stargate CULT. STAY OUT OF MY FORUMS!

This is your FINAL warning.


Hey everybody!lmao
Lets take a vote here do I tempt fate...scream
His threats are and endless source of amusement for me.

He turns 12 tomorrow.
jayrodney (OP)

12/08/2005 10:20 AM
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Re: Eaglesdisobey forum cult front for Nightshade 09
thinkink everyone desrves equal time
JayRodney (OP)

12/08/2005 10:20 AM
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Re: Eaglesdisobey forum cult front for Nightshade 09
Damn straight!
Hes gonna burn down the gambling house!
lol
Petty is as petty does.
JayRodney (OP)

12/08/2005 10:20 AM
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Re: Eaglesdisobey forum cult front for Nightshade 09
He has threatened to hack other forums...

Hacking and related crimes.

The term `hacker´ is widely used to describe a malicious intruder who tries to discover sensitive information by accessing secure systems. Often called a "password hacker", "network hacker," The correct term is actually cracker.

Both federal and state law enforcement agencies have increased funding for the investigation and prosecution of computer crimes that involve so-called hacking. Prosecution of these cases is often difficult because of the computer expertise needed to uncover these crimes. Once discovered however, the penalties for a hacker under federal (usually wire fraud and computer fraud) and state law are quite severe. The penalties include prison (BEND OVER) as well as significant fines.




Other useful information:

hacker defined:

1. A person who enjoys exploring the details of programmable systems and how to stretch their capabilities, as opposed to most users, who prefer to learn only the minimum necessary.

2. One who programs enthusiastically (even obsessively) or who enjoys programming rather than just theorizing about programming.

3. A person capable of appreciating hack value.

4. A person who is good at programming quickly.

5. An expert at a particular program, or one who frequently does work using it or on it; as in "a Unix hacker".

(Definitions 1 through 5 are correlated, and people who fit them congregate.)

6. An expert or enthusiast of any kind. One might be an astronomy hacker, for example.

7. One who enjoys the intellectual challenge of creatively overcoming or circumventing limitations.

8. (Deprecated) A malicious meddler who tries to discover sensitive information by poking around. Hence "password hacker", "network hacker". The correct term is cracker.

9. (University of Maryland, rare) A programmer who does not understand proper programming techniques and principles and doesn´t have a Computer Science degree. Someone who just bangs on the keyboard until something happens. For example, "This program is nothing but spaghetti code. It must have been written by a hacker".

It is better to be described as a hacker by others than to describe oneself that way. Hackers consider themselves something of an elite (a meritocracy based on ability), though one to which new members are gladly welcome. Thus while it is gratifying to be called a hacker, false claimants to the title are quickly labeled as "bogus" or a "wannabee".
JayRodney (OP)

12/08/2005 10:20 AM
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Re: Eaglesdisobey forum cult front for Nightshade 09
Fine Jay. I need material for post #2 over there anyway. I´m sure though after YOU shut down their forum, they´ll be coming looking for you.

So spew all you which Jay. :)

Nightshade 09

He wants me to spew on him...
Ewwwwwww!yak

lmao
JayRodney (OP)

12/08/2005 10:20 AM
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Re: Eaglesdisobey forum cult front for Nightshade 09
You will need to know how to address other people´s misconceptions and, eventually, you will have to articulate these issues to the cult member as well. To help prepare you, I have identified ten of the most common fallacies about mind control cults.

1. "THERE´S NO SUCH THING AS MIND CONTROL."
People who reject out of hand the existence of mind control usually have distorted conceptions about mind control techniques. "Nobody can erase your personality and turn you into a brainwashed zombie," is one common belief. Yet, as we have seen, mind control does not erase a person´s authentic self but rather creates a dominant cult self that suppresses free will. In speaking to a person with doubts about mind control, you might discuss how the cult identity is not supposed to think, feel, or behave outside of the parameters of the cult doctrine. Understanding cult mind control depends on making this critical distinction between the cult identity and the authentic identity.

By studying Chapter Two of Releasing the Bonds: Empowering People to Think for Themselves (FOM Press, 2000) "What is Destructive Mind Control?" you will have three powerful models to explain what we mean by the term "mind control." It is also useful to cite the reading material for Dr. Philip Zimbardo´s Stanford University Psychology course entitled "The Psychology of Mind Control." As mentioned earlier, the diagnostic manual for the American Psychiatric Association actually has a category, Atypical Dissociative Disorder 300.15, that uses the words cults and brainwashing. NOTE: Dr. Philip Zimbardo (www.zimbardo.com) is President of the American Psychological Association (www.apa.org) for 2002.

It is also true that mind control does not affect all people at all times with equal force. Individuals involved in the same cult can experience vastly different levels of mind control. Some cult members may look glassy-eyed and zombie-like, but these are extreme cases and often the result of sleep deprivation or malnutrition. More often, the member´s cult identity seems well-developed, but is actually co-opting the talents and skills of the authentic self. The result is that, to the untrained eye, cult members can appear completely normal. Asking questions that can test a person´s thoughts and free will is the only way to evaluate the extent of mind control.

Some may argue that people leave cult groups and, therefore, mind control does not exist. But the truth is that they may have become ill, become disillusioned, or been kicked out. The fact that people walk out of cults does not mean that mind control doesn´t exist -- it just means that mind control is not absolute. Since mind control does not erase a person´s authentic self or their spirit, it is always possible for people to escape to freedom.

Mind control is often misunderstood because relatively few people have had experience with cults, although most of us can relate to mind control in one way or another. If a potential Team member has trouble understanding mind control, the following questions might help them identify other influence processes that they may have encountered:

"Have you ever trusted or fallen in love with someone who lied, manipulated and took advantage of you?"
"Did you ever stay in a relationship in which you felt controlled and disrespected?"
"Have you ever been hypnotized or watched other people being hypnotized?"
"Did you ever do something you didn´t want to do because someone pressured you to do it (donate money, have sex, smoke cigarettes, use drugs)?"
"Have you ever bought a product you didn´t need or want and then realized how many advertisements for that item you had seen or heard?"
By asking some of these questions, you might stimulate the person to start equating some of these experiences to the issue of cult mind control. Since influence processes can be seen as varying in degree of impact, it might make it easier to see how the extreme conditions which cults use can produce extreme results.

2. "EVERYTHING IS MIND CONTROL."
Mind control is everywhere, the reasoning goes -- in psychotherapy, advertising, education, and the military, for example -- so it must be acceptable. When we generalize and say that everything is mind control, all distinctions are lost. No insight is gained. A more productive model is to think in terms of a continuum of influence: at one end, respectful, ethical, growth-enhancing influence that recognizes the value of individuality, human rights, and creativity; at the other end, conformity, dependency, and slavery, where the value lies in the leader and the group.

Everything is not mind control, although destructive mind control can be used by almost any institution or person. Institutions and systematic social influence programs should be evaluated on a case-by-case basis. Some are positive; some are benign; some are hurtful. While influence processes exist in all areas of human endeavor, cult mind control is a distinct phenomenon found at the destructive extreme of the continuum.

Psychotherapy
Ethical mental health professionals use their knowledge of the mind to influence their clients in a process of growth and change. The locus of control throughout treatment should remain with the client, and not the therapist. It is true that there are many people affected by mental illness who want and need structure and an authority to make decisions for them. Others may never have individuated in their personal development in other words, they are still acting like children, not like adults. If a person has been severely affected by mental illness, or some major psychological problem, he may need to depend on authority figures until he can become strong. There are also poorly-trained and unethical therapists who foster dependency for self-serving reasons.

Advertising
Advertising has a profound economic, cultural, and social impact on our lives. Advertisers use sophisticated psychological methods to manipulate our desires, thoughts, and behaviors. The goal is often to create a need where none previously existed, or to amplify a need, and influence people about how they should fulfill it. As we have learned from the promotional tactics of the cigarette industry, some forms of advertising can be harmful and deceptive. Of course, there are also good advertisements that are meant to inform, persuade, and motivate people to be responsible about their own lives and the lives of their fellow citizens. Becoming conscious of the power of advertising, or simply changing the station or turning off the television or radio altogether are the most efficient ways to minimize negative effects.

Education
There is no doubt that some educational systems are designed to indoctrinate rather than educate. They demand conformity and obedience. But there are other educational systems that encourage students to think for themselves, be creative, and respect themselves and others. Educational systems that use fear and guilt -- and that focus on competition and conformity -- produce ready candidates for destructive cults. Students should be taught critical thinking skills and be encouraged to oppose blind conformity. Education should also encourage students to think from different perspectives to further their understanding.

The Military
The military is an example of a highly structured, pyramid-shaped organization. There is a strict hierarchy. Soldiers are assigned numbers, given haircuts and uniforms, instructed in ways of talking, walking, marching and fighting. It is a career where personal choice is much more restricted than in society at large. In boot camp training, particularly in the Marines, the SEALs and other Special Forces, the use of mind control techniques is considered essential to create the identity of an elite soldier.

But unlike a destructive cult, the military is accepted and valued by society. Military leaders answer to other branches of the government. The military is also governed by ethical codes and structural checks and balances. People join the military for a specified length of time, and receive pay and benefits. With a few unfortunate exceptions, the military does not use deception in recruitment. When people join the military, they know what will be expected of them. Soldiers are encouraged to maintain contact with their family and friends, and vacation time is given annually.

When people endure rigorous training such as medical school, law school, the military, or the priesthood, they are making a conscious choice to become a doctor, a lawyer, a soldier, a priest. This training enhances their sense of identity and offers knowledge, skills and affords a variety of benefits. When a person is deceptively recruited into a destructive cult, the leaders immediately begin a process of tearing down, rejecting, and reprogramming the person´s authentic identity. The person loses his free will. He does not receive many personal benefits, and there is no institutional way to exit with honor.

3. "WHY SHOULD I DO ANYTHING? HE SAYS HE´S HAPPY!"
Members of the Heaven´s Gate cult took turns making videotaped farewell statements that explained why they had decided to leave their "vehicles" behind and commit suicide. All of them claimed that they were exercising their own free will, and that they were happy to perform this radical act of dying.

It is wishful thinking to accept at face value a cult member´s words that he is "happy." In a cult, happiness is often redefined as sacrifice or suffering. Happiness in Heaven´s Gate was defined as overcoming "individuality" and "humanness," and suicide was redefined as advancing to the next level of existence. Ingesting the fatal pills with applesauce and vodka, and placing plastic bags place over their heads was seen as a necessary stage of the metamorphosis. The cult identity was "happy" to die. To the members of Heaven´s Gate, not agreeing to die was suicide because it meant not going to the higher level.

But as we have learned, this cult identity is created by sophisticated mind control techniques. It does not represent the whole individual. You might tell those who are taken in by the cult identity to look behind the smiling mask. Remember, members are taught to suppress negative personal thoughts and emotions. They are trained to speak only positively of their involvement. When the cult member says he is "happy," it is usually the cult identity who is talking. The cult self is doing what it has been instructed to do.

When I was in the cult, I told everyone that I was happier than I had ever been in my life. But when you are a Moonie, being close to God makes you happy, and God is defined as a suffering parent. Therefore, the more you can feel God´s suffering heart and sacrifice, the happier you will be. By this Orwellian logic, happiness is suffering. As Moonies, we were also taught to suppress all negative feelings and thoughts, so we had to feel happy. We weren´t allowed to feel anything else. If those feelings crept in, we were chastised and sent for retraining.

People must not accept such statements without examining the deeper issues. This is a time for reality-testing. If potential Team members have doubts because the cult member says he´s perfectly happy, you should encourage them to pursue such blanket statements with follow-up questions:

"What do you mean when you say you are happy?"
"If you were unhappy, would you be able to admit it to yourself?"
"Would you tell us if you were unhappy?"
"What would need to happen for you to feel unhappy enough to walk away from your involvement?"
4. "HE´S AN ADULT. WE HAVE NO RIGHT TO INTERFERE."
It is normal for people to resist interfering in the lives of their adult relatives or friends. In fact, the law states that once people reach the age of majority (usually 18 but in some countries 21), they are responsible for their actions. However, cult mind control impairs an individual´s capacity for mature decision-making. Especially at the beginning of the cult involvement, family members and friends know that something is wrong. But they often back off when the adult cult member says, "Don´t tell me what to do. I am an adult. Don´t try to control my life." People don´t realize that this is a tactic to neutralize objections and induce passive acceptance. Cult members often threaten to cut off all contact if they are not "treated as an adult."

The fact that a person is of legal age does not mean that he is functioning as a responsible adult. For example, under hypnosis, a person can be age-regressed to childhood. The individual thinks, feels, and acts like a child. That becomes his "reality". It is common for cult leaders to ask members to become like "children of God." In fact, an essential aspect of the cult identity is to possess the naivete of a child. A child´s idolization of the parent figure is precisely what a cult leader needs to be in total control. By taking advantage of the desire for childlike innocence, cult mind control undermines the normal resources of a mature mind.

If a concerned friend or family member is questioning his own right to interfere, remind him that his love gives him the right to be concerned. If a loved one is under the influence of destructive mind control, relatives and friends have the right and the obligation to take steps to undo the mind control process so that the person can think independently. Once the cult member has an opportunity to learn about mind control, recognize the features of destructive cults, and meet with former members and critics, he will be in a position to make an informed choice.

5. "HE HAS THE RIGHT TO BELIEVE WHAT HE WANTS TO BELIEVE."
If a person wants to believe that David Koresh is Christ, that is his right. If people want to believe that Sun Myung Moon and Hak Ja Han are the perfect True Parents, they are entitled. In a free society, people are free to believe whatever they like, but at the same time, they should be protected from undue influence processes that make them believe something and prevent them from reevaluating their beliefs.

As we have seen, cult mind control makes it seem as though members are exercising their own free will, but this is only the illusion of choice. When people in a controlled environment are subjected to psycho-social influences -- like group conformity or behavior modification techniques -- they can be manipulated and indoctrinated into accepting a completely different belief system. Social psychologists have conducted experiments that graphically demonstrated how a person´s beliefs can become extremely pliable under the right set of social circumstances. Because cult mind control techniques are more sophisticated and invasive than the methods used in these studies, cult indoctrination is even more effective in suppressing a person´s free will.

If a person insists that he has freely chosen his beliefs, especially if they are contradictory to his previous beliefs, then he should be willing to engage in an in-depth questioning, to demonstrate that he was making his own decision when he adopted his new beliefs. For anyone born into a belief system, religious, political or otherwise, there always come a time in that person´s development into adulthood when they should challenge and test his assumptions. This is more than just a one-time process. It should be done by all of us, as we mature into responsible people.

6. "HE´S TOO INTELLIGENT TO JOIN A CULT."
This was my mother´s response in 1974, when I dropped out of college, quit my job, donated my bank account, and moved into the Moon center in Queens, New York. She was trying to reconcile how her son, an honors student, could be foolish enough to be taken in by a cult and accept such stupid beliefs. She thought that I would see through it quickly and on my own. I only wish that she had been right.

Many people have a hard time believing that bright, talented people -- often from good homes and with higher education -- could fall under the control of a cult. What they fail to realize is that cults intentionally recruit "valuable" people -- they go after those who are intelligent, caring, and motivated. Most cults do not want to be burdened by unintelligent people with serious emotional or physical problems. They want members who will work hard with little or no sleep. Most of the former cult members I have met are exceptionally bright and educated. They have an active imagination and a creative mind. They have a capacity to focus their attention and enter deep states of concentration. Most are idealistic and socially conscious. They want to make the most of themselves -- and to make a positive contribution to the world.

Cult mind control groups thrive to the extent that they can recruit such intelligent, dynamic people. It is essential for all members of the Team to realize that cults target these people for recruitment. The more creative a mind a person has, the more his imagination can be used to control that person. Indeed, bright people sometimes have even more sophisticated fantasies about the group and its doctrine than does the cult leader. The bright member usually follows his own fantasy construction of the group´s belief system.

7. "HE MUST BE WEAK, OR LOOKING FOR EASY ANSWERS. HE NEEDS SOMEONE TO TELL HIM WHAT TO DO."
This is a very commonly held, but fallacious generalization about cult members. People often try to find fault with people who experience tragedy by blaming the victim. Laying blame gives people a false sense of control over their own lives by distancing them from the victim. However, the idea that people knowingly join destructive cults is patently wrong. Most cult recruits are recruited at a vulnerable moment, without understanding the forces that are brought to bear on them. Sometimes a cult manipulates a recruit´s strength. For example, by playing to my high degree of self-confidence, the Moonies managed to get me, and keep me, at their three-day workshop.

There is no doubt that many people in cults have emotional baggage and other assorted problems -- everyone does. But focusing the blame for cult membership on the individual is a mistake. If a friend or family member blames the cult member, ask him to consider the following:

Why would over 900 men, women, and children follow Jim Jones´ order to drink Kool Aid laced with cyanide?
Why would members allow David Koresh to have sex with every woman in the group (including minors), while other men were not allowed to have sex at all, even with their wives? Why did most members die in flames rather than surrender to the authorities?
Why would seven male followers of Marshall Applewhite castrate themselves?
Why did the members of Heaven´s Gate ingest the vodka and pills and allow plastic bags to be placed over their heads to smother them?
Why do the Jehovah´s Witnesses want their members to die rather than accept a blood transfusion?
In my twenty-plus years of working with cult-related issues, I can categorically state that most cult members are not "weak" people, looking for someone to tell them what to do. I strongly urge you to meet a few dozen former members and come to your own conclusions.

8. "SHE´S BETTER OFF WHERE SHE IS."
Sometimes family, friends, and even mental health professionals will think that a person is better off in the cult than where they were before their recruitment. It may be tempting to agree, particularly when a person has stopped abusing drugs or alcohol, or when a person is no longer being physically or sexually abused -- although some cults practice physical and sexual abuse.

A cult may provide temporary relief from traumatic circumstances, but cult involvement doesn´t cure anyone´s problems. It substitutes unethical mind control practices for legitimate help. Destructive mind control is itself a form of psychological abuse. In the hands of a cult leader, mind control techniques can be devastating to an individual´s psyche. By inducing a dissociative state and creating a dominant cult identity, cult mind control represses the real issues of the pre-cult and authentic identity. The cult member´s past problems with family members and friends are used to break contact, rather than to resolve past hurt. When people leave a cult, all of these pre-cult issues resurface, along with the problems caused by membership in a destructive cult.

If a person´s pre-cult life was unhealthy and traumatic, then ethical psychotherapy can set them on a path towards healing by facilitating the process of:

Positive growth and change
Building self-esteem
Learning how to trust themselves and others
Developing better strategies for coping with life´s issues When used by a reputable mental health professional, mind control techniques can be enormously effective, provided the client´s autonomy is always respected. For example, there are ethical programs that can help a person overcome a drug or alcohol addiction. These structured environments are healthier and safer than destructive cults, because they encourage clients to:
Think for themselves
Stay in touch with their own feelings and needs
Be part of a meaningful community (without indoctrination)
There is no doubt that people deserve a chance to control their own lives. I know countless former cult members who have become teachers, lawyers, doctors, computer experts, and parents.

9. "HE´LL WALK OUT ON HIS OWN WHEN HE IS READY."
This attitude presumes that the cult member has the resources and free choice to leave. He does not! If he did have free choice, I can say from my own experience, he would have left the group long ago. As we shall see, one vital step of the Strategic Interaction Approach is to remove the phobias that keep the cult member imprisoned. It is important to do what you can to speed up the reality-testing process, because the longer the person stays in a cult, the more damage that is done to the fabric of their life. The more healthy contact that cult members can have with family, friends, and non-members, the better their chance to leave sooner.

Former members often express anguish over damage done to their psyche and to their valued relationships. They feel sorry about lost educational and career opportunities. Even worse, they feel guilty about the people they recruited, the money they collected, and the unethical behavior they committed as members. The longer they were in, the deeper the regrets when they get out. Cults have shown us that a passive, hands-off, wait-and-see approach can have tragic consequences. Few people suspected that a UFO cult like Heaven´s Gate would end in a mass suicide.

However, there are some families who realize that their loved one was under mind control. I first met Bob and Alice Maeder at a Cult Information Service meeting in New Jersey one year after their daughter Gail´s death. Even though Gail had cut off contact with them, they had made repeated and often ingenious attempts to find and communicate with her. The Maeders are good people and loving parents. Even though they lost their daughter to Heaven´s Gate, they still come to cult awareness meetings, appear on television, and participate in interviews in the hope that other parents will be spared their suffering. They want to tell you: "Do everything you can to rescue your loved one. Don´t sit back and passively wait for her to leave."

10. "WE´VE LOST HOPE."
Giving up hope is a dysfunctional coping mechanism. If family members and friends no longer believe that the person will leave the group, then at least they will no longer be sad and disappointed. Some people have actually told me that they have grieved their loved one as if they had already died. I say, "If the person is still breathing, then they are still alive!"

Negative beliefs can often become self-fulfilling prophecies. People become depressed when they think they have tried everything: they tried to talk with the person and it has done no good; maybe there was a failed rescue attempt; maybe the cult member married within the group and had children. The common cause of hopelessness involves projecting the negative past into the present and future. Family members think that there is nothing else they can do. They feel totally resourceless.

Family and friends must find a way to adopt a new belief: that their loved one will inevitably leave the cult. Hope will sustain and motivate you through the many ups and downs of the rescue process. Build a support system and make sure to include others who have successfully helped their loved ones after long-term cult involvement.

I have encountered innumerable people who have left destructive cults after decades of involvement. Ray Franz ceased his association with the Jehovah´s Witnesses after 60 years. Before you give up hope, I urge you to find long-term ex-cult members to speak with. Despite all of the problems they have when they finally get out, they are always glad to be free. As long as the cult member is alive, there is reason for hope.

To determine the first logical step, review the facts:

How long ago did you talk to your loved one?
What were the circumstances?
Were you practicing goal-oriented communication?
Did you have information about destructive mind control?
Did you have the resources of former members?
Even if you do not know where your friend or loved one is living right now, you can be a part of the solution by participating in SIA work. Every person in a cult is someone´s relative or friend. You can make time to interact positively in the lives of other cult members-individuals in the same group as your loved one, as well as people in other groups-even if you have lost contact with your loved one. The person you help today may help you later, when you have found your loved one.
JayRodney (OP)

12/08/2005 10:20 AM
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Re: Eaglesdisobey forum cult front for Nightshade 09
If, on appropriate occasions, the members tell, enjoy, trade, and/or devise transgressively funny jokes about their denomination, it’s a church.

If such jokes reliably meet with stifling social disapproval, it’s a cult.
Anonymous Coward
12/08/2005 10:20 AM
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Re: Eaglesdisobey forum cult front for Nightshade 09
blink
Anonymous Coward
12/08/2005 10:20 AM
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Re: Eaglesdisobey forum cult front for Nightshade 09
This is my favorite cult


Cult - Aphrodisiac jacket


Sittin’ on a mountain, looking at the sun
Plastic fantastic lobster telephone

Drive on baby, through the electric night
All the way sister, in the taxi of life

Cookin’ in the kitchen, insects on the bone
Hazy, lazy, dream world drippin’ on
Waitin’ for a time bomb, yeah, tick tick tick
away
Somethin’ on the radio, yeah yeah, drip drip drip
all day, yeah

Drive on baby, through the electric night
All the way sister, in the taxi of light
The sunshine glows, but nobody knows
The nighttime’s gone, keep drivin’ on, yeah

Aphrodisiac jacket
Napoleon machine gun
Livin’ on a subway, yeah yeah
From dusk till dawn, yeah

Push baby, push, push, push, yeah...

Sittin’ on a mountain, we’re looking at the sun
Plastic fantastic lobster telephone, yeah

Drive on baby, through the electric night
All the way sister, in the taxi of light
The sunshine glows, but nobody knows
The nighttime’s gone, keep drivin’ on
nutshade02..hahahah! (OP)

12/08/2005 10:20 AM
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Re: Eaglesdisobey forum cult front for Nightshade 09
It´s all about one good turn deserves another.
:zkk_exanis:
WallNutshadetree (OP)

12/08/2005 10:20 AM
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Re: Eaglesdisobey forum cult front for Nightshade 09
You go ac 62!headbang
JayRodney (OP)

12/08/2005 10:20 AM
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Re: Eaglesdisobey forum cult front for Nightshade 09
Cult that specializes in certain hair-care products: Jojoba´s Witnesses
Cult that specializes in certain male toiletries: Mennenites
Cult that specializes in drooling: Salivation Army.
Cult that specializes in men´s hairstyles: Himdus.
Cult that worships derrieres: Booty-ists.
Cult that specializes in lingerie: Panty-costals.
Cult that uses everyone else´s churches: Roamin´ Catholics.
Cult that specializes in finding things: Seeks.
Cult that worships the stock market: Dowists.
Cult that specializes in marquees: Signtologists.
Cult that trains actors: Methodists
Cult specializing in maps: Chartists
Cult that specializes in crowds & mobs: Congregationalists
Cult that trains astronomers: Universalists
Cult that takes advantage of everyone: Opportunists
Cult that worships bedsheets: Muslins
Cult that vows to get even: Avengalists
Cult that prays standing in running water: Creek Orthodox
Cult that worships vegetables: Carrotsmatics.
Cult that shuns scissors and razors: Hairy Krishnas. (Dave Coble)
European Pagan cult that sells furniture made from willow shoots: Wicker (Nat)
Cult that sells table accessories: Shakers.
Cult of Jamaican hookers: More, Mon?
Cult of main-street "cruisers": Moonies.
Cult of subliterate pickpockets: Loot-runs.
Cult of Horn & Hardart customers: Press-biterians.
Cult that sells do-it-yourself deities: Assemblies of God.
Cult for people with only five ribs: Pentacostals.
Cult for people with one of everything: Unitarians.
Boomerang (OP)

12/08/2005 10:20 AM
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Re: Eaglesdisobey forum cult front for Nightshade 09
Hi Jay,

Nice title.....
JayRodney (OP)

12/08/2005 10:20 AM
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Re: Eaglesdisobey forum cult front for Nightshade 09
Hey boom!
I thought I would take a cue from shadettree and just start pulling shit out of my ass for no good reason.
I cant wait till kate posts all the times we pee peed in her eaglesdisobey brand beer.
I was listening to the way they all talk earlier, it s like sitting outside the window of a trailer park about 2:00 in the afternoon listening to a conversation from a bunch of redneck bucktooth backwoods creeps that have been drinking sence 6:30 am.
I trust Shady hasnt Hacked...cough cough cough...sorry furball. Kate knows about furballs.
I trust he hasnt hacked bills forum yet...
As if!
He can barely use english, let alone code!
How do you spell WANNABE!
Anonymous Coward
12/08/2005 10:20 AM
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Re: Eaglesdisobey forum cult front for Nightshade 09
Sounds like Glp Admin.

they are cult, sells poison for the brain.

go to bad place.









militia



adminpower
JayRodney (OP)

12/08/2005 10:20 AM
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Re: Eaglesdisobey forum cult front for Nightshade 09
12874...lmao
Truly Ive never had a problem with the admin here. I think a lot of ´em actually.
There really good about things as long as they dont have to babysit you or worry about you making threats.
And they seem to be good tolerent people.
shaggy (OP)

12/08/2005 10:20 AM
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Re: Eaglesdisobey forum cult front for Nightshade 09
Wow Jay! Way to unload! I´ve started a new volume in my archives with your name on it!
shaggy (OP)

12/08/2005 10:20 AM
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Re: Eaglesdisobey forum cult front for Nightshade 09
nightshade is as much an enigma to me as drB

and I don´t wanna understand why

cult is an odd thing to throw out there

i´m getting a little uncomfortable with "saga" as well. How about the Burisch Extravaganza!
or BurischFest! (saga always makes me think of Lassie, hmmm)

neurons humming
JayRodney (OP)

12/08/2005 10:20 AM
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Re: Eaglesdisobey forum cult front for Nightshade 09
Well thank you Shagster! It´s all about raising peoples awareness to Nightshades flat out stupidity and exposing those cult members at eaglesdisobey who blindly follow he/she/it.


I cant for the life of me understand what is making them all so goddamn stupid over there, but it sure is working.

Oh well...He hasnt seen nothin´ yet!

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