Are obe/astral projection real?

Bump. Thx in advance.

I'm not a pro. I had a very limited projection once, and many "didn't quite make it".

This doesn't count the many lucid dreams I've had which I'm sure took place in the Astral.

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It's real.

It's dangerous.

Here's the problem: The Earth and it's Astral Double are stuck in negative polarity right now. That means that whatever you find in the Astral isn't going to be good. No MATTER HOW GOOD IT MIGHT APPEAR TO BE.

In otherwords, you could go there, find paradise, and talk to many luminous Angelic beings who are stunningly beautiful and tell you fantastic secrets.

The problem is, it's all BS. Why? Negative polarity.

How do I know? Nobody, ever, has brought back anything useful from the Astral Plane. No predictions, no information from Dead Relatives that's been helpful in any way, no verifyable universal secrets of all time (In fact, they are most often contradictory to other Astral Warrior's Proclaimations.

See, because Negative Polarity means deception. Deception is negative. And the more deceptive something is, the prettier it looks.

Talk to these Astral Travelers long enough, and you will know what it is that they get out of it: Ego Flattery. It's ALL ABOUT how special they are, how chosen, how magical, etc. It's a ego circle-jerk with these types.

They fight Dragons, you know...

Again, real, not BS, but not good.

I hope you've learned something.

Thanks for the heads up, as far as I can tell it wouldn't be something I would mess with.

When the three balls of light tried to snatch me (very odd transmission was sent to me before it took place, like watching something on tv, three planes flying I realized they weren't planes they morphed into Ufos that's when the snatching began), it was an extremely "dark" feeling, hence why I prayed, there were sounds of loud gears, as if some sort of mechanism was being used to tug my soul from my body, when I was looking down at my feet is when I was really freaking out, but the strangest thing about it, is I felt extremely powerful after, but in a drak destructive way, which is more or less completely against my natural demeanor. It occurred during a day time nap...I ran straight to the liquor store for a six pack afterwards.

Yes, it most certainly is real.

I know, it does sound rather fantastic. I didn't believe it either. I had been listening about it for about 6 months from a guy who was quite proficient, but didn't really believe it. Then my brother started listening to him and believed instantly and started right away doing stuff. So, then I believed and things started happening.

You can do anything and you can ask any question.

Unfortunately, on one of the nights I was successful, the question I had asked was "what is my animal spirit".

Had I known in advance that I would be successful, I would have thought of a better question.

My brother and I once shared a dream, which makes me wonder if it is an alternate universe or something.

My brother sister and mother shared a dream once too.

About your questions, what exactly do you mean, you asked some sort of elemental or spirit in the astral plane?

This is the first time I have ever heard of dragons being mentioned except from the guy that taught me.

It is my understanding that they are evil (in fact, I know they are) and if you defeat them it may solve problems for you in this world.

I asked the question. In the dream, I was sharing a pipe with an old indian. As far as the eye could see, there were different animals in cages. He asked me which one I thought I was and to be honest, I had no clue. There was a black panther up front and I thought they were cool, so I said the panther. A voice (spirit guide I'm guessing) right behind my ear gently said, "no, the timber wolf". Then I instinctively looked up to this cliff above us and there was a timber wolf. It was like I flew up there because I looked at it quite carefully. Wind blew in it's face and it was panting a little. They are much longer than I thought.

When I woke up, I looked up the timber wolf and it fit me to a tee.

So this was an obe or a lucid dream?

I'm not really familiar with either term. When I choose what to do and succeed, what would you call it?

Dragons do come out of the woodwork if you screw with this stuff, just so you know.

Please forget every other book out there and pick up

Astral Dynamics by Robert Bruce.

Best book on AP you will EVER READ. Bar none. Trust me. You will save yourself a lot of time and money by purchasing that book. It encompasses everything every other book ever written has and MORE! much more. It's the only book in my collection i pick up over and over again. It's amazing. It actually teaches you technically how to travel and move around in the astral world. It explains with intricate detail about every question you might have. I mean, EVERY.

You can fight anything you want there. The Astral conforms to your expectations. It will appear as anything you wish as long as it keeps you distracted and convinces you to accept it's lies.

if you're sleeping, it's a lucid dream. I, personally, had an OBE only once. It was very mild. I felt as if I was way up in the sky and was watching everything I was doing, eventhough I was still controlling the things I was doing. At the time, I was completely unaware of OBE's, so I didn't have a chance to use it to the best of my abilities. I've recently been researching DMT to use as a tool to help with OBEs.

Sorry, but this is bullshit. I am not saying Greg B. has no reason to believe this. But this negativity stuff is actually misconception. Read up on the subject. Robert Bruce's book "Astral Dynamics" will put you on the correct path. There are some VERY strong "exit" sensations that accompany this process and people attach all kinds of boogeyman crap to it. It's like most other things, you get out of it what you are putting in. If you believe that roaring sound and intense vibration is a dragon coming to eat you, then thats the experience you'll walk away with. If you believe that roaring sound and intense vibration are sign posts to the wonderful experience of astral projection, then you will relish your astral experience(with crazy amounts of apprehension!! But thats the fun part!!).

If this stuff is real, which it is, your best bet is to practice it now and get all the fear mongering b.s. out of the way while you have the physical to still retreat back to. Do you know where you go when you die? You guessed it, these more subtle realms. However, if you are not prepared and are fearful of all this stuff, when you die you have to suffer through it, because there's no cozy physical bed to retreat back to.

Everybody says it time and time and time again and we just aren't getting it. Let go of your fear already. Actually, you can't really let it go, but confront it! Cause when you do it goes away and you can finally experience existence with out it. Sounds kinda like heaven. This is the spiritual path, moving closer and closer to a place where evil does not exist. You begin to realize evil is just a polarity of love, the other side being good, but its all love. That's hard to believe right now, but that is because we are not awake to the fact. When we are, and eventually you will be, we will start experiencing EVERYTHING as love and consequently will be experiencing our own version of heaven.

You are not going to be eaten by some scary dragon in the astral. What... your physical body turns into a dismembered corpse on you bed because a dragon ate you in the astral, or blew fire on you? No!!!! That's ridiculous! You f'ing wake up on your bed and think what a wild trip/adventure that was! Confront your dragons or whatever fanciful thing your fearing, and use the opportunity you've been given to PROGRESS! Retreating from your fears is exactly that... retreat. Its a step backwards in your progression forward towards less fear and more love and adventure.

Dragons... REALLY?

The astral can be very receptive to your creative thoughts, whether they're under your control or not. This fear mongering is only creating more negativity that Greg B. is talking about. That's your God given creativity at work. Are you going to create more negative experiences for yourself or are you going to grow up and start being a positive source of creativity to and for the benefit of everybody. What experience are YOU going to bring back to the creator?

You never go away. No dragon or demon can eat you an make you no longer exist. You will go on forever and ever and ever. You will experience negativity until you don't want to anymore. But you have to GROW past it. There is nothing that is really evil. Woops! Did I just say that? Nothing is evil, it is just you or a demon having a misconception about the reality of things, including a misconception about yourself BECAUSE YOU ARE FEARFUL!

All that being said... if you are not of sound mind, if you have more feet in fantasy land than in the reality of your current focal point, then you can and probably will scare the shit out of yourself. Everybody moves at their own pace and everyone will eventually get past this difficult lesson we go through as conscious beings to reach a place of understanding where evil does not exist as evil, but as a polarity which is necessary for creative action. Which is what this aspect of God is mostly about. The creator creates a creation and then steps inside to experience it using focal points such as your consciousness. Well, it isn't really your consciousness, its the creator's and that's who you are, just experiencing a fragmented section of yourself. So, creativity and experience is what this whole physical realty thing-a-ma-jig is all about.

Astral travel is real. Their are infinite realities to explore. In the physical, we are at our furthest extension of creative experience as humans on Earth. Their are levels and realities that are closer to this physical reality than others. The "astral planes" being one of those that are closer and easier to visit during your focused awareness on Earth (human experience) because it relates to this physical experience. It helps in laying the creative foundation for creating and existing here.

Go explore if your not too scared! You're going to find yourself there sooner or later, I guarantee that!

I had many OBE's when I was between 16-21 years old. First 5-7 experiences were spontaneous, then I started to search any information about the subject, read tons of books (Kastaneda, Monroe, etc..). Then I became very succesfull in that, it was easy for me to start an OBE or lucid dream.

Then my skills slowly faded out, now I have spontaneous short OBE's from time to time, but it's very rare...

It's real, don't doubt that.

Oh yeah, forgot to mention... dreams, obe's nde's, etc. are all similar things, a movement of your current earthly focused awareness to the more subtle realms. These subtle realms are very receptive to creative thought and therefore are very shifty and can appear to be unreal, even though when we are there they are VERY real!

A friend of mine on fb was telling us how she remote viewed and went under the Vatican. I was searching for information about what she saw when this forum showed up.

Do you think this could be connected?

Here is her post to fb:

"I went to under the Vatican by remote viewing and saw a painting of a Cavalier dressed in black. He was stood on a map of the world holding a sword, the sword was stuck in the map, pointing to a location. I also saw a gold staff. Could where the sword is stuck be the location of the staff? This painting has been hidden for some reason, for what I don't know, but I am going to find out."

Someone replied: WOW!!

And her again:

"Yes, very wow. Especially when I was told by (friend name removed) that a sword was used to mark out the Dragon lines and a tower and church built over them. I know about Dragon lines, but had never known about swords being used to 'pin the dragon'. So I have to find this place, I think it is important."

What do you guys think?

Hmmm.... other than believing remote viewing is possible, I have no idea what you are talking about! Sorry...

Due to spiritual practices i see the trace elements of this world. I think. It could be something else. But i dont know. The Indians call it the prana, the late 19th century esoteric schools called it the ether.

However, I have also read that the astral realm is the lowest invisible realm.

Remote viewing is not the same as astral projection, correct?

I don't know if they are the same things, but if she goes to this place pointed out on the map, and finds something. I guess that would prove it is real.

My most shocking experience, after which my mind had no chance to resist the fact OBE's are real -

A vision of a car appeared in front of me. Everything was looking VERY real, not less real than normal life. Car was working and smoke was coming out from exhaust. I was hearing loud roaring sound of working engine. Snowflakes were slowly falling down.

The most shocking was crystal-sharp realism of the vision. It was absolutely obvious that it isn't a dream.

Next moment I jumped up on my bed - I woke up from the shock of that vision. Same roaring sound of working engine reached my ears. I stood up and came to window. My jaw fell to the floor. There was same car standing in the night under street lights. Smoke was going from exhaust. Snowflakes were slowly falling down.

I have been out of body many times. In none of my experiences did I hear a loud sound or feel intense vibrations.

first time it happened I was meditating and someone came to the front door and knocked. I got up out of bed to answer the door. My bedroom door was closed and when I tried to open it my hand went through the door. I imediately turned and saw my body still laying on the bed. Then instantly back into my body. I had several experiences similar to this one. I experimented. One night I was out of body and went to a friends house that was having a party unbeknown to me. I came back into my body and called him. I told him who was there and some details of what was going on, which he confirmed.

Their are many levels of the astral from the lower to higher and depending on where you are at, dictates what kind of experiences you will have. Remember that the astral corresponds to the emotions. hatred and anger being lower level vibrations, so if your full of anger and hate you might not have such a good time in the astral. Fears can instantly manifest. Which can be used as a healing tools if your aware enough. rken

you were just doing a mantra meditation, that's interesting.

Even the highest realms in the Astral, at this time, are false paradises.

How do I know?

Go there and retrieve information and bring it back.

Is it useful, practical, life-saving, etc?

No, it will not be. And it will be explained as "Well, you just don't get it," or "You're not doing it right" or "You're just uptight, man, totally closed to the experience..."

You get the idea, and you've heard it before.

The Positive Astral Plane, which is locked away from humanity right now, operates in honesty and practicality and is the manner in which the whole world will be enlightened, blissful and happy, finally, to work for the cause of good.

But people hate that, because their favorite things may go away.

Yes. It is as real as this world. (is it?)
Anyway, to me, pranayama was the vehicle to spew into this subtler realm (it has kind of dark blue theme or background, if you meditate then at some point you reach this dark blue space - an imaginal mental space you can explore it or can transcend it and go beyond, this is really not so important for your unfoldment(waking up), it should be just natural).

Also I wonder why do I see everything with the same binocular vision in OBE's when I don't have eyes there... :) I mean it's not a fish-eye-360-degrees or something else, but just the same human binocular vision.

To whom does it appear locked?
Everything is unlocked and no-thing is hidden. It may appear otherwise because of veil of ignorance. When humans will start moving within, then all those worlds will be revealed easily. Now humans give too much attention to mundane things like eating, sex and clothes.
But I'll repeat myself, those occult worlds are not necessary for your unfoldment, it doesn't matter in what world you are, everywhere you need to take yourself. Better to focus and try to know this 'self'.

No, not a mantra. Just watching the breath. rken

You speak as if you have experienced this yourself. Is that true? Or have you read it in a book or online? If so, the information you are relaying here could be coming from these false prophets you are talking about! These falsehoods are trying to keep you locked in this mindset, that things are actually bad... that's why they are false prophets. False prophets do not speak of love and spiritual progression, they speak of fear and complacency or retreat. Fear and evil is real to those who are experiencing it. But once you begin to see the effects of conquering your fear you begin to see that being fearful was holding you back from enlightenment, or in other words, a broader ability to express and experience love instead of hate or fear.

Here is the point... because we ultimately create our own reality, when you believe something like the positive astral plane is locked away from humanity, what you mean to say is that it is locked away from YOU. YOU have closed yourself off from it... In other words, when you say something like this you aren't speaking for me! Your speaking for yourself! I've experienced the positive!

When you say that people "hate that", you mean YOU hate that, not because your favorite thing may go away but because you have not experienced your favorite thing because you have locked the positive aspects of the astral away.

When you say the whole world will be enlightened you are very wrong. Enlightenment is a personal journey, as it should be. If you are not prepared for spiritual progression, when the opportunity comes knocking you will be too fearful to participate and you will do what you do concerning astral exploration, you will retreat and continue to experience negativity until you decide to face your fears and grow out of them. In due time.

The door opens once in awhile here on Earth and the opportunity arises for dramatic evolutions in spirit and in body. Another opening is soon to occur. People who have this fearful mentality will experience this opportunity as a tremendously trying and negative experience and most likely will regress, blowing your opportunity for accelerated spiritual progression. People who have been determined to face fears and see confrontation of fears as an opportunity to embrace and express more love will be open for a tremendous blessing.