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Breaking News * Urgent * Telegraph: EU On Verge of Systemic Economic Collapse

 
Intentionally Blank (OP)

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07/19/2011 04:43 PM
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Re: Breaking News * Urgent * Telegraph: EU On Verge of Systemic Economic Collapse
This will be great for the US dollar and US markets. Not so much for EU though. Thanks god we were able to shift the burden of our mortgage collapse overseas. Genius.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1196210


Er... do you have any IDEA just how exposed US banks are to a Eurozone collapse? I think its in trillions...

[link to streetlightblog.blogspot.com]

'...2. The aggregate CDS exposures of the big US banks are certainly large enough to be plausibly consistent with the BIS estimate of about $100 bn in indirect exposures to peripheral Europe. If you add up the highlighted numbers (and make a guess at Citi's position), it seems reasonable to guess that the total net open positions on CDS protection sold to third parties by the big US banks is between $1,500 and $2,000billion. Attributing $35 bn of that (about 2%) to Greece, which has certainly had one of the most active markets (proportionally) for CDS contracts over the past year, doesn't seem to be a stretch...'

If the Eurozone goes down, so do you.
Anonymous Coward
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07/19/2011 04:44 PM
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Re: Breaking News * Urgent * Telegraph: EU On Verge of Systemic Economic Collapse
The perfect storm is brewing: the disintegration of the Euro coinciding with a US default.

Likely outcome: widespread civil conflicts.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1371719

Planned to the second, I assure you!
 Quoting: Rose Croix


I hope you all know this is a plan of the devil
economic collapse is a stage before the devil who shows up as the "angel of light" and appears as a genuis

it was he who planned it in the first place
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1474193
Anonymous Coward
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07/19/2011 04:45 PM
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Re: Breaking News * Urgent * Telegraph: EU On Verge of Systemic Economic Collapse
Looks like this is it, folks. Full-scale systemic economic collapse may have just started. I would very much appreciate it if this thread was kept open for serious discussion.

Just out, 45 minutes ago, From Ambrose Evans Pritchard of the London Daily Telegraph, (Ambrose Evans-Pritchard is International Business Editor of The Daily Telegraph. He has covered world politics and economics for 30 years, based in Europe, the US, and Latin America. He joined the Telegraph in 1991, serving as Washington correspondent and later Europe correspondent in Brussels).

[link to www.telegraph.co.uk]

Only Germany can save EMU as contagion turns systemic

'...Europe's leaders have finally run out of time. If they fail to agree on some form of debt pooling and shared fiscal destiny at Thursday's emergency summit, they risk a full-fledged run on South Europe's bond markets and a disorderly collapse of monetary union...'

'...The International Monetary Fund said there is now "serious risk" of eurozone contagion with "large" potential knock-on effects worldwide. "Market participants remain unconvinced that a sustainable solution is at hand," it said.

Suki Mann from Societe Generale caught the mood in a note to clients, asking whether it is "all over". "Eurozone politicians don't – or don't want to – understand that the eurozone as we know it is on the precipice. Greece appears beyond repair, Italy is on the brink, and the chances are that the euro might be no more very soon," he said.

RBS fears that Europe is on the cusp of "system-wide convulsion" after yields on Spanish 10-year bonds reached post-EMU records of 6.34pc this week, and Italian yields topped 6pc. "We believe that Spain has entered the danger zone for yield levels," said Harvender Sian, the bank's credit strategist, who fears the "point-of-no-return" may be 6.5pc. "Given that Spain [and likely soon Italy] has entered this territory, there is a growing risk that a large systemic risk event is plausible in the near term and if not then in a matter of weeks."

The bank has called for a bail-out fund with €2 trillion of full lending power to stabilise the system, even if this risks pushing German debt levels above 110pc of GDP and causing apoplexy in the Bundestag.

The bond fund Pimco has its own idea: throwing Greece, Ireland and Portugal to the wolves, and concentrating €1 trillion in "overwhelming force" to defend Spain and Italy. That major players should utter such thoughts shows how fast events are moving.

For 18 months the EU has treated the serial crises on the EMU margins as liquidity headaches. It hoped that time would slowly lift the distressed debtors off the reefs, while the penal terms of "Ultima Ratio" attached to bailout loans would deter other EMU states from seeking help. "Shock and Awe" rhetoric would do the rest.

The strategy has failed because it did not acknowledge that the deeper crisis is a North-South structural gap that has left half the eurozone with variants of 1930s debt-deflation, a condition that cannot be solved by austerity measures or by any one country alone.

"We are approaching the endgame for this part of the European sovereign crises: the number of cans that now need kicking down the road would challenge the left foot of Lionel Messi," said Gary Jenkins from Evolution Securities. "The chances are that the EU will only take the step of fiscal union or common bond issuance at one minute to midnight on a weekend when it is clear that the system is close to collapse." ...'

For more, see link above

If you're in Europe, I recommend you get your savings somewhere safe right now.
 Quoting: Intentionally Blank



5a5a5a5a
Anonymous Coward
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07/19/2011 04:45 PM
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Re: Breaking News * Urgent * Telegraph: EU On Verge of Systemic Economic Collapse
Germany will rise again
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1429815


Jawohl mein Herr!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1473584



Kannst mich mahl am arsch lecken!!!
Anonymous Coward
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07/19/2011 04:45 PM
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Re: Breaking News * Urgent * Telegraph: EU On Verge of Systemic Economic Collapse
Looks like we are on course for 2012, not nescessarily the end, but the collapse and failure of "civilized" mankind.
All it takes now is for katla to kick off big time to tip it over the edge- and Katla is stiring! Funny how everthing has come to a head all at once isn't it? Almost like it was designed to! Hmmmm.
MadGame

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07/19/2011 04:47 PM

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Re: Breaking News * Urgent * Telegraph: EU On Verge of Systemic Economic Collapse
The perfect storm is brewing: the disintegration of the Euro coinciding with a US default.

Likely outcome: widespread civil conflicts.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1371719


Could be but i doubt it ... 2 min untill midnight and the politicians will buckle to only kick the can down the street.

If the can, can be kicked ... It will be. The only time a politician faces the music is when he is caught Red Handed. And still they try to make excuses.
What is a LIBTARD You Ask ? - A Retarded Liberal ( AKA 99.9% of all Democrats ) ... And since ALL Liberals are Retarded ... Hence LIBTARD

Pissing Off LIBTARDS since 1988
Anonymous Coward
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07/19/2011 04:48 PM
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Re: Breaking News * Urgent * Telegraph: EU On Verge of Systemic Economic Collapse
:hide:
 Quoting: hillcrest3


GOT FOOD?
Anonymous Coward
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07/19/2011 04:49 PM
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Re: Breaking News * Urgent * Telegraph: EU On Verge of Systemic Economic Collapse
The perfect storm is brewing: the disintegration of the Euro coinciding with a US default.

Likely outcome: widespread civil conflicts.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1371719


Could be but i doubt it ... 2 min untill midnight and the politicians will buckle to only kick the can down the street.

If the can, can be kicked ... It will be. The only time a politician faces the music is when he is caught Red Handed. And still they try to make excuses.
 Quoting: MadGame


I think many people are missing the point here; the 'can' can only be kicked further down the road by more bailouts - but there is no more money for bailouts. The Euro bailouts can only realistically come from Germany, and their people have made their thoughts very clear indeed. No more bailouts = no more kicking the can.
Kimchi

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07/19/2011 04:49 PM
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Re: Breaking News * Urgent * Telegraph: EU On Verge of Systemic Economic Collapse
Well, whatever germany does the northern european countries will follow.

I think it would be a good solution to create a northern european euro. And leave southern europe with the old one. (the two tier eurozone)
Anonymous Coward
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07/19/2011 04:49 PM
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Re: Breaking News * Urgent * Telegraph: EU On Verge of Systemic Economic Collapse
'...The International Monetary Fund said there is now "serious risk" of eurozone contagion with "large" potential knock-on effects worldwide.

"Market participants remain unconvinced that a sustainable solution is at hand," it said.



If you're in Europe, I recommend you get your savings somewhere safe right now.
 Quoting: Intentionally Blank


Ah, there is nowhere safe for finances - the Europeans are the ones extending credit to debt ridden America - if Europe fails, whose gonna loan us any money?

If Europe fails, America will be right there beside her, along with the rest of the world...
Anonymous Coward
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07/19/2011 04:50 PM
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Re: Breaking News * Urgent * Telegraph: EU On Verge of Systemic Economic Collapse
'...The International Monetary Fund said there is now "serious risk" of eurozone contagion with "large" potential knock-on effects worldwide.

"Market participants remain unconvinced that a sustainable solution is at hand," it said.



If you're in Europe, I recommend you get your savings somewhere safe right now.
 Quoting: Intentionally Blank


Ah, there is nowhere safe for finances - the Europeans are the ones extending credit to debt ridden America - if Europe fails, whose gonna loan us any money?

If Europe fails, America will be right there beside her, along with the rest of the world...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 275709


can you say world war 3?
hillcrest3

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07/19/2011 04:50 PM
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Re: Breaking News * Urgent * Telegraph: EU On Verge of Systemic Economic Collapse
Kannst mich mahl am arsch lecken!!!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1474248


lol that was probably the filthiest thing I ever put into the Babelfish translator
Water always wins.
GUANO

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07/19/2011 04:50 PM
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Re: Breaking News * Urgent * Telegraph: EU On Verge of Systemic Economic Collapse
the people will change their mind immediately once they are impacted lol... BAILOUT! BAILOUT!
Total Protonic Reversal...
Luvapottamus

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07/19/2011 04:53 PM
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Re: Breaking News * Urgent * Telegraph: EU On Verge of Systemic Economic Collapse
The perfect storm is brewing: the disintegration of the Euro coinciding with a US default.

Likely outcome: widespread civil conflicts.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1371719


The BANKSTERS have RIGGED it to BLOW.

Diffuse it by forcing them through a bankruptcy reorganization based on Glass-Steagall. Speculative garbage has to be thrown into the trash barrel.

They have spun the roulette wheel, and they are betting:

1) The panic tricks us into accepting the new Global Reserve Currency. Roll up your sleeve for digital Rothschild "Gold" chip.

2) Riots/Crackdown (Martial GoverNANCE)

These are Hail Mary moves.

The other results could be:

French Revolution Scenario. Revenge on the oligarchs, get stuck with the most manipulative faction in the end, or just chaos/ dark age.

-or-

Undo what caused this. Decouple the Euro Nations, Decouple the investment banks from the commercial banks, END CENTRAL DEBT BASED MONETARISM, then cooperate to sort out the legitimate debts, and set up a stable system of SOVEREIGN DEBT-FREE currencies.
"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."
- Robert Heinlein, Time Enough for Love
Anonymous Coward
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07/19/2011 04:55 PM
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Re: Breaking News * Urgent * Telegraph: EU On Verge of Systemic Economic Collapse
the people will change their mind immediately once they are impacted lol... BAILOUT! BAILOUT!
 Quoting: GUANO


But by then it will be too late.

Once chaos starts it will have a life of it's own and it won't be brought under control for decades, or maybe centuries. Just like after the fall of the Roman Empire Europe (and North America with it) will fall into a new Dark Ages.
Luvapottamus

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07/19/2011 04:57 PM
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Re: Breaking News * Urgent * Telegraph: EU On Verge of Systemic Economic Collapse
This will be great for the US dollar and US markets. Not so much for EU though. Thanks god we were able to shift the burden of our mortgage collapse overseas. Genius.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1196210


Er... do you have any IDEA just how exposed US banks are to a Eurozone collapse? I think its in trillions...

[link to streetlightblog.blogspot.com]

'...2. The aggregate CDS exposures of the big US banks are certainly large enough to be plausibly consistent with the BIS estimate of about $100 bn in indirect exposures to peripheral Europe. If you add up the highlighted numbers (and make a guess at Citi's position), it seems reasonable to guess that the total net open positions on CDS protection sold to third parties by the big US banks is between $1,500 and $2,000billion. Attributing $35 bn of that (about 2%) to Greece, which has certainly had one of the most active markets (proportionally) for CDS contracts over the past year, doesn't seem to be a stretch...'

If the Eurozone goes down, so do you.
 Quoting: Intentionally Blank



It's all one big speculative debt circle-jerk.

Look towards Iceland for the example of what to do.
"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."
- Robert Heinlein, Time Enough for Love
Intentionally Blank (OP)

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07/19/2011 04:58 PM
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Re: Breaking News * Urgent * Telegraph: EU On Verge of Systemic Economic Collapse
The perfect storm is brewing: the disintegration of the Euro coinciding with a US default.

Likely outcome: widespread civil conflicts.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1371719


The BANKSTERS have RIGGED it to BLOW.

Diffuse it by forcing them through a bankruptcy reorganization based on Glass-Steagall. Speculative garbage has to be thrown into the trash barrel.

They have spun the roulette wheel, and they are betting:

1) The panic tricks us into accepting the new Global Reserve Currency. Roll up your sleeve for digital Rothschild "Gold" chip.

2) Riots/Crackdown (Martial GoverNANCE)

These are Hail Mary moves.

The other results could be:

French Revolution Scenario. Revenge on the oligarchs, get stuck with the most manipulative faction in the end, or just chaos/ dark age.

-or-

Undo what caused this. Decouple the Euro Nations, Decouple the investment banks from the commercial banks, END CENTRAL DEBT BASED MONETARISM, then cooperate to sort out the legitimate debts, and set up a stable system of SOVEREIGN DEBT-FREE currencies.
 Quoting: Luvapottamus


You've made some good points here. All very sensible, if we lived in a sane world and could turn the clock back a few years. Sadly, I think we may have gone too far down the road for what you've suggested. Decades of greed, corruption and head-in-the-sand denial have left us with no options other than chaos and potential slavery.
Anonymous Coward
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07/19/2011 05:00 PM
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Re: Breaking News * Urgent * Telegraph: EU On Verge of Systemic Economic Collapse
'...The International Monetary Fund said there is now "serious risk" of eurozone contagion with "large" potential knock-on effects worldwide.

"Market participants remain unconvinced that a sustainable solution is at hand," it said.



If you're in Europe, I recommend you get your savings somewhere safe right now.
 Quoting: Intentionally Blank


Ah, there is nowhere safe for finances - the Europeans are the ones extending credit to debt ridden America - if Europe fails, whose gonna loan us any money?

If Europe fails, America will be right there beside her, along with the rest of the world...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 275709


can you say world war 3?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1429815


Yup...
Anonymous Coward
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07/19/2011 05:01 PM
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Re: Breaking News * Urgent * Telegraph: EU On Verge of Systemic Economic Collapse
[link to bigcharts.marketwatch.com]

DJIA: +1.63%

Nasdaq: +2.22%
Intentionally Blank (OP)

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07/19/2011 05:03 PM
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Re: Breaking News * Urgent * Telegraph: EU On Verge of Systemic Economic Collapse
[link to bigcharts.marketwatch.com]

DJIA: +1.63%

Nasdaq: +2.22%
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1474284


The crash protection team seem to be overdoing it a bit today...
Anonymous Coward
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07/19/2011 05:03 PM
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Re: Breaking News * Urgent * Telegraph: EU On Verge of Systemic Economic Collapse
the people will change their mind immediately once they are impacted lol... BAILOUT! BAILOUT!
 Quoting: GUANO


But by then it will be too late.

Once chaos starts it will have a life of it's own and it won't be brought under control for decades, or maybe centuries. Just like after the fall of the Roman Empire Europe (and North America with it) will fall into a new Dark Ages.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1371719


You would be correct - decades - this will be the beginning of the end (beginning of sorrows per Y'shua) leading to the tribulation in 2033 AD and the return 2040 AD. It sets the stage he discribed with, "nation rising against nation and kingdom against kingdom." If the nations are at each others throats then, obviously, the UN has ceased to exist for all practicle purposes...
Luvapottamus

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07/19/2011 05:04 PM
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Re: Breaking News * Urgent * Telegraph: EU On Verge of Systemic Economic Collapse
'...The International Monetary Fund said there is now "serious risk" of eurozone contagion with "large" potential knock-on effects worldwide.

"Market participants remain unconvinced that a sustainable solution is at hand," it said.



If you're in Europe, I recommend you get your savings somewhere safe right now.
 Quoting: Intentionally Blank


Ah, there is nowhere safe for finances - the Europeans are the ones extending credit to debt ridden America - if Europe fails, whose gonna loan us any money?

If Europe fails, America will be right there beside her, along with the rest of the world...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 275709


can you say world war 3?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1429815


Nope, can't say it.

I prefer Glass-Steagall:


Last Edited by Luvapottamus on 07/19/2011 05:04 PM
"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."
- Robert Heinlein, Time Enough for Love
Anonymous Coward
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07/19/2011 05:09 PM
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Re: Breaking News * Urgent * Telegraph: EU On Verge of Systemic Economic Collapse
You know what is really funny (considering how we are all using it right now), is that nobody mentions the implications of the internet in all this.

I genuinely don't think that the systems can ever be sorted as long as the net is here. It has been like Pandora's box. It has changed everything. It has changed the way we all think and make decisions and created an underlying instability.

For hundreds of years the economic systems only 'worked' because of what people DIDN'T know. Now everyone has access to so much information that is has caused chaos.

Think of it this way. Small shops used to survive and prosper because they had a relatively protected local market. They had almost guaranteed customers because people could only realistically shop in their local area, and they could make a reasonable profit because consumers didn't have a way of knowing wholesale prices, and didn't have the ability to instantly and easily compare prices with thousands of other retailers. Ignorance made things work.

Now all of that has changed. Its no longer possible to hide things - and because of that things will collapse.

Banking systems can't work any longer. Trading can't work any longer. Education and youth aspiration is doomed. Anger is sure to grow.

Welcome to the maelstrom.
Anonymous Coward
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07/19/2011 05:09 PM
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Re: Breaking News * Urgent * Telegraph: EU On Verge of Systemic Economic Collapse
Yet the Dow is up up and a away!
 Quoting: Sedi


Exactly. Nothing to worry about, just bear-tard fear mongering.

The Chinese are the ones buying up all the Euro bonds and so long as they get a high return AND keep the Euro propped up so their own exports are relatively cheaper they don't care.

DOW 14K by Labor Day!
RP42

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07/19/2011 05:10 PM
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Uhh Ohh...
--Original RP42 SYSTEMS Corp.--
bill shitters 1.2

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07/19/2011 05:11 PM

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Re: Breaking News * Urgent * Telegraph: EU On Verge of Systemic Economic Collapse
I might be copying a previous post

things are BAd and 200 days till the end
they euro mob are talking the situation to ensure that
it will not rise. to far. when. barry the kenyan. puts. may be
one trillion on the debt limt

Last Edited by bill shitters 1.2 on 07/19/2011 05:13 PM
The retired thread killer


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we come in peace shoot to kill
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Anonymous Coward
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07/19/2011 05:11 PM
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Re: Breaking News * Urgent * Telegraph: EU On Verge of Systemic Economic Collapse
USA is 120.8 trillion in debt
most of the debt is unseen

watching a show on tv John Ankerberg right now
Anonymous Coward
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07/19/2011 05:12 PM
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Re: Breaking News * Urgent * Telegraph: EU On Verge of Systemic Economic Collapse
we wait until the euro collapses and gold goes through the roof! then we sell off the other half of our gold at astronomical price for British Pounds sterlin, or what ever new euro currecny emerges( yea they will have to have a currency of some sort no matter what)

Then we will be ok. Oh yea, slap a 50% tax on all chinese and indian or eastern european imported goods as well..

if they dont like it we can make our own!

Thankyou goodbye,
Anonymous Coward
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07/19/2011 05:14 PM
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Re: Breaking News * Urgent * Telegraph: EU On Verge of Systemic Economic Collapse
Yet the Dow is up up and a away!
 Quoting: Sedi


Yes this is bullish for equities, commodities, bonds and politicians seeking re-election.

It proves beyond a doubt that recoveries can be completely fabricated by dissemination of false or misleading information and high frequency trading algorithms trading on back door provided sovereign liquidity.
Luckystrike

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07/19/2011 05:15 PM
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Re: Breaking News * Urgent * Telegraph: EU On Verge of Systemic Economic Collapse
You know what is really funny (considering how we are all using it right now), is that nobody mentions the implications of the internet in all this.

I genuinely don't think that the systems can ever be sorted as long as the net is here. It has been like Pandora's box. It has changed everything. It has changed the way we all think and make decisions and created an underlying instability.

For hundreds of years the economic systems only 'worked' because of what people DIDN'T know. Now everyone has access to so much information that is has caused chaos.

Think of it this way. Small shops used to survive and prosper because they had a relatively protected local market. They had almost guaranteed customers because people could only realistically shop in their local area, and they could make a reasonable profit because consumers didn't have a way of knowing wholesale prices, and didn't have the ability to instantly and easily compare prices with thousands of other retailers. Ignorance made things work.

Now all of that has changed. Its no longer possible to hide things - and because of that things will collapse.

Banking systems can't work any longer. Trading can't work any longer. Education and youth aspiration is doomed. Anger is sure to grow.

Welcome to the maelstrom.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1371719



Well put and I totally agree! They can't hide the information or themselves anymore. Never in any time in history has the general population had this much access to information as is available today.

clappa
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