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How did Jesus' death wash away our sins?

 
Scrodiddles (OP)

User ID: 1122076
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07/28/2011 09:05 PM
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Re: How did Jesus' death wash away our sins?

I am actually being sincere here. I was raised in a Southern Babtist home and have read the bible a fair share of times, but I am at a total loss when it comes to understanding how Jesus dying on the cross translates into me being forgiven for my "sins".
...


I will also be sincere.

You will continue to be at total loss to understanding this unless God himself causes you to understand it.
 Quoting: Scrodiddles


That is sort of an elitist view point. Because I will have to assume by your tone that you understand it. Which means that God has favored you and not me. This leads into a whole new discussion if that is true.
I am in search of Truth, but still emptying my cup.
Anonymous Coward
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07/28/2011 09:05 PM
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Re: How did Jesus' death wash away our sins?
The smart-ass tone of your post suggests you think you are owed a simple explanation that you can put in your favorites folder. F**k you.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 596042


There are a lot of strange people running around making this claim, and trying to persuade disinterested people that it matters. So I think it is reasonable to demand an explanation.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1485849


Yes but what is unreasonable is to keep receiving a sensible, rational answer and keep rejecting it as not good enough.

So far there is the "Jesus is Santa Claus for adults" posts, which have provided nothing but clutter.

There are the sensible honest answers explaining the logical basis for answering OP's question.

And then there is OP who's like "Guys you don't understand! I'm trying to take religion, and redefine and rename terms to come up with my own religion!"

Just trying to set some reasonable boundaries here (like it matters or something...)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1475638


Sorry I seem to have missed all the sensible rational answers. This message thread is the first time I have seen the question asked directly like this. I did not realize that the question has already been satisfactorily answered. Can you please direct me to the sensible rational discussion that took place previously, so that I can go there and read, instead of here.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: How did Jesus' death wash away our sins?
The smart-ass tone of your post suggests you think you are owed a simple explanation that you can put in your favorites folder. F**k you.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 596042


There are a lot of strange people running around making this claim, and trying to persuade disinterested people that it matters. So I think it is reasonable to demand an explanation.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1485849


Yes but what is unreasonable is to keep receiving a sensible, rational answer and keep rejecting it as not good enough.

So far there is the "Jesus is Santa Claus for adults" posts, which have provided nothing but clutter.

There are the sensible honest answers explaining the logical basis for answering OP's question.

And then there is OP who's like "Guys you don't understand! I'm trying to take religion, and redefine and rename terms to come up with my own religion!"

Just trying to set some reasonable boundaries here (like it matters or something...)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1475638


There are post on here that I can not control and they may not be very fair towards Christianity, but I am trying to be reasonable. I will, however, disagree that actual answers were given. If you read back you will see that people have only repeated the story and offered no explanation. I have had the story repeated to me by very frustrated pastors all my life. I have even had one scream "I don't know! Just have faith, kid!"

So forgive me if repetition is not accepted as a plausible answer.
 Quoting: Scrodiddles


No doubt, and I definitely don't want to come across like I'm lumping you in with the crowd of lame answers on here.

But I'm not going to supply an answer that gives you a way to have a religion without any faith. No one is.
tim AKA Jarhead

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07/28/2011 09:05 PM

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Re: How did Jesus' death wash away our sins?
Once Jesus came to this Earth and experienced physical life.

Without Sinning.

He became something more than he was before.

When he was here physically he could heal individuals of their sin.

Now he can heal everyone.

Permanently.

But, you have to want it.
Scrodiddles (OP)

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07/28/2011 09:06 PM
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Re: How did Jesus' death wash away our sins?
This was your original question:

"but I am at a total loss when it comes to understanding how Jesus dying on the cross translates into me being forgiven for my "sins".


I answered it!

There are "eternal principles and laws" at play and they are strict. Are you as young as your avatar? If so, then you have not had the time or experience to understand the depths of the mysteries of Gods kingdom. Even the prophets, who received visitations and visions were lacking complete understanding, by their own admittance.
 Quoting: fairflight


I would be careful to mark my wisdom by my age. You assume I have only lived this one life. This body is 23. This Self is not.

Perhaps I ask a question on this thread, not to receive and answer for myself, but to lead others to ask a question too.

Last Edited by Scrodiddles on 07/28/2011 09:07 PM
I am in search of Truth, but still emptying my cup.
Anonymous Coward
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07/28/2011 09:06 PM
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Re: How did Jesus' death wash away our sins?
No one can explain the Gospel.

It is foolishness to some.
It is a scandal to others.
Anonymous Coward
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07/28/2011 09:06 PM
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Re: How did Jesus' death wash away our sins?
I am actually being sincere here. I was raised in a Southern Babtist home and have read the bible a fair share of times, but I am at a total loss when it comes to understanding how Jesus dying on the cross translates into me being forgiven for my "sins".

And please don't just post scripture that just states it matter-of-factly as if I should ignore that we live in a world where things have to correlate.

So they torture him, place him on a cross, and then wait for him to die. He passes away, is reborn and then ascends to heaven. Now I get forgiven if I have impatient thoughts? How does that work? Did he die, go to heaven and flip on a breaker switch, resurrect on earth to check if it worked and then just strolled on back to heaven? What happened during his death that made our sins forgivable?

It's like a father bursting through the door and telling his son that cursing is now allowed in the house because he hit a deer on the way home. How in the world is it connected?
 Quoting: Scrodiddles


It doesn't. the bible is full of lies and so are the teachings about Jesus. The way the soul is constructed, only YOU can clear your sins recorded in your morontial soul. That will be proven as science one day.
 Quoting: Nobody in Particular

Surprisingly, I agree with this statement. I'm glad someone else gets it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1454000


Hahaha. SURPRISINGLY, me too.
 Quoting: Scrodiddles

Well, see what comes of this: [link to projectcamelotproductions.com]

Of this, "Earth History" 1 through 4 are worth downloading and listening to (from 2002, but ever so relevant; prior to the video interviews from above): [link to bitsnoop.com]

You'll need to download through uTorrent or something, the link above. If you have downloading issues, lemme know, I'll download and seed it myself.
Anonymous Coward
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07/28/2011 09:07 PM
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Re: How did Jesus' death wash away our sins?
I am actually being sincere here. I was raised in a Southern Babtist home and have read the bible a fair share of times, but I am at a total loss when it comes to understanding how Jesus dying on the cross translates into me being forgiven for my "sins".

And please don't just post scripture that just states it matter-of-factly as if I should ignore that we live in a world where things have to correlate.

So they torture him, place him on a cross, and then wait for him to die. He passes away, is reborn and then ascends to heaven. Now I get forgiven if I have impatient thoughts? How does that work? Did he die, go to heaven and flip on a breaker switch, resurrect on earth to check if it worked and then just strolled on back to heaven? What happened during his death that made our sins forgivable?

It's like a father bursting through the door and telling his son that cursing is now allowed in the house because he hit a deer on the way home. How in the world is it connected?
 Quoting: Scrodiddles


One thing you must understand...Jesus said He came for the Lost Sheep of Israel who had been blinded and divorced by the Father. The Father being Omnipotent cannot break His own Law BUT He said when He divorced Israel that He would one day re-marry Israel.In His Law of Divorce (which He can not break) Once a woman (israel) has been given a writ of divorce she cannot re-marry until the original Husbandman dies for if she did then she would be an adultress and the one who married her would be an adulterer. Since the Father was the original Husbandman and Israel was the bride He could not re-marry Israel until "The Original Husbandman died " so as not to break His own Perfect Law...Jesus comes to this Earth and is the Father incarnate (original Husbandman) He dies on the cross (original husbandman dies) and then The Father is able to re-marry Israel w/o breaking His Law. SO Jesus died for the sin of Israel so that Israel could be brought back into the Promises and COvenants the the Father had espoused to theit forefathers...
Who I AM
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Re: How did Jesus' death wash away our sins?
It is a CONSPIRACY to keep us IN HELL forever... WAITING FOR NOTHING!!!

Jesus gave us an example to follow!!!

The ONLY WAY OUT!!!

NOT worship.

THIS IS THE TRUTH!!!

Also:

God tried to warn us about "the knowledge of good and evil" (JUDGMENT).

But the satanists removed that and reincarnation from the teachings to screw us!!!
Anonymous Coward
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07/28/2011 09:08 PM
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Re: How did Jesus' death wash away our sins?
That is sort of an elitist view point. Because I will have to assume by your tone that you understand it. Which means that God has favored you and not me. This leads into a whole new discussion if that is true.
 Quoting: Scrodiddles


Not an elitist.
I am no better than anyone else.

It only means that I believe that God has favored me now, and that I hope and pray that I will have a future brother in you.
Scrodiddles (OP)

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07/28/2011 09:08 PM
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Re: How did Jesus' death wash away our sins?
...


It doesn't. the bible is full of lies and so are the teachings about Jesus. The way the soul is constructed, only YOU can clear your sins recorded in your morontial soul. That will be proven as science one day.
 Quoting: Nobody in Particular

Surprisingly, I agree with this statement. I'm glad someone else gets it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1454000


Hahaha. SURPRISINGLY, me too.
 Quoting: Scrodiddles

Well, see what comes of this: [link to projectcamelotproductions.com]

Of this, "Earth History" 1 through 4 are worth downloading and listening to (from 2002, but ever so relevant; prior to the video interviews from above): [link to bitsnoop.com]

You'll need to download through uTorrent or something, the link above. If you have downloading issues, lemme know, I'll download and seed it myself.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1454000


I am actually familiar with this, but not sure if I have seen this specific video set. I will watch it because you were kind enough to share it, but I will also say that I already believe we are each Ascending at our own rate. Jesus is our brother and "Graduated early" so to speak.
I am in search of Truth, but still emptying my cup.
Anonymous Coward
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07/28/2011 09:09 PM
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Re: How did Jesus' death wash away our sins?
This is the doctrine of Substitutionary Atonement. In the Old Testament, it was commanded by God that the people sacrifice a perfect lamb so theirs sins would be covered by its innocent blood. Christ came to us in place of the lamb to give His blood as the ultimate sacrifice of the shedding of innocent blood, whoever believed upon his name and accepted His sacrifice,would have their sins forgiven.God was merciful in sending His Son as the payment for our sins, because justice demands that restitution be made for the breaking of the Law.God is perfect so there must be perfect justice, but also perfect mercy.There can never be another blood sacrifice because that would be blasphemy,Christ paid the ultimate price.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1486642


I assure you, I know exactly what you are saying. I have heard the buzzwords more than I can count. I understand what happened according to the doctrine. But I don't understand how one begot the other. How does his death, in a real, logical explanation, actually cause God to forgive my sins? I hope you understand the question I am asking. I am trying to piece together exactly what happens at the moment of Jesus' death that just flips some spiritual switch in the world and now sins are actually things that you can get rid off.
 Quoting: Scrodiddles


OK, we first have to look at the nature of God.
First off, God is perfect, but God is not omnipotent. By this I mean that God cannot do anything that is against His own nature. God is limited in what He can do, He cannot lie, He cannot break his promises, etc.
Second, God is perfect mercy. He only wants to be merciful to His children. But that brings us to God's next attribute.
God is perfect justice. Because of this, God will judge all and His verdicts will be true.
But this leads to a great dilemma for God. His children are sinful, and His innate justice demands that they must be punished for their sins, but God is also mercy, and His sense of mercy commands that His children be forgiven. By His own nature God is trapped, justice will only be served if the penalty for sin is paid, but His perfect mercy calls for Him to forgive.
The ultimate penalty for sin is death, physical, spiritual or both. God wants to blot out the sin from His sight, but His perfect justice has to be served. No man can be punished for the sin of another, it would not be just. This is why Christ came to Earth.
Jesus is God incarnated as a man. Only by subjecting Himself to torture, crucifixion and death, could God satisfy both perfect justice and perfect mercy. Upon Himself the Creator of man took all the sins of man, and "By His stripes we are healed".
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1486642


I disagree. I believe God is all. The good and bad. All things in perfect balance are God. Nothing is outside of God. So nothing is not of God.

Also, you just said "No man can be punished for the sin of another" then went on to explain that Jesus was crucified for sins that were not his. These are the sort of logical errors that lead me away from the Bible in the first place. I thank you for your response, but have you actually let yourself entertain the option that some things may be in error, be it through translation or purposeful manipulation? I mean, the same people that wanted Jesus killed are also the same ones that used his teachings as a control tool. I am speaking of the Romans.
 Quoting: Scrodiddles


But that is the Substitutionary Atonement as laid out in the Old Testament, the blood of the innocent lamb covered the sins of the people for the year, Christ, who you remember is called the Lamb of God, put His blood upon the Mercy Seat for eternity. Some one had to pay the price, and God's justice would not allow Him to accept anything but His own sacrifice as payment.
By the way, saying that "God is all" is almost the same as saying "God is nothing", you have stripped Him of everything that makes Him unique, and are close to the pagan pantheistic cosmology..
Anonymous Coward
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Re: How did Jesus' death wash away our sins?
The smart-ass tone of your post suggests you think you are owed a simple explanation that you can put in your favorites folder. F**k you.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 596042


There are a lot of strange people running around making this claim, and trying to persuade disinterested people that it matters. So I think it is reasonable to demand an explanation.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1485849


Yes but what is unreasonable is to keep receiving a sensible, rational answer and keep rejecting it as not good enough.

So far there is the "Jesus is Santa Claus for adults" posts, which have provided nothing but clutter.

There are the sensible honest answers explaining the logical basis for answering OP's question.

And then there is OP who's like "Guys you don't understand! I'm trying to take religion, and redefine and rename terms to come up with my own religion!"

Just trying to set some reasonable boundaries here (like it matters or something...)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1475638


Sorry I seem to have missed all the sensible rational answers. This message thread is the first time I have seen the question asked directly like this. I did not realize that the question has already been satisfactorily answered. Can you please direct me to the sensible rational discussion that took place previously, so that I can go there and read, instead of here.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1485849


Page 2 and 3 of this thread had some legitimate answers, not counting the many I've given and the others I've probably not even bothered reading. OP doesn't like the answer he's been given but that's not the fault of a lot of the answerers.
Who I AM
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07/28/2011 09:10 PM
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Re: How did Jesus' death wash away our sins?
If we all followed Jesus' example we wouldn't be reincarnating in HELL forever.

That is THE ANSWER.

Idle worship isn't worth a penny.

Imitation is the highest form of praise. Praise Jesus in that way and we'll be back in the garden in no time...
Anonymous Coward
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07/28/2011 09:10 PM
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Re: How did Jesus' death wash away our sins?
Bible = Paulian lies
Anonymous Coward
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07/28/2011 09:10 PM
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Re: How did Jesus' death wash away our sins?
...


There are a lot of strange people running around making this claim, and trying to persuade disinterested people that it matters. So I think it is reasonable to demand an explanation.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1485849


Yes but what is unreasonable is to keep receiving a sensible, rational answer and keep rejecting it as not good enough.

So far there is the "Jesus is Santa Claus for adults" posts, which have provided nothing but clutter.

There are the sensible honest answers explaining the logical basis for answering OP's question.

And then there is OP who's like "Guys you don't understand! I'm trying to take religion, and redefine and rename terms to come up with my own religion!"

Just trying to set some reasonable boundaries here (like it matters or something...)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1475638


Sorry I seem to have missed all the sensible rational answers. This message thread is the first time I have seen the question asked directly like this. I did not realize that the question has already been satisfactorily answered. Can you please direct me to the sensible rational discussion that took place previously, so that I can go there and read, instead of here.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1485849


Page 2 and 3 of this thread had some legitimate answers, not counting the many I've given and the others I've probably not even bothered reading. OP doesn't like the answer he's been given but that's not the fault of a lot of the answerers.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1475638

Thanks. I will go back and look.
Anonymous Coward
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07/28/2011 09:11 PM
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Re: How did Jesus' death wash away our sins?
I'm posting this again because either the OP didn't read it, wants to ignore it, or doesn't have a response....

Hey buddy, this is religion. I'm explaining a belief that pertains to a specific religion. Your answer has been supplied logically, reasonably, and honestly.

So all of your dodging and questions and blabbity-bla-bla basically could be reworded to say...

"Hey guys, can I have physical proof for why I should have faith in something?"

And it's just not going to happen. Religion requires your faith. Accepting the sacrifice of Jesus requires faith. Understanding it doesn't require faith. But accepting it sure will. So if you don't accept it, then don't. If you don't want to have faith in it, then don't. If you don't believe faith should ever be applied to an issue, then don't. But don't act like you aren't being given a substantial answer.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: How did Jesus' death wash away our sins?
If you believe at all in the bible, here is the answer:

Adam was perfect, when he sinned in the garden of eden he lost that perfect life, passing on sin to his offspring, also rejecting God's authority to rule humans. God needed another perfect human to balance out what Adam lost, as was foretold in [Genesis 3:14,15].

The nation of Israel needed continual animal sacrifices because no amount of animals can equal a perfect human life. [Hebrews 10:4].

Before Jesus was born on earth, he was Michael, the archangel and first of all creation. [John 8:23]. Jesus was born a perfect human shielded by holy spirit in Mary's womb. [John 11:27] Was on the earth to tell others about God's kingdom [John 18:36] and what that would bring: i.e.: perfection, everlasting life, etc. [John 17:3]. His death paved the way for people to come to an accurate knowledge of God and the bible with the possibility of everlasting life.

He was dead for 3 days, [Luke 24:46] and was around for over a month to continuing teaching his disciples until he was raised to heaven [Hebrews 9:24] to serve as God's vassal king and back to being in his archangel position...ready to fight at [Revelation 19:14, 16] Armageddon and rule 1,000 years. [Isaiah 2:4].

Hope this helps. The added scripture is so you can see I'm quoting the bible.
 Quoting: cdhowlett 1472636


You have just written a total piece of falsehood. the Adam story is not what the bible states. AT ALL. The nation of Israel NEVER NEED SACRIFICES. How silly. Adam was not perfect either anyway. YOu don't know what the Adam's and Eves do, but what they did was introduce the violet DNA before its time, they lost their patience. And the times were terrible and they were depressed anyway. Understand Adam and Ever were here 38,000 years ago on a fully populated planet at that time. They were not the first people. They were a higher people on a particular mission that all evolutionary planets enjoy at some point. All get an "adam and eve", just not the same Adam and Eve.

"God" needed no other perfect human, where do you ones get this stuff. YOU HAVE MINDS which were supplied by GOD to you, could you learn to USE THEM. IF STUFF SOUNDS LIKE FAIRY TALES, Like Satan Claws for example..... it problem is lies and fairy tales.

His death was not required to pave any way, and he did NOT DIE on the CROSS, he lived, rested in the grave and went to teach in India, married, had 5 kids and died about 115 years of age in fact. You ones need to read Phoenix JOurnal #2 on the life of Jesus, written by JUDAS who was his best friend and scribe and NOT the betrayer. Judas was FRAMED by another with a similar name, really the father of the other with the similar name. Juda Iharioth.

Download this book mostly by Judas. [link to tweeofmeer.webs.com]

Esu (Jesus ) HAS returned, way back in 1954. Judas went to India with him, and after the death of 'jesus" the scrolls Judas wrote were returned to the old grave, and sources above led an priest of this world to them. Some were not readable, but the story is fascinating. Please avail yourself of this knowledge.

Jesus the part that was MICHAEL, was not AA MIchael. That incarnation 2000 years ago, was SHARED by MIchael of Nebadon, who cannot use a human body, being a very HIGH spirit being, so he more or less hitched a ride with Esu Immanuel. Both were Jesus. Michael of Nebadon is the creator of our Universe of Nebadon, which is NOT the whole creation, but a sector OF IT.

He is also returned as I post all the time. SIN IS NOT PASSED to offspring people. The unto the 7th generation means mans errors are reproduced by his offspring because of shitty knowledge and that is a MAJOR problem in religion right now, the lies and misunderstandings passed to the next generation. You ones are also passing all the pollution to the next generation too, you know.

His death was not necessary for the passing of knowledge.
Also he was NOT born of the "holy spirit." for some that believe that. The body is composed of DNA from MALE and FEMALE and the Holy spirit, has no penis or DNA. The Gabriel of Nebadon supplied the Male DNA, but not by sex, by laboratory methods.

Please folks, I work so hard hear, could some of you make use of it? This is not the only planet, it has had humans on it since the time of the dinosaurs, by method of migration from other planets.

Adam and Eve's are special folks from heaven, who, when the natural evolution of the race is as high as it can go, they come to upgrade the DNA. They do this by having many children. Adam and Eve are the violet race. There many children, having perfect DNA can intermarry and do, until for a planet like this there are 500,000 or more pure line descendants. They these are allowed to marry the best of the evolutionary races. This DNA they carry, is at least 24 strand DNA and produces a psychic brain and body.

That mission failed because EVE was convinced by Caligastia, our planetary prince who was part of the Lucifer rebellion, to have sex with an advanced member of the race and interject the violet DNA too early. Since he was planetary prince, but a nut case, she believed him and did it. Adam in his love went and did the same thing , knowing they had blown their mission. To stay with her.

Now this one thing might have been forgiven, (and was later), but you see this is a fucked up mucked up world, and it's leaders from heaven were corrupt and Caligastia purposely wanted to destroy the works of uplifting this race and would have continually caused a multitude of problems so the whole mission was aborted. Adam and eve each lived to over 300 years of age. They were forced from the first garden of eden because of WAR. That is under the eastern Mediterranean now, and the 2nd garden to which they migrated was in Iraq between the Euphrates and that other river, not getting out my map.

ADam and Eve are world leaders when they come, (not the same as the Prince. you see the Prince of this world mentioned in your bible, that was caligastia.)

They show a new way, build a global university system and have advisory councils from "heaven" which none of you have a clue about.

Had the Lucifer rebellion not occurred, that planet would long be in Light and Life now. the rebellion was 200,000 years ago and it's recorded somewhat in Revelations, and some of you think the stars of heaven are still to fall and that already happened long ago.

Michael of Nebadon visited this planet on purpose for many many reasons that go way beyond the teaching mission of Jesus. It has much to do with the resolution of the galactic wars and the anunnaki et all. Major clean up job going on, OK. A whole lot of POLITICAL reasons so to speak.

You ones, to improve upon yourselves, need to STOP this religious CRAP folks, you are a tool of the "satan" you still believe in. Satan isn't here nor is lucifer, but this is a prison world for 10 billion fallen angels and galactic thugs working out their karma. Many of you may well be them. Stop following this silly stuff and grow UP.

Develop your meditation abilities so you can communicate with the FATHER THAT IS INSIDE OF YOU. In that is all truth available to you. Your Father Fragment can communicate with the SPIRIT OF TRUTH bestowed on Pentecost by MIchael of Nebadon, who left the double incarnation at the time of the cross. He LEFT. IT was HE who was seen by the Mary's etc. ESU survived and continued to use the body the shared, and went to India to teach as above. He was NOT in the grave, because he walked out of it! He did not DIE. And that was however what was desired at the time, so that he could go to India in peace to continue his teaching. I am not faulting you on believing the lie for that reason.

These lowly animal bodies do NOT go to heaven. It is YOUR SOUL that is Resurrected and you are given a new body when you arrive on the mansion worlds after your resurrection.

What about all the people who lived and died before Jesus? There was a resurrection then. And what about all the ones since then? IF they are 3rd Circle of spiritual development, they go straight to heaven and awaken in 3 days in their NEW BODY which does not need toilets, all food is absorbed, no SHIT produced. Why would you want to take these crusty forms to heaven? You want to use toilets for eternity? Put on your minds.

Those not 3rd circle wait for a general resurrection and that is even in progress now with the return and there was one around 1000 AD too. I have met christians who will not undergo cremation because they think this body goes to heaven. How silly. How many bodies are LONG decomposed over the last 1000 years since the last intervening general resurrection? PLEASE.....
:big flowers::Black and White : The returned Esu, NOT in the body of 2000 years ago, that body is buried near Srinagar, Kasmir where he made his home and fathered 5 children. His hair is Sandy brownish red, and those big lovely eyes a deep bluish gray. He stand about 7 feet tall. I have met him personally, therefore I know of what I speak.
Celia D.

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Re: How did Jesus' death wash away our sins?
I am actually being sincere here. I was raised in a Southern Babtist home and have read the bible a fair share of times, but I am at a total loss when it comes to understanding how Jesus dying on the cross translates into me being forgiven for my "sins".

And please don't just post scripture that just states it matter-of-factly as if I should ignore that we live in a world where things have to correlate.

So they torture him, place him on a cross, and then wait for him to die. He passes away, is reborn and then ascends to heaven. Now I get forgiven if I have impatient thoughts? How does that work? Did he die, go to heaven and flip on a breaker switch, resurrect on earth to check if it worked and then just strolled on back to heaven? What happened during his death that made our sins forgivable?

It's like a father bursting through the door and telling his son that cursing is now allowed in the house because he hit a deer on the way home. How in the world is it connected?
 Quoting: Scrodiddles


Apparently, I am not worth responding to. However, I will try again. Why do you believe this story in the first place? Why do you believe this particular book is the word of anything more than human?
Anonymous Coward
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07/28/2011 09:12 PM
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Re: How did Jesus' death wash away our sins?
Accepting the sacrifice of Jesus requires gullibility .
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1475638


Fixed it for ya!
Anonymous Coward
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07/28/2011 09:13 PM
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Re: How did Jesus' death wash away our sins?
...

Surprisingly, I agree with this statement. I'm glad someone else gets it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1454000


Hahaha. SURPRISINGLY, me too.
 Quoting: Scrodiddles

Well, see what comes of this: [link to projectcamelotproductions.com]

Of this, "Earth History" 1 through 4 are worth downloading and listening to (from 2002, but ever so relevant; prior to the video interviews from above): [link to bitsnoop.com]

You'll need to download through uTorrent or something, the link above. If you have downloading issues, lemme know, I'll download and seed it myself.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1454000


I am actually familiar with this, but not sure if I have seen this specific video set. I will watch it because you were kind enough to share it, but I will also say that I already believe we are each Ascending at our own rate. Jesus is our brother and "Graduated early" so to speak.
 Quoting: Scrodiddles


I'm glad to say I agree with your statement. I'll have to use that graduation line... :) It's so true.
Who I AM
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07/28/2011 09:13 PM
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Re: How did Jesus' death wash away our sins?
2 Churches...

Catechism taught:

Jesus, Love, Compassion, Understanding, Non-judgment...




For the ADULTS got taught:

Devil, Hell, Fire, Brimstone, Fear, Mind-control, shame, guilt, etc...




Which did YOU choose...?

Were you even GIVEN a choice?
Anonymous Coward
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07/28/2011 09:13 PM
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Re: How did Jesus' death wash away our sins?
...

Surprisingly, I agree with this statement. I'm glad someone else gets it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1454000


Hahaha. SURPRISINGLY, me too.
 Quoting: Scrodiddles

Well, see what comes of this: [link to projectcamelotproductions.com]

Of this, "Earth History" 1 through 4 are worth downloading and listening to (from 2002, but ever so relevant; prior to the video interviews from above): [link to bitsnoop.com]

You'll need to download through uTorrent or something, the link above. If you have downloading issues, lemme know, I'll download and seed it myself.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1454000


I am actually familiar with this, but not sure if I have seen this specific video set. I will watch it because you were kind enough to share it, but I will also say that I already believe we are each Ascending at our own rate. Jesus is our brother and "Graduated early" so to speak.
 Quoting: Scrodiddles


The scriptures already agree to this same concept. Read plenty of Paul's writings.
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07/28/2011 09:14 PM
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Re: How did Jesus' death wash away our sins?
If you believe at all in the bible, here is the answer:

Adam was perfect, when he sinned in the garden of eden he lost that perfect life, passing on sin to his offspring, also rejecting God's authority to rule humans. God needed another perfect human to balance out what Adam lost, as was foretold in [Genesis 3:14,15].

The nation of Israel needed continual animal sacrifices because no amount of animals can equal a perfect human life. [Hebrews 10:4].

Before Jesus was born on earth, he was Michael, the archangel and first of all creation. [John 8:23]. Jesus was born a perfect human shielded by holy spirit in Mary's womb. [John 11:27] Was on the earth to tell others about God's kingdom [John 18:36] and what that would bring: i.e.: perfection, everlasting life, etc. [John 17:3]. His death paved the way for people to come to an accurate knowledge of God and the bible with the possibility of everlasting life.

He was dead for 3 days, [Luke 24:46] and was around for over a month to continuing teaching his disciples until he was raised to heaven [Hebrews 9:24] to serve as God's vassal king and back to being in his archangel position...ready to fight at [Revelation 19:14, 16] Armageddon and rule 1,000 years. [Isaiah 2:4].

Hope this helps. The added scripture is so you can see I'm quoting the bible.
 Quoting: cdhowlett 1472636


You have just written a total piece of falsehood. the Adam story is not what the bible states. AT ALL. The nation of Israel NEVER NEED SACRIFICES. How silly. Adam was not perfect either anyway. YOu don't know what the Adam's and Eves do, but what they did was introduce the violet DNA before its time, they lost their patience. And the times were terrible and they were depressed anyway. Understand Adam and Ever were here 38,000 years ago on a fully populated planet at that time. They were not the first people. They were a higher people on a particular mission that all evolutionary planets enjoy at some point. All get an "adam and eve", just not the same Adam and Eve.

"God" needed no other perfect human, where do you ones get this stuff. YOU HAVE MINDS which were supplied by GOD to you, could you learn to USE THEM. IF STUFF SOUNDS LIKE FAIRY TALES, Like Satan Claws for example..... it problem is lies and fairy tales.

His death was not required to pave any way, and he did NOT DIE on the CROSS, he lived, rested in the grave and went to teach in India, married, had 5 kids and died about 115 years of age in fact. You ones need to read Phoenix JOurnal #2 on the life of Jesus, written by JUDAS who was his best friend and scribe and NOT the betrayer. Judas was FRAMED by another with a similar name, really the father of the other with the similar name. Juda Iharioth.

Download this book mostly by Judas. [link to tweeofmeer.webs.com]

Esu (Jesus ) HAS returned, way back in 1954. Judas went to India with him, and after the death of 'jesus" the scrolls Judas wrote were returned to the old grave, and sources above led an priest of this world to them. Some were not readable, but the story is fascinating. Please avail yourself of this knowledge.

Jesus the part that was MICHAEL, was not AA MIchael. That incarnation 2000 years ago, was SHARED by MIchael of Nebadon, who cannot use a human body, being a very HIGH spirit being, so he more or less hitched a ride with Esu Immanuel. Both were Jesus. Michael of Nebadon is the creator of our Universe of Nebadon, which is NOT the whole creation, but a sector OF IT.

He is also returned as I post all the time. SIN IS NOT PASSED to offspring people. The unto the 7th generation means mans errors are reproduced by his offspring because of shitty knowledge and that is a MAJOR problem in religion right now, the lies and misunderstandings passed to the next generation. You ones are also passing all the pollution to the next generation too, you know.

His death was not necessary for the passing of knowledge.
Also he was NOT born of the "holy spirit." for some that believe that. The body is composed of DNA from MALE and FEMALE and the Holy spirit, has no penis or DNA. The Gabriel of Nebadon supplied the Male DNA, but not by sex, by laboratory methods.

Please folks, I work so hard hear, could some of you make use of it? This is not the only planet, it has had humans on it since the time of the dinosaurs, by method of migration from other planets.

Adam and Eve's are special folks from heaven, who, when the natural evolution of the race is as high as it can go, they come to upgrade the DNA. They do this by having many children. Adam and Eve are the violet race. There many children, having perfect DNA can intermarry and do, until for a planet like this there are 500,000 or more pure line descendants. They these are allowed to marry the best of the evolutionary races. This DNA they carry, is at least 24 strand DNA and produces a psychic brain and body.

That mission failed because EVE was convinced by Caligastia, our planetary prince who was part of the Lucifer rebellion, to have sex with an advanced member of the race and interject the violet DNA too early. Since he was planetary prince, but a nut case, she believed him and did it. Adam in his love went and did the same thing , knowing they had blown their mission. To stay with her.

Now this one thing might have been forgiven, (and was later), but you see this is a fucked up mucked up world, and it's leaders from heaven were corrupt and Caligastia purposely wanted to destroy the works of uplifting this race and would have continually caused a multitude of problems so the whole mission was aborted. Adam and eve each lived to over 300 years of age. They were forced from the first garden of eden because of WAR. That is under the eastern Mediterranean now, and the 2nd garden to which they migrated was in Iraq between the Euphrates and that other river, not getting out my map.

ADam and Eve are world leaders when they come, (not the same as the Prince. you see the Prince of this world mentioned in your bible, that was caligastia.)

They show a new way, build a global university system and have advisory councils from "heaven" which none of you have a clue about.

Had the Lucifer rebellion not occurred, that planet would long be in Light and Life now. the rebellion was 200,000 years ago and it's recorded somewhat in Revelations, and some of you think the stars of heaven are still to fall and that already happened long ago.

Michael of Nebadon visited this planet on purpose for many many reasons that go way beyond the teaching mission of Jesus. It has much to do with the resolution of the galactic wars and the anunnaki et all. Major clean up job going on, OK. A whole lot of POLITICAL reasons so to speak.

You ones, to improve upon yourselves, need to STOP this religious CRAP folks, you are a tool of the "satan" you still believe in. Satan isn't here nor is lucifer, but this is a prison world for 10 billion fallen angels and galactic thugs working out their karma. Many of you may well be them. Stop following this silly stuff and grow UP.

Develop your meditation abilities so you can communicate with the FATHER THAT IS INSIDE OF YOU. In that is all truth available to you. Your Father Fragment can communicate with the SPIRIT OF TRUTH bestowed on Pentecost by MIchael of Nebadon, who left the double incarnation at the time of the cross. He LEFT. IT was HE who was seen by the Mary's etc. ESU survived and continued to use the body the shared, and went to India to teach as above. He was NOT in the grave, because he walked out of it! He did not DIE. And that was however what was desired at the time, so that he could go to India in peace to continue his teaching. I am not faulting you on believing the lie for that reason.

These lowly animal bodies do NOT go to heaven. It is YOUR SOUL that is Resurrected and you are given a new body when you arrive on the mansion worlds after your resurrection.

What about all the people who lived and died before Jesus? There was a resurrection then. And what about all the ones since then? IF they are 3rd Circle of spiritual development, they go straight to heaven and awaken in 3 days in their NEW BODY which does not need toilets, all food is absorbed, no SHIT produced. Why would you want to take these crusty forms to heaven? You want to use toilets for eternity? Put on your minds.

Those not 3rd circle wait for a general resurrection and that is even in progress now with the return and there was one around 1000 AD too. I have met christians who will not undergo cremation because they think this body goes to heaven. How silly. How many bodies are LONG decomposed over the last 1000 years since the last intervening general resurrection? PLEASE.....
:big flowers::Black and White : The returned Esu, NOT in the body of 2000 years ago, that body is buried near Srinagar, Kasmir where he made his home and fathered 5 children. His hair is Sandy brownish red, and those big lovely eyes a deep bluish gray. He stand about 7 feet tall. I have met him personally, therefore I know of what I speak.
 Quoting: Nobody in Particular


Wow, do you write sci-fi or something?

5a
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07/28/2011 09:14 PM
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Re: How did Jesus' death wash away our sins?
I bailed out at age 16 when Catechism ended and I was forced to go to the ADULT fear-based mind control stuff...

Just couldn't relate to it all...

Best Wishes,
Scrodiddles (OP)

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07/28/2011 09:15 PM
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Re: How did Jesus' death wash away our sins?
I am actually being sincere here. I was raised in a Southern Babtist home and have read the bible a fair share of times, but I am at a total loss when it comes to understanding how Jesus dying on the cross translates into me being forgiven for my "sins".

And please don't just post scripture that just states it matter-of-factly as if I should ignore that we live in a world where things have to correlate.

So they torture him, place him on a cross, and then wait for him to die. He passes away, is reborn and then ascends to heaven. Now I get forgiven if I have impatient thoughts? How does that work? Did he die, go to heaven and flip on a breaker switch, resurrect on earth to check if it worked and then just strolled on back to heaven? What happened during his death that made our sins forgivable?

It's like a father bursting through the door and telling his son that cursing is now allowed in the house because he hit a deer on the way home. How in the world is it connected?
 Quoting: Scrodiddles


One thing you must understand...Jesus said He came for the Lost Sheep of Israel who had been blinded and divorced by the Father. The Father being Omnipotent cannot break His own Law BUT He said when He divorced Israel that He would one day re-marry Israel.In His Law of Divorce (which He can not break) Once a woman (israel) has been given a writ of divorce she cannot re-marry until the original Husbandman dies for if she did then she would be an adultress and the one who married her would be an adulterer. Since the Father was the original Husbandman and Israel was the bride He could not re-marry Israel until "The Original Husbandman died " so as not to break His own Perfect Law...Jesus comes to this Earth and is the Father incarnate (original Husbandman) He dies on the cross (original husbandman dies) and then The Father is able to re-marry Israel w/o breaking His Law. SO Jesus died for the sin of Israel so that Israel could be brought back into the Promises and COvenants the the Father had espoused to theit forefathers...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1328433


Thank you. I am aware. I will state again, although I am sure it will continue, writing out the story in question does not answer the question about the story. You are just restating what is in the bible and what is in the bible is what is being examined here. It is what IS NOT in the Bible that I am looking for. And that is an explanation, within God's laws of how things work in our realms, of how Jesus dying on the cross actually resulted in our sins being forgiven. What happened? What transpired at death to cause a change like that? It just seems like a big thing to take without any details being offered to explain the intricate workings of a sacrifice. Non if it makes sense in this world and this world is where it happened. So claiming it is "spiritual" workings is not very helpful. I am quite aware of the nature of spirit and there is a lack of explanation regarding the crucifixion in that context too.
I am in search of Truth, but still emptying my cup.
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Re: How did Jesus' death wash away our sins?
One thing you must understand...Jesus said He came for the Lost Sheep of Israel who had been blinded and divorced by the Father. The Father being Omnipotent cannot break His own Law BUT He said when He divorced Israel that He would one day re-marry Israel.In His Law of Divorce (which He can not break) Once a woman (israel) has been given a writ of divorce she cannot re-marry until the original Husbandman dies for if she did then she would be an adultress and the one who married her would be an adulterer. Since the Father was the original Husbandman and Israel was the bride He could not re-marry Israel until "The Original Husbandman died " so as not to break His own Perfect Law...Jesus comes to this Earth and is the Father incarnate (original Husbandman) He dies on the cross (original husbandman dies) and then The Father is able to re-marry Israel w/o breaking His Law. SO Jesus died for the sin of Israel so that Israel could be brought back into the Promises and COvenants the the Father had espoused to theit forefathers...
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Re: How did Jesus' death wash away our sins?
Accepting the sacrifice of Jesus requires gullibility .
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1475638


Fixed it for ya!
 Quoting: Tyranny of Evil Men


I see your name fits you to a "tea".
Anonymous Coward
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07/28/2011 09:16 PM
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Re: How did Jesus' death wash away our sins?
yawn.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: How did Jesus' death wash away our sins?
I bailed out at age 16 when Catechism ended and I was forced to go to the ADULT fear-based mind control stuff...

Just couldn't relate to it all...

Best Wishes,
 Quoting: Who I AM 1485307


My hubby was the same...as soon as he got confirmation money, he was gone! went somewhere that made more sense.

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