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Is CW Leonis in our Backyard? Elenin/Nibiru researchers... Read this!

 
Practically ET
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Is CW Leonis in our Backyard? Elenin/Nibiru researchers... Read this!
CW LEONIS – Why it may not be what is claimed.

[link to endgametime.wordpress.com]

- - - - - - - - - - - -

Quite a few more inconsistencies when it come to the Famous CW Leonis:


Here's the data on that point found searching CW Leonis:
[link to server5.sky-map.org]


Principal Galaxy Catalog
PGC1427054 is a dim galaxy northwest of Regulus, well-known and cataloged - not CW Leonis, someone has their data wrong on this site

Another CW Leonis representation: IRC +10216
Here is the wiki (120–150 pc):
[link to en.wikipedia.org]

We know it is moving through the Interstellar Medium:
[link to arxiv.org]

1968 observation of IRC +10216: [link to articles.adsabs.harvard.edu] ...
290 parsecs - 945.4 light years away this was the commonly used figure for about 10 years or so

In the 80's most research used a figure of ~200 parsecs
[link to articles.adsabs.harvard.edu]

and this continued into the 90's

This Article from 1999 puts the distance to IRC +10216 at around 200 parsecs or 652 light years:
[link to www.cfa.harvard.edu]

Then in the late 90's to 2000's it was 100-150 parsecs (note, in the transition both new lower and higher older number might be used)

This article from 2000 put it at 130 parsecs - 423 light years:
[link to www.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de]

This article : [link to science.nasa.gov] ...
from 2001 put's CW Leonis at 500 light years away

130 pc - 423
[link to www.asiaa.sinica.edu.tw]

150 parsecs - 1998
[link to www.nasa-academy.org]

In early 2000's lower numbers became the norm for pc distance.

Looking through many papers researching CW Leonis, have noticed that distance numbers have steadily decreased over the last 2 decades from 300 parsecs to closer to 100 parsecs. I don't know how big the shell is on this thing, but if it truly was at 120 parsecs in 2000 and moving 100 parsecs a decade, where would that put it now? At our front door. If you don't believe me, go do a google search on 'distance to IRC +10216'. You also will see the creep towards us.

Last Edited by Practically ET on 08/28/2011 05:51 PM
500 Billion Galaxies in the observable universe. 100 Trillion stars in the Milky way. 50 Million potentially habitable planets in the Milky Way. And you're telling me ETs don't exist?
Practically ET (OP)

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Re: Is CW Leonis in our Backyard? Elenin/Nibiru researchers... Read this!
bump
500 Billion Galaxies in the observable universe. 100 Trillion stars in the Milky way. 50 Million potentially habitable planets in the Milky Way. And you're telling me ETs don't exist?
Practically ET (OP)

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Re: Is CW Leonis in our Backyard? Elenin/Nibiru researchers... Read this!
bump
500 Billion Galaxies in the observable universe. 100 Trillion stars in the Milky way. 50 Million potentially habitable planets in the Milky Way. And you're telling me ETs don't exist?
Practically ET (OP)

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Re: Is CW Leonis in our Backyard? Elenin/Nibiru researchers... Read this!
No one see this as plausible? Just look at the reports to see that CW Leonis has been coming towards us at around 100 parsecs per decade since 1968.

When measured in early 2000s, it was around 120-150 parsecs... Now we go a decade later, that would put it in our backyard?
500 Billion Galaxies in the observable universe. 100 Trillion stars in the Milky way. 50 Million potentially habitable planets in the Milky Way. And you're telling me ETs don't exist?
Ceph

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Re: Is CW Leonis in our Backyard? Elenin/Nibiru researchers... Read this!
Intersting, thanx OP for posting.

bump
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Is CW Leonis in our Backyard? Elenin/Nibiru researchers... Read this!
bump

for discussion
Practically ET (OP)

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Re: Is CW Leonis in our Backyard? Elenin/Nibiru researchers... Read this!
bump
500 Billion Galaxies in the observable universe. 100 Trillion stars in the Milky way. 50 Million potentially habitable planets in the Milky Way. And you're telling me ETs don't exist?
Practically ET (OP)

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Re: Is CW Leonis in our Backyard? Elenin/Nibiru researchers... Read this!
abduct
500 Billion Galaxies in the observable universe. 100 Trillion stars in the Milky way. 50 Million potentially habitable planets in the Milky Way. And you're telling me ETs don't exist?
StarCafe
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07/31/2011 08:23 PM
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Re: Is CW Leonis in our Backyard? Elenin/Nibiru researchers... Read this!
I had this debate with a friend not so long ago about, Science that is accepted as "Correct" when in spite of new "evidence" it's not re adressed,
I said that of all things this would become a problem equal if not surpassing the religion fiasco.
But in spite of humans endevouring for bettering mankinds position in the universe, we still hang on to primitive emotions such a "ego", which helps nothing.
A good scientist, should want to be challenged, as often as possible, becasue the more evidence that his/her methods work, the more credible the science, and science should only stay "Theory" period. We may think that 1 Kilogram is 1 Kilogram, but change gravity, By 0.0000000001% and it's no longer a kilogram. but because we use our measures based on our basic understandings we will always say 1kilo is 1 kilo.

Nothing is stable enough in the grand scheme of things to think that humans with a collective understanding of just a few tens of thousands of years under their belt, can KNOW IT ALL, thats the BS.
We know so little, we have only just found a means to leave the planet and explore the greater reaches of the universe. We have not even explored all the oceans and land on earth. We see google Earth and think yep, seen it all "KNOW IT ALL"

THIS my friend is probably the most important discovery in astronomy for years, and if your correct, you may be part of a little scientific revolution. Except if your right we're gonna be dead before we can put this new understanding to any good use.

OKAY
DEBUNK AWAY.
Practically ET (OP)

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07/31/2011 08:29 PM
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Re: Is CW Leonis in our Backyard? Elenin/Nibiru researchers... Read this!
I had this debate with a friend not so long ago about, Science that is accepted as "Correct" when in spite of new "evidence" it's not re adressed,
I said that of all things this would become a problem equal if not surpassing the religion fiasco.
But in spite of humans endevouring for bettering mankinds position in the universe, we still hang on to primitive emotions such a "ego", which helps nothing.
A good scientist, should want to be challenged, as often as possible, becasue the more evidence that his/her methods work, the more credible the science, and science should only stay "Theory" period. We may think that 1 Kilogram is 1 Kilogram, but change gravity, By 0.0000000001% and it's no longer a kilogram. but because we use our measures based on our basic understandings we will always say 1kilo is 1 kilo.

Nothing is stable enough in the grand scheme of things to think that humans with a collective understanding of just a few tens of thousands of years under their belt, can KNOW IT ALL, thats the BS.
We know so little, we have only just found a means to leave the planet and explore the greater reaches of the universe. We have not even explored all the oceans and land on earth. We see google Earth and think yep, seen it all "KNOW IT ALL"

THIS my friend is probably the most important discovery in astronomy for years, and if your correct, you may be part of a little scientific revolution. Except if your right we're gonna be dead before we can put this new understanding to any good use.

OKAY
DEBUNK AWAY.
 Quoting: StarCafe 1489767


Thank you for the feedback! I am honored to be a seeker of truth in what's potentially the final days on this planet.
500 Billion Galaxies in the observable universe. 100 Trillion stars in the Milky way. 50 Million potentially habitable planets in the Milky Way. And you're telling me ETs don't exist?
Practically ET (OP)

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Re: Is CW Leonis in our Backyard? Elenin/Nibiru researchers... Read this!
bump

For any interested Astronomers
500 Billion Galaxies in the observable universe. 100 Trillion stars in the Milky way. 50 Million potentially habitable planets in the Milky Way. And you're telling me ETs don't exist?
Practically ET (OP)

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07/31/2011 08:47 PM
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Re: Is CW Leonis in our Backyard? Elenin/Nibiru researchers... Read this!
yeahsure
500 Billion Galaxies in the observable universe. 100 Trillion stars in the Milky way. 50 Million potentially habitable planets in the Milky Way. And you're telling me ETs don't exist?
BoxerLvr

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Re: Is CW Leonis in our Backyard? Elenin/Nibiru researchers... Read this!
No one see this as plausible? Just look at the reports to see that CW Leonis has been coming towards us at around 100 parsecs per decade since 1968.

When measured in early 2000s, it was around 120-150 parsecs... Now we go a decade later, that would put it in our backyard?
 Quoting: Practically ET




How can it be moving toward us at 100 parsecs per decade. To travel 100 parsecs would take 326 years at the speed of light. Obviously it can't travel nowhere near the speed of light. They have just refined the measurements that's all.
It is precisely because it is fashionable for Americans to know no science, even though they may be well educated otherwise, that they so easily fall prey to nonsense. They thus become part of the armies of the night, the purveyors of nitwittery, the retailers of intellectual junk food, the feeders on mental cardboard, for their ignorance keeps them from distinguishing nectar from sewage. — Isaac Asimov
Practically ET (OP)

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Re: Is CW Leonis in our Backyard? Elenin/Nibiru researchers... Read this!
No one see this as plausible? Just look at the reports to see that CW Leonis has been coming towards us at around 100 parsecs per decade since 1968.

When measured in early 2000s, it was around 120-150 parsecs... Now we go a decade later, that would put it in our backyard?
 Quoting: Practically ET




How can it be moving toward us at 100 parsecs per decade. To travel 100 parsecs would take 326 years at the speed of light. Obviously it can't travel nowhere near the speed of light. They have just refined the measurements that's all.
 Quoting: BoxerLvr


Adjusted measurements of 200 parsecs? Seems a bit extreme don't you think? I provided proof showing it's moving through the Interstellar Medium.

Seeing that the distance has decreased 200 pc over the past few decades, and we know the object is moving... Couldn't one conclude the object is moving in our direction?
500 Billion Galaxies in the observable universe. 100 Trillion stars in the Milky way. 50 Million potentially habitable planets in the Milky Way. And you're telling me ETs don't exist?
StarCafe
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07/31/2011 08:58 PM
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Re: Is CW Leonis in our Backyard? Elenin/Nibiru researchers... Read this!
All good, I just hope we all take the time to consider your OP, But the unfortunate truth is that ignorance to these things is so much easier than Opening your eyes to it.

Because people only see the doom and gloom, not the re-birth, re-invention, re-understanding of humans and there position in the cosmos.

Whether your religious or scientific, both the bible "as a guide" and science can provide solutions for our species to go foward, and prepare or avoid human pitfalls, and in the interest of survival of the species, the sooner we can safely get on and off this rock we're on the better chances our kids and generation to come can say, well, earth was good while it lasted, but the universe has made way for something bigger and better.

And in a future were we can look back on these times and be honest and realise "at this very point in time we are just as simple as a single celled organism in the primordial soup of life, in our current relative past, compared to who and what we humans could one day possible become.

Thats if our ignornance and ego doesn't have us killed first.
Practically ET (OP)

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07/31/2011 09:07 PM
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Re: Is CW Leonis in our Backyard? Elenin/Nibiru researchers... Read this!
All good, I just hope we all take the time to consider your OP, But the unfortunate truth is that ignorance to these things is so much easier than Opening your eyes to it.

Because people only see the doom and gloom, not the re-birth, re-invention, re-understanding of humans and there position in the cosmos.

Whether your religious or scientific, both the bible "as a guide" and science can provide solutions for our species to go foward, and prepare or avoid human pitfalls, and in the interest of survival of the species, the sooner we can safely get on and off this rock we're on the better chances our kids and generation to come can say, well, earth was good while it lasted, but the universe has made way for something bigger and better.

And in a future were we can look back on these times and be honest and realise "at this very point in time we are just as simple as a single celled organism in the primordial soup of life, in our current relative past, compared to who and what we humans could one day possible become.

Thats if our ignornance and ego doesn't have us killed first.
 Quoting: StarCafe 1489767


Aye. Precisely why we need to take the proper cautions to make sure some of us survive if this is true.

Our friends Uncle Sam are obviously not going to look out for us... Even though we've paid their salaries for centuries.
500 Billion Galaxies in the observable universe. 100 Trillion stars in the Milky way. 50 Million potentially habitable planets in the Milky Way. And you're telling me ETs don't exist?
Natagee
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Re: Is CW Leonis in our Backyard? Elenin/Nibiru researchers... Read this!
If the red shift reading is misunderstood...could be alot closer.
Practically ET (OP)

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07/31/2011 10:08 PM
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Re: Is CW Leonis in our Backyard? Elenin/Nibiru researchers... Read this!
If the red shift reading is misunderstood...could be alot closer.
 Quoting: Natagee 1482384


Aye. If CW Leonis is actually the 'thing' we've been looking for... We're in for a bumpy ride.
500 Billion Galaxies in the observable universe. 100 Trillion stars in the Milky way. 50 Million potentially habitable planets in the Milky Way. And you're telling me ETs don't exist?
Just Me
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07/31/2011 10:11 PM
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Re: Is CW Leonis in our Backyard? Elenin/Nibiru researchers... Read this!
Could be true. I looking into older Popular Science Magazines to see if anything was printed before they could have decided to with hold info.

[link to books.google.com]
Practically ET (OP)

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07/31/2011 10:13 PM
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Re: Is CW Leonis in our Backyard? Elenin/Nibiru researchers... Read this!
Could be true. I looking into older Popular Science Magazines to see if anything was printed before they could have decided to with hold info.

[link to books.google.com]
 Quoting: Just Me 1488849


Good find. Published only a few years after the 1983 IRAS discovery.

Last Edited by Practically ET on 07/31/2011 10:13 PM
500 Billion Galaxies in the observable universe. 100 Trillion stars in the Milky way. 50 Million potentially habitable planets in the Milky Way. And you're telling me ETs don't exist?
Anonymous Coward
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07/31/2011 10:25 PM
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Re: Is CW Leonis in our Backyard? Elenin/Nibiru researchers... Read this!
Betelgeuse in the Constellation Orion


[link to www.news.com.au]


[link to www.youtube.com]
Practically ET (OP)

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07/31/2011 10:27 PM
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Re: Is CW Leonis in our Backyard? Elenin/Nibiru researchers... Read this!
Betelgeuse in the Constellation Orion


[link to www.news.com.au]


[link to www.youtube.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1489728


Betelgeuse is a cover story, IMO.
500 Billion Galaxies in the observable universe. 100 Trillion stars in the Milky way. 50 Million potentially habitable planets in the Milky Way. And you're telling me ETs don't exist?
StarCafe
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08/01/2011 12:32 AM
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Re: Is CW Leonis in our Backyard? Elenin/Nibiru researchers... Read this!
It seems Betelgeuse is just another theroy thats been blown into reality.

It's only been seen contracting, so hypothesised it's about to explode, and if it did, once the light from that explosion gets here there would be trouble.

But really, if the light takes from 180 - 1300 years to get here, the star is "aparently" only 6 - 10 million years, alot of assumptions and calculations have to be made to even assume it's going to blow or is in a natural cyle.

Just in reading the little about it in the past hour or so, there doesn't seem to be much "concrete" information about the star, that for the 8th brightest object in the sky, most of it is assumptions based on botched calculations on mass, magnitude etc.

But I guess most of the "concrete" science has to be based on assumptions(theories). . . . .
Disclosure 2011

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Re: Is CW Leonis in our Backyard? Elenin/Nibiru researchers... Read this!
I know this may sound crazy
but some theorists today have
pretty much implied that the
entire planet is going to be popcorn soon
so which shtf first?

personally, i'm not going to worry about it
at least not today

5a
Kiljaeden

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Re: Is CW Leonis in our Backyard? Elenin/Nibiru researchers... Read this!
SPIN siren2 PISS siren2 SPIT!!
not even hitler can top drowning an entire planet of people.
atheism isn't a religion, it's a personal relationship with reality.
being an atheist, a christian threatening me with hell is like a
hippie threatening to punch me in my aura.
____________
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08/01/2011 03:20 AM
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Re: Is CW Leonis in our Backyard? Elenin/Nibiru researchers... Read this!
bump
DaNose

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08/01/2011 06:28 PM
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Re: Is CW Leonis in our Backyard? Elenin/Nibiru researchers... Read this!
Betelgeuse in the Constellation Orion


[link to www.news.com.au]


[link to www.youtube.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1489728


Betelgeuse is a cover story, IMO.
 Quoting: Practically ET


Why in the world would you think that?

It's not like betelguese is a poor candidate for a supernova is it?
The truth is the truth even if no one believes it and a lie is a lie even if everyone believes it!
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08/01/2011 10:42 PM
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Re: Is CW Leonis in our Backyard? Elenin/Nibiru researchers... Read this!
CW LEONIS – Why it may not be what is claimed.

[link to endgametime.wordpress.com]

- - - - - - - - - - - -

Quite a few more inconsistencies when it come to the Famous CW Leonis:


Here's the data on that point found searching CW Leonis:
[link to server5.sky-map.org]


Principal Galaxy Catalog
PGC1427054 is a dim galaxy northwest of Regulus, well-known and cataloged - not CW Leonis, someone has their data wrong on this site

Another CW Leonis representation: IRC +10216
Here is the wiki (120–150 pc):
[link to en.wikipedia.org]

We know it is moving through the Interstellar Medium:
[link to arxiv.org]
 Quoting: Practically ET


All stars are moving through the interstellar medium.



1968 observation of IRC +10216: [link to articles.adsabs.harvard.edu] ...
290 parsecs - 945.4 light years away this was the commonly used figure for about 10 years or so
 Quoting: Practically ET


While it is good that you provided references you did not read it carefully. In 1968 the distance was determined by using the difference between the integrate flux and the bolometric absolute magnitude. The bolometric absolute magnitude was not well known and a value was used. What is not indicated in the paper is the range of distances obtained when using different bolometric absolute magnitudes. Quoting the text:

Miss Gordon (1968) has shown that the intrinsic luminosities of carbon stars are quite large, ranging up to Mbol = -8 for V CrB, whose spectrum matches IRC+10216 very acceptably on our plates. If one assumes the more modest Mbol = -7 for IRC+10216, and that there is no energy lost to the radiation field in the nebular, then the integrate flux of 1x10^-12 W/cm^2 observed at the Earth leads to a distance of 290 pc and a shell diameter of about 1200 a.u. along the major axis.

So it really is pretty clear what they did.



In the 80's most research used a figure of ~200 parsecs
[link to articles.adsabs.harvard.edu]

and this continued into the 90's

This Article from 1999 puts the distance to IRC +10216 at around 200 parsecs or 652 light years:
[link to www.cfa.harvard.edu]

Then in the late 90's to 2000's it was 100-150 parsecs (note, in the transition both new lower and higher older number might be used)

This article from 2000 put it at 130 parsecs - 423 light years:
[link to www.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de]

This article : [link to science.nasa.gov] ...
from 2001 put's CW Leonis at 500 light years away

130 pc - 423
[link to www.asiaa.sinica.edu.tw]

150 parsecs - 1998
[link to www.nasa-academy.org]

In early 2000's lower numbers became the norm for pc distance.
 Quoting: Practically ET



Again, you have to read the text. Most of the papers are not determining the distance, but using distance determined by others. I found 1650 papers that mention CW Leonis. I have not and will not go through all of them.

First and foremost, unlike the claim made in the wordpress article the distance is not determined by looking at the redshift. The cosmological redshift is swamped by the space motion at that distance.

In a 1978 paper
[link to articles.adsabs.harvard.edu]

The distance is found to be between 108 and 220 pc using a Mbol=-5.75

Here you see the bolometric magnetude is different from the -7 used in 1968. Using that value with the 1968 data will give similar values.

Other determination of distances are more subtle. Using mass loss rates and line profiles a 1997 paper finds a best fit distance of 150 pc
[link to adsabs.harvard.edu]

A detrmination in 1998 estimates the distance to be between 110 – 135 pc based on luminosity obtained from radiative transfer models matched to observations of CO and mass loss rates
[link to adsabs.harvard.edu]

Add one other fact, CW Leonis is a variable star shrouded in an nebula. This complicates the process of distance. Unfortunately, CW Leonis was not observed by Hipparcos so an accurate distance is really not known.


Looking through many papers researching CW Leonis, have noticed that distance numbers have steadily decreased over the last 2 decades from 300 parsecs to closer to 100 parsecs. I don't know how big the shell is on this thing, but if it truly was at 120 parsecs in 2000 and moving 100 parsecs a decade, where would that put it now? At our front door. If you don't believe me, go do a google search on 'distance to IRC +10216'. You also will see the creep towards us.
 Quoting: Practically ET


In one of the refrences you provided it says this:

From the termination-shock standoff distance, we find that IRC+10216 is moving at a speed of about > 91 km/s [1 cm^(-3)/n_(ISM)]^1/2 through the local ISM.
[link to arxiv.org]

So the space velocity is only 91 km/s and not the 100 parsecs per decade you claim.

CW Leonis is a bit of an oddball star. There aren't many like it so distance, based on known properties, is difficult.

The fact of the matter is that the distance has been determined with the best possible evidence at the time. What was not done in 1968 was to state a possible range of distance, that should have been done, rather than giving just one value.

Each subsequent set of observations improves the distance. CW Leonis is nit hurtling toward us at faster than light, we couldn't see it coming if it were.
Halcyon Dayz, FCD
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08/01/2011 11:39 PM

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Re: Is CW Leonis in our Backyard? Elenin/Nibiru researchers... Read this!
In short, measuring the distance of stars is hard.
The greater the distance the harder.

CW Leonis is not hurtling toward us at faster than light, we couldn't see it coming if it were.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 904552

Picard Manoeuvre!
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It rots the mind and blackens the heart.


Hi! My name is Halcyon Dayz and I'm addicted to morans.
J.H.F.C.
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08/21/2011 12:59 AM
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Re: Is CW Leonis in our Backyard? Elenin/Nibiru researchers... Read this!
I'm having a difficult time here.

How could it be that all of this very-difficult-to-read mumbo jumbo could add to the basic understanding of comet elenin and nibiru?

It would take me a week to sift through all of this information, and where would that get me?

I think it would get me a week behind in my study of the elenin and nibiru situation. And after doing all of the reading and analysis, I could end up discovering that it was all TOTAL BULLSHIT!

So even though there may be something well worth knowing, I feel compelled to give the thread an "Absolute BS" rating.

Sorry.

Please be more concise and to the point in the future.

That is all.


yoda
DAGNY

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08/21/2011 01:12 AM
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Re: Is CW Leonis in our Backyard? Elenin/Nibiru researchers... Read this!
I'm having a difficult time here.

How could it be that all of this very-difficult-to-read mumbo jumbo could add to the basic understanding of comet elenin and nibiru?

It would take me a week to sift through all of this information, and where would that get me?

I think it would get me a week behind in my study of the elenin and nibiru situation. And after doing all of the reading and analysis, I could end up discovering that it was all TOTAL BULLSHIT!

So even though there may be something well worth knowing, I feel compelled to give the thread an "Absolute BS" rating.

Sorry.

Please be more concise and to the point in the future.

That is all.


yoda
 Quoting: J.H.F.C. 1437442


[link to endgametime.wordpress.com]

The article just states that CW Leonis may be closer than thought. It sounds like the method they use for measuring distance is in question, kind of like how carbon dating is used, and it has been proved unreliable, but they still use it for lack of a better method.

bump
For an interesting read.

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