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Last minute tips for parents when the SHTF

 
Anonymous Coward
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12/14/2012 06:47 PM
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Re: Last minute tips for parents when the SHTF
My experience

It's been my experience that despite all my best efforts, probably less than 1% will actually do many things as a result of anything I say. While I can communicate in the most persuasive manner than I know how to do, and they'll agree that what I say makes sense, they won't commit to the time and effort and wealth to follow through.

10% will prepare somewhat. They see the value in doing a little since it will help some. They may but more food and put back a little (less than three days worth) of water.

20% will nod and do nothing.

20% will think I'm a kook. The remainder couldn't be bothered to read past the first sentence. They want a summation, or better they'd rather I did the work for them.

For the 1%, I applaud you for listening and then doing your own research and carrying the baton. Basically, you're one in a hundred, and the main reason I bother to write.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1110734


I have shared this thread with my tribe, and I have read through all of it once, and re-read sections to make sure I understand. I have started adapting many preps to account for your wisdom. This is the best prepping resource I have ever found, useful for both scared newbies and learned vets. Please, please keep up the great work.
Anonymous Coward
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12/14/2012 11:30 PM
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Re: Last minute tips for parents when the SHTF
Children will eat alternative meats when hungry, but they will also eat things they're not used to like lamb or deer or rabbit when you act as if it is perfectly normal.

They're conditioned by other children, but in the absence of schools, they'll look to your response.

I can tell you honestly and from experience that I've no trouble feeding many many children alternative meat like lamb when they were conditioned to eating it as if it were the most ordinary meal.

Kids will become very bored without cell phones, the Internet, TV, electronic games, DVDs, etc.

Kids are far more hungry for your attention though, and if you'll find time to play games with them, exercise together,and really talk, that boredom will pass.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1496915


LAMB is an "alternative meat"?!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3756790


For that matter, you consider deer and rabbit to be alternative meats? Where the hell do you live...inside a Wal-Mart?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3756790


Keep reading. I started out very slowly to help people process things. By the time you get to about post 15 or so, I think you'll see I was radically altering some people's thinking. Rome was built in a day, and so I gradually discussed things.

And yes, lamb is not a common meal whatsoever in America. Nor is rabbit or squirrell. These foods are not regularly eaten by chidren in the USA, nor by the parents. But then we're discussing eating wood lice recently (the roly poly bugs that are crustaceans) so that's quite a mind-shift, isn't it?
yeahsure
Anonymous Coward
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12/14/2012 11:32 PM
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Re: Last minute tips for parents when the SHTF
Seriously? If things get that bad why would you want your kids to live in a world like that?

If my daughter was still young (she is 20 now) and we had to "survive" and fight for our lives I would seriously just kill her and then myself. That would be more humane than to subject her to the crazy unknown savages that deem themselves "human".

And I would hope she wouldn't get reincarnated until the world sets itself right again.
 Quoting: ParallaxPam


So, ummm you just admitting that you'd commit murder on an Internet forum....and you want my comments. I'll pass.
Anonymous Coward
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12/14/2012 11:47 PM
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Re: Last minute tips for parents when the SHTF
My experience

It's been my experience that despite all my best efforts, probably less than 1% will actually do many things as a result of anything I say. While I can communicate in the most persuasive manner than I know how to do, and they'll agree that what I say makes sense, they won't commit to the time and effort and wealth to follow through.

10% will prepare somewhat. They see the value in doing a little since it will help some. They may but more food and put back a little (less than three days worth) of water.

20% will nod and do nothing.

20% will think I'm a kook. The remainder couldn't be bothered to read past the first sentence. They want a summation, or better they'd rather I did the work for them.

For the 1%, I applaud you for listening and then doing your own research and carrying the baton. Basically, you're one in a hundred, and the main reason I bother to write.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1110734


I have shared this thread with my tribe, and I have read through all of it once, and re-read sections to make sure I understand. I have started adapting many preps to account for your wisdom. This is the best prepping resource I have ever found, useful for both scared newbies and learned vets. Please, please keep up the great work.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16973948


You're quite welcome. If there's a collapse of any kind in anyone's personal life (unemployment, divorce, death of the main bread winner)or a major catastrophe, and it helped someone to live to fight another day, then it would have been worth it to spend over a thousand hours in a discussion with some people on the Internet.

There's been a method to the madness. There's a lot of information to discuss and if you've read it all, you know that I have methodically discussed diverse topics. It's impossible to discuss the basics of pure water without explaining diseases. Or to understand how to drill a well unless you understand aquifers. Or the effects of erosion, nitrogen fixing bacteria, creating bearms to hold water in an area, the effects of dehydration, annual rainfall, cisterns, blah blah blah.

Most topics are not near this long, and sometimes I had to explain a whole lot through storytelling in order to accomplish some of it.

It's perfectly fine to ask me questions, or even to challenge my assertions in a normal exchange of ideas. People are not as polite as they once were, sad to say. I fully expected to be challenged, but not the lunatic fringe that GLP is famous for. There are minimal trolls here, for I doubt many of them can put together a paragraph, much less pages of material. They look for easier targets.

The most surprising responses are ones where people seem suicidal, or worse would extinguish the precious life of their children. Shocking. A collapse need not be like The Road film. Good gosh it's a movie and an extreme one. It could be relatively benign in some rural places, but with eventual starvation from broken supply chains and any authority. It could be self-limited over the course of two months from civil unrest. There's lots of times disasters range from a one all along a continuum to a ten.

There were desperate times on the frontier or even in tribal life, but generally humanity didn't kill off others merely to survive. The suffering often died of disease, hunger, paralying fear, bad water, malnutrition, ignornance, death of livestock, etc. Occasionally there were acts of violence as tribes clashed or fought over the same resources. That's possible of course.

Because a lot of people don't bother to actually read history or discover the life skills that were common to their ancestors, they're entirely ready to give up completely. It's pathetic, and I won't waste my time trying to persuade or plead with people to do anything.
Anonymous Coward
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12/15/2012 12:16 AM
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Re: Last minute tips for parents when the SHTF
If you are being tracked, then at least be smart about evading



Basic common sense information. Nothing spectacular here, just well explained. Kudos to MainePrepper. Lots of good videos over there.

Most people will think of bugging out and applying this. Actually it's important for lots of situations post-collapse where communication has not been established and you don't know the other person's intentions.

Note: it's common to step on some moss on a rock and scar the pristine covering of it. Or to accidently snap a branch while walking through some alder brush. Your party will avoid making these common mistakes, or unless deliberately leaving those signs and scars (say dirt clods from your boots going in one way in a natural manner) on purpose.
Anonymous Coward
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12/15/2012 08:18 AM
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Re: Last minute tips for parents when the SHTF
An interesting rechargeable battery using common materials

At some point in a collapse, there won't be any batteries that will work anymore. Here's a very low milliamp battery that one could trickle charge back up, and using a joule thief power up very low milliamp devices for brief periods, then recharge it. It's sort of a niche battery, something that you might be interested in if an experimenter.

It won't last long as it consumes the "stainless steel" scrubber. Truthfully, it is partially stainless steel as stainless doesn't rust.

It would be interesting to follow his channel. It seems to be a quasi-iron/air battery.

One wonders what would happen if pure nickel was used as the metal.



I know, a lot of people are saying, "So what?". Well, running a solar rechargeable LED lantern is a big deal and very helpful. The problem is the rechargeable battery eventually goes bad. If we can make something that would work at night for limited use, then it's a real big deal. We also need rechargeable batteries for things like small mp3 players as that's the most likely candidate for music post-collapse. As the rechargeable battery located inside will eventually go bad, we have to replace it.

Sure, it won't run anything significant. For that you need a serious battery or a big battery bank.
Anonymous Coward
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12/15/2012 08:21 AM
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Re: Last minute tips for parents when the SHTF
Here's the rechargeable battery powering up a tiny motor and LEDs using a joule thief.
Anonymous Coward
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12/15/2012 08:26 AM
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Re: Last minute tips for parents when the SHTF
Here's a Lead Acid battery that's been brought back to life by adding Epsom salts. It's a possible way we could extend the life of our batteries post-collapse. You'd recharge them using a solar trickle charger.

Anonymous Coward
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12/15/2012 10:55 AM
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Re: Last minute tips for parents when the SHTF
Better Than Bouillon Soup Base

Better Than Bouillon soup base is one method for making goof-proof soup or stew. The 16 oz size goes for about $6 and there's 38 servings in it. It's one of those preps that are really helpful since it produces a consistently good meal and has a decent shelf life. It seems like they discontinuing it, so you might want to stock up on it.

Commercial kitchens use something similar, and you should too. I've made a lot of chicken noodle soup this way and fresh bread and everyone seems to like it.

When a collapse comes, you'll want soup base to hide "unusual flavors", and so having this is very handy. There's other's varieties, why not add this to your essential prep items? You'll thank me later.
Anonymous Coward
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12/16/2012 02:30 PM
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Re: Last minute tips for parents when the SHTF
Making your own energy/survival bars

Here's some links to a general recipe for a survival bar. It has ~2000 calories, enough to sustain your for a day for about $3.50, and it's good unless you have expended a lot of energy through heavy labor. If you're doing that, you need fat calories, so I've also included another link which has suggested additives to boost the calories and nutrition.
[link to blog.emergencyoutdoors.com]

[link to www.prevention.com]

Since cooking protein powder alters the taste and denatures the protein (it still has valuable protein) I've included a link on baked soy beans. They're something you could put into the survival bar.
[link to www.livestrong.com]

You'll be growing soybeans for sure at some point post-collapse.

Now this will keep as long as you carefully pack it away from air. Air is always the enemy of baked goods. But if you take a lesson from panfortte and from fruitcake makers, you'll drizzle rum(after baking or else you'll destroy the ethanol preservative) or something similar on the survival bar and that way it will last longer.

You can purchase ready made survival bars, but I think this is well worth the effort to make something far more delicious and specialize the ingredients according to your personal preferences.
Anonymous Coward
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12/16/2012 02:43 PM
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Re: Last minute tips for parents when the SHTF
Into the West a six part mini-series

I'm re-watching Into the West. It came out seven years ago, and I watched it for the first time back then. I was impressed by it the first time, but even more so now that I'm older. I'm carefully watching all of the little skills that the tribal people of the Lakota used as well as the people of the frontier used to cope as well.

We'll become tribes again when a collapse happens, and I hope that we can maintain the peace in spite of that.

There's a lot of important lessons about the difficulty of living on the prairie. Many people died of various causes, but often they died as the result of their choices. If you have some time, why not look it up? I'm sure you can find it in your public library as well by alternative means.

Here's a clip.
Anonymous Coward
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12/17/2012 06:23 AM
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Re: Last minute tips for parents when the SHTF
Uses for a survival biscuit

While the price of a survival bar is reasonable, there are certainly cheaper meals for a day. Beans and rice are extremely economical, but they require a lot of water to rehydrate, a lot of time to prepare, the water to be drained and then as much water or more added to cook it, and then a lot of fuel to be burned over a lot of time to finally eat this much cheaper meal.

There's similar meals, all with similar problems. One could avoid much of that by eating an MRE, for they need no such heating. That's what a survival biscuit is for too...you don't have to prepare it, though of course, I would recommend a large cup of hot pine needle tea or similiar as it's difficult to mix in something that has vitamin C into the bar.

There will be many time when doing a night watch that a fire may not be allowed, or eating on the run, or not knowing if you'll have available fuel, or minimizing how much you carry. These are the times that you use a survival bar.

It's not a cookie, though of course it could be one. That's why I included a list of ingredients to make it better tasting and even to make it a sweet treat.
Anonymous Coward
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12/17/2012 06:37 AM
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Re: Last minute tips for parents when the SHTF
Telling people you are a prepper is unwise

When outsiders hear the word prepper, it conjures up emotional images. If one is not aware of the many issues in the world, and one isn't concerned, then noticing that someone is preparing causes different emotional responses.

One response can be revulsion. They see some media portrayal of odd cartoonish characters within a docudrama, and then they associate their bizarre behavior and beliefs with all preppers.

Another response could be humor. The idea that humanity is at risk is so strange to them, that they assume that anyone who is preparing is odd, and hence laughable. This undermines any authority that you may have with them.

One way that people could react would be to alert people to avoid preppers since there have been unusual people in the news with emotional issues, and so since they assume that your behavior is "off and abnormal" then you are a potential threat.

Some will think you're an antique. Learning life skills that people used to do, well to them it's like being a historical reenactor of the Revolutionary or Civil War. It's an unusual interest, one that can cause any of these responses listed on the page.

Some might treat you with apathy. They don't really care about anything, for nothing holds any importance to them. The fact that you have passion seems unusual to them, and they tend to associate that with fervor. Since that's alien to their own belief systems, then you might be considered a threat.

Then it turns into an acrimonious or even a belligerant response.

You can avoid all of that by being quiet about your beliefs. In truth, most people will not prepare despite all of your best efforts. Most of us are not persuasive, not unless gifted in such a way, or if we are salespeople who use the skills of persuasion on a daily basis.

If you've read recent responses, then you know that at best, a 1/3 will like you, a 1/3 won't care, and perhaps a 1/3 will despise you.

Being mentally balanced and preparing for a personal disaster or a weather related phenomena is sound. Preparing for the end of the world is not considered "sound" and so, there's seldom any method of spreading that idea that will create a situation of acceptance.

Now with recent events, coupled with end time prophesy, more and more odd things may occur. Stay focused on spirituality if that is a part of you. Hone your skills like your ancestors did. Get a reasonable amount of supplies that you will use in a year. Buy seed because you need and grow things.

Sharing your concern.....well it's very seldom that one can persuade another to prepare. What's more likely is to meet other people who also have discerned that they need to prepare.

The fact that it's gone mainstream, and that there are so many of us, and that even the intelligensia are preparing, or the wealthy, should alert you that it is just common sense.
Anonymous Coward
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12/17/2012 07:15 AM
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Re: Last minute tips for parents when the SHTF
Preparedness is largely about being a peacemaker

While most preppers have tools that include firearms and rifles, they're mostly there for home defense and hunting. Knives are also essential tools that any tribal person has used for multiple reasons. Unless you're a fanatical person, then most preppers and homesteaders are peaceful people. Despite the fact that many have served or are serving in law enforcement or in the military, most are very peaceful.

Why? The life skills of our ancestors are life-affirming ones that are about living in harmony with the Earth and with each other. Each of us has some kind of skill, and by working together as a tribe, humanity discovered that our mutual need for one another could only happen when there were ways of dealing with conflict resolution. A tribe that has a lot of conflict will split asunder. At best, even ones with some conflict will mean that others leave for more peaceful places.

This happened in history based upon the diversity of the tribe. If people were too different, then that often left and began their own tribes. This self-propagation like the runners from strawberry plants is a natural way of dispersal and tends to decentralize humanity.

Centralized humanity becomes civilization, and if you've been reading my thoughts on that over the last year a half, then you know that I believe that most civilization results in dehumanizing people. It causes the creation of technicians and lower members of society that services technicians and leadership, however that manifests. It most often results in a “me versus them” attitude where one kind of skill becomes elevated and others are considered lesser. That means that it is the basis for a lot of conflict between people.

If in your preparedness, you find that you are generating conflict, you might ask yourself if that is the way of Nature and the Source. I don't believe that it is. In Nature, which is the domain of the Source, the species that causes conflict displaces the other species and disrupts the natural harmony of the niche in which they all thrive. If you've read previous postings, I've discussed how linked one species is with another.

Say your livelihood is based upon the perpetual existence of a certain kind of tree. You cut down that tree and harvest the wood so that lumber and wood products can be created. If you don't plant more of the tree than you harvest, and tend to the region, then you also disrupt the species that co-exist in the niche of those trees. They will move on to other parts of the forest and perhaps cause a chain reaction of displacement of species in that new region. If you overharvest, and take more of the trees than you plant (or not plant them at all), then you use up the species and damage your own ability to thrive.

Think upon the buffalo (Tatanka) on the great plains of the USA. While it is certainly true that other tribes and civilization encroached upon the species into extinction, it's also true that many of the First People took too many of them and lowered their numbers too much. If there had been wisdom and more skills, then an equal amount of effort should have been to provide for their species such that they continued to thrive. Because most of humanity are selfish and unthinking, the humans in the areas suffered from the loss of the buffalo as well as the creatures themselves.

This same analogy works for all species, both plant and animal. We are inextricably linked to all of life.

In the history of humanity, tribes or civilizations that caused conflict that resulted in violence and war most often caused high taxes on the people, loss of life on both sides, loss of resources and supplies, poor management of resources into the ways of war, and usually provided a nil amount of benefit.

While there were artificial economic advantages in WW2 that removed the USA from the Great Depression, the ultimate cost was a situation of arming other civilizations with weapons of mass destruction and ruining the security of all.

Don't begin to think like those you disagree with. Don't accept violence as a solution. Be pragmatic and be a peacemaker such that your tribe can benefit and thrive.

You don't have to equivocate with those you disagree with. Conflict resolution is about finding a peaceful exchange of verbal and nonverbal methods to create more harmony. Agreeing to disagree is the beginning of transforming both parties.

In all of the ruckus of the latest events, parties of various belief systems will point fingers and label people with all kinds of terrible things and create conflict and it's a pointless exercise in futility. At a time when most of us think conflict is coming in the form of a large scale disaster, perhaps an economic one, then why waste your time generating more conflict?

People think that conflict is something you send out from your Self. In truth, conflict behavior generates physiological changes in the human body. It first causes adrenalin to be released and then if sustained over time, it releases cortisol. It causes the destruction of the Temple of the Source in truth, for our bodies can be the Temple of the Holy Spirit. What you imagine is outward expression of conflict is in truth damaging the very foundations of your Self.

It is why that the Enemy of Humanity loves conflict. The Despiser brings about the annihilation of Humanity by generating conflict on both sides. Perceive that instead.
Anonymous Coward
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12/17/2012 07:37 AM
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Re: Last minute tips for parents when the SHTF
The Enemy of Humanity

I've seldom discussed what I think about evil here. It might certainly be different that what you think.

Bear with me. Here's an humourous interpretation of what I think is the nature of true evil.


Whatever evil is, I think that whatever we do that creates conflict adds to its power. As such, most of the actions chosen to react to what we label evil will result in a gradual increase in its power.

The flipside is that the more we generate friendship, love in all its forms, belief in the Source of Life, harmony, growth, respect negates the power of Evil and the Despiser.
Anonymous Coward
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12/17/2012 08:10 AM
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Re: Last minute tips for parents when the SHTF
Don't be afraid, the One in Three is coming

He came once before. He will come again.

His ways are not our ways.

Though we are children of the Source, we have lost our way.

Many have forgotten the reason that we celebrate the birth of the One.

If you still remember the One, then read the Word. There you will find the Way of the Source.

When He comes again, who knows when or why or how or what may happen.

We think we know, but we perceive as in a mirror dimly. But then we shall see the One face to face.
Anonymous Coward
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12/18/2012 06:20 AM
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Re: Last minute tips for parents when the SHTF
Where to be living when the SHTF?

Since there's a recent topic with this heading, let's talk about the subject.

First, one must know how to live and not to merely exist. To exist means to take up space, consume calories, perform basic tasks, and simply be. It is a shadow experience, isn't it? It is not any different than what prisoners do while incarcerated. The fact that most people are slaves and live within civilization systems that enslave them is lost on most people. They haven't contemplated the fact that they are only existing and prisoners of a system that enslaves them.

To live means to embrace life fully with romance and friendships and perform meaningful labor that creates newness, brings about joy and renewal, art, craft, grows living things, energizes the person and their kin. It is the natural way, but because we have become lost, we don't live. Instead we choose to exist and find shiny toys and diversions to subtract from the ache we feel because we are slaves.

It is hard to fathom, but most of us chose to be slaves because to risk living is frightening for most.

In order to best live, we need to be in places that allow us to have the aspects which allow for life to unfold. That means there must be some plants and animals that we can care for and harvest from. For that to happen, we need meadows and forests so they may live as well. The alternative is to be a part of the shadow existence of grocery stores.

Don't get me wrong. Thank goodness we have supply chains and grocery stores. Not everyone can be a farmer, and a farmer needs to be able to sell their produce and meat and milk and eggs. But still, for optimal security and for the possibility of growing things, one must life in some place that has the land to support it.

Since all living things need good soil, warm climate, and water, then if you wish to live life to the fullest, you need a place that has those things. While many people have proposed that one land is better than another, unless the land they suggest has those basic things, then it isn't a good place to live, only a place where one can exist.

This means a wise person looks at growing season, the quality of water from aquifers and rainfall, the characteristics of the soil in their region and ability to either strength it or add to it slowly to improve it. They look for ways to length the growing season by learning new methods, and they also plant crops that will thrive in there unique region, and they companion plant so plants that enjoy each other's company synergistically facilitate each other's growth. They succession plant to get better yields, but then are careful to till under, let soil rest, add soil amenities, use Hugelkulture, etc to make the soil get stronger and stronger.

If they don't have the skills of growing new things, then they develop vital skills for a tribe in that region. Then they can trade their skills for goods and services. Despite not knowing the agrarian skills, they still must learn them, otherwise they will be entirely dependent upon those who can. Likewise, if their skill is in healing, they cannot be everywhere at once, and so for the tribe to best prosper, all tribal members must care for their nutrition, exercise, drink good water, be disciplined, and learn basic health practices.

When these things happen, then the area naturally becomes vibrant and diverse. While there are always some mentally ill people who are sociopaths, many who are that way if raised in healthy loving environments will not choose to act out in the same manner. When there is more true wealth in land and home ownership, a good depth of knowledge and wisdom, a connectedness to the Earth and to the Source, and to all of the things listed above, then there will be lower crime and abuse of the weaker members of the tribe.

In all areas of the world, tribal people adapted and once lived on your land. If not, if you cannot find any history of a tribal people dwelling there, you should WORRY. That means that the only reason you can live there now is because of technology. That means should something happen to disturb that technological advance, then the area would be a wasteland.

While tribal people lived in much of the USA, they didn't live in high numbers. Their numbers were limited by the carrying capacity of the land. For those who haven't been reading all along, the carrying capacity is the ability of the Land to produce species to support Humanity, but in wisdom Humanity will assist Nature as much as possible such that species are not harvested in such amounts as to produce extinction.

By looking at those qualities above, one can ascertain by using the advice of mentors and learned Old Ones plus using your own ability to contemplate, one can decide for themselves which areas of a nation are better for living not existing. In almost every case, for the highest quality of life, if one chooses to live in a rural area, you have a better chance of living.

Some people have a strong need for culture. Since that's often found in the capitols of states, or found in highly urban areas, being able to routinely visit several times a year will give people that opportunity. However living among them on a regular basis will probably pollute the true ways of life and will draw people into a shadow existence. Only you can weigh what is more important to you.

If one were to make a decision today based upon things like the on-going Great Drought in the USA, looked at the rainfall and growing season, looked at soil fertility, climate, crime, population density, healthiness of the population, etc then you could make a reasonable decision.

Hint, it's not West of the Mississippi River(for the most part) in my opinion. Some parts of Idaho or Montana have many of these qualities, but the annual rainfall and aquifer levels worries me for growing things. The winters can be severe, and unless you follow my advice below, then I think you'll have a tough way to go living there.

An additional consideration is the ability to comfortably live in the absence of electricity and natural gas for heat. Even though one can heat with kerosene and with coal, you can't count on those things in a collapse. The wisest way to live is underground in an Earth house. Some people have trouble with mold, and so those folks can't live that way very easily.
[link to en.wikipedia.org]

Living in a Hobbit hole underground but still having natural light, means that the Earth will naturally warm your dwelling to about ~55 deg F (12.7 deg C). This means minimal heating with a rocket mass stove which will require either burning dried cow manure or wood. This means the very best rural land that will support either of those two fuels.

There have been many studies on how much land one family needs to be self-sufficient, and in almost every case, the magic number is 3 acres. Less than this, and it's very tough to raise sufficient food without intense agriculture by alternative means...probably hydroponics, greenhouses, and aquaculture (raising tilapia and or freshwater shrimp). Regardless, if you want regular milk, eggs, and meat, then probably you are raising goats, chickens, and rabbits. If you want regular sweetener since you know from reading this topic the importance of glycogen and blood sugar levels, then you are raising sorghum, corn (partially harvesting syrup), sugar beets, and raising bees. Raising bees will ensure good pollination and a source of honey and honeycomb for wax. Your land has it's own well water and some forest and meadow for crops.

Most likely this means ten acres of land to manage. You'll need that extra land to raise grain crops, manage your forested region carefully to allow wild game to settle there, have a pond for raising fish or at least a pole barn covering an aquaculture project, fruit and nut trees, and some room to spread out for recreation.

I know that seems like a lot, but it is a reasonable figure for living not existing. To have all of those things, probably means living South of the Mason Dixon line (the Southern border of Pennsylvania).

Since much of the urban regions are problematic, that excludes much of what is left on the Northern coast of the USA. It excludes other parts of the area I have drawn up as well.
Anonymous Coward
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12/18/2012 06:32 AM
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Re: Last minute tips for parents when the SHTF
My prediction: Powerful Air Rifles are a good investment

I personally think it's only a matter of time time before guns will be restricted. As such, the Benjamin Rogue .357 air rifle will be a means of coping for hunting, or even home defense.


6 bullets in the magazine 800fps.
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12/20/2012 06:33 AM
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Re: Last minute tips for parents when the SHTF
It's beginning...the slippery slope of preppers and survivalists coping with post-collapse

I've seen a gradual change in the people who make up the prepper, survivalists, and homestead movement. Usually it's coming from the survivalists, who are wound up pretty tight about security, but not so much interested in the homesteading aspects of coping. Since much of their ethos is based upon a perceived danger, they naturally are looking at offensive and defensive means of protecting themselves and their family. However lately as more and more people are added to the community that makes up those preparing, naturally more and more people are concerned and fearful. It's begun to infect people.

Don't get me wrong, home defense and hunting are vital aspects of preparedness. Looking back in history, those in tribes or on the frontier, wherever that may be, understood that they were largely responsible for their own welfare. Even what little law enforcement or soldiers existed back then, they were there to respond after an attack on a family, and then would make retribution. That meant that they had to protect themselves from other tribes, but usually from solitary bands of robbers or intruders seeking some form of wealth or revenge. This meant having weapons and ammunition, be that guns and bullets or bows and arrows.

The problem is that the system is collapsing, and people are aware of it, and so as things degrade, security becomes the first response. This is why you're seeing a lot of people purchasing guns and applying for licenses of all kinds including concealed carry. With so many people in the system purchasing them, it's inevitable that some people will abuse them. A license is only a means of regulating ownership of some kind, and truly is intended as a means of taxation. It never means that the person who owns whatever is moral and good.

Because so many are wound up, preppers are also wound up. They most fear that whatever little piece of Heaven they have cultivated for themselves, whatever security for their future they have built up, will be taken by urban folk fleeing the cities.

Heretofore preppers were a small community and kept to themselves. They didn't talk about ways of coping. They were often ex-military or law enforcement, and so they understood things like tactics and strategy, but prayed that the day never would come to use them. What they hoped for was time to prepare by learning skills, gathering supplies, and seed and making a calm life for their family.

Now because of social media, and commercial interest by media centers wanting to bolster their declining demographics of television and movies, there's a lot of attention on preppers, and the few that willing to go on television or broadcast on youtube, or be portrayed in film.... tend to be extreme. There are many quality people who are devoted to teaching skills, but there are also truly bad people who are spreading hate and discord. It's the double-edged sword of the Internet, akin to all human phenomena.

I've included many videos here to allow people a chance to learn themselves, and usually I agree with what they say, but there's always going to be a video that is questionable, or LOTS of videos that I don't include that I outright disagree with.

Because a lot of people are sociopaths, criminals, mentally ill, etc, we have a lot of people like that discussing ways to cope that are abhorrent to the majority of people. What's also true is the majority of people haven't prepared, and most unprepared people based upon social experiments done in the military will steal and even hurt others to get food when starving.

What to do? I think the balanced approach is to talk about healthy ways of preparing and being a community leader should disaster strike. Since most disasters are self-limited by weather phenomena, then they have a duration of less than a month, and so coming together as a community is a vital necessity. If some people understand how to prepared and how to organize, then they can facilitate change and help the whole community to survive as best they can.

This means learning skills like: first aid, water purification, sanitation, insulation, nutrition, and safety. Long term it means: gardening and farming, animal husbandry, herbal use, carpentry, electrical work, mechanical repair and construction, MacGuyvering, sewing, crafting, art, tool-making, etc.

I have deliberately spent little time on home defense or guns because I see the most potential to abuse the knowledge.

Humanity is a violent species like most apex predators in an ecosystem. If you look at our entertainment, the masses like violence. I don't think it's worse than it used to be, I think it's just accepted more than it used to be. Most people in history wanted a quiet life.

The Quiet Life
by Alexander Pope
Happy the man whose wish and care
A few paternal acres bound,
Content to breathe his native air
In his own ground.

Whose herds with milk, whose fields with bread,
Whose flocks supply him with attire;
Whose trees in summer yield him shade,
In winter... fire.

Blest who can unconcern'dly find
Hours, days, and years slide soft away
In health of body, peace of mind,
Quiet by day,

Sound sleep by night; study and ease
Together mixt, sweet recreation,
And innocence, which most does please
With meditation.

Thus let me live, unseen, unknown;
Thus unlamented let me die;
Steal from the world, and not a stone
Tell where I lie.

But since we like to live vicariously by watching some cathartic tv show or film, and time is limited, we are inundated within a 1-2 hour time span with numerous violent acts because they allow us a release of pent-up emotion. That worries me.

Many people will think that violence will solve problems should there be a collapse. In truth, it's not like in the media, but rather both sides suffer horrible losses when violence is the solution to their problems.

If you've been reading since the start, you know that I hope that people stay put and NOT bug out when a collapse comes. It's dangerous to bug out. You're almost always better off staying put. Your supplies are there, you know the terrain, weather patterns, places to source items, etc. Deliberately becoming homeless is a bad solution that will probably doom your survival.

If a hundred people swamp a farm family, they don't have the resources to feed them. They don't even if they prepped for a year.

Because some bugging out folks are in the city, but have a rural location they're heading for, if they cut across land owned by another, then there's a good chance something terrible will happen. Now is the time to know your neighbors, cultivate a friendship with them, and so when a collapse comes, they'll know you and trust you.

Listen. Don't cut across someone's land to get to safety. It's a bad idea. They won't be mind-readers and won't know your intentions.

I wish that people would calm down and spend more time learning about growing species and helping them to thrive, then probably needlessly worrying about danger. The goal is not survival, but to live life to the fullest.
Anonymous Coward
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12/20/2012 07:33 AM
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Re: Last minute tips for parents when the SHTF
Some of us are “Sensitives” and the implications of that phenomena

Have you ever seen a sensitive plant? It's an unusual species that responds to touch. It will fold up when the slightest pressure is applied to it's leaves. Similarly a plant called a Venus flytrap or a Sundew plant are carnivorous plant species that are tactilely stimulated by the movement of insects, and so in response they fold up and catch their prey.

All of us are sensitive in some degree to outside and inside stimuli. Some of us are aware of our own heart beats or pulse. Others can hear more acutely the song of a bird outside. Others can smell faint aromas in the air or in ingredients, and so that helps in cooking. Some can gently squeeze a trigger in a consistent calm manner and can reproduce high accuracy when shooting a gun or a bow. Some of us are sensitive to a partner's movements, and so they can learn to dance well, make love better, or fight well in the martial arts because they anticipate the Other's movements. Some can see far off, and so they make excellent marksmen or fighter pilots.

Others however feel something beyond the six senses. They may say, “I have a hunch about something.” They might anticipate something happening whether by very disparate clues or by unseen forces. I call such people “Sensitives”.

Now, did you know that if someone is more sensitive than others, there's a higher chance of being disturbed by some phenomena? If someone has asthma or allergies, it might be partially due to them being sensitive to the pollens in the air, and so their body's sense of that triggers the histamines located in their tissues.

Many people have a higher sensitivity to pain. While lots of people experience degeneration in their spinal discs, only a portion of those experience pain in a high amount. Odd, isn't it? While it's possible that it is because of nerve formation or proximity to the degeneration, it's also likely that their pain response is due to a higher awareness of a disturbance.

Our bodies can see along a tiny spectrum of visible light between infrared and ultraviolet, and yet our bodies are surrounded with tremendously broad wavelengths of the electromagnetic spectrum. It's very possible that some of us can sense a change in the normal spectrum around us, and that this sensation of change is the phenomena of ESP.

Think about it. We are not separate beings isolated, but actually living within a sea of the atmosphere. Each change creates a cascade, and in some cases, some of that change is noticed by us. It is as if we felt a breeze upon our skin.

As shaman-in-training, I want you to practice extending your awareness of the Source and of Nature. The ideal time to do that is outside when away from all that is artificial, and in harmony with the other species in your ecosystem. Think of it as a means by which you can communicate more fully with God. Isn't that why many of us close out eyes when talking to God or Jesus or the Holy Spirit? We shut out the external stimuli so we can sense that which is unchanging and constant, what I call the Source.

While some are naturally gifted with being Sensitives, others are sensitive, and can hone their skill. They will locate the fish easier when fishing. They will locate the healing herb faster when it is needed. They will collect more fruit or nuts by intuition. They will track better because they anticipate their brother or sister creature. They will intuit an injury or illness in almost a mystical way of discernment.

Because all of us are sensitive at some time in our lives, and more aware of phenomena, then things bother or disturb us more. It's important to respond to the disturbance and not react.

When responding, note how you feel, and try to stop for a moment and consider your response. Think about how your response will cause a cascade of reactions to others.

Being a sensitive is a double-edged sword too. Sometimes it would be easier not to know, but knowing in advance of some change will allow us to hopefully respond in a better healthier manner of coping.
old guard

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12/20/2012 08:23 AM
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Re: Last minute tips for parents when the SHTF
hf
Anonymous Coward
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12/22/2012 08:01 AM
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Re: Last minute tips for parents when the SHTF
What if the Mayan End of the Age came and you simply didn't notice?

There's a lot of disappointed people today. They feel foolish...foolish for preparing...foolish for being afraid...foolish for listening to others...foolish for suspending disbelief.

What if the end of the age came while you were sleeping? What if now began a new time when you were reborn into who you should have been all along?

It would certainly be tragic if such an event came and went, and yet you spent your time filled with self-doubt.

The reality is each day is a new chance to begin anew. It's why there is great wisdom to not going to sleep on your anger, but making peace before going to bed. If one does that, then you can cultivate harmony with the loved one in your bed, and forgive one another and start again.

In each new sunrise, humanity feels the optimism of the new day, but in truth there is nothing any more magical about the Sun than there is the Moon. So really, despite the power and intensity of light, each moment by moment, each sliver of a nanosecond is a chance to start fresh.

So today, instead of feeling silly, angry, or disappointed, why not feel alive? Feel glad to be still alive and not moldering in a grave somewhere in rot. Your time is now, the Eternal Now, and you have the moment to begin your great purpose.

If you've been reading along, then you know some of the answers. Much of life has to do with the living species all around us. If you decide to take on the mantle of Steward and live like the Source of all living things intended, then perhaps it's not too late.

Even though you are not 16 and full of life as you once were, even though your boundless optimism has diminished, even though your face is not marred by error and worry and doubt and fear, you still have a chance left to do great things.

We think because we're older that our time has passed us by. What if Abraham and Sarah thought that? They were old, very old, and way past the time of being infused with great liveliness and youth, and yet from these elderly people came the future.

We are dynamic beings, literally changing moment by moment at the cellular level. Who you were a moment ago is different than who you are now. The continuity of the Self we think is fixed, but aren't you a different person in your mind and thoughts than you were at 16? At 25? At 32? At 45? And on and on ad infinitium....

So don't feel foolish because you believed something yesterday. Instead, believe in something with purpose today. Embrace life with all of your strength. Ask for forgiveness and give forgiveness freely. Renew your belief in the Source with all fervor. Decide today to learn skills and ask for help and read and then do in the forest and meadows and mountains and deserts and seas.

You can do this. Your ancestors did, and they had fewer opportunities, assets, resources, education, and even belief in themselves. They did it because it was normal, regular, expected, and full of purpose.
pmb1

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12/22/2012 08:19 AM

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Re: Last minute tips for parents when the SHTF
I do believe that preppers prepare for anything including the economy. Not just for the Mayan apocalypse. Gesh some folks just never get it. My mom was a prepper way back in the 40s, yet back then it wasn't called that it was called normal behavior. I was brought up to always have enough food and everything else to last a year. I do it because I was brought up to do it. Its not our fault that so many people are stupid and think the government will protect them when something bad happens. Which isn't going to happen.
Anonymous Coward
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12/22/2012 09:19 AM
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Re: Last minute tips for parents when the SHTF
I do believe that preppers prepare for anything including the economy. Not just for the Mayan apocalypse. Gesh some folks just never get it. My mom was a prepper way back in the 40s, yet back then it wasn't called that it was called normal behavior. I was brought up to always have enough food and everything else to last a year. I do it because I was brought up to do it. Its not our fault that so many people are stupid and think the government will protect them when something bad happens. Which isn't going to happen.
 Quoting: pmb1


Thanks for your comments! It is what our ancestors did all along. Only these last generations have we become so disconnected from our Earth skills. 'Hope you like some of the tips presented here.

A fireless cooker or haybox or heatbox cooker

Prior to the 1900's, it was fairly common to cook someone on a woodstove, but heating something continually on simmer ran everyone out of the home because it got so HOT. It also used up way too much fuel, and no one wanted to gather more firewood than necessary, nor waste wood either. Also simmering meant having to stir the meal or else it would burn. Since people had lots of chores, who wanted to watch over a pot like that?

So, a fireless cooker or haybox was a method of heating up a soup or stew to boiling, placing it in an insulated box or container, then coming back hours later to eat the meal. It can't overcook because the heat slowly diminishes based upon the amount of insulation, and also minimiing opening the lid of the pot.

You'll have to experiment with it and follow recipes. Here's a lot of links and a video to explain this simple process.
[link to www.hearthcook.com]


Now you may be thinking, gosh there's plenty of wood. Actually no there isn't. It just seems that way because you notice the trees in your neighborhood. If all of your neighbors are burning wood, then you quickly encounter what African villages have happen...scores of trees used up in a single generation and not having nearly enough firewood to burn minimally.

Using this method is good old common sense. It preserves wood so that you can use it to build tools or craft or artwork or furniture or homes.

Cooking this way means probably eating the same meal at lunch and dinner since refrigeration will be non-existent post-collapse.

Note the tip at the end of the video. Cooking this way can utilized today to prepare a soup or stew, load it into the car, drive to your destination, then eat an inexpensive meal versus eating out. That's important for people to do as many more folks are trying to save money now, and preparing several meals this way might make family trips much more affordable.
Don'tBeAfraid

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12/22/2012 09:28 AM

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Re: Last minute tips for parents when the SHTF
Because I feel optimistic today, I created an account. This should help eliminate a lot of the grammatical and spelling errors as I can edit my posts.

I hope some of what I write genuinely assists folks to live life better and with more calmness and strength.
Don'tBeAfraid

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12/23/2012 07:33 AM

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Re: Last minute tips for parents when the SHTF
Uses for a Christmas tree after Christmas

If you're the kind of person that purchases a real evergreen tree (that's been cut down) for Christmas, then you probably would rather the tree be used in a useful way after Christmas rather than simply becoming garbage.

One idea is to use a tree as a micro-habitat for animals and birds. By placing the tree at the back of your lot, it will become a shelter for whatever animals are still around in Winter and birds that haven't migrated. They will sniff it out and look for potential food sources within it later as Winter continues. That means two things, 1)you can do a good deed by putting the tree there 2) you can use it as an area for potentially trapping animals later if you need to. Placing some discarded vegetable or fruit waste, some salt, or something similar around the area will attract some creatures. 3) This will then become a test place for different kinds of traps or snares, but be careful and use good technique and de-scent your hands before placing the snare or traps otherwise they will mostly avoid the area.

Note: your cat (and possibly your dog) will quickly discover that other animals are attracted to the area and will hunt here too.

Putting the tree into a pond will create a micro-habitat for fish too. They'll congregate there and you can come back later and fish around the brush carefully (since you can tangle your line) or even create fish traps (see previous postings).

Burying the tree around the weaker parts of your property will prevent erosion. By burying it whole in the Hugelkulture method, it will not cause as much “draw” of nitrogen. You're essentially creating a skeleton of the tree branches in the soil.

After if dries out, evergreens are often mulched and used for forest paths. See if your local state park wants them. If you use that on your property, remember that the high acidity of fresh mulch is NOT recommended for spreading, but should be allowed to season before use.

While it is entirely possible to burn a tree for firewood, it's not a good idea to burn it within a woodstove or fireplace. It contains creosote compounds which are volatile phytochemicals that will disperse and coat your flue and then a chimney fire can result. Not a good idea. You could however get many uses of the tree in a rocket stove to create numerous meals.

If one needed Vitamin C badly, one could harvest the pine needles to make pine needle tea. See previous postings.

Two ideas from the Permies folks and Paul Wheaton:
The people of Finland cut the evergreen branches to create a pine brush mat that will remove dirt from your shoes.


Trees used as bedding for chickens. The natural acidity of the pine (tannic acid) interacts with the chicken manure on multiple levels.


A lot of people choose to purchase living Christmas trees each year, dig up a place for them and read up on how to best protect them over Winter (best in the warm South where I am from), and then have many years (sometimes decades) of their Christmas trees in their yard. This is a very good idea, but can be expensive since it's pricey.

Last Edited by Don'tBeAfraid on 12/23/2012 07:37 AM
Don'tBeAfraid

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12/23/2012 07:48 AM

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Re: Last minute tips for parents when the SHTF
Though it is Winter now in my area, in the USA there are State forestry services that provide tree seedlings for a nominal cost. Usually they develop fine, it's mostly that people fail to water them adequately. This is a very inexpensive way to improve your property, but careful planning is a must for considering the growing size of the tree width and lengthwise, ability to cut your lawn around it, etc.

The smart thing to do is create a rainwater catchment project to hold a reserve of water to slowly and regularly water your plants. Sure, it's a little expense at first, but given the historic Drought we're experiencing, it's money well spent.
Don'tBeAfraid

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12/23/2012 03:00 PM

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Re: Last minute tips for parents when the SHTF
Isn't it amazing that despite people being short on assets, because of the recent events in Sandy Hook and concern about a clamp down, people have found assets to purchase more guns, magazines, and ammunition? While I understand the reaction, wouldn't it make more sense to purchase other tools with equal fervor?

A lot of people don't plan whatsoever. They react to whatever crisis is before them, endlessly putting out fires. It's not a great way to live.

I understand their concern. It's always possible for a repressive government to restrict firearms in yet another way. Despite all of the gun control laws that we have now, it really hasn't cut crime at all. It may have cut some gun violence from acts of passion. Personally I doubt it. Anyone can purchase a gun and ammunition at any time by other than legal means, so the whole litany of gun rules and regulations doesn't really help.

We're a violent people in the US. Maybe not the most violent, but we do have far more incidents than say our Northern neighbor (Canada) who has as many guns as we do. Guns are not the problem. It's our ethos that's the issue. Note however that Canada has gun violence issues including murder, probably due to gang issues. They're not immune, and your nation is probably not immune either.

If you're the kind of person that's decided to prepare, I hope you're spending time contemplating the best way of responding to changes in your nation wherever that may be. Being able to raise some of your own food to save money, eat healthier, have more choices, and put some away for the future...these are good basic ideas that will generate wealth versus investing too heavily in weapons.

Be balanced in what you do. Having an arsenal is not being balanced. Learning how to reload ammunition is a good skill especially if you do a lot of target practice. Having a gazillion rounds “just-in-case” is seldom going to be worth it.

Wouldn't spending some time planning the new garden be a good way to release some stress and to foster some optimism? To me, seeing the varieties of plants to put in my garden, reading up on some heirloom kind of vegetable that tastes better, understanding how to harvest some wild edibles like tree crops, looking over notes of problem areas, these are worthy activities for preparedness especially in Winter.

How long has it been since you took a refresher course in First Aid, not to mention basic CPR? Why not inquire how to best do that in the next few weeks?

Even though the Bible is the most common book in American homes, when was the last time you actually sat down with a Bible commentary, dictionary, and used some Hebrew and Greek resources to read and learn about it? Wouldn't this be an equally valuable skill to have, both to learn more, stimulate old brain cells, and find some inner peace?

I'll bet that most of the guys reading this haven't sewn anything in a long time. Do you know how? If you had to stitch up your tent, or patch it, or fix a zipper on a sleeping bag, not to mention putting on some buttons, could you do it?

And you ladies, when was the last time you cleaned your firearm, shot a couple of magazines at a target at the range, and did you wear hearing protection while doing so? Try firing without hearing protection to see just how loud it is and imagine firing under night conditions. Do you have a night sight on your handgun? If not, how will you shoot accurately?

Even though it's Winter, when was the last time you took your children out for a hike so they and you could get some fresh air, look at the native species of animals and plants that you observe, look for animal tracks, scars and sign of their passage, evidence on trees of beaver, etc? When if ever have you taken them to quietly stalk some animals just to get closer? When was the last time you built a fire together?

There's lots of things to do. Make time to do some things to build up your skills now, and especially build up the skillsets of your children while they're on holiday break.

I understand the importance of guns and ammunition, but be balanced about it. Make an effort to know more things and build up your tribe's ability to cope well instead.

Last Edited by Don'tBeAfraid on 12/23/2012 04:30 PM
Don'tBeAfraid

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12/24/2012 07:39 PM

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Re: Last minute tips for parents when the SHTF
If your heater went out, but you still had electricity, you could stay warm with a kotatsu.
[link to en.wikipedia.org]

In Japan, and actually in a lot of countries, a heater of some sort is placed underneath a table. Historically a charcoal brazier was used along with a screen mechanism to allow heat to flow out from the brazier and warm the legs of the people sitting next to the table. With a kotatsu, a blanket is placed on top of the table, and this holds in the heat since it's a form of insulation.

If something happened and you had to cope for a little while, then this would be one way that even a small space heater could keep you and several people relatively warm.

A similar method can be used with space blankets. By placing a space blanket underneath your fitted sheet, and then sleeping on top of the space blanket and covering up with several layers of insulating blankets will keep you somewhat warm using the bivouac principle.

Another similar idea is to sleep on top of an electric blanket and allow insulating blankets to trap in the heat.

Of course, all of this is contingent upon the electricity still operating in your home. If that ever goes out, one way that you can warm up a room is to use paraffin oil lamps to both light up the room and add needed heat to the room at the same time. The old style kerosene lamps likewise put out a lot of heat too. Having a regular kerosene heater is wise even if you don't use it often. The newer kind don't smell as much as the old style ones did.

When the heater fails in a home, it's important to have everyone sleep in the same room. By doing that, you can insulate that one room very well and use whatever means you can MacGuyver to warm that sole room up. Yes it's uncomfortable, but at least then you know that everyone is warm enough.

Remember to have everyone wear layers of clothing and wear a cap to bed to minimize the heat loss.
Don'tBeAfraid

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12/26/2012 02:04 PM

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Re: Last minute tips for parents when the SHTF
Breaking in your boots

First let's dispense with some foolishness. There's no good way to hurry up the breaking in process, not without also doing damage to the boot. Yes, you can soak the boots in water and wear them that way and break them in faster, but in a survival situation doing that could result in trench foot and damage to the boot.

The real way to break in your hiking boots is to slowly start wearing them over time and break them in by walking further and further in them and progressively loosening up the material such that it gives to your feet. You want to lace them up properly and place the tongue in place and wear them for short rounds each day and walk in them. I don't believe in using shoe stretchers. If you need them, it's because your boots have gotten too tight. Lose some weight...lardass. Believe me, taking some long hikes several days in a row is much more work than walking on a treadmill since it's up and down hills. Seldom does nature provide perfectly flat terrain.

Neetsfoot oil is an oil derived from the shin bones and feet of cattle. The fat is rendered and then sold commercially as a waterproofing agent. It's money well spent. Rub it in well to all the exposed parts of the leather. Apply two coats.

If you need to dry your boots, do it slowly. Flip the boots upside-down on some sticks, dry them out as best as you can with some cloth and paper, and then let the natural evaporation occur. It's always bad if you have to hurry it up. A wise person has at least two pairs of boots to switch out, for in Winter you could easily get your boots wet every day looking for firewood, checking traps, hunting, collecting, etc. More is better.

You break your boots in now... slowly. An old comfortable pair of shoes are easy to slip on, but if you do that then you'll end up having to walk in some new pair for too long and end up with blisters.

Keep the boots clean inside and out. Many people abuse their boots and end up with small infections on their feet as a result of that. Wiping them out quickly with a little damp towel with some soap will end up sanitizing them. You don't have to be fussy about it, and everyone in a cabin with you will thank you. Imagine four people with 8 pairs of stinky boots. You get the idea.

Everyone who only has one pair of boots has been tempted to sit their boots by the fire. NO NO NO. This leads to cracking the leather and fire-hardens it so that it will prematurely crack. It also slightly shrinks them which means more blisters. It's equally bad to deliver short bursts from a hair drier into the boots, but since you can control the heat at a lower setting some of you will try that. I hope not.

As your boot wears, you can apply some silastic to repair some of the bottom treads, but unless you can find someone to resole it for you, then most likely you're buying a new pair. It's often $60 to resole hiking boots, so it's entirely up to the average cost of the boot. See previous postings on using old tires to resole boots.

Here's one company in New England that resoles boots.
[link to cabotresole.com]

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