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He Walked the Americas - Evidence of Jesus by Native Americans

 
Anonymous Coward
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09/21/2011 09:42 PM
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Re: He Walked the Americas - Evidence of Jesus by Native Americans
pretty interesting. aside the part about his symbol was the cross. there's a lot of debate about that.
 Quoting: isis88


He knows the future; He knows every thought you are going to have, He knows every decision you are going to make.

He knows the symbol that would be taken up in the future to represent His Father's message and Himself.

He knew then that these legends wouldn't be "taught". Therefore, what better way to demonstrate to us that He did visit? Maybe it's the proof that some need if they don't trust the Bible? My theory anyway.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1555756


"He sees you when you're sleeping, he knows when you're awake, he knows if you've been bad or good so be good for goodness sake"

fucking retarded religious fanatics out to be kicked out of the gene pool
Anonymous Coward
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09/21/2011 09:45 PM
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Re: He Walked the Americas - Evidence of Jesus by Native Americans
BULLSHIT!! Christians in their wonderful enlightenment, are directly responsible for nearly all of the Indian Genocides and horrors inflicted on those poor native peoples. They (Christians) killed more Indians, women and children, stole more land, lied more often, raped, murdered and pillaged in the name of God that would even make ole Adolph blush. Don't forget lovely Christian folks and their hospitality, Small pox in blankets, trail of tears, etc, etc, ad nauseum. You "jesustards" will never find the truth because your blinded by the biggest lie ever told.

If you researched half as much as you preached, if you opened your mind as much as you condemned others, you just might find something out. But you'll blindly jump into any lie and spout bible phrases, (which by the way, you cant even decipher the encoded meanings of those), like a complete and utter fucktard about stupid shit like this. Its obvious some worthless, brainwashed, Christian fool in their desire to credit Jesus with something else that's not, provable, scientific, with no facts what so ever, armed with just a prayer, PLAGERIZED, PLAGERIZED (Like most of the bible is plagiarized from earlier civilizations) the legends of the South American gods, Quetzalcoatl and Viacocha to name a few.

So fuckoff2
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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09/21/2011 09:46 PM
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Re: He Walked the Americas - Evidence of Jesus by Native Americans
I have personally known Jesus Christ for 37 years and this is probably His work. I would say that this is what happened; because, knowing God like I do, He wouldn't leave the Indians out of having salvation if His disciples for whatever reason didn't or couldn't reach them. So I would say that these stories are true!!
 Quoting: killerwhale737



Rings true for me. I saw nothing but God's message being shared.
Anonymous Coward
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09/21/2011 09:48 PM
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Re: He Walked the Americas - Evidence of Jesus by Native Americans
BULLSHIT!! Christians in their wonderful enlightenment, are directly responsible for nearly all of the Indian Genocides and horrors inflicted on those poor native peoples. They (Christians) killed more Indians, women and children, stole more land, lied more often, raped, murdered and pillaged in the name of God that would even make ole Adolph blush. Don't forget lovely Christian folks and their hospitality, Small pox in blankets, trail of tears, etc, etc, ad nauseum. You "jesustards" will never find the truth because your blinded by the biggest lie ever told.

If you researched half as much as you preached, if you opened your mind as much as you condemned others, you just might find something out. But you'll blindly jump into any lie and spout bible phrases, (which by the way, you cant even decipher the encoded meanings of those), like a complete and utter fucktard about stupid shit like this. Its obvious some worthless, brainwashed, Christian fool in their desire to credit Jesus with something else that's not, provable, scientific, with no facts what so ever, armed with just a prayer, PLAGERIZED, PLAGERIZED (Like most of the bible is plagiarized from earlier civilizations) the legends of the South American gods, Quetzalcoatl and Viacocha to name a few.

So fuckoff2
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1538171


Epic winning!
:preachy2::preachy3:
:preachy:
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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09/21/2011 09:50 PM
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Re: He Walked the Americas - Evidence of Jesus by Native Americans
I KNOW THIS IS A WALL OF TEXT POST BUT IT THOROUGHLY DEBUNKS THIS MATERIAL AND SHOWS IT TO BE A WORK OF FICTION SO ANYONE WHO BELIEVES THIS "HE WALKED THE AMERICAS" MATERIAL SHOULD READ, THE FIRST PARAGRAPH IS MY WRITING, THE REST IS A REVIEW.


The "evidence" you are all talking about and believing comes from the book He Walked the Americas by L Tylor Hansen. This book is a work of FICTION and was created by a devout Christian in the 60's who was serving the agenda of the Church and her own beliefs in creating fictional Indian myths. Just because someone says an Indian tribe had a certain myth doesn't make it the case, people make things up all the time, it's easy. L. Taylor Hansen was not an anthropologist, nor trained in the scholarship she purported to possess.

She straight out lied about her qualifications. Funny thing: none of these tribes she met with "in councils" can remember her. Chiefs she names (Sedillio, for example) cannot be verified to have ever existed (echoes of Carlos Castenada's "Don Juan"). Every Indian talks like the "mystic shaman" from 1960's Hollywood. Hansen describes her attendance at many "secret councils" The problem is that she makes up all sorts of cultural nonsense to embellish her tribal liaisons (such as attributing "blood rites" to the Ojibway--a tribe which has no such tradition, and placing the "Puans"/Puants" (a racist term for Ho-Chunk) in Oklahoma among great networks of prehistoric cities...again, phony). A whole slew of these council speeches ends with the stereotypical "noble savage" Indian saying in identical fashion: "For this night, I have spoken." I suppose a reader who thinks Tonto was authentic might be impressed, but anyone who actually knows real Indians will just roll their eyes at Hansen's pretensions to "Indian dialect." Ugh.

Hansen tells story after story of the "pale visitor" (Jesus), who is described as having "blue eyes" and "light skin" (because Hansen, being the anthropologist she is, apparently knows something about Semitic peoples that nobody else in the world knows?). She also quotes this "pale visitor" from her sources, who seem to have quotes from him that have survived for two thousand years in hand-me-down legends, yet mysteriously parallel Biblical sayings. To the gullible reader who wants to believe in a New World Jesus (*note the preponderance of Mormon fans of HWTA), this is sublime. To anyone whose mothers didn't participate in thermometer-eating contests while pregnant, this is just weird, and easily explained: these stories, if they actually WERE told to her, are re-hashed tales learned from four centuries of missionaries! Hansen never once contemplates the possibility that Indians simply adopted common Bible stories on their own; she swallows their re-runs of the gospels as pristine truth which no scientist can explain. It works like this: Missionaries teach Bible stories to Indians for 400 years, and Indians repeat those stories right back again. Hansen hears them and concludes, "Shazam! That proves those stories are true--the Indians tell them, too! How'd they know?" Golly!

Hansen quotes Mayan guides from archaeological sites that allude to the "pale visitor" (nevermind that by then Mormons and other churches had worked over those properties for decades in evangelical efforts). She quotes their tales of the Pale Visitor's time among the Toltecs (nevermind that the Toltecs are now regarded by general scholarship as a MADE-UP people, contrived by the Aztec as part of their own legends, and placed at about 800 CE...not at the time of Christ). When a tribe names their legendary visitor "Chee-zoos," Hansen can't wait to pounce on it. To her, there is no possible way this could be the most obvious evidence of a tribes' simple assimilation of missionary teachings they've heard a thousand times now...Oh, no--it's MIRACULOUS! When this pale visitor names his father ("Ye-Ho-Vah"), Hansen never once ponders, "Hey, why would Jesus be referring to the Jewish Yahweh with a corrupted modern pronunciation of His name? Come to think of it, why would Yehsua name himself 'Jesus' (Chee-zoos in HWTA) to the Indians in the first place?" No, none of this clicks in Hansen's brain. To her, a Jewish messiah named Yeshua would INDEED call Himself "Jesus," and would re-name Yawheh incorrectly as "Jehovah", and the fact that these words line up with the language of missionaries who have overrun these same tribes for centuries is a peccadillo. To her, this is an uncovered truth, hidden for eons!

There are other problems. The design of the book itself is just weird. It's weird for an "anthropologist" to decorate stories of Plains and Algonquin Indians with drawings of Mayan glyphs or Aztec stelae. She has the Mesoamerican deity Kukulkan painted in Kiowa Five artist style. Hansen produces carvings of shell gorgets from Oklahoma that depict the eagle dancers (a custom which is still practiced to this day), and interprets them as ancient carvings of angels (See Fundaburk and Foreman's book "Sun Circles and Human Hands: The Southeast Indians Arts and Industries" for a more genuine treatment of these "angels"). Every perpendicular intersection of lines becomes a "cross," and every Indian observance of the four directions becomes a symbolic "cross" reference. At one point, she has the "Puant" (Ho-Chunk of Wisconsin) telling tales of the Toltec, from Mesoamerica!

Hansen can't seem to figure out which Indian tribe is which, either. She refers to the "Iroquois" as a tribe (they're not; there is NO "Iroquois tribe"). She has Ojibways explaining Sioux sun dances, and sharing councils together (unaware that they are traditinoal enemies). She denies that the Aztec calendar stone is Aztec at all; to her it's a Toltec stone of prophecy and warning (it's not; the stone is Aztec, it actually dates its own creation, and contains no "warning glyph" where Hansen sees one). She refers to the "Candelabra" designs at the Bay of Paracas as "three crosses" (Google them; its not even close, and the ACTUAL legend is that it's the lighting trident - a weapon - of Viraccocha), and re-interprets the Moundbuilder eye-in-hand motif as stigmata. She makes up words that don't exist in tribal languages to name the "Pale Visitor" (such as claiming that his name means "Light of the Dawn" in Ojibway...the ACTUAL Ojibway word for this is "Wabun Inini," not even close to Hansen's made-up terms, none of which has any correspondence in actual Ojibway).

Hansen trots out the favorite Mormon meme that Quetzalcoatl (aka, Viraccocha, aka Kukulkan) is Jesus, the "bearded pale god." Only one problem: the Mesoamerican Natives never actually claimed any of these were bearded deities promising to return! Those details were added in the decades following Spanish contact BY THE SPANIARDS to prey upon their new indigenous adversaries. What Hansen omits from these deities' legends are the parts where they create humans by draining blood from self-inflicted wounds on their penises, where they sire monsters as offspring, where they lead conquests of neighboring communities, where they are represented by the feathered serpent (just for fun, watch a Mormon try to twist that into an analogy for Jesus anyways!), where he was one of four sons, where he was seduced by a priestess while drunk, and where he was driven away after a military defeat. Hansen won't touch that stuff; the part that gets her creative juices flowing is the notion that this is gentle Jesus, meek and mild. And the beard? According to the Nahuatl account itself, it's made of feathers: "Immediately he made him his green mask; he took red color with which he made the lips russet; he took yellow to make the facade; and he made the fangs; continuing, he made his beard of feathers..." (Anales de Cuauhtitlan., 1975, 9.)" And anyway, wouldn't this just as plausibly prove that Odin walked the Americas?

See why this is problematic? See why it's weird to praise the book on the basis of its confirmation of a reader's self-selected belief system, and not on the basis of its actual, testable merits? I wish this book were true. It would be AMAZING if these stories were true, if they were independently verifiable, if tribes really did have unadulterated legends of this type. But it's not true. It's fantasy projected onto tribes in the most clichéd of ways: the non-Indian writer who is brought into "secret councils" with noble "Red Indian" elders and shamans, to have "ancient hidden wisdom" shared with her, and then assigned to go write that secret knowledge down and sell her books to the world. This ruse has happened over and over, in the same form and yet ill-informed readers STILL fall for it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1546287


Obviously, you are attacking the Mormon faith. That seems to be your desired target.

What do you believe? Do you believe in God and Jesus?
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 1555756
United States
09/21/2011 09:59 PM
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Re: He Walked the Americas - Evidence of Jesus by Native Americans
BULLSHIT!! Christians in their wonderful enlightenment, are directly responsible for nearly all of the Indian Genocides and horrors inflicted on those poor native peoples. They (Christians) killed more Indians, women and children, stole more land, lied more often, raped, murdered and pillaged in the name of God that would even make ole Adolph blush. Don't forget lovely Christian folks and their hospitality, Small pox in blankets, trail of tears, etc, etc, ad nauseum. You "jesustards" will never find the truth because your blinded by the biggest lie ever told.

If you researched half as much as you preached, if you opened your mind as much as you condemned others, you just might find something out. But you'll blindly jump into any lie and spout bible phrases, (which by the way, you cant even decipher the encoded meanings of those), like a complete and utter fucktard about stupid shit like this. Its obvious some worthless, brainwashed, Christian fool in their desire to credit Jesus with something else that's not, provable, scientific, with no facts what so ever, armed with just a prayer, PLAGERIZED, PLAGERIZED (Like most of the bible is plagiarized from earlier civilizations) the legends of the South American gods, Quetzalcoatl and Viacocha to name a few.

So fuckoff2
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1538171


And the biggest LIE ever told by the deceivers is that the Christians killed others! No Christian who willingly kills others will go to Heaven unless they fully repent and God sees the truthfulness of what's in their heart. Just as today, but even worse, you have wolves in sheep's clothing
walking around pretending to be Christian. Please. Who the heck to you think is off killing others in these fabricated wars? Who do you think is committing the fraud? Who do you think is spreading the lies and deception? Who do you think is taking away our jobs and our homes? NOT CHRISTIANS.

"if you opened your mind as much as you condemned others, you just might find something out"

So sad. You cannot know the Truth until you truly know God and understand His message. When you know God, you will then be awakened and complete. You will then see. You will then know.

The hatred I see in your words reveals the level of hatred in your heart. Which is exactly the opposite of what God wants for you.
Anonymous Coward
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09/21/2011 10:00 PM
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Re: He Walked the Americas - Evidence of Jesus by Native Americans
I KNOW THIS IS A WALL OF TEXT POST BUT IT THOROUGHLY DEBUNKS THIS MATERIAL AND SHOWS IT TO BE A WORK OF FICTION SO ANYONE WHO BELIEVES THIS "HE WALKED THE AMERICAS" MATERIAL SHOULD READ, THE FIRST PARAGRAPH IS MY WRITING, THE REST IS A REVIEW.


The "evidence" you are all talking about and believing comes from the book He Walked the Americas by L Tylor Hansen. This book is a work of FICTION and was created by a devout Christian in the 60's who was serving the agenda of the Church and her own beliefs in creating fictional Indian myths. Just because someone says an Indian tribe had a certain myth doesn't make it the case, people make things up all the time, it's easy. L. Taylor Hansen was not an anthropologist, nor trained in the scholarship she purported to possess.

She straight out lied about her qualifications. Funny thing: none of these tribes she met with "in councils" can remember her. Chiefs she names (Sedillio, for example) cannot be verified to have ever existed (echoes of Carlos Castenada's "Don Juan"). Every Indian talks like the "mystic shaman" from 1960's Hollywood. Hansen describes her attendance at many "secret councils" The problem is that she makes up all sorts of cultural nonsense to embellish her tribal liaisons (such as attributing "blood rites" to the Ojibway--a tribe which has no such tradition, and placing the "Puans"/Puants" (a racist term for Ho-Chunk) in Oklahoma among great networks of prehistoric cities...again, phony). A whole slew of these council speeches ends with the stereotypical "noble savage" Indian saying in identical fashion: "For this night, I have spoken." I suppose a reader who thinks Tonto was authentic might be impressed, but anyone who actually knows real Indians will just roll their eyes at Hansen's pretensions to "Indian dialect." Ugh.

Hansen tells story after story of the "pale visitor" (Jesus), who is described as having "blue eyes" and "light skin" (because Hansen, being the anthropologist she is, apparently knows something about Semitic peoples that nobody else in the world knows?). She also quotes this "pale visitor" from her sources, who seem to have quotes from him that have survived for two thousand years in hand-me-down legends, yet mysteriously parallel Biblical sayings. To the gullible reader who wants to believe in a New World Jesus (*note the preponderance of Mormon fans of HWTA), this is sublime. To anyone whose mothers didn't participate in thermometer-eating contests while pregnant, this is just weird, and easily explained: these stories, if they actually WERE told to her, are re-hashed tales learned from four centuries of missionaries! Hansen never once contemplates the possibility that Indians simply adopted common Bible stories on their own; she swallows their re-runs of the gospels as pristine truth which no scientist can explain. It works like this: Missionaries teach Bible stories to Indians for 400 years, and Indians repeat those stories right back again. Hansen hears them and concludes, "Shazam! That proves those stories are true--the Indians tell them, too! How'd they know?" Golly!

Hansen quotes Mayan guides from archaeological sites that allude to the "pale visitor" (nevermind that by then Mormons and other churches had worked over those properties for decades in evangelical efforts). She quotes their tales of the Pale Visitor's time among the Toltecs (nevermind that the Toltecs are now regarded by general scholarship as a MADE-UP people, contrived by the Aztec as part of their own legends, and placed at about 800 CE...not at the time of Christ). When a tribe names their legendary visitor "Chee-zoos," Hansen can't wait to pounce on it. To her, there is no possible way this could be the most obvious evidence of a tribes' simple assimilation of missionary teachings they've heard a thousand times now...Oh, no--it's MIRACULOUS! When this pale visitor names his father ("Ye-Ho-Vah"), Hansen never once ponders, "Hey, why would Jesus be referring to the Jewish Yahweh with a corrupted modern pronunciation of His name? Come to think of it, why would Yehsua name himself 'Jesus' (Chee-zoos in HWTA) to the Indians in the first place?" No, none of this clicks in Hansen's brain. To her, a Jewish messiah named Yeshua would INDEED call Himself "Jesus," and would re-name Yawheh incorrectly as "Jehovah", and the fact that these words line up with the language of missionaries who have overrun these same tribes for centuries is a peccadillo. To her, this is an uncovered truth, hidden for eons!

There are other problems. The design of the book itself is just weird. It's weird for an "anthropologist" to decorate stories of Plains and Algonquin Indians with drawings of Mayan glyphs or Aztec stelae. She has the Mesoamerican deity Kukulkan painted in Kiowa Five artist style. Hansen produces carvings of shell gorgets from Oklahoma that depict the eagle dancers (a custom which is still practiced to this day), and interprets them as ancient carvings of angels (See Fundaburk and Foreman's book "Sun Circles and Human Hands: The Southeast Indians Arts and Industries" for a more genuine treatment of these "angels"). Every perpendicular intersection of lines becomes a "cross," and every Indian observance of the four directions becomes a symbolic "cross" reference. At one point, she has the "Puant" (Ho-Chunk of Wisconsin) telling tales of the Toltec, from Mesoamerica!

Hansen can't seem to figure out which Indian tribe is which, either. She refers to the "Iroquois" as a tribe (they're not; there is NO "Iroquois tribe"). She has Ojibways explaining Sioux sun dances, and sharing councils together (unaware that they are traditinoal enemies). She denies that the Aztec calendar stone is Aztec at all; to her it's a Toltec stone of prophecy and warning (it's not; the stone is Aztec, it actually dates its own creation, and contains no "warning glyph" where Hansen sees one). She refers to the "Candelabra" designs at the Bay of Paracas as "three crosses" (Google them; its not even close, and the ACTUAL legend is that it's the lighting trident - a weapon - of Viraccocha), and re-interprets the Moundbuilder eye-in-hand motif as stigmata. She makes up words that don't exist in tribal languages to name the "Pale Visitor" (such as claiming that his name means "Light of the Dawn" in Ojibway...the ACTUAL Ojibway word for this is "Wabun Inini," not even close to Hansen's made-up terms, none of which has any correspondence in actual Ojibway).

Hansen trots out the favorite Mormon meme that Quetzalcoatl (aka, Viraccocha, aka Kukulkan) is Jesus, the "bearded pale god." Only one problem: the Mesoamerican Natives never actually claimed any of these were bearded deities promising to return! Those details were added in the decades following Spanish contact BY THE SPANIARDS to prey upon their new indigenous adversaries. What Hansen omits from these deities' legends are the parts where they create humans by draining blood from self-inflicted wounds on their penises, where they sire monsters as offspring, where they lead conquests of neighboring communities, where they are represented by the feathered serpent (just for fun, watch a Mormon try to twist that into an analogy for Jesus anyways!), where he was one of four sons, where he was seduced by a priestess while drunk, and where he was driven away after a military defeat. Hansen won't touch that stuff; the part that gets her creative juices flowing is the notion that this is gentle Jesus, meek and mild. And the beard? According to the Nahuatl account itself, it's made of feathers: "Immediately he made him his green mask; he took red color with which he made the lips russet; he took yellow to make the facade; and he made the fangs; continuing, he made his beard of feathers..." (Anales de Cuauhtitlan., 1975, 9.)" And anyway, wouldn't this just as plausibly prove that Odin walked the Americas?

See why this is problematic? See why it's weird to praise the book on the basis of its confirmation of a reader's self-selected belief system, and not on the basis of its actual, testable merits? I wish this book were true. It would be AMAZING if these stories were true, if they were independently verifiable, if tribes really did have unadulterated legends of this type. But it's not true. It's fantasy projected onto tribes in the most clichéd of ways: the non-Indian writer who is brought into "secret councils" with noble "Red Indian" elders and shamans, to have "ancient hidden wisdom" shared with her, and then assigned to go write that secret knowledge down and sell her books to the world. This ruse has happened over and over, in the same form and yet ill-informed readers STILL fall for it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1546287


Obviously, you are attacking the Mormon faith. That seems to be your desired target.

What do you believe? Do you believe in God and Jesus?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1555756

Jesus was invented by the jewish people so that they could control a large percentage of the population without allowing them to have status and rights as a jewish. A christian is nothing more than a deluded fool that believes they must worship jewish people because their god was one. What a bunch of idiots, I mean REALLY!
Skymeat

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09/21/2011 10:02 PM
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Re: He Walked the Americas - Evidence of Jesus by Native Americans
For fucks sake. It's still a bunch of shit people made up. There is no proof.


Proof only exists in Science.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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09/21/2011 10:10 PM
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Re: He Walked the Americas - Evidence of Jesus by Native Americans
I KNOW THIS IS A WALL OF TEXT POST BUT IT THOROUGHLY DEBUNKS THIS MATERIAL AND SHOWS IT TO BE A WORK OF FICTION SO ANYONE WHO BELIEVES THIS "HE WALKED THE AMERICAS" MATERIAL SHOULD READ, THE FIRST PARAGRAPH IS MY WRITING, THE REST IS A REVIEW.


The "evidence" you are all talking about and believing comes from the book He Walked the Americas by L Tylor Hansen. This book is a work of FICTION and was created by a devout Christian in the 60's who was serving the agenda of the Church and her own beliefs in creating fictional Indian myths. Just because someone says an Indian tribe had a certain myth doesn't make it the case, people make things up all the time, it's easy. L. Taylor Hansen was not an anthropologist, nor trained in the scholarship she purported to possess.

She straight out lied about her qualifications. Funny thing: none of these tribes she met with "in councils" can remember her. Chiefs she names (Sedillio, for example) cannot be verified to have ever existed (echoes of Carlos Castenada's "Don Juan"). Every Indian talks like the "mystic shaman" from 1960's Hollywood. Hansen describes her attendance at many "secret councils" The problem is that she makes up all sorts of cultural nonsense to embellish her tribal liaisons (such as attributing "blood rites" to the Ojibway--a tribe which has no such tradition, and placing the "Puans"/Puants" (a racist term for Ho-Chunk) in Oklahoma among great networks of prehistoric cities...again, phony). A whole slew of these council speeches ends with the stereotypical "noble savage" Indian saying in identical fashion: "For this night, I have spoken." I suppose a reader who thinks Tonto was authentic might be impressed, but anyone who actually knows real Indians will just roll their eyes at Hansen's pretensions to "Indian dialect." Ugh.

Hansen tells story after story of the "pale visitor" (Jesus), who is described as having "blue eyes" and "light skin" (because Hansen, being the anthropologist she is, apparently knows something about Semitic peoples that nobody else in the world knows?). She also quotes this "pale visitor" from her sources, who seem to have quotes from him that have survived for two thousand years in hand-me-down legends, yet mysteriously parallel Biblical sayings. To the gullible reader who wants to believe in a New World Jesus (*note the preponderance of Mormon fans of HWTA), this is sublime. To anyone whose mothers didn't participate in thermometer-eating contests while pregnant, this is just weird, and easily explained: these stories, if they actually WERE told to her, are re-hashed tales learned from four centuries of missionaries! Hansen never once contemplates the possibility that Indians simply adopted common Bible stories on their own; she swallows their re-runs of the gospels as pristine truth which no scientist can explain. It works like this: Missionaries teach Bible stories to Indians for 400 years, and Indians repeat those stories right back again. Hansen hears them and concludes, "Shazam! That proves those stories are true--the Indians tell them, too! How'd they know?" Golly!

Hansen quotes Mayan guides from archaeological sites that allude to the "pale visitor" (nevermind that by then Mormons and other churches had worked over those properties for decades in evangelical efforts). She quotes their tales of the Pale Visitor's time among the Toltecs (nevermind that the Toltecs are now regarded by general scholarship as a MADE-UP people, contrived by the Aztec as part of their own legends, and placed at about 800 CE...not at the time of Christ). When a tribe names their legendary visitor "Chee-zoos," Hansen can't wait to pounce on it. To her, there is no possible way this could be the most obvious evidence of a tribes' simple assimilation of missionary teachings they've heard a thousand times now...Oh, no--it's MIRACULOUS! When this pale visitor names his father ("Ye-Ho-Vah"), Hansen never once ponders, "Hey, why would Jesus be referring to the Jewish Yahweh with a corrupted modern pronunciation of His name? Come to think of it, why would Yehsua name himself 'Jesus' (Chee-zoos in HWTA) to the Indians in the first place?" No, none of this clicks in Hansen's brain. To her, a Jewish messiah named Yeshua would INDEED call Himself "Jesus," and would re-name Yawheh incorrectly as "Jehovah", and the fact that these words line up with the language of missionaries who have overrun these same tribes for centuries is a peccadillo. To her, this is an uncovered truth, hidden for eons!

There are other problems. The design of the book itself is just weird. It's weird for an "anthropologist" to decorate stories of Plains and Algonquin Indians with drawings of Mayan glyphs or Aztec stelae. She has the Mesoamerican deity Kukulkan painted in Kiowa Five artist style. Hansen produces carvings of shell gorgets from Oklahoma that depict the eagle dancers (a custom which is still practiced to this day), and interprets them as ancient carvings of angels (See Fundaburk and Foreman's book "Sun Circles and Human Hands: The Southeast Indians Arts and Industries" for a more genuine treatment of these "angels"). Every perpendicular intersection of lines becomes a "cross," and every Indian observance of the four directions becomes a symbolic "cross" reference. At one point, she has the "Puant" (Ho-Chunk of Wisconsin) telling tales of the Toltec, from Mesoamerica!

Hansen can't seem to figure out which Indian tribe is which, either. She refers to the "Iroquois" as a tribe (they're not; there is NO "Iroquois tribe"). She has Ojibways explaining Sioux sun dances, and sharing councils together (unaware that they are traditinoal enemies). She denies that the Aztec calendar stone is Aztec at all; to her it's a Toltec stone of prophecy and warning (it's not; the stone is Aztec, it actually dates its own creation, and contains no "warning glyph" where Hansen sees one). She refers to the "Candelabra" designs at the Bay of Paracas as "three crosses" (Google them; its not even close, and the ACTUAL legend is that it's the lighting trident - a weapon - of Viraccocha), and re-interprets the Moundbuilder eye-in-hand motif as stigmata. She makes up words that don't exist in tribal languages to name the "Pale Visitor" (such as claiming that his name means "Light of the Dawn" in Ojibway...the ACTUAL Ojibway word for this is "Wabun Inini," not even close to Hansen's made-up terms, none of which has any correspondence in actual Ojibway).

Hansen trots out the favorite Mormon meme that Quetzalcoatl (aka, Viraccocha, aka Kukulkan) is Jesus, the "bearded pale god." Only one problem: the Mesoamerican Natives never actually claimed any of these were bearded deities promising to return! Those details were added in the decades following Spanish contact BY THE SPANIARDS to prey upon their new indigenous adversaries. What Hansen omits from these deities' legends are the parts where they create humans by draining blood from self-inflicted wounds on their penises, where they sire monsters as offspring, where they lead conquests of neighboring communities, where they are represented by the feathered serpent (just for fun, watch a Mormon try to twist that into an analogy for Jesus anyways!), where he was one of four sons, where he was seduced by a priestess while drunk, and where he was driven away after a military defeat. Hansen won't touch that stuff; the part that gets her creative juices flowing is the notion that this is gentle Jesus, meek and mild. And the beard? According to the Nahuatl account itself, it's made of feathers: "Immediately he made him his green mask; he took red color with which he made the lips russet; he took yellow to make the facade; and he made the fangs; continuing, he made his beard of feathers..." (Anales de Cuauhtitlan., 1975, 9.)" And anyway, wouldn't this just as plausibly prove that Odin walked the Americas?

See why this is problematic? See why it's weird to praise the book on the basis of its confirmation of a reader's self-selected belief system, and not on the basis of its actual, testable merits? I wish this book were true. It would be AMAZING if these stories were true, if they were independently verifiable, if tribes really did have unadulterated legends of this type. But it's not true. It's fantasy projected onto tribes in the most clichéd of ways: the non-Indian writer who is brought into "secret councils" with noble "Red Indian" elders and shamans, to have "ancient hidden wisdom" shared with her, and then assigned to go write that secret knowledge down and sell her books to the world. This ruse has happened over and over, in the same form and yet ill-informed readers STILL fall for it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1546287


Obviously, you are attacking the Mormon faith. That seems to be your desired target.

What do you believe? Do you believe in God and Jesus?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1555756

Jesus was invented by the jewish people so that they could control a large percentage of the population without allowing them to have status and rights as a jewish. A christian is nothing more than a deluded fool that believes they must worship jewish people because their god was one. What a bunch of idiots, I mean REALLY!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1428045



I can see that He hasn't called you.

I'd suggest that you reach out to Him and let Him know your confusion and for Him to show you the Truth. Ask, and ye shall receive.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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09/21/2011 10:11 PM
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Re: He Walked the Americas - Evidence of Jesus by Native Americans
For fucks sake. It's still a bunch of shit people made up. There is no proof.


Proof only exists in Science.
 Quoting: Skymeat


And science has not proven that He does not exist.

He is coming; I'd suggest being ready.
Anonymous Coward
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09/21/2011 10:14 PM
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Re: He Walked the Americas - Evidence of Jesus by Native Americans
It's not about attacking Mormonism.

It's about using scripture to counter false doctrine.

Using scripture to verify the beliefs of any sect.

I've seen people wind up going to hell for alcoholism and whoring. I knew these people. Two. One went there for alcoholism and the other for whoring. Their deaths back up scripture.

If a church teaches that only people who shed innocent blood after baptism are destined for outer darkness than that belief system is not scriptural. Worse than that, it encourages people to engage in alcoholism and whoring, because they will believe that they can engage in these two behaviors and not lose their lives and their salvation. Because they will believe the only sin they can commit which will cost them their lives or their salvation is shedding innocent blood. That will provide them with all the justification they need to engage in behaviors which will cost them their lives and their salvation.
Ha Moshiach
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09/21/2011 10:21 PM
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Re: He Walked the Americas - Evidence of Jesus by Native Americans
"And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd."
John 10:16


He Walked the Americas

Legends of the Pale Prophet from the Native Peoples of the Americas.

The legends that follow are the legends of the Healer. These legends were told by the fireside of a "saintly white teacher," who performed miracles with healing and control over the winds, waters, and other natural items. All describe his eyes as gray-green like the ocean and told stories of the future. His symbol has been woven into blankets, carved on canyon walls, put on pottery and danced in dances. His name has been given to mountains and rivers.

Though the stories are many and spread throughout the Americas, they are broken into bits and pieces, hard to follow and piece together into one tale. His name varied, most names were reflective of his control over the wind and water, as he would request each tribe to name Him as they wished, stating there was no value to a name.

Common to almost all:

*He was a white man with a beard
*He said He came from across the sea
*He would choose twelve "disciples"
*He spoke of His Father's Kingdom
*He wore a bright white garment with golden sandals
*He made references to the future
*He had control over the wind and all elements
*He had the ability to heal wounds
*His sign was the cross
*He taught love and peace
*He taught that good deeds were important
*He referred them to the Dawn Star


-----

**The Shawnee told the author that this came from the Prophet...."Do not kill or injure your neighbor, for it is not he that you injure; you injure yourself. Do good to him, thus adding to his days of happiness even as you then add to your own. Do not wrong or hate your neighbor; for it not he that you wrong: you wrong yourself. Rather love him, for the Great Spirit loves him, even as He loves you."

**I have heard the Cherokee story a couple times now about when the Prophet was with them. It was said that there were many tales, but most were as all the other nations. The one that was unique to the Cherokee was one in which the Healer was troubled by the events of the future. His twelve disciples (all tribes say he chose twelve for his special training!) were following him through the woods for fear any danger would come upon Him. At one point, the Healer came across a fawn that was lost in the woods. The Healer asked him where his mother was? The fawn turned his head and looked down a path. Not far away was the mother, the victim of a huge cat. She had given her life to save her young.

-----

The Healer knelt down beside the dead mother and started stroking the body. As His hand passed over the wounds, they healed up, leaving no marks. The deer then started breathing and rose. The disciples were upset at this and asked Him why he was wasting His energy on the animals. The Pale One said, "There cannot be too many good deeds. Such is the manner of compassion. A lost lamb is my Father's business, as important as saving a nation, if one need not choose between them. More precious in my Father's eyes is a good deed than the most exquisite jewel."

-----

**The "Algonquin of the Eastern Seaboard" tell they received their name for the Dawn Light from the Pale One. They wouldn't name the Prophet as He had asked them to do. They wanted to know what He was called where He grew up and He told them a name that was strange and hard to say. But they tried hard to say it: Chee-Zoos, God of the Dawn Light, basically the same as the Puants.

-----

**The Chippewa remember very well the "pale Great Master." They tell He gave them medicine lodges where the signs and emblems are secret and taken from those across the ocean. And according to the author, they keep this secret to this day.

-----

**The Prophet was known to come across a Puant city in the now known area of Oklahoma. It was the Prophet's custom to always take their established temples and change them. He would chose the twelve to teach them the priesthood and then lectured the people. This was again done here as usual. But here, the people wanted to hear about his childhood. He told them he was born across the ocean where all men had beards. Even in the legends, he told them of his virgin birth and about the bright star that shone over his city of his birth. The heavens opened up and winged beings sang chants of exquisite beauty.

”When the University of Oklahoma was digging the Spiro Mound, they found mush pottery showing winged beings singing, and also the hand with the cross through the palm. To them, He was known as Chee-Zoos, the Dawn God, and they whisper of Him about the campfires when no white man can listen. To quote the book, "The love they bear Him is beyond measurement, for well they know He watches over them, and that when their journey here is over, He will meet them in the Land of Shadows, for such was His sacred promise.

“They smoke the Sacred Peace Pipe in His memory, and blow the smoke to the four directions (sign of the cross), knowing that to each man comes his retribution, no matter how flows the river of history. Thus in great pride walks the Red Man, even though now dire poverty stalks him and starvation or hunger sits at his table. In the mask like calm of his expression there smiles a secret satisfaction, a something which to puzzled white men is entirely beyond understanding."

-----

**They tell that He always wore a long white toga, with black crosses embroidered along the bottom, and had golden sandals...

-----

*It is said the hot springs of Tacobya mark the passage of the Healer. In a canyon nearby is the hand with the T cross in it, and near this the Great Cross. It is understood that He traveled to the Havasu, raising one arm in greeting meaning "Peace and Prosperity to you". He then stopped and tapped a large rock with his staff and water gushed out of it. He drank from this sacred water and today it is called the Spring of Tacobya.

----

"Have you ever wondered about the cedar...every tribe revere it...high priests mix its shavings with the leaves of our tobacco? And why do we blow smoke across our bodies, when we are returning from the war trail? Is it not to ask His forgiveness, as was once taught by the Pale Prophet? Why do we plant these trees upon the Great Mound-those ancient histories of our cities? Was it not to warn all men that once He walked here; the Sacred One, the Miracle Worker?

"And the color of snow: among all the nations it stands for peace. Why is this so? Because He wore it, as he traveled from nation to nation He taught the people to live in peace and to speak in council, thus settling all their problems. This was His way and the way of His Father.

"Why do we raise our hands up in greeting? Because that was His sign, a tradition which we still follow.”

"Why do we use the Cross as a sacred symbol? Was it not because He wore it about the hem of His full white garment, and carried the sign on His two hands, those hands so gifted in healing?...In the Wisacoo Lodge and many others there are some who still know His secret language, but those things are being fast forgotten."


For more:

[link to www.wolflodge.org]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1555756

bsflagbsflagbsflagbsflagbsflagburnitiamwith
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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09/21/2011 10:22 PM
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Re: He Walked the Americas - Evidence of Jesus by Native Americans
It's not about attacking Mormonism.

It's about using scripture to counter false doctrine.

Using scripture to verify the beliefs of any sect.

I've seen people wind up going to hell for alcoholism and whoring. I knew these people. Two. One went there for alcoholism and the other for whoring. Their deaths back up scripture.

If a church teaches that only people who shed innocent blood after baptism are destined for outer darkness than that belief system is not scriptural. Worse than that, it encourages people to engage in alcoholism and whoring, because they will believe that they can engage in these two behaviors and not lose their lives and their salvation. Because they will believe the only sin they can commit which will cost them their lives or their salvation is shedding innocent blood. That will provide them with all the justification they need to engage in behaviors which will cost them their lives and their salvation.
 Quoting: THE PRIME PROGRAM


I'm sorry, but maybe that's best served as another topic. This topic is about the legends of the Native Americans and about the evidence of perhaps Jesus visiting this shore.

The Mormon's I've met over my life ALL abstained from alcohol and believed that adultery was a sin.
Anonymous Coward
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09/21/2011 10:23 PM
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Re: He Walked the Americas - Evidence of Jesus by Native Americans
Columbus LOL
Anonymous Coward
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09/21/2011 10:33 PM
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Re: He Walked the Americas - Evidence of Jesus by Native Americans
"And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd."
John 10:16


He Walked the Americas

Legends of the Pale Prophet from the Native Peoples of the Americas.

The legends that follow are the legends of the Healer. These legends were told by the fireside of a "saintly white teacher," who performed miracles with healing and control over the winds, waters, and other natural items. All describe his eyes as gray-green like the ocean and told stories of the future. His symbol has been woven into blankets, carved on canyon walls, put on pottery and danced in dances. His name has been given to mountains and rivers.

Though the stories are many and spread throughout the Americas, they are broken into bits and pieces, hard to follow and piece together into one tale. His name varied, most names were reflective of his control over the wind and water, as he would request each tribe to name Him as they wished, stating there was no value to a name.

Common to almost all:

*He was a white man with a beard
*He said He came from across the sea
*He would choose twelve "disciples"
*He spoke of His Father's Kingdom
*He wore a bright white garment with golden sandals
*He made references to the future
*He had control over the wind and all elements
*He had the ability to heal wounds
*His sign was the cross
*He taught love and peace
*He taught that good deeds were important
*He referred them to the Dawn Star


-----

**The Shawnee told the author that this came from the Prophet...."Do not kill or injure your neighbor, for it is not he that you injure; you injure yourself. Do good to him, thus adding to his days of happiness even as you then add to your own. Do not wrong or hate your neighbor; for it not he that you wrong: you wrong yourself. Rather love him, for the Great Spirit loves him, even as He loves you."

**I have heard the Cherokee story a couple times now about when the Prophet was with them. It was said that there were many tales, but most were as all the other nations. The one that was unique to the Cherokee was one in which the Healer was troubled by the events of the future. His twelve disciples (all tribes say he chose twelve for his special training!) were following him through the woods for fear any danger would come upon Him. At one point, the Healer came across a fawn that was lost in the woods. The Healer asked him where his mother was? The fawn turned his head and looked down a path. Not far away was the mother, the victim of a huge cat. She had given her life to save her young.

-----

The Healer knelt down beside the dead mother and started stroking the body. As His hand passed over the wounds, they healed up, leaving no marks. The deer then started breathing and rose. The disciples were upset at this and asked Him why he was wasting His energy on the animals. The Pale One said, "There cannot be too many good deeds. Such is the manner of compassion. A lost lamb is my Father's business, as important as saving a nation, if one need not choose between them. More precious in my Father's eyes is a good deed than the most exquisite jewel."

-----

**The "Algonquin of the Eastern Seaboard" tell they received their name for the Dawn Light from the Pale One. They wouldn't name the Prophet as He had asked them to do. They wanted to know what He was called where He grew up and He told them a name that was strange and hard to say. But they tried hard to say it: Chee-Zoos, God of the Dawn Light, basically the same as the Puants.

-----

**The Chippewa remember very well the "pale Great Master." They tell He gave them medicine lodges where the signs and emblems are secret and taken from those across the ocean. And according to the author, they keep this secret to this day.

-----

**The Prophet was known to come across a Puant city in the now known area of Oklahoma. It was the Prophet's custom to always take their established temples and change them. He would chose the twelve to teach them the priesthood and then lectured the people. This was again done here as usual. But here, the people wanted to hear about his childhood. He told them he was born across the ocean where all men had beards. Even in the legends, he told them of his virgin birth and about the bright star that shone over his city of his birth. The heavens opened up and winged beings sang chants of exquisite beauty.

”When the University of Oklahoma was digging the Spiro Mound, they found mush pottery showing winged beings singing, and also the hand with the cross through the palm. To them, He was known as Chee-Zoos, the Dawn God, and they whisper of Him about the campfires when no white man can listen. To quote the book, "The love they bear Him is beyond measurement, for well they know He watches over them, and that when their journey here is over, He will meet them in the Land of Shadows, for such was His sacred promise.

“They smoke the Sacred Peace Pipe in His memory, and blow the smoke to the four directions (sign of the cross), knowing that to each man comes his retribution, no matter how flows the river of history. Thus in great pride walks the Red Man, even though now dire poverty stalks him and starvation or hunger sits at his table. In the mask like calm of his expression there smiles a secret satisfaction, a something which to puzzled white men is entirely beyond understanding."

-----

**They tell that He always wore a long white toga, with black crosses embroidered along the bottom, and had golden sandals...

-----

*It is said the hot springs of Tacobya mark the passage of the Healer. In a canyon nearby is the hand with the T cross in it, and near this the Great Cross. It is understood that He traveled to the Havasu, raising one arm in greeting meaning "Peace and Prosperity to you". He then stopped and tapped a large rock with his staff and water gushed out of it. He drank from this sacred water and today it is called the Spring of Tacobya.

----

"Have you ever wondered about the cedar...every tribe revere it...high priests mix its shavings with the leaves of our tobacco? And why do we blow smoke across our bodies, when we are returning from the war trail? Is it not to ask His forgiveness, as was once taught by the Pale Prophet? Why do we plant these trees upon the Great Mound-those ancient histories of our cities? Was it not to warn all men that once He walked here; the Sacred One, the Miracle Worker?

"And the color of snow: among all the nations it stands for peace. Why is this so? Because He wore it, as he traveled from nation to nation He taught the people to live in peace and to speak in council, thus settling all their problems. This was His way and the way of His Father.

"Why do we raise our hands up in greeting? Because that was His sign, a tradition which we still follow.”

"Why do we use the Cross as a sacred symbol? Was it not because He wore it about the hem of His full white garment, and carried the sign on His two hands, those hands so gifted in healing?...In the Wisacoo Lodge and many others there are some who still know His secret language, but those things are being fast forgotten."


For more:

[link to www.wolflodge.org]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1555756


Damn, more ridiculous fairytale stories of mystical men in the sky. Written by people that thought painting your face made you stronger.
MyDogFred

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09/21/2011 10:48 PM
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Re: He Walked the Americas - Evidence of Jesus by Native Americans
[If Jesus really did exist, he would have been neither white or black, and he certainly wouldn't have been called pale by the native Americans:

[link to www.popularmechanics.com]

How odd. I wasn't aware that Popular Mechanics was Holy Writ!
Anonymous Coward
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09/21/2011 10:50 PM
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Re: He Walked the Americas - Evidence of Jesus by Native Americans
Wow, I"m facinated and I had no idea such a book even existed! I just ordered a copy on ebay and I can't wait to read it.

Thanks OP! Excellent post!!!!

hf
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


LoL.....
Anonymous Coward
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09/21/2011 10:56 PM
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Re: He Walked the Americas - Evidence of Jesus by Native Americans
Jesus Christ never existed, sorry to burst all your guys' bubbles. That being said, the messages of "Jesus" and many of the messages in the bible itself, while not literal historical events, due hold good values and lessons to be learned. They, however, are works of fiction.

It is sad to see that people in this day and age, with the amount of information readily available to anyone, still believe these stories as historical fact. There is no proof whatsoever that "Jesus" ever existed, outside of the bible.
Anonymous Coward
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09/21/2011 10:57 PM
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Re: He Walked the Americas - Evidence of Jesus by Native Americans
Jesus Christ never existed, sorry to burst all your guys' bubbles. That being said, the messages of "Jesus" and many of the messages in the bible itself, while not literal historical events, do hold good values and lessons to be learned. They, however, are works of fiction.

It is sad to see that people in this day and age, with the amount of information readily available to anyone, still believe these stories as historical fact. There is no proof whatsoever that "Jesus" ever existed, outside of the bible.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1468685


fixed that, silly error
Anonymous Coward
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09/21/2011 11:02 PM
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Re: He Walked the Americas - Evidence of Jesus by Native Americans
BULLSHIT!! Christians in their wonderful enlightenment, are directly responsible for nearly all of the Indian Genocides and horrors inflicted on those poor native peoples. They (Christians) killed more Indians, women and children, stole more land, lied more often, raped, murdered and pillaged in the name of God that would even make ole Adolph blush. Don't forget lovely Christian folks and their hospitality, Small pox in blankets, trail of tears, etc, etc, ad nauseum. You "jesustards" will never find the truth because your blinded by the biggest lie ever told.

If you researched half as much as you preached, if you opened your mind as much as you condemned others, you just might find something out. But you'll blindly jump into any lie and spout bible phrases, (which by the way, you cant even decipher the encoded meanings of those), like a complete and utter fucktard about stupid shit like this. Its obvious some worthless, brainwashed, Christian fool in their desire to credit Jesus with something else that's not, provable, scientific, with no facts what so ever, armed with just a prayer, PLAGERIZED, PLAGERIZED (Like most of the bible is plagiarized from earlier civilizations) the legends of the South American gods, Quetzalcoatl and Viacocha to name a few.

So fuckoff2
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1538171


And the biggest LIE ever told by the deceivers is that the Christians killed others! No Christian who willingly kills others will go to Heaven unless they fully repent and God sees the truthfulness of what's in their heart. Just as today, but even worse, you have wolves in sheep's clothing
walking around pretending to be Christian. Please. Who the heck to you think is off killing others in these fabricated wars? Who do you think is committing the fraud? Who do you think is spreading the lies and deception? Who do you think is taking away our jobs and our homes? NOT CHRISTIANS.

"if you opened your mind as much as you condemned others, you just might find something out"

So sad. You cannot know the Truth until you truly know God and understand His message. When you know God, you will then be awakened and complete. You will then see. You will then know.

The hatred I see in your words reveals the level of hatred in your heart. Which is exactly the opposite of what God wants for you.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1555756


And what God are you talking about? The God of The Crusades, The Spanish Inquisition, The Aztec Genocide, The American Indian genocide, The god of the Witch hunts? Which One? Where was Jesus on 911? Where is Jesus while millions of children starve around this planet? Where was Jesus when they stacked the corpses into Pits by the Catholic Zealots in the name of God!! Where is this all powerful all knowing entity???

Mt 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea

Except NOW, millions of children suffer everyday and all Christians can say is "He has a plan for you" Time for a new plan asshole.

Blinded by your arrogance I guess your faith is the only faith. What about Islam, Judaism, Buddhismm, Hinduism, Link to a larger list--> [link to simple.wikipedia.org]

I guess all these billions of heathens will just have to burn in hell for eternity. Thats compassion.

ahole
CodyOutlaw

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09/21/2011 11:04 PM
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Re: He Walked the Americas - Evidence of Jesus by Native Americans
I can see there are a lot of devout Christians here - it would do your Lord proud if you would actually research this kind of material yourself, check the qualifications of the authors, try to find any evidence in the myths themselves.

Blindly believing things just because someone wrote them down in a book does your religion, your faith, and your God a huge diservice. I would think you'd owe Him better than that.

He is not my God, and I'd still show him far more respect than you do.

Use your intellect. Be discerning.
He was.
Anonymous Coward
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09/21/2011 11:06 PM
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Re: He Walked the Americas - Evidence of Jesus by Native Americans
The jesus was a white man?!?!?

THATS FUCKING RACEST!!!
Anonymous Coward
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09/21/2011 11:24 PM
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Re: He Walked the Americas - Evidence of Jesus by Native Americans
Jesus Christ never existed, sorry to burst all your guys' bubbles. That being said, the messages of "Jesus" and many of the messages in the bible itself, while not literal historical events, due hold good values and lessons to be learned. They, however, are works of fiction.

It is sad to see that people in this day and age, with the amount of information readily available to anyone, still believe these stories as historical fact. There is no proof whatsoever that "Jesus" ever existed, outside of the bible.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1468685


I am going to be brief with you because to do otherwise will only complicate the matter. I used to hold the same beliefs that you shared here. It is my word of truth. I am no longer of the same belief. You have been lied to since your birth by a very organized and cleverly built system of lies by the great deceiver. I am only a man but, I have spent countless hours on both sides of this matter. I have served both sides. I can tell you from my heart only this plea. God is real. Jesus walked the face the of this earth for a reason. That reason was you. He has laid a simple plan for your life. You have an option of eternity in your Fathers presence. And then there is all other options that fall WAY short of this one. It is YOUR eternity to decide. Not mine. Not this forum. No one but you friend. A human who does not HONESTLY look into the WHOLE TRUTH by in depth STUDY will not know the best choice. You cannot go on others words (myself included). You can only seek out your truth in your own heart by STUDYING THE WORD of both. The truth will indeed lead you to a new freedom in which this world becomes easy to bear. He is and always will be your Savior, when called upon. He awaits you. The Truth
Anonymous Coward
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09/21/2011 11:35 PM
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Re: He Walked the Americas - Evidence of Jesus by Native Americans
It could be Cain as well.

"Cain lay with his wife, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Enoch. Cain was then building a city, and he named it after his son Enoch."

T enoch itlan = Tenochitlan is the city of enoch
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1395933


Or, it could be the other Enoch, the one who some say may be one of the coming two witnesses. He avoided the mortal death ascribed to Adam's other descendants, for He was taken by God.

"And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him"
Genesis 5:24
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1555756


What if Cain is Jesus? Cain's punishment is immortality.

"Doomed to be a wanderer and a fugitive in the earth, he went forth into the “land of Nod,” i.e., the land of “exile”, which is said to have been in the “east of Eden,” and there he built a city, the first we read of, and called it after his son's name, Enoch."
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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Re: He Walked the Americas - Evidence of Jesus by Native Americans
BULLSHIT!! Christians in their wonderful enlightenment, are directly responsible for nearly all of the Indian Genocides and horrors inflicted on those poor native peoples. They (Christians) killed more Indians, women and children, stole more land, lied more often, raped, murdered and pillaged in the name of God that would even make ole Adolph blush. Don't forget lovely Christian folks and their hospitality, Small pox in blankets, trail of tears, etc, etc, ad nauseum. You "jesustards" will never find the truth because your blinded by the biggest lie ever told.

If you researched half as much as you preached, if you opened your mind as much as you condemned others, you just might find something out. But you'll blindly jump into any lie and spout bible phrases, (which by the way, you cant even decipher the encoded meanings of those), like a complete and utter fucktard about stupid shit like this. Its obvious some worthless, brainwashed, Christian fool in their desire to credit Jesus with something else that's not, provable, scientific, with no facts what so ever, armed with just a prayer, PLAGERIZED, PLAGERIZED (Like most of the bible is plagiarized from earlier civilizations) the legends of the South American gods, Quetzalcoatl and Viacocha to name a few.

So fuckoff2
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1538171


And the biggest LIE ever told by the deceivers is that the Christians killed others! No Christian who willingly kills others will go to Heaven unless they fully repent and God sees the truthfulness of what's in their heart. Just as today, but even worse, you have wolves in sheep's clothing
walking around pretending to be Christian. Please. Who the heck to you think is off killing others in these fabricated wars? Who do you think is committing the fraud? Who do you think is spreading the lies and deception? Who do you think is taking away our jobs and our homes? NOT CHRISTIANS.

"if you opened your mind as much as you condemned others, you just might find something out"

So sad. You cannot know the Truth until you truly know God and understand His message. When you know God, you will then be awakened and complete. You will then see. You will then know.

The hatred I see in your words reveals the level of hatred in your heart. Which is exactly the opposite of what God wants for you.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1555756


And what God are you talking about? The God of The Crusades, The Spanish Inquisition, The Aztec Genocide, The American Indian genocide, The god of the Witch hunts? Which One? Where was Jesus on 911? Where is Jesus while millions of children starve around this planet? Where was Jesus when they stacked the corpses into Pits by the Catholic Zealots in the name of God!! Where is this all powerful all knowing entity???

Mt 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea

Except NOW, millions of children suffer everyday and all Christians can say is "He has a plan for you" Time for a new plan asshole.

Blinded by your arrogance I guess your faith is the only faith. What about Islam, Judaism, Buddhismm, Hinduism, Link to a larger list--> [link to simple.wikipedia.org]

I guess all these billions of heathens will just have to burn in hell for eternity. Thats compassion.

ahole
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1538171



"I guess all these billions of heathens will just have to burn in hell for eternity. Thats compassion."

You have a choice. It's freely given; you can accept it or reject it.

------

"What God?"

God the Creator. The God of Love and Righteousness. The God who sent His only begotten Son to this Earth to remind us of His message.

"For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul."
Leviticus 17:11

"Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot."
1 Peter 1:18,19

------

"Except NOW, millions of children suffer everyday and all Christians can say is "He has a plan for you" Time for a new plan asshole."

Caused by evil men, not God.

------

"Where was Jesus on 911?"

Where were our leaders? Oh that's right - reading a book about GOATS to children - a big clue!

------


"Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God."
3 John 1:11

"They said, Turn you again now every one from his evil way, and from the evil of your doings, and dwell in the land that the LORD has given to you and to your fathers for ever and ever: And go not after other gods to serve them, and to worship them, and provoke me not to anger with the works of your hands; and I will do you no hurt."
Jeremiah 25:5-6

"The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil."
John 7:7
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 1555756
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09/21/2011 11:55 PM
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Re: He Walked the Americas - Evidence of Jesus by Native Americans
Jesus Christ never existed, sorry to burst all your guys' bubbles. That being said, the messages of "Jesus" and many of the messages in the bible itself, while not literal historical events, due hold good values and lessons to be learned. They, however, are works of fiction.

It is sad to see that people in this day and age, with the amount of information readily available to anyone, still believe these stories as historical fact. There is no proof whatsoever that "Jesus" ever existed, outside of the bible.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1468685


I am going to be brief with you because to do otherwise will only complicate the matter. I used to hold the same beliefs that you shared here. It is my word of truth. I am no longer of the same belief. You have been lied to since your birth by a very organized and cleverly built system of lies by the great deceiver. I am only a man but, I have spent countless hours on both sides of this matter. I have served both sides. I can tell you from my heart only this plea. God is real. Jesus walked the face the of this earth for a reason. That reason was you. He has laid a simple plan for your life. You have an option of eternity in your Fathers presence. And then there is all other options that fall WAY short of this one. It is YOUR eternity to decide. Not mine. Not this forum. No one but you friend. A human who does not HONESTLY look into the WHOLE TRUTH by in depth STUDY will not know the best choice. You cannot go on others words (myself included). You can only seek out your truth in your own heart by STUDYING THE WORD of both. The truth will indeed lead you to a new freedom in which this world becomes easy to bear. He is and always will be your Savior, when called upon. He awaits you. The Truth
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1225332



So beautifully stated.

"You have been lied to since your birth by a very organized and cleverly built system of lies by the great deceiver. I am only a man but, I have spent countless hours on both sides of this matter. I have served both sides. I can tell you from my heart only this plea. God is real. Jesus walked the face the of this earth for a reason. That reason was you. He has laid a simple plan for your life. You have an option of eternity in your Fathers presence."

Until this summer, I never really contemplated God on any serious level. I did believe in Heaven and Hell, but I just kind of figured I was a speck of sand in the universe and I was generally OK with that. I was jaded by people who talked God and yet they acted like hypocrites! Overall, I've lived a decent life and tried to never hurt others. Everything changed this summer. Jesus visited on 6/11. He was at my door and then He came in and leaned down and put His arms around me. I awoke instantly but refused to open my eyes out of terror. At first I thought it was a burglar, but then realized a person wouldn't hug me to death. My eyes remained tightly closed until the weight of his overlapping arm on mine slowly faded away.

Now, this same thing happened twice previously in my life. And still, I didn't "think", I didn't turn towards Him.

And now I can SEE...I can SEE the evil. I can SEE the hatred in men's hearts. I can SEE the deception. I can SEE all of the lies that were placed in our path...all of the stones for us to trip over.

But above all else, I can SEE the love He has for us...

I can SEE that God is REAL.

I shed many, many tears out of joy...but many out of sadness. 44 years of not knowing.
Anonymous Coward
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09/21/2011 11:56 PM
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Re: He Walked the Americas - Evidence of Jesus by Native Americans
"I guess all these billions of heathens will just have to burn in hell for eternity. Thats compassion."

You have a choice. It's freely given; you can accept it or reject it.

------





 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1555756


It would be a contradiction of Mormon doctrine to suggest that simply by rejecting Mormonism that would cause a heathen to burn in hell.

According to Mormonism only people who shed innocent blood after baptism go to outer darkness.
Anonymous Coward
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09/22/2011 12:11 AM
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Re: He Walked the Americas - Evidence of Jesus by Native Americans
"I guess all these billions of heathens will just have to burn in hell for eternity. Thats compassion."

You have a choice. It's freely given; you can accept it or reject it.

------





 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1555756


It would be a contradiction of Mormon doctrine to suggest that simply by rejecting Mormonism that would cause a heathen to burn in hell.

According to Mormonism only people who shed innocent blood after baptism go to outer darkness.
 Quoting: THE PRIME PROGRAM


BRING IT ON!!!
rumble
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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09/22/2011 12:14 AM
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Re: He Walked the Americas - Evidence of Jesus by Native Americans
I can see there are a lot of devout Christians here - it would do your Lord proud if you would actually research this kind of material yourself, check the qualifications of the authors, try to find any evidence in the myths themselves.

Blindly believing things just because someone wrote them down in a book does your religion, your faith, and your God a huge diservice. I would think you'd owe Him better than that.

He is not my God, and I'd still show him far more respect than you do.

Use your intellect. Be discerning.
He was.
 Quoting: CodyOutlaw


You should post that on the alien, matrix, satan and new age threads.

As with anything, people should research and study.

Our Lord however, walked this Earth. As another poster said it:

"I am going to be brief with you because to do otherwise will only complicate the matter. I used to hold the same beliefs that you shared here. It is my word of truth. I am no longer of the same belief. You have been lied to since your birth by a very organized and cleverly built system of lies by the great deceiver. I am only a man but, I have spent countless hours on both sides of this matter. I have served both sides. I can tell you from my heart only this plea. God is real. Jesus walked the face the of this earth for a reason. That reason was you. He has laid a simple plan for your life. You have an option of eternity in your Fathers presence. And then there is all other options that fall WAY short of this one. It is YOUR eternity to decide. Not mine. Not this forum. No one but you friend. A human who does not HONESTLY look into the WHOLE TRUTH by in depth STUDY will not know the best choice. You cannot go on others words (myself included). You can only seek out your truth in your own heart by STUDYING THE WORD of both. The truth will indeed lead you to a new freedom in which this world becomes easy to bear. He is and always will be your Savior, when called upon. He awaits you. The Truth"
ST In BG
User ID: 1515181
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09/22/2011 12:24 AM
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Re: He Walked the Americas - Evidence of Jesus by Native Americans
Greetings:

Not "Jesus" ... Which Was Fiction On Paper ... But ... Apollonius Of Tyana ... An "Essene" ... Who Traveled Throughout The World With His Entourage ... His Followers !!

Wherever He Went ... He Was Called/Referred To By A Different "Name" ... But NEVER "Jesus" !!

Farewell For Now !!

ST In BG





GLP