SHTF .357 mag lever or .44 mag lever

and i dont believe anything will unfold as i believe it will
thats why i own what i own. yep id like to own an ak,ar fnfal but id rather put that money into extra food and other more useable preps.

ive got one good long rifle it uses the same ammo as
my sidearm its more suitable for hunting than an ak
its less suitable for fighting a war

if your silly enough to let yourself stay in a location
where a battle rifle is the better choice thats your problem

yes its not 100% but i do expect to controll the dynamic
to some extent it may not develop as i think it will
but in all likelyhood it will be similar.

and for that a lever action is a better choice than a battle rifle and so for that reason its what i have put my limited funds into.

go with the 44

the lever action rifle is the most tested and reliable assault rifle ever made.

i think jake you have ideas about having to protect your
family or comunity from zombie raiders JBT etc or perhaps having to fight your way to some safe location.

Im already in a safe location I made the move a long time ago what I mostly need is long term usability of a firearm
when I can no longer buy amunition,reloading supplies
or spare parts.

mostly for hunting and self defense from 4 legged critters.

I'm in a relatively safe place. But there is no reason to hinder yourself on weaponry. Semi-Auto rifles are no more expensive than lever actions. They're cheaper to feed, and give you more logistical advantages.

How? What can you do with your lever action, that I cannot do with a battle rifle?

What are the disadvantages of having a battle rifle or carbine?

The weight is marginal. Hell, if I only had one magazine of 30 rounds in the well, it will still weight the same as your lever action, and I'd still have the ability to fire 30 rounds with no manual intervention.

I can provide you a massive list of things you cannot do with a lever action.

Last Edited by Jake101 on 09/30/2011 01:10 PM

^^^^This^^^^^^

Also might want to look into smokeless muzzle loaders, If you can get any kind of powder at all, black or smokeless and have the primers, you are good to go.

[link to www.sav10ml.com]

when i must reload with lead bullets and black powder
thats when your ak will be a hinderance.

when im left with nothing more than what i can carry thats
when id rather have my lever action that you dont understand why would not surprise me but my first sentence
should give you a clue.

anything task you can do with a ak can be performed with a lever action in some cases not as well like i already said
the lever action is not as good at fighting a battle.

but it is better for hunting and its also not looked on
in the same light as the ak as an "assault weapon" which
can also be important in some states and under conditions
such as a gun ban like what occured in australia.

Elmer Keith killed a mule deer at 600 yards with a 8.5 barrel 44 mag pistol, granted 99% of people couldn't make that shot ever, but the point is, the pistol was that accurate. A lever action rifle is going to be at least as accurate A AK couldn't hit a Trex at 600 yards.

Thats one thing a lever can do, that a AK can't
You can not top off your mag, without dropping it, a lever can be topped off at any time.
You keep talking about good ammo, have you priced good ammo? How much are you going to stock pile? Not much, so your accuracy is going to be wolf level. Russian ammo in hollow points don't expand, Russian ammo in soft points do, FMJ doesn't. So soft points is your only real choice of expanding ammunition. The lever actually can shoot expanding hollow points, cheaply. Not the 1.00 to 2.00 a round ammunition.

Oh and you better hope you don't have corrosive ammo, if you are buying surplus cans, the primers are corrosive. If you can't clean the gun thoroughly say good bye to that AK.

Your AK can also not share ammo with anything but a custom pistol, and even so .44mag will bring down a bear in pistol form, 7.62x39 will be varmit ammo in a pistol.

The AK will automatically make you look more threatening, some scared person will be much more likely to put a round in the back of your head, than with a hunting gun. To gun people it won't, to people educated by the media it will. Remember a lot of people have .22's and shotguns in the house. That doesn't mean they are very involved in the gun scene. Just as a lot of people pick their cars based on looks, and have no clue what the difference between a 4 banger and a 6 banger is. Those people may very well panic, with flash backs from hollywood movies when the man with the AK mowed down a mob of people.

THIS^^^^
I plan on being in a place I don't need a battle rifle.
I have a mini 14 but that's it. The rest of my firearms are hunting rifles, double barrel hunting shotguns, etc....

30-30 is slightly better than 7.62x39. This is proof of where a lever is better than your ak...

A better comparison indicator for me, of where a handloaded round is in the scale of killing ability...is to compare it’s standing against other rounds without the over rated muzzle energy figures. If you multiply the velocity times the bullet weight, and then divide by 7000 (number of grains in a lb, it’s the old Keith method) you get a better picture of actual power/killing levels compared to other rounds. 2000 X 275 div 7000 = KS(Killing Scale) of 79 for this 45 long Colt load from the Rossi 1892. A 44 magnum Ruger revolver with a 275 grain (same nose shape) cast WFN bullet at 1400 FPS velocity reaches a level of KS 55, and that’s a heavy handgun load that’s harvests larger medium game very well.

A 30-30 with a 170 gr bullet at 2200 FPS gives a level of power ranking at KS 53.4... ahh yes dear reader, the 44 mag from a long gun really does have more power at 100 yards than a 30-30/170 commercial load. Of course the 44 mag/275 gr. load above from a rifle, at basically the same velocity as the 275 gr./45 long Colt from a rifle has the same killing level potential as the 45 long Colt. There are difficulties with all measuring methods of bullet energy and killing ability since so much more is involved than just velocity and weight...but this works for me when we are comparing the same bullet shape/content and construct with changes in weight or velocity.

The neat thing about this method is you can take the down range velocities all the way out to your longest range and compare them with the down range velocities of other rounds, calibers and see the changes compared to each other. The 45 long Colt at 100 yards has slowed to 1600 FPS and the killing level has dropped to almost KS of 63 from 79. Where the 30-30 load has dropped to 1930FPS to a KS 46 from 53.4.....that should make a few yell ‘foul...can’t be’, but it is! And from my use of these 45 loads in the field for years on large game....I can tell you it is.....! As many gunwriters have stated over the years, a 44 mag or heavy loaded 45 long Colt fired from a rifle is more powerful than a 30-30 at 100 yards....actually they are more powerful than the great 30-30, at a lot further than 100 yards.....

So the next time someone states the 44 mag and 45 long Colt from rifles only has an advantage over the 30-30 under 100 yards...show him the error of his reality. But remember bullet drop with the larger calibers, is more than the 308 calibers ....But that never bothered me....mainly because I started rifle shooting without scopes and learned how to compensate....scopes were far from being seen, much less using them, when we were boys. (Some like to say so was smokeless powder, but I’m not that old).

[link to www.leverguns.com]

A lever action is going to be 2-3 MOA. Same as an AK, unless it's a tricked out lever, in which case why would compare a tricked out lever action to a regular AK? I can accurize an AK, as well. Regardless, there are other battle rifles that can pull off 1MOA you are neglecting to acknowlege.



The difference being you HAVE to top off. Another self-made limitation.



Yes, a $2.50 a box for brass cased Yugo which WILL make 2-3MOA without a single issue. And I have plenty.

Hotshot for 4 dollars a box.

Or Norinco, steel core for 25-35 cents a round.

These are all good ammo.

You have no clue what you're talking about here.



The only corrosive 7,62x39 is Yugoslavian. Just to clear something up here, I'm a defense contractor. I'm a salesman of equipment and small arms. Don't presume to tell me things like that. Also, the corrosion faction is irrelevant on AK with a Chromelined barrel. The only part of an AK that will rust is the gas tube, which I assume you understand why that's irrelevant?

Regardless, again, you're neglecting other battle rifles if this is such an issue to you.



This is irrelevant. I could carry a 44 mag pistol if this was an issue to me.




It is nearly never a bad idea to look threatening. And if I were in a situation where I didn't want to look threatening, I would fold the stock, and place it in my backpack.

Last Edited by Jake101 on 09/30/2011 08:31 PM

hey i just thought of another advantage the 45 colt has over the 44 magnum i think???

you can take 303 british, 30 30 i think as well? and fireform the case cut it down and it will work for a 45 colt.

dont think you can do that with a 44 magnum but not sure

hehe a defense contractor hey well that explains a lot
what are you selling ak,s for the russians lol.

hell you could be supplying plastic cups or porta loos and call yourself a defense contractor lol but that does not
give you any credibility for what we civilians use for hunting or self defense.


if you carry a 44 magnum as your sidearm then you need to carry different ammo then your ak uses so its not irrelevant.

You're all making giant assumptions for weapons platforms you have no clue about. Anyone with a bit of knowledge of situations outside hog hunting will tell you that you are wrong, and all the "facts" you've stated are garbage.

And why does it matter if my sidearm uses a different sort of ammo than my primary? A sidearm is for retreating. Not for fighting.

Yeah sure, MOA AK. Not with that pressed receiver, even if you have a milled receiver, the gas system is not conductive to accuracy. Mosin Nagants can be made accurate, AKs 2-3 moa is accurate.



Only a limitation to spray and pray.


Not good hunting ammo.


Not true, most old military surplus ammo is corrosive. Modern commercial ammo like, wolf and brown bear is not.

Chrome lined chambers does not prevent rust, it helps to slow it down, but it will still rust in time.

From ak47.net...
Most of the available 7.62x39 ammo is corrosive and the accuracy varies quite a bit from lot to lot (Mf’g. lot, that is). If your rifle doesn’t group well with one batch, try another lot... it may shoot one hole groups with the next batch. It still is a very fine cartridge in the .30-30 power class with a usable range of up to 300 yards and a good deal cheaper than .30-30 ammo as well. Certainly no better deal can be had than the SKS rifle on today’s market for the money!!!
[link to www.ak-47.net]

Corrosive ammo is a problem if you can not clean the gun, IE no cleaning supplies available.


Then I am ahead of you again.

If you say so.

hehe so if you want to play im a defense contractor i know what im talking about lol

Then i was a defense contractor teaching wilderness survival
and adventure training so i know more than you lol

You're WRONG.

Absolutely, completely wrong.

Hungarian, Finnish, West German, South African, Russian, Chinese, Korean, Romanian, Yugoslavia and Czech (and the Baltic countries, and some in Venezuela) are the countries that loaded surplus 7,62x39.

ONLY Yugoslavian is corrosive. You are wrong, and ignorant. Sorry you choose to attack a platform you have demonstrated dozens of times you know nothing about.

Not even worth reading the rest of what you posted, because now it's painfully obvious you're not even slightly knowledgeable about the AK or variants.

Woe to your students.

lol id expect you would think so, my job after all was to keep them alive when and after tshtf

I doubt that very much.

I either have or have access to all the neat little toys in the world just about.....

I don't care much for automatics. Wheel gun. Lever or bolt and even pump.

Treat every round like it's your last, and remember, if you couldn't handle the situation with 6 rounds, then you should have avoided it all together.

The most versatile weapon this world has is a shotgun.

And I don't care how far away someone is, a shotgun is respected. And you don't know till it's to late what manner of ammo they are using.

This is definitely true. A shotgun is vital in any preparation setup. If I could only choose one gun, it would be a 12ga.

this is a prime example of the flaw in your thinking

mainly you are thinking like a soldier nothing wrong
if that if your fighting a war but we dont intend to
be fighting a war if we can at all avoid it.

No, it's not just war fighting. It's self-defense. A pistol is an inferior combat implement. If you are forced to abandon your long arm for ANY REASON you need to fall back, unless there are extenuating circumstances or a tactical reason not to.

A 9mm will take small/medium game. I know, because I've done it. Particularly Hirtenberger +p+

If it's a field of battle, then the best rounds and weapons in the world is those which your enemies are using against you.

Wow, just wow.
The spam cans of 7.62x54r Russian made is corrosive. Wanna guess why? Its before Russia switched to non corrosive ammo. 7.62x39 was made when Russia still made corrosive primers. DUH. Some of it is still around. You are no arms dealer, any arms dealer would know this.

7.62x39mm Ammunition: This cartridge was one of the first successful modern military battle rifle cartridges in the world. It continued the .30 caliber trend in Russian bore diameter weapons (during WW II all of the Russian small arms used .30 cal. barrels, even their pistols. Think of the savings in barrel making equipment costs, not to mention the ammunition manufacturing savings). Based loosely on a German design of nearly the same time, the 7.62x39 was adopted in 1943 but not manufactured for a new rifle design until after WW II was concluded.

[link to www.ak-47.net]

So from 1943 to I think it was 1980 something every 7.62x39 military round russia made was CORROSIVE. If you read through the source there, they have mention of a chrome lined barrel rusting in a week!

Educate yourself.

I've dropped deer with a .44 revolver at distances I wouldn't even take the shot with a .357. Size matters. That's all I have to say about that.

No it WAS NOT. Absolutely was not. You are 100% wrong in every way. No available 7,62x39 surplus is corrosive other than Yugoslavian. Go find some.

Find me some corrosive 7,62x39 corrosive ammo other than Yugo.

ETA: You're cutting and pasting for a site. It's wrong. Find me evidence of this from a retailer, or any other ammo dealer.

Last Edited by Jake101 on 09/30/2011 09:47 PM

aw crikey you just dont get it do you we dont want to play soldier with you.

we want to be able to hunt to feed our families and if need
be use those same hunting tools to defend our families if need be thats it.

anyone with common sense is already out of the city or in an area where the ability to hunt takes a much greater importance than the need for a semi auto weapon with a high cap magazine