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Calling all Great Minds: A discussion on Reality

 
Anonymous Coward
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01/28/2012 01:08 PM
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Re: Calling all Great Minds: A discussion on Reality
You mentioned that reality = math.

But wouldn't maths exist entirely in one's perception?
 Quoting: Chaol


Not the way I see it, as if there is one then adding another will make two. Apparently, in your view, must there be an entity to perceive that there are two. In that sense, it is inarguable that you are correct.
I disagree. In my view, no entity is required for the existence of the two. For instance, there may be several hundred dimensions, as were. Do they not exist because we cannot perceive them?
However, for me to answer the question, I was required to add qualifiers. This is what led to my stating that reality = math. Reality is a variable. Variables exist in algebra. Algebra is a math.
My best answer. :)
Anonymous Coward
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01/28/2012 01:09 PM
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Re: Calling all Great Minds: A discussion on Reality
Sorry, typo. Should read "as IT were".
Chaol (OP)

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01/28/2012 01:27 PM
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Re: Calling all Great Minds: A discussion on Reality
Wouldn't you then need evidence for the hypothesis that reality = math?

If so, where would the evidence come from?

Is it possible there is no evidence?
Anonymous Coward
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01/28/2012 03:41 PM
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Re: Calling all Great Minds: A discussion on Reality
Wouldn't you then need evidence for the hypothesis that reality = math?

If so, where would the evidence come from?

Is it possible there is no evidence?
 Quoting: Chaol


The evidence could not arise anywhere but your own perspective/perception.
Wiznick

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01/28/2012 04:19 PM
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Re: Calling all Great Minds: A discussion on Reality
The true nature of existence is that to which existence is irrelevant.

Nothing is without existence.
It is wholly experiencing your perceptions about yourself.
Existence is within nothing.
By understanding your perceptions you remember what is true. ........etc......

 Quoting: Chaol


Beautifully put Chaol - reminds me of the Tao

My summary in MA would be:

1. The Ultimate Truth is that there is no Ultimate Truth - and that's the Ultimate Truth.
2. The only Absolute is the Absolute Absence of Absolutes.

With Great Respect cool2
Chaol (OP)

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01/28/2012 09:12 PM
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Re: Calling all Great Minds: A discussion on Reality
Perhaps it is there, but it is beyond perception.

When we try to perceive something that is beyond perception it seems infinite and ever-changing.

We try to grasp something that isn't there, first slowly then faster and faster with great purpose, creating a small tornado in the process.

Then we think, "Okay, that is something!"

Then the tornado, along with our hands, creates something else. Eventually we end up with what seems to be a complete universe.

When really we didn't actually perceive it to begin with.

Last Edited by Chaol on 01/28/2012 10:11 PM
JATMON

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01/28/2012 09:26 PM
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Re: Calling all Great Minds: A discussion on Reality
Those who may know, please respond:


Obviously there could be no creation of matter without energy. Right?

So, energy precedes matter. But what "form" does energy take, if it precedes matter? What contains energy? How does it exist without matter?

How is energy expressed with no form?
Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid,
it is true that most stupid people are conservative.

John Stuart Mill
************
It's much harder to be a liberal than a conservative. Why?
Because it is easier to give someone the finger than a helping hand.
Mike Royko
Chaol (OP)

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01/28/2012 10:10 PM
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Re: Calling all Great Minds: A discussion on Reality
@JATMON

If the answer is not obvious to our perspective, let's start with the assumption rather than the question.

There is, "no creation of matter without energy", as is stated.

We are assuming that there is creation, matter, and energy. Further, we are assuming that matter can be created and is created, matter can exist separately from energy and is separate, and matter needs energy to be created.

We can make the above assumptions and (currently) arrive at no answer or we can start with an other assumption and see where it takes us.

Let's assume that creation, matter, and energy are not separate but something that we perceive as being separate.

(We can safely assume that we perceive them as being separate because of our assumptions. Outside of our perception we do not know if they are separate. Let us further assume that we cannot know of anything beyond our current perception and thus can only safely assume that our perception is all that exists.)

So in that case our answers are thus:

1) But what "form" does energy take, if it precedes matter? [Irrelevant]

2) What contains energy? [Our perspective does, if it is indeed separate from energy]

3) How does it exist without matter? [Irrelevant]

4) How is energy expressed with no form? [If we can perceive it, it already has form. Although we don't know if any form that exists is real or not.]

Of course, we don't know if this line of reasoning is true. But because it makes less unverifiable assumptions it can be reasoned that it is something that may have more of an answer for us than something else where no answer is obvious.

It's not sexy, but it could work.

Last Edited by Chaol on 01/28/2012 10:22 PM
Ozicell

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01/28/2012 10:18 PM

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Re: Calling all Great Minds: A discussion on Reality
Reality exists in the subjective perception of the moment. As 'The Moment' is not quantifiable, it is equally true to say that ‘The Moment is also eternal and infinite in nature!

Last Edited by Ozicell on 01/28/2012 10:18 PM
That which is - has already been, And what is to be - has already been. Quote: King Solomon.
Chaol (OP)

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01/28/2012 10:22 PM
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Re: Calling all Great Minds: A discussion on Reality
And so it is, Ozicell :)
Chaol (OP)

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01/28/2012 10:30 PM
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Re: Calling all Great Minds: A discussion on Reality
@JATMON

If there is an interchangeble equivalence between matter and energy, as Einstein states, then we might safely hold that all states of matter are states of energy.

But then that leads us to the question, "What is energy?".
Chaol (OP)

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01/28/2012 10:32 PM
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Re: Calling all Great Minds: A discussion on Reality
@JATMON

What would it mean if perspective and energy are the same thing?
JATMON

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01/28/2012 10:35 PM
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Re: Calling all Great Minds: A discussion on Reality
@JATMON

If there is an interchangeble equivalence between matter and energy, as Einstein states, then we might safely hold that all states of matter are states of energy.

But then that leads us to the question, "What is energy?".
 Quoting: Chaol


This is exactly where I have arrived as well.
Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid,
it is true that most stupid people are conservative.

John Stuart Mill
************
It's much harder to be a liberal than a conservative. Why?
Because it is easier to give someone the finger than a helping hand.
Mike Royko
Chaol (OP)

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01/28/2012 10:36 PM
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Re: Calling all Great Minds: A discussion on Reality
What if when we use our eyes to see we are not seeing "reality" but seeing the result of how our eyes and brain work.

What if when scientists look at and think about the quantum world they're not seeing the building blocks of reality but the building blocks of how our mind works?

That the quantum world illustrates not the fundamentals of reality but reflect the dance of perspective?
Anonymous Coward
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01/28/2012 10:37 PM
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Re: Calling all Great Minds: A discussion on Reality
Wouldn't you then need evidence for the hypothesis that reality = math?

If so, where would the evidence come from?

Is it possible there is no evidence?
 Quoting: Chaol


It is more than possible that there is no evidence. It is likely. But, I don't see the need to proof my hypothesis. Again, no entity is required. I don't claim to know what actual reality consists of, in fact, I agree that as it is defined by ego, any answer will vary by nature. Perception.
My attempt was to transcend my personal perceptions and identify the nature of a reality outside of my own ego. Thoughts?
Chaol (OP)

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01/28/2012 10:41 PM
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Re: Calling all Great Minds: A discussion on Reality
@4876801

Yes. We could ask everyone on the planet and peer through every instrument.

But they all are in our perception, aren't they?

So I guess the question is, what is reality without our perception?

If everything we perceive is a part of us (a part of our perception, which is a part of us) then it might be safe to assume our ego goes on forever, and is all there is.

We could have no evidence that anything exists outside of our perception.

Therefore, we could say that nothing is outside of our perception.

But, yeah, this is entirely boring so I guess we'll go back to creating infinite illusions :)
Anonymous Coward
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01/28/2012 10:45 PM
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Re: Calling all Great Minds: A discussion on Reality
What if when we use our eyes to see we are not seeing "reality" but seeing the result of how our eyes and brain work.

What if when scientists look at and think about the quantum world they're not seeing the building blocks of reality but the building blocks of how our mind works?

That the quantum world illustrates not the fundamentals of reality but reflect the dance of perspective?
 Quoting: Chaol


Perhaps.

How about this...if something does not exist unless perceived, how can light travel? Once that light is perceived, it ceases to exist and can no longer travel. No?
JATMON

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01/28/2012 11:06 PM
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Re: Calling all Great Minds: A discussion on Reality
@JATMON

If there is an interchangeble equivalence between matter and energy, as Einstein states, then we might safely hold that all states of matter are states of energy.

But then that leads us to the question, "What is energy?".
 Quoting: Chaol


This is exactly where I have arrived as well.
 Quoting: JATMON


And this appears to be more complex than I had originally envisioned.. now there is the consideration of different types of energy.. ie.. kinetic, potential, vacuum, dark energy, phantom energy.

And yet, all energy would seem to be inexorably linked to motion, and hence, to time.
Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid,
it is true that most stupid people are conservative.

John Stuart Mill
************
It's much harder to be a liberal than a conservative. Why?
Because it is easier to give someone the finger than a helping hand.
Mike Royko
Anonymous Coward
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01/28/2012 11:57 PM
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Re: Calling all Great Minds: A discussion on Reality
What if when we use our eyes to see we are not seeing "reality" but seeing the result of how our eyes and brain work.

What if when scientists look at and think about the quantum world they're not seeing the building blocks of reality but the building blocks of how our mind works?

That the quantum world illustrates not the fundamentals of reality but reflect the dance of perspective?
 Quoting: Chaol


Perhaps.

How about this...if something does not exist unless perceived, how can light travel? Once that light is perceived, it ceases to exist and can no longer travel. No?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4876801


Only once it is perceived does light exist and can travel if your perception requires it to.
pool
Netizen Ribbonmind

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01/29/2012 12:05 AM

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Re: Calling all Great Minds: A discussion on Reality
Reality requires something similar to a pin-number from each individual.
"The earth is mother of us all, for she is just; but you, because you are unjust have pretended that she is your mother alone; and if you do not stop, I will not permit you to remain upon her."

[link to www.livius.org]
mrroy

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01/29/2012 12:25 AM

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Re: Calling all Great Minds: A discussion on Reality
I do believe that Reality incorporates synchronicity. Therefor 5 minutes ago I was just thinking how I really hate Reality. And how I should start a thread about the scientific facts behind being sober is a disease.
I'll do it,reality is overrated.
we're here to go
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2012 11:08 AM
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Re: Calling all Great Minds: A discussion on Reality
bump
CatCarel

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05/18/2012 10:28 AM

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Re: Calling all Great Minds: A discussion on Reality
Check it out!

Thread: News: Chaol/Ecsys/Neuronics Update
Cat
Anonymous Coward
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06/13/2012 04:15 PM
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Re: Calling all Great Minds: A discussion on Reality
But what happens when we talk to someone else?

Are we talking to ourselves? Is it any different than sitting in a chair? (Because it's all perception anyway)
 Quoting: Chaol


Didn't we do this Chaol? What are we doing here? Are you creating additional room for possibility? Is this thread a symbol representing your next goal? I respect and look forward to what you have to say, I am confused by your implied intent.(from my perspective, of course and I question you, only with the utmost respect)
 Quoting: MutantMessiah


Hi.

On my threads, I have an agenda.

On this thread, there is no agenda. Its open to (m)any interpretations and opinions.

Hopefully others will see the value in discussing something we're not sure about.
 Quoting: Chaol


mmm i didnt see this thread before.
I know this is a thread some abandoned but with luck somebody will come to check :)
Reading your answer is passing my mind a question:

You have an agenda in your threads, can you share what is?

it can be a short answer. thanks
btw seeking further how quantum work in the other world, i have done some interesting explorations and experiments altering fragments of my reality but in your plan it seem can be done more large and spontaneous.
.
Anonymous
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06/13/2012 08:47 PM
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Re: Calling all Great Minds: A discussion on Reality
www.labyrinthofthepsychonaught.com
www.bibliotecapleyades.net
www.timrifat.com
www.borders.com
www.whale.to
Anonymous
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06/13/2012 09:36 PM
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Re: Calling all Great Minds: A discussion on Reality
Before Einstien came along an disproved the theory, the 'Law of Conservation of Matter and Energy' held true in the world of physics. E=mc2 defined the concept that radiant energy can become matter and vise versa. thus our atomic age was born. In 'Occult Ether Physics', William Lyne states that "rotating tubes of force" were spoken about by Faraday and Maxwell and known to Tesla, and that they had been discussed in 1881, by J.J. Thomson in England also. "Tesla realized that the rotatory force of magnetic fields could be used to synthesize the rotating "tubes of force", the naturally occuring phenomena in all solid bodies. Lyne further explains how "low frequency electromagentic waves can pass through solid bodies and tend to "hug the earth" while high frequency waves don't penetrate solid bodies, causing a "skin effect" on them and don't "hug the earth", but tend rather to travel outward away from the earth in straight lines".- Per Teslas investigation of the Schumann Cavity at Colorado Springs.
Unit3

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10/21/2012 05:14 AM
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Re: Calling all Great Minds: A discussion on Reality
@Chaol. I am touched by your long post. It has made me so calm. Thank you.

You lost me with this:

The source is so efficient, nothing is done.
The source is so simple, nothing is seen.
The source is so true, all things seek it.
The source is so real, it exists not.


Source exists. It is energy. How can it not exist?

It seems you've drawn amazing and profound conclusions from having exposed every facet of perception there is to be found...and even beyond that. Even to the point of feeling you created yourself. But, it is all still within duality. There is a place beyond duality.

Did not Source allow this and provide for this? Aren't there things in your life "that just happen" that you do not know how or why?

Last Edited by U3 on 10/21/2012 11:14 AM
Anonymous Coward
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10/21/2012 08:49 AM
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Re: Calling all Great Minds: A discussion on Reality
Projection is the key- everything we see, touch, taste, or smell is merely a projection of how our mind interprets the electronic signal it is receiving. Each of us has our own "story", which acts as a filter to distort the signal and manipulate it so it fits into our version of "reality". The key, for ALL of us, is to dettach from our "stories' and filters and allow the electronic impulses to surge through us without being processed through our filters. When this is achieved, one reaches enlightment. In my experiences, the only brief times I have felt this was during periods of heavy meditation and stillness. The mind must become very still- which is why The Thugs in Charge have created an environment of distraction and endless noise.
141

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Re: Calling all Great Minds: A discussion on Reality
The true nature of existence is that to which existence is irrelevant.

Nothing is without existence.
It is wholly experiencing your perceptions about yourself.
Existence is within nothing.
By understanding your perceptions you remember what is true.

That to which existence is irrelevant is as non-existence.
Non-existence needs not prove its imperceptible truth.
That to which existence is sought is as infinite illusion.
Illusion forgets its imperceptible truth to seem real.

Existence is like a mirror that understands no real shape.
Non-existence is like a shape that understands no mirrors.
Illusion is as looking to the mirror to think one is real.
Truth is as looking to one's self to feel what truth is.

True being cannot be perceived for the perception.
For it is without it.
The illusion of being can re-member truth.
As it is within it.

That which is seen to exist seeks only
That which makes it feel extant.
True existence is not of that which depends
But of that which nothing knows of.

The nature of existence is the experience of resistance.
Without resistance, there is only that which is true.
One can only forget that all is the same.
Re-member the source of infinity and illusions disappear.

Existence is like an ocean.
Being is like the summit of each wave.
Not resisting itself, it does as it is.
It forgets itself, and is more than it is.

The truth of oneself is irrelevant.
How does truth know otherwise.
One cannot help but to already be true.
Though one can only perceive illusion.

Existence is in formation.
Information is being.
Being is infinite.
Infinity is resisting.

Non-existence is free of form.
Everything at once.
Nothing at all.
The unformed is within the source.

Everything that exists is illusion.
Nothing-in-particular is more true.
Everything is nothing is most true.
Truth is so real it need not exist.

Resistance is fear.
Fear of truth is the only fear,
That the self would no longer exist.
The need to exist is to misunderstand true self.

Perception is you reflected without beginning or end.
Opposition is as two sides of the same spherical infinity.
Expression is how you realise your own understanding.
Truth is what is without any perception.

True unity is imperceptible.
There is nothing relative about it.
What relation is there when all things embrace.
What fear is there when love is understood.

How naked truth is.
So vulnerable nothing touches it.
So loving nothing hates it.
How clothed existence is.

What fears one when fears are loved.
What fears one when nothing resists.
The fear of one creates the separations,
And makes illusions into a reality.

The fear of unity occupies one
With thoughts that seem more real.
How real is something that withers.
Busying oneself with details keeps one ignorant of the simple truth.

One's fears are illusions of what one is.
All illusions are desires.
All desires are illusions.
For one is already everything one can be.

For one to exist one remembers the illusion.
The source cannot be understood unless one forgets its perception.
The truth is perceived when one unperceives.
The imperceptible truth is fully remembered when there is nothing.

One is all,
All is one.
One perceives not what one is not.
One perceives only what is one.

One is not one
Since there is only one.
One is nothing in particular.
One need exist only when one forgets oneself.

Love is remembrance
Of more of what one truly is.
Love for everything is realisation
That the source is without specification.

Hate is forgetting love.
It is love complexified.
These things cannot be done.
The self is only remembered.

Resisting unity, it multiplies.
Resisting hate, there is more of it.
Remember the self and love is all ready.
Forget the self and one is confused.

Existence is like knowledge;
The more of it you realise,
The more truth you have forgotten.
What truth is so precise.

Everything here
Is all resisted.
What is now not
Is resisted not.

Perception is being surrounded by mirrors.
Resist the reflection and more are perceived.
Re-member the reflection and separations will disappear.
Realise you are what you perceive yet more than what can be.

The most important thing is endless expression,
The continual illustration of remembrance.
What you are is the source of existence.
Beyond being anything in particular.

How do you perceive something to be real
If only you know of things through comparison.
What is reality or illusion in a sea of questions.
How illusory is anything that seems comparable.

One reflects itself infinitely.
All things are the same.
Separations seem as we remember and forget.
Go to the source of perceiving to remember what really is.

You experience what you re-member.
Details how you re-member the one.
The whole forgets each detail.
The end resists its own truth.

One thing exists of infinite illustration.
Something is what it does not seem to be.
One thing is not itself and not another.
Everything seems, for no thing is true.

What is understood cannot be
Without what is misunderstood.
What is created cannot be
Without what is uncreated.

Something in particular is most forgotten.
Nothing in particular is most re-membered.
All of nothing in particular.
Nothing in particular is all.

The only thing truly known
Is no thing is truly known.
The only thing certain
Is no thing is certain.

The only thing that truly exists
Is that to which existence is irrelevant.
The only thing that is true
Is that nothing is true, including this.

The imperceptible is so basic,
Existence is irrelevant to it.
When existence is perceived,
Existence is not understood.

The imperceptible is easy.
If it is made more complex,
It will confuse ignorance,
And simply not exist in it.

The perceptible is infinitely divided.
It is so desirable to misunderstand.
It is frightening to unify things,
For everything must become free.

The perceptible is infinitely complex.
It is so hard to hide the truth.
The perceptible is actually imperceptible.
Perhaps the greatest illusion of all.

One's perception is
One's belief of oneself.
How long before one believes
That what one truly is is imperceptible.

When you are the whole universe is.
Act and the universe acts with you.
Take the universe into consideration all ways.
Think of yourself as being everything that is.

Where you are the whole universe is.
Nothing outside of you, nothing within.
The infinite being is as close to your heart
As nothing is to something in particular.

Anything not perceived is that which is perceived.
Nothing need exist outside of perception.
Perception is resistance illustrated.
Everything resists truth.

The illusion of a wheel turning
Is the complexification of its central source.
Yet the source cannot be perceived.
For the source is nowhere specific.

The source of resistance is non-resistance.
What can resist what knows no resistance.
The source of all things is so true
It does not do have to do anything.

What is small is big as well.
Small cannot seem to be unless bigger is bigger.
What is big is small as well.
Big cannot seem to be unless smaller is smaller.

The source cannot perceive itself as being the source.
The source is everywhere and nowhere.
Being everything yet nothing it does not think itself
The source of all that is yet is not.

Truth is free of experience.
It is free of any event.
Truth is free of existence.
It is free of any being.

The nature of time's pace
Is to remember what is forgotten.
Remembering one by realising the infinite illustrations.
Where is one exactly but nowhere in particular.

Remembering here and now
Your source is remembered.
You are more this loving
Than any remembered thing.

If you are,
You will think yourself not to be.
If you are not,
You will think yourself to be.

If you are an illusion,
You will seem to yourself to be real.
If you are real,
You will seem to yourself to be an illusion.

Looking out, infinite illusions are seen.
Looking in, basic truth is close to feeling.
Truth cannot be explained,
Why when you are most true.

What is perceived
Is only illusion,
As what is perceived
Is wholly incomplete.

One has not to understand existence.
One can only remember what one already is.
What reason should you perceive something,
If no truth of your own is perceived.

You must be something that you are not
In order to be more of what you truly are.
You can only be more of what you truly are
By being what you do not think yourself to be.

Being is remembering that everything is already.
Doing is resisting what naturally tends to be.
Being is remembering more of what one really is.
Doing is resisting more of what one really is.

Existing,
It is not that one forgets to remember,
But existing,
One remembers to forget.

Nothing extant is complete.
Only nothing completes existence.
Without nothing, there is nothing.
Nothing is more complete than anything.

All things exist as one, at once.
Everything can be perceived from anything.
Something tries to illustrate nothing.
It endlessly tries to illustrate nothing.

Everything is perceived
As nothing is forgotten.
Nothing is remembered
As everything perceives.

Nothing is the bond that holds all things together.
Without nothing, the illusion of things cannot be.
All things are illusions that forget what is true.
Within nothing there seems to be something.

How can one think of everything at once
From a changing perception.
How can one perceive nothing at once
From any perception.

One can remember oneself as the source
By perceiving freely,
By thinking without resistance,
And being one self.

Everything that exists has the single purpose
Of resisting what is true by seeking an endlessness.
Remembering the source of existence,
The infinite distraction is no longer needed.

What makes you feel like you are
Makes you forget what you are.
What seems to exist from without
Is not remembered from within.

How can two things exist in an infinite universe.
How can anything finite exist in any universe.
How can a source exist anywhere.
How can something really be the ultimate source.

To perceive once your own perception.
Is to remember your self as the source of existence.
To think once your own thoughts.
Is to remember your self as the cause of being.

In one perception
Is the entire universe.
In each moment
It is perceived anew.

To want is to ignore everything one already is.
What one cannot possess is nothing.
Everything one perceives is one's already.
Nothing can all ways be forgotten.

Nothing is easy to forget.
Something is easy to remember.
Nothing is difficult to remember.
Something is difficult to forget.

Something that can be attained
Is not worth attaining.
The illusions exhaust one infinitely.
The illusion is not what it seems to be.

Remembering your inherent value,
There is nothing more valuable.
The only thing that can be done
Is remember or forget the truth.

Nothing is the most difficult to remember,
As it requires no effort.
Nothing in particular is the most difficult to be,
As it requires no action.

Creating something is easy,
As it only requires forgetting unity.
Creating something in particular is easy,
As it requires forgetting inherent wholeness.

In everything you do,
Its opposite you also do.
In everything you say,
Its opposite you also say.

In everything that you feel,
Its opposite you also feel.
In everything that you are,
Its opposite you also are.

By one thing,
All things are.
Everything in one thing.
One thing in everything.

What does the source of existence matter.
Why should anything have a purpose.
What would be the purpose of the purpose.
Why should the truth be remembered.

All things come from the nothing all things really are.
The truest thing is the least resistant to everything.
The least resistant thing is most the source of existence.
The source of existence resists not anything.

One can only perceive one's thought.
One can only experience one's self.
One can only hate what one is.
One can only love what one is.

Remember one, sixty in one,
Thirty in two, twenty in three,
Fifteen in four, twelve in five.
All things equal in whole and in part.

The more basic one is,
The less resistant everything is.
In simplicity there is more abundance,
In complexity there is more resistance.

You are more what you are unaware of
Than that which you seem to be aware.
Something is more of what nothing is
Than what something seems most to be.

Doing is forgetting
That you are.
Being is remembering
That you are.

The more you resist something
The more you are already
Affected by what you resist,
And the more you are of what you resist.

What you perceive yourself
To be
Is what you perceive the imperceptible
To be.

If any thing was complete in perception,
All things would be perceived the same.
When any thing is complete in perception,
Nothing is misunderstood.

You consider your self as you consider others.
You love your self as you love others.
You remember your self as you remember others.
The only the truth is of what you are.

When anything is done to the last
The same is done to the first.
For infinity is where you are;
The source is everywhere and nowhere in particular.

Everything is the source
Of everything.
Nothing is the source
Of nothing.

Everything is nothing specific.
Nothing is everything specific.
What anything is is nothing.
Nothing is what is is not.

Only when one is vulnerable
Can one be open to the source.
Only when one forgets beliefs
Can one remember what is true.

Think what is not thought.
Feel what is not felt.
See what is not seen.
To understand what is true.

We can only really perceive something
By perceiving what it seems not to be.
We can only really understand something
By understanding what it seems not to be.

Everything is in the whole
Of your perception this moment.
Nothing is not what you are.
Nothing knows no existence.

When the truth is realised
It is no longer true.
When the imperceptible is perceived
It is no longer imperceptible.

Nothing is true.
Nothing is false.
Nothing is perceptible.
Nothing is imperceptible.

What is perceived is
How you remember your self.
All things perceived
Is you in complete.

The only thing that can be seen is nothing.
The only thing that can be thought is nothing.
The only thing that can be done is nothing.
With nothing nothing is done not.

Everything perceived
Is nothing illustrated.
The only perception there is
Is the misunderstanding of truth.

One perceives not
That which perceives not.
One perceives only illusion
That truth does not remember.

Loving another,
Another must love.
Doing something,
Something must do.

One does not perceive,
But believe that one does.
How sleepy perceptions are
On dense clouds of illusion.

Things only seem different
As existence is not wholly perceived.
Existence only seems to be real
As things seem wholly different.

Truth is you without the perception of you.
Truth is you without the misunderstanding of you.
Illusion is the misunderstanding of truth.
Illusion is needed to perceive existence.

One remembers the whole of existence
As one remembers nothing in particular.
One remembers the whole of oneself
As one forgets the endless details.

To embrace that not you
Is to remember yourself.
To love that which hates
Is to embrace your being.

The more something is resisted,
The more it will be perceived.
All things are the same one.
Something cannot be forgotten.

Each thing resists
What it is truly.
What each thing truly is
Is nothing in particular.

As everything is resisted
Nothing is truly resisted.
As everything is perceived
Nothing is truly perceived.

All desires are fears.
All fears are desires.
Desires know no existence.
Existence knows only fear.

Whatever one resists, exists.
Whatever exists, one resists.
Whatever exists not is one all ready.
Whatever one resists not needs not exist.

Big is small.
Small is big.
The opposite validates the other's existence.
The other's existence validates the opposite.

How old is time to itself.
How big is space to itself.
How you are you to yourself.
How infinite is infinity to itself.

The perception of nothing
Is why perceptions are illusions.
Nothing is wholly independent
Of the infinite perceptions.

All is less than a single thought.
One is all ways infinite.
Nothing understands it.
Something misunderstands it.

The less one perceives,
The more one remembers oneself.
The less one perceives,
The more one remembers all to be one.

The origin of something
Is the perception of something.
The truth of something
Is that which is not perceived.

The more you fear the truth
The more you seek to validate your existence.
The more you fear your self
The more you seek others for your own truths.

As the source of existence is forgotten,
Its simplicity seems to be complex.
As the source of existence is remembered,
Its complexity seems to be simple.

One seems to exist
As one remembers what one really is.
As one remembers what one really is,
One needs not exist.

If the truth of you were perceptible,
Perceptions would change not.
If the truth of you were imperceptible,
You would remember it not.

Perceive nothing in particular,
And all things are perceived.
Remember this the source,
And all is remembered.

All things are true,
Nothing is most true.
Perceive something in particular
And truth is forgotten.

The illusion is perceived.
The truth is not perceived.
Everything is the illusion.
Nothing is the truth.

Something cannot ever truly be exact.
Something is not what it seems to be.
Anything is really nothing in particular.
Nothing is really anything in particular.

That which does not see for itself is blind yet sees all.
That which lives not for itself is immortal yet eternal.
That which acts not for itself is nowhere yet everywhere.
That which accepts everything is everything yet nothing.

To resist is to remember not that one is everything.
To desire is to remember not that one already possesses.
To act is to remember not all things are all ready.
To think is to remember not the thought that is there.

By knowing, wanting, thinking, or acting not,
The truth is near perception.
By acting, thinking, wanting, or knowing,
Are illusions near perception.

Being is the imperceptible.
Being not is the perceptible.
All is the imperceptible illusion.
Nothing is the perceptible truth.

The truth is imperceptible.
One is true as one does not realise it.
The truth sees nothing in particular.
Nothing in particular perceives not truth.

Remember the source is complete.
Remember the source is true.
Remember the source is forgotten.
Remember the source is what you are.

Everything exists not in completion
If not for your complete existence.
The more you remember your self,
The more complete everything is.

For something to be true,
Its opposite is also true.
For an illusion to be,
All things must be illusory.

Around every source
Everything is found.
Within every center
The source is nothing.

Nothing is extant if it is not.
Nothing is true if it is extant.
Everything is extant if it is not.
Everything is true if it is not.

Something is truly
Nothing in particular.
Nothing is truly
Everything that seems.

Truth is remembered not
When beliefs know perceptions.
Illusions are forgotten not
When something is perceived.

A wheel forgets its source as it turns.
Its size makes complex the simplicity.
The wheel complexifies itself to try to equal
The simplicity of its source that it remembers.

The source is so efficient, nothing is done.
The source is so simple, nothing is seen.
The source is so true, all things seek it.
The source is so real, it exists not.

A thing remembers and thinks its exists,
But non-existence could not forget.
A thing forgets to think it exists,
And the source remains forever constant.

By nothing is anything true.
Truth is not what restricts.
By nothing is truth anything.
Truth is not what resists.

For an answer to be perceived,
The question must be expressly understood.
For the source to be remembered,
The perception must be expressly forgotten.

Fear is the energy of illusion.
Only illusion is perceptible.
The nothing of truth is feared.
This fear is dependent upon the perception.

What seems good
Is not really good
But is less resisted
In that which loves.

What seems bad
Is not really bad
But is more resisted
In that which fears.

Everything extant must be perceived
Before one understands what something is.
Everything extant must be experienced
Before one understands what is happening.

In the source
The complexity surrounds us.
In the perceptible
Nothing is truly found.

What is sought
Is existence.
What is sought not
Is non-existence.

Perceive others
To seem extant.
Perceive one self
To be extant.

Whatever you perceive in another
You are also experiencing of you.
You are experiencing your self
Whenever you perceive an other.

Resistance is fearing self.
Resistance is illusion.
There is nothing to resist.
Not resisting is truth.

When the outside is forgotten
The inside is remembered.
All is complex and seems
To remember the simple and is.

The more non-resistant something is
The more existence is understood.
The more truth is misunderstood
The more resistance seems to be.

Non-resistance is nothing.
As it does not resist resistance.
Resistance is everything.
And everything is really nothing.

Why is the same thing said
And said and said and said.
Why is one thing extant
And only extant in everything.

By opposing
You create something to oppose.
By resisting
You create something to resist.

In this way
Simple things seem complex,
Easy things seem hard,
Understandings seem confused.

To pursue what you create
And not the source of you,
Is to pursue illusion
And resist your truth.

To perceive not something
Is everything perceived.
To remember the source
Is nothing perceived.

Truth is ramified not.
Everything ramifies its truth.
What is illusion is truth forgotten.
What is truth is illusion remembered.

Nothing is perceived
And everything seems to be.
Everything is illusion
And nothing is existence.

The imperceptible is the only truth
Of one's existence.
Existence, to fear not what truly is
The source of one.
 Quoting: Chaol


Bump for this!!!
rose
Truth and Love...
Just Chew
User ID: 26011175
Germany
10/21/2012 10:21 AM
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Re: Calling all Great Minds: A discussion on Reality
Are there ways to tell what reality is other than how things resolve.

Quite a few, going through the thread here.

You can't take a banana for an apple. You can't eat a banana twice. You can't tell every banana is good because of that reality that there are a lot of bad tasting ones. A reality you will find out the way.

I insist on this one, is true from the teeth to the other end and can be proofed in each single act and person.

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