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The christian debacle.

 
Zav
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10/22/2011 03:55 PM
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The christian debacle.
Alright Christians, it is time that I have made this thread...

Let me get this straight...

You chose to worship a God that is supposedly all knowing, timeless, all powerful, and unconditionally loving. Am i right?

So cmon, let's do a little rundown, shall we?

God resides in heaven with other heavenly beings. (Heaven is HIS creation along with every being there.) He knows everything about them, and what they will do. (see: all knowing and timeless) While he's coolin' on the throne in heaven, his brightest and most badass angel, Lucifer, decides "I can be better than God, and this place is quite boring, to be honest!" So he and his goons are kicked out of heaven by God. (Cause that makes sense, if you're all powerful and know what Lucifer will do) Also ask yourself why would lucifer who KNOWS god and SEES him in his full glory in heaven would rationalize such an action. Surely he is not that stupid.

Meanwhile, God decides to create beautiful Earth (yay!) He creates the garden of Eden and decides to create mankind who is in his image. Remember, he is all knowing, timeless, and powerful. So he creates this perfect little garden with no evil, sin, lying, or anything negative. What a quaint little petting zoo. He also warns them of the tree of knowledge (of good and evil, oh, intriguing!) He boldly says, "dont eat of the tree for you will surely die!" Some time passes by, and here comes satan/lucifer/serpent. Comes up to eve and hes like, well if you eat it, you will gain knowledge like god and it wont be so quite boring here. Infact, you will have choice! (does that sound like free will?)

So then god finds out that for the first time EVER humans do something that is not HIS wish (free will, gods will..? which is it?" He gets rather displeased and kicks them out of Eden. And also curses the serpent to crawl on the ground (that makes no sense either) "How dare that "evil" snake give them choices besides my own!"

He quickly comes to find out that once humanity knows of good and evil, they start doing all kinds of choices and facing consequences. After sometime he decides to "save" humanity, so he comes down to earth as his son, Jesus, also himself. Jesus does his thing, gets crucified, and dies for all of our sins (choices against gods will)

This whole time God decides that he's not gonna reveal himself anymore, thus giving no reason for anyone to believe in him, besides heresay and a book.

So, basically, you wish to believe that this perfect timeless being gets mad at his own creations, (even though he created them as they are and knows what will happen in his creation) and sends them into eternal damnation if they do not believe in his suicide/sacrifice. He gives you free will, but will kill you forever if you chose to use it.

Please, what is the point of judging your own creations, and then sending them to ETERNAL damnation for the choices they have made for their measly short stint here on earth? What's the other choice, Heaven where its always light, streets of gold, angels sing, and nothing bad ever happens? You think you're gonna have mansions or something? How exciting...

What is the point of God's little creation experiment? He sounds like a sadistic psychopath who is doing this for his amusement. He is either not all knowing, or he does NOT love you unconditionally! Saying "you will have eternal life, unless you dont believe/do what i say" IS NOT UNCONDITIONAL LOVE!

Imagine this scenario. You have a child... He gets older and decides to abandon you and runs away. Years later you come across him and he is poor and sick laying on the street. He doesnt remember you and tells you to leave him be and he doesnt believe that you are his father. What do you do to your son? Kill him, torture him, abuse him? How about all of those, for eternity?

Yeah, he sure does love you ;) Christianity makes absolutely no sense. And if it is indeed true, i do not wish to worship a god who will judge me for my actions and will put me in hell for eternity even though he has never given me a reason to love him.

If you say "he created you, thats reason enough" you're misguided. That's like saying a father who has a kid then leaves him to fend for himself at birth with a note that says, "believe in me, if you dont, i will kill you" is a good father. get a grip maroons.

Last Edited by Zav on 10/22/2011 03:57 PM
alpha>me<omega

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10/22/2011 04:10 PM
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Re: The christian debacle.
your face is a debacle.
Anonymous Coward
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10/22/2011 04:22 PM
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Re: The christian debacle.
the first time EVER humans do something that is not HIS wish (free will, gods will..? which is it?" He gets rather displeased and kicks them out of Eden. And also curses the serpent to crawl on the ground (that makes no sense either) "How dare that "evil" snake give them choices besides my own!"

He quickly comes to find out that once humanity knows of good and evil, they start doing all kinds of choices and facing consequences. ...

He gives you free will, but will kill you forever if you chose to use it.
 Quoting: Zav


CHOOSE good before evil and you will live forever, with God because only God is good. Simple.
Librarian
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10/22/2011 04:48 PM
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Re: The christian debacle.
There is no such thing as unconditional love.
Anonymous Coward
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10/22/2011 04:49 PM
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Re: The christian debacle.
the first time EVER humans do something that is not HIS wish (free will, gods will..? which is it?" He gets rather displeased and kicks them out of Eden. And also curses the serpent to crawl on the ground (that makes no sense either) "How dare that "evil" snake give them choices besides my own!"

He quickly comes to find out that once humanity knows of good and evil, they start doing all kinds of choices and facing consequences. ...

He gives you free will, but will kill you forever if you chose to use it.
 Quoting: Zav


CHOOSE good before evil and you will live forever, with God because only God is good. Simple.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3635211


Only love is good....choose love not hatred. The "god" of the bible, whatever or whoever that was, is not the creator of the universe. The "god" of the bible is a pretender, and and dangerous, power-mad control freak. The primitive people of those ancient times were awed by unexplained "powers" so naturally accepted his claim that he was "almighty god". He wasn't, and isn't. The creative consciousness that we spring from has no wish to harm or punish us. There are bad things and bad places in this universe, but they were not created by "god" to punish us for being imperfect.
Anonymous Coward
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10/22/2011 04:58 PM
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Re: The christian debacle.
the first time EVER humans do something that is not HIS wish (free will, gods will..? which is it?" He gets rather displeased and kicks them out of Eden. And also curses the serpent to crawl on the ground (that makes no sense either) "How dare that "evil" snake give them choices besides my own!"

He quickly comes to find out that once humanity knows of good and evil, they start doing all kinds of choices and facing consequences. ...

He gives you free will, but will kill you forever if you chose to use it.
 Quoting: Zav


CHOOSE good before evil and you will live forever, with God because only God is good. Simple.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3635211


Only love is good....choose love not hatred.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1229039


Always ask yourself "love of what"? You can love foolishly by loving of wrong objects/subjects.


12And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. Matthew 24



If you don´t love God of the Old Testament you know Jesus Christ neither:


My Father, whom you (jewish people) claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. Though you do not know him, I know (1) him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and keep his word. John 8:55

John 4:22,23 You (non-jewish people) worship(2) you know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the jewish people.

But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit(1) AND in truth(2): for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full. This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. John 15:10-12
Anonymous Coward
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10/22/2011 05:04 PM
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Re: The christian debacle.
the first time EVER humans do something that is not HIS wish (free will, gods will..? which is it?" He gets rather displeased and kicks them out of Eden. And also curses the serpent to crawl on the ground (that makes no sense either) "How dare that "evil" snake give them choices besides my own!"

He quickly comes to find out that once humanity knows of good and evil, they start doing all kinds of choices and facing consequences. ...

He gives you free will, but will kill you forever if you chose to use it.
 Quoting: Zav


CHOOSE good before evil and you will live forever, with God because only God is good. Simple.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3635211


Only love is good....choose love not hatred.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1229039


Always ask yourself "love of what"? You can love foolishly by loving of wrong objects/subjects.


12And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. Matthew 24



If you don´t love God of the Old Testament you know Jesus Christ neither:


My Father, whom you (jewish people) claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. Though you do not know him, I know (1) him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and keep his word. John 8:55

John 4:22,23 You (non-jewish people) worship(2) you know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the jewish people.

But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit(1) AND in truth(2): for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full. This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. John 15:10-12
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3635211


I don't need books or priests or churches. God lives in my heart, and is nearer to me than my own breath. I trust that I was made to feel God's presence whenever and where ever I choose. The "words" of bible-readers don't frighten me. Many in this world are tied like a dog to a post. They can only go so far, and then only in circles. That post is organized religion.
Anonymous Coward
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10/22/2011 05:10 PM
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Re: The christian debacle.
I should've consider christianity seriously IF only bible not talk about eternal hell. That is the contradiction you need, no need to look elsewhere.
Hell is compatible with Hinduism or Islamic beliefs though, in Hinduism you stay for a while if you real bad then reincarnate elsewhere, in Islam you stay forever because you choose to not worship the Creator.
Some muslims say Islam is almost same as Christianity but NO, totally differnt, in Islam; Creator can do whatever He wishes to His creation, He doesn't say I unconditionally love you and sacrifice myself but if you don't believe me you gonna burn.
Christ case a bit psychotic.
Anonymous Coward
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10/22/2011 05:11 PM
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Re: The christian debacle.
...


CHOOSE good before evil and you will live forever, with God because only God is good. Simple.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3635211


Only love is good....choose love not hatred.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1229039


Always ask yourself "love of what"? You can love foolishly by loving of wrong objects/subjects.


12And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. Matthew 24



If you don´t love God of the Old Testament you know Jesus Christ neither:


My Father, whom you (jewish people) claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. Though you do not know him, I know (1) him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and keep his word. John 8:55

John 4:22,23 You (non-jewish people) worship(2) you know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the jewish people.

But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit(1) AND in truth(2): for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full. This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. John 15:10-12
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3635211


I don't need books or priests or churches. God lives in my heart, and is nearer to me than my own breath. I trust that I was made to feel God's presence whenever and where ever I choose. The "words" of bible-readers don't frighten me. Many in this world are tied like a dog to a post. They can only go so far, and then only in circles. That post is organized religion.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1229039


I am fine with that. Only avoid the foolish love. That´s all.
ClassicHen

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10/22/2011 05:39 PM
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Re: The christian debacle.
Well, you have to CHOOSE whether to be with God or not. If you don't like Him, nor how He set things up, your choice is obviously the other one. But, you DO know that entails a master who is evil and enjoys suffering in his kingdom. You still have your choice, sounds like you're blaming God for the choice you are making.
theSearchingJones

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10/22/2011 05:45 PM
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Re: The christian debacle.
All religions, not just christianity, are Spiritual debacle.

goodevil
We get the powers over us that we've earned collectively. Humanity, as a whole, is self-interested, shallow, ignorant, violent and immoral; small wonder, therefore, that our leaders (secret or otherwise) reflect that. You want better leaders, become better people.

I forgive myself, I Love myself, I'm sorry, Please forgive me, I forgive you, I love you, Thank you.

God Bless You;
I Bless You;
Bless Yourself(~).

Love is the answer ~ Peace be with You.
TXGal4Truth

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10/22/2011 05:49 PM
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Re: The christian debacle.
I should've consider christianity seriously IF only bible not talk about eternal hell. That is the contradiction you need, no need to look elsewhere.
Hell is compatible with Hinduism or Islamic beliefs though, in Hinduism you stay for a while if you real bad then reincarnate elsewhere, in Islam you stay forever because you choose to not worship the Creator.
Some muslims say Islam is almost same as Christianity but NO, totally differnt, in Islam; Creator can do whatever He wishes to His creation, He doesn't say I unconditionally love you and sacrifice myself but if you don't believe me you gonna burn.
Christ case a bit psychotic.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3791123


That's the problem friend. Hell=Eternal Separation from God. That means that come judgment time, you cease to exist. Not burn in some imaginary place forever.
So have I now become your enemy for telling you the TRUTH? Galatians 4:16
************************************
“Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who sets the planets in motion.” ~Isaac Newton
************************************
We are called to be BOLD. ~Joshua 1:9~
************************************
You call me paranoid. I call you uninformed.

:tgdmwt:
Anonymous Coward
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10/22/2011 06:08 PM
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Re: The christian debacle.
You chose to worship a God that is supposedly all knowing, timeless, all powerful, and unconditionally loving. Am i right?


********************************************


If you ever connected with God......you would out of your free will greatly love Him. Wretched sinner.....made white by God's grace.

You can only talk tough because you do not really know if He is up there.......wish to believe something different.....and as such explain Him out of existence.


His great love gift by the way was already given......approx. two thousand years ago.......to His creation in it's totality.


You can love your car.......but will hate your tire when it goes flat.



You....currently being in rebellion against God......are an enemy of God. He does not unconditionally love you. Where did you pick up that notion?


"For you are not a God who takes pleasure in wickedness. Nor shall evil dwell with You. The boastful shall not stand in Your sight; You HATE all workers of iniquity. You shall destroy those who speak falsehood; the Lord ABHORS the bloodthirsty and deceitful men." (Ps 5: 4-6)


"God is a just judge, and God is ANGRY with the wicked EVERY DAY. (Ps 7: 11)


"The Lord tests the righteous, but the wicked and the one who loves violence His soul HATES. (Ps 11: 11)


So that is your current status OP being in rebellion against God and an enemy of God. There is no need to sugar coat it.

1. He is angry with you every day.
2. He hates you.
3. He abhors you.


God reaches out to the lost.....even though they are His enemies. Jesus knocks on the door......but a person must open the door. Once someone gives themselves to Christ.....then the punishment is paid for by Christ. Either the sinner takes the punishment.....or Christ does.


Someone who is born again is immediately connected with God......indwelt by the Holy Spirit......and declared "not guilty".....based on what Christ did. That person not only becomes a child of God........but a co-heir with Christ.


If you created something in your tool shop OP.....you would have every right to destroy it later on if you were not pleased with it.


"Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart."

"So the Lord said, 'I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them.'"

"But Noah found grace in the eyes of Lord." (Gen 6: 5-8)


Having spared a remnant, God therefore had to humble Himself, put on human flesh, come into this world, to go to the cross........the sinless, unblemished Lamb of God.....a suitable and acceptable payment for the sins of the world.
Anonymous Coward
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10/22/2011 07:16 PM
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Re: The christian debacle.
Alright Christians, it is time that I have made this thread...

Let me( .......blah blah blah..)
chose to worship (.......blah blah blah.....)
his brightest and most badass angel, Lucifer
(........
blah blah blah...what?.the.heck!..)

 Quoting: Zav


It kinda looks like you made your decision Sorry to see that

The Hell eternity is not Biblical but a Babylonian Doctrine!

Your understanding of the Bible and God's Plan of Redemption/Forgiveness of Sin's is Rather limited

have an Idea for you Try getting on your Knees Humbly before God every Morning ,Night before Bed and Ask the Lord for what ever is in Your Heart......(should be interesting)

You may just surprise yourself

But trust me on this If you Reject Jesus Love/God....
Then You have Chosen another by Default and you will get more and more wicked
wildhoney

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10/22/2011 07:18 PM

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Re: The christian debacle.
Alright Christians, it is time that I have made this thread...

Let me get this straight...

You chose to worship a God that is supposedly all knowing, timeless, all powerful, and unconditionally loving. Am i right?

So cmon, let's do a little rundown, shall we?

God resides in heaven with other heavenly beings. (Heaven is HIS creation along with every being there.) He knows everything about them, and what they will do. (see: all knowing and timeless) While he's coolin' on the throne in heaven, his brightest and most badass angel, Lucifer, decides "I can be better than God, and this place is quite boring, to be honest!" So he and his goons are kicked out of heaven by God. (Cause that makes sense, if you're all powerful and know what Lucifer will do) Also ask yourself why would lucifer who KNOWS god and SEES him in his full glory in heaven would rationalize such an action. Surely he is not that stupid.

Meanwhile, God decides to create beautiful Earth (yay!) He creates the garden of Eden and decides to create mankind who is in his image. Remember, he is all knowing, timeless, and powerful. So he creates this perfect little garden with no evil, sin, lying, or anything negative. What a quaint little petting zoo. He also warns them of the tree of knowledge (of good and evil, oh, intriguing!) He boldly says, "dont eat of the tree for you will surely die!" Some time passes by, and here comes satan/lucifer/serpent. Comes up to eve and hes like, well if you eat it, you will gain knowledge like god and it wont be so quite boring here. Infact, you will have choice! (does that sound like free will?)

So then god finds out that for the first time EVER humans do something that is not HIS wish (free will, gods will..? which is it?" He gets rather displeased and kicks them out of Eden. And also curses the serpent to crawl on the ground (that makes no sense either) "How dare that "evil" snake give them choices besides my own!"

He quickly comes to find out that once humanity knows of good and evil, they start doing all kinds of choices and facing consequences. After sometime he decides to "save" humanity, so he comes down to earth as his son, Jesus, also himself. Jesus does his thing, gets crucified, and dies for all of our sins (choices against gods will)

This whole time God decides that he's not gonna reveal himself anymore, thus giving no reason for anyone to believe in him, besides heresay and a book.

So, basically, you wish to believe that this perfect timeless being gets mad at his own creations, (even though he created them as they are and knows what will happen in his creation) and sends them into eternal damnation if they do not believe in his suicide/sacrifice. He gives you free will, but will kill you forever if you chose to use it.

Please, what is the point of judging your own creations, and then sending them to ETERNAL damnation for the choices they have made for their measly short stint here on earth? What's the other choice, Heaven where its always light, streets of gold, angels sing, and nothing bad ever happens? You think you're gonna have mansions or something? How exciting...

What is the point of God's little creation experiment? He sounds like a sadistic psychopath who is doing this for his amusement. He is either not all knowing, or he does NOT love you unconditionally! Saying "you will have eternal life, unless you dont believe/do what i say" IS NOT UNCONDITIONAL LOVE!

Imagine this scenario. You have a child... He gets older and decides to abandon you and runs away. Years later you come across him and he is poor and sick laying on the street. He doesnt remember you and tells you to leave him be and he doesnt believe that you are his father. What do you do to your son? Kill him, torture him, abuse him? How about all of those, for eternity?

Yeah, he sure does love you ;) Christianity makes absolutely no sense. And if it is indeed true, i do not wish to worship a god who will judge me for my actions and will put me in hell for eternity even though he has never given me a reason to love him.

If you say "he created you, thats reason enough" you're misguided. That's like saying a father who has a kid then leaves him to fend for himself at birth with a note that says, "believe in me, if you dont, i will kill you" is a good father. get a grip maroons.
 Quoting: Zav


He has incredible patience..
Matthew 16>18
And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it..
Peter was crucified..on Vatican Hill

"Thou shalt not kill" does not apply to murder of one's own kind only, but to all living beings; and this Commandment was inscribed in the human breast long before it was proclaimed from Sinai. ~Leo Tolstoy


You have heard that it was said, "You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy."
But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have?

..Immanuel ,The Christ (Sermon Of The Mount)


“WHAT YOU DO TO OTHERS YOU DO TO YOURSELF FOR THAT IS THE LAW..AND THE PROFIT"

..)

Preach the Gospel at all times..and when necessary use words..

St.Francis Of Assisi..

Dont look at where the finger is pointing..but at WHO is doing the pointing


wildhoney14@yahoo.com

[link to www.google.ca]

Be part of the re evolution of the Spirit..say yes to peace and love..be called child of God

Inherit the Kingdom

...Time of the Angels..


oh and PLEASE STOP SENDING ME SPAM FROM AFRICA..thank you :)
"Libra II"
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10/22/2011 08:42 PM
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Re: The christian debacle.
Satan, who is an angel, and who for that reason cannot sin (against the lord god almighty that is), is told to do this that and the other EVIL on planet earth. And no matter what the good lord and Satan do we're supposed to raise our hands to the heavens and say: "Praise the Lord." Some people love being robots and really do say: "Praise the Lord" no matter what happens. Personally all I have to say to the good lord god almighty in heaven is this: "Go fuck ya self ya creep."
Anonymous Coward
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10/23/2011 05:06 AM
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Re: The christian debacle.
Satan, who is an angel, and who for that reason cannot sin (against the lord god almighty that is), is told to do this that and the other EVIL on planet earth. And no matter what the good lord and Satan do we're supposed to raise our hands to the heavens and say: "Praise the Lord." Some people love being robots and really do say: "Praise the Lord" no matter what happens.
 Quoting: "Libra II" 416981


I could not agree more. Conscious of or not we are in that position and have to choose:

Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done. Luke 22:42


Some people love being robots and really do say: "Praise the Lord" no matter what happens. Personally all I have to say to the good lord god almighty in heaven is this: "Go fuck ya self ya creep."
 Quoting: "Libra II" 416981


Jesus answered, You would have no power over me if it were not given to you from above. Therefore the one who handed me over to you is guilty of a greater sin. John 19:11

... whoever would that be. Jesus words are eternal.


the good lord god almighty in heaven
 Quoting: "Libra II" 416981


... But here you are wrong patently:

The heavens, even the highest heaven, cannot contain you. How much less this temple I have built! 2 Chronicles 6:18, 1 Kings 8:27

Heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool. What kind of house will you build for me? says the Lord. Or where will my resting place be? Isaiah 66:1, Acts 7:49


The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit. John 3:8

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