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MYSTERIES of ANCIENT NEW ZEALAND and THE PACIFIC

 
Anonymous Coward
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10/27/2011 08:08 PM
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Re: MYSTERIES of ANCIENT NEW ZEALAND and THE PACIFIC
lol Tauranga, you crack me up

Have fun, at least you found a positive from the situation :)

I havent been over there for a while, but ill look over latter, i got some chores i need to get done, and im going to a funtion 2night, so i need get my things prepared.

Have a great day

hf
 Quoting: Ra 4146858

I had to be sure, and now i am. two of her mini-me's were there straight away it was priceless.

Yeah it is a bit of a laugh that she fell straight into the trap. Man she is angry now. She is a 'lord of karma, she speaks for god' Can you believe someone would say such a thing? Go and have a look, brother, she is one hell of a jealous nutter.

Yes please come and see what you think.

And you have a great day and a great eveninghf
Anonymous Coward
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10/27/2011 10:44 PM
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There is mainstream NZ history, and then there are radical new approaches to answering some mysteries about NZ's history - it is thought that NZ was explored before the birth of Christ ~ !!

The Moriori, Whakapapa and European options detail the mainstream views of the respective histories.

The early social history of NZ has been divided, as a convenience, into several categories.

Naturally this division is artifical - the histories of each ethnic grouping has been influenced by, and will influence, other groups.

This artifice also overlooks, out of some necessity, the substantial contributions that other ethnic groups like the Chinese, Polynesians, and Asians have had on the country, and on other New Zealanders.

[link to www.zealand.org.nz]
Anonymous Coward
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10/27/2011 11:01 PM
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Indigineous people of Rekohu - the Chatham Islands, NZ

As far as they knew, they were all that there were of humankind, and the closest term was "tchakat henu" or "people of the land".

Where did they come from ? One mythology, which differed among the tribes, had as their genesis that "the people" had come from Te Aomarama and Rongomaiwhenua - Sky Father and Earth Mother.
[link to www.zealand.org.nz]

Their oral tradition said they had come from Aotea, but this was not necessarily Aoteoroa - "aotea" means distant, far away. It is probable they originated in Polynesia of course, but another myth tells us that the Moriori originated on Pitt Island, which is nearby.

Henry Skinner, ethnologist, observed in 1919 that,
"the Moriori culture and the southern culture of the Maoris have points of relationships far and wide in the Pacific .. closest with eastern Polynesia and particularly with Easter Island"
[link to www.zealand.org.nz]

Great Fleets of the Maori, which is the most currently-held belief, detailed by Sir Peter Buck (with suggested canoes below)

The first ancestor, according to this belief was a human rather than a god-creation, Kahu of the Tane canoe - he later returned to NZ, leaving offspring and wife behind.

Canoe
Chief
Arrived
Tribes

Tane, from NZ Kahu Kaingaroa or Tuku, Rekohu Aotea
Rangi Mata Mihiti N.Coast of Rekohu Wheteina
Rangi Houa Te Rakiroa N.coast of Rekohu Wheteina
Oropuke Moe Rauru
As we see, two canoes later arrived, with Te Rakiroa, and Mihiti, fleeing the Rauru tribe, and several generations later a third canoe arrived with Moe of the Rauru themselves.

Fighting inevitably broke out between Rauru and Wheteina, but chief Nukunuku stopped it with a remarkable proclamation

The Moriori were immediately disadvantaged in their new land.

It was an unforgiving and harsh island, especially after the hazy climes of Polynesia - Rekoha was named after the mist that clings about the Island, "misty sun". The satellite image (below) shows the streaming clouds.
[link to www.zealand.org.nz]

While New Zealand was a lush and productive farming country for the new Maori settlers, and they simply continued with the farming culture they had left behind in the Pacific Islands, only with even more berries, birds and fish thrown in - the Moriori's island of Rekohu could not sustain the same culture.

The Moriori soon became a skilled hunter/gatherer society, subsisting primarily on fern root, karaka berries, eels, birds like the penguin, taiko and the large albatross, netted fish, large shellfood and seals.

Most food resources were at hand - the longest treks required were to seasonally cull albatross (image below), which meant travelling to the Pyramid, 56km to the SE of the central meeting place at Waihora, or 69km to the Forty-fours in the east, or 53km to the Sisters in the NW. The preflight birds were particularly valued.
[link to www.zealand.org.nz]

They established a careful working relationship with the environment, taking enough for food and clothing, and never any more. They were conservationists, essential for survival.

For example, they maintained their seal populations largely intact, by limiting the extent to which rookeries could be exploited. At the time of the first sealers, Moriori still had a rookery within 400m of occupations, and a seal population estimated at 20,000, by killing only older male seals, and removing all carcasses which would otherwise deter further breeding.

It worked - Moriori lived half a millenia on these isolated islands, until European sailing ships appeared.

The Island population, 7 tribal groups, stabilised into around 40 small villages, each with up to 50 people, and the central Waihora.

In any hunter/gatherer society, life can be very tenuous, and inter-tribal war can threaten extinction. In fact, such wars are a luxury that can be tolerated by settled/farming societies only because new members can be raised and fed with some degree of assurance that the tribe as a whole will survive.

The Moriori, lacking that assurance, had abandoned warfare.

The chief Nukunuku Whenua established a precept, that disputes would be settled by duel using a stick called tupurari, which was a thumb's thickness and an arm's length - the winner would be the first to draw blood, and the fight would then stop -
"only fight til you draw blood, then stop".

Nunuku had also laid a curse, that should anyone defy the law, "may their bowels rot".

Because the native trees were not suitable for oceangoing canoes, and the original canoes had rotted away, the Moriori were isolated.

This was excaberated by the Little Ice Age around AD1400 when, even if it were possible, ocean-going expeditions would have been more hazardous than ever. The tribes became self-sufficient and contained on their small Island.

In 1791 a European Royal Navy ship, the brig "Chatham", arrived and Lt Broughton immediately claimed the Island for King George III, ignoring the inhabitant's claim to many centuries of prior occupation.

The Moriori and Europeans - representatives each of completely alien races - met each other at Skirmish Bay, and the Europeans, strolling the beach, came between the inhabitants and their canoes, and nets.

That was a dangerous situation for the Moriori. Fishing was survival - to lose boats or nets could mean death.

The locals rushed the sailors in a display of aggression and shots broke out. A musket ball went through the arm and chest of one native, Tamakaroro, and he died.

The Moriori fled and discussed what had happened with these strange beings, and resolved that they had done a bad thing. The Chief's newphew was now dead.

The next day, the natives deliberately laid all their fishing spears on the beach, and the Chief approached the European commander with a length of seaweed, a clear peace symbol. This was accepted.

"The Men were of a middling size .. their Hair, both of the Head and Beard, was black and by some worn long. The young Men had it tied up in a knot on the crown of their Heads; intermixed with black and white feathers....their skin was destitute of any marks, and they had the appearance of being clean ..their dress was either a seal or bear skin, tied with sinnet, inside outwards, round their necks, which fell below their hips; or mats, neatly made, which covered their backs and shoulders.."
remarked Broughton
[link to www.zealand.org.nz]

Inevitably, more ships arrived in the Chathams now that it had been re-discovered, including American whalers, and word soon spread of of this small island that was replete with seals.

By the 1830's all the seals were gone, plundered for their fur.

Without seals, the Moriori had lost a food source, and more importantly, their winter clothing - while Europeans were guaranteed at least another season of fashionable attire.
[link to www.zealand.org.nz]

At the same time, much of the Island bird life was decimated by the sealer's guns.

The Moriori also fell foul of diseases like influenza and VD, of alcohol degradation, and of European guns and European disdain and abuse - but through it all they stayed loyal to the tradition of non-violence.

Europeans also lived on the Island by then, and the Captain of the brig "Bee" reported that there were
"eight to ten runaways on Chatham Islands" - as well as people from other parts of the world (image below) and around 1600 Maori.

In general, both Maori and European regarded the unassuming, peaceful Moriori - who undoubtably were in culture shock, common to races "discovered" and overwhelmed by Europeans through these centuries - as a degenerate and lesser race.
[link to www.zealand.org.nz]
(From Left, Nationalities: Moriori, Maori, Maori, Hawaiian, Moriori, American, Maori, Hawaiian, Azores)

The Moriori, disregarded in their own land, and with their traditional food and clothing resources obliterated, faced a bleak future, despite being described in 1835 as
"cheerful, full of mirth and laughter"

Their future however was about to get very very much worse.
Anonymous Coward
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10/27/2011 11:10 PM
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Re: MYSTERIES of ANCIENT NEW ZEALAND and THE PACIFIC
[link to www.zealand.org.nz]

In New Zealand, the Musket Wars were in full swing, and in late 1835, two tribes, the Ngati Tama and Ngati Mutunga of the Waiarapa, were being harried.

They had to find refuge, and some Maori who had crewed aboard European ships brought stories of an island that was abundant in food - called Wharekauri in Maori, the Chathams in English - the home of the Moriori.

The Ngati Tama and the Ngati Mutunga agreed to invade Wharekauri. They hired the sealer "Bee" to transport them in 2 voyages. Matioro of the Ngati Mutunga, went in the first 3-day journey, after striking a deal with the Ngatio Tama that they would wait for the latter tribe to also arrive before seizing the best land.

In 1833 Matioro arrived. He may have deliberately broken a Moriori tapu to force a confrontation - one man was killed and twelve hung from a tree until nearly dead by the ship's crew, who were clearly not impartial observers.

Matioro was bemusedly described by the Moriori "as having 'strutted and pranced' on the beach in a very arrogant and aggressive manner." (The Musket Wars, RD Crosby, Reed)

It may be Matioro who reported back to his tribe in New Zealand - others suggest it was Te Ururanga, Rihari, Arangata and Te Ira who had returned to NZ in 1834, aboard a whaling ship.

"It is a land of food - he whenua kai! It is full of birds, both land- and sea-birds of all kinds .. with albatross in plenty on the outlying islands. There is an abundance of sea and shellfish; the lakes swarm with eels; and it is a land of the kataka berry .. the inhabitants are very numerous, but they do not understand how to fight, and have no weapons"
[link to www.zealand.org.nz]

In October 1835 the brig "Lord Rodney" was commissioned by the chief Pomare (above) in Wellington harbour, and Captain Harwood ordered to sea, with 500 Ngati Tama aboard.

They had initally been undecided where to head, considering not only the Chatham Islands, but also Norfolk or even Samoa - but eventually agreed to aim for Wharekauri.

Captain Harwood then offloaded his passengers and returned to Wellington to collect 400 Ngati Mutunga, and by the end of the year all 900 Maori were on the Chathams.

The Ngati Tama had built a settlement at Waitangi, so the Ngati Mutunga moved to Whangaroa Harbour.

This was the beginning of the end for the peaceful Moriori.

The Ngati Tama immediately began to scour the Island, armed with muskets, tomahawks and clubs, to "takahi", or "walk the land" - that is, walk across any land they desired, taking whatever they saw as their own, and simply killing anyone - 267 eventually - who objected.

The Moriori recoiled before this blatant intrusion into what they thought was their hospitality, and a meeting of all the tribes assembled, around a 1,000 men, at Te Awapatiki - sacred grove - to discuss what to do about the new arrivals.

The Maori had arrived sick in the Chathams, from dysentry, seasickness and hunger - the Moriori had nursed them back to health. Now those people were killing their people.
[link to www.zealand.org.nz]

Hirawanu Tapu described that at the meeting,
"it was suggested that we should attack the New Zealanders (Maori) and fight them because it was said in our history that they were cannibals. This was rejected because our ancestor Pakehu had put an end to war and cannibalism. There was also .. Nunuku who had confirmed the law .. about 140 chiefs assembled at this meeting .. the decision was that they should be friendly with the New Zealanders"
They still outnumbered the Maori two-to-one, and could have fought, and would probably have driven the Maori into the sea - hunter/gathering breeds strong survivors.

But the Moriori meeting was discovered by the Maori, who immediately interpreted it as a council of war - it is what the Maori would have done in the same circumstances. The Maori immediately attacked.
[link to www.zealand.org.nz]

So the offer of peace was probably not delivered, and even if it had been it would have been interpreted as weak, an act of cowardice. Maori tradition and experience - including their recent flight - would not embrace this notion, that non-violence could have mana, or prestige.

Accordingly, in the words of one of the invaders, Rakatau Katihe,
"we took possession .. in accordance with our customs and we caught all the people. Not one escaped. Some ran away from us, these we killed, and others we killed - but what of that? It was in accordance with our custom .. I am not aware of any of our people being killed by them"

Moriori stayed true to their moral imperative, Nunuku's law of non-violence, even as they and their families were being bludgeoned and speared to death. That is not to say they were not terrified, but their fortitude and courage must have been phenomenal. Pacifism in the face of sure death is hard to imagine.

The Europeans did nothing.

As described by Hirawana Tapu, the invaders
"..commenced to kill us like sheep ..we were terrified, fled to the bush, concealed ourselves in holes underground, and in any place, to escape our enemies. It was of no avail; we were discovered and killed - men, women, and children"
[link to www.zealand.org.nz]

"I was shown a part of a beach on the Chatham Islands on which the bodies of eighty Moriori women were laid side by side, each with an impaling stake driven into the abdomen. It is difficult for one not accustomed to savage warfare to note how shockingly callous and heartless this desecration of the human body made the actors in these terrible scenes."
Edward Tregear "The Maori Race, New Zealand" pub. 1904

The Moriori who were not killed were enslaved, and kept as food stock, some being taken back to New Zealand.

It is hard to imagine the anguish of a slave to be kept working, until one day to be casually tomahawked, and eaten, much as we would despatch a rooster or a turkey.

This continued until at least for another 7 years, and the Europeans still did nothing.
[link to www.zealand.org.nz]

"When the Maoris overcame the gentle Morioris of the Chatham Islands, not only did they keep the captives penned up like live-stock waiting to be killed and eaten, but one of the leading chiefs of the invaders ordered a meal of six children at once to be cooked to regale his friends."
Anonymous Coward
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10/27/2011 11:19 PM
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The conquering Maori had their own immediate conflicts however.

Not content with life on the Chathams, the chief of the Ngati Tama, Meremere, devised a plan to invade Samoa, and he arranged for his warriors to be collected from the beach at Waitangi. The Ngati Mutunga also devised a plan to invade Norfolk Island.

A French whaling vessel, "Jean Bart", arrived at Waitangi, and some of the Maori assembled there came aboard. Matioro wanted the ship to move to Whangaroa to collect his warriors - Meremere wanted it to stay where it was.

Fighting erupted between the assembled Maori and the French were immediately drawn into the battle. The French crew were killed and the ship burnt.

In 1838 the French corvette "Heroine", assisted by the the whalers "Adele" and the "Rebecca Sims" arrived from New Zealand, and Ngati Tama were enjoined to come aboard - and siezed. The gunship then obliterated their settlement at Waitangi and moved on to sack three more settlements at Ouira, Ocean Bay and Whangaroa, as well as destroying seven large waka, irreplaceable canoes.

The women captives were later released, but three Maori, including the chief Ngatuna, were taken back to France - he later committed suicide.

The Ngati Mutunga exploited this depletion of the Ngati Tama to 180 people, by building pa near by, and hostilities were not ended until the NZ Company brokered a peace, and bought the land

Ernst Dieffenbach, of the NZ Company, was horrified by the degradation of the Moriori, now slaves.

".. the misery which they suffer from the oppressive sway of the New Zealanders, and from want of sufficient nourishment ..they are the labourers and porters of their masters, who have no notion of anything like moderation in the labour they exact ; so that ulcerated backs bent almost double, and emaciated paralytic limbs, with diseased lungs, are the ordinary lot .. to whom death must be a blessing"

Koche, a strong Moriori had escaped to sea aboard a whaling ship, and he told his story to a lawyer, Ewing, who recorded all in a journal around 1850.

Koche had been captured and taken to Matioro's house, where he was put to work fishing. he landed a poisonous fish, which he sneaked into a normal catch and delivered to the Matioro's cook before fleeing - she fed some to a dog which immediately died, and Matioro scoured the island for Koche. Eventually Matioro believed that Koch had committed suicide rather than face his wrath.

Koche was hiding on Pitt Island, where he lived a solitary existence for some years, before being caught again by Matioro. Again he escaped, and found refuge on an American whaler. His eventual fate is unknown


Matioro, in 1842, decided to colonise the Auckland Islands, 500 km to the southwest that he had seen from a whaler. He took with him forty Maori, and thirty Moriori slaves to the sub-Antartic island group, where at least two slaves would be murdered, and others die of illness.

Matioro was probably bored, and possibly a little worried. The invasion of Samoa hadn't come off, Christian missionaries had arrived on the Chathams, local warfare was nonexistent - and the French were possibly going to come back and extract more revenge for the destruction of the "Jean Bart".

He chartered the ship "Hannah" for the journey, that had arrived from NZ, which had itself been hijacked by a man named Ellis - who was later arrested, tried and sentenced to life imprisonment on Norfolk Island.

Matioro didn't know that the Islands were not even remotely hospitable, being wind-, sleet-, and snow-swept, and that the soil was peat, incapable of growing the food they planned.

The ship arrived in late 1842, at Port Ross, and the takahi party returned soon with the shocking news - the Islands were desolate. Immediately, the chiefs Tangari Te Uma and Motu-karaka ordered that the ship sail back to the Chathams.

Matiori was essentially shipwrecked with his companions, his slaves (including Rohana, below), their considereable stores, and cannon from the "Jean Bart", and they lived on the Island for the next 14 years.

He built his first pa on Crozier Point, and the colonizers settled into a hard life. Once the stores ran out, they subsisted on potatoes the size of marbles, turnips abnd seal meat.

The Moriori would probably have adapted more easily to the seal diet, and harsh enviornment than would the Maori, but of this time we know very little.

In 1849, the "Samuel Enderby" sailed into Port Ross, and Charles Enderby, who was aboard, had arrived as the head of a group of English colonists who planned a whaling station. They were to be as rudely shocked by conditions as had Matiori.

Enderby proclaimed,
"I am the Lord of the Island. I claim all the land which you are using and all the pigs you possess"
and that was that - Matiori and Ngatere were deputised as constables, and the Moriori continued as slaves.

Despite a visit by Governer Grey in 1850, and the outlawing of slavery in New Zealand ten years earlier.

In 1852 the whaling base was abandoned as a waste of money, and the Europeans left, followed finally by Matiori two years later, with nineteen Maori and twelve Moriori, leaving the chiefs Tapae and Tupara behind. They all went to Stewart Island.

On the Chathams, Tangari Te Uma and Petere Roiri chartered the ship "Lalla Rookh" and made the journey first to Stewart Island to collect Matiori and then on to the Auckland Islands, where they collected the last survivors, arriving at the Chathams in 1856.

Some Moriori remained on Stewart Island, and their descendants moved to the South Island of NZ.

Matioro, back on the Chathams, was now no longer "Chief of all the New Zealanders" as he had been on the Auckland Islands, but he was bellicose as ever.
[link to www.zealand.org.nz]

He is recorded in 1859 by the resident Magistrate, Shand, as having "pursued and forcibly taken back" his slave Rohana, one the Auckland Is. survivors, after she had absconded to marry Hirawanu Tapu.

The constable at Waitangi "could not, or would not venture to interfere" when Rotana was taken back into slavery.



In 1862, some twentyseven years later, Sir George Grey received a letter from Tapu Te Ara asking for help.

"Friend, let no other peoples of the world ask why this people did not hold on to their lands. It was because we were a people who did not know anger or how to fight. The custom of this land was that when one bled and another bled, that was it. We were a people who dwelt in peace, who did not believe in killing and eating their own kind. Our word for that kind of person is kaupeke: a flesh-eating demon. The manner of this people was like a flock of lost sheep .. when the shepherd went away, the wild dog came to eat them .. Friend, we must have the rights to our own lands, because we are the rightful owners of our ancestors' home - of that land planted here by God at the time our forefathers arrived in this place .."


Grey did nothing, despite the presence on the Island of a Magistrate since 1855. It was not until 1863 that a general manumission was declared.

The NZ Government decided in 1866 to use the Chathams as a perfect place to send it's own Maori prisoners from the Land Wars, in short, to make it a penal colony, and the first "hauhau" prisoners arrived, 43 men and 25 wives and children.

Most Maori however had left the Island, and were back in New Zealand, by 1870.

They returned immediately for a Native Land Court sitting to examine Moriori claims for their land back. The Moriori did not succeed - despite clear evidence of the invasion and seizure by arms, the Court basically ruled that the invasion and current occupation nullified previous land titles.

In other words, the New Zealand Native Land Court ruled that because the land had been seized by force of arms, and had then been continually cultivated by the invaders - then from henceforth, they owned it. Maori were awarded title to 97.7% of the Chatham Islands lands.

It was a real politik solution for the NZ Government - Maori had to be present at the Land Court, which meant they couldn't be stirring up trouble in New Zealand. The granting of title to land acquired by killing the owners was a matter of decree.

Slavery was not outlawed in the Chathams until 1863.

At the time of Tapu Te Ara's plea to Governor Grey, the Moriori population was down to 101, and by 1900, there were only a handful of Moriori alive, and the last full-blooded Moriori, Tame Horomana Rehe Solomon, (below) or Tommy Solomon, died at the age of 48 in 1933.
[link to www.zealand.org.nz]

Some of Tommy Solomon's descendants live in New Zealand, and some still on the Chathams, like the Preece family.

Several studies of Moriori culture and history have been published by the Polynesian Society of New Zealand.

One paper, "The Moriori People of the Chatham Islands - their history and traditions" vol II, dated 1911, was by Alexander Shand, a collection of tales,and legends, with some chants and songs, written in the original language and partly translated into English.

Two later studies, one published in 1923, were by the Bavard Dominick expedition, of Honolulu,"The Moriori of the Chatham Islands, Berne P Bishop, vol XI, no 1" and by H D Skinner and William Bauke "The Moriori of the Chatham Islands, Berne P Bishop, vol XI, no 5" .

The Honolulu paper has two photographs of Moriori bone flutes, one with finger holes.
[link to www.zealand.org.nz]

The Moriori are remembered for their solemn, simplistic but eerily evocative - almost other-worldly images - the tree carvings ("dendroglyphs") left on the Island.
[link to www.zealand.org.nz]

In June 2001, the NZ Govt's Waitangi Tribunal recommended that the Moriori people be compensated for slavery, loss of land and hardship, and that it was 'patently wrong' to grant 97 percent of the land to Ngati Mutunga.

[link to www.zealand.org.nz]
Anonymous Coward
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10/28/2011 01:58 AM
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Re: MYSTERIES of ANCIENT NEW ZEALAND and THE PACIFIC
Hundreds of images of moriori people, then and now

[link to www.google.co.nz]
Anonymous Coward
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10/28/2011 02:02 AM
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Images of the chatham islands

[link to www.google.co.nz]
Anonymous Coward
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Blog of Dr. Miland Brown that features different aspects of world history. Not everything can be covered but sites dealing with any historical issue or topic are possible future posts. Also includes sites which discuss teaching history. Dr. Brown is an academic in North America.

"The Genocide of the Moriori on the Chatham Islands
I am currently reading Guns, Germs, and Steel by Jared Diamond. It is an excellent book. I have learned a lot already.

One new set of facts I have discovered is the fate of the Moriori who lived on the Chatham Islands. They were subjected to one of the worst genocides of the 19th century. The aggressors in this tragedy were Maori from New Zealand.

The archipelago of the Chatham Islands consists of about 10 islands. The islands are located at about roughly 800 km east of Christchurch, New Zealand. The islands have politically been a part of New Zealand since 1842.

Wikipedia has an account of the Maori invasion of the Chatham Islands. It notes, "On November 19, 1835, a British ship carrying 500 Māori armed with guns, clubs and axes arrived, followed by another ship on December 5, 1835 with a further 400 Māori. They proceeded to massacre the Moriori and enslave the survivors...After the invasion, Moriori were forbidden to marry Moriori, nor to have children with each other. All became slaves of the Ngati Tama and Ngati Mutunga invaders. Many died from despair. Many Moriori women had children to their Maori masters. A small amount of Moriori women eventually married either Maori or European men. Some were taken from the Chathams and never returned."

Diamond wrote, ""[The Māori] commenced to kill us like sheep.... [We] were terrified, fled to the bush, concealed ourselves in holes underground, and in any place to escape our enemies. It was of no avail; we were discovered and killed - men, women and children indiscriminately". A Māori conqueror justified their actions as follows: "We took possession... in accordance with our customs and we caught all the people. Not one escaped....." (p. 54).


Diamond explained some of the success of the Maori on the fact that they were a society with an agricultural base which could produce luxuries like warriors while the Moriori were a hunter-gatherer society which did not have wars. In addition, the Moriori were pacifists and they were trying to negotiate a settlement with the Maori as they were slaughtered. They did not understand the nature of their enemy.

I am sorry to learn of this tragedy. However, I am still glad I am aware of it now. I am sure I will learn more from this Diamond book."

[link to www.worldhistoryblog.com]
Anonymous Coward
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The first people of new zealand

`Pushing history back beyond our real time’ – original article appeared in Sunday Star-Times, April 1998

`Archaeological researchers are throwing new light on the age-old questions: Who got here first?’

A court case in the South Island which sees the Waitaha tribe seeking a judicial review to have its name removed from the Ngai Tahu settlement legislation is yet another step in an issue that has been simmering for many years: Just who were the first people to settle this country?

The answer might be a lot more complex and intriguing than once believed.

The Waitaha say they occupied the South Island long before Ngai Tahu came on the scene and they do not want to be included or receive money in the Ngai Tahu settlement as they are a separate tribe. Waitaha leader Rangimarie Te Maiharaoa says the settlement will “extinguish customary rights and aboriginal title of our people”.

In a not dissimilar case in 1994 Chatham Island Moriori put forward a claim for land, fisheries and official recognition as a first people, saying they were overrun by Taranaki Maori in 1835 and, as a result of their non-violent stance, ended up being enslaved or killed.

Moriori spokesman Maui Soloman said the crown had broken its obligation under the Treaty of Waitangi by not ensuring the court took into account Moriori tradition and perpetrating Victorian myths about the origins and nature of Moriori society.

[link to www.lodestarmedia.co.nz]
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Now a growing body of evidence from the divergent fields of science, history, archaeology and oral genealogical information is showing the human history of the first people of New Zealand stretches far further back than the great canoe migration from the Pacific around 1350AD.

Ten years ago Auckland University archaeologist Doug Sutton was among the first to claim human were here up to 2000 yeas ago. He based this on evidence of burn-offs and unexplained soil erosion, and sand dune movement. At the time his claims were largely dismissed.

But the subject got more attention in late 1996 when Christchurch scientist Dr Richard Holdaway carbon dated bones of a Polynesian rat (kiore) he had found in a Takaka cave that showed humans were probably here 1200 years earlier than previously thought.

Dr Holdaway, whose findings were published in the scientific journal Nature, says the rats could not have arrived here without people. His radio carbon dating has been verified by experts both here and overseas.

Just last month the theory was further advanced when bones believed to be from the extinct Finsche’s duck were found in Hawke’s Bay. What makes them so pertinent is that they are encased in volcanic ash (ignimbrite) from the massive Taupo eruption of 232AD. If radio carbon dating of the bones matched the date of the Taupo eruption any arguments on the accuracy of such dating of small birds and rats is over.

Then there is the intriguing case of an ancient carving now being held at the Dargaville Maritime Museum in Northland. The carving – kept secret since its discovery six years ago – was first announced to the public early in 1997 after being restored at Auckland University.

Museum curator and renowned historian Noel Hilliam says the rare 2.7m female carving is Waitaha and was found in sand dunes at North Head on Kaipara Harbour by a local woman.

There is also much talk in the area about a buried first people Waitaha village in the Kaipara dunes that first made an appearance several years ago when a fierce storm temporarily shifted sand. There are plans to raise the finance needed to excavate the site.

Now a growing body of evidence from the divergent fields of science, history, archaeology and oral genealogical information is showing the human history of the first people of New Zealand stretches far further back than the great canoe migration from the Pacific around 1350AD.

Ten years ago Auckland University archaeologist Doug Sutton was among the first to claim human were here up to 2000 yeas ago. He based this on evidence of burn-offs and unexplained soil erosion, and sand dune movement. At the time his claims were largely dismissed.

But the subject got more attention in late 1996 when Christchurch scientist Dr Richard Holdaway carbon dated bones of a Polynesian rat (kiore) he had found in a Takaka cave that showed humans were probably here 1200 years earlier than previously thought.

Dr Holdaway, whose findings were published in the scientific journal Nature, says the rats could not have arrived here without people. His radio carbon dating has been verified by experts both here and overseas.

Just last month the theory was further advanced when bones believed to be from the extinct Finsche’s duck were found in Hawke’s Bay. What makes them so pertinent is that they are encased in volcanic ash (ignimbrite) from the massive Taupo eruption of 232AD. If radio carbon dating of the bones matched the date of the Taupo eruption any arguments on the accuracy of such dating of small birds and rats is over.

Then there is the intriguing case of an ancient carving now being held at the Dargaville Maritime Museum in Northland. The carving – kept secret since its discovery six years ago – was first announced to the public early in 1997 after being restored at Auckland University.

Museum curator and renowned historian Noel Hilliam says the rare 2.7m female carving is Waitaha and was found in sand dunes at North Head on Kaipara Harbour by a local woman.

There is also much talk in the area about a buried first people Waitaha village in the Kaipara dunes that first made an appearance several years ago when a fierce storm temporarily shifted sand. There are plans to raise the finance needed to excavate the site.
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No less than five people are writing books about our lost history. The work includes that of Australian Alan Seath, a specialist in archeoastronomy, who says huge stoneworks and modified hills here indicate an ancient civilisation was once adept at reading the movement of stars.

Napier author John Tasker has spent several years researching and writing his book Myth and Mystery (published late last year) which raised questions about Portuguese visitors to New Zealand.

Some of the most fascinating research is being compiled by journalist Gary Cook, who for the past three years has been extensively investigating, photographing and recording stone megaliths, domes, observatories and ritual burial sites with his small team.

Mr Cook says he has seen much work and art forms that are not of Maori origin. One of his biggest finds was in Waipoua Forest in Northland, which he says is a treasure trove of pre-Maori stone structures. What makes them intriguing is that the area was subject to a three-year $500,000 survey by the Forest Service (now DoC) in the mid-80s.

A 75-year embargo until 2063 was placed on the release of 300 pages of documents on the site. Although Mr Cook was able to get some material released through the Official Information Act, what still eludes him is information on radio carbon dating of up to 16 sites in a 242 ha area with nearly 2000 stones structures. His book, The Secret Land, is to be published early next year.

Another pondering the puzzle is Australian historian and author Rex Gilroy, who maintains Stone Age first people races preceded the Aborigines in Australia and the Polynesians in the Pacific. He says a ghostly trial of steeped pyramids and other stone structures point to Phoenician, Egyptian and Libyan relics.
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Anonymous Coward
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Hey ra, i found exactly what we wanted.

What is most incredible are Mr Brailsford's claims the Waitaha comprised three different peoples: The Moriori, who at the time were giants, over 1.8m and superb gardeners, able to grow the kumara 1000km further south than in its South American homeland; the Urukehu, a fair-skinned people also known as the Starwalkers who were skilled at reading the geometry of the stars and were the navigators guiding the people to this land; and the Kiritea or Stone people, who came from Asian lands (Mr Brailsford says you can see depiction of them on some maraes where all the ancestors are shown) and who carried the greenstone over mountain passes.
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The next quite a few posts are going to be extracts from 'Song of waitaha'

Dedication
Within these pages we share our ancient knowledge, the treasure of our past. Our decision to reveal this taonga was not taken lightly, for until now it has been protected by silence. We give it to all people of this land in the hope it will help us walk the path of mutual trust and understanding.

Where pain walks today, there will be healing tomorrow. Where misunderstanding falls, tolerance will stand. There are wider horizons from the mountain tops and the sweeping shorelines. There are old trails that lead on to new worlds. It is time to gain inspiration from the past to guide us into the future. We journey with the vision that the traditions recorded in the land will become the shared inheritance of all who call it home.

The words and pictures we place in your care are dedicated to the children of Aotearoa, for they are our future. These taonga speak of the ancient ones who lived in harmony with the land and each other. Our dream is of one whanau that nurtures and provides for all within this beautiful land. Where one nation leads others may follow.

May the wisdom of old be a force for good, today and tomorrow, and in all our tomorrows.

‘Kia tuohu ai tatou, mo aianei, mo apopo, mo ake tonu atu’

Te Uri O Te Pani Manawatu,
Tuahiwi, 1989
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UNTIL NOW WE HAVE HIDDEN OUR BEGINNINGS, and all that followed, in the shadows. In this way we protected our knowledge in the silence of the Whare Wananga, the School of Learning of Waitaha.

Tuatara, the Keeper of Knowledge, guards the trails to the realms of the mind and spirit that give us life. We lead you past Tuatara, our ever vigilant kaitaki, and invite you to share the words and wisdom of our ancestors. For it has been decided it is time for our treasures to be brought into the light.

Ruia, Ruia, Ruia nga kakano I Ruia mai i Rangi Atea…We do this for the children, and their children, and all who call this land home.

With these words we begin to tell for the first time the sacred Histories of the peoples of the Nation of Waitaha. Once we were like the sands upon the beaches, a great, a great multitude who knew these shores. Now we are few, but we take courage from the taonga we still hold, because we have kept intact the most ancient songs of the ancestors.

Waitaha is older than old. Much of the history of this land is our history. We kept safe the knowledge of the Tides of Life that flow from Marama, the Moon.

Our Star Walkers joined the stars to the land. Our Water Seekers explored the rivers and tested their waters, and the remotest mountains knew the tread of their feet. Our Water Carriers planted kumara vines to clothe the nakedness of Papatuanuku. Our Stone Shapers brought Pounamu to the peoples of this land and others beyond the distant horizons. Our Sea Gardeners nurtured the many children of Tangaroa.

We are of Tane Mahuta, and we follow Rongo Marae Roa, the God of Peace.
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The Joining of the Tides of Life
‘Stand in Te kohanga…Feel the Wairua in the land’

IT SPEAKS OF THE BEGINNING OF LIFE, the meeting of the waters of the Old Tides, the joining, and of Io Mata Ngaro, the Supreme One.

And it tells of the birth of the Gods, the parting of the Parents by Tane Mahuta, the light of the first dawn, the beginning of time, the conflict of the brothers that rages to this day, the making of Hine Ahu One, the first woman, the anguish of her daughter Hine Ti Tama and Hine Nui Te Po, the woman of the Darkest Night who leads us by the hand to death.

Know you stand in the centre of the Waka of the Gods, surrounded by our ancestors turned to stone. And that here you touch scared ground where each moment of the Creation, from the first breath of life to the last sigh of death, is remembered in the stone around you.

We are of Io. We are of the Gods and the dreams of ancestors. We are of the Nation of Waitaha. And we follow the trails of Rongo Marae Roa, the God of Peace.
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‘Below Us We Saw The Smoke Of Cooking Fires And Came To Waikari’
After many seasons with the eels of the lakelands, we once again broke camp and carried the timbers of our dwellings. Our trail songs echoed back to Te Ata Po and the waters of Waimaringaringa, and the sound of children at play joined with the bird song. And we throught of Ruawai, who was lost to the trail, and those who would come to carry the Mana in the nights still waiting to be written in the flames. And we knew they would walk bravely as he walked bravely.

Te Hurunui, the river of many braids of hair, led us from the lakes to the open country of Waikari. And we looked down from the heights to see the smoke of cooking fires. And we came to a village. We were warmly welcomed to their hearths, for we sat with companions of the Long Tides, our brothers and sisters of Waitaha.

We gazed in admiration at the gardens. The children of this village were born of those who took the tapu sail of Arai Te Uru to the headland and made gardens at Te Waikawa o Omaka. While we journeyed through the mountains, the Water Carriers of Waitaha followed their own trails to new gardens and bountiful harvests. And in time they came here to grow kumara in the limestone valleys where Hine Hoanga gave her many favours to the land.

The songs of Tama Ki Te Ra led them to these gentle hills. And the Tohunga sent smoke trails over the land and found sheltered places open to the Sun. And they took their ko and dug drains and built stone walls to shelter the kumara. And the crops grew well until the harsh frosts came. And then they perished.
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The Story of The Waka of the Gods
THE OLD TIDES ARE THE ANCIENT TIDES, the waters of Creation. And the Gods made a mighty Waka to sail those sacred oceans, the ones we named Tai Rehua and Tai Rehia. And that wonderful vessel was overwhelmed by the Deluge.

Mokopuna, young one, son of my son, let us travel to the wildest waters and voyage with the Waka of the Gods.

In the days of old the ancestors waited each season for the arrival of the greatest of all Waka. And as it drew near they told their children what they were about to see…

‘Look for the finely carved stern post reaching for the stars. See the proud prow cutting a great wave coloured by rainbows and know the Gods use their wonderful powers to send the Waka swiftly through the waters.

Do not be afraid when shadows fall over the land, that is only the tall sail shutting out the Sun. Remember it has two huge hulls, one is Aotea Mai Rangi and the other Aotea Roa, and magic ropes bind their timbers to ride the turbulent waters of the Old Tides’.

Our ancestors loved the Waka of the Gods that came by year after year. Then it sailed by no more. Season after season they searched for it but it never returned. So they asked their wisest ones to seek it in the mists of the past. Looking deeply into yesterday they saw Mahuru and his wife Hione, the keepers of the Waka, bid it farewell on distant shores. And they saw angry stars gathering close to the Moon to give birth to the Tides of Chaos, the dreaded Deluge. And a terrible tragedy unfolded before them.

Far beyond the veiled horizon, seas began to climb to terrible heights before rolling out to attack all in their path. Dar storm winds shredded the clouds, swept birds from the sky, sucked fish put of the water and smashed them into the sail. Cold hands struggled to lower it before the Waka capsized. Valiant was their strength but sudden winds bent the tall mast and the hull of Aotea Mai Rangi was forced beneath the waves. It surfaced but wallowed deep within. Then winds gained new strength from the gathered starts to push the Waka relentlessly across the wild waters.

Suddenly, agony pierced the hull of Aotea Mai Rangi. Timbers shattered as jagged teeth of rock broke through to open all to the raging tides . A hidden reef marked its doom. Desperately, the Tohunga cried to the Guardian Taniwha to save the Waka…

‘Hear us, mighty one. We are at the end of our strength and cannot bail fast enough to stem the tide. Send the waters back to the sea. Make the Waka ride high upon the waves. Come soon or we will perish in the tides.’

The karakia was too long. Aotea Mai Rangi began to sink before the Taniwha appeared. Moving swiftly, the Commander slashed the bindings to part the hulls and set Aotea Roa free as brave Aotea Mai Rangi slid beneath the waves.
KAITIAKI

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10/28/2011 03:17 AM
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The whole raglan/ port waikato area was a hugely poulated area in ancient times. There is so much there.Have you been to the enscribed boulders on whale bay beach?
The final home and massacre site of that scottish clan i posted about was not far from there.
 Quoting: Tauranga


I think i know the place, its the area ive been exploring

There is a campany which planes to build a wind farm down there, conincidance the places best suited for the windmills are ancient occupation sites, it appares the company has managed to buy off the local iwi, who dont care of these sites, because it wasnt there people. Very convinient, so im trying to get out there as much as i can before major distruction takes place, I know the iwi were looking for people to document the sites in that area, cause i put my hand up, when i heard about it, from the insider that told me, no reply yet, so it might have just been a ploy to make it look as if they cared.

WAIKATO WINDS FARM PROJECT CLUSTERS A
AND D (SUNSET VIEWS, RAMSDEN AND
LIMESTONE DOWNS): ARCHAEOLOGICAL
ASSESSMENT

[link to www.contactenergy.co.nz]


I'm not quite sure where you mean you are moving to, but i think you mean that general part of nz?

There are more than one giant carved tuatara at headland places in nz...
 Quoting: Tauranga


Im moveing to Te Kohunga, on the 5th of November(bout 10 minites down river from the Tuakau bridge, to my partners parents house, they going through some difficulties and my partner wants to help them out, she asked me ways in which we can help them, without outright giving them cash, i dont believe in fixing someones problems, put ill rather address the cause so it don't happen again, moving down there was the best option, and its only for a year. Im glad, because we have been getting comfortable, we need a shake up, make ourself uncomfortable. So we renting out a 3 times 6 meter, portable unit, so we get our own space, the 3 boys will stay inside, with there grandparents.

I get to move closer, to the port waikato region where all those intereing things been found, plus fishing and sunset beach lol.

Less Neigbours lol, cause im currently in Tuakau Town, and less light polution, so ill realy be able to put to work an awesum teliscope i brought a few years ago.

Everything seems to be fitting in nicely, gona be a good summer.....

My father inlaw, is cuzin to the maori king, my partner is maori royalty(tainui).

There house is just beneath the head, of this lizard, there are depressions in the ground on the actully head of the lizard, where the a chife of that region had his house, faceing the east, so he could wake up every morning to the riseing sun.

Ive ridden up the spine of it, when i stayed at the local marare(meeting house), for a hui(meeting) one weekend. We got to go on a Quad bike tour with riverland adventures,touring all the ancient sites in the area, along part of old maori highways, which they used to run for miles with ease. The guide is my partners uncle and he told us the history and legends connected to each area we visited.

There is old maori highway running down the coast to ragland, my partners Uncle the guide, knows it, the history and walks it regular. (another bonuse for moving to te kohunga, thats were they are situated)

Awesum exsperence......

Riverland Adventures
[link to www.riverlandadventures.co.nz]
 Quoting: Ra 4146858


Bro, if you get the chance, while out exploring, go past Raglan, take the coast road to Aotea, there is a waterfall along the road, there are kehua there, try and get there early in the morning, then go to Aotea Harbour, lotsa spiritual vibes there, i think the waka is still in the dunes, uncovers sometimes.
Take the road over to Kawhia !, I saw my best UFO in Kawhia with a good mate, lotsa UFO sightings in that area.
There is a few ancient Pa sies in the dunes, about halfway between Kawhia and Aotea in the Dunes there is a sand hole !!, very trippy, it's a hole that the sand falls into, continuously, about 20mtrs round, an old diviner told me it was the source of the hot water that runs underground in the district and ends up out at ocean beach.
You can parkup in hot springs at low tide !, did a few sundets out there.
I trekked the dunes to the sand hole, on the hike back to town I came across a Pa Site (I thought) (later confirmed by an acheologist, possibly a TeRauparaha whanau site, My Lot), was a very still, silent place, I saw/felt Kehua/Patu paiarere people there. (when I say saw, its like seeing people out of the side of your eye but when you look directly they aint thea, had this since 11yrs old)
I spent a few years exploring around there, Tainui Land, well worth some time IMO.

Hey T, excellent thread Bro !, been flat out but am reading !

Nice to see lotsa good korero going on here !!

bump

Last Edited by KAITIAKI on 10/28/2011 03:19 AM
Lucy
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10/28/2011 03:20 AM
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Re: MYSTERIES of ANCIENT NEW ZEALAND and THE PACIFIC
Yawnbsflag
KAITIAKI

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10/28/2011 03:28 AM
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Yawnbsflag
 Quoting: Lucy 1314702


you should go to sleep Bro !, or is yawn just a way to say your an ignorant wanker ?

smile_kissyak
Quanta
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10/28/2011 03:42 AM
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Interesting book.....

THE Aryan Maori.

"The discovery of a new world" is tlie expression
used by a great German thinker in regard to the
Avonderful widening of human knowledge which arose
with the birth of Philology. To learn that many
nations, separated by distance, by ages of strife and
bloodshed, by differing religious creeds, and by
ancient customs, yet had a common source of birth,
that their forefathers spoke the same tongue, and
sat in one council-hall, was as delightful to the man
of pure intellect, as it was valuable to the student of
history. New fields of thought, endless paths of
inquiry, opened before the feet of the worker, bring-
ing reward at every mental step, and promising
always new delights beyond. Comparative Philology
and Comparative Mythology are the two youngest and
fairest daughters of Knowledge.

In using the name '' Maori " I shall confine it gene-
rally to the Maori of New Zealand, as being the type
best known to myself; yet, in its larger sense, I in-
clude the Maori spoken of in the following extract,
wherein Mr. Sterndale, treating of the light-coloured
branch of the Polynesian islanders and comparing
them with those of New Zealand, says, ^^ Their lan-
guage is so far identical that they readily under-
stand one another, without the intervention of an in-
terpreter. Their social customs are analogous ; their
traditions and habits of thinking are the same. They
have but one ancient name whereby they distinguisli
themselves from the rest of humanity — Maori."^

I now proceed to assert —
Positively,

1. That the Maori is an Aryan.

2. That his language and traditions prove him to

be the descendant of a pastoral people,
afterwards warlike and migratory.

3. That his language has preserved, in an almost

inconceivable purity, the speech of his
Aryan forefathers, and compared witb
which the Greek and Latin tongues are
mere corruptions.

4. That this language has embalmed the memory
of animals, implements, &c., the actual
sight of which has been lost to the Maori
for centuries.
Probably,

1. That he left India about four thousand years

ago.

2. That he has been in New Zealand almost as

long as that time.

To prove these bold assertions is my task in the
following chapters.

[link to www.archive.org]
 Quoting: Royal Assassin


About an hour into this.. Simply blown away. I lived a year or so in Fiji and it has answered many questions thus far for me. .. Thank you and the op ...


I knew there was a connection. ;)
Anonymous Coward
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10/28/2011 04:28 AM
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Hiya ra,

I somehow missed one of your earlier posts.

Wow you are so lucky to be moving there!
I have never lived out there but had a truck for years and spent months out at raglan.

And a fair bit of exploring 'the port waikato side.

Hamilton born and bred, lived there nearly 50years so i know raglan well.

Sorry i cant answer everything you said, but i am on phone, boy has laptop at mo.

And dial up is down. so it might be phone all night.

Hopefully will catch you later if i have missed you now.

When i am back on laptop i will answer anything i missed.

Hey, great that i found a description of waitaha peoples isn't it.

I am so buzzing about having a research partner!
Anonymous Coward
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10/28/2011 04:38 AM
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Interesting book.....

THE Aryan Maori.

"The discovery of a new world" is tlie expression
used by a great German thinker in regard to the
Avonderful widening of human knowledge which arose
with the birth of Philology. To learn that many
nations, separated by distance, by ages of strife and
bloodshed, by differing religious creeds, and by
ancient customs, yet had a common source of birth,
that their forefathers spoke the same tongue, and
sat in one council-hall, was as delightful to the man
of pure intellect, as it was valuable to the student of
history. New fields of thought, endless paths of
inquiry, opened before the feet of the worker, bring-
ing reward at every mental step, and promising
always new delights beyond. Comparative Philology
and Comparative Mythology are the two youngest and
fairest daughters of Knowledge.

In using the name '' Maori " I shall confine it gene-
rally to the Maori of New Zealand, as being the type
best known to myself; yet, in its larger sense, I in-
clude the Maori spoken of in the following extract,
wherein Mr. Sterndale, treating of the light-coloured
branch of the Polynesian islanders and comparing
them with those of New Zealand, says, ^^ Their lan-
guage is so far identical that they readily under-
stand one another, without the intervention of an in-
terpreter. Their social customs are analogous ; their
traditions and habits of thinking are the same. They
have but one ancient name whereby they distinguisli
themselves from the rest of humanity — Maori."^

I now proceed to assert —
Positively,

1. That the Maori is an Aryan.

2. That his language and traditions prove him to

be the descendant of a pastoral people,
afterwards warlike and migratory.

3. That his language has preserved, in an almost

inconceivable purity, the speech of his
Aryan forefathers, and compared witb
which the Greek and Latin tongues are
mere corruptions.

4. That this language has embalmed the memory
of animals, implements, &c., the actual
sight of which has been lost to the Maori
for centuries.
Probably,

1. That he left India about four thousand years

ago.

2. That he has been in New Zealand almost as

long as that time.

To prove these bold assertions is my task in the
following chapters.

[link to www.archive.org]
 Quoting: Royal Assassin


About an hour into this.. Simply blown away. I lived a year or so in Fiji and it has answered many questions thus far for me. .. Thank you and the op ...


I knew there was a connection. ;)
 Quoting: Quanta 4107188


Hello, it is my pleasure, i love ancient history so much.

Hey i havent hardly started yet!

Only half way through nz still, and then there is australia, pacific, more easter island, and..of course mu/lemuria

Because the pacific islands hold an incredicle amount of amazing, ancient structures, legends etc, so that certainly points to a landmass in the pacific once.

And because of birds and stuff even mainstream think that too.
Anonymous Coward
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10/28/2011 05:03 AM
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Hiya kaitiaki,

Thank you so much, it means alot to me that you love this thread.

Man this planet and we have one hell of a past dont we.

Have you lived around raglan , aotea area? you know it well.

Have you been to ruapuke?

Maybe that is where you are describing to ra.

I have had some other world experiences around those parts too.

Now i reckon you, ra, me and our families should meet up at ruapuke for a weekend at the campground and some exploring!

We found a site there too.

Its freaky how much gets uncovered in the sandhills there, and the limestone in that part of nz is absolutely wicked!

I love limestone so much.

Good fishing at ruapuke too...

Hey bro i wish you had more time to post on my threads!!

Now please can you verify something for me over on the quake thrdad?

You see i count 26 quakes yesterday, 1.9 mag up.

And today at 2pm-ish we already had 26 quakes today.
On quakemapnz i mean with the parameters stretched out.

You know who had 3 listed at that point and quake map showed 52!!

Some kiwi AC is telling me i am wrong but i dont see how, i am just reading straight from their listings. Help, bro...you know more than me about quakes!
Quanta
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Australia
10/28/2011 05:37 AM
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"Hello, it is my pleasure, i love ancient history so much.

Hey i havent hardly started yet!

Only half way through nz still, and then there is australia, pacific, more easter island, and..of course mu/lemuria

Because the pacific islands hold an incredicle amount of amazing, ancient structures, legends etc, so that certainly points to a landmass in the pacific once.

And because of birds and stuff even mainstream think that too."

G'day back. I love History so much also. At school it was the only thing I did not have to revise. It all went straight in and stayed [mostly] Shame they taught us so little!

I've bookmarked this thread for later perusal ... far too much for one sitting.

Perhaps I shall visit in the future to express the little knowledge I have of the Fijian 'langer'. Or Vosa. [to speak] Vosa Levu [levu-large]

I was in PNG once and little was lik lik and in Fiji>> Li Li. And in Bali .. Lima is 5 .. same as F1J1. While Dua Rua means 1 2 in Fiji and the opposite in Bali. ie. 2 1. Rua Dua.

There is a thread here OP that has not yet been woven.

Oui via vosu levu eko mataka. Sot a tali ne mataka. Ra Ra Vinaka. Ngongi Tau.

Rough spelling.;)

A rough translation ... I want to talk much to you tomorrow. Till tomorrow. Thank you very much my friend.

~Q~
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 4182213
New Zealand
10/28/2011 05:56 AM
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Re: MYSTERIES of ANCIENT NEW ZEALAND and THE PACIFIC
"Hello, it is my pleasure, i love ancient history so much.

Hey i havent hardly started yet!

Only half way through nz still, and then there is australia, pacific, more easter island, and..of course mu/lemuria

Because the pacific islands hold an incredicle amount of amazing, ancient structures, legends etc, so that certainly points to a landmass in the pacific once.

And because of birds and stuff even mainstream think that too."

G'day back. I love History so much also. At school it was the only thing I did not have to revise. It all went straight in and stayed [mostly] Shame they taught us so little!

I've bookmarked this thread for later perusal ... far too much for one sitting.

Perhaps I shall visit in the future to express the little knowledge I have of the Fijian 'langer'. Or Vosa. [to speak] Vosa Levu [levu-large]

I was in PNG once and little was lik lik and in Fiji>> Li Li. And in Bali .. Lima is 5 .. same as F1J1. While Dua Rua means 1 2 in Fiji and the opposite in Bali. ie. 2 1. Rua Dua.

There is a thread here OP that has not yet been woven.

Oui via vosu levu eko mataka. Sot a tali ne mataka. Ra Ra Vinaka. Ngongi Tau.

Rough spelling.;)

A rough translation ... I want to talk much to you tomorrow. Till tomorrow. Thank you very much my friend.

~Q~
 Quoting: Quanta 4107188


Cool as, i would love your input.

Talk to you soon friend.

Have a great evening.

what part of oz are you? And what time is it there?

Its 10.59pm here.
Ra
User ID: 4221463
New Zealand
10/28/2011 08:40 PM
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Re: MYSTERIES of ANCIENT NEW ZEALAND and THE PACIFIC
The whole raglan/ port waikato area was a hugely poulated area in ancient times. There is so much there.Have you been to the enscribed boulders on whale bay beach?
The final home and massacre site of that scottish clan i posted about was not far from there.
 Quoting: Tauranga


I think i know the place, its the area ive been exploring

There is a campany which planes to build a wind farm down there, conincidance the places best suited for the windmills are ancient occupation sites, it appares the company has managed to buy off the local iwi, who dont care of these sites, because it wasnt there people. Very convinient, so im trying to get out there as much as i can before major distruction takes place, I know the iwi were looking for people to document the sites in that area, cause i put my hand up, when i heard about it, from the insider that told me, no reply yet, so it might have just been a ploy to make it look as if they cared.

WAIKATO WINDS FARM PROJECT CLUSTERS A
AND D (SUNSET VIEWS, RAMSDEN AND
LIMESTONE DOWNS): ARCHAEOLOGICAL
ASSESSMENT

[link to www.contactenergy.co.nz]


I'm not quite sure where you mean you are moving to, but i think you mean that general part of nz?

There are more than one giant carved tuatara at headland places in nz...
 Quoting: Tauranga


Im moveing to Te Kohunga, on the 5th of November(bout 10 minites down river from the Tuakau bridge, to my partners parents house, they going through some difficulties and my partner wants to help them out, she asked me ways in which we can help them, without outright giving them cash, i dont believe in fixing someones problems, put ill rather address the cause so it don't happen again, moving down there was the best option, and its only for a year. Im glad, because we have been getting comfortable, we need a shake up, make ourself uncomfortable. So we renting out a 3 times 6 meter, portable unit, so we get our own space, the 3 boys will stay inside, with there grandparents.

I get to move closer, to the port waikato region where all those intereing things been found, plus fishing and sunset beach lol.

Less Neigbours lol, cause im currently in Tuakau Town, and less light polution, so ill realy be able to put to work an awesum teliscope i brought a few years ago.

Everything seems to be fitting in nicely, gona be a good summer.....

My father inlaw, is cuzin to the maori king, my partner is maori royalty(tainui).

There house is just beneath the head, of this lizard, there are depressions in the ground on the actully head of the lizard, where the a chife of that region had his house, faceing the east, so he could wake up every morning to the riseing sun.

Ive ridden up the spine of it, when i stayed at the local marare(meeting house), for a hui(meeting) one weekend. We got to go on a Quad bike tour with riverland adventures,touring all the ancient sites in the area, along part of old maori highways, which they used to run for miles with ease. The guide is my partners uncle and he told us the history and legends connected to each area we visited.

There is old maori highway running down the coast to ragland, my partners Uncle the guide, knows it, the history and walks it regular. (another bonuse for moving to te kohunga, thats were they are situated)

Awesum exsperence......

Riverland Adventures
[link to www.riverlandadventures.co.nz]
 Quoting: Ra 4146858


Bro, if you get the chance, while out exploring, go past Raglan, take the coast road to Aotea, there is a waterfall along the road, there are kehua there, try and get there early in the morning, then go to Aotea Harbour, lotsa spiritual vibes there, i think the waka is still in the dunes, uncovers sometimes.
Take the road over to Kawhia !, I saw my best UFO in Kawhia with a good mate, lotsa UFO sightings in that area.
There is a few ancient Pa sies in the dunes, about halfway between Kawhia and Aotea in the Dunes there is a sand hole !!, very trippy, it's a hole that the sand falls into, continuously, about 20mtrs round, an old diviner told me it was the source of the hot water that runs underground in the district and ends up out at ocean beach.
You can parkup in hot springs at low tide !, did a few sundets out there.
I trekked the dunes to the sand hole, on the hike back to town I came across a Pa Site (I thought) (later confirmed by an acheologist, possibly a TeRauparaha whanau site, My Lot), was a very still, silent place, I saw/felt Kehua/Patu paiarere people there. (when I say saw, its like seeing people out of the side of your eye but when you look directly they aint thea, had this since 11yrs old)
I spent a few years exploring around there, Tainui Land, well worth some time IMO.

Hey T, excellent thread Bro !, been flat out but am reading !

Nice to see lotsa good korero going on here !!

bump
 Quoting: KAITIAKI


Thanks you bro, appriciate it much, will definately check them out, have heard of them, just not exact locations, very interesting, ive experiance similar things with seeing things out the corner of my eye.

Im amazed you have experianced those things, and have knowledge of them, such a coincidance.

Yes good korero here bro :)

hf
Ra
User ID: 4221463
New Zealand
10/28/2011 08:56 PM
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Re: MYSTERIES of ANCIENT NEW ZEALAND and THE PACIFIC
Interesting book.....

THE Aryan Maori.

"The discovery of a new world" is tlie expression
used by a great German thinker in regard to the
Avonderful widening of human knowledge which arose
with the birth of Philology. To learn that many
nations, separated by distance, by ages of strife and
bloodshed, by differing religious creeds, and by
ancient customs, yet had a common source of birth,
that their forefathers spoke the same tongue, and
sat in one council-hall, was as delightful to the man
of pure intellect, as it was valuable to the student of
history. New fields of thought, endless paths of
inquiry, opened before the feet of the worker, bring-
ing reward at every mental step, and promising
always new delights beyond. Comparative Philology
and Comparative Mythology are the two youngest and
fairest daughters of Knowledge.

In using the name '' Maori " I shall confine it gene-
rally to the Maori of New Zealand, as being the type
best known to myself; yet, in its larger sense, I in-
clude the Maori spoken of in the following extract,
wherein Mr. Sterndale, treating of the light-coloured
branch of the Polynesian islanders and comparing
them with those of New Zealand, says, ^^ Their lan-
guage is so far identical that they readily under-
stand one another, without the intervention of an in-
terpreter. Their social customs are analogous ; their
traditions and habits of thinking are the same. They
have but one ancient name whereby they distinguisli
themselves from the rest of humanity — Maori."^

I now proceed to assert —
Positively,

1. That the Maori is an Aryan.

2. That his language and traditions prove him to

be the descendant of a pastoral people,
afterwards warlike and migratory.

3. That his language has preserved, in an almost

inconceivable purity, the speech of his
Aryan forefathers, and compared witb
which the Greek and Latin tongues are
mere corruptions.

4. That this language has embalmed the memory
of animals, implements, &c., the actual
sight of which has been lost to the Maori
for centuries.
Probably,

1. That he left India about four thousand years

ago.

2. That he has been in New Zealand almost as

long as that time.

To prove these bold assertions is my task in the
following chapters.

[link to www.archive.org]
 Quoting: Royal Assassin


About an hour into this.. Simply blown away. I lived a year or so in Fiji and it has answered many questions thus far for me. .. Thank you and the op ...


I knew there was a connection. ;)
 Quoting: Quanta 4107188


Hi Quanta, no problem, I was blown away first time i read it too, more validation and connections, very interesting things to study, and i think he was only scraching the tip of the ice berg, perhaps we can study abit futher in the launguage connection area, im very interested, in seeing this work explored more deeply.
". bleep
User ID: 4199140
Netherlands
10/28/2011 08:58 PM
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Re: MYSTERIES of ANCIENT NEW ZEALAND and THE PACIFIC

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