MYSTERIES of ANCIENT NEW ZEALAND and THE PACIFIC

Am i right in thinking that the tuatha de Danaan people were the same as the patu paiarehe? 'fairy' type folk of the forest?
And do you think they are the same people that archaeologists call the celtic pygmeys?
You know your geneology back that far, wow!

Yes. My family history on my mother's side tracks back to-tada!-the absolute westernmost part of Europe.
I had to do a lot of research-I was a university librarian for about a decade with access to 19th century books (scholars were scholars back then) -to get the nuances of what has been covered up, distorted and lost.
It's been weird.
I met a woman from the same lineage-even looked like my sister although our family has been in NZ for 4 generations-who was crowned Queen of The May in what was a Bronze Age ceremony late one night in Kerry.
Tuatha de Danaan -blond or red haired, green or blue eyes.So no, not pygmies.
I think the "pygmies" of Europe were Saan Bushmen typesfrrom Africa who hunted alongside the early blondish Europeans without any conflict.
Europe was a huge place with plenty of room for everyone.
Even early agriculturists didn't clash with the hunters as gardens were made upland by rivers, whereas hunters were coastal.

Good morning, i am a dummy, because i havent been to bed yet, i will crash sometime soon and let my boy have the laptop!

I cant find that thing i read last night about the 3 groups that made up the waitaha nation.

But i am pretty sure it was;

1. phoenician, because they were described as having darker complection and hooded eyelids.

2. celtic type group, green eyes, reddish or blond hair

3. a group that sounded almost morori looking.

But then of course, there were the patu paiarehe too.

I have never seen mention of any waitaha people being of a pygmy stature, so i wonder when they came here.

Ra, i am wondering, were the tall ones aboriginal, like moroiri were?

Maybe they were a taller race when the first came to australia, and slowly grew shorter with the harsh life in the deserts.

Morori were aboriginal people.

And i was taught in school that they were here first. This sanitising of our history sux!

So you are of waitaha descent maybe, lucky you!

Do you have blond hair or reddish.

I have met a young guy who lives near te puna, he is a full blooded cook island maori, but he has red hair, white skin.

But the constant reference to green/blue eyes and blond/red hair sounds celtic to me.

A Voice From the Dust

Arrayed upon Moytura Plain, De Dananns's tall and strong. Our fey-like folk outreached, outmatched, a desperate childlike throng. Then vanquished from the bloody field, defeated, sore distressed.

No home awaits through Herculean gates, from whence our people came. From slavers whip, from servitude, yon tyrants there our bane. No sanctuary lying to the west, no Isles, just storm swept sea. OF home, of hearth, of hope bereft, devoured in misery.

The Oracle spoke of Si-nim's Isles, 'neath the starry cross of Set, beyond Pharaoh's eucalyptus route, 'afore floating Ice be met. Where no foe didst strut, nor bully strive, a land of mystic peace, where bairn couldst laugh 'midst plenitude and woe and sorrow cease.

When midyear Sun rose through Taurean dawn, we glimpsed old Ire the last. But turned our eyes to southern skies, heaven's map before the mast and sailed by lands of tall black men, to sweltering oceans east, where currents tugged us east and south, to Si-nim's southern reach.

Then swept us north and eastly still, to Si-nim's furthest land. 'Neath long white clouds, in crashing surf, we beached there on the sand. 'Pon fertile plains we tilled and toiled, sowed grains to harvest meals. No serpent slithered twixt our feet, no scorpion at our heels.

Midst towering trees our orb abodes, we built of fitted stone. 'Neath open skies we sought for hills, where RA's gold presence shone. And raised up pillars to the Gods, that dwelt amongst the stars And laid out etchings on the ground, to mark the path of RA.

With knowledge gleaned of Enoch's gift, for all that dwelt on Earth, we set our times for toils and fests and cultural rebirth. Yet others came in peace to dwell, for rest, for harmony. E'en De Dananns, fresh from war, in quest of sanctuary.

The barques of Egypt 'proached our shores and Mayans, with their ship, to gather precious, verdant stone, from the mountain of the mist. The cairn, the tor, 'pon hill, in vale, by Amon's guiding hand, we built and set, to measures true and mapped all Si-nim land.

And dwelt in peace for all the days that RA didst rise in Taurus. Through Aries', to Piscean's House, no conflict came before us. Tall people from the warm east Isles, their hair of reddish hue, didst come on large and splendid craft, of double hulled canoe.

When Amon RA was dwelling in the Star house of Pisces, came brown skinned people, warm Isle folk, who foraged in the seas. They learned our arts, to weave, to plant, our counting of the days, to carve the precious verdant stone, so many of our ways.

Yet others of their kinfolk came, their populations grew. Came word of wars in northern Isles and fleets o Tonga-tapu. And warriors of the northern fleets, at last didst find our shores and drew some kinfolk to their stance and peace was known no more.

And murmurs came of horrid sights and savage men of dread, who terrorised our captured kin and feasted on our dead. Our undefended villages, by stealth, by forceful raids, were overcome, each fell with ease, all souls within them slayed.

All Si-nim land was bathed in blood, most died but others flee. Survivors, stalked and hunted still, 'neath forest canopy. Our maidens, knew but living death, rapine, abuse and scorn, enslaved to heartless, callous men and to them children born.

Brave maidens fair, down cast of heart, their babes upon their knees, recounted our ancestral truths and genealogies. 'Commit to memory my child' a duty a must, Lest memory of our noble folk, lie forgotten in the dust.

Dedicated to those, not allowed to be remembered.

Martin Doutre

Ancient Celtic New Zealand

[link to www.celticnz.co.nz]

Hi Tauranga, yes that cross house is interesting, connected to the southern cross as well.

So glad your here, we have very similar interest, ive been studying ancient NZ for awhile, have even discovered an ancient site up here were i live of great significance yet to be realized fully, ive been in contact with Martin Doutré and he confirmed for me, that there is a real possibility it is a ancient site of some sort.

Would like to hear you thoughts on this discovery, i found it dueing a luna elips.

And remembering that "Celtic" is a cultural term, not an ethnic or racial one.
My Milesian side is blonde and blue eyed.
My sister in law is green eyed and red haired.
And a "giant" at six foot-and she's the shortest female in her family.
Hunters tend to be tall-lots of protein-whereas agriculturists tend to be short.
I remember reading of an account of Roman troops facing Celts in battle-all naked including the women-and the historian recording that soldiers were dying before battle of "pains in the chest."Wonderful!
Average Roman soldier:5'3".
Average Celt:6'-7'.
The whole thing of Race is comparatively recent in European history.
In it's modern form it can be tracked back to the early German Protestants, who were trying to define German culture in Biblical terms (Wagner thought that Adam and Eve spoke German;
Gott; Nicht essen von der Baum der Erkinntnis!
Adam: Yawohl mein Fuehrer! LOL)
who then decided they were really the Chosen People and not the jewish people.
Picked up by the English, as fellow Germans.
Based on pseudo scientific Aryan theories.
I have a local Maori friend (Kai Tahu) whose theory is that the Maori were escaping Genghis Khan from China, and that it's a Lapita culture.
Another friend worked in Papua New Guinea for years and was fascinated by the similarity of language.
abc.com.au had an article recently that Maori Y chromosomes were from PNG and X mDNA was from China.
Doesn't preclude admixtures from all over.
I think Maori have suffered badly by being classed as Aryan-bullshitted into those crazy dreams of world empire that the Krauts are so fond of.
British Empire. Third Reich. What's the difference?

oh ofcourse.


well to put it simple it is not far off of zeeland in the netherlands.

in that quadrant next to that pont that originates just besides that other markspot angle.

So glad summer is comming up Tauranga, nice weather for bush walking, longer days for exploration, i want to go see as much of these places as i can. The land awaits.....i think its calling me lol.

I move house's on the 5th november(bottom of waikato river/te kohunga), closer to the coast, and were some of them Gient bones have been found(Tall ones?), Have seen the artical about the little people, and its connection to the bee like stone house's, similar houses found on Easter Island.

Also at the museam some of them Ancient Maori (food?)Houses on poles, with little doors, just right for little folk.

There is thou, mention of little people in the kolbrin, I mention this because i think ive found some connections between the kolbrin and new zealand, (another story).

So much questions, glad thou we got a place were we can start to look/address them, not just here, but also the connections to the rest of the world.

Thanks again for such an awesum thread

5 stars

Wow, i hope she is your sister, that would be so cool.
Did you say she lives at te puna too?

You know i just had a thought. We have seen enough, just in these nz skeletons in all the photos, to have ip proven to us that there were people of vastly different statures around together, not that long ago, realy.

Patu paiarehe were seen often in the late 1800's here.

And ,excitingly, there is a sighting from the 1950's of a group of them. The hunters saw them close up and followed them. Lost them in the bush, but went back and found there hut. Ra, in the hut they found kiore bones and tiny kete.
They were 4 foot, the men had beards.

It was a maori guy and a pakeha guy staying in the bush, doing forestry work or something. They went off to shoot a kereru for dinner, and saw the little folk instea.

Just before the maori chap passed away several years ago, he signed an afferdavit, because he felt so strongly about seeing them, which martin, etc probably hold.

There have been much more recent sightings, but not so solid ones.

I like to think some still live on pirongia, maungatautere, and other places.

I have felt them in the bush with me at times.

Not trying to sound special by saying that, many people feel their presence in the bush.

I know an awesome modern day story about a sighting by a van load of guys, who had the crap scared out of the, at waipoua forest. I think that was a ghostly sighting, though.

I will try and find both stories for you.

I havent looked for any links about kiore yet

Or Ratana, or the kaimanawa horses.. the list goes on. So many anomalies in nz eh Ra?

I like to think some still live on pirongia, maungatautere, and other places.

I have felt them in the bush with me at times.

Not trying to sound special by saying that, many people feel their presence in the bush.

yeaaaah for Tuatara Lizards !

yeaaaah for Tuatara Lizards !

Helollo, this is especially for you

Images of tuataras

[link to www.google.co.nz]

Ive got a maori friend, who lives down by port waikato at the bottom of the waikato river, it is a area said to have been occupied by the Tall ones, many caves in the area, she says, that there are people that exist in the area, in a different dimention,

The whole raglan/ port waikato area was a hugely poulated area in ancient times. There is so much there.Have you been to the enscribed boulders on whale bay beach?
The final home and massacre site of that scottish clan i posted about was not far from there.

I'm not quite sure where you mean you are moving to, but i think you mean that general part of nz?

There are more than one giant carved tuatara at headland places in nz...

Different dimension?Hmmmmmmmmmmmm
That's a thought I came up with in the context of my Irish background.
According to the 'legends' after the Tuathe de Danaan were defeated by the Milesians the Tuatha de Danaan went to live in the mounds.Sometimes ordinary people would stumble into their realm and really weird things would happen-time distortions and the like.
There were records of Tuatha de Danaan being around in the flesh centuries later though.
My theory is that most phased over to the Other World, where they live in a realm quite simialar to this one.Maybe.
There are some very peculiar tales by the peasantry in a book by Oscar Wilde's mother 20th century which sound completely realistic -but involving interactions with another realm.
Such as Changelings.
I've got a a Ngai Tahu friend,who is very sceptical of the Waitaha thing, but he's writing and illustrating a book of the local arae and it's myths, and he pointed out a mountain across Lyttelton harbour where a Maori woman had gone to live for several years with the Fairies, and came back a very different person.
Kinda cool to think of pygmies hiding out in the bush in NZ too!

yeaaaah for Tuatara Lizards !

Step into the Power of the Higher Mind

'We gather to the light of the flame to share the lore of old that brings forth the sacred name. All spoken here is of Io, the Source of Life and in that name, I call Tuatara to bring us to the Dreaming that is of the Rainbow Mind.

'Tuatara of Ancient Times

Child of the Reptiles
Keeper of the Knowledge
And all that has ever been.

Tuatara of the Third Eye

Gateway to the Universe
Mirror of the known realms
And those between.

Tuatara of the Spirit Trails

Carved in mountain and mind
To mark the pathways to the stars
And all unseen.

Open the Portals to the Sacred'




Grandfather held the silence for a long time. To speak of Tuatara was to navigate through difficult tides. He seemed to drift far away, before a child's voice called him back to the fire. Sometimes the little ones see much more than their words convey.

'Why have you called Tuatara, Poua?' cried Kea, the wide-eyed child who told grandfather that she would call him Poua, in the Maori way, if he would be her third grandfather. He'd accepted that with a broad smile, seeing he had already replaced her Katie with Kea. White Eagle, her uncle, had brought her along on the first day as a one-off, babay-sitting favour, but this seven-year-old couldn't be kept away.

'Poua, will we be all right?' Kea asked when he was slow to reply.

'Be no afraid, Tuatara is our friend. It helps us discover the magic of the third eye,' replied the old one with a smile.

'I think I have seen its third eye, Poua, but I didn't know it was magic,' responded Kea, who was remembering her visit to the reptile house at the zoo. She had been drawn to Tuatara in its stillness, was fascinated by its unblinking gaze and if she hadn't actually seen the third eye she had certainly heard of it.

'Ae few know the magic, little one,' he chuckled. 'It's time to see if we can change that, time to walk the magic.... even if I have to sit to do it.'

His little joke at the end came with a wry smile that was reflected back to him by his old companion in life.

Tuatara is the gatekeeper

'When the Ancestors came to these shores, they knew that Tuatara was both ancient and wise. And they saw in its power a path to the Dreaming that is of the Rainbow Mind, for this wondrous creature had a third eye.'

'How does it use its third eye, Poua? asked Kea.

'Tuatara looks to the side with two eyes, and uses a third to reach beyond Space and Time to defy the boundaries that divide. That third eye brings us to the Dreaming that is of the Rainbow Mind.'

'Ive heard of the third eye in my studies, Koro,' offered Emma, Flame's teenage daughter, who had arrived late because of her comparative religions course. University had taken precedence until today.

'It's part of the eastern cultures...about linking mind with spirit...we have it too...in the forehead...its one of the charkas...but we haven't got there yet.'

'Ae, your studies serve us well. Yes, it is an Eastern thing and a Maori thing and there is mystery in that. Tuatara and chinese dragons seem to travel the same trails.'

Truth is paradox within the big mind

Koro, what is the Dreaming that is of the Rainbow Mind? Is it like the Dreamtime of the Australian Aboriginals?' asked Emma.

'I suspect so,' responded the old one. 'It is of that special place where truth is paradox, because the Dreaming is not about sleep! The Dreaming is not about drifting into a cosy space! The Dreaming is not about fluffy stuff without substance! The Dreaming is about waking up. Ae, the Dreaming is about awareness, no, more than that, it is about the ultimate awareness that we call Te Wai Pounamu. And it is that awareness that brings us to the Rainbow Mind.'

'Koro, I dont wish to divert you from your course, but I have to ask about Te Wai Pounamu. It's our name for the South Island, and accepted by all I have met in the north. Am I wrong to see it that way?' asked Mick.

'You are not wrong, for names change. It happens here almost every night,' grandfather said with a chuckle.

'Its not surprising in this age to see the island that is home to our precious Pounamu, carrying the name of the Stone. By penning it on his charts, Captain Cook sealed its place. Yet, the deeper meaning of Te Wai Pounamu remains. The Ancestors gave it not to the land, but to the purest stream of thought, to the river of the Rainbow Mind that flows into the Dream Time that embraces many worlds and speaks of realms unseen.'

'Koro, are you suggesting we have more than one mind?' asked Flame.

'Your question asks me to tear apart the seamless fabric of the mind. I cannot divide that which unites, so I will explore the many facets of the mind, and hope that along the way you find an answer.'

Song Of The Old Tides - Barry Brailsford


Notes - Its interesting about the referance to Reptiles in relationship to the third eye and knowledge. I think i know why there is a vail of fear that hovers over the Reptilian subject, in a way that vail of fear has protected the knowledge, hence the reason why reptiles are seen as protectors or guardians in many ancient cultures.

TuaTara the name is intersting in its self Tua-Tara, TuaTara is also on one side of the NZ five and ten cent coins, with Queen Elizabeth the 2nd on the other.

The part highlighted in Blue, reminded me of message in a bottle/lightson,djed pillar and his measage.

Ref - [link to en.wikipedia.org]

Ref - [link to www.numismaster.com]

Thread: Calling LIGHTWORKERS! A Meeting Place ! (Page 3073)

Hello, yes i agree that most of them are in another dimension. I think that encounter the vanload of workers had recently at waipoua was a sighting of spirit.

I hope i can find both of those stories to share here.

But fairly often hunters have odd experinces or hear the patu paiarehe doing their beautiful singing.

I believe there are still some alive and our dimension, in nz!