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Teaching first grader how to read, school says "sounding it out" not allowed?!

 
Anonymous Coward
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10/27/2011 05:31 PM
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Re: Teaching first grader how to read, school says "sounding it out" not allowed?!
Sounding it out doesn't work all the time, and can actually learn to reading disorders later in life for a fair chunk of students.

[link to www.stuff.co.nz]

If this is only one teacher who is teaching this 'new way' I think you need to be a bit more grateful for her interest in improving teaching and try her method. It may be that she is 'cutting edge' and taking a sincere approach to teaching her students.

[link to www.eagleforum.org] may be of interest too.

Ultimately it comes down to the individual student and where they are academically.

For the record, when I went to school many, many years ago they had a much different and not always better ways to teach children.

Today in the 21st century a real change is taking place in how the subject of teaching is handled for all subjects. There is a lot of interesting studies and new methods out there that actually appear to be better than the old school method.

I have no idea what these other strategies are, if they are noted in that paperwork, try them. If not noted see if you an 'audit the class'. I don't think they call it auditing, but its where a person can sit and observe a class.

Failing that have an after school meeting with the teacher and ask her what methods are being used. She most likely will be tickled pink that you are taking a personal hands on approach with your child and their education and will, most likely be willing to explain to you everything.

IF you approach her nicely.

Many teachers get slammed for what they do, a parent comes in and basically tells the teacher where to go without really listening to the teacher and exploring with the teacher what is good for the student.
 Quoting: Bowyn Aerrow


I suspect you don't currently have kids in school. The various attempts to reduce parental influence and create a self-contained "society" at school are quite intensive these days. Some of it seems designed to prevent kids from flying too far ahead.

Phonics works almost always. There are certain exceptions to the simplest rules of phonics, and those are presented as certain systematic exceptions a year or two later. Since they are often systematic, they are a part of phonics too.

This analysis leads into the identification of root words which, when combined with phonetic rules, is the basis of learning any alphabetical foreign language, i.e. just about anything but Chinese. (It's interesting then to see how the phonetic rules are similar, and different, in a foreign language. And grammar can be compared too.) I suspect it's very harmful to skip phonics, and the damage is not all apparent immediately. These "studies" they do are usually intended to support some well funded agenda, that is why they are funded.

If I am confronted with a word I don't know, as a well educated adult, the "reading strategies" I know are phonics and root word analysis. First graders don't have a storehouse of root words, so they have only phonics. I'm skeptical that any of their other "strategies" are any good.

I guess it would not hurt to have a chat with the teacher, and to tell her that phonics is a sound proven method.
Anonymous Coward
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10/27/2011 05:44 PM
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Re: Teaching first grader how to read, school says "sounding it out" not allowed?!
I'm a little unclear here. What other way is there to learn new words besides sounding them out? Look at pictures? Is that it? What if there are no pictures? Ask your teacher? This makes no sense.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3183091


Presumably this AC from Mexico learned to read first in Spanish. So of course they use phonics in Spanish too.

The rules are almost the same, there are a few differences, and less exceptions. But what's the freakin' point of having an alphabet if you don't use the sound properties of the letters!?

In China learning to read is much harder, because their characters are generally less systematic. And do you know how they teach the kids to pronounce characters? It's called "pinyin", and it is pronounced PHONETICALLY!

In other words, they create a whole parallel system, using the letters of the English alphabet (but again with different phonetic rules) to teach kids to read!
Anonymous Coward
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10/27/2011 05:48 PM
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Re: Teaching first grader how to read, school says "sounding it out" not allowed?!
I am a first grade teacher with 20 years experience and have taught several hundred students (and incidentally some of their parents) to read.

In my experience, sight readers enjoy impressive success UNTIL they reach 3rd grade and begin encountering advanced vocabulary.

Thus, an explicit, concrete, sequential phonics approach to reading is absolutely essential for most beginning readers. Over 80% of printed words ARE phonetically-decodable. Those few which are not usually follow the phonetic rules of the language from which they are derived.

Good readers utilize a variety of additional reading strategies, including (but certainly not limited to): semantics, vocabulary, context, syntax, etc.
 Quoting: Rhubarbgal 1304964


THIS.
Anonymous Coward
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10/27/2011 05:52 PM
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Re: Teaching first grader how to read, school says "sounding it out" not allowed?!
I had the same issue (class of 86), showed my daughter how to do a math problem and she came home with a huge F on the paper. All the answers were correct but it was not done the new way so she got an F/zero on the paper.
 Quoting: momma coop


What?!? She got all the answers right, and got an F?
What is this 'new math'? I didn't know there were other ways to add/subtract/multiply/divide? This is why the Chinese are going to kick out butts one day.

It's like they are intentionally trying to make it so parents can't be involved with their child's education.
 Quoting: Oubliette


I do not believe this program to be state or federally mandated. The school board is comprised of a bunch of far left-leaning individuals, including the vice-president in chard of the curriculum. She is the chair of the local Democracy for America group. Here's something my husband wrote about the reform math program Everyday Mathematics used in our school -

[link to www.americanthinker.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1558482


My kids school is run by a bunch of christer neocons and they are no better off.

In fact the third grade teacher leader is praised for not teaching reading by the principal. All of the kids coming out of third grade are still on a second grade reading level because third grade teachers don't teach reading and writing.

The reason for the praise.... The principal and the third grade teacher leader went to the same church and continually talked about their bizarre christer beliefs.... In public, in front of other teachers. So the "good ol boy" club of piece of shit red neck christers takes precedence over education.... Again!

They actually promoted the third grade teacher leader into the admin... She's currently one of the heads of curriculum. Yay!
Anonymous Coward
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10/27/2011 07:24 PM
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Re: Teaching first grader how to read, school says "sounding it out" not allowed?!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1558482


Oh dear me. That math gave me a headache. Did someone think that makes math simpler? Fail.
Anonymous Coward
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10/27/2011 07:47 PM
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Re: Teaching first grader how to read, school says "sounding it out" not allowed?!
I've heard there is a much greater lack of reading skills because teachers are no longer allowed to teach reading methods which work well.

I don't like how they undermine parents either. Pretty sinister!
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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10/27/2011 07:51 PM
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Re: Teaching first grader how to read, school says "sounding it out" not allowed?!
I've heard there is a much greater lack of reading skills because teachers are no longer allowed to teach reading methods which work well.

I don't like how they undermine parents either. Pretty sinister!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1409343


Yes, the math and reading usually go hand in hand, called constructivism :(
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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10/27/2011 08:19 PM
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Re: Teaching first grader how to read, school says "sounding it out" not allowed?!
I had the same issue (class of 86), showed my daughter how to do a math problem and she came home with a huge F on the paper. All the answers were correct but it was not done the new way so she got an F/zero on the paper.
 Quoting: momma coop


What?!? She got all the answers right, and got an F?
What is this 'new math'? I didn't know there were other ways to add/subtract/multiply/divide? This is why the Chinese are going to kick out butts one day.

It's like they are intentionally trying to make it so parents can't be involved with their child's education.
 Quoting: Oubliette


I do not believe this program to be state or federally mandated. The school board is comprised of a bunch of far left-leaning individuals, including the vice-president in chard of the curriculum. She is the chair of the local Democracy for America group. Here's something my husband wrote about the reform math program Everyday Mathematics used in our school -

[link to www.americanthinker.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1558482


My kids school is run by a bunch of christer neocons and they are no better off.

In fact the third grade teacher leader is praised for not teaching reading by the principal. All of the kids coming out of third grade are still on a second grade reading level because third grade teachers don't teach reading and writing.

The reason for the praise.... The principal and the third grade teacher leader went to the same church and continually talked about their bizarre christer beliefs.... In public, in front of other teachers. So the "good ol boy" club of piece of shit red neck christers takes precedence over education.... Again!

They actually promoted the third grade teacher leader into the admin... She's currently one of the heads of curriculum. Yay!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2717671


I don't understand, if they aren't learning reading and writing, what ARE they learning??
Anonymous Coward
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10/27/2011 08:23 PM
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Re: Teaching first grader how to read, school says "sounding it out" not allowed?!
Don't get me started on Everyday Math it is a cancer in our school systems.
Anonymous Coward
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10/27/2011 08:26 PM
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Re: Teaching first grader how to read, school says "sounding it out" not allowed?!
OP, "Hooked on Phonics" wouldn't have lasted this long if there weren't something to it, also studies show that phonics are generally more effective than the "Look Say" method of reading that was popular a while back.

I don't have kids in school but I do have an MA degree in Curriculum and Instruction. If it were my kid, I'd suggest that he sound stuff out at home but make it clear that his teacher is the boss at school (unless you discuss the matter with the teacher and work something out).
N34444

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10/27/2011 08:27 PM
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Re: Teaching first grader how to read, school says "sounding it out" not allowed?!
I'm not sure what any kid has to gain by going to public schools.
Assets feed you, liabilities eat you.
Anonymous Coward
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10/27/2011 08:45 PM
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Re: Teaching first grader how to read, school says "sounding it out" not allowed?!
I'm a little unclear here. What other way is there to learn new words besides sounding them out? Look at pictures? Is that it? What if there are no pictures? Ask your teacher? This makes no sense.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3183091


They memorize what the words look like, that's the basic gist of it. So instead of learning to sound out k-i-d, they see pictures of a kid and memorize that kid=kid. Now, if they forget a letter they could read it as "kind" or "kip" or, well, you see what I'm saying.

They did this many years ago. They realized that when we read we don't sound everything out. So, they figured they could just skip that step in teaching kids to read. Why bother teaching them to read if they're going to end up memorizing it later? That's their logic.

What they don't seem to realize is that actually learning to read, sound out words, has to be done first. It's like a child learning to walk having never learned to roll over, scoot or crawl.

Highly recommend reading "Why Johnny Can't Read".
Anonymous Coward
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10/27/2011 08:49 PM
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Re: Teaching first grader how to read, school says "sounding it out" not allowed?!
Sounding it out doesn't work all the time, and can actually learn to reading disorders later in life for a fair chunk of students.

[link to www.stuff.co.nz]

If this is only one teacher who is teaching this 'new way' I think you need to be a bit more grateful for her interest in improving teaching and try her method. It may be that she is 'cutting edge' and taking a sincere approach to teaching her students.

[link to www.eagleforum.org] may be of interest too.

Ultimately it comes down to the individual student and where they are academically.

For the record, when I went to school many, many years ago they had a much different and not always better ways to teach children.

Today in the 21st century a real change is taking place in how the subject of teaching is handled for all subjects. There is a lot of interesting studies and new methods out there that actually appear to be better than the old school method.

I have no idea what these other strategies are, if they are noted in that paperwork, try them. If not noted see if you an 'audit the class'. I don't think they call it auditing, but its where a person can sit and observe a class.

Failing that have an after school meeting with the teacher and ask her what methods are being used. She most likely will be tickled pink that you are taking a personal hands on approach with your child and their education and will, most likely be willing to explain to you everything.

IF you approach her nicely.

Many teachers get slammed for what they do, a parent comes in and basically tells the teacher where to go without really listening to the teacher and exploring with the teacher what is good for the student.
 Quoting: Bowyn Aerrow



The Mcguffey reader got the US to be number one in every way, and most kids could read well by the 2nd or 3rd grade. Now we are from fifth to tenth in every way. By all means, lets think of new ways to dumb the children down. We don't want to embarrass kids in Africa with American excellence.
Anonymous Coward
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10/27/2011 08:53 PM
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Re: Teaching first grader how to read, school says "sounding it out" not allowed?!
I'm a little unclear here. What other way is there to learn new words besides sounding them out? Look at pictures? Is that it? What if there are no pictures? Ask your teacher? This makes no sense.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3183091


They memorize what the words look like, that's the basic gist of it. So instead of learning to sound out k-i-d, they see pictures of a kid and memorize that kid=kid. Now, if they forget a letter they could read it as "kind" or "kip" or, well, you see what I'm saying.

They did this many years ago. They realized that when we read we don't sound everything out. So, they figured they could just skip that step in teaching kids to read. Why bother teaching them to read if they're going to end up memorizing it later? That's their logic.

What they don't seem to realize is that actually learning to read, sound out words, has to be done first. It's like a child learning to walk having never learned to roll over, scoot or crawl.

Highly recommend reading "Why Johnny Can't Read".
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1185535


Want to add, that phonics is totally politically incorrect in many schools. I've read about good teachers who have to teach phonics "in secret" to their students and if the administration found out they'd be in trouble. It isn't just that there's a new way of teaching, it's that the tried and proven way isn't even allowed and can get a teacher in trouble. They *hate* phonics. It's an agenda to produce fewer good readers. Gotta be because it's just too bizarre otherwise.
Anonymous Coward
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10/27/2011 08:53 PM
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Re: Teaching first grader how to read, school says "sounding it out" not allowed?!
when you look up a word in the dictionary there are specific notations on how to pronounce it, does the teacher say no to dictionaries also? I mean they help you learn and stuff.. is this an anti-learning school?
Anonymous Coward
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10/27/2011 09:03 PM
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Re: Teaching first grader how to read, school says "sounding it out" not allowed?!
when you look up a word in the dictionary there are specific notations on how to pronounce it, does the teacher say no to dictionaries also? I mean they help you learn and stuff.. is this an anti-learning school?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1550290


Read my post above your post.

This isn't just one school. This is common now.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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10/27/2011 09:22 PM
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Re: Teaching first grader how to read, school says "sounding it out" not allowed?!
Don't get me started on Everyday Math it is a cancer in our school systems.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2379441


This goes hand-in-hand with Everyday Mathematics, also in the schools here...
Anonymous Coward
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10/27/2011 09:22 PM
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Re: Teaching first grader how to read, school says "sounding it out" not allowed?!
This is why you homeschool.

This is just the tip of the iceberg.

They WANT your child dumb.

School children get 50% average in final tests.

Homeschoolers around 82%.
Anonymous Coward
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10/27/2011 10:18 PM
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Re: Teaching first grader how to read, school says "sounding it out" not allowed?!
This is why you homeschool.

This is just the tip of the iceberg.

They WANT your child dumb.

School children get 50% average in final tests.

Homeschoolers around 82%.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3991586


ohyeah
Anonymous Coward
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10/27/2011 10:45 PM
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Re: Teaching first grader how to read, school says "sounding it out" not allowed?!
I am a first grade teacher with 20 years experience and have taught several hundred students (and incidentally some of their parents) to read.

In my experience, sight readers enjoy impressive success UNTIL they reach 3rd grade and begin encountering advanced vocabulary.

Thus, an explicit, concrete, sequential phonics approach to reading is absolutely essential for most beginning readers. Over 80% of printed words ARE phonetically-decodable. Those few which are not usually follow the phonetic rules of the language from which they are derived.

Good readers utilize a variety of additional reading strategies, including (but certainly not limited to): semantics, vocabulary, context, syntax, etc.
 Quoting: Rhubarbgal 1304964


THIS.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2300513


If you can read this, you did not use the "new strategies" method learning to read.
Anonymous Coward
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10/27/2011 11:00 PM
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Re: Teaching first grader how to read, school says "sounding it out" not allowed?!
I am so glad I am not a teacher
?Really?

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10/27/2011 11:02 PM
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Re: Teaching first grader how to read, school says "sounding it out" not allowed?!
I pulled my son out of the public school this year.
Over and over I had seen Aventa/K12 advertised on tv, and decided to check it out.
I enrolled him over the summer,and only then found out that it was supported by the local school system.

The school told me they would enroll him in one class, and see how he did, but he had to make them feel like he needed to do that, instead of go to school.

I told them that I had other choices, and they could approve the enrollment, or I could homeschool him on my own. After about a 2 hour conversation with ONE of the FIVE school principals, they sent me to the counselors office, and we got him enrolled.

While working on that one subject with Aventa online, they switched his teachers. Just 2 weeks ago, we finally finished the course. This, after only being given 3 weeks to finish the course. They didn't make it easy on us, either. It was an english course that involved required reading that not only could I not find in town, but had to order, so we had to wait to begin the class!! 3 weeks went by fast, and I complained about the fact that they didn't bother to provide the reading materials on such a short time limit, and we had to wait.

I emailed both the highschool counselor, and the AventaOnline teacher, and informed them that due to the fact that the teacher went on vacation, and wasn't grading his stuff, we didn't have any idea what the final grade was, but that he had completed the course, and we were okay with where he stood. I have since logged into his course to see if some of those assignments had been graded, and still no grade.
So, the very next day, the highschool counselor called me and informed that they were switching to K12, instead of Aventa, and she would let me know when they were ready to enroll him in that.
So, what does he do in the meantime???????
Who knows? It's been a week, so, since I had the day off today, I emailed the counselor, and asked her where we were, and when we could begin the next classes.
I still haven't heard back.

I'd say they have more on their plate than they can handle.
The highschool looks like a prison these days, with 8 foot acme fences surrounding the entire school. No one in, and no one out until school is out.

Frankly, I don't care if he finishes or not. He is not a stupid child, and has many talents. I will push him to finish as much as I can move this forward, but I'm not getting alot of help from the school system.

I suppose I'll wait until the counselor emails me back, but it better be timely, because I'm looking into other programs. I'm sick of the public schools, and have no problem telling anyone looking for a reason to pull their child out of them, why I did pull my child out.
Your child will fall behind under bushy's no child left behind crap. You have to take their education and make it a priority, because the mentality in public schools is that it isn't a priority, and they could care less if your child is failing.
Anonymous Coward
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10/28/2011 12:27 AM
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Re: Teaching first grader how to read, school says "sounding it out" not allowed?!
...


What?!? She got all the answers right, and got an F?
What is this 'new math'? I didn't know there were other ways to add/subtract/multiply/divide? This is why the Chinese are going to kick out butts one day.

It's like they are intentionally trying to make it so parents can't be involved with their child's education.
 Quoting: Oubliette


I do not believe this program to be state or federally mandated. The school board is comprised of a bunch of far left-leaning individuals, including the vice-president in chard of the curriculum. She is the chair of the local Democracy for America group. Here's something my husband wrote about the reform math program Everyday Mathematics used in our school -

[link to www.americanthinker.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1558482


My kids school is run by a bunch of christer neocons and they are no better off.

In fact the third grade teacher leader is praised for not teaching reading by the principal. All of the kids coming out of third grade are still on a second grade reading level because third grade teachers don't teach reading and writing.

The reason for the praise.... The principal and the third grade teacher leader went to the same church and continually talked about their bizarre christer beliefs.... In public, in front of other teachers. So the "good ol boy" club of piece of shit red neck christers takes precedence over education.... Again!

They actually promoted the third grade teacher leader into the admin... She's currently one of the heads of curriculum. Yay!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2717671


I don't understand, if they aren't learning reading and writing, what ARE they learning??
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1558482


The principal got demoted to "vice principal" at the HS.... The remaining third grade staff are undergoing training to theoretically learn how to teach reading and writing... The best teacher in the district got moved into fourth grade to try to intercept last years third graders to get them up to speed reading and writing (a near impossible task). The district has spent a bunch of money on a couple of weird programs that don't seem to do much of anything except create more paper work for the teachers, further distracting them from teaching... Although there is a medieval christer theme so the expensive program is here to stay.

The former principal fired all of the veteran teachers over the last three years, in order to hire young kids out of college with overt christer leanings. Inexperienced and easily threatened she ruled through fear..... The principal basically destroyed our elementary schools learning environment for her own egoistical purposes. I'm close to a number of teachers and former teachers at the school.... It is one of the most bizarre situations I've ever witnessed. Neocon christer good ole boy club like you'd see parodied in a bad comedy.... The fucking Super had a fake PHD from a bullshit online school lol.
Anonymous Coward
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10/28/2011 12:36 AM
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Re: Teaching first grader how to read, school says "sounding it out" not allowed?!
they always try this shit. I sounded words out myself without being taught because that is not what they were teaching. Yet, for some reason I knew how to know. I am an artist and very intelligent. another new concept they are preaching is that because of the internet memorization is not that important. Sorry retards you cannot think without memory and you have no steps to climb. Fucking idiots are running are institutions or shall I say the "Inmates are running the Asylum?"
Anonymous Coward
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10/28/2011 12:43 AM
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Re: Teaching first grader how to read, school says "sounding it out" not allowed?!
Tell the school to sound this out:

f
u
c
k

o
f
f
 Quoting: SnakeAirlines


clappa
Anonymous Coward
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10/28/2011 01:02 AM
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Re: Teaching first grader how to read, school says "sounding it out" not allowed?!
i think memorization can hinder development. as in you might not be capable of figuring something out unless you memorize it. it puts a restraint on you which when presented with an unknown, causes a lack of ability to find an answer that works. i know people who know alot of facts but cannot solve a problem because they lack free thinking. i don't think intelligence has anything to do with knowing facts, if you cant connect the dots...
Anonymous Coward
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10/28/2011 01:09 AM
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[link to www.brillbaby.com]

Anonymous Coward
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10/28/2011 01:14 AM
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Re: Teaching first grader how to read, school says "sounding it out" not allowed?!
i think memorization can hinder development. as in you might not be capable of figuring something out unless you memorize it. it puts a restraint on you which when presented with an unknown, causes a lack of ability to find an answer that works. i know people who know alot of facts but cannot solve a problem because they lack free thinking. i don't think intelligence has anything to do with knowing facts, if you cant connect the dots...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4149697


basically i see memorization as this, in this context, you don't know the word then ask for help...do not try to figure it out for yourself. that is what it boils down to, do not think, memorize what i tell you it means. there will be no thinkers, except those that are true genius. its a good plan and works.
Anonymous Coward
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10/28/2011 01:17 AM
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Re: Teaching first grader how to read, school says "sounding it out" not allowed?!
I would have never survived that type of thing, I am too stubborn in doing my learning in the ways my own mind wants to. Like to subtract, I always took the smaller number, and figured out what you have to add to it to get the bigger number. I'm sure I'm not the only one. It's just so sad that teaching methods are so regimented and do not allow for each child's individuality and different strengths, weaknesses, and interests, along with different learning styles and rates of devolopment. I have one child who is more of an auditory learner, and another who is a visual learner, in that he needs to be shown how to do something.
double_frick

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10/28/2011 01:18 AM
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Re: Teaching first grader how to read, school says "sounding it out" not allowed?!
The bigger issue here now is them wanting to undermine parental authority. They are teaching these kids to say no to their parents or other adults who are trying to help them read. The way my son explained it, you would have thought someone was trying to offer the kid drugs when he held his hand up to demonstrate how the teacher told him to say no.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1558482


yes yes yes yes!!!

this is the main theme i see going on now that i've put my son into the public school system.

i honestly regret it now. its to the point that his teacher didn't even allow him to take a snack i made for him to supplement his lunch (it was nuts and banana chips with a few m&ms, like trail mix--meanwhile they have french toast and syrup for lunch twice a week!) and now the teach told him that they can EITHER go trick-or-treating OR go to a halloween celebration at the local park. wtf?!? we'll go to those and EFFING MORE if we damn well please! /rant. haha


but seriously, the only thing the school seems adamant is elbowing its way into every crevice of your life....through your kid.

since my kid has started school his math skills have regressed (he was working on multiplication, now he's having trouble with the weird word problems they are posing to 1st graders.) they often get too busy and miss out on time for science....and music class...and reading stories. its insanity.

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