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Irrefutable argument against fundies who think homosexuality is a choice

 
Cheswolf
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Irrefutable argument against fundies who think homosexuality is a choice
So, if you believe that homosexuality is a choice you must also agree that you are saying that you could sleep with a member of the same sex. So you, by your own definition, are saying that YOU are a bisexual. I know that it’s not a choice because I could not decide to sleep with a dude, I find nothing attractive when looking at another man. So Fundies must admit that they are not heterosexual but that they are, in fact, attracted to members of their own sex and are bisexual.


Prove me wrong……
Anonymous Coward
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11/20/2011 02:23 AM
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Re: Irrefutable argument against fundies who think homosexuality is a choice
you are right. my that same rational then people would CHOOSE to be straight, which is not the case.

good post.
Cheswolf (OP)

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11/20/2011 02:27 AM
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Re: Irrefutable argument against fundies who think homosexuality is a choice
you are right. my that same rational then people would CHOOSE to be straight, which is not the case.

good post.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2008068


Thanks, the realization of what they where really saying hit me light a bolt of lighting one night. I would love to get the argument out to a wider audience but it's not easy.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Irrefutable argument against fundies who think homosexuality is a choice
All sexual acts are a choice, unless you are a victim of rape.
Anonymous Coward
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11/20/2011 02:34 AM
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Re: Irrefutable argument against fundies who think homosexuality is a choice
All sexual acts are a choice, unless you are a victim of rape.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2147803



Sexual acts perhaps, but not sexual feelings.
Anonymous Coward
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11/20/2011 02:44 AM
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Re: Irrefutable argument against fundies who think homosexuality is a choice
newsflash

You are defined by your actions--not your potential actions.

newsflash
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Irrefutable argument against fundies who think homosexuality is a choice
But to the homophobes it is a choice. They are secretly attracted to gay sex but choose not to act on it so that they can proclaim themselves to be straight while bashing gays out of self-hatred.
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Re: Irrefutable argument against fundies who think homosexuality is a choice
So, if you believe that homosexuality is a choice you must also agree that you are saying that you could sleep with a member of the same sex. So you, by your own definition, are saying that YOU are a bisexual. I know that it’s not a choice because I could not decide to sleep with a dude, I find nothing attractive when looking at another man. So Fundies must admit that they are not heterosexual but that they are, in fact, attracted to members of their own sex and are bisexual.


Prove me wrong……
 Quoting: Cheswolf


I don't care one way or the other on this topic, but I've got to point out that your logic is severely lacking.

Your first sentence is not a logical consequence: "if you believe that homosexuality is a choice you must also agree that you are saying that you could sleep with a member of the same sex."

Replace "homosexuality" with anything else you like, then you can use your supposed "logic" to prove that no one has a choice on anything. For instance, replace "homosexuality" with "jay walking", and it becomes "if you believe that jaywalking is a choice you must also agree that you are saying that you could jaywalk. So you, by your own definition, are saying that YOU are a jaywalker." The consequence of your logic being that everyone is a jaywalker whether they like it or not.

Just because someone COULD jaywalk doesn't mean they are one.
jdb

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Re: Irrefutable argument against fundies who think homosexuality is a choice
So, if you believe that homosexuality is a choice you must also agree that you are saying that you could sleep with a member of the same sex. So you, by your own definition, are saying that YOU are a bisexual. I know that it’s not a choice because I could not decide to sleep with a dude, I find nothing attractive when looking at another man. So Fundies must admit that they are not heterosexual but that they are, in fact, attracted to members of their own sex and are bisexual.


Prove me wrong……
 Quoting: Cheswolf


Circular reasoning! But, I'll do you one better! Your premise that because you were "born this way", you are justified in living that way...yes?

God's Word tells us that we are broken...ALL OF US! We are born into sin...we are totally depraved! So, the premise that because you were born this way doesn't hold water! By the way, I DO NOT speak against you with a judgmental spirit...nor do I condemn you! I encourage you (and all of us) to step over your (our)depravity and surrender to Jesus! He is our only hope!
God Is! We're not! Let's knock off all the nonsense!
Anonymous Coward
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11/20/2011 02:50 AM
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Re: Irrefutable argument against fundies who think homosexuality is a choice
So, if you believe that homosexuality is a choice you must also agree that you are saying that you could sleep with a member of the same sex. So you, by your own definition, are saying that YOU are a bisexual. I know that it’s not a choice because I could not decide to sleep with a dude, I find nothing attractive when looking at another man. So Fundies must admit that they are not heterosexual but that they are, in fact, attracted to members of their own sex and are bisexual.


Prove me wrong……
 Quoting: Cheswolf


I don't care one way or the other on this topic, but I've got to point out that your logic is severely lacking.

Your first sentence is not a logical consequence: "if you believe that homosexuality is a choice you must also agree that you are saying that you could sleep with a member of the same sex."

Replace "homosexuality" with anything else you like, then you can use your supposed "logic" to prove that no one has a choice on anything. For instance, replace "homosexuality" with "jay walking", and it becomes "if you believe that jaywalking is a choice you must also agree that you are saying that you could jaywalk. So you, by your own definition, are saying that YOU are a jaywalker." The consequence of your logic being that everyone is a jaywalker whether they like it or not.

Just because someone COULD jaywalk doesn't mean they are one.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5647096


Actually you're the one not making any sense... But w/e its cool...


Anyway, telling someone that being gay is a choice is no different than saying their eye color is a choice.

You can cover up your true eye color, you can hide it, but you can't change it.

Who the hell would want to choose to be gay? You'd be choosing to be hated, 2nd class, to live a harder life. Clearly those who say its a choice haven't thought it through or are covering for something. The biggest homophobes I knew growing up turned out to be gay.
Horace bubba

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11/20/2011 02:52 AM
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Re: Irrefutable argument against fundies who think homosexuality is a choice
All sexual acts are a choice, unless you are a victim of rape.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2147803


If you were even moderately capable of defending yourself adequately, you wouldn't be a victim of rape.


tomato

Last Edited by Horace bubba on 11/20/2011 02:55 AM
The Devil would never go down to Georgia.

Eeew.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Irrefutable argument against fundies who think homosexuality is a choice
Circular reasoning! But, I'll do you one better! Your premise that because you were "born this way", you are justified in living that way...yes?

God's Word tells us that we are broken...ALL OF US! We are born into sin...we are totally depraved! So, the premise that because you were born this way doesn't hold water! By the way, I DO NOT speak against you with a judgmental spirit...nor do I condemn you! I encourage you (and all of us) to step over your (our)depravity and surrender to Jesus! He is our only hope!
 Quoting: jdb


Can't help but hit this topic either.

So many of you "Christians" fail to understand that you live in a country where there is this thing called Freedom of Religion, and not everyone chooses or wants to believe in what you believe, or even your brand of said belief.

Just because you think they're going to hell doesn't mean they necessarily are, and its not your place to try to badger them into submission.

Just because something is different doesn't make it wrong.

I bet you eat shellfish and your clothes are made of different types of fabric. I'm not screaming at you that you're going to hell for choosing to eat pork or shrimp or wear cotton polyester blend. This is no different.
jdb

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Re: Irrefutable argument against fundies who think homosexuality is a choice
All sexual acts are a choice, unless you are a victim of rape.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2147803


If were even moderately capable of defending yourself adequately, you wouldn't be a victim of rape.


tomato
 Quoting: Horace bubba


Horace - your definition of "selfishness" is going to have me laughing for days! TY
God Is! We're not! Let's knock off all the nonsense!
Anonymous Coward
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11/20/2011 02:57 AM
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Re: Irrefutable argument against fundies who think homosexuality is a choice
Chesswolf,

Great example of fallacious reasoning:
A fallacy is incorrect argumentation in logic and rhetoric resulting in a lack of validity, or more generally, a lack of soundness.

That is the polite rebuttal to your incoherent argument.

The impolite rebuttal is that your post is a splash of diarrhea from the mind of a rebellious, petulant child.
Horace bubba

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Re: Irrefutable argument against fundies who think homosexuality is a choice
Horace - your definition of "selfishness" is going to have me laughing for days! TY
 Quoting: jdb


It's from The Devil's Dictionary, by Ambrose Bierce.

Seriously, check it out.

(Here it is in it's entirety online. For free no less.)

devil6

[link to www.alcyone.com]
The Devil would never go down to Georgia.

Eeew.
Anonymous Coward
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11/20/2011 02:58 AM
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Re: Irrefutable argument against fundies who think homosexuality is a choice
Actually, no, you really are the one that can't follow a logical argument.

I'll type it out more slowly this time so your brain cells will have more time to register the words:

Replace the word "homosexuality" in your 1st sentence with anything else you like.

Clearly there isn't anything specific to homosexuality in what you're saying.

You wouldn't be stupid enough to believe that jaywalking is anything other than a choice, do you? Do you seriously believe that people are "born" jaywalkers?

Well, guess what. Just because some people choose to jaywalk doesn't mean that everyone else who doesn't jaywalk is also a jaywalker.

Imbecile.
jdb

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11/20/2011 02:59 AM

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Re: Irrefutable argument against fundies who think homosexuality is a choice
Circular reasoning! But, I'll do you one better! Your premise that because you were "born this way", you are justified in living that way...yes?

God's Word tells us that we are broken...ALL OF US! We are born into sin...we are totally depraved! So, the premise that because you were born this way doesn't hold water! By the way, I DO NOT speak against you with a judgmental spirit...nor do I condemn you! I encourage you (and all of us) to step over your (our)depravity and surrender to Jesus! He is our only hope!
 Quoting: jdb


Can't help but hit this topic either.

So many of you "Christians" fail to understand that you live in a country where there is this thing called Freedom of Religion, and not everyone chooses or wants to believe in what you believe, or even your brand of said belief.

Just because you think they're going to hell doesn't mean they necessarily are, and its not your place to try to badger them into submission.

Just because something is different doesn't make it wrong.

I bet you eat shellfish and your clothes are made of different types of fabric. I'm not screaming at you that you're going to hell for choosing to eat pork or shrimp or wear cotton polyester blend. This is no different.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1529923


Thank you for your reply!

Apples and Oranges!

This IS the difference - you can go your way or you can go God's way - free will! It's not *that I think* people are going to hell...its what God has to say on the subject! My opinions are more then worthless...they are destructive...so I avoid *my* opinions and stick with His Word! Look...have your way! I am just warning you that, according to The Word of God, you will regret it with a regret that is beyond your imagination for eternity! Why risk that? BTW - I think religion sucks!
God Is! We're not! Let's knock off all the nonsense!
jdb

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Re: Irrefutable argument against fundies who think homosexuality is a choice
Horace - your definition of "selfishness" is going to have me laughing for days! TY
 Quoting: jdb


It's from The Devil's Dictionary, by Ambrose Bierce.

Seriously, check it out.

(Here it is in it's entirety online. For free no less.)

devil6

[link to www.alcyone.com]
 Quoting: Horace bubba


LOL
God Is! We're not! Let's knock off all the nonsense!
Cheswolf (OP)

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11/20/2011 03:02 AM
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Re: Irrefutable argument against fundies who think homosexuality is a choice
So, if you believe that homosexuality is a choice you must also agree that you are saying that you could sleep with a member of the same sex. So you, by your own definition, are saying that YOU are a bisexual. I know that it’s not a choice because I could not decide to sleep with a dude, I find nothing attractive when looking at another man. So Fundies must admit that they are not heterosexual but that they are, in fact, attracted to members of their own sex and are bisexual.


Prove me wrong……
 Quoting: Cheswolf


Circular reasoning! But, I'll do you one better! Your premise that because you were "born this way", you are justified in living that way...yes?

God's Word tells us that we are broken...ALL OF US! We are born into sin...we are totally depraved! So, the premise that because you were born this way doesn't hold water! By the way, I DO NOT speak against you with a judgmental spirit...nor do I condemn you! I encourage you (and all of us) to step over your (our)depravity and surrender to Jesus! He is our only hope!
 Quoting: jdb


Oh no, im not saying it's justified in any way, it is indeed against scripture. Original sin, and total depravity is lost on most of the modern world. Jesus is the only hope, and to the elect they will find peace.

What I am saying tho is that, it's not a choice. It does not make it "right" or "wrong" just that they are born into sin like the rest of us.
Horace bubba

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Re: Irrefutable argument against fundies who think homosexuality is a choice
Horace - your definition of "selfishness" is going to have me laughing for days! TY
 Quoting: jdb


It's from The Devil's Dictionary, by Ambrose Bierce.

Seriously, check it out.

(Here it is in it's entirety online. For free no less.)

devil6

[link to www.alcyone.com]
 Quoting: Horace bubba


LOL
 Quoting: jdb


I have a friend who plays this damned "instrument".

yeahsure

ACCORDION, n.
An instrument in harmony with the sentiments of an assassin.
The Devil would never go down to Georgia.

Eeew.
Cheswolf (OP)

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11/20/2011 03:06 AM
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Re: Irrefutable argument against fundies who think homosexuality is a choice
Chesswolf,

Great example of fallacious reasoning:
A fallacy is incorrect argumentation in logic and rhetoric resulting in a lack of validity, or more generally, a lack of soundness.

That is the polite rebuttal to your incoherent argument.

The impolite rebuttal is that your post is a splash of diarrhea from the mind of a rebellious, petulant child.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5466412


3 words "argumentum ad hominem".. try attacking the idea not me.
jdb

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11/20/2011 03:06 AM

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Re: Irrefutable argument against fundies who think homosexuality is a choice
So, if you believe that homosexuality is a choice you must also agree that you are saying that you could sleep with a member of the same sex. So you, by your own definition, are saying that YOU are a bisexual. I know that it’s not a choice because I could not decide to sleep with a dude, I find nothing attractive when looking at another man. So Fundies must admit that they are not heterosexual but that they are, in fact, attracted to members of their own sex and are bisexual.


Prove me wrong……
 Quoting: Cheswolf


Circular reasoning! But, I'll do you one better! Your premise that because you were "born this way", you are justified in living that way...yes?

God's Word tells us that we are broken...ALL OF US! We are born into sin...we are totally depraved! So, the premise that because you were born this way doesn't hold water! By the way, I DO NOT speak against you with a judgmental spirit...nor do I condemn you! I encourage you (and all of us) to step over your (our)depravity and surrender to Jesus! He is our only hope!
 Quoting: jdb


Oh no, im not saying it's justified in any way, it is indeed against scripture. Original sin, and total depravity is lost on most of the modern world. Jesus is the only hope, and to the elect they will find peace.

What I am saying tho is that, it's not a choice. It does not make it "right" or "wrong" just that they are born into sin like the rest of us.
 Quoting: Cheswolf


gotcha! TY for clearing that up! BTW, I have a "nature inclination" to wipe out criminals and all those I deem as antisocial punks on the spot...good thing I don't act on that inclination...good thing someone else with the same inclination didn't wipe me out years ago!

Praise God!
God Is! We're not! Let's knock off all the nonsense!
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Irrefutable argument against fundies who think homosexuality is a choice
Thank you for your reply!

Apples and Oranges!

This IS the difference - you can go your way or you can go God's way - free will! It's not *that I think* people are going to hell...its what God has to say on the subject! My opinions are more then worthless...they are destructive...so I avoid *my* opinions and stick with His Word! Look...have your way! I am just warning you that, according to The Word of God, you will regret it with a regret that is beyond your imagination for eternity! Why risk that? BTW - I think religion sucks!


God hasn't been proven... Buddah has nothing to say about homosexuality and it is not shunned in the Jade Palace.

Point being, your belifs are not necessarily theirs, and it's not your place to preach, scream, protest, or force said belifs onto them.

Also, pretending to be someone or something you are not IS something you will live to regret for eternity, there is no greater torture.
jdb

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11/20/2011 03:07 AM

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Re: Irrefutable argument against fundies who think homosexuality is a choice
Horace - your definition of "selfishness" is going to have me laughing for days! TY
 Quoting: jdb


It's from The Devil's Dictionary, by Ambrose Bierce.

Seriously, check it out.

(Here it is in it's entirety online. For free no less.)

devil6

[link to www.alcyone.com]
 Quoting: Horace bubba


LOL
 Quoting: jdb


I have a friend who plays this damned "instrument".

yeahsure

ACCORDION, n.
An instrument in harmony with the sentiments of an assassin.
 Quoting: Horace bubba


LMAO...ok, I'll check it out!
God Is! We're not! Let's knock off all the nonsense!
Anonymous Coward
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11/20/2011 03:09 AM
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Re: Irrefutable argument against fundies who think homosexuality is a choice
I've used that argument before...the jesus lickers like to say that being gay is a choice..but by that reasoning so is being straight...so then they are admitting that everyone, even themselves, are born bisexual and then at some point they choose what parts to play with....

I do think that most homophobes are in fact closet gays and thats why they are so obsessed with gay sex. I am straight and I could really care less what gay people do in bed...but these christians seem to think about gay sex so much of the time.

Oddly enough, I found that most christians do turn out to be homosexual pedophiles though....
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Irrefutable argument against fundies who think homosexuality is a choice
Cheswolf's reasoning makes perfect sense.
However, it assumes that all people are honest with themselves and the world. Obviously that is not the case and people lie not only to others but to themselves as well.

Cheers, Cheswolf, your arguement is sound.
jdb

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Re: Irrefutable argument against fundies who think homosexuality is a choice
I've used that argument before...the jesus lickers like to say that being gay is a choice..but by that reasoning so is being straight...so then they are admitting that everyone, even themselves, are born bisexual and then at some point they choose what parts to play with....

I do think that most homophobes are in fact closet gays and thats why they are so obsessed with gay sex. I am straight and I could really care less what gay people do in bed...but these christians seem to think about gay sex so much of the time.

Oddly enough, I found that most christians do turn out to be homosexual pedophiles though....
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3868333


come on...Really? Dude, calm down!
God Is! We're not! Let's knock off all the nonsense!
jdb

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11/20/2011 03:12 AM

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Re: Irrefutable argument against fundies who think homosexuality is a choice
God hasn't been proven... Buddah has nothing to say about homosexuality and it is not shunned in the Jade Palace.

Point being, your belifs are not necessarily theirs, and it's not your place to preach, scream, protest, or force said belifs onto them.

Also, pretending to be someone or something you are not IS something you will live to regret for eternity, there is no greater torture.
 Quoting:

Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1529923


Like I said...have your way - free will!

Last Edited by jdb on 11/20/2011 03:16 AM
God Is! We're not! Let's knock off all the nonsense!
danmas
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11/20/2011 04:29 AM
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Re: Irrefutable argument against fundies who think homosexuality is a choice
So, if you believe that homosexuality is a choice you must also agree that you are saying that you could sleep with a member of the same sex. So you, by your own definition, are saying that YOU are a bisexual. I know that it’s not a choice because I could not decide to sleep with a dude, I find nothing attractive when looking at another man. So Fundies must admit that they are not heterosexual but that they are, in fact, attracted to members of their own sex and are bisexual.


Prove me wrong……
 Quoting: Cheswolf


I brought up this argument years ago. Still valid though and 5stars. .high five.
lassensage

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11/20/2011 05:59 AM
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Re: Irrefutable argument against fundies who think homosexuality is a choice
I don't know any straight folks who could change to Gay..Nor would I ask or expect them to..I certainly cannot judge them.

Gay isn't easy, but it has it's gifts. Once you question your own sexuality and discover that you might just be Gay.. It makes you wonder about everything else that you have been taught.

Truth is that we are who we are,,whatever our parts,,,working or not,,missing or??

Why does society work so hard to make us straight??

I honestly do not give a fiddler's dick, a brass monkey's balls, or an Amazon's Breast what anyone else does with their body parts...

What is the fuss? Do you really believe we are just bodies??

Love is Love..I am happy to see Folks in Love..whatever age,shape,,whatever..
Dance in the Dark

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Re: Irrefutable argument against fundies who think homosexuality is a choice
So, if you believe that homosexuality is a choice you must also agree that you are saying that you could sleep with a member of the same sex. So you, by your own definition, are saying that YOU are a bisexual. I know that it’s not a choice because I could not decide to sleep with a dude, I find nothing attractive when looking at another man. So Fundies must admit that they are not heterosexual but that they are, in fact, attracted to members of their own sex and are bisexual.


Prove me wrong……
 Quoting: Cheswolf


Circular reasoning! But, I'll do you one better! Your premise that because you were "born this way", you are justified in living that way...yes?

God's Word tells us that we are broken...ALL OF US! We are born into sin...we are totally depraved! So, the premise that because you were born this way doesn't hold water! By the way, I DO NOT speak against you with a judgmental spirit...nor do I condemn you! I encourage you (and all of us) to step over your (our)depravity and surrender to Jesus! He is our only hope!
 Quoting: jdb


Oh no, im not saying it's justified in any way, it is indeed against scripture. Original sin, and total depravity is lost on most of the modern world. Jesus is the only hope, and to the elect they will find peace.

What I am saying tho is that, it's not a choice. It does not make it "right" or "wrong" just that they are born into sin like the rest of us.
 Quoting: Cheswolf


gotcha! TY for clearing that up! BTW, I have a "nature inclination" to wipe out criminals and all those I deem as antisocial punks on the spot...good thing I don't act on that inclination...good thing someone else with the same inclination didn't wipe me out years ago!

Praise God!
 Quoting: jdb

Wow, that's your worst argument yet on this thread.
I bet you still follow your natural inclination as far as sexual orientation goes.

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