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HOLY SHIT - TEPCO Bailing out of Fukushima

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 4879395
United States
11/23/2011 04:44 PM
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Re: HOLY SHIT - TEPCO Bailing out of Fukushima
Oh my, this is not good. Why for the love of Pete don't they put a sarcophagus over them? They seem to be just fumbling about waiting for the melt-through and hit the water table. I was following this for quite a while, Arnie Gunderson has been a good source.

OP,

:5-star-for-u:
ichicax4
User ID: 3398825
United States
11/23/2011 05:00 PM
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Re: HOLY SHIT - TEPCO Bailing out of Fukushima
If fuku blows bigtime it actually could be a good thing. Blow the whole mess into the ocean and air all at once, instead of spewing rads for decades/centuries. We shelter indoors for 14-30 days, come out and the process of decontamination can begin. Right now you can't decontaminate anything except yourself and your house, because the shit keeps on coming. The stuff blown into the ocean would be somewhat protected under water. The ocean would be toast, but I think it probably already is.

The EQ there today is concerning tho, if sfp #4 falls over, Tokyo will have to be evacuated immediately. Someone (Tacomagroove?) did an extensive math problem on here once showing how many weks/months/years it would take to fly everyone out.

Here's a vid about sfp #4 tipping over, and what we would need to do in the US:

[link to www.youtube.com]

An explosion or hydrovolcanic type deal would mean the same, just worse.

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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 5804961
Turkey
11/23/2011 05:16 PM
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Re: HOLY SHIT - TEPCO Bailing out of Fukushima
What exactly do they mean by “Huge steam explosions” ?

A normal explosion or a full nuclear detonation (mushroom cloud and all) ?
 Quoting: subzero86


Normal high pressure explosion.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 972619


not quite the explosion would be

1/ phreatic (i.e. volcanic explosion in nature)
2/ likely to generate hydrogen from the water due to the heat of the corium resulting in a hydrogen/oxygen explosion
3/ hugely radioactive
timex

User ID: 5772227
Belarus
11/23/2011 05:18 PM
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Re: HOLY SHIT - TEPCO Bailing out of Fukushima
In short, he says Tepco started reducing the number of workers because they can not do anything for the reactors anymore. [...]

He explains, the next thing to do is to check the state of container vessels pressure vessels, define the actual point of the leakage of contaminated water, and action to stop the leakage, but there is zero plan / idea how to manage it.

The interiors of the buildings are extremely radioactive and nobody can officially go into reactor 3 [...] The only thing they can do is to analyze the gas from inside of the container vessels.

Thus nothing can be done by human anymore. They can only clean debris, take away broken operation floor, maintain the water purifying system, setting new tanks etc..


No More sea food. Tuna...etc...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4227306


You must 100% bat shit crazy to still eat asian seafood.
higher than high

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GeekOfTheWeek

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11/23/2011 05:53 PM
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Re: HOLY SHIT - TEPCO Bailing out of Fukushima
Bert,

It's being reported China Syndrome is upon us , god help us.
 Quoting: Magneto-tard


Been that way for a long time, probably within a few hours after that one reactor blew it's top, after that it was a daisy chain.

What kills me, is it takes THIS long to get it out, basically they are "letting" this out, as a way to ask for solutions.
I love physics. It bonds us eternally, it's what makes our computers work, it's what's in my morning cup of coffee, it's the thing that keeps the universe from vanishing due to lack of belief...
Lazarus
User ID: 5920834
Canada
11/23/2011 06:21 PM
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Re: HOLY SHIT - TEPCO Bailing out of Fukushima
I wonder if it would be feasible to use one of those giant boring machines to dig a chamber underneath the meltdown to capture and contain it somehow? Or is this stuff just too hot to handle?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 5914362
United States
11/23/2011 07:34 PM
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Re: HOLY SHIT - TEPCO Bailing out of Fukushima
Phoenix is 150 miles from us and while reading the link below seen it hit 61 cpm. [link to radiationnetwork.com]

The US is in a killing field, but industrialize cities have higher levels of radiation. They're in an electromagnetic death house, carbon rich, heavy emissions fuel for reactive particles.
Southern OR

User ID: 2183660
United States
11/23/2011 08:11 PM

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Re: HOLY SHIT - TEPCO Bailing out of Fukushima
These are the videos from TEPCO’s recent video dump. Some were previously released and others were not. TEPCO states these videos will only be up until December so they will go away on their website in a few days

[link to www.simplyinfo.org]

Last Edited by Southern OR on 11/23/2011 08:11 PM
"Well-behaved women seldom make history." —Laurel Thatcher Ulrich

I am only one, but I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can do something. And I will not let what I cannot do interfere with what I can do. ~Edward Everett Hale
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 5694208
Canada
11/23/2011 08:13 PM
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Re: HOLY SHIT - TEPCO Bailing out of Fukushima
6.1 eq there today
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 5694208
Canada
11/23/2011 08:14 PM
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Re: HOLY SHIT - TEPCO Bailing out of Fukushima
6.1 eq there today
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5694208


MAP

6.1

2011/11/23 19:24:32

37.373

141.387

33.3

NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN
metz87

User ID: 4266316
United States
11/23/2011 08:23 PM
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Re: HOLY SHIT - TEPCO Bailing out of Fukushima
more earthquakes. That can't be good and I see no reason that it is not causing even more damage to a already messed up nuclear plant. Now all we need is another 9.0 and a tsunumi to finish the deal.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1345673
Australia
11/24/2011 12:45 AM
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Re: HOLY SHIT - TEPCO Bailing out of Fukushima
I asked about China Syndrome situation and possible outcomes on GLP shortly after the incident occured. I remember one of the reponses i got was from a proclaimed Nuclear industry scientist, who told me that there was not enough radioactive mass to burn a whole through the earth, rather that it would continue to burn at criticality until it looses enough mass.

Now i don't necessarily believe that this was a nuclear scientist or that how theroy was correct, but thought i would share for others to investigate.
SHRModerator
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11/24/2011 01:14 AM

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Re: HOLY SHIT - TEPCO Bailing out of Fukushima
Someone sent me a PM saying we need an SHR makes this easy to understand and where we stand thread about this whole fukushima mess...

I dunno...takes me some time to research and write those for real...we'll see...
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 5935692
United States
11/24/2011 01:31 AM
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Re: HOLY SHIT - TEPCO Bailing out of Fukushima
Bert,

It's being reported China Syndrome is upon us , god help us.
 Quoting: Magneto-tard

Yep, They announce we are all Walking Dead and not a word about it in the news. The stuxnet virus caused those Nuke plants to go out of control and now it will just nuke the whole northern hemisphere. I guess they can nuke Iran now and we'd never be able to tell it because they now have the perfect cover...just blame the radiation on Japan.

Lets be honest here.....this is going to make the Holocaust look like a picnic. Over 5 million dead since the Bosnia war and now the whole northern Hemisphere is doomed. I don't have to tell you who is to blame for this, whats the point? We are all toast and there is nothing anyone can do about it. The "master race" will finally get its population reduction....just a matter of time now but even that is not fast enough for them...nope, even now those insane clowns still want to invade Syria and Iran. They won't be happy until we are all dead. Its in God's hands now.


.
Aunty Flo

User ID: 5926188
Australia
11/24/2011 01:33 AM

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Re: HOLY SHIT - TEPCO Bailing out of Fukushima
Bert,

It's being reported China Syndrome is upon us , god help us.
 Quoting: Magneto-tard


what are you saying?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4227306


There's a hole in the earth that goes all the way to China

da da dahh da da dahhhhh.
Silvershallows
User ID: 462458
Netherlands
11/24/2011 02:01 AM
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Re: HOLY SHIT - TEPCO Bailing out of Fukushima
The shameful shame...Of course it did have an huge impact, but they could have done more in the beginning to avoid this.
Or they could have put up cover panels for all the reactors (not just only Reactor 1) at almost the same time. Well, I hope for the best and that the earthquakes can make those corium blobs underground lose their mass.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 5946053
Germany
11/24/2011 10:06 AM
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Re: HOLY SHIT - TEPCO Bailing out of Fukushima
People, this is scary!hiding
I've been living in this nightmare since the beginning. I've been thru Chernobil, now I have thyroid problems....this will finish me and many millions. I don't even want to know what's in our future. verysad
 Quoting: Lilac.Nights


Hello!
I did not live in Chernobyl, but I have thyroid problems, too.
When there will not be these hormons, because too much people get the same problems, I will surely die quickly. Only three months without pills, and I jump into the grave. So, sad.
How are you now? Can you buy hormons in drugstore or must you get a recept from the doc?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 4831949
Australia
11/25/2011 11:48 PM
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Re: HOLY SHIT - TEPCO Bailing out of Fukushima
The big thing that had them worried at chernobyl was the big explosion, that they could foresee.

So they dumped lead and boron bricks in, and managed to "disperse" the corium. Basicly they diluted the neutron activity, which helps to "cool" the corium.

The "big explosion" that they could foresee, was a steam explosion, INITIALY, but just as reactor 3, where a hydrogen explosion also caused a prompt criticality detonation.

So what they were worried about was the initial steam explosion compressing all the nuclear melted fuel, causing a prompt criticality, which then starts a chain reaction.

They were concerned that the chain reaction would also engulf all nuclear fuel at the site. This is where they get the "europe uninhabitable" from.

This was science telling them what would happen.

Which is why they "threw" 500,000 people at it.

The amount of fuel, both spent, fresh, as yet unused etc just in the spent fuel pools alone is enough to kill the entire world.

If the reactor 4 spent fuel pool collapses, there would almost certainly be an enormous prompt criticalty that could easily initiate a chain reaction whereby all the fuel on site "goes off" in one earth shattering explosion.

This is real science. There are many many variables now at fukushima, which could start this process.

People are saying things like "there isnt enough enriched fuel to cause this etc"

Sorry, wrong. Spent fuel rods sitting in clusters in spent fuel pools for years, produce curium. You cant get much more "enriched" then "curium"

Chernobyl exploded wide open, also allowing access via helicopter drop. They were extremely lucky.

The relativly "small" amount of uranium that had melted down, was cause enough to panic.

The prompt criticality/nuclear chain reaction/detonation scenario was there all the same.

I also am actually in favour of blowing the place apart (fukushima) once we somehow remove the spent fuel.

A lot of the "spent" fuel is actually fresh. The spent fuel pools have somehow "lost" a word! and that word is........................"TEMPORARY"

The "temporary spent fuel pools" were NEVER designed to "store" 40 years worth of nuclear rods.

They are all full at this time. Albiet melted down etc.

Even without all this "fuel" in "storage", so lets pretend for a minute that all the spent fuel pools are empty, there is still enough fuel amongst the melted cores to initiate a horribly big explosion. But because all the pools ARE full, that fuel could easily really become "fuel" in the chain reaction.

Im trying to biuld a picture here, im not sure if im succeeding,lol, the bullet point here i suppose, is that there is easily enough variables at fukushima, for the whole situation to suddenly, horribly, become, oh, about a million times worse, if you can even imagine that!.

I said it yonks ago, that the micro readings they are currently getting, are going to keep increasing. They will eventually start getting into the mille range.

It is simple, vast and uncountable amounts of extremely deadly micoscopic particles are being "generated" every second, of every hour,day,month, etc.

There is no way to stop it.

Either it all blows up, killing the entire world, or it "blows up" slowly, pouring out trillions and trillions of deadly particles every day.

Either way makes no difference to the science. No difference to what we can foresee, what we know will happen.

What is inevitable.

What the Russians envisaged in chernobyl, the Japanese are certain of.

There really is nothing they can do. When they said "uncharted waters" they meant it. We dont actually know what happens when 3/4/5/6 reactors in a row, completely melt through/down etc.

What we do know is what science tells us SHOULD happen.

And thats the scary part that no one wants to discuss.

It is way to late in the day to apply boron/lead bricks, we cant access the corium to do it.

The reactors themselves didnt explode wide open such as chernobyl did, so the melted corium is the whole amount.
And with there being the "whole" amount in one blob, there is a terrificly more amount of "heat", especially with the "mox"

A nuclear bomb doesnt actually need a lot of uranium to explode/reach chain reaction etc What it does need are the exact correct variables.

Fukushima meets all the requirements.

There I think I said that right!, im confusing myself now!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 5769488
United States
11/26/2011 12:07 AM
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Re: HOLY SHIT - TEPCO Bailing out of Fukushima
DUDE! THAT IS DOOOOOOOOOOM!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 5769488
United States
11/26/2011 12:15 AM
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Re: HOLY SHIT - TEPCO Bailing out of Fukushima
SOOOOO...no obama care..no free medical ins..ron paul closes the goverment down..agency's close!!


then what?

uuuhh..cooked like a dry rub slow roasted piglet...

WHILE THE ELITE HIDE IN MX BUNKERS WE PAID FOR?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 6038612
United States
11/26/2011 12:18 AM
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Re: HOLY SHIT - TEPCO Bailing out of Fukushima
What exactly do they mean by “Huge steam explosions” ?

A normal explosion or a full nuclear detonation (mushroom cloud and all) ?
 Quoting: subzero86


Think of about 100 tons of molten metal at 2000F hitting a huge pool of water.
 Quoting: DoorBert


and then the molten metal won't cool off, and then it turns the water directly into hydrogen and oxygen, and then the hydrogen is ignited by the molten metal (corium), and then you rinse lather and repeat, and then .... NO MORE, AND THEN!!
 Quoting: Proskiracer



Just wanted to point out this wrong because the heat will not turn the water into oxygen and hydrogen. It will remains as water in the form of superheated steam.
Southern OR

User ID: 2183660
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11/26/2011 12:24 AM

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Re: HOLY SHIT - TEPCO Bailing out of Fukushima
In a nutshell, this is some crazy serious shit. There is no historical data to go on. It will only go from bad to worse in my opinion.
"Well-behaved women seldom make history." —Laurel Thatcher Ulrich

I am only one, but I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can do something. And I will not let what I cannot do interfere with what I can do. ~Edward Everett Hale
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1523520
Canada
11/26/2011 01:58 AM
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Re: HOLY SHIT - TEPCO Bailing out of Fukushima
Amazing. THANKS General Electric!

How many of you twerps are still buying their products??


Do NOT support assholes.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 5940175
United States
11/26/2011 02:22 AM
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Re: HOLY SHIT - TEPCO Bailing out of Fukushima
SOOOOO...no obama care..no free medical ins..ron paul closes the goverment down..agency's close!!


then what?

uuuhh..cooked like a dry rub slow roasted piglet...

WHILE THE ELITE HIDE IN MX BUNKERS WE PAID FOR?
 Quoting: GonViral


No elite asshole is exempt from this doom. You could burrow thousands of feet underground with a lifetime of food and it'll still get 'em. There's no conspiracy in this.

Everyone WILL die from FUKUSHIMA

Nothing to do with karma, fate or destiny.

Human ignorance and greed will cancel this epoch.

Time for the reset button.
RTS REDUX

User ID: 1388392
United States
11/27/2011 03:13 AM

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Re: HOLY SHIT - TEPCO Bailing out of Fukushima
there's a NOAA map of the estimated path of the plume following the initial Hydrogen explosion at the following link

[link to www.earthweek.com]

I had no idea that NOAA even had maps like this

does anyone know where to find the archive of these types of maps on the NOAA site?

edit to add: I saw some HYSPLIT projections that stopped short of the US mainland shortly after the explosion but I've never seen one that showed the actual path of the plume like at the link above

I think it comes from somewhere on the following page but may require a NOAA password to access

[link to ready.arl.noaa.gov]

Last Edited by RTS REDUX on 11/27/2011 04:41 AM
"If one understands that socialism is not a share-the-wealth programme, but is in reality a method to consolidate and control the wealth, then the seeming paradox of super-rich men promoting socialism becomes no paradox at all. Instead, it becomes logical, even the perfect tool of power-seeking megalomaniacs.

Communism or more accurately, socialism, is not a movement of the downtrodden masses, but of the economic elite."

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