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No Wonder America’s Founders Distrusted Standing Armies and PLEASE Comment With OPEN and FAIR discussion !

 
Borday

User ID: 2913157
United States
12/02/2011 09:39 PM
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Re: No Wonder America’s Founders Distrusted Standing Armies and PLEASE Comment With OPEN and FAIR discussion !
Think.........Just think outside of the Box, and comment.
 Quoting: AdHocBOHICA


A citizen militia modeled on teh Swiss system is much closer to what the founders could envision than this banker Hessian armed military. How's that?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 945560


Spot ON! and I am very familiar with the model you speak.

clappa
 Quoting: AdHocBOHICA




 Quoting: SnaFuBar


yes this is so right on the money ,should have watched before I posted.
Also what a want to be socialist/communist government fears the most . armed populace.
AdHocBOHICA (OP)

User ID: 1530155
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12/02/2011 09:42 PM
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Re: No Wonder America’s Founders Distrusted Standing Armies and PLEASE Comment With OPEN and FAIR discussion !
As a member of the military I want to make a few comments that I have noticed about the service. Firstly as a Jeffersonian Republican I have found far far far more people in the military of a like mindset than people in the general populace. Granted I believe that there are a lot of your general neo-con America fuck yeah types and a smattering of liberals but it has been my privilege to have served with many patriotic Americans who believe in our republic and actually remember we are a republic and not a democracy.

You are right that a standing army is a danger especially because of its step up with a chain of command its hard to act individually in the defense of liberty if the high command isnt on board. But I wont comment on the possible actions of our military in a constitutional crisis I will just comment that the caliber of people who support the constitution over blind obedience is quite high within our armed forces.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5143280


Thank YOU and your fellow "mates" as it were. I am also a prior service member and I was CBA all my enlisted TIS.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 4594667
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12/02/2011 09:50 PM
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Re: No Wonder America’s Founders Distrusted Standing Armies and PLEASE Comment With OPEN and FAIR discussion !
As a member of the military I want to make a few comments that I have noticed about the service. Firstly as a Jeffersonian Republican I have found far far far more people in the military of a like mindset than people in the general populace. Granted I believe that there are a lot of your general neo-con America fuck yeah types and a smattering of liberals but it has been my privilege to have served with many patriotic Americans who believe in our republic and actually remember we are a republic and not a democracy.

You are right that a standing army is a danger especially because of its step up with a chain of command its hard to act individually in the defense of liberty if the high command isnt on board. But I wont comment on the possible actions of our military in a constitutional crisis I will just comment that the caliber of people who support the constitution over blind obedience is quite high within our armed forces.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5143280



I believe that we as a people are not any different than people in any other place or time. That human nature does not change.

Obviously this was why the citizen soldier was crucial to the security of the republic. It is too dangerous to have this removed. This is how Stalin, Hitler, Mao, and countless others have succeeded in murdering millions of their own citizens by using them like pawns in chess game.

The writting is on the wall for all to see now is it not?
AdHocBOHICA (OP)

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12/02/2011 09:52 PM
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Re: No Wonder America’s Founders Distrusted Standing Armies and PLEASE Comment With OPEN and FAIR discussion !
Our thought was "we" as in we as in the Service of OUR Nation which at that time our Nation consisted of our friends, family, neighbors and those we did not know. It was NOT THE GOVERNMENT at any particular time that was in power. But that was us then. You see a dictionary is a GREAT thing.
AdHocBOHICA (OP)

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12/02/2011 09:53 PM
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Re: No Wonder America’s Founders Distrusted Standing Armies and PLEASE Comment With OPEN and FAIR discussion !
As a member of the military I want to make a few comments that I have noticed about the service. Firstly as a Jeffersonian Republican I have found far far far more people in the military of a like mindset than people in the general populace. Granted I believe that there are a lot of your general neo-con America fuck yeah types and a smattering of liberals but it has been my privilege to have served with many patriotic Americans who believe in our republic and actually remember we are a republic and not a democracy.

You are right that a standing army is a danger especially because of its step up with a chain of command its hard to act individually in the defense of liberty if the high command isnt on board. But I wont comment on the possible actions of our military in a constitutional crisis I will just comment that the caliber of people who support the constitution over blind obedience is quite high within our armed forces.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5143280



I believe that we as a people are not any different than people in any other place or time. That human nature does not change.

Obviously this was why the citizen soldier was crucial to the security of the republic. It is too dangerous to have this removed. This is how Stalin, Hitler, Mao, and countless others have succeeded in murdering millions of their own citizens by using them like pawns in chess game.

The writting is on the wall for all to see now is it not?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4594667



We are of like mind.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1371185
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12/02/2011 09:57 PM
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Re: No Wonder America’s Founders Distrusted Standing Armies and PLEASE Comment With OPEN and FAIR discussion !
We wouldn't be having this discussion if it weren't for the heroic men and women of our military. And if it weren't for them you'd be speaking Arabic.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1437365


Really? How would the Arabs get here? In their paddle boats? No country could ever take the U.S. from the outside.. that's why we are being destroyed from the inside..
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1371185


No, you would be speaking German or Japanese. Also defeated by our Conscripted soldiers as much as by our volunteer soldiers.

I do not understand you being offended at all. Again, revist the comments. It is essential that for a nation to remain a republic, it must have a citizen army. Not a volunteer army supplemented with mercenary troops like the British used against us in the Revolutionary War.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4594667


I was talking about the volunteer army. We are already Germany of the late 30's now. Have you seen the laws that have been implemented in the last 10 years alone? Our Freedoms are gone.. where is the military to stop the threat right here at home?
Anonymous Coward
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United States
12/02/2011 10:07 PM
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Re: No Wonder America’s Founders Distrusted Standing Armies and PLEASE Comment With OPEN and FAIR discussion !
As a member of the military I want to make a few comments that I have noticed about the service. Firstly as a Jeffersonian Republican I have found far far far more people in the military of a like mindset than people in the general populace. Granted I believe that there are a lot of your general neo-con America fuck yeah types and a smattering of liberals but it has been my privilege to have served with many patriotic Americans who believe in our republic and actually remember we are a republic and not a democracy.

You are right that a standing army is a danger especially because of its step up with a chain of command its hard to act individually in the defense of liberty if the high command isnt on board. But I wont comment on the possible actions of our military in a constitutional crisis I will just comment that the caliber of people who support the constitution over blind obedience is quite high within our armed forces.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5143280



I believe that we as a people are not any different than people in any other place or time. That human nature does not change.

Obviously this was why the citizen soldier was crucial to the security of the republic. It is too dangerous to have this removed. This is how Stalin, Hitler, Mao, and countless others have succeeded in murdering millions of their own citizens by using them like pawns in chess game.

The writting is on the wall for all to see now is it not?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4594667



We are of like mind.
 Quoting: AdHocBOHICA


Yes, I agree. Ultimately, the only defense the "Apes" have is to remain steadfast to their beautiful document, elsewise they will again die by the billions once more.

The war isn't really one of which we think: It is a war nonetheless. A war which began with fractional reserve banking and paper notes rented to nations, and on the other side is an ancient concept of gold and silver as money. Two elements with interesting properties. The East holds gold and silver as value. The west is under the control of the paper and computer created wealth.

Make sense?
AdHocBOHICA (OP)

User ID: 1530155
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12/02/2011 10:08 PM
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Re: No Wonder America’s Founders Distrusted Standing Armies and PLEASE Comment With OPEN and FAIR discussion !
We wouldn't be having this discussion if it weren't for the heroic men and women of our military. And if it weren't for them you'd be speaking Arabic.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1437365


Really? How would the Arabs get here? In their paddle boats? No country could ever take the U.S. from the outside.. that's why we are being destroyed from the inside..
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1371185


No, you would be speaking German or Japanese. Also defeated by our Conscripted soldiers as much as by our volunteer soldiers.

I do not understand you being offended at all. Again, revist the comments. It is essential that for a nation to remain a republic, it must have a citizen army. Not a volunteer army supplemented with mercenary troops like the British used against us in the Revolutionary War.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4594667


I was talking about the volunteer army. We are already Germany of the late 30's now. Have you seen the laws that have been implemented in the last 10 years alone? Our Freedoms are gone.. where is the military to stop the threat right here at home?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1371185


Just a thought....Our freedoms are written within our being and most definitely not intrinsically guaranteed without attack and surely NOT FREE nor are they secured upon parchment or paper but within our own desire as well and our being and demand to resist attack's upon what YOU Deem freedom.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 4594667
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12/02/2011 10:09 PM
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Re: No Wonder America’s Founders Distrusted Standing Armies and PLEASE Comment With OPEN and FAIR discussion !
We wouldn't be having this discussion if it weren't for the heroic men and women of our military. And if it weren't for them you'd be speaking Arabic.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1437365


Really? How would the Arabs get here? In their paddle boats? No country could ever take the U.S. from the outside.. that's why we are being destroyed from the inside..
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1371185


No, you would be speaking German or Japanese. Also defeated by our Conscripted soldiers as much as by our volunteer soldiers.

I do not understand you being offended at all. Again, revist the comments. It is essential that for a nation to remain a republic, it must have a citizen army. Not a volunteer army supplemented with mercenary troops like the British used against us in the Revolutionary War.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4594667


I was talking about the volunteer army. We are already Germany of the late 30's now. Have you seen the laws that have been implemented in the last 10 years alone? Our Freedoms are gone.. where is the military to stop the threat right here at home?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1371185


Sometimes the wires get Fubared both ways: I'm with ya now.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 5926967
United States
12/02/2011 10:14 PM
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Re: No Wonder America’s Founders Distrusted Standing Armies and PLEASE Comment With OPEN and FAIR discussion !
We wouldn't be having this discussion if it weren't for the heroic men and women of our military. And if it weren't for them you'd be speaking Arabic.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1437365


Really? How would the Arabs get here? In their paddle boats? No country could ever take the U.S. from the outside.. that's why we are being destroyed from the inside..
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1371185


^^^THIS!!!!!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 4594667
United States
12/02/2011 10:17 PM
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Re: No Wonder America’s Founders Distrusted Standing Armies and PLEASE Comment With OPEN and FAIR discussion !
...


Really? How would the Arabs get here? In their paddle boats? No country could ever take the U.S. from the outside.. that's why we are being destroyed from the inside..
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1371185


No, you would be speaking German or Japanese. Also defeated by our Conscripted soldiers as much as by our volunteer soldiers.

I do not understand you being offended at all. Again, revist the comments. It is essential that for a nation to remain a republic, it must have a citizen army. Not a volunteer army supplemented with mercenary troops like the British used against us in the Revolutionary War.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4594667


I was talking about the volunteer army. We are already Germany of the late 30's now. Have you seen the laws that have been implemented in the last 10 years alone? Our Freedoms are gone.. where is the military to stop the threat right here at home?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1371185


Just a thought....Our freedoms are written within our being and most definitely not intrinsically guaranteed without attack and surely NOT FREE nor are they secured upon parchment or paper but within our own desire as well and our being and demand to resist attack's upon what YOU Deem freedom.
 Quoting: AdHocBOHICA


The Bill of Rights are supposed to be prohibitions on the State and Federal Government: Not Rights Granted to us.

Essentially liberty isn't free, but freedoms are freely granted??? See? You make liberty. Freedoms are given to serfs.
QueenLaFollette

User ID: 1316193
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12/02/2011 10:35 PM
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Re: No Wonder America’s Founders Distrusted Standing Armies and PLEASE Comment With OPEN and FAIR discussion !
...


Really? How would the Arabs get here? In their paddle boats? No country could ever take the U.S. from the outside.. that's why we are being destroyed from the inside..
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1371185


No, you would be speaking German or Japanese. Also defeated by our Conscripted soldiers as much as by our volunteer soldiers.

I do not understand you being offended at all. Again, revist the comments. It is essential that for a nation to remain a republic, it must have a citizen army. Not a volunteer army supplemented with mercenary troops like the British used against us in the Revolutionary War.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4594667


I was talking about the volunteer army. We are already Germany of the late 30's now. Have you seen the laws that have been implemented in the last 10 years alone? Our Freedoms are gone.. where is the military to stop the threat right here at home?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1371185


Just a thought....Our freedoms are written within our being and most definitely not intrinsically guaranteed without attack and surely NOT FREE nor are they secured upon parchment or paper but within our own desire as well and our being and demand to resist attack's upon what YOU Deem freedom.
 Quoting: AdHocBOHICA


I have been saying this for years, to no avail. As George Bush so eloquently said, it IS just a GD piece of paper.
It is our God given right to be free. We must uphold it or die trying.
There should not even have to be a piece of paper for people to realize this. It is written in our hearts.
If it be asked, What is the most sacred duty and the greatest source of our security in a Republic? The answer would be, An inviolable respect for the Constitution and Laws.
Alexander Hamilton
Anonymous Coward
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12/02/2011 10:46 PM
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Re: No Wonder America’s Founders Distrusted Standing Armies and PLEASE Comment With OPEN and FAIR discussion !
...


No, you would be speaking German or Japanese. Also defeated by our Conscripted soldiers as much as by our volunteer soldiers.

I do not understand you being offended at all. Again, revist the comments. It is essential that for a nation to remain a republic, it must have a citizen army. Not a volunteer army supplemented with mercenary troops like the British used against us in the Revolutionary War.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4594667


I was talking about the volunteer army. We are already Germany of the late 30's now. Have you seen the laws that have been implemented in the last 10 years alone? Our Freedoms are gone.. where is the military to stop the threat right here at home?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1371185


Just a thought....Our freedoms are written within our being and most definitely not intrinsically guaranteed without attack and surely NOT FREE nor are they secured upon parchment or paper but within our own desire as well and our being and demand to resist attack's upon what YOU Deem freedom.
 Quoting: AdHocBOHICA


I have been saying this for years, to no avail. As George Bush so eloquently said, it IS just a GD piece of paper.
It is our God given right to be free. We must uphold it or die trying.
There should not even have to be a piece of paper for people to realize this. It is written in our hearts.
 Quoting: QueenLaFollette


bump
SnaFuBar

User ID: 1196726
United States
12/02/2011 11:22 PM

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Re: No Wonder America’s Founders Distrusted Standing Armies and PLEASE Comment With OPEN and FAIR discussion !
bump
"Politics is the entertainment division of the Military Industrial Complex"-Frank Zappa
[link to luckofthedraw.forumotion.com]
Anonymous Coward
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12/02/2011 11:39 PM
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Re: No Wonder America’s Founders Distrusted Standing Armies and PLEASE Comment With OPEN and FAIR discussion !
Think.........Just think outside of the Box, and comment.
 Quoting: AdHocBOHICA


Our founding fathers hated monarchies. This would include Britain, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Thailand, etc. How sad it is that we have allowed ourselves to feel that we are morally wrong to feel hatred for this type of life. Monarch programming. Of course we as US citizens should hate this.

Standing armies most likely had to do with how asshole lords and knights behaved to acquire wealth for their kingdoms, thus themselves.
Anonymous Coward
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12/03/2011 12:58 AM
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Re: No Wonder America’s Founders Distrusted Standing Armies and PLEASE Comment With OPEN and FAIR discussion !
I understand what your saying. What would you suggest instead? I am one of those who support our troops. Always have and I can't imagine ever stopping.
 Quoting: devorahg


See: Really only a Draft/Conscription is honest support.
Otherwise, the body politic (you and I) have no vested interest what happens.

Understand? They knew this all along. This is ancient history, at least as ancient as the Roman Legions.

Unless there is chance your kid can come home in a box, then you really aren't going to give shit, and this is what has happened. This is how and why the politics has become a circus all by itself. See, they aren't even running the show any longer. Hell no, we have moved in to the central bank and warfare model.

Isn't it curious how after the great turmoil of the Vietnam War on the homefront, the next real push was for an all volunteer army. The shills went out and sold it, the brainwashing of the volunteers that they are better than the citizens, and here too is real and serious danger.



When every member of the society (in this cas the US) has a child that could be put in harms way, then the public demands accountability. We don't have that. So saying we support our troops is empty and meaningless in all reality in my opinion.

When every member of the society (in this cas the US) has a child that could be put in harms way, then the public demands accountability. We don't have that.

we need to see that whenever a civilization begins to rely upon volunteers and mercenary armies it is the hall mark of collapse of that civilization.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4594667


you will be corrected on several accounts and remain corrected.
i'm too tired.
Anonymous Coward
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04/13/2013 05:06 PM
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Re: No Wonder America’s Founders Distrusted Standing Armies and PLEASE Comment With OPEN and FAIR discussion !
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