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No Wonder America’s Founders Distrusted Standing Armies and PLEASE Comment With OPEN and FAIR discussion !

 
AdHocBOHICA
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12/02/2011 08:30 PM
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No Wonder America’s Founders Distrusted Standing Armies and PLEASE Comment With OPEN and FAIR discussion !
Let us see where this discussion leads...........

No Wonder America’s Founders Distrusted Standing Armies
By Chuck Baldwin
December 1, 2011

It is well documented that many of America’s Founding Fathers had a
very real and deep-seated distrust of standing armies--and for good
reason. They had just fought a costly and bloody war for independence,
which had been largely predicated upon the propensities for the abuse
and misuse of individual liberties by a pervasive and powerful
standing army (belonging to Great Britain) amongst them. Listen to
Thomas Jefferson: “I believe that banking institutions are more
dangerous to our liberties than standing armies.” Note that
Jefferson identified both banking institutions and standing armies as
being “dangerous to our liberties.” James Madison said, “A
standing army is one of the greatest mischief that can possibly
happen.” Elbridge Gerry (Vice President under James Madison) called
standing armies “the bane of liberty.”

For the most part, the sentiments of our founders ring hollow to
modern Americans who, ever since World War II, have glorified,
idolized, and practically even worshipped the standing US military.
But of course, with only isolated instances (which were almost always
completely covered up by the mainstream news media) of the abuse of
military power being committed against US citizens, the American
people, as a whole, have no point of reference directing them to the
sagacity of America’s founders on the subject. Indeed, who could
even imagine that US military forces would ever be used against the US
citizenry? After all, the media did a masterful job of covering up the
most flagrant example of US military forces being used against US
citizens when US military forces assisted federal law enforcement
agencies in slaughtering the Branch Davidians outside Waco, Texas, on
April 19, 1993. So, most Americans simply shut their eyes against that
“painful truth” and chose to ignore the fact that it even
happened.

Last Edited by MAGA !!! on 12/02/2011 09:05 PM
“Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity.” ~Seneca

PS:
I Stole this from another member.... ;)
AdHocBOHICA  (OP)

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12/02/2011 08:38 PM
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Re: No Wonder America’s Founders Distrusted Standing Armies and PLEASE Comment With OPEN and FAIR discussion !
Think.........Just think outside of the Box, and comment.
“Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity.” ~Seneca

PS:
I Stole this from another member.... ;)
AC156099
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12/02/2011 08:46 PM
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Re: No Wonder America’s Founders Distrusted Standing Armies and PLEASE Comment With OPEN and FAIR discussion !
For the most part, the sentiments of our founders ring hollow to
modern Americans who, ever since World War II, have glorified,
idolized, and practically even worshipped the standing US military.
 Quoting: AdHocBOHICA


I think the bromanced near-deification of our military is far more recent than WWII. It as a post-9/11 cretion.

Anyway, great post. Five starts for you.
devorahg

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12/02/2011 08:48 PM
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Re: No Wonder America’s Founders Distrusted Standing Armies and PLEASE Comment With OPEN and FAIR discussion !
I understand what your saying. What would you suggest instead? I am one of those who support our troops. Always have and I can't imagine ever stopping.
AdHocBOHICA  (OP)

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12/02/2011 08:51 PM
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Re: No Wonder America’s Founders Distrusted Standing Armies and PLEASE Comment With OPEN and FAIR discussion !
For the most part, the sentiments of our founders ring hollow to
modern Americans who, ever since World War II, have glorified,
idolized, and practically even worshipped the standing US military.
 Quoting: AdHocBOHICA


I think the bromanced near-deification of our military is far more recent than WWII. It as a post-9/11 cretion.

Anyway, great post. Five starts for you.
 Quoting: AC156099 156099


Well I must say thank's, however the thanks goes to those more diligent and smarter than myself. I am and have been concerned for nigh' 30 year's. Frustrating at the best.
“Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity.” ~Seneca

PS:
I Stole this from another member.... ;)
devorahg

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12/02/2011 08:52 PM
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Re: No Wonder America’s Founders Distrusted Standing Armies and PLEASE Comment With OPEN and FAIR discussion !
For the most part, the sentiments of our founders ring hollow to
modern Americans who, ever since World War II, have glorified,
idolized, and practically even worshipped the standing US military.
 Quoting: AdHocBOHICA


I think the bromanced near-deification of our military is far more recent than WWII. It as a post-9/11 cretion.

Anyway, great post. Five starts for you.
 Quoting: AC156099 156099


A post 9/11? Are you out of your mind? Only after Nam, and very few, considering, have said negative things about our troop/veterans. Near deification of the men and women, like my Dad and many others I have known. Hell to the yes.
Honest Joe
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12/02/2011 08:53 PM
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Re: No Wonder America’s Founders Distrusted Standing Armies and PLEASE Comment With OPEN and FAIR discussion !
In the words of Eisenhower the military industrial complex needs to be kept in check.

An army can be very useful, but can also be very destructive depending

and of course.. almost no need to say it.. but

MONEY is the root of all EVIL

MONEY + MILITARY = Very very very bad..
AdHocBOHICA  (OP)

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12/02/2011 08:55 PM
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Re: No Wonder America’s Founders Distrusted Standing Armies and PLEASE Comment With OPEN and FAIR discussion !
I understand what your saying. What would you suggest instead? I am one of those who support our troops. Always have and I can't imagine ever stopping.
 Quoting: devorahg


I really have no suggestion(s). I am prior service......I would say to evaluate your own heart and integrity WITH total honesty as far as the result. It is all I can offer. Be Up Right in all you endeavor.
“Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity.” ~Seneca

PS:
I Stole this from another member.... ;)
Anonymous Coward
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12/02/2011 08:56 PM
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Re: No Wonder America’s Founders Distrusted Standing Armies and PLEASE Comment With OPEN and FAIR discussion !
We wouldn't be having this discussion if it weren't for the heroic men and women of our military. And if it weren't for them you'd be speaking Arabic.
AdHocBOHICA  (OP)

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12/02/2011 08:58 PM
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Re: No Wonder America’s Founders Distrusted Standing Armies and PLEASE Comment With OPEN and FAIR discussion !
We wouldn't be having this discussion if it weren't for the heroic men and women of our military. And if it weren't for them you'd be speaking Arabic.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1437365


I agree much more than you can Imagine, Words cannot express.
“Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity.” ~Seneca

PS:
I Stole this from another member.... ;)
Anonymous Coward
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12/02/2011 08:58 PM
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Re: No Wonder America’s Founders Distrusted Standing Armies and PLEASE Comment With OPEN and FAIR discussion !
I think we are all going to be frustrated in searching for true justice in this world.
This world is run by men.
They are flawed and venal.
AdHocBOHICA  (OP)

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12/02/2011 08:59 PM
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Re: No Wonder America’s Founders Distrusted Standing Armies and PLEASE Comment With OPEN and FAIR discussion !
I think we are all going to be frustrated in searching for true justice in this world.
This world is run by men.
They are flawed and venal.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3579277


Balance..............in all things
“Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity.” ~Seneca

PS:
I Stole this from another member.... ;)
devorahg

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12/02/2011 08:59 PM
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Re: No Wonder America’s Founders Distrusted Standing Armies and PLEASE Comment With OPEN and FAIR discussion !
I understand what your saying. What would you suggest instead? I am one of those who support our troops. Always have and I can't imagine ever stopping.
 Quoting: devorahg


I really have no suggestion(s). I am prior service......I would say to evaluate your own heart and integrity WITH total honesty as far as the result. It is all I can offer. Be Up Right in all you endeavor.
 Quoting: AdHocBOHICA


Thank you for your kind reply. Prior service for me also. If you noticed I never said the military. I think of them as individual men and women. Naive of me I know but I prefer it that way for many reasons. #1 being my Dad who spent 36 months as a POW in Korea.
AdHocBOHICA  (OP)

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12/02/2011 09:02 PM
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Re: No Wonder America’s Founders Distrusted Standing Armies and PLEASE Comment With OPEN and FAIR discussion !
I understand what your saying. What would you suggest instead? I am one of those who support our troops. Always have and I can't imagine ever stopping.
 Quoting: devorahg


I really have no suggestion(s). I am prior service......I would say to evaluate your own heart and integrity WITH total honesty as far as the result. It is all I can offer. Be Up Right in all you endeavor.
 Quoting: AdHocBOHICA


Thank you for your kind reply. Prior service for me also. If you noticed I never said the military. I think of them as individual men and women. Naive of me I know but I prefer it that way for many reasons. #1 being my Dad who spent 36 months as a POW in Korea.
 Quoting: devorahg


My Father was an actual combat Veteran Sir. Thank you for your Service to our nation and People. Sincerely, Thank You.
“Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity.” ~Seneca

PS:
I Stole this from another member.... ;)
Anonymous Coward
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12/02/2011 09:03 PM
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Re: No Wonder America’s Founders Distrusted Standing Armies and PLEASE Comment With OPEN and FAIR discussion !
go back to regional defense forces (state militias) to do more of the jobs that the Federal Armed forces are doing. I bet there would be less foreign wars for "freedom" this way.
devorahg

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12/02/2011 09:07 PM
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Re: No Wonder America’s Founders Distrusted Standing Armies and PLEASE Comment With OPEN and FAIR discussion !
I understand what your saying. What would you suggest instead? I am one of those who support our troops. Always have and I can't imagine ever stopping.
 Quoting: devorahg


I really have no suggestion(s). I am prior service......I would say to evaluate your own heart and integrity WITH total honesty as far as the result. It is all I can offer. Be Up Right in all you endeavor.
 Quoting: AdHocBOHICA


Thank you for your kind reply. Prior service for me also. If you noticed I never said the military. I think of them as individual men and women. Naive of me I know but I prefer it that way for many reasons. #1 being my Dad who spent 36 months as a POW in Korea.
 Quoting: devorahg


My Father was an actual combat Veteran Sir. Thank you for your Service to our nation and People. Sincerely, Thank You.
 Quoting: AdHocBOHICA


Lol I'm a female.
AdHocBOHICA  (OP)

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12/02/2011 09:10 PM
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...


I really have no suggestion(s). I am prior service......I would say to evaluate your own heart and integrity WITH total honesty as far as the result. It is all I can offer. Be Up Right in all you endeavor.
 Quoting: AdHocBOHICA


Thank you for your kind reply. Prior service for me also. If you noticed I never said the military. I think of them as individual men and women. Naive of me I know but I prefer it that way for many reasons. #1 being my Dad who spent 36 months as a POW in Korea.
 Quoting: devorahg


My Father was an actual combat Veteran Sir. Thank you for your Service to our nation and People. Sincerely, Thank You.
 Quoting: AdHocBOHICA


Lol I'm a female.
 Quoting: devorahg


Uh Oh.........I stepped on something due to Pain I try to avoid stepping on, may bad as well as my apologies.
“Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity.” ~Seneca

PS:
I Stole this from another member.... ;)
Anonymous Coward
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12/02/2011 09:12 PM
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Re: No Wonder America’s Founders Distrusted Standing Armies and PLEASE Comment With OPEN and FAIR discussion !
I understand what your saying. What would you suggest instead? I am one of those who support our troops. Always have and I can't imagine ever stopping.
 Quoting: devorahg


See: Really only a Draft/Conscription is honest support.
Otherwise, the body politic (you and I) have no vested interest what happens.

Understand? They knew this all along. This is ancient history, at least as ancient as the Roman Legions.

Unless there is chance your kid can come home in a box, then you really aren't going to give shit, and this is what has happened. This is how and why the politics has become a circus all by itself. See, they aren't even running the show any longer. Hell no, we have moved in to the central bank and warfare model.

Isn't it curious how after the great turmoil of the Vietnam War on the homefront, the next real push was for an all volunteer army. The shills went out and sold it, the brainwashing of the volunteers that they are better than the citizens, and here too is real and serious danger.



When every member of the society (in this cas the US) has a child that could be put in harms way, then the public demands accountability. We don't have that. So saying we support our troops is empty and meaningless in all reality in my opinion.

When every member of the society (in this cas the US) has a child that could be put in harms way, then the public demands accountability. We don't have that.

we need to see that whenever a civilization begins to rely upon volunteers and mercenary armies it is the hall mark of collapse of that civilization.
AdHocBOHICA  (OP)

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12/02/2011 09:17 PM
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Re: No Wonder America’s Founders Distrusted Standing Armies and PLEASE Comment With OPEN and FAIR discussion !
I understand what your saying. What would you suggest instead? I am one of those who support our troops. Always have and I can't imagine ever stopping.
 Quoting: devorahg


See: Really only a Draft/Conscription is honest support.
Otherwise, the body politic (you and I) have no vested interest what happens.

Understand? They knew this all along. This is ancient history, at least as ancient as the Roman Legions.

Unless there is chance your kid can come home in a box, then you really aren't going to give shit, and this is what has happened. This is how and why the politics has become a circus all by itself. See, they aren't even running the show any longer. Hell no, we have moved in to the central bank and warfare model.

Isn't it curious how after the great turmoil of the Vietnam War on the homefront, the next real push was for an all volunteer army. The shills went out and sold it, the brainwashing of the volunteers that they are better than the citizens, and here too is real and serious danger.



When every member of the society (in this cas the US) has a child that could be put in harms way, then the public demands accountability. We don't have that. So saying we support our troops is empty and meaningless in all reality in my opinion.

When every member of the society (in this cas the US) has a child that could be put in harms way, then the public demands accountability. We don't have that.

we need to see that whenever a civilization begins to rely upon volunteers and mercenary armies it is the hall mark of collapse of that civilization.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4594667


And it get's even more Macabre the deeper we get. I understand but this more than most can even chew muc less digest......This can be toxic.
“Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity.” ~Seneca

PS:
I Stole this from another member.... ;)
anon 121214
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12/02/2011 09:20 PM
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Re: No Wonder America’s Founders Distrusted Standing Armies and PLEASE Comment With OPEN and FAIR discussion !
I understand what your saying. What would you suggest instead? I am one of those who support our troops. Always have and I can't imagine ever stopping.
 Quoting: devorahg



stop using our young men and women to serve the MIC. Are you really that dumb to what is going on. Gee no wonder we are in the mess we are in. bankers taking over, the people forced to pay, and now the US declared a battlefield which is saying we are at war with us
Anonymous Coward
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12/02/2011 09:20 PM
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Re: No Wonder America’s Founders Distrusted Standing Armies and PLEASE Comment With OPEN and FAIR discussion !
Think.........Just think outside of the Box, and comment.
 Quoting: AdHocBOHICA


A citizen militia modeled on teh Swiss system is much closer to what the founders could envision than this banker Hessian armed military. How's that?
AdHocBOHICA  (OP)

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12/02/2011 09:22 PM
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Re: No Wonder America’s Founders Distrusted Standing Armies and PLEASE Comment With OPEN and FAIR discussion !
Think.........Just think outside of the Box, and comment.
 Quoting: AdHocBOHICA


A citizen militia modeled on teh Swiss system is much closer to what the founders could envision than this banker Hessian armed military. How's that?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 945560


Spot ON! and I am very familiar with the model you speak.

clappa
“Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity.” ~Seneca

PS:
I Stole this from another member.... ;)
AdHocBOHICA  (OP)

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12/02/2011 09:24 PM
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Re: No Wonder America’s Founders Distrusted Standing Armies and PLEASE Comment With OPEN and FAIR discussion !
Think.........Just think outside of the Box, and comment.
 Quoting: AdHocBOHICA


A citizen militia modeled on teh Swiss system is much closer to what the founders could envision than this banker Hessian armed military. How's that?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 945560


Spot ON! and I am very familiar with the model you speak.

clappa
 Quoting: AdHocBOHICA


There is a problem......Personal Responsibility must be addressed.
“Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity.” ~Seneca

PS:
I Stole this from another member.... ;)
Anonymous Coward
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12/02/2011 09:28 PM
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Re: No Wonder America’s Founders Distrusted Standing Armies and PLEASE Comment With OPEN and FAIR discussion !
Think.........Just think outside of the Box, and comment.
 Quoting: AdHocBOHICA


A citizen militia modeled on teh Swiss system is much closer to what the founders could envision than this banker Hessian armed military. How's that?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 945560


Spot ON! and I am very familiar with the model you speak.

clappa
 Quoting: AdHocBOHICA


Yes, this is the intent of the thinking behind the foundations of the Republic.

See: It is essentially treason to advocate any other system such as an "All" volunteer army because it removes the sword from the hands of the people.

We need only return to the original prestine document to see the wisdom.
Anonymous Coward
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12/02/2011 09:29 PM
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Re: No Wonder America’s Founders Distrusted Standing Armies and PLEASE Comment With OPEN and FAIR discussion !
We wouldn't be having this discussion if it weren't for the heroic men and women of our military. And if it weren't for them you'd be speaking Arabic.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1437365


Really? How would the Arabs get here? In their paddle boats? No country could ever take the U.S. from the outside.. that's why we are being destroyed from the inside..
Anonymous Coward
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12/02/2011 09:29 PM
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Re: No Wonder America’s Founders Distrusted Standing Armies and PLEASE Comment With OPEN and FAIR discussion !
Think.........Just think outside of the Box, and comment.
 Quoting: AdHocBOHICA


A citizen militia modeled on teh Swiss system is much closer to what the founders could envision than this banker Hessian armed military. How's that?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 945560


Spot ON! and I am very familiar with the model you speak.

clappa
 Quoting: AdHocBOHICA



AdHocBOHICA  (OP)

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12/02/2011 09:32 PM
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Re: No Wonder America’s Founders Distrusted Standing Armies and PLEASE Comment With OPEN and FAIR discussion !
Think.........Just think outside of the Box, and comment.
 Quoting: AdHocBOHICA


A citizen militia modeled on teh Swiss system is much closer to what the founders could envision than this banker Hessian armed military. How's that?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 945560


Spot ON! and I am very familiar with the model you speak.

clappa
 Quoting: AdHocBOHICA




 Quoting: SnaFuBar


THIS^^^^^^^^^^^ I have seen this and MORE, think people......THINK!
“Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity.” ~Seneca

PS:
I Stole this from another member.... ;)
Borday

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12/02/2011 09:33 PM
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Re: No Wonder America’s Founders Distrusted Standing Armies and PLEASE Comment With OPEN and FAIR discussion !
The founders anticipated a time of peace where the army would not have to be large. we seem to be on a war footing since WWII.
In today's day and age I wouldn't see it as unreasonable that everyone should have to do 2 years in the guard.
men ready and trained, and a small force to maintain equipment.
Anonymous Coward
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12/02/2011 09:34 PM
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Re: No Wonder America’s Founders Distrusted Standing Armies and PLEASE Comment With OPEN and FAIR discussion !
As a member of the military I want to make a few comments that I have noticed about the service. Firstly as a Jeffersonian Republican I have found far far far more people in the military of a like mindset than people in the general populace. Granted I believe that there are a lot of your general neo-con America fuck yeah types and a smattering of liberals but it has been my privilege to have served with many patriotic Americans who believe in our republic and actually remember we are a republic and not a democracy.

You are right that a standing army is a danger especially because of its step up with a chain of command its hard to act individually in the defense of liberty if the high command isnt on board. But I wont comment on the possible actions of our military in a constitutional crisis I will just comment that the caliber of people who support the constitution over blind obedience is quite high within our armed forces.
Anonymous Coward
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12/02/2011 09:34 PM
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Re: No Wonder America’s Founders Distrusted Standing Armies and PLEASE Comment With OPEN and FAIR discussion !
We wouldn't be having this discussion if it weren't for the heroic men and women of our military. And if it weren't for them you'd be speaking Arabic.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1437365


Really? How would the Arabs get here? In their paddle boats? No country could ever take the U.S. from the outside.. that's why we are being destroyed from the inside..
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1371185


No, you would be speaking German or Japanese. Also defeated by our Conscripted soldiers as much as by our volunteer soldiers.

I do not understand you being offended at all. Again, revist the comments. It is essential that for a nation to remain a republic, it must have a citizen army. Not a volunteer army supplemented with mercenary troops like the British used against us in the Revolutionary War.
AdHocBOHICA  (OP)

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12/02/2011 09:38 PM
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Re: No Wonder America’s Founders Distrusted Standing Armies and PLEASE Comment With OPEN and FAIR discussion !
The founders anticipated a time of peace where the army would not have to be large. we seem to be on a war footing since WWII.
In today's day and age I wouldn't see it as unreasonable that everyone should have to do 2 years in the guard.
men ready and trained, and a small force to maintain equipment.
 Quoting: Borday


No argument from my quarter, the lack of free thinking based upon critical thinking is absolutely working against freedom and personal liberty...........not necessarily in that order.
“Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity.” ~Seneca

PS:
I Stole this from another member.... ;)





GLP