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For the vegetarians/vegans/animal lovers etc.

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 6937215
United States
12/11/2011 10:57 AM
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Re: For the vegetarians/vegans/animal lovers etc.
OP, I have struggled with this topic for years. I am an animal lover and hate to see them suffer, but I do not do physically well when I eat a vegetarian diet. I was a vegetarian for a while, and it just did not work for me. This article I read, The Naive Vegetarian, did a lot to get me thinking logically about the debate instead of only using my emotions.

[link to www.second-opinions.co.uk]

The Weston A. Price Foundation also has loads of information on why vegetarianism is not what it's cracked up to be.

[link to www.westonaprice.org]

And don't get me started on PETA and other "animal rights" organizations and the pure evil that they practice. It's an abomination.

I think that many vegetarians are brainwashed, and I know because I was one. Their hearts are in the right place, but they are not using their minds. These animal rights groups play on people's emotions, but keep much of the truth hidden. Something must die in order for you to live. That is the law of this planet. And if you are a vegetarian who eats dairy, then you are certainly contributing to the deaths and suffering of dairy cows and their calves. What people should do is concentrate on making the lives of food animals better by not buying factory meat or dairy products and maybe eating LESS meat. When you buy for convenience and price, that contributes to the torture and horror of the mainstream meat industry. Support your local, humane farmers.
 Quoting: spacegoat


Great post!! That's where I am at. I first started by boycotting commercialized meat. When I eat at a restaurant, I will try not to get any meat at all. But everybody makes good points, that as long as we are on this earth, we are contributing to the mistreatment of domesticated animals.
 Quoting: Shamar


Weston A Price foundation is funded by big meat corporations. i'm a big fan of Dr. Price's work but the org has taken the same route as every other sellout charity. Just sayin'
Crankgorilla

User ID: 6933683
Australia
12/11/2011 10:57 AM
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Re: For the vegetarians/vegans/animal lovers etc.
I read this article recently. You'll have to do a bit of reading, but this guy is onto something. If your interested in the whole "what we eat" scenario, it is well worth browsing this this guys work.

Link - [link to 55theses.org]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 6929592
Italy
12/11/2011 10:59 AM
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Re: For the vegetarians/vegans/animal lovers etc.
CULTURED MEAT

[link to www.whyculturedmeat.org]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 5193361
United States
12/11/2011 11:02 AM
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Re: For the vegetarians/vegans/animal lovers etc.
Op why do you care what people eat? Is this what you spend your time thinking about? Don't you have something better to do? Read a book? Create something of worth etc?

In 10 years most of our protein will be lab grown genetically. The REAL stuff will be so expensive that only the rich will be able to afford it.

If people choose to not eat meat, to what consequence is it to you?

Grow up op.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1357114
United States
12/11/2011 11:13 AM
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Re: For the vegetarians/vegans/animal lovers etc.
My co-worker eats 70% meat 30% vegetables EVERYDAY, my diet is the opposite,who is the dumbfuck here?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1357114


neither
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6934730


Have you ever watched "Supersize me"?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 6934730
United States
12/11/2011 11:20 AM
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Re: For the vegetarians/vegans/animal lovers etc.
Op why do you care what people eat? Is this what you spend your time thinking about? Don't you have something better to do? Read a book? Create something of worth etc?

In 10 years most of our protein will be lab grown genetically. The REAL stuff will be so expensive that only the rich will be able to afford it.

If people choose to not eat meat, to what consequence is it to you?

Grow up op.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5193361


i dont think OP does care what anyone eats but and i feel the same he is sick and tired of the vegan nonsense spewed forth to try and convince us that eating meat is bad.

the whole vegan publicity campaigne is all lies, half truthes,fear mongering and other mind numbing BS

whenever us omnivores take the time to expplain the real state of the world and food production to them they mostly just fade away.

a vegan world would be a world without animals for example go to a soy field and count the animals happily grazing through it.i can walk out my door and look out at hundreds of forms of animal protein eating and playing etc on country which needs no fertaliser,fuel or extra water to farm and in this country is a myriad of other small animals
and biodiversity of plants unlike the vegans "soy field" which must be kept close to sterile of other forms of life
to be economical to harvest.

this above is the center of the vegan hypocrasi because most vegans do not realise what it actually costs both in animal life and resources to produce that tofu.
a happy vegan
User ID: 1436885
United States
12/11/2011 11:25 AM
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Re: For the vegetarians/vegans/animal lovers etc.
Just so you guys know, as long as you are alive and kicking, you are harming animals.

You build a house, you contribute to the death of some animals. 2 millions acres of land is lost each year in the US due to urbanization.

You drive a car, you contribute to the death of some animals (roads, pollution etc).

You eat salads (no meats), you contribute to the death of some animals (perhaps even more so than if you ate meat).

You wear cotton, you contribute to the death of a shit load of animals. The cattle that live next to a cotton farm are usually too infected with pesticide to be sold for human consumption. Cotton fields are deserts.

You cannot escape it. All we can do is learn to live with animals and respect them for what they are.

So please do not go mouthing off because you think you are high and mighty, because you are not.
 Quoting: Scubaseven2


ummmmm i think im going to worry about the ones that lose their lives so people can eat burgers, bacon, and mc. nuggets.

heres one for ya, porky.--------->

[link to yourlife.usatoday.com]

SALADS contribute to the death of animals??? ROFOLOLOL
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 6934730
United States
12/11/2011 11:26 AM
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Re: For the vegetarians/vegans/animal lovers etc.
My co-worker eats 70% meat 30% vegetables EVERYDAY, my diet is the opposite,who is the dumbfuck here?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1357114


neither
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6934730


Have you ever watched "Supersize me"?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1357114


no sorry i havnt my comment was just from personal diet
smetimes im a 70/30 other times im a 30/70 depends a lot on the time of year and what is available and for what cost
but i have noticed little difference in how i feel on either of those diets as long as i have enough quantity and variety to keep up the energy and viamins.

Mcdonalds food does not count much in my diet
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1155040
United States
12/11/2011 11:32 AM
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Re: For the vegetarians/vegans/animal lovers etc.
Doing some mining?

Here's a nugget

Your narrowminded views make this thread wreak of troll shit

It's a good thing online personas are artificial and fleeting, otherwise you would've made an ass of yourself with this one

feedtroll
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 6934730
United States
12/11/2011 11:34 AM
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Re: For the vegetarians/vegans/animal lovers etc.
The simple fact is a omnivorous diet is a sustainable diet
a vegan diet is not.

history prior to oil is full of omnivorous civilisations
yet not a single vegan one.

if it wasnt for modern chemicals, farming and shipping i doubt very much whether a vegan could even grow enough food
to survive even if he or she ued a horse to plow the fields.
artMan

User ID: 5051820
Sweden
12/11/2011 11:40 AM

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Re: For the vegetarians/vegans/animal lovers etc.
a vegan world would be a world without animals for example go to a soy field and count the animals happily grazing through it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6934730


The reason that the soy field is there, is to feed the animals that the meat-eaters eat.
A vegan world would be a world with large rainforests, real nature and wild animals.
You would only need a fraction of the fields to supply the humans with vege-food.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 6934730
United States
12/11/2011 11:51 AM
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Re: For the vegetarians/vegans/animal lovers etc.
a vegan world would be a world without animals for example go to a soy field and count the animals happily grazing through it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6934730


The reason that the soy field is there, is to feed the animals that the meat-eaters eat.
A vegan world would be a world with large rainforests, real nature and wild animals.
You would only need a fraction of the fields to supply the humans with vege-food.
 Quoting: artMan


See this is a prime example of the bs that the vegans will start with.

so let me say this again i agree with you when it comes to
meat factories like commercial piggeries feed lots etc
and ill stand next to you holding signs etc telling everyone how bad they are.

but being an omnivore does not mean i support these things
and being a bit of a farmer as well i can tell you that animals have a part in both our lives and our diet.

ok your perfect vegan world sounds real nice almot like what the world was like for many people before farming
and industry. how many peoples do you know of that were
vegan in thi early paradise on earth.

short answer NONE
artMan

User ID: 5051820
Sweden
12/11/2011 11:55 AM

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Re: For the vegetarians/vegans/animal lovers etc.
a vegan world would be a world without animals for example go to a soy field and count the animals happily grazing through it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6934730


The reason that the soy field is there, is to feed the animals that the meat-eaters eat.
A vegan world would be a world with large rainforests, real nature and wild animals.
You would only need a fraction of the fields to supply the humans with vege-food.
 Quoting: artMan


See this is a prime example of the bs that the vegans will start with.

so let me say this again i agree with you when it comes to
meat factories like commercial piggeries feed lots etc
and ill stand next to you holding signs etc telling everyone how bad they are.

but being an omnivore does not mean i support these things
and being a bit of a farmer as well i can tell you that animals have a part in both our lives and our diet.

ok your perfect vegan world sounds real nice almot like what the world was like for many people before farming
and industry. how many peoples do you know of that were
vegan in thi early paradise on earth.

short answer NONE
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6934730


If you state that something is BS, then you have to provide an argument.. not just agree..

Its still a fact that it would be needed just a fraction of the fields compared to today.. there would be more forests and wild animals.
You were saying ?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 6934730
United States
12/11/2011 11:59 AM
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Re: For the vegetarians/vegans/animal lovers etc.
a vegan world would be a world without animals for example go to a soy field and count the animals happily grazing through it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6934730


The reason that the soy field is there, is to feed the animals that the meat-eaters eat.
A vegan world would be a world with large rainforests, real nature and wild animals.
You would only need a fraction of the fields to supply the humans with vege-food.
 Quoting: artMan


your understanding of the energy pyramid is flawed and a example of vegan half truthes

because it ignores the positive benefits of animals to
a ecosystem.
artMan

User ID: 5051820
Sweden
12/11/2011 12:01 PM

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Re: For the vegetarians/vegans/animal lovers etc.
a vegan world would be a world without animals for example go to a soy field and count the animals happily grazing through it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6934730


The reason that the soy field is there, is to feed the animals that the meat-eaters eat.
A vegan world would be a world with large rainforests, real nature and wild animals.
You would only need a fraction of the fields to supply the humans with vege-food.
 Quoting: artMan


your understanding of the energy pyramid is flawed and a example of vegan half truthes

because it ignores the positive benefits of animals to
a ecosystem.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6934730


So what is that is so great with the animal keeping that its worth burning down the rainforests and produce a lot of soy ?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 6934730
United States
12/11/2011 12:02 PM
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Re: For the vegetarians/vegans/animal lovers etc.
a vegan world would be a world without animals for example go to a soy field and count the animals happily grazing through it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6934730


The reason that the soy field is there, is to feed the animals that the meat-eaters eat.
A vegan world would be a world with large rainforests, real nature and wild animals.
You would only need a fraction of the fields to supply the humans with vege-food.
 Quoting: artMan


your understanding of the energy pyramid is flawed and a example of vegan half truthes

because it ignores the positive benefits of animals to
a ecosystem.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6934730


animals are not just a food source but a fertaliser supply,
harveters,they can supply work,they can process food we can not as humans(eat grass).
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 6934730
United States
12/11/2011 12:04 PM
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Re: For the vegetarians/vegans/animal lovers etc.
a vegan world would be a world without animals for example go to a soy field and count the animals happily grazing through it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6934730


The reason that the soy field is there, is to feed the animals that the meat-eaters eat.
A vegan world would be a world with large rainforests, real nature and wild animals.
You would only need a fraction of the fields to supply the humans with vege-food.
 Quoting: artMan


your understanding of the energy pyramid is flawed and a example of vegan half truthes

because it ignores the positive benefits of animals to
a ecosystem.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6934730


So what is that is so great with the animal keeping that its worth burning down the rainforests and produce a lot of soy ?
 Quoting: artMan


nothing keep your forests let the animals harvest them for us then we eat the animals simple.
Anonymous Coward
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12/11/2011 12:09 PM
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Re: For the vegetarians/vegans/animal lovers etc.
you know whats going to finish this debate for us is when energy prices get even higher than what they are and its not worth economically shipping food to feedlots.

because energy prices will also drive up the cost of the vegans diet.

like i said an omnivorous diet is sustainable and could be supplied with less dependence on oil.
artMan

User ID: 5051820
Sweden
12/11/2011 12:17 PM

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Re: For the vegetarians/vegans/animal lovers etc.
a vegan world would be a world without animals for example go to a soy field and count the animals happily grazing through it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6934730


The reason that the soy field is there, is to feed the animals that the meat-eaters eat.
A vegan world would be a world with large rainforests, real nature and wild animals.
You would only need a fraction of the fields to supply the humans with vege-food.
 Quoting: artMan


your understanding of the energy pyramid is flawed and a example of vegan half truthes

because it ignores the positive benefits of animals to
a ecosystem.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6934730


animals are not just a food source but a fertaliser supply,
harveters,they can supply work,they can process food we can not as humans(eat grass).
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6934730


1. You would only need a fraction of the fertilizer because there wouldn't be as many fields. .. so.. unecessary
2. Harvesters... I dont see your point how it helps us get fed.
3. Supply work.. Take a look around you.. They are standing in cages.
4. They produce milk that is a major cause of diabetes at the moment
artMan

User ID: 5051820
Sweden
12/11/2011 12:19 PM

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Re: For the vegetarians/vegans/animal lovers etc.
you know whats going to finish this debate for us is when energy prices get even higher than what they are and its not worth economically shipping food to feedlots.

because energy prices will also drive up the cost of the vegans diet.

like i said an omnivorous diet is sustainable and could be supplied with less dependence on oil.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6934730


You know that it takes 10 times the energy to produce 1 ounce of meat protein compared to 1 ounce of vege-protein ?

Guess what happens when energy price goes up ?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 6934730
United States
12/11/2011 12:30 PM
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Re: For the vegetarians/vegans/animal lovers etc.
you know whats going to finish this debate for us is when energy prices get even higher than what they are and its not worth economically shipping food to feedlots.

because energy prices will also drive up the cost of the vegans diet.

like i said an omnivorous diet is sustainable and could be supplied with less dependence on oil.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6934730


You know that it takes 10 times the energy to produce 1 ounce of meat protein compared to 1 ounce of vege-protein ?

Guess what happens when energy price goes up ?

 Quoting: artMan


yes i know this its often quoted by the vegans and is mostly
correct.

but it ignores several things

firstly that animals can be raised on land which uses no
extra water and little or no oil and is kept in a natural state.so while that statement is basically true (about energy needs)it ignores the free energy in the form of
sunshine,rain and animal droppings returning to the soil.

if the energy price goes high enough it will drive the cost
of both vegan and meat products high yes. but farms that free range rather than feedlot will do very well in fact that is happening right now.
Anonymous Coward
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United States
12/11/2011 12:39 PM
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Re: For the vegetarians/vegans/animal lovers etc.
Besides the eating, we are all omnivorous after all, i always thought that, having an animal in your house as a pet, no matter what kind of animal cat, dog, bird in a cage or fish in a tank, is bad for them. We never asked them (how can we ask them after all), if they want to be locked in an apartment or a house etc just for our entertainment.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6925857


Yeah, I call bullshit on that one.

I have accidently left the side gate open on our yard multiple times, only to find my dog happily in the front yard watching pedestrians walk by. If she wanted to run away she could have multiple times. She chooses to stay.
 Quoting: Doomish


If a domesticated animal was never domesticated than it would not be sitting in your front yard waiting to love you. If you hold a human being long enough in fear it will not leave either if given the chance. There is a term for it but it slips my mind at the moment. Im not arguing the fact because I too have a dog that would most likely die without human intervention because it is domesticated and its survival instincts are to go to humans to eat and find shelter instead of hunting like a wolf.
Anonymous Coward
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United States
12/11/2011 12:45 PM
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Re: For the vegetarians/vegans/animal lovers etc.
imagine some wild land today most likely a hunter could walk into it and bag enough game to feed his family for a week or month maybee even longer


the same piece of land while it has huge plant resources
a peron on a vegan diet may have difficulty feeding himself
for a day except under certain rare yearly conditions.

the reason for this are that we can not eat all the plant food that is available our digetion is not designed for it
even if it is non poisonous.much of the plant food that we could harvest is very spread out and generally smaller than
what we are used to with modern agriculture.this is why we adopted agriculture to try and consolidate these plant food
reources and try to have them mature at the same time so that harvest is more energy efficient.
MMMkay_Ultra

User ID: 6289134
United States
12/11/2011 01:10 PM
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Re: For the vegetarians/vegans/animal lovers etc.
Just so you guys know, as long as you are alive and kicking, you are harming animals.

You build a house, you contribute to the death of some animals. 2 millions acres of land is lost each year in the US due to urbanization.

You drive a car, you contribute to the death of some animals (roads, pollution etc).

You eat salads (no meats), you contribute to the death of some animals (perhaps even more so than if you ate meat).

You wear cotton, you contribute to the death of a shit load of animals. The cattle that live next to a cotton farm are usually too infected with pesticide to be sold for human consumption. Cotton fields are deserts.

You cannot escape it. All we can do is learn to live with animals and respect them for what they are.

So please do not go mouthing off because you think you are high and mighty, because you are not.
 Quoting: Scubaseven2


OP, did it ever occur to you that most of us (vegetarians/vegans) are not "high and mighty". For the most part, we are only trying to do the best we can in a society governed by industry and driven by wealth. If more people would open their eyes and see the truth about the world we live in, more of us would become vegetarian/vegan, and the world could truly change. Instead, assholes like you continue to justify the validity of our social, cultural, and industrial impact. Now, who sounds "high and mighty"?

stfu
"If the words 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on."
- Terence McKenna
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 6934730
United States
12/11/2011 01:19 PM
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Re: For the vegetarians/vegans/animal lovers etc.
Just so you guys know, as long as you are alive and kicking, you are harming animals.

You build a house, you contribute to the death of some animals. 2 millions acres of land is lost each year in the US due to urbanization.

You drive a car, you contribute to the death of some animals (roads, pollution etc).

You eat salads (no meats), you contribute to the death of some animals (perhaps even more so than if you ate meat).

You wear cotton, you contribute to the death of a shit load of animals. The cattle that live next to a cotton farm are usually too infected with pesticide to be sold for human consumption. Cotton fields are deserts.

You cannot escape it. All we can do is learn to live with animals and respect them for what they are.

So please do not go mouthing off because you think you are high and mighty, because you are not.
 Quoting: Scubaseven2


OP, did it ever occur to you that most of us (vegetarians/vegans) are not "high and mighty". For the most part, we are only trying to do the best we can in a society governed by industry and driven by wealth. If more people would open their eyes and see the truth about the world we live in, more of us would become vegetarian/vegan, and the world could truly change. Instead, assholes like you continue to justify the validity of our social, cultural, and industrial impact. Now, who sounds "high and mighty"?

stfu
 Quoting: MMMkay_Ultra


LOL without industry and wealth you could not even be a vegan but i could still be a omnivore.

sorry but you are the one who has been misled by society and culture.

maybee you should wake up or at the very least try providing for all your needs without industry,society and wealth.
Sir Phydeau

User ID: 5465427
United States
12/11/2011 01:23 PM
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Re: For the vegetarians/vegans/animal lovers etc.
well hey there!!!hi
 Quoting: Shamar


Heya, old friend. How's shakes?
"When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?" — John M. Keynes
"The way to see by [blind] faith is to shut the eye of reason." - Benjamin Franklin
The Self Defining Hebrew System: [link to www.thechronicleproject.org]
Real men keep Torah.
Knighted into the Army of Yahuwah on 10-9-10.

Avinu shebashamayim, yitkadesh shimkha. Tavo malkhutekha ye'aseh r'tzonekha ba'aretz ka'asher na'asah vashamayimTen-lanu haiyom lechem chukeinu. u'selach-lanu et-ashmateinu ka'asher solechim anachnu la'asher ashmu lanu. Ve'al-tevieinu lidei massah, ki im-hatsileinu min-hara. Ki lekha ha-mamlakha vehagevurah veha-tiferet l'olemei olamim. Amen.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 2134890
Sweden
12/11/2011 01:23 PM
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Re: For the vegetarians/vegans/animal lovers etc.
it's about reducing suffering where you can
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1499591
Netherlands
12/11/2011 01:25 PM
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Re: For the vegetarians/vegans/animal lovers etc.
Op is not so clever, you really think most vegetarians are tree huggers?

We just dont want to eat (dead) animals of part of animals or mixed dead parts of animals (!)...

I do not care about the bio industry of half dead chickens in a factory...

Eating meat feels dirty and dead...no matter with how many pepper and salt you want to fool your mouth...still dead animals... nothing more...

But just relax..

By reading your topic you would never know what this feeling is like....so enjoy ur steak!
MMMkay_Ultra

User ID: 6289134
United States
12/11/2011 01:28 PM
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Re: For the vegetarians/vegans/animal lovers etc.
Just so you guys know, as long as you are alive and kicking, you are harming animals.

You build a house, you contribute to the death of some animals. 2 millions acres of land is lost each year in the US due to urbanization.

You drive a car, you contribute to the death of some animals (roads, pollution etc).

You eat salads (no meats), you contribute to the death of some animals (perhaps even more so than if you ate meat).

You wear cotton, you contribute to the death of a shit load of animals. The cattle that live next to a cotton farm are usually too infected with pesticide to be sold for human consumption. Cotton fields are deserts.

You cannot escape it. All we can do is learn to live with animals and respect them for what they are.

So please do not go mouthing off because you think you are high and mighty, because you are not.
 Quoting: Scubaseven2


OP, did it ever occur to you that most of us (vegetarians/vegans) are not "high and mighty". For the most part, we are only trying to do the best we can in a society governed by industry and driven by wealth. If more people would open their eyes and see the truth about the world we live in, more of us would become vegetarian/vegan, and the world could truly change. Instead, assholes like you continue to justify the validity of our social, cultural, and industrial impact. Now, who sounds "high and mighty"?

stfu
 Quoting: MMMkay_Ultra


LOL without industry and wealth you could not even be a vegan but i could still be a omnivore.

sorry but you are the one who has been misled by society and culture.

maybee you should wake up or at the very least try providing for all your needs without industry,society and wealth.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6934730





What does industry and wealth have to do with being vegan? Absolutely nothing. This is the problem with most of the people on this planet; they have completely bought into the culture that the media has been selling. I refuse to argue with the unconscious.

Last Edited by MMMkay_Ultra on 12/11/2011 01:30 PM
"If the words 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on."
- Terence McKenna
MMMkay_Ultra

User ID: 6289134
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12/11/2011 01:29 PM
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Re: For the vegetarians/vegans/animal lovers etc.
it's about reducing suffering where you can
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2134890


Finally, signs of intelligence.
"If the words 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on."
- Terence McKenna

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