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People have fundamentally different views of what God is.

 
Anonymous Coward
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12/13/2011 07:10 PM
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Re: People have fundamentally different views of what God is.
God spelled backwards is dog.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: People have fundamentally different views of what God is.
God spelled backwards is dog.
Sungaze_At_Dawn

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12/13/2011 07:11 PM

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Re: People have fundamentally different views of what God is.
Universe is just a holorphic interactive test tube school. We're in a system of infinite progression in infinity. God, is the Spirit of Peace and Love uniting souls/intellects, who are infinite in numbers and varieties.

And we need to grow our lights in infinity, our souls, grow our love and compassion.

God is a word I use to mean, the Highest Love and Goodness in existence, whether that there can even be One, and not have that One in infinity be finite. The Love between everyone, but Infinite Love and Goodness, Infinite Good Family Above.

We have a Spiritual Father/Mother, Prime Creator of this Universe, but in Infinity, Prime Creator would always discover, He/She was but the Child of another Creation.

Last Edited by Sungaze_At_Dawn on 12/13/2011 07:12 PM
Anonymous Coward
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Re: People have fundamentally different views of what God is.
Why do so many people think of God as male?
Sungaze_At_Dawn

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12/13/2011 07:16 PM

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Re: People have fundamentally different views of what God is.
Why do so many people think of God as male?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 252372


The Universe is Womb/Matrix and that = Mother. Divine Mother. However. Mother's energy is equality/unity/love. Mother = Mother/Father.

The way back home is the true hexagram. The two interlocked triangles. Father's is the pyramid, and Mother's the inverted pyramid or Challis, Holy Grail. It takes wedding the highest principals of male and female energy. Ie. not strictiness, smiting, judgments and creating laws. The highest male energy is: Freedom/Creation/Invention, also all the makes a really good caring father, ie. a good role model, humility, humor, a good teacher of children.

And wedding that to the Mother's energy: Equality/Love/Unity;Compassion/Forgiveness.

So basically it takes equal doses of equality and freedom, both smashed terribly here.
Beam Me The Fuck Up!

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12/13/2011 07:16 PM
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Re: People have fundamentally different views of what God is.
GOD = Evil Extraterrestrial Deceiving Cunt who traps souls for a living.
Destination~Earth
Sungaze_At_Dawn

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12/13/2011 07:31 PM

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Re: People have fundamentally different views of what God is.
Picture Infinity, like Infinite Fractals, infinite person/place/thing, no limits. Place a boundary and its finite. There is no time, thats a measurement, and no matter where you plunk a dot down to measure, its the same = endless volume in all directions. Move the dot, same thing. No Time is possible. Its only a program and a perception.

Then picture, infinite stacks of paper like frequency ranges, dense/gravity to high, unity, Love. And grades of spirits. Lights that grow to become infinte superstars.

This is a hard testing ground. But everyone wanted to come very much, to find out what they're made of and what they need to improve too.

Its an honor to be here, to love your family, and for the chance to grow your love and consciousness/soul to the next level.

See through the traps. Because people can regress for a time too, and those who already harmed others, and shrunk consciousness, are working hard for everyone to regress and stay under their thumbs. The old empire/legion/shadow side.

Though all souls one day, make U-Turns, harming others harms ourselves and can be a very long way home.

Last Edited by Sungaze_At_Dawn on 12/13/2011 07:33 PM
Prisoner of Technology

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12/13/2011 07:35 PM

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Re: People have fundamentally different views of what God is.
Rodinlink
0112358437189887641562819112358437189887641562819...
No one has ever seen a perfect circle, nor a perfectly straight line, yet everyone knows what a circle and a straight line are.
Perceived circles or lines are not exactly circular or straight, and true circles and lines could never be detected since by definition they are sets of infinitely small points.
Frater

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12/13/2011 08:53 PM

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Re: People have fundamentally different views of what God is.
How can God not be everything? If it's not...then it's an incomplete or "lesser" god.
We ALL agree on that IF u believe in god.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1547813


God is everything plus ...
 Quoting: Girl Genius


Yes, God is everthing plus.

God is really REALLY BIG and really really small.

Smells great and stinks.

Light and darkness.

Warm and Cold.

Male and Female.

And so much more than any of us can begin to comprehend.

God can be a duality and a seeming contradiction.

Can be in two or ten or a million places at once.

Can be kind and not so in the same heartbeat.

Can be anything, any combo of things and contradiction is a as much the rule as harmony.

You have to get this, it's a concept I have trouble explaining in words.

God IS and God is far beyond us and doesn't ever have to make sense, writes the rules and breaks them.

God is SO AWESOME :)

Best Wishes
LVX!
Anonymous Coward
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12/13/2011 08:57 PM
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Re: People have fundamentally different views of what God is.
Why do so many people think of God as male?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 252372


That is how he typically manifests when interfacing with us humans. However, he can manifest in any form, even formlessness.

Why would he manifest in a finite form, you might ask? Because you can't wrap your arms around infinity.
beebee

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12/13/2011 09:53 PM
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Re: People have fundamentally different views of what God is.
Much of the misunderstandings and arguments people have about religion and faith has to do with their fundamental understanding of what God is for them. Until these differences are understood, very little common ground in our beliefs can be agreed upon.

For me God is a "Universal Consciousness", the combined total of all spiritual existence in this universe. In my view, this great Universal Consciousness is not a being that gets involved in our daily lives or our spiritual growth. We each control our own lives through our own individual inner spiritual self. WE decide what experiences we need next. WE decide what our life will be like in this and every other incarnation. As I have said before in other threads, we are each a drop of life in the ocean of God. An equal and perfect part of God. He is not a father to us, but a total of our higher selves and all life around us. We are like a cell in the body of God. We are each individual beings, but part of the whole we call God. He is no more involved in our daily lives than our body is involved in the growth of an individual cell in our physical body. We are a personal and individual part of the whole. That whole is God. Not our Father, but our whole.

These basic differences in understanding you and I have make all of our other views of life very different. With each of us seeing God so differently, how can we agree on other aspects of our reality?

Peace,
Fibonacci
 Quoting: 1123581321


I agree with everything you wrote EXCEPT = Why do you insist on calling god a "He?????!!!!!!"
beebee
Orange

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Re: People have fundamentally different views of what God is.
DEITY is personalizable as God, is prepersonal and superpersonal in ways not altogether comprehensible by man. Deity is characterized by the quality of unity — actual or potential — on all supermaterial levels of reality; and this unifying quality is best comprehended by creatures as divinity.

Deity functions on personal, prepersonal, and superpersonal levels. Total Deity is functional on the following seven levels:

Static —1. self-contained and self-existent Deity.

2. Potential — self-willed and self-purposive Deity.

3. Associative — self-personalized and divinely fraternal Deity.

4. Creative — self-distributive and divinely revealed Deity.

5. Evolutional — self-expansive and creature-identified Deity.

6. Supreme — self-experiential and creature-Creator-unifying Deity. Deity functioning on the first creature-identificational level as time-space overcontrollers of the grand universe, sometimes designated the Supremacy of Deity.

7. Ultimate — self-projected and time-space-transcending Deity. Deity omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent. Deity functioning on the second level of unifying divinity expression as effective overcontrollers and absonite upholders of the master universe. As compared with the ministry of the Deities to the grand universe, this absonite function in the master universe is tantamount to universal overcontrol and supersustenance, sometimes called the Ultimacy of Deity.

The finite level of reality is characterized by creature life and time-space limitations. Finite realities may not have endings, but they always have beginnings — they are created. The Deity level of Supremacy may be conceived as a function in relation to finite existences.

The absonite level of reality is characterized by things and beings without beginnings or endings and by the transcendence of time and space. Absoniters are not created; they are eventuated — they simply are. The Deity level of Ultimacy connotes a function in relation to absonite realities. No matter in what part of the master universe, whenever time and space are transcended, such an absonite phenomenon is an act of the Ultimacy of Deity.

The absolute level is beginningless, endless, timeless, and spaceless. For example: On Paradise, time and space are nonexistent; the time-space status of Paradise is absolute. This level is Trinity attained, existentially, by the Paradise Deities, but this third level of unifying Deity expression is not fully unified experientially. Whenever, wherever, and however the absolute level of Deity functions, Paradise-absolute values and meanings are manifest.

Simple Watson.
Those who seek God seek everything, those who find God find everything.
Anonymous Coward
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12/13/2011 09:55 PM
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Re: People have fundamentally different views of what God is.
Both views agree that God is the creator of all life, but the fundamental difference that I am talking about here is whether we are children of a higher God/Father or a piece of God, spiritually a perfect part or piece of God.
 Quoting: 1123581321


Your perspective is nothing new - it's ancient, in fact. It's the split between immanence and transcendence, between purusha and prakriti, even the difference between subjective and objective.

It's also immature, because it doen't recognize these perspectives as just that - perspectives.

The real question is who is having these perspectives? Who discusses this? If time exists, who developed through time? If time doesn't exist, who is it that is beyond time and the space it is forever a part of?

You?

Who are you?
overmind

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12/13/2011 10:17 PM
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Re: People have fundamentally different views of what God is.
How can God not be everything? If it's not...then it's an incomplete or "lesser" god.
We ALL agree on that IF u believe in god.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1547813


I guess what we are talking about is a difference in perception. For me the fundamental question is whether we view God as a higher being that directly governs our everyday lives or whether God is made up of all of the life forms in this universe.

Both views agree that God is the creator of all life, but the fundamental difference that I am talking about here is whether we are children of a higher God/Father or a piece of God, spiritually a perfect part or piece of God.
 Quoting: 1123581321


The reality is that both are true at the same time because God exists in multiple forms (He is infinite after all). You have the Trinity (although not necessarily the Christian version) on the Isle of Paradise, separated from time/space and remains as the center of infinity. Then you have God the Supreme (or the Supreme Being) which is made up of all life in the universe as well as being a reflection of Trinity values. This part of God is technically finite, even if its future is eternal in nature. A part of the Father (I AM) also resides within every person and eventually fuses with the mortal sometime after death. This is known as the second birth; it is how ascending Sons of God become Divine beings.
beebee

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12/13/2011 10:25 PM
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Re: People have fundamentally different views of what God is.
Why do so many people think of God as male?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 252372


It's called programming/conditioning of the mind. Because "the bible tells me so." The buy-bull calls god a "father" The Anunnaki are a male dominated, chauvinistic group and they are responsible for creating all the different bull-shit religions in order to control. Being the male chauvinists that they are, they simply built their male domination right into the disgusting religions they created.
beebee
Anonymous Coward
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12/13/2011 10:27 PM
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Re: People have fundamentally different views of what God is.
The bigger question is what God isn't.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 7057750


God isn't REAL.
Anonymous Coward
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12/13/2011 10:50 PM
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Re: People have fundamentally different views of what God is.
The bigger question is what God isn't.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 7057750


God isn't REAL.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1098392


"An unexamined belief is not worth holding."
Anonymous Coward
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12/13/2011 11:05 PM
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Re: People have fundamentally different views of what God is.
The bigger question is what God isn't.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 7057750


God isn't REAL.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1098392


Yea he is. We have all known him as Jesus.

Caveman isn't real.
Crankgorilla

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12/13/2011 11:13 PM
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Re: People have fundamentally different views of what God is.
It's all in your head. If you're hearing voices, seek treatment.

pump2
Lo
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12/13/2011 11:41 PM
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Re: People have fundamentally different views of what God is.
It's all in your head. If you're hearing voices, seek treatment.

pump2
 Quoting: Crankgorilla


There's no proof psychiatry is real either. It is quackery.

It's not in our head, it's in the history books. Have you read them?

Here is a quote from the Encyclopedia Britannica concerning the testimony of the many independent secular accounts of Jesus of Nazareth: "These independent accounts prove that in ancient times even the opponents of Christianity never doubted the historicity of Jesus, which was disputed for the first time and on inadequate grounds by several authors at the end of the 18th, during the 19th, and at the beginning of the 20th centuries."
[link to www.thedevineevidence.com]

The Evidence for the Existence of Jesus

[link to video.google.com]

CORNELIUS TACITUS (55 - 120 A.D.) Tacitus was a 1st and 2nd century Roman historian who lived through the reigns of over half a dozen Roman emperors. Considered one of the greatest historians of ancient Rome, Tacitus verifies the Biblical account of Jesus' execution at the hands of Pontius Pilate who governed Judea from 26-36 A.D. during the reign of Tiberius.

"Christus, the founder of the [Christian] name, was put to death by Pontius Pilate, procurator of Judea in the reign of Tiberius. But the pernicious superstition, repressed for a time, broke out again, not only through Judea, where the mischief originated, by through the city of Rome also." Annals XV, 44
[link to www.perseus.tufts.edu]

What this passage reveals and how it confirms the Biblical account:

-Jesus did exist

-Jesus was the founder of Christianity

-Jesus was put to death by Pilate

-Christianity originated in Judea (With Jesus)

-Christianity later spread to Rome (Through the Apostles and Evangelists)

Because of his position as a professional historian and not as a commentator Tacitus referenced government records over Christian testimony. There is not a surviving copy of Tacitus' Annals that does not contain this passage. There is no verifiable evidence of tampering of any kind in this passage. It simply provides evidence of Jesus' existence (a topic not debated at this point in history) and not his divinity.


GAIUS SUETONIUS TRANQUILLUS (69 - 130 A.D.) Suetonius was a prominent Roman historian who recorded the lives of the Roman Caesars and the historical events surrounding their reigns. He served as a court official under Hadrian and as an annalist for the Imperial House. Suetonius records the expulsion of the Christian jewish people from Rome (mentioned in Acts 18:2) and confirms the Christian faith being founded by Christ.

"As the jewish people were making constant disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus, [Claudius] expelled them from Rome." Life of Claudius 25.4
[link to www.fordham.edu]

THALLUS (~ 52 A.D.) Although his works exist only in fragments, Julius Africanus debates Thallus' explanation of the midday darkness which occurred during the Passover of Jesus' crucifixion. Thallus tries to dismiss the darkness as a natural occurrence (a solar eclipse) but Africanus argues (and any astronomer can confirm) a solar eclipse cannot physically occur during a full moon due to the alignment of the planets. Phlegon of Tralles, a 2nd century secular historian, also mentions the darkness and tries to dismiss it as a solar eclipse. He also states the event occurred during the time of Tiberius Caesar.

"On the whole world there pressed a most fearful darkness. The rocks were rent by an earthquake and many places in Judea and other districts were thrown down. This darkness Thallus, in the third book of his History, calls, as appears to me without reason, an eclipse of the sun. For the Hebrews celebrate the passover on the 14th day according to the moon, and the passion of our Savior falls on the day before the passover. But an eclipse of the sun takes place only when the moon comes under the sun. And it cannot happen at any other time... Phlegon records that, in the time of Tiberius Caesar, at full moon, there was a full eclipse of the sun from the sixth hour to the ninth-manifestly that one of which we speak." Chronography XVIII, 47
[link to www.ccel.org]

PLINY THE YOUNGER (63 - 113 A.D) Pliny the Younger admits to torturing and executing Christians who refused to deny Christ. Those who denied the charges were spared and ordered to exalt the Roman gods and curse the name of Christ. Pliny addresses his concerns to Emperor Trajan that too many citizens were being killed for their refusal to deny their faith.

"I asked them directly if they were Christians...those who persisted, I ordered away... Those who denied they were or ever had been Christians...worshiped both your image and the images of the gods and cursed Christ. They used to gather on a stated day before dawn and sing to Christ as if he were a god... All the more I believed it necessary to find out what was the truth from two servant maids, which were called deaconesses, by means of torture. Nothing more did I find than a disgusting, fanatical superstition. Therefore I stopped the examination, and hastened to consult you...on account of the number of people endangered. For many of all ages, all classes, and both sexes already are brought into danger..." Pliny's letter to Emperor Trajan
[link to www.tyrannus.com]

Though Pliny states some of the accused denied the charges, a recurring theme in the correspondence between Pliny and Trajan is the willingness of the true believer to die for Christ. This would hardly be reasonable if they knew He never existed!

Pliny states the Christians worshiped Christ as if he were a god. This indicates one who would not normally be considered a god, such as a human who was exalted to divine status. Also, the early Christians would have been in the position to know if Jesus was a historical figure or not.


CELSUS (~ 178 A.D.) Celsus was a second century Roman author and avid opponent of Christianity. He went to great lengths to disprove the divinity of Jesus yet never denied His actual existence. Unfortunately for Celsus, he sets himself up for criticism by mimicking the exact accusations brought against Jesus by the pharisees which had already been addressed and refuted in the New Testament.

On Jesus' Miracles: "Jesus, on account of his poverty, was hired out to go to Egypt. While there he acquired certain magical powers... He returned home highly elated at possessing these powers, and on the strength of them gave himself out to be a god... It was by means of sorcery that He was able to accomplish the wonders which He performed... Let us believe that these cures, or the resurrection, or the feeding of a multitude with a few loaves... These are nothing more than the tricks of jugglers... It is by the names of certain demons, and by the use of incantations, that the Christians appear to be possessed of miraculous power..."

Not only does Celsus confirm Jesus' existence, he also tries to debate the source of Jesus' miracles. Like the pharisees of Jesus' day, Celsus tries to dismiss these miracles as both demonic possession and cheap parlor tricks. However, he is clearly grasping at straws: On one hand Celsus accuses Jesus of performing magic learned in Egypt, then later states it is by the power of possession, then states the miracles were not really miracles at all but were illusionary tricks performed by a deceiver, then finally states the miracles never occurred!

On the Virgin Birth: "Jesus had come from a village in Judea, and was the son of a poor Jewess who gained her living by the work of her hands. His mother had been turned out by her husband, who was a carpenter by trade, on being convicted of adultery [with a Roman soldier named Panthera]. Being thus driven away by her husband, and wandering about in disgrace, she gave birth to Jesus, a bastard."

Celsus acknowledges Jesus' birth and existence but does not accept the concept of a virgin conception. He tries to dismiss Mary's premarital pregnancy as the result of an affair she had with a Roman soldier. Strangely enough, there is a very similar passage in the Jewish Talmud which makes the same accusation. This gives us reason to believe Celsus might have referenced Jewish sources for some of his arguments.

On the Apostles: "Jesus gathered around him ten or eleven persons of notorious character... tax-collectors, sailors, and fishermen... He was deserted and delivered up by those who had been his associates, who had him for their teacher, and who believed he was the savior and son of the greatest God... Those who were his associates while alive, who listened to his voice, and enjoyed his instructions as their teacher, on seeing him subjected to punishment and death, neither died with nor for him... but denied that they were even his disciples, lest they die along with Him."

Celsus' intentions were to argue that if the disciples really believed Jesus was the Son of God, they would not have forsaken Him at His arrest. Instead, he only ends up confirming the Biblical account! The Bible tells us when Jesus was arrested, the apostles denied being His followers. It was only upon Jesus' resurrection they understood the spiritual principles concerning Jesus' crucifixion and boldly went out to preach the Gospel. Celsus is also wrong with his statement, they neither died with nor for him. We are told by early historians all but one of the remaining apostles were killed for their faith.

On Jesus' Divinity: "One who was a God could neither flee nor be led away a prisoner... What great deeds did Jesus perform as God? Did he put his enemies to shame or bring to an end what was designed against him? No calamity happened even to him who condemned him... Why does he not give some manifestation of his divinity, and free himself from this reproach, and take vengeance upon those who insult both him and his Father?"

Celsus ridicules Jesus for the exact same reasons the pharisees of His time ridiculed Him- if Jesus was the Son of God, why didn't He save Himself from the cross? Neither Celsus nor the pharisees understood the spiritual implications of Jesus' death to atone for sin. Celsus also asks why no judgment came upon the jewish people but history shows shortly after His death Jerusalem was invaded by the Romans, the Jewish temple was destroyed, and the Jewish people were dispersed for almost 2,000 years!

John the Baptist "If any one predicted to us that the Son of God was to visit mankind, he was one of our prophets, and the prophet of our God? John, who baptized Jesus, was a jewish."

Celsus confirms Jesus' baptism by John but asserts that John was the only one who actually prophesied His coming- not the Old Testament Messianic prophecies.

On the Crucifixion: "Jesus accordingly exhibited after His death only the appearance of wounds received on the cross, and was not in reality so wounded as He is described to have been."

In this statement, Celsus confirms Jesus' death by crucifixion although he claims the only wounds Jesus received were those inflicted by the crucifixion (thus denying any previous torture had taken place). But not even history offers Celsus the benefit of a doubt as floggings were the standard form of torture given to victims prior to crucifixion. Celsus contradicts himself yet again when he later states Jesus was probably never even crucified but instead had an impostor die in His place!

LUCIAN OF SAMOSATA (120 - ~180 A.D.) Lucian was a second century Greek satirist and rhetorician who scornfully describes his views of early Christianity. Though he ridicules the Christians and their Christ, his writings confirm Jesus was executed via crucifixion and that He was the founder of Christianity.

"The Christians, you know, worship a man to this day- the distinguished personage who introduced their novel rites, and was crucified on that account... It was impressed on them by their original lawgiver that they are all brothers from the moment they are converted and deny the gods of Greece, and worship the crucified sage, and live after his laws..." The Death of Peregrinus 11-13
[link to www.suite101.com]

What this passage reveals and how it confirms the Biblical account:

-Jesus did exist

-Jesus was the founder of Christianity

-Jesus was worshiped by His followers

-Jesus suffered death by crucifixion


MARA BAR-SERAPION (Post 70 A.D) Mara Bar-Serapion of Syria penned this letter from prison to his son. Though it is obvious he does not acknowledge Jesus as the Son of God, he does mention aspects of Jesus' life. There is some criticism regarding this passage but it must be noted nothing in Serapion's letter contradicts what we know about Jesus.

"What advantage did the Athenians gain from putting Socrates to death? Famine and plague came upon them as a judgment for their crime. What advantage did the men of Samos gain from burning Pythagoras? In a moment their land was covered with sand. What advantage did the jewish people gain from executing their wise King? It was just after that their kingdom was abolished. God justly avenged these three wise men: The Athenians died of hunger. The Samians were overwhelmed by the sea. The jewish people, ruined and driven from their land, live in complete dispersion. But Socrates did not die for good. He lived on in the teachings of Plato. Pythagoras did not die for good. He lived on in the statue of Hera. Nor did the wise King die for good. He lived on in the teaching which He had given."

How do we know this passage is a reference to Jesus?

-He was a wise King (Jesus was mocked by the Romans as The King of the jewish people, the messianic prophecies fulfilled by Jesus referred to the coming Messiah as a king, Christian believers believed Jesus was their promised spiritual king, and Jesus was born from the royal line of King David).

-He was Jewish (Jesus was a Galilean jewish).

-He was executed (Jesus was crucified after the jewish people appealed to Pilate to have Him crucified).

-After His death Jerusalem and the Temple were destroyed (This occurred in 70 A.D., after Jesus' death).

-The jewish people were dispersed after His death (The jewish people abandoned Judea after the Roman attack of 70 A.D.).

-He was a teacher (Jesus was a rabbi/teacher).

-He lived on after death in His teachings (Jesus and His teachings founded the Christian faith).


FLAVIUS JOSEPHUS (37 - 100 A.D.) Josephus was a first century pharisee and historian of both priestly and royal ancestry who provided important insight into first-century Judaism. Josephus was born only three years after the crucifixion of Jesus, making him a credible witness to the historicity of Jesus.

"Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the jewish people and many of the Gentiles. He was the Christ, and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men among us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him. For he appeared to them alive again the third day. As the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribes of Christians so named from him are not extinct at this day." Antiquities XVIII, 3:2
[link to www.gutenberg.org]

jewish people have no reason to embelish towards Christianity.

We'll now examine the second passage given to us by Josephus.


"So Ananus assembled a council of judges, and brought before it the brother of Jesus, the so-called Christ, whose name was James, together with some others, and having accused them as lawbreakers, he delivered them over to be stoned." Antiquities XX 9:1
[link to www.gutenberg.org]

Even if we dismiss the disputed words in Josephus' Testimonium, we still see he testifies to a number of things in the above two passages:

-Jesus lived in the first century

-He performed wonderful works (miracles)

-Some believed Jesus to be the Christ

-He was a teacher

-He had many followers

-He was tried by Pilate

-He was crucified

-He was the founder of Christianity

-James was the brother of Jesus


THE BABYLONIAN TALMUD The Babylonian Talmud is an ancient record of Jewish history, laws, and rabbinic teachings compiled throughout the centuries. Though it does not accept the divinity of Jesus, it confirms the belief He was hanged (an idiom for crucifixion) on the eve of the Passover.

"On the eve of the Passover Yeshu (Jesus) [Some texts: Yeshu/Jesus the Nazarene] was hanged [crucified]. Forty days before the execution, a herald went forth and cried, 'He is going forth to be stoned because he has practiced sorcery and enticed Israel to apostasy. Any one who can say anything in his favor, let him come forward and plead on his behalf.' But since nothing was brought forward in his favor he was hanged on the eve of the Passover."



CLEMENT OF ROME ( - 98 A.D.) Clement was a bishop of Rome. He was eventually martyred in approximately 98 A.D. Clement was a first century apostolic author which gives credence to his first-hand account of early Christianity. In the passage below, Clement confirms the ministry of the disciples and some of the basic tenets of early Christianity.

"The Apostles received the Gospel for us from the Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ was sent forth from God. So then Christ is from God, and the Apostles are from Christ. Both therefore came of the will of God in the appointed order. Having therefore received a charge, and being fully assured through the resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ and confirmed in the word of God will full assurance of the Holy Ghost, they went forth with the glad tidings that the kingdom of God should come. So preaching everywhere in country and town, they appointed their first fruits, when they had proved them by the Spirit, to be bishops and deacons unto them that should believe."



IGNATIUS OF ANTIOCH ( - ~100 A.D) Ignatius was a Bishop of Antioch reported to have been appointed to his position by Peter of whom he was a disciple. He is also believed to be a disciple of Paul and John. Ignatius was arrested by the Romans and executed as a martyr in the arena. Even though his testimony would ultimately lead to his death, Ignatius was adamant about the things he witnessed. He reinforces early Christian beliefs in the letters he penned while in prison. Even when execution was imminent, Ignatius refused to recant his faith.

"Jesus Christ who was of the race of David, who was the Son of Mary, who was truly born and ate and drank, was truly persecuted under Pontius Pilate, was truly crucified and died in the sight of those in heaven and on earth and those under the earth. Who moreover was truly raised from the dead, His father having raised Him, who in the like fashion will so raise us also who believe in Him."

"He is truly of the race of David according to the flesh but Son of God by the Divine will and powered, truly born of a virgin and baptized by John that all righteousness might be fulfilled by Him, truly nailed up in the flesh for our sakes under Pontius Pilate and Herod the tetrarch... That He might set up an ensign unto all ages through His resurrection." Smyrneans, 1
[link to www.ewtn.com]

"Be ye fully persuaded concerning the birth and the passion and the resurrection, which took place in the time of the governorship of Pontius Pilate. For these things were truly and certainly done by Jesus Christ our hope." Magnesians XI
[link to www.newadvent.org]

In regards to personal writings, Socrates, for example, exists only in the writings of his students. There is not a single document still in existence that contains his original works. If we apply the same logic with Socrates skeptics use to determine Jesus' historicity, we must assume Socrates was a figment of the imagination of his students. But if we are to accept Socrates as a historical figure based on four secondary accounts, we must also accept Jesus as a historical figure whose life was documented by His disciples, historians, and those who rejected His divine claims. When skeptics claim there is a difference between a man such as Socrates and Jesus, they would be absolutely correct- Jesus had more accounts written about Him.

AREN'T THE WRITINGS THAT REFER TO JESUS JUST HEARSAY ACCOUNTS?

Documenting the Gospels preserved the accounts for future generations but oral evangelism was the practical method in making the Gospel available to the current population. Whether the accounts were written the day after Jesus' ascension or 30 years later, the fact is they were still penned by either the original witnesses or during the lives of the original witnesses who could confront heretical accounts.

Jesus also concentrated His ministry in various provinces of Judea- not secular hubs of the ancient world like Rome or Alexandria. Christianity spread into the surrounding areas after the life of Jesus. I would be far more suspicious of a Roman historian writing an excerpt about Jesus in 30 A.D. rather approximately 95 A.D. when Christianity had reached Rome.


I purposely avoided using Biblical evidence to support the existence of Jesus because that would be "using the Bible to prove the Bible." Instead we focused this study on extrabiblical sources. However, early Christian historians and witnesses were unanimous in their accounts that several New Testament books were written by eye witnesses of both Jesus and the apostolic ministry. If these authors were indeed eye witnesses, we can believe they also provide evidence to the historicity of Jesus.


References:
[link to www.thedevineevidence.com]
[link to www.forerunner.com]
[link to www.creatingfutures.net]
[link to www.leestrobel.com]

This is interesting too ..

Nazareth Inscription
[link to en.wikipedia.org]
Jesus Era House Discovered in Nazareth
[link to abcnews.go.com]
[link to articles.cnn.com]
Anonymous Coward
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12/13/2011 11:42 PM
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Re: People have fundamentally different views of what God is.
And that's okay
Orange

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12/14/2011 10:44 AM

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Re: People have fundamentally different views of what God is.


Amen.
Those who seek God seek everything, those who find God find everything.
Orange

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12/14/2011 04:50 PM

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Re: People have fundamentally different views of what God is.
(4.5) 0:2.11 The word GOD is used, in these papers, with the following meanings:

(4.6) 0:2.12 1. God the Father — Creator, Controller, and Upholder. The Universal Father, the First Person of Deity.

(4.7) 0:2.13 2. God the Son — Co-ordinate Creator, Spirit Controller, and Spiritual Administrator. The Eternal Son, the Second Person of Deity.

(4.8) 0:2.14 3. God the Spirit — Conjoint Actor, Universal Integrator, and Mind Bestower. The Infinite Spirit, the Third Person of Deity.

(4.9) 0:2.15 4. God the Supreme — the actualizing or evolving God of time and space. Personal Deity associatively realizing the time-space experiential achievement of creature-Creator identity. The Supreme Being is personally experiencing the achievement of Deity unity as the evolving and experiential God of the evolutionary creatures of time and space.

(4.10) 0:2.16 5. God the Sevenfold — Deity personality anywhere actually functioning in time and space. The personal Paradise Deities and their creative associates functioning in and beyond the borders of the central universe and power-personalizing as the Supreme Being on the first creature level of unifying Deity revelation in time and space. This level, the grand universe, is the sphere of the time-space descension of Paradise personalities in reciprocal association with the time-space ascension of evolutionary creatures.

(4.11) 0:2.17 6. God the Ultimate — the eventuating God of supertime and transcended space. The second experiential level of unifying Deity manifestation. God the Ultimate implies the attained realization of the synthesized absonite-superpersonal, time-space-transcended, and eventuated-experiential values, co-ordinated on final creative levels of Deity reality.

(4.12) 0:2.18 7. God the Absolute — the experientializing God of transcended superpersonal values and divinity meanings, now existential as the Deity Absolute. This is the third level of unifying Deity expression and expansion. On this supercreative level, Deity experiences exhaustion of personalizable potential, encounters completion of divinity, and undergoes depletion of capacity for self-revelation to successive and progressive levels of other-personalization. Deity now encounters, impinges upon, and experiences identity with, the Unqualified Absolute.

Those who seek God seek everything, those who find God find everything.
Anonymous Coward
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12/14/2011 06:08 PM
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Re: People have fundamentally different views of what God is.
Much of the misunderstandings and arguments people have about religion and faith has to do with their fundamental understanding of what God is for them. Until these differences are understood, very little common ground in our beliefs can be agreed upon.

For me God is a "Universal Consciousness", the combined total of all spiritual existence in this universe. In my view, this great Universal Consciousness is not a being that gets involved in our daily lives or our spiritual growth. We each control our own lives through our own individual inner spiritual self. WE decide what experiences we need next. WE decide what our life will be like in this and every other incarnation. As I have said before in other threads, we are each a drop of life in the ocean of God. An equal and perfect part of God. He is not a father to us, but a total of our higher selves and all life around us. We are like a cell in the body of God. We are each individual beings, but part of the whole we call God. He is no more involved in our daily lives than our body is involved in the growth of an individual cell in our physical body. We are a personal and individual part of the whole. That whole is God. Not our Father, but our whole.

These basic differences in understanding you and I have make all of our other views of life very different. With each of us seeing God so differently, how can we agree on other aspects of our reality?

Peace,
Fibonacci
 Quoting: 1123581321


To each his own, but still; IMHO;

Go beyond "human fathers" in the concept of Father,
and the word does not taste so bad in your mouth anymore.

Go beyond gender, beard, white gown, and random brain funcs and this galaxy, in the concept of God, and you have started to go forward.

If there was no Father, there would be no Brothers.

Brother means to have a mutual parent.
Brother means equality in the eyes of the parent and between the brothers.
Brother means to accept that you are not holier than thy brother.

If you prefer a mom, pray to the Holy Spirit (3rd person of Trinity).

If you prefer the word sister, let us all be girls, then!
Much more orgasms and giggling!

God does not need us to live, we do need him to live forever!

He can't help it! That's the way it has to be, scientifically, logically, too! You cannot separate, detach energy user from the energy provider, unless you yourself are the energy source, and unless you want true death?

God is the source of all energy and force.
Giver of the Spirit and consciousness.
He is the First Person there always was and eternally is.

Humans will never become God, no matter what autofellating masons and other esoteric fags teach and believe.

Godlike, yes, like angels, yes. So don't be down, stand up!
Stop fantasizing, it will only keep your balls funsize!

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