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Scientists say Turin Shroud is supernatural - Brand-new research from Italy

 
malfunkshun007

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12/20/2011 05:04 PM
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Re: Scientists say Turin Shroud is supernatural - Brand-new research from Italy
So your argument is that you dont want to believe because Christ didnt do a miracle to your liking?..well tough !
 Quoting: wildhoney


well his argument is like this. i had a friend that accused the writers of the bible to be the greatest fiction writers of their era. it basically excused him from any thought on the subject. any aspect of the word he could throw up the standard defense. this is basically the same way. if you call everything in the bible intentional deceit there is no ground that opposition could stand on to debate properly.
 Quoting: malfunkshun007


see how long it takes him to respond to any of these? more than likely a google troll. he is flipping through all his dawkins books right now. i am out.
All morons hate it when you call them a moron.

People always think something's all true.

It's funny. All you have to do is say something nobody understands and they'll do practically anything you want them to.

-Holden Caulfield
BRIEF
Rebel with morals

User ID: 381742
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12/20/2011 05:06 PM

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Re: Scientists say Turin Shroud is supernatural - Brand-new research from Italy
Honey, when do you think Jesus will come?
With freedom comes responsibility.

Heterosexual pride!

Briefcut4892
wildhoney

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12/20/2011 05:07 PM

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Re: Scientists say Turin Shroud is supernatural - Brand-new research from Italy
The fact remains..this cloth was a cloth with marks..it allegedly survived the seige of Constantinople..was reportedly the Mandelion that healed the ruler of Edesa..brought by the Templars to Europe..and survived miraculously various attempts to destroy it..to this day when behold technology has revelaed amazing data that in my opinion more than confirms its authenticity and the Resurrection of Christ our Messiah

Last Edited by wildhoney on 12/20/2011 05:07 PM
Matthew 16>18
And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it..
Peter was crucified..on Vatican Hill

"Thou shalt not kill" does not apply to murder of one's own kind only, but to all living beings; and this Commandment was inscribed in the human breast long before it was proclaimed from Sinai. ~Leo Tolstoy


You have heard that it was said, "You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy."
But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have?

..Immanuel ,The Christ (Sermon Of The Mount)


“WHAT YOU DO TO OTHERS YOU DO TO YOURSELF FOR THAT IS THE LAW..AND THE PROFIT"

..)

Preach the Gospel at all times..and when necessary use words..

St.Francis Of Assisi..

Dont look at where the finger is pointing..but at WHO is doing the pointing


wildhoney14@yahoo.com

[link to www.google.ca]

Be part of the re evolution of the Spirit..say yes to peace and love..be called child of God

Inherit the Kingdom

...Time of the Angels..


oh and PLEASE STOP SENDING ME SPAM FROM AFRICA..thank you :)
wildhoney

User ID: 1486952
Spain
12/20/2011 05:09 PM

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Re: Scientists say Turin Shroud is supernatural - Brand-new research from Italy
Honey, when do you think Jesus will come?
 Quoting: BRIEF


Only God knows..because we are to be unprepared..so we are as we truly are and not all prepped up in the hope of being saved because we know He is coming

But in my opinion..its close very..
Matthew 16>18
And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it..
Peter was crucified..on Vatican Hill

"Thou shalt not kill" does not apply to murder of one's own kind only, but to all living beings; and this Commandment was inscribed in the human breast long before it was proclaimed from Sinai. ~Leo Tolstoy


You have heard that it was said, "You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy."
But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have?

..Immanuel ,The Christ (Sermon Of The Mount)


“WHAT YOU DO TO OTHERS YOU DO TO YOURSELF FOR THAT IS THE LAW..AND THE PROFIT"

..)

Preach the Gospel at all times..and when necessary use words..

St.Francis Of Assisi..

Dont look at where the finger is pointing..but at WHO is doing the pointing


wildhoney14@yahoo.com

[link to www.google.ca]

Be part of the re evolution of the Spirit..say yes to peace and love..be called child of God

Inherit the Kingdom

...Time of the Angels..


oh and PLEASE STOP SENDING ME SPAM FROM AFRICA..thank you :)
wildhoney

User ID: 1486952
Spain
12/20/2011 05:09 PM

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Re: Scientists say Turin Shroud is supernatural - Brand-new research from Italy
Honey, when do you think Jesus will come?
 Quoting: BRIEF


Only God knows..because we are to be unprepared..so we are as we truly are and not all prepped up in the hope of being saved because we know He is coming

But in my opinion..its close very..
 Quoting: wildhoney


In fact I would say NOW
But thats just my opinion
Matthew 16>18
And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it..
Peter was crucified..on Vatican Hill

"Thou shalt not kill" does not apply to murder of one's own kind only, but to all living beings; and this Commandment was inscribed in the human breast long before it was proclaimed from Sinai. ~Leo Tolstoy


You have heard that it was said, "You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy."
But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have?

..Immanuel ,The Christ (Sermon Of The Mount)


“WHAT YOU DO TO OTHERS YOU DO TO YOURSELF FOR THAT IS THE LAW..AND THE PROFIT"

..)

Preach the Gospel at all times..and when necessary use words..

St.Francis Of Assisi..

Dont look at where the finger is pointing..but at WHO is doing the pointing


wildhoney14@yahoo.com

[link to www.google.ca]

Be part of the re evolution of the Spirit..say yes to peace and love..be called child of God

Inherit the Kingdom

...Time of the Angels..


oh and PLEASE STOP SENDING ME SPAM FROM AFRICA..thank you :)
wildhoney

User ID: 1486952
Spain
12/20/2011 05:13 PM

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Re: Scientists say Turin Shroud is supernatural - Brand-new research from Italy
But He says He will come as a thief in the night

I.e. we wont know He is here I think

A thief in the night is not seen

Last Edited by wildhoney on 12/20/2011 05:14 PM
Matthew 16>18
And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it..
Peter was crucified..on Vatican Hill

"Thou shalt not kill" does not apply to murder of one's own kind only, but to all living beings; and this Commandment was inscribed in the human breast long before it was proclaimed from Sinai. ~Leo Tolstoy


You have heard that it was said, "You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy."
But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have?

..Immanuel ,The Christ (Sermon Of The Mount)


“WHAT YOU DO TO OTHERS YOU DO TO YOURSELF FOR THAT IS THE LAW..AND THE PROFIT"

..)

Preach the Gospel at all times..and when necessary use words..

St.Francis Of Assisi..

Dont look at where the finger is pointing..but at WHO is doing the pointing


wildhoney14@yahoo.com

[link to www.google.ca]

Be part of the re evolution of the Spirit..say yes to peace and love..be called child of God

Inherit the Kingdom

...Time of the Angels..


oh and PLEASE STOP SENDING ME SPAM FROM AFRICA..thank you :)
just a dude

User ID: 1080654
United States
12/20/2011 05:17 PM
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Re: Scientists say Turin Shroud is supernatural - Brand-new research from Italy
...


First of all, where is the empirical data that would suggest that this event even happened? Secondly, who is to say it wasn't a coup formed by the cultists followers to make this man appear "supernatural?" Finally, what exactly was Lazarus' illness?

I'll be waiting...


Oh, and bible verses written by bronze aged philosophers do not count as proofs.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1502042


hahaha your good. so basically you want to offer your undeniable proof that Jesus was not capable of the miraculous. using "common sense" and occams razor? to do this you are going to offer someone to throw out a miracle to debunk... any miracle. but then call on the responder to provide the burden of proof that it happened? well you could easily use this argument for any miracle. to be honest if they caught it on CCTV you could still hide behind some form of the argument.
 Quoting: malfunkshun007



Wrong, we have never had undeniable proof that anything supernatural has ever happened. So using Occams Razor, I can tell you this.
This was a staged resurrection. The two sisters sent Jesus a word that Lazarus was ill so that he starts his plan. He remained for two days near Lazarus. Then he led his stupid disciples towards mainland Judea where the Pharisees tried to stone him. Then Jesus wasted time in order to let Lazarus do his part. Lazarus disappeared for a while and the sisters claimed that he was dead and already buried. At the planed time for his staged resurrection, Lazarus tied himself up and waited in the CAVE for Jesus to call him out. When Jesus returned, everybody played his part as planned, tears, even the exact words “LORD, IF YOU HAD BEEN HERE, MY BROTHER WOULD NOT HAVE DIED”. They knew that Jesus was near Lazarus all along and lied about it in front of the jewish people. Lazarus simply waited in the cave for Jesus to call him and led the jewish people to believe that Jesus was the Messiah who can do real miracles and even raise the dead...

(Jn 11,5) Now Jesus loved Martha and her sister and Lazarus.

IF JESUS COULD REALLY RAISE THE DEAD, HE WOULD NOT HAVE CALLED HIS BELOVED DISCIPLE OUT OF A CAVE. HE WOULD HAVE LED THE jewish people TO THE NEAREST GRAVEYARD, DUG UP A SKELETON AND BROUGHT IT BACK TO LIFE. BUT OF COURSE HE DIDN’T BECAUSE HE COULDN’T.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1502042


Lazarus had been dead for a while and STANK..i.e he was already rotting..there were allegedly eye witness reports..

remember this happened in a small town ..village where everyone knows everyone elses buisness..peopleknew that Lazarus was dead
The Sanhedrin allegedly went ballistic after this..the word was spreading about this resurrection and they allegedly decided He had to be stopped..
 Quoting: wildhoney



Food for thought:


Some extremely interesting experiments were performed by V.P. Kaznacheyev et al regarding the paranormal transmission of death by light inter-organism communication.

Briefly, two groups of cells were selected from the same cell culture and one sample placed on each side of a window joining two environmentally shielded rooms. The cell cultures were in quartz containers. One cell culture was used as the initiation sample and was subjected to a deadly mechanism - virus, germ, chemical poison, irradiation, ultraviolet rays, etc. The second cell culture was observed, to ascertain any transmitted effects from the culture sample being killed.

When the window was made of ordinary glass, the second sample remained alive and healthy. When the window was made of quartz, the second sample sickened and died with the same symptoms as the primary sample.

The experiments were done in darkness, and over 5,000 were reported by Kaznacheyev and his colleagues. The onset of induced complementary sickness and death in the second culture followed a reasonable time -- say two to four hours -- behind sickness and death in the primary culture.

The major transmission difference between window glass and quartz is that quartz transmits both ultraviolet and infrared well, while glass is relatively opaque to ultraviolet and infrared. Both quartz and glass transmit visible light. Thus glass is a suppressor of the paranormal channel, while quartz is not.

In 1950, Western researchers found that cells could be killed in darkness with ultraviolet radiation, kept shielded from visible light for twenty-four hours or longer, and then if radiated with visible light the cells would start reviving by hundreds of thousands even though they had been clinically dead.

Specifically, every cell emits mitogenetic radiation in the ultraviolet range twice: when it is born and when it dies. The UV photon emitted at death contains the exact virtual state pattern of the condition of the cell at death. The healthy cells are bombarded with death messages from those that are dying, and this diffuses the death pattern throughout the healthy culture, eventually kindling into the same death pattern there.

[V.P. Kaznacheyev et al, "Distant Intercellular Interactions in a System of Two Tissue Cultures," Psychoenergetic Systems, Vol. 1, No. 3, March 1976, pp 141-142.]

[link to www.viewzone.com]
Discretionary email only, please.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1502042
United States
12/20/2011 05:23 PM
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Re: Scientists say Turin Shroud is supernatural - Brand-new research from Italy
...


First of all, where is the empirical data that would suggest that this event even happened? Secondly, who is to say it wasn't a coup formed by the cultists followers to make this man appear "supernatural?" Finally, what exactly was Lazarus' illness?

I'll be waiting...


Oh, and bible verses written by bronze aged philosophers do not count as proofs.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1502042


hahaha your good. so basically you want to offer your undeniable proof that Jesus was not capable of the miraculous. using "common sense" and occams razor? to do this you are going to offer someone to throw out a miracle to debunk... any miracle. but then call on the responder to provide the burden of proof that it happened? well you could easily use this argument for any miracle. to be honest if they caught it on CCTV you could still hide behind some form of the argument.
 Quoting: malfunkshun007



Wrong, we have never had undeniable proof that anything supernatural has ever happened. So using Occams Razor, I can tell you this.
This was a staged resurrection. The two sisters sent Jesus a word that Lazarus was ill so that he starts his plan. He remained for two days near Lazarus. Then he led his stupid disciples towards mainland Judea where the Pharisees tried to stone him. Then Jesus wasted time in order to let Lazarus do his part. Lazarus disappeared for a while and the sisters claimed that he was dead and already buried. At the planed time for his staged resurrection, Lazarus tied himself up and waited in the CAVE for Jesus to call him out. When Jesus returned, everybody played his part as planned, tears, even the exact words “LORD, IF YOU HAD BEEN HERE, MY BROTHER WOULD NOT HAVE DIED”. They knew that Jesus was near Lazarus all along and lied about it in front of the jewish people. Lazarus simply waited in the cave for Jesus to call him and led the jewish people to believe that Jesus was the Messiah who can do real miracles and even raise the dead...

(Jn 11,5) Now Jesus loved Martha and her sister and Lazarus.

IF JESUS COULD REALLY RAISE THE DEAD, HE WOULD NOT HAVE CALLED HIS BELOVED DISCIPLE OUT OF A CAVE. HE WOULD HAVE LED THE jewish people TO THE NEAREST GRAVEYARD, DUG UP A SKELETON AND BROUGHT IT BACK TO LIFE. BUT OF COURSE HE DIDN’T BECAUSE HE COULDN’T.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1502042


ok so what did he have to gain by this? money? status? he knew his claims endangered his life. did he do it so we would be worshiping him 2000 years later? was it like an episode of nazarene punk'd or something? ok well once again you could apply this logic to every aspect of the bible due to authors sharing a common goal here. to claim occams razor is an assumption that everyone would think like you. there has to be a desire for deceit. if not then this is not the easiest path to the result by far. nor is it the path to the result of the most common sense. only in some minds. so it is a theory at best.

so we would have to exclude the bibly all together here. if you truly claim it is a hoax. then try this one. lets throw the testimon ium flavianum out there. how do you answer it?

keep in mind this man was an apologetic and a roman. desire would be to see Jesus as a hoax.

3.3 Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man; for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the jewish people and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ. And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day.[27]
 Quoting: malfunkshun007


LOL you have the nerve to call me a Google troll...

Nice [27]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1502042
United States
12/20/2011 05:27 PM
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Re: Scientists say Turin Shroud is supernatural - Brand-new research from Italy
...


First of all, where is the empirical data that would suggest that this event even happened? Secondly, who is to say it wasn't a coup formed by the cultists followers to make this man appear "supernatural?" Finally, what exactly was Lazarus' illness?

I'll be waiting...


Oh, and bible verses written by bronze aged philosophers do not count as proofs.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1502042


hahaha your good. so basically you want to offer your undeniable proof that Jesus was not capable of the miraculous. using "common sense" and occams razor? to do this you are going to offer someone to throw out a miracle to debunk... any miracle. but then call on the responder to provide the burden of proof that it happened? well you could easily use this argument for any miracle. to be honest if they caught it on CCTV you could still hide behind some form of the argument.
 Quoting: malfunkshun007



Wrong, we have never had undeniable proof that anything supernatural has ever happened. So using Occams Razor, I can tell you this.
This was a staged resurrection. The two sisters sent Jesus a word that Lazarus was ill so that he starts his plan. He remained for two days near Lazarus. Then he led his stupid disciples towards mainland Judea where the Pharisees tried to stone him. Then Jesus wasted time in order to let Lazarus do his part. Lazarus disappeared for a while and the sisters claimed that he was dead and already buried. At the planed time for his staged resurrection, Lazarus tied himself up and waited in the CAVE for Jesus to call him out. When Jesus returned, everybody played his part as planned, tears, even the exact words “LORD, IF YOU HAD BEEN HERE, MY BROTHER WOULD NOT HAVE DIED”. They knew that Jesus was near Lazarus all along and lied about it in front of the jewish people. Lazarus simply waited in the cave for Jesus to call him and led the jewish people to believe that Jesus was the Messiah who can do real miracles and even raise the dead...

(Jn 11,5) Now Jesus loved Martha and her sister and Lazarus.

IF JESUS COULD REALLY RAISE THE DEAD, HE WOULD NOT HAVE CALLED HIS BELOVED DISCIPLE OUT OF A CAVE. HE WOULD HAVE LED THE jewish people TO THE NEAREST GRAVEYARD, DUG UP A SKELETON AND BROUGHT IT BACK TO LIFE. BUT OF COURSE HE DIDN’T BECAUSE HE COULDN’T.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1502042


Lazarus had been dead for a while and STANK..i.e he was already rotting..there were allegedly eye witness reports..

remember this happened in a small town ..village where everyone knows everyone elses buisness..peopleknew that Lazarus was dead
The Sanhedrin allegedly went ballistic after this..the word was spreading about this resurrection and they allegedly decided He had to be stopped..
 Quoting: wildhoney


Anyone sitting in a cave for 4 days would stink. Add in a dead rat for good measure and you have a "miracle."

Parlor tricks in a rumormill small town. You people are gullible...
wildhoney

User ID: 1486952
Spain
12/20/2011 05:31 PM

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Re: Scientists say Turin Shroud is supernatural - Brand-new research from Italy
...


hahaha your good. so basically you want to offer your undeniable proof that Jesus was not capable of the miraculous. using "common sense" and occams razor? to do this you are going to offer someone to throw out a miracle to debunk... any miracle. but then call on the responder to provide the burden of proof that it happened? well you could easily use this argument for any miracle. to be honest if they caught it on CCTV you could still hide behind some form of the argument.
 Quoting: malfunkshun007



Wrong, we have never had undeniable proof that anything supernatural has ever happened. So using Occams Razor, I can tell you this.
This was a staged resurrection. The two sisters sent Jesus a word that Lazarus was ill so that he starts his plan. He remained for two days near Lazarus. Then he led his stupid disciples towards mainland Judea where the Pharisees tried to stone him. Then Jesus wasted time in order to let Lazarus do his part. Lazarus disappeared for a while and the sisters claimed that he was dead and already buried. At the planed time for his staged resurrection, Lazarus tied himself up and waited in the CAVE for Jesus to call him out. When Jesus returned, everybody played his part as planned, tears, even the exact words “LORD, IF YOU HAD BEEN HERE, MY BROTHER WOULD NOT HAVE DIED”. They knew that Jesus was near Lazarus all along and lied about it in front of the jewish people. Lazarus simply waited in the cave for Jesus to call him and led the jewish people to believe that Jesus was the Messiah who can do real miracles and even raise the dead...

(Jn 11,5) Now Jesus loved Martha and her sister and Lazarus.

IF JESUS COULD REALLY RAISE THE DEAD, HE WOULD NOT HAVE CALLED HIS BELOVED DISCIPLE OUT OF A CAVE. HE WOULD HAVE LED THE jewish people TO THE NEAREST GRAVEYARD, DUG UP A SKELETON AND BROUGHT IT BACK TO LIFE. BUT OF COURSE HE DIDN’T BECAUSE HE COULDN’T.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1502042


Lazarus had been dead for a while and STANK..i.e he was already rotting..there were allegedly eye witness reports..

remember this happened in a small town ..village where everyone knows everyone elses buisness..peopleknew that Lazarus was dead
The Sanhedrin allegedly went ballistic after this..the word was spreading about this resurrection and they allegedly decided He had to be stopped..
 Quoting: wildhoney


Anyone sitting in a cave for 4 days would stink. Add in a dead rat for good measure and you have a "miracle."

Parlor tricks in a rumormill small town. You people are gullible...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1502042


Gullible?..funny I thought it was you just getting desperate
Matthew 16>18
And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it..
Peter was crucified..on Vatican Hill

"Thou shalt not kill" does not apply to murder of one's own kind only, but to all living beings; and this Commandment was inscribed in the human breast long before it was proclaimed from Sinai. ~Leo Tolstoy


You have heard that it was said, "You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy."
But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have?

..Immanuel ,The Christ (Sermon Of The Mount)


“WHAT YOU DO TO OTHERS YOU DO TO YOURSELF FOR THAT IS THE LAW..AND THE PROFIT"

..)

Preach the Gospel at all times..and when necessary use words..

St.Francis Of Assisi..

Dont look at where the finger is pointing..but at WHO is doing the pointing


wildhoney14@yahoo.com

[link to www.google.ca]

Be part of the re evolution of the Spirit..say yes to peace and love..be called child of God

Inherit the Kingdom

...Time of the Angels..


oh and PLEASE STOP SENDING ME SPAM FROM AFRICA..thank you :)
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1502042
United States
12/20/2011 05:32 PM
Report Abusive Post
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Re: Scientists say Turin Shroud is supernatural - Brand-new research from Italy
...


First of all, where is the empirical data that would suggest that this event even happened? Secondly, who is to say it wasn't a coup formed by the cultists followers to make this man appear "supernatural?" Finally, what exactly was Lazarus' illness?

I'll be waiting...


Oh, and bible verses written by bronze aged philosophers do not count as proofs.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1502042


hahaha your good. so basically you want to offer your undeniable proof that Jesus was not capable of the miraculous. using "common sense" and occams razor? to do this you are going to offer someone to throw out a miracle to debunk... any miracle. but then call on the responder to provide the burden of proof that it happened? well you could easily use this argument for any miracle. to be honest if they caught it on CCTV you could still hide behind some form of the argument.
 Quoting: malfunkshun007



Wrong, we have never had undeniable proof that anything supernatural has ever happened. So using Occams Razor, I can tell you this.
This was a staged resurrection. The two sisters sent Jesus a word that Lazarus was ill so that he starts his plan. He remained for two days near Lazarus. Then he led his stupid disciples towards mainland Judea where the Pharisees tried to stone him. Then Jesus wasted time in order to let Lazarus do his part. Lazarus disappeared for a while and the sisters claimed that he was dead and already buried. At the planed time for his staged resurrection, Lazarus tied himself up and waited in the CAVE for Jesus to call him out. When Jesus returned, everybody played his part as planned, tears, even the exact words “LORD, IF YOU HAD BEEN HERE, MY BROTHER WOULD NOT HAVE DIED”. They knew that Jesus was near Lazarus all along and lied about it in front of the jewish people. Lazarus simply waited in the cave for Jesus to call him and led the jewish people to believe that Jesus was the Messiah who can do real miracles and even raise the dead...

(Jn 11,5) Now Jesus loved Martha and her sister and Lazarus.

IF JESUS COULD REALLY RAISE THE DEAD, HE WOULD NOT HAVE CALLED HIS BELOVED DISCIPLE OUT OF A CAVE. HE WOULD HAVE LED THE jewish people TO THE NEAREST GRAVEYARD, DUG UP A SKELETON AND BROUGHT IT BACK TO LIFE. BUT OF COURSE HE DIDN’T BECAUSE HE COULDN’T.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1502042


ok so what did he have to gain by this? money? status? he knew his claims endangered his life. did he do it so we would be worshiping him 2000 years later? was it like an episode of nazarene punk'd or something? ok well once again you could apply this logic to every aspect of the bible due to authors sharing a common goal here. to claim occams razor is an assumption that everyone would think like you. there has to be a desire for deceit. if not then this is not the easiest path to the result by far. nor is it the path to the result of the most common sense. only in some minds. so it is a theory at best.

so we would have to exclude the bibly all together here. if you truly claim it is a hoax. then try this one. lets throw the testimonium flavianum out there. how do you answer it?

keep in mind this man was an apologetic and a roman. desire would be to see Jesus as a hoax.

3.3 Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man; for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the jewish people and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ. And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day.[27]
 Quoting: malfunkshun007


Oh, btw Lazarus did it as a repayment for Jesus cleansing his sisters filthy reputation. Apparently you need to talk to some real theologians.
wildhoney

User ID: 1486952
Spain
12/20/2011 05:32 PM

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Re: Scientists say Turin Shroud is supernatural - Brand-new research from Italy
You could have tried to say it was demonic possession..thats what they said didnt they? or that it was magik and parlor tricks? but there comes a point when one has to say

ooopsss..maybe its all true huh?

Last Edited by wildhoney on 12/20/2011 05:33 PM
Matthew 16>18
And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it..
Peter was crucified..on Vatican Hill

"Thou shalt not kill" does not apply to murder of one's own kind only, but to all living beings; and this Commandment was inscribed in the human breast long before it was proclaimed from Sinai. ~Leo Tolstoy


You have heard that it was said, "You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy."
But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have?

..Immanuel ,The Christ (Sermon Of The Mount)


“WHAT YOU DO TO OTHERS YOU DO TO YOURSELF FOR THAT IS THE LAW..AND THE PROFIT"

..)

Preach the Gospel at all times..and when necessary use words..

St.Francis Of Assisi..

Dont look at where the finger is pointing..but at WHO is doing the pointing


wildhoney14@yahoo.com

[link to www.google.ca]

Be part of the re evolution of the Spirit..say yes to peace and love..be called child of God

Inherit the Kingdom

...Time of the Angels..


oh and PLEASE STOP SENDING ME SPAM FROM AFRICA..thank you :)
Prime Merlinian
User ID: 7449198
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12/20/2011 05:33 PM
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Re: Scientists say Turin Shroud is supernatural - Brand-new research from Italy
At the end of the day this latest research proves nothing.

They are saying that the only way they only way they found to replicate the image was by using methods not available when the shroud image was believed to have been created. Therefore they say this indicates that the shourd image was created by a supernatural event. At best this conclusion is nothing more than a guess.
schiehallion

User ID: 7455356
United Kingdom
12/20/2011 05:33 PM

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Re: Scientists say Turin Shroud is supernatural - Brand-new research from Italy
'I am with you - always'

He never wasted a single word

The doubters only need to go into meditation and read His pages from the Book of Life
Or.. read the Aquarian Gospel, which is how this book was written

A further line of evidence comes from the watermarks on the Shroud, they show how it must have been folded for storage in a pot. The folding pattern shows that the pot used was the type in use in the 1st century. Later pots would have meant a different fold pattern.
scottish, british, european but first of all Human. Even this is not true. I am Spirit appearing to be solid, just like all life everywhere
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 893880
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12/20/2011 05:37 PM
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Re: Scientists say Turin Shroud is supernatural - Brand-new research from Italy
...


It's all smoke and mirrors -- diversion tactics. Stick to the "aliens did it" argument. It's the best one you mockers have. Lol.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 893880


You look for "magic" and the "supernatural" to explain things we can now do on our own, and I'm the mocker?

Pull up your pants people, it's getting pretty deep in here.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1502042


So explain it champ.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 893880


Name one of the "miracles" and I will most definitely give you an explanation using modern technology and common sense, along with a bit of Occam's Razor. I did this a bit already, earlier on this page...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1502042


Assuming middle ages forgery: How was a photonegative 3D image created that is only 1 or two microfibers deep in the linen? How was this done if there is no traceable paint, pigment, or stain? Why is the Shroud of Turin the only example of this type of imaging in the world? Maybe because it was a one-of-a-kind event.
.
Anonymous Coward
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12/20/2011 05:41 PM
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Re: Scientists say Turin Shroud is supernatural - Brand-new research from Italy
It is holographic.

ET technology thousands, if not millions, of year ahead of us.
Anonymous Coward
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12/20/2011 05:43 PM
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Re: Scientists say Turin Shroud is supernatural - Brand-new research from Italy
No One Can Explain Shroud of Turin Pictures of Jesus

"I must admit, with some embarrassment, that until a few years ago I knew nothing about the Shroud of Turin. And when I first did read about it, while on a flight to Miami, I laughed out loud, something I rarely do alone in the company of strangers.

Starting in 2003, new evidence began to appear in secular, peer-reviewed, scientific journals that supported the Shroud of Turin's authenticity. From these journals we learn that the outermost fibers of the cloth are coated with a layer of starch fractions and various saccharides. In places, the coating has turned into a caramel-like substance, thus forming the images. This suggests a chemical reaction took place. We learn, also, of a faint second image of the face on the backside of the cloth. The second face supports the idea of a chemical reaction and adds more proof that the image is not a work of art or a photograph. And in 2005, we learned that the carbon 14 dating was flawed. In fact we learned that the cloth could very well be 2000 years old..."

[link to www.shroudstory.com]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 7449198
New Zealand
12/20/2011 05:45 PM
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Re: Scientists say Turin Shroud is supernatural - Brand-new research from Italy
A further line of evidence comes from the watermarks on the Shroud, they show how it must have been folded for storage in a pot. The folding pattern shows that the pot used was the type in use in the 1st century. Later pots would have meant a different fold pattern.
 Quoting: schiehallion


Another interesting point is that the shroud correctly shows that the nails were driven through the guy's wrists and not through the palms of his hands as commonly depicted.

Of course this does not prove the shroud's authenticity. All it means is that either the shroud is real, or it was made by a very astute forger.
Anonymous Coward
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12/20/2011 05:46 PM
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Re: Scientists say Turin Shroud is supernatural - Brand-new research from Italy
No One Can Explain Shroud of Turin Pictures of Jesus

"I must admit, with some embarrassment, that until a few years ago I knew nothing about the Shroud of Turin. And when I first did read about it, while on a flight to Miami, I laughed out loud, something I rarely do alone in the company of strangers.

Starting in 2003, new evidence began to appear in secular, peer-reviewed, scientific journals that supported the Shroud of Turin's authenticity. From these journals we learn that the outermost fibers of the cloth are coated with a layer of starch fractions and various saccharides. In places, the coating has turned into a caramel-like substance, thus forming the images. This suggests a chemical reaction took place. We learn, also, of a faint second image of the face on the backside of the cloth. The second face supports the idea of a chemical reaction and adds more proof that the image is not a work of art or a photograph. And in 2005, we learned that the carbon 14 dating was flawed. In fact we learned that the cloth could very well be 2000 years old..."

[link to www.shroudstory.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1537952


^^^This^^^

Thank you for the link.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 7444751
United Kingdom
12/20/2011 05:56 PM
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Re: Scientists say Turin Shroud is supernatural - Brand-new research from Italy
One of the Sturp team, Barrie Swartze, went there expecting to look at the shroud, declare it a fake and go home.

30 years later, he says that he sees no other explanation than the shroud is the burial cloth of Jesus Christ.

Even more freaky? Barrie is Jewish.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1509906


No shit?

Who knew?

cruise
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1502042
United States
12/20/2011 06:05 PM
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Re: Scientists say Turin Shroud is supernatural - Brand-new research from Italy
You could have tried to say it was demonic possession..thats what they said didnt they? or that it was magik and parlor tricks? but there comes a point when one has to say

ooopsss..maybe its all true huh?
 Quoting: wildhoney


Uh... No, the research was done at Pavia University. A religious institute. Propaganda much?

This is like taking L. Ron Hubbards word for it that scientology is real because he funded research on his material, conducted by his followers.

At any rate, I've grown tired of talking to the same 4 people about their ridiculous psuedoscience conducted by extremely biased religious researchers in Italy.
Skin Suit

User ID: 4280163
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12/20/2011 06:08 PM

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Re: Scientists say Turin Shroud is supernatural - Brand-new research from Italy
But He says He will come as a thief in the night

I.e. we wont know He is here I think

A thief in the night is not seen
 Quoting: wildhoney




he did come as a thief in the night, he took my bloody stereo system last weekend.
wildhoney

User ID: 1486952
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12/20/2011 06:09 PM

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Re: Scientists say Turin Shroud is supernatural - Brand-new research from Italy
You could have tried to say it was demonic possession..thats what they said didnt they? or that it was magik and parlor tricks? but there comes a point when one has to say

ooopsss..maybe its all true huh?
 Quoting: wildhoney


Uh... No, the research was done at Pavia University. A religious institute. Propaganda much?

This is like taking L. Ron Hubbards word for it that scientology is real because he funded research on his material, conducted by his followers.

At any rate, I've grown tired of talking to the same 4 people about their ridiculous psuedoscience conducted by extremely biased religious researchers in Italy.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1502042


again you are ignoring the fact that many of the scientists that investigated the shroud throughout the years were not Christians
Matthew 16>18
And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it..
Peter was crucified..on Vatican Hill

"Thou shalt not kill" does not apply to murder of one's own kind only, but to all living beings; and this Commandment was inscribed in the human breast long before it was proclaimed from Sinai. ~Leo Tolstoy


You have heard that it was said, "You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy."
But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have?

..Immanuel ,The Christ (Sermon Of The Mount)


“WHAT YOU DO TO OTHERS YOU DO TO YOURSELF FOR THAT IS THE LAW..AND THE PROFIT"

..)

Preach the Gospel at all times..and when necessary use words..

St.Francis Of Assisi..

Dont look at where the finger is pointing..but at WHO is doing the pointing


wildhoney14@yahoo.com

[link to www.google.ca]

Be part of the re evolution of the Spirit..say yes to peace and love..be called child of God

Inherit the Kingdom

...Time of the Angels..


oh and PLEASE STOP SENDING ME SPAM FROM AFRICA..thank you :)
wildhoney

User ID: 1486952
Spain
12/20/2011 06:11 PM

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Re: Scientists say Turin Shroud is supernatural - Brand-new research from Italy
the forensic evidence alone is imo absolutely staggering

and as I said previously..this evidence was not noticeable till recently when technology enabled it to be so
Matthew 16>18
And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it..
Peter was crucified..on Vatican Hill

"Thou shalt not kill" does not apply to murder of one's own kind only, but to all living beings; and this Commandment was inscribed in the human breast long before it was proclaimed from Sinai. ~Leo Tolstoy


You have heard that it was said, "You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy."
But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have?

..Immanuel ,The Christ (Sermon Of The Mount)


“WHAT YOU DO TO OTHERS YOU DO TO YOURSELF FOR THAT IS THE LAW..AND THE PROFIT"

..)

Preach the Gospel at all times..and when necessary use words..

St.Francis Of Assisi..

Dont look at where the finger is pointing..but at WHO is doing the pointing


wildhoney14@yahoo.com

[link to www.google.ca]

Be part of the re evolution of the Spirit..say yes to peace and love..be called child of God

Inherit the Kingdom

...Time of the Angels..


oh and PLEASE STOP SENDING ME SPAM FROM AFRICA..thank you :)
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 742532
New Zealand
12/20/2011 06:12 PM
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Re: Scientists say Turin Shroud is supernatural - Brand-new research from Italy
I have got a few words:

Catholics-money-bribe

Let's make it a shroud of urine!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 972619

LOL!So true.
Here's the probable real explanation, hastily googled and copy and pasted..............
Originally Turin Shroud: In Whose Image? (1994), this was Lynn and Clive's first joint book, marking the start of their writing career. Now extensively updated and revised (2006), it has come full circle. Although always presenting compelling circumstantial evidence to link the alleged Holy Shroud of Turin with Leonardo da Vinci, at long last they present the first unassailable concrete evidence. There is no doubt at all now that da Vinci was involved with the Shroud.

(To those who inevitably argue that the Shroud was around - in France a hundred or so years before the Florentine master was even born - the answer is simply that there was a 'Holy Shroud' doing the rounds then, but judging by the contemporary accounts, it was not the same one as today's, Leonardo's brilliant fake.)

Lynn and Clive, together with Keith Prince, were the first researchers to publish the results of their experiments to reproduce all the so-called 'miraculous' characteristics of the Shroud, which even the remaining believers acknowledge 'behaves like a photograph'.

They succeeded beyond their wildest dreams - not only in creating totally Shroud-like images using a very basic pin-hole camera, but they discovered that the expert faker behind it was none other than Leonardo da Vinci, who used his own face as model for Christ.

(So therefore, according to Lynn and Clive, the Shroud is really a 500-year-old photograph of Leonardo da Vinci...)

A known joker, conjuror and illusionist, and a Church-hating heretic - besides being fascinated by what we would call photography, building his own camera obscura - he had the means, opportunity and motive to create this extraordinary work.
Anonymous Coward
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United States
12/20/2011 06:12 PM
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Re: Scientists say Turin Shroud is supernatural - Brand-new research from Italy
No One Can Explain Shroud of Turin Pictures of Jesus

"I must admit, with some embarrassment, that until a few years ago I knew nothing about the Shroud of Turin. And when I first did read about it, while on a flight to Miami, I laughed out loud, something I rarely do alone in the company of strangers.

Starting in 2003, new evidence began to appear in secular, peer-reviewed, scientific journals that supported the Shroud of Turin's authenticity. From these journals we learn that the outermost fibers of the cloth are coated with a layer of starch fractions and various saccharides. In places, the coating has turned into a caramel-like substance, thus forming the images. This suggests a chemical reaction took place. We learn, also, of a faint second image of the face on the backside of the cloth. The second face supports the idea of a chemical reaction and adds more proof that the image is not a work of art or a photograph. And in 2005, we learned that the carbon 14 dating was flawed. In fact we learned that the cloth could very well be 2000 years old..."

[link to www.shroudstory.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1537952


^^^This^^^

Thank you for the link.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 893880


Sure, glad to share. I posted this here a couple of years ago after someone started another thread about the shroud. I decided I needed to do some research on the topic and not just say "It is" or "It is not" based on my feelings rather on the current research. I simply find it fascinating. I am a believer and follower of Yeshua, but my opinion or faith is not part of the research shown in the link. "Science" is always right when it supports an unbeliever's point of view. When it points to the contrary, it will always be mocked and called "pseudo-science", regardless of who does the research.
wildhoney

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Spain
12/20/2011 06:13 PM

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Re: Scientists say Turin Shroud is supernatural - Brand-new research from Italy
they took the cloth and analized it forensically..independent from any religious bias..based on what they found they determined the cause of suffering and death of the man of the Shroud.

and it coincided allegedly 100% with the Gospels
Matthew 16>18
And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it..
Peter was crucified..on Vatican Hill

"Thou shalt not kill" does not apply to murder of one's own kind only, but to all living beings; and this Commandment was inscribed in the human breast long before it was proclaimed from Sinai. ~Leo Tolstoy


You have heard that it was said, "You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy."
But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have?

..Immanuel ,The Christ (Sermon Of The Mount)


“WHAT YOU DO TO OTHERS YOU DO TO YOURSELF FOR THAT IS THE LAW..AND THE PROFIT"

..)

Preach the Gospel at all times..and when necessary use words..

St.Francis Of Assisi..

Dont look at where the finger is pointing..but at WHO is doing the pointing


wildhoney14@yahoo.com

[link to www.google.ca]

Be part of the re evolution of the Spirit..say yes to peace and love..be called child of God

Inherit the Kingdom

...Time of the Angels..


oh and PLEASE STOP SENDING ME SPAM FROM AFRICA..thank you :)
Mr Martin

User ID: 7437501
Belgium
12/20/2011 06:14 PM

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Re: Scientists say Turin Shroud is supernatural - Brand-new research from Italy
[link to www.independent.co.uk]



Italian government scientists have claimed to have discovered evidence that a supernatural event formed the image on the Turin Shroud, believed by many to be the burial cloth of Jesus Christ.

After years of work trying to replicate the colouring on the shroud, a similar image has been created by the scientists.

However, they only managed the effect by scorching equivalent linen material with high-intensity ultra violet lasers, undermining the arguments of other research, they say, which claims the Turin Shroud is a medieval hoax.

Such technology, say researchers from the National Agency for New Technologies, Energy and Sustainable Economic Development (Enea), was far beyond the capability of medieval forgers, whom most experts have credited with making the famous relic.

"The results show that a short and intense burst of UV directional radiation can colour a linen cloth so as to reproduce many of the peculiar characteristics of the body image on the Shroud of Turin," they said.

And in case there was any doubt about the preternatural degree of energy needed to make such distinct marks, the Enea report spells it out: "This degree of power cannot be reproduced by any normal UV source built to date.
 Quoting: Tekunda

This only proves that they still dont know what techniques our for-fathers had at their disposal.

Its like accepting that they shizled the great pyramid with copper schizels and then pulled the blocks with ropes into place .
All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for GoodMen to do nothing.
wildhoney

User ID: 1486952
Spain
12/20/2011 06:15 PM

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Re: Scientists say Turin Shroud is supernatural - Brand-new research from Italy
I have got a few words:

Catholics-money-bribe

Let's make it a shroud of urine!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 972619

LOL!So true.
Here's the probable real explanation, hastily googled and copy and pasted..............
Originally Turin Shroud: In Whose Image? (1994), this was Lynn and Clive's first joint book, marking the start of their writing career. Now extensively updated and revised (2006), it has come full circle. Although always presenting compelling circumstantial evidence to link the alleged Holy Shroud of Turin with Leonardo da Vinci, at long last they present the first unassailable concrete evidence. There is no doubt at all now that da Vinci was involved with the Shroud.

(To those who inevitably argue that the Shroud was around - in France a hundred or so years before the Florentine master was even born - the answer is simply that there was a 'Holy Shroud' doing the rounds then, but judging by the contemporary accounts, it was not the same one as today's, Leonardo's brilliant fake.)

Lynn and Clive, together with Keith Prince, were the first researchers to publish the results of their experiments to reproduce all the so-called 'miraculous' characteristics of the Shroud, which even the remaining believers acknowledge 'behaves like a photograph'.

They succeeded beyond their wildest dreams - not only in creating totally Shroud-like images using a very basic pin-hole camera, but they discovered that the expert faker behind it was none other than Leonardo da Vinci, who used his own face as model for Christ.

(So therefore, according to Lynn and Clive, the Shroud is really a 500-year-old photograph of Leonardo da Vinci...)

A known joker, conjuror and illusionist, and a Church-hating heretic - besides being fascinated by what we would call photography, building his own camera obscura - he had the means, opportunity and motive to create this extraordinary work.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 742532


actually Leonardo was a deeply religious man as was Michelangelo
Matthew 16>18
And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it..
Peter was crucified..on Vatican Hill

"Thou shalt not kill" does not apply to murder of one's own kind only, but to all living beings; and this Commandment was inscribed in the human breast long before it was proclaimed from Sinai. ~Leo Tolstoy


You have heard that it was said, "You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy."
But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have?

..Immanuel ,The Christ (Sermon Of The Mount)


“WHAT YOU DO TO OTHERS YOU DO TO YOURSELF FOR THAT IS THE LAW..AND THE PROFIT"

..)

Preach the Gospel at all times..and when necessary use words..

St.Francis Of Assisi..

Dont look at where the finger is pointing..but at WHO is doing the pointing


wildhoney14@yahoo.com

[link to www.google.ca]

Be part of the re evolution of the Spirit..say yes to peace and love..be called child of God

Inherit the Kingdom

...Time of the Angels..


oh and PLEASE STOP SENDING ME SPAM FROM AFRICA..thank you :)
wildhoney

User ID: 1486952
Spain
12/20/2011 06:18 PM

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Re: Scientists say Turin Shroud is supernatural - Brand-new research from Italy
I have got a few words:

Catholics-money-bribe

Let's make it a shroud of urine!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 972619

LOL!So true.
Here's the probable real explanation, hastily googled and copy and pasted..............
Originally Turin Shroud: In Whose Image? (1994), this was Lynn and Clive's first joint book, marking the start of their writing career. Now extensively updated and revised (2006), it has come full circle. Although always presenting compelling circumstantial evidence to link the alleged Holy Shroud of Turin with Leonardo da Vinci, at long last they present the first unassailable concrete evidence. There is no doubt at all now that da Vinci was involved with the Shroud.

(To those who inevitably argue that the Shroud was around - in France a hundred or so years before the Florentine master was even born - the answer is simply that there was a 'Holy Shroud' doing the rounds then, but judging by the contemporary accounts, it was not the same one as today's, Leonardo's brilliant fake.)

Lynn and Clive, together with Keith Prince, were the first researchers to publish the results of their experiments to reproduce all the so-called 'miraculous' characteristics of the Shroud, which even the remaining believers acknowledge 'behaves like a photograph'.

They succeeded beyond their wildest dreams - not only in creating totally Shroud-like images using a very basic pin-hole camera, but they discovered that the expert faker behind it was none other than Leonardo da Vinci, who used his own face as model for Christ.

(So therefore, according to Lynn and Clive, the Shroud is really a 500-year-old photograph of Leonardo da Vinci...)

A known joker, conjuror and illusionist, and a Church-hating heretic - besides being fascinated by what we would call photography, building his own camera obscura - he had the means, opportunity and motive to create this extraordinary work.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 742532


You also forget the fact that
1.the marks
2.the blood type

coincide allegedly with the Sudariumof Oviedo..which can be traced reportedly back to the first century..therfore seemingly timing also the Shroud to the first century
Matthew 16>18
And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it..
Peter was crucified..on Vatican Hill

"Thou shalt not kill" does not apply to murder of one's own kind only, but to all living beings; and this Commandment was inscribed in the human breast long before it was proclaimed from Sinai. ~Leo Tolstoy


You have heard that it was said, "You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy."
But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have?

..Immanuel ,The Christ (Sermon Of The Mount)


“WHAT YOU DO TO OTHERS YOU DO TO YOURSELF FOR THAT IS THE LAW..AND THE PROFIT"

..)

Preach the Gospel at all times..and when necessary use words..

St.Francis Of Assisi..

Dont look at where the finger is pointing..but at WHO is doing the pointing


wildhoney14@yahoo.com

[link to www.google.ca]

Be part of the re evolution of the Spirit..say yes to peace and love..be called child of God

Inherit the Kingdom

...Time of the Angels..


oh and PLEASE STOP SENDING ME SPAM FROM AFRICA..thank you :)

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