Godlike Productions - Discussion Forum
Users Online Now: 1,681 (Who's On?)Visitors Today: 404,973
Pageviews Today: 671,412Threads Today: 212Posts Today: 4,055
08:23 AM


Rate this Thread

Absolute BS Crap Reasonable Nice Amazing
 

Meditations on 2001 A Space Odyssey's "Black Monolith"

 
houseofxendotwordpres​s
User ID: 5651730
United States
12/25/2011 01:54 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Meditations on 2001 A Space Odyssey's "Black Monolith"
marble represented exactly what it was, a massive slab of obviousness, something that could not be ignored if one was consciously present within the room. however, it represented something more. it hypothetically put forward how we evolved from apes to humans, as despite it being so obvious, one does have to be consciously aware to detect a change in one's environment -- to detect a spontaneous black slab that appears out of nowhere. what I think kubrick may have been illustrating was how we transitioned from a lesser state of awareness, into something more. from a primal and survival-based intelligence level, they live in the world and see it as they have always seen it. then, one day, they see something in a way which they cannot describe. a way which captivates them in a manner which supercedes all that in the background. the apes have their first intelligently conscious moment. the black slab was so sudden and so out-of-nowhere, that there was no way to not perceive it with intense reactional response, elevating one's self from a lower conscious level to realize human potential. to realize that one can use objects as weapons. to interact with the world in an evolutionary manner. kubrick was describing the birth of conscious intelligent life.

just as the apes, the bones-as-a-weapon realization and the rocky, wild and unconquered landscape acted as an allegory for where conscious awareness found itself, the ending "room" is the same. a fully civilized, cultured man surrounded by pleasant bright white light in an ordered and structured room. Whereas before the sun was the only source of light, now the source is man-made. The world in which the apes found themselves was completely out of their control and foreign, whereas the room the 'futureman' finds himself within is completely of his (in the species sense) own creation and understanding.

just as before, this man sees a black slab appear out of nowhere. he chases it around the room, getting older and older as he does. as before, the black slab represents something in which to call attention to and inspire evolutionary reaction. however, as a being already evolved, it is perplexing to understand it's context in this room. the man is chasing the meaning to his own life, from a grander perspective. inspiration personified as a cold metallic slab. the futureman is chasing this until he dies, but with every chase, he finds himself ending up at a goal, with no memory of how he found himself there. his only memory was standing at his previous position, looking out at the end-goal. then he finds himself at the end-goal, only to not have actually ended anything. ironically, he finds himself once again on the chase, immediately focusing on the end-goal, until his physical body runs out of life. yet even on his deathbed, at the very last moment, with his very last ounce of strength, the futureman sees this black slab once more and MUST reach out to it, must reach the end-goal, always searching.

this man represents what we are as a human species at the present moment, 1% away from complete control, but it always seemingly escapes it. kubrick's only explanation is indirect, as he eventually zooms into the black slab and transitions into space. we live on earth, we look at space, a massive beautiful black slab, and it drives us. space isn't the actual root drive of humanity, it just represents something that makes us realize our own subjectivity and scale. something so massive, so incomprehensible -- it's existence is a symbol for human ambition. like the black slab, unexplainable, yet we must understand. as illustrated in the final room though, the pursuit will kill us and only in our last moment will we ever feel complete, as death is the only end-goal that can be reached with complete satisifaction. fading once again back into the chaotic world which we so often try to pretend doesn't exist, so we build white rooms of cutting edge architecture to hide us from the scary black space, representing the majority of existence which we do not have wrapped around our finger. we hide from chaos and disorder. but it always exists. death exists, space exists and everything beyond our perspective exists and it is out of our control, and as the apes did in the beginning of the film, we go insane at these realizations, just as the futureman drove himself to death in pursuit of an explanation for what is inherently unexplainable and chaotic, all order nothing but one flower in a field of trillions of weeds, which are slowly creeping in.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 5651730
United States
12/25/2011 02:06 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Meditations on 2001 A Space Odyssey's "Black Monolith"
bump
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 7693142
United Kingdom
12/25/2011 02:08 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Meditations on 2001 A Space Odyssey's "Black Monolith"
Aaaaaaaaaargh!

Wall of text alert!

scream
pur1138
User ID: 7703290
United States
12/25/2011 02:43 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Meditations on 2001 A Space Odyssey's "Black Monolith"
VERY well done OP.

Trippy and deep.


A little capsule of Cool
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 5651730
United States
12/25/2011 05:42 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Meditations on 2001 A Space Odyssey's "Black Monolith"
VERY well done OP.

Trippy and deep.


A little capsule of Cool
 Quoting: pur1138 7703290


thank you! i posted this one other place and while they dug what i was saying they had this to say, and this is my response::

"...then the fact that it has the same effect on the people in the future is something to take into account and means its something greater than just apes evolution into humans or whatever..."
I'm saying, through the metaphor of something obvious which cannot go unobserved, symbolizing what drives change, ambition and evolution, it IS the same. The apes go insane to the monolith initially and so does the futurehuman -- the difference is the futurehuman is civilized and represents what the apes started so many years ago by interacting/responding/realizing weaponry and culminated in what we might define as the perfect man -- obviously a personification but nonetheless...

the futureman still went insane and Kubrick directly mocks this when the old man is reaching out for the monolith even on his deathbed, when obviously reaching out will not get him any closer to it, as he's confined to his (death)bed. Just as the monkeys responded by going crazy and realizing a bone to be a weapon much like they realized the monolith to be 'something different', the futureman responds by trying to focus as much as possible on the 'unknown difference' (to realize the meaning of life / nirvana / the answer / perfection) until before he knows it he has aged. The way this scene is shot, never directly aging but only seeing it almost like a slideshow, symbolizes how he has no idea how he let himself get away with chasing the impossible for so long.

i'm saying that i think it tries to answer the question 'where do we go from here' by looking at where we came from and then analyzing our relationship with something very meta-existence -- Artificial Intelligence (HAL personifying all AI represents)

this is something different entirely though:
After I wrote my initial post up I really thought of the final scene as how we encounter death, like the newborn alien baby symbolizing the final peace you feel just before passing, and then looking over the earth like you're looking back over memories, but now you can only observe in reserved tranquility rather than act, the ultimate heaven for the human species as we've done so much and that's why I think it's symbolized as a beautifully peaceful golden intelligent fetus rather than something wrought with flaws. it's like a love letter to humanity or something.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 961432
United States
12/25/2011 05:44 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Meditations on 2001 A Space Odyssey's "Black Monolith"
Dood the universe is like a tree and we are like branches. Some of us bear fruit and make baby trees from the seeds and some of us are cut off and used as firewood.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 5651730
United States
12/25/2011 05:57 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Meditations on 2001 A Space Odyssey's "Black Monolith"
Dood the universe is like a tree and we are like branches. Some of us bear fruit and make baby trees from the seeds and some of us are cut off and used as firewood.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 961432


LOL wait so is this one tree that just gets a few of it's branches cut off for firewood while the fruit-bearing branches are sorta just random kept on with no sense of aesthetics? do they make it so that the tree is divided up evenly, half the branches are fruit-bearing and half is used as firewood, and if so, would they make it so that one side is completely firewood and the other is fruit-bearing?

or are there multiple trees? does that mean there are multiple universes? will another universe's fruit bear a tree with seeds that will be blown about in the wind to another universe's tree to intermingle with their seeds? will they have mutant "baby trees"? is this how people were formed?
litedreamer
User ID: 7714450
United States
12/25/2011 06:59 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Meditations on 2001 A Space Odyssey's "Black Monolith"
We take comfort in meditating on the Monolith
because it stands a short distance
from where our spirit glows in stasis.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 5651730
United States
12/25/2011 07:35 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Meditations on 2001 A Space Odyssey's "Black Monolith"
^
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 5331184
United States
12/25/2011 08:28 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Meditations on 2001 A Space Odyssey's "Black Monolith"
I remember when I was a kid, and I'd sit and look at objects and wonder how it was so straight. I'd look at it from all angles and marvel at it. I'd run my hands across it, ect.

So when I saw that scene from 2001 with those apes marveling at the monolith, it was something I could identify with.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 7505081
United States
12/25/2011 08:57 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Meditations on 2001 A Space Odyssey's "Black Monolith"
VERY well done OP.

Trippy and deep.


A little capsule of Cool
 Quoting: pur1138 7703290


thank you! i posted this one other place and while they dug what i was saying they had this to say, and this is my response::

"...then the fact that it has the same effect on the people in the future is something to take into account and means its something greater than just apes evolution into humans or whatever..."
I'm saying, through the metaphor of something obvious which cannot go unobserved, symbolizing what drives change, ambition and evolution, it IS the same. The apes go insane to the monolith initially and so does the futurehuman -- the difference is the futurehuman is civilized and represents what the apes started so many years ago by interacting/responding/realizing weaponry and culminated in what we might define as the perfect man -- obviously a personification but nonetheless...

the futureman still went insane and Kubrick directly mocks this when the old man is reaching out for the monolith even on his deathbed, when obviously reaching out will not get him any closer to it, as he's confined to his (death)bed. Just as the monkeys responded by going crazy and realizing a bone to be a weapon much like they realized the monolith to be 'something different', the futureman responds by trying to focus as much as possible on the 'unknown difference' (to realize the meaning of life / nirvana / the answer / perfection) until before he knows it he has aged. The way this scene is shot, never directly aging but only seeing it almost like a slideshow, symbolizes how he has no idea how he let himself get away with chasing the impossible for so long.

i'm saying that i think it tries to answer the question 'where do we go from here' by looking at where we came from and then analyzing our relationship with something very meta-existence -- Artificial Intelligence (HAL personifying all AI represents)

this is something different entirely though:
After I wrote my initial post up I really thought of the final scene as how we encounter death, like the newborn alien baby symbolizing the final peace you feel just before passing, and then looking over the earth like you're looking back over memories, but now you can only observe in reserved tranquility rather than act, the ultimate heaven for the human species as we've done so much and that's why I think it's symbolized as a beautifully peaceful golden intelligent fetus rather than something wrought with flaws. it's like a love letter to humanity or something.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5651730




bsflagbsflagbsflag
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 5651730
United States
12/25/2011 09:01 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Meditations on 2001 A Space Odyssey's "Black Monolith"
how could a subjective interpretation be bullshit? what, it isn't authentically my opinion?
pur1138
User ID: 4245828
United States
12/25/2011 09:18 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Meditations on 2001 A Space Odyssey's "Black Monolith"
how could a subjective interpretation be bullshit? what, it isn't authentically my opinion?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5651730


HAHA!!

Don't fret OP, someone has to do it!

Builders and tearers down. Sitters and doers. Thieves and saints. Thinkers and automatons.

All part of the incredible Experience.
All allowed.
All contributing to the Whole.

It's All Good.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 5651730
United States
12/26/2011 07:39 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Meditations on 2001 A Space Odyssey's "Black Monolith"
true
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 7705251
Australia
12/26/2011 07:40 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Meditations on 2001 A Space Odyssey's "Black Monolith"
Has anyone compared it to the Kaaba black cube?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 5331184
United States
12/26/2011 08:11 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Meditations on 2001 A Space Odyssey's "Black Monolith"
You know, looking at the surface of a pond, or a snowflake, or a crystal and marveling at it might have the same effect of a monolith. Even the sun and the moon. But the monolith thing was cool and it had an extra terrestrial feeling to it.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 5651730
United States
12/26/2011 08:14 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Meditations on 2001 A Space Odyssey's "Black Monolith"
The other thing is that they said there was a radio frequency pointing towards jupiter, on the moon one. See, I think this confirms the idea of it representing drive, because it's like saying "that's where we want to be, Jupiter", and sure enough that's where the movie ends up going
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 5651730
United States
12/26/2011 06:36 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Meditations on 2001 A Space Odyssey's "Black Monolith"
bump
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 5651730
United States
12/27/2011 08:57 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Meditations on 2001 A Space Odyssey's "Black Monolith"
bump
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5651730
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 7706622
Brazil
12/27/2011 09:10 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Meditations on 2001 A Space Odyssey's "Black Monolith"
There's already too much meditation about that:
Thread: 2001 & 2010 Space Odyssey/TRON UPDATE revelations
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 7706622
Brazil
12/27/2011 09:17 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Meditations on 2001 A Space Odyssey's "Black Monolith"
When and IF you finish reading those 3 pages, then you can start this other topic:
Thread: EYES WIDE SHUT: Stanley Kubrick Murdered for Exposing Illuminati Secrets? (Page 3)
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 7706622
Brazil
12/27/2011 09:18 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Meditations on 2001 A Space Odyssey's "Black Monolith"
Has anyone compared it to the Kaaba black cube?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 7705251


Yes.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 5651730
United States
12/27/2011 10:28 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Meditations on 2001 A Space Odyssey's "Black Monolith"
I was more looking at it from what he was trying to convey from an artistic perspective than a "literal hidden message" perspective.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 7092995
United States
12/27/2011 10:37 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Meditations on 2001 A Space Odyssey's "Black Monolith"
I think Arthur Clarke meant for it to be a simple representation.
When the early humans found it, it was there to give them the next step in their development.

When it was discovered buried on the moon, it was there to give mankind it's next technological advance and discovery.

When Dave Bowman encountered it, it was to give the worthy man the next step in spiritual development.

The ratios of the size of the monolith are not lost on us - 1 x 4 x 9

The square root of the first three integers 1, 2, 3 !
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 7049086
United States
12/27/2011 10:42 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Meditations on 2001 A Space Odyssey's "Black Monolith"
the human did not evolve from the ape on this world. If we did there would be no apes. OK.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 5486281
United States
12/27/2011 10:47 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Meditations on 2001 A Space Odyssey's "Black Monolith"
Great interpretation of '2001', OP. I've been pondering the meaning of this movie since it's release.

I like your idea that space itself represents the ultimate black monolith, and that, in fear, we build structures out of light to hide from it.

I think we hide from the fact that the Universe is so ridiculously huge, so incomprehensibly big, that we realize we are far less than a grain of sand in comparison to the entire ocean!

To quote from another sci-fi work, space truly is the ultimate frontier. Each of us has an innate understanding that that is where we came from, and someday, if we are fortunate, that is where we will return. We are star-stuff, as Carl Sagan wrote.

And also I agree with the notion that the monolith represents a complete paradigm shift, not just a jump from one age to another, but a revolutionary explosion that changes everything, from primitive, feral animal to intelligent, tool-making man. And I think we are at a similar threshold, ready to make the jump from intelligent man to something else, something higher, grander, greater in every respect.

I believe everyone on this website knows a great change is coming, but has no idea what it is, and just knows it's going to be huge, like primitive primates waking up to find a great, black slab in their midst, and running their shaking fingers over it's cool smoothness.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 5651730
United States
12/27/2011 12:23 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Meditations on 2001 A Space Odyssey's "Black Monolith"
Great interpretation of '2001', OP. I've been pondering the meaning of this movie since it's release.

I like your idea that space itself represents the ultimate black monolith, and that, in fear, we build structures out of light to hide from it.

I think we hide from the fact that the Universe is so ridiculously huge, so incomprehensibly big, that we realize we are far less than a grain of sand in comparison to the entire ocean!

To quote from another sci-fi work, space truly is the ultimate frontier. Each of us has an innate understanding that that is where we came from, and someday, if we are fortunate, that is where we will return. We are star-stuff, as Carl Sagan wrote.

And also I agree with the notion that the monolith represents a complete paradigm shift, not just a jump from one age to another, but a revolutionary explosion that changes everything, from primitive, feral animal to intelligent, tool-making man. And I think we are at a similar threshold, ready to make the jump from intelligent man to something else, something higher, grander, greater in every respect.

I believe everyone on this website knows a great change is coming, but has no idea what it is, and just knows it's going to be huge, like primitive primates waking up to find a great, black slab in their midst, and running their shaking fingers over it's cool smoothness.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5486281


Excellent post/response! Love that ending paragraph! Very true!
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 5651730
United States
12/27/2011 12:25 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Meditations on 2001 A Space Odyssey's "Black Monolith"
the human did not evolve from the ape on this world. If we did there would be no apes. OK.
 Quoting: Nobody in Particular


Regardless the technicalities here, the film was made in 1968 when the theory was much younger. Regardless it's truth or fictitious nature, it's clear Kubrick was using it in the context of the film as part of an allegory for his overall message. I doubt he cares about the specifics of evolution so much as it's ability to illustrate concepts that are hard to describe literally.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 5651730
United States
12/27/2011 08:50 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Meditations on 2001 A Space Odyssey's "Black Monolith"
^^^
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 7706622
Brazil
12/28/2011 07:06 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Meditations on 2001 A Space Odyssey's "Black Monolith"
I think Arthur Clarke meant for it to be a simple representation.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 7092995


Nah, if you care to read the link I wrote you'll understand they indeed created a TETRAHEDRON made of a certain glass that looked too greenish which was very expensive, since it didn't look as well as Kubrick imagined they had to change it and did 14 square monoliths made of wood and painted black with spray, handled with gloves not to insert a single fingerprint and used special chambers.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 5651730
United States
12/28/2011 11:36 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Meditations on 2001 A Space Odyssey's "Black Monolith"
^^^That's wild





GLP