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12 USC 411, "...Federal reserve notes shall be redeemed for lawful money on demand..."

 
Anonymous Coward
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01/09/2012 08:42 PM
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Re: 12 USC 411, "...Federal reserve notes shall be redeemed for lawful money on demand..."
I have been claiming lawful money for the last 6 month(just about when I found out about it). I'm a member of a credit union and they don't even blink when I make my demand on the back of my checks.

I try to tell others about this but their to conditioned not to follow through with it..oh well..
Anonymous Coward
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01/09/2012 09:14 PM
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Anyone know what a postal money order units or designation???
Anonymous Coward
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01/09/2012 09:39 PM
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Re: 12 USC 411, "...Federal reserve notes shall be redeemed for lawful money on demand..."
Very interesting! Thanks. Yet, as the previous poster indicated that he somewho writes on transactions for lawful money, is that basically a waste of time given this example? Thanks again!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1003364


No this is how they scan for people to audit.
Anonymous Coward
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01/09/2012 10:13 PM
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Re: 12 USC 411, "...Federal reserve notes shall be redeemed for lawful money on demand..."
Here it is:

[link to books.google.com]
seeker2

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01/09/2012 11:21 PM
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OP here is a link to a thread on GLP that goes into depth on the subject of lawful money and redeeming FRN for lawful money.

Thread: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul

sk
Anonymous Coward
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11/15/2012 10:03 PM
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Re: 12 USC 411, "...Federal reserve notes shall be redeemed for lawful money on demand..."
bump
Anonymous Coward
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11/29/2012 02:56 PM
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Re: 12 USC 411, "...Federal reserve notes shall be redeemed for lawful money on demand..."
Nobody has explained why endorsing a check as "lawful money" excuses one from income taxes. That is just a bunch of woo-woo wishful thinking and quiet frankly, a waste of the IRS's time (for which we all pay) in chasing such whackos. Save us all some tax dollars and stop this nonsense!rant
David Merrill
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11/30/2012 12:17 AM
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Re: 12 USC 411, "...Federal reserve notes shall be redeemed for lawful money on demand..."
"Nobody has explained why endorsing a check as "lawful money" excuses one from income taxes. That is just a bunch of woo-woo wishful thinking and quiet frankly, a waste of the IRS's time (for which we all pay) in chasing such whackos. Save us all some tax dollars and stop this nonsense!"


It is too late. People are discovering that this is the remedy written into the 1913 Federal Reserve Act.

Think about it!

Congress wrote the remedy from elastic currency into the Act that legalized elastic currency.

If you do not want to help abolish the Fed that is your deal. I think that protecting criminal syndicalism (legalizing fractional lending) is you being on the losing side of an epic battle.



Regards,

David Merrill.
David Merrill
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12/18/2012 08:47 AM
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Re: 12 USC 411, "...Federal reserve notes shall be redeemed for lawful money on demand..."
One suitor reported:

I can only testify regarding my own affairs. My latest experience:


Ten checking accounts were closed on Monday this past week by way of Notice to Quit. Meaning the banking agreement says they can Quit for any cause.

So we paid the bank a visit to see if we could determine the reasoning for the Notice. It turns out that the bank had been doing some recent accounting of the books and it turns out that they were not very pleased to find out that their front line manager had not picked up on the fact that we had been making a DEMAND FOR LAWFUL MONEY PER 12USC411 regarding all instruments touching said accounts.

From what we gleaned from said Manager he and his staff were reamed and people lost their jobs. I BELIEVE that said bank was upon the practice of Fractional Reserve Lending touching instruments that were Redeemed. As such, said bank was in desperate need of balancing the counterfeit book entries.

So today we decided to walk in and with draw 9.5k because you know - WHY NOT, right? So as usual we made a demand for lawful money on the withdrawal ticket - to wit:


1. The teller upon RECOGNIZING said disclaimer launched herself from her seat and quickly moved to the banking managers office; and,

2. The banking manager, upon being awakened, [I jest] asked us to enter his office; and,

3. We had a discussion whereupon we informed him that we had informed his predecessor that we intend to remain without the Federal Reserve Districts and Cities and we do not use Federal Reserve Credit; and,

4. he informed us that we could not use that disclaimer; and,

5. not to be egotistical but I informed him that he was NOT going to give us legal advice as we did not ask for it and that he was going to accept our disclaimer as this was the business he chose and he was going to take the good with the bad and we were not going to be told by some banking manager how to sign a record; and,

6. he said that his bosses told him he was not to accept any withdrawal or check with that disclaimer to which I said, Call Legal now.; and,

7. He called and put us on speaker phone; and,

8. Unbelievably we entered into a three-way conversation - usually legal will only speak to their client; and,

9. I asked if they were trying to FORCE account holders to execute a Record without legal capacity; and,

10. I asked if they were aware of Art I - Sec 10 and were they trying to make a policy that would impair the obligation of an existing contract?; and,

11. In deadpan voice, counsel said, Do it!; and,

12. We got a huge grin on our faces and said manager went and counted out the hundreds; and,

13 Afterwards, he invited us back into his office and said he was directed to ensure that the accounts closed; and,

14. It was obvious to everyone in the room that said manager had recently gotten his rear end chewed on extensively; and,


DON'T TELL ME that something IS a certain way. Maybe for you, but not for me. I have spoken to banking managers in the past five years and without exception they ALL know what I am up to. In fact, I have had some very interesting responses.

Regarding the IRS we have now had CONSISTENT returns of 100 percent even with with-holdings returned - even though we did not ask for them. We tried to GIFT the withholdings - but they were returned to us 100%. So today we went to another bank and opened up all new accounts - and the manager just smiled as we executed the Agreement in FULL DISCLAIMER.

I can remember the first time I walked up to a teller to cash a check drawn on that bank with the following disclaimers:

NAME OF TRUST COMPANY, by its Agent, Me, absent individual capacity, absent individual liability assumed, absent surety, absent accommodation, absent recourse, without prejudice, and principally and perpetually made subject to the terms of conditions of NAME OF TRUST COMPANY and demand is made for lawful money per 12U.S.C.411: signature

6 font text - you can get this on the back of a check within the allowed space - without problem.

I thought the red/blue lights would start flashing as my heart raced - no one was there to help me or to give me words in case things did not go my way - and to my great surprise the teller said - "What the heck is all of this?" To wit, I responded, perhaps you should speak to your manager. Upon her return she said "I learn something new everyday".

Egypt is a reed shaken in the wind - but the children of the King are free.

Hopefully, my report will encourage some of you. Trust in God. But Faith absent Deeds is dead. I in every event always prayed over the event prior to attempt - the victory was mine before I left my car. I walked it out as a WITNESS to the Glory of God.
Anonymous Coward
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02/12/2013 04:46 PM
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Re: 12 USC 411, "...Federal reserve notes shall be redeemed for lawful money on demand..."
How would someone go about doing this with direct deposit??
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1018748
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02/12/2013 04:53 PM
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Re: 12 USC 411, "...Federal reserve notes shall be redeemed for lawful money on demand..."
I do it and so do many others. US Treasury notes are located on the right side of the face of all Federal Reserve Notes.

The US treasury seal is separated by the drawing of the dead president on every Federal Reserve note but the $1 and $2 bill.

if you do not record your "demand for lawful money per 12-USC 411"

You by default, are using unredeemed Federal Reserve Notes (the note on the left of the dead guy).

If you demand redemption on all accounts and transactions, you are proving the use of the US Treasury note on the Right side of every BILL.

Not rocket science, just the law!!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 7852806




I don't understand, can you explain in a little more detail? Also, have you actually gotten a physical replacement for the FRN??? If so, can you post a pic, I would be interested in seeing what it looks like. Thanks!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1003364


They actually look identical except for a few things. Real money says "US Treasury Note" instead of Federal Reserve Note at the top. Also, the serial numbers to the right of the dead President (as you look at it) are red in color vs. green. That's the only difference.
The problem is when you spend it. You will get FeRN's for change.
You should look at how to endorse your paychecks so they are deposited as real money vs. FeRNs. This is supposed to keep you from paying income tax. It's all in the codes!
 Quoting: John Donson 7813130





Uh, yea... sound like a sovereign citizen scam... try that in federal court against the irs and see just how far you get... you ready to take one for the team and let us know how it works out? Remember, this is not your game, your just an observer, what TPTB want, they will get...
Anonymous Coward
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02/12/2013 04:56 PM
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Re: 12 USC 411, "...Federal reserve notes shall be redeemed for lawful money on demand..."
sumthinup
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 7957972


Do I have to do everything for you?

[link to www.law.cornell.edu]

All that is required is a restricted endorsement on the back of any check to the effect of:

Redeemed in Lawful money
Pursuant to Title 12 USC §411
True name dba Legal name

I have a red ink stamp. Your true name is your first and middle, your “legal name” is “FIRST LAST”. Look at your drivers license. Wonder why your name is in ALL CAPS? Same on your birth certificate. Same on any notice from a court. That’s your legal name, a trust formed by the government in order to do business with you and on you.

Make copies of all your checks (front and back) with your restricted endorsement. Keep them on file, or even better, file them in a case jacket at your nearest district court. This is what all the IRS will be required to see. Lawful money is not taxable income. You have not endorsed private credit, you have not bonded your substance to the contract with the Federal Reserve.
 Quoting: John Donson 7813130


You forgot the last bit. You are going to prison for tax evasion.
nwo_watcher_911

User ID: 4520570
United States
02/12/2013 05:42 PM
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Re: 12 USC 411, "...Federal reserve notes shall be redeemed for lawful money on demand..."
One suitor reported:

I can only testify regarding my own affairs. My latest experience:


Ten checking accounts were closed on Monday this past week by way of Notice to Quit. Meaning the banking agreement says they can Quit for any cause.

So we paid the bank a visit to see if we could determine the reasoning for the Notice. It turns out that the bank had been doing some recent accounting of the books and it turns out that they were not very pleased to find out that their front line manager had not picked up on the fact that we had been making a DEMAND FOR LAWFUL MONEY PER 12USC411 regarding all instruments touching said accounts.

From what we gleaned from said Manager he and his staff were reamed and people lost their jobs. I BELIEVE that said bank was upon the practice of Fractional Reserve Lending touching instruments that were Redeemed. As such, said bank was in desperate need of balancing the counterfeit book entries.

So today we decided to walk in and with draw 9.5k because you know - WHY NOT, right? So as usual we made a demand for lawful money on the withdrawal ticket - to wit:


1. The teller upon RECOGNIZING said disclaimer launched herself from her seat and quickly moved to the banking managers office; and,

2. The banking manager, upon being awakened, [I jest] asked us to enter his office; and,

3. We had a discussion whereupon we informed him that we had informed his predecessor that we intend to remain without the Federal Reserve Districts and Cities and we do not use Federal Reserve Credit; and,

4. he informed us that we could not use that disclaimer; and,

5. not to be egotistical but I informed him that he was NOT going to give us legal advice as we did not ask for it and that he was going to accept our disclaimer as this was the business he chose and he was going to take the good with the bad and we were not going to be told by some banking manager how to sign a record; and,

6. he said that his bosses told him he was not to accept any withdrawal or check with that disclaimer to which I said, Call Legal now.; and,

7. He called and put us on speaker phone; and,

8. Unbelievably we entered into a three-way conversation - usually legal will only speak to their client; and,

9. I asked if they were trying to FORCE account holders to execute a Record without legal capacity; and,

10. I asked if they were aware of Art I - Sec 10 and were they trying to make a policy that would impair the obligation of an existing contract?; and,

11. In deadpan voice, counsel said, Do it!; and,

12. We got a huge grin on our faces and said manager went and counted out the hundreds; and,

13 Afterwards, he invited us back into his office and said he was directed to ensure that the accounts closed; and,

14. It was obvious to everyone in the room that said manager had recently gotten his rear end chewed on extensively; and,


DON'T TELL ME that something IS a certain way. Maybe for you, but not for me. I have spoken to banking managers in the past five years and without exception they ALL know what I am up to. In fact, I have had some very interesting responses.

Regarding the IRS we have now had CONSISTENT returns of 100 percent even with with-holdings returned - even though we did not ask for them. We tried to GIFT the withholdings - but they were returned to us 100%. So today we went to another bank and opened up all new accounts - and the manager just smiled as we executed the Agreement in FULL DISCLAIMER.

I can remember the first time I walked up to a teller to cash a check drawn on that bank with the following disclaimers:

NAME OF TRUST COMPANY, by its Agent, Me, absent individual capacity, absent individual liability assumed, absent surety, absent accommodation, absent recourse, without prejudice, and principally and perpetually made subject to the terms of conditions of NAME OF TRUST COMPANY and demand is made for lawful money per 12U.S.C.411: signature

6 font text - you can get this on the back of a check within the allowed space - without problem.

I thought the red/blue lights would start flashing as my heart raced - no one was there to help me or to give me words in case things did not go my way - and to my great surprise the teller said - "What the heck is all of this?" To wit, I responded, perhaps you should speak to your manager. Upon her return she said "I learn something new everyday".

Egypt is a reed shaken in the wind - but the children of the King are free.

Hopefully, my report will encourage some of you. Trust in God. But Faith absent Deeds is dead. I in every event always prayed over the event prior to attempt - the victory was mine before I left my car. I walked it out as a WITNESS to the Glory of God.
 Quoting: David Merrill 30227809



More!

bump
nwo_watcher_911
David Merrill
User ID: 38982596
United States
05/01/2013 08:18 PM
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Re: 12 USC 411, "...Federal reserve notes shall be redeemed for lawful money on demand..."
More?

www.savingtosuitorsclub.net

Thanks for asking!!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 35402988
United States
06/12/2013 07:15 PM
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Re: 12 USC 411, "...Federal reserve notes shall be redeemed for lawful money on demand..."
Very interesting! Thanks. Yet, as the previous poster indicated that he somewho writes on transactions for lawful money, is that basically a waste of time given this example? Thanks again!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1003364


Great Question!
Carpet Gnome
California Libertarian

User ID: 28239767
United States
06/12/2013 07:19 PM

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Re: 12 USC 411, "...Federal reserve notes shall be redeemed for lawful money on demand..."
I called the Federal Reserve in San Francisco CA. to find out if I could get a United States Note....answer...no. You can now only get (purchase) them from the mint as a collectors item or something.
Carpet Gnome
California Libertarian

User ID: 28239767
United States
06/12/2013 07:20 PM

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Re: 12 USC 411, "...Federal reserve notes shall be redeemed for lawful money on demand..."
Anonymous Coward
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08/09/2013 04:57 PM
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Re: 12 USC 411, "...Federal reserve notes shall be redeemed for lawful money on demand..."
I called the Federal Reserve in San Francisco CA. to find out if I could get a United States Note....answer...no. You can now only get (purchase) them from the mint as a collectors item or something.
 Quoting: Carpet Gnome


Yup. If you redeem FRNs under Title 12 USC 411....you get FRNs. Its been that way for *at least* 39 years. Mobley Milam tried it in 1974 and got FRNs in redemption.

Appellant has filed a substantial brief and an adequate reply brief and has argued his full share of allotted time in support for a demand that his $50.00 Federal Reserve Bank Note be redeemed in "lawful money" of the United States, which he says, in effect, must be gold or silver. Appellant refused appellees' tender of an equivalent value in Federal Reserve Notes.
 Quoting:


The entire 'Redeemer' argument is empty having been rendered moot in 1933. And demonstrated nonsense when Nixon was still president.

Worse, its kinda dumb. The US government doesn't even have US Notes anymore. In 1994, Congress relieved the treasury of any duty to hold or reiussue US notes and authorized their destruction.

Which the Treasury did 2 years later.

There isn't any part of this the 'Redeemer' crowd got right.
Anonymous Coward
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United States
08/09/2013 05:08 PM
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Re: 12 USC 411, "...Federal reserve notes shall be redeemed for lawful money on demand..."
Uh, yea... sound like a sovereign citizen scam... try that in federal court against the irs and see just how far you get... you ready to take one for the team and let us know how it works out? Remember, this is not your game, your just an observer, what TPTB want, they will get...
 Quoting:


You've honed in on the central problem with the entire tax avoidance con they're shilling here: stare decisis isn't base on what some random guy on the internet believes. But what the courts have already found.

Virtually no part of the 'Redeemer' argument is recognized by the courts as valid. With the courts having contradicted much of their 'lawful money' claims.

Which begs the question....what's the use of a 'legal' argument that isn't recognized by the courts?

None.

Yet most of these shills are still trying to convince folks that the law means whatever they imagine it does. And that the courts are bound to their imagination.

Um, no. They're not. Just ask Milam.....or Rickman.....or Schiff....or Benson......or Ed and Elaine....or Hendrickson... that poor bastard that was just sentenced to 18 years for tax fraud.
Anonymous Coward
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08/30/2013 10:34 PM
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Re: 12 USC 411, "...Federal reserve notes shall be redeemed for lawful money on demand..."
I have a quick question, I have been redeeming lawful money for over a year now, how would I go about a refund for purchases that I paid sales tax for? is there a specific form for sales tax refund?
Anonymous Coward
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08/31/2013 04:44 PM
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Re: 12 USC 411, "...Federal reserve notes shall be redeemed for lawful money on demand..."
Nobody has explained why endorsing a check as "lawful money" excuses one from income taxes. That is just a bunch of woo-woo wishful thinking and quiet frankly, a waste of the IRS's time (for which we all pay) in chasing such whackos. Save us all some tax dollars and stop this nonsense!rant
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28727623


Because income tax is a use fee for fiat FRNs.

Contract law and property rights all come into play, use the property of another, pay the fee for doing so, just because they title that fee "income tax" does not change the nature of the obligation.
Anonymous Coward
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08/31/2013 04:53 PM
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Re: 12 USC 411, "...Federal reserve notes shall be redeemed for lawful money on demand..."
No case has ever been filed by the IRS against anyone after they have restricted their endorcements on all bank transaction and demanded lawful money per 12 USC 411.

The shill scum here posting this matter has already been adjudicated is a liar. I can bring up a number of cases where someone has killed another and been found guilty of murder.

Those cases cannot prove that every time someone kills another person they have committed murder. The shill is doing the exact same thing when he posts cases of tax evasion criminals who have been found guilty and then claims the case against lawful money redemption posted here has been tried already.

Outright LIES.

Demand for lawful money as described here works and continues to work the IRS has never filed a case against any of us who are doing this and full refunds of all income tax plus intrest continue.

Too bad the shills are dead wrong on those facts.
Anonymous Coward
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08/31/2013 04:55 PM
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Re: 12 USC 411, "...Federal reserve notes shall be redeemed for lawful money on demand..."
I called the Federal Reserve in San Francisco CA. to find out if I could get a United States Note....answer...no. You can now only get (purchase) them from the mint as a collectors item or something.
 Quoting: Carpet Gnome


Do you have a reading problem? FRNs are redeemed UPON demand now. There are no US red seal notes. Read the thread.
Anonymous Coward
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08/31/2013 05:57 PM
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Re: 12 USC 411, "...Federal reserve notes shall be redeemed for lawful money on demand..."
I agree with some of these assertions about legal money in theory, but not in practice. I also agree that in theory, a well regulated state militia has the same right to weaponry that is equivalent to the weaponry of the US government, nuclear bombs for instance. While I agree with the theory of the original intent and protection of of a law, in practice I do not agree that it is allowed under the current practice of government operating under the color of law, absent the true rule of law. Basically, we live in a country controlled by a hostile government and to think the rule of law will protect you is wishful thinking. Like all corruption, it will eventually fall in n itself. Until then, you would be wise not to risk your freedom and life testing theories. We are in a state of captivity, if we ever come together as captives, we may hasten our deliverance. We are still very divided and to pick a fight at this point for something other than violence or abuse against your family is probably not worth it.
Anonymous Coward
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08/31/2013 06:35 PM
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Re: 12 USC 411, "...Federal reserve notes shall be redeemed for lawful money on demand..."
I agree with some of these assertions about legal money in theory, but not in practice. I also agree that in theory, a well regulated state militia has the same right to weaponry that is equivalent to the weaponry of the US government, nuclear bombs for instance. While I agree with the theory of the original intent and protection of of a law, in practice I do not agree that it is allowed under the current practice of government operating under the color of law, absent the true rule of law. Basically, we live in a country controlled by a hostile government and to think the rule of law will protect you is wishful thinking. Like all corruption, it will eventually fall in n itself. Until then, you would be wise not to risk your freedom and life testing theories. We are in a state of captivity, if we ever come together as captives, we may hasten our deliverance. We are still very divided and to pick a fight at this point for something other than violence or abuse against your family is probably not worth it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 43640675


maybe YOU are in a state of captivity, but not all of us are.

maybe freedom is not worth the price for YOU, but i assure you, they will not 'give' you freedom, they will keep taking till there is nothing left for you to give up. freedom has never been the dwelling place for the weak.'

enjoy your voluntary servitude, you are right, surrender, life and freedom are not worth it...
Anonymous Coward
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08/31/2013 06:50 PM
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Re: 12 USC 411, "...Federal reserve notes shall be redeemed for lawful money on demand..."
I called the Federal Reserve Bank in San Francisco and they said they don't issue money like that anymore. you can get United States Notes from the Treasury but it's more of a collector thing now I guess.

There's no way in hell the Gov will let you not pay taxes.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 45490999
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08/31/2013 06:51 PM
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Re: 12 USC 411, "...Federal reserve notes shall be redeemed for lawful money on demand..."
We live in a country that doesn't obey its own laws. I mean, look at the 2nd Amendment. Congress is not "infringe" on anyone's right to "arms".

If the government doesn't even follow the fucking Bill Of Rights and the Constitution, how are we supposed to expect that it's going to follow 12 USC 411?

It seems that some people have gotten lucky with avoiding income tax using this strategy, but the statement that everyone who uses it is set free is not true.

There have been a lot of anti income tax people, some of them former agents, who knew the law and yet got fucked by the courts and sent to jail.

It does not seem to matter what the law actually says, but whether the court decides to follow it or not.

This is a country run by criminals, your best bet is to out-criminal them and not rely on them following the law.
Anonymous Coward
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08/31/2013 08:00 PM
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Re: 12 USC 411, "...Federal reserve notes shall be redeemed for lawful money on demand..."
We live in a country that doesn't obey its own laws. I mean, look at the 2nd Amendment. Congress is not "infringe" on anyone's right to "arms".

If the government doesn't even follow the fucking Bill Of Rights and the Constitution, how are we supposed to expect that it's going to follow 12 USC 411?

It seems that some people have gotten lucky with avoiding income tax using this strategy, but the statement that everyone who uses it is set free is not true.

There have been a lot of anti income tax people, some of them former agents, who knew the law and yet got fucked by the courts and sent to jail.

It does not seem to matter what the law actually says, but whether the court decides to follow it or not.

This is a country run by criminals, your best bet is to out-criminal them and not rely on them following the law.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45490999


There are many forms of "law". In strict terms every contract is "law".

You assume the people do not control any courts. I disagree. Any well informed jury can nullify ANY law, it's called jury nullification.

Again, provide me ONE case where any non-endorser, demanding lawful money on ALL their bank transactions has ever even been tried for any income tax related issue.

You can't because there are NONE, ZERO, nada.

The fact are what they are, I am glad the fed shills have changed their tactics to "gentle warnings of certain doom" and "attack the criminal nature of the government" but the facts remain, the IRS has and continues to issue full refunds, plus interest to those demanding lawful money redemption per 12 USC 411.

Your carding about strangers demanding lawful money and warning of future doom and prison is pretty weak.

You are succeeding only in bumping the thread and informing others of my success with redemption per 12 USC 411. Please tell your handlers a new online personality is needed, it's just not working on those of us who have been doing it for years without anything but tax refunds and smiles from the IRS.
Anonymous Coward
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08/31/2013 09:26 PM
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Re: 12 USC 411, "...Federal reserve notes shall be redeemed for lawful money on demand..."
The milman case is a red herring. The idiot clearly wanted gold or silver coins as "redemption" and limited HIS definition of lawful money to be ONLY gold and silver coin.

The truth is all money issued by the US treasury and backed DIRECTLY by gold and silver coin (reserves at face value) are lawful money.

In 1933 FDR demanded the return of most gold coins issued by the US treasury and mint. The total face value of the coins was nearly 300 million dollars. Today, federal law limits the amount of "lawful money" in circulation to be... 300 million dollars, look it up and the history behind those gold coins.

Today, those very coins are held in TRUST and back my demand for redemption of lawful money, you can travel to Denver, Colorado and see the public trust coins for yourself.

Once I demand lawful money redemption per 12 USC 411 on ALL my bank transactions, the actual form of paper currency I am given means nearly nothing, it is accounted for on my yearly reporting to the us treasury (via IRS FORMS should I choose) or by other means.

The demand is the key, not the form of NOTES I use to conduct my affairs with.

But you MUST make your demand per 12 USC 411 on every single transaction, it's not a one time deal. If not, you will be rightly taxed on every dollar you cannot account for as "demanded redeemed" and back with records.

I know it works, I do it and others have as well.
Anonymous Coward
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08/31/2013 10:32 PM
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Re: 12 USC 411, "...Federal reserve notes shall be redeemed for lawful money on demand..."
We live in a country that doesn't obey its own laws. I mean, look at the 2nd Amendment. Congress is not "infringe" on anyone's right to "arms".

If the government doesn't even follow the fucking Bill Of Rights and the Constitution, how are we supposed to expect that it's going to follow 12 USC 411?

It seems that some people have gotten lucky with avoiding income tax using this strategy, but the statement that everyone who uses it is set free is not true.

There have been a lot of anti income tax people, some of them former agents, who knew the law and yet got fucked by the courts and sent to jail.

It does not seem to matter what the law actually says, but whether the court decides to follow it or not.

This is a country run by criminals, your best bet is to out-criminal them and not rely on them following the law.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45490999


There are many forms of "law". In strict terms every contract is "law".

You assume the people do not control any courts. I disagree. Any well informed jury can nullify ANY law, it's called jury nullification.

Again, provide me ONE case where any non-endorser, demanding lawful money on ALL their bank transactions has ever even been tried for any income tax related issue.

You can't because there are NONE, ZERO, nada.

The fact are what they are, I am glad the fed shills have changed their tactics to "gentle warnings of certain doom" and "attack the criminal nature of the government" but the facts remain, the IRS has and continues to issue full refunds, plus interest to those demanding lawful money redemption per 12 USC 411.

Your carding about strangers demanding lawful money and warning of future doom and prison is pretty weak.

You are succeeding only in bumping the thread and informing others of my success with redemption per 12 USC 411. Please tell your handlers a new online personality is needed, it's just not working on those of us who have been doing it for years without anything but tax refunds and smiles from the IRS.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 40017194


Sure thing. Sherry Peel Jackson and Joe Banister. Two agents who turned on the IRS and got fucked by the courts.

Your faith in the court system is admirable. Naive, but admirable.

I mean seriously, you didn't even bother to address the point I made about how the 2nd Amendment is blatantly ignored by the courts all the time, and you're calling ME a shill?

Grow up. Virtually no juror is aware of jury nullification so it doesn't matter how legally correct it is (and I am all for it). They pretty much all act like robots and believe that whatever the judge tells them to do is what they have to do. They are programmed machines.

Jurors figure that since they've had to pay taxes, so should everyone else. They're selfish twits. I have no plans of putting my personal security in the hands of 12 average american morons in the hopes that they'll not act like anything other than the programmed droids they are.

You're the one in need of a new personality. Changing the monetary system is the most important thing that needs to be done but putting your hopes on pie in the sky scenarios like expecting the courts to obey the laws they are used to ignoring is a recipe for disaster.

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