Most Christians are idiots when it comes to the Bible. I blame their blind and deaf shepherds.

Sadly friend ....anyone who blindly believes, follows or bows down to any of our artificial hierarchies, and their polarizing and exploitative control systems and doctrines..are idiots..which pretty much means most of humanity ..and why 1% owned 80% of the world while the remaining 99% deludedly and blindly fight eachother and scrabble for the remaining scraps!

The joys of artifically controlled governments. religions, and economies ...that provide so much love, inclusion, free choice and competition and equality, right? Well dig deeper at the real ownership, control and distribution of resources and wealth and the above crazy global pattern emerges...in every country.

Which commandments are you doing OP?

The honour they father and mother one is obviously not universal, it needs a qualifer like, only to the extent that they represent your spiritual parent/s.

Where much is given, much is required;

For of him unto whom much is given much is required; and he who sins against the greater light shall receive the greater condemnation. - [link to lds.org]

Do you mean Deuteronomy 5:16? It's obviously not universal, look at the reference to land. That commandment is specific to the group of people who were given the land referred to.


Honour thy father and thy mother, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee; that thy days may be prolonged, and that it may go well with thee, in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
-- Deuteronomy 5:16

A modern day parable = Ye Must Be Born Again

Elder David A. Bednar of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles

Through faith in Christ, we can be spiritually prepared and cleansed from sin, immersed in and saturated with His gospel, and purified and sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise.

A pickle is a cucumber that has been transformed according to a specific recipe and series of steps. The first steps in the process of changing a cucumber into a pickle are preparing and cleaning. I remember many hours spent on the back porch of my home removing stems from and scrubbing dirt off of the cucumbers we had picked. My mom was very particular about the preparing and cleaning of the cucumbers. She had high standards of cleanliness and always inspected my work to make sure this important task was properly completed.

The next steps in this process of change are immersing and saturating the cucumbers in salt brine for an extended period of time. To prepare the brine, my mom always used a recipe she learned from her mother—a recipe with special ingredients and precise procedures. Cucumbers can only become pickles if they are totally and completely immersed in the brine for the prescribed time period. The curing process gradually alters the composition of the cucumber and produces the transparent appearance and distinctive taste of a pickle. An occasional sprinkle of or dip in the brine cannot produce the necessary transformation. Rather, steady, sustained, and complete immersion is required for the desired change to occur.

The final step in the process requires the sealing of the cured pickles in jars that have been sterilized and purified. The pickles are packed in canning jars, covered with boiling hot brine, and processed in a boiling-water-bath canner. All impurities must be removed from both the pickles and the bottles so the finished product can be protected and preserved. As this procedure is properly followed, the pickles can be stored and enjoyed for a long period of time.

To summarize, a cucumber becomes a pickle as it is prepared and cleaned, immersed in and saturated with salt brine, and sealed in a sterilized container. This procedure requires time and cannot be hurried, and none of the essential steps can be ignored or avoided...

Proper preparing and cleaning are the first basic steps in the process of being born again... - [link to lds.org]

Last Edited by Tru Blu no more on 01/01/2012 06:56 AM

Bible right again!

"And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceives the whole world:"(Rev.12:9)

Really, is that why Jesus restated the 10C law?

The 10C law has always been and always will be for God's people. They were found right from the beginning in the Garden. The 10C law was only given to Moses at that time to remind Israel as they were coming out of captivity in Egypt.

The little known law of Moses nobody seems to follow:
Thou shall not feed the Troll.

This is probably one of the most important debates of all time. For humans to take some personal responsibility and quit looking elsewhere for someone to do the work. Laziness is the crux of all humanity. We need to wash away the curse of the bible and religion. As a collective, none of it has brought anything good. And you will know them by their works, right? The bible has brought nothing but billions of bloody deaths. Same with other religious documents.

Actually that was pagan Rome. Millions of the deaths were Christian.

So you think you own that land? Why not go live there?

The ten commandments are part of the law of Moses, and can't be split out from it. God commanded His people the Israelites to obey the ten commandments and the rest of the law of Moses, when He gave them the law at Mount Sinai.

God did not command everybody in the world to obey the ten commandments, and He didn't command everybody in the world to obey the rest of the law of Moses. Those laws are only for the Israelites, as God commanded. Similarly, God didn't give the promised land to everybody in the world, He gave it to the Israelites.

God made it quite clear that Christians aren't supposed to live under the law of Moses, they are supposed to be under the new covenant law. Under new covenant law, Jesus is the High Priest. Jesus cannot be High Priest under the law of Moses, so you cannot mix together the laws from the two covenants.

See Acts 15:24 and Hebrews 7:12 for example.

Now you will probably want to ask, "Does that mean that you are allowed to murder people?". No it doesn't, you will probably find that murder is discouraged in the New Testament as well, if you read the New Testament.

But ask yourself, is Jesus Christ your High Priest? If He is, under what law? Because He can't be High Priest under the law of Moses, and he clearly said that He would not make any changes to the law of Moses. The only way it makes sense is if He started a new system of laws, which is what He did.

For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. -- Hebrews 7:12

No, not for the whole world, only god's people. If you are God's people then you follow His 10C law he wrote in stone with His finger. The 10C law is different than the law of Moses according to the Bible/God's word. I'll go by god's word as final.

The 10C law has always been and always will be for God's people. They were found right from the beginning in the Garden. The 10C law was only given to Moses at that time to remind Israel as they were coming out of captivity in Egypt.

Jesus said: If you love me keep my commandments.

We are further told

Rev.22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Are you saying it is now lawful for adultery, theft, murder? Other gods? Sabbath?

We are told God's law is not grievous.

1 John 5:3 "For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous."

The Bible truth from God's word is that if you are not following god's law you do not even know Jesus but have "another jesus". Maybe you are Catholic?

James 2:19 You believe that there is one God; you do well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

"For if he that comes preaches another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if you receive another spirit, which you have not received, or another gospel, which you have not accepted, you might well bear with him." (2 Cor.11:4)

"Know you not, that to whom you yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants you are to whom you obey; whether of sin to death, or of obedience to righteousness?" (Romans 6:16)

> For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. -- Hebrews 7:12

Christ was the final sacrifice. There is no more earthly sacrificial system - law of Moses. (Col.2:14 KJV) The 10C law remains for ever.

New covenant, new High Priest, new commandments.

And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
-- 1 John 3:23

A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
-- John 13:34

If you love God you follow the 10C law, so said Jesus. If you love your fellow man you follow the last six of 10C law. The love command does not do away with God's law. We are told exactly what was nailed to the cross - the sacrificial system, and that is all.(Col.2:14 KJV)

It is not right to say that the ten commandments were given out in the garden of Eden. Adam and Eve were not Israelites, and God clearly commanded the Israelites to obey the ten commandments.

Adam and Eve were never in Egypt, let alone brought out of Egypt. Christians were also not brought out of Egypt. The people brought out of Egypt were the Israelites, the people whom God commanded to keep the ten commandments and the rest of the law of Moses.

God did not tell Adam and Eve that he brought them out of bondage in Egypt. But God did say in the ten commandments that the people being commanded were brought out of Egypt. Clearly it does not make sense to try to say that God told Adam and Eve that He saved them from bondage in Egypt. That did not happen.

God commanded the Israelites to keep these laws. The Israelites weren't in the garden of Eden. They were in Egypt, and then God brought them out of there. Since the ten commandments mentions this twice, in Deuteronomy 5:6 and Deuteronomy 5:16, obviously the ten commandments weren't given to Adam and Eve.


1 And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them.

2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.

3 The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.
-- Deuteronomy 5:1-3

I am the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage. Thou shalt have none other gods before me.
-- Deuteronomy 5:6-7


Read what Jesus said about murder. Note that the old law said that killing was wrong. But the new law says that being angry without cause is wrong. The new law is clearly more strict than the old law. Under the old law presumably people could get away with being angry without cause as long as they didn't kill anybody. But the new law forbids that.


21 Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
-- Matthew 5:21-22


Read what Jesus said about adultery. The old law forbade adultery. But the new law is more strict, and forbids lusting after somebody. It is not the same law.


27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
-- Matthew 5:27-28


Similarly, "an eye for an eye" is not the same law as "turn the other cheek", and so on. Even if you only accept what Jesus said, you cannot claim that Jesus told people to just obey the ten commandments.



[link to www.biblegateway.com]

[link to www.biblegateway.com]

[link to www.biblegateway.com]

OP is right. The prophet Isaiah told us that it would be this way:

Isaiah 56:10 His watchmen are blind, All of them know nothing. All of them are dumb dogs unable to bark, Dreamers lying down, who love to slumber;

Isaiah 56:11 And the dogs are greedy, they are not satisfied. And they are shepherds who have no understanding; They have all turned to their own way, Each one to his unjust gain, to the last one.


But the sheep are just as dumb. They wouldn't have it any other way.

2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires;

Take some personal responsibility. Most people reject Truth and Holiness, instead they surrond themselves with instuctors that they agree with.


God is willing to take care of his own.

And I will give you shepherds according to my heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding. anwer.

First half of your statement is true and second half is false.

Work Is an Eternal Principle
Work has been the way of life on earth since Adam and Eve left the Garden of Eden. The Lord said to Adam, “In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread”. Adam and Eve worked in the fields so they could provide for their own needs and the needs of their children...

God Condemns Idleness
The Lord is not pleased with those who are lazy or idle. He said, “The idler shall not have place in the church, except he repent and mend his ways”. He also commanded, “Thou shalt not be idle; for he that is idle shall not eat the bread nor wear the garments of the laborer”...

God revealed to Adam, “In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread”. In addition to being a temporal law, this was a law for the salvation of Adam’s soul. There is no real division between spiritual, mental, and physical work. Work is essential to each of us for growth, character development, and many satisfactions that the idle never know. - [link to lds.org]

Yep, all 10C law was from the beginning because the law is God's character.

Adam and Eve were told to have no other gods or obey God when he said "do not eat of the forbidden tree." Cain murdered Abel.

God created for six days, rested the seventh day. The weekly Sabbath is a memorial of creation to remember the Creator.

The rest of the 10C law was there too.
[link to www.keyway.ca]

Abraham kept God's law.

"Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws." (Gen.26:5)

Noah, too, was found to be just.

"These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God."(Gen.6:9)

If you can't understand when Jesus said keep the law if you love him then there's nothing I can say to change your mind.

Grace is for sin. Sin is transgression of the 10C law. If there is no more law then there is no more sin and no need for grace or a savior.

The only thing different today from the way Israel believed is that Jesus is the final sacrifice. Our grace comes by the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross.

Of course after Israel tribes were broken off due to unbelief and the Gospel went to the world we no longer live under any theocratic form of govt. God says vengeance is his in such matters as used to be punished under Israel's theocracy.

>"Read what Jesus said about adultery. The old law forbade adultery. But the new law is more strict, and forbids lusting after somebody. It is not the same law."

Jesus only further explained the law. It meant the same before Jesus only explained better i.e. kill = murder, but also to be angry i.e. with intent to kill. We are not to desire killing others. This is consistent with the heart of man being reborn.

So if your parents are pedophiles, sadistic, or some other satanically inspired person, do you really think God expects you to honour them? Obviously not.

For that commandment to be do-able, it has to be one's spiritual parent/s, not one's worldy parents - after all, there are only 2 sires in this world, God and satan.

I agree

YOU and ONLY YOU, whether you have heard the word "Christ" or not, can cleanse your own sin. Belief in him does not do so.

you won't be able to help 98%+ ... not even they can help themselves. some will try and break away for a short time - a few comprehend it's just an entry level/spirituality 101 course - but then they don't have what it takes to see it through and return to their childhood (brainwashed state). seen it countless times - it's no longer shocking. and yes the angels reel in heaven that so many humans could be bound in fear to that old raggedy book. but it's also a barometer on how little we evolve generation to generation here on hell's little flesh & blood ball.

hmm? define 'raggedy old book'.

After all we can do

... the truth is that we are saved by both our efforts and by God's unmerited grace. - Thread: And the answer is............ (Page 3)

You previously said that you accept what the bible says. The bible says straight out that God gave the commandments to the Israelites who left Egypt and went to Mount Sinai, and not their ancestors. So you can accept what the bible says, or carry on rejecting it.

3 The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.
-- Deuteronomy 5:3

Adam and Eve, Abraham, and Noah, were all not Israelites. They were the ancestors of Jacob who was renamed Israel. The ten commandments and the rest of the law of Moses were not given to anybody before the Israelites got to Mount Sinai.

The ten commandments do not even make sense if given in the garden of Eden. If God said to Adam and Eve:

I am the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.
-- Deuteronomy 5:6

And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.
-- Deuteronomy 5:15

Adam and Eve would say, "God where is Egypt? God we haven't been there, and we have never been slaves there. We weren't rescued from Egypt, we've been right here in the garden. What are you talking about?"

Remember that the bible says:

The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.
-- Deuteronomy 5:3

If you say that God did make that covenant with Adam and Eve, then you are rejecting what the bible says and replacing it with something you like better. This contradicts what you said earlier, that you accept what the bible says.

No He didn't, it's different. You can read Jesus saying "turn the other cheek" in Matthew 5:39, and Luke 6:29. The ten commandments do not say "turn the other cheek", indeed the whole old testament never says "turn the other cheek".

Clearly the new covenant law is not the same as the old covenant law. As the bible says, Jesus is the High Priest. Jesus is High Priest of the new covenant, and cannot be High Priest under the old covenant. He is from the tribe of Judah, and old covenant priests must be from the tribe of Levi.

Please read Hebrews 7:1 to Hebrews 10:22, which is about Jesus being the High Priest, and how things are different under the new covenant than they were under the old covenant.


12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.

14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
-- Hebrews 7:12-14

[link to www.biblegateway.com]