Lead Acid Battery Desulfation? Does it really work? | |
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Anonymous Coward User ID: 40394421 United States 10/21/2014 10:01 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | mael, good info! Let me run this by you.... I used to recondition and sell batteries, they sold well, were reliable, and lasted through their warranty. To get started I purchased a system, consisting mainly of a manual, gallon containers of a dark liquid, battery testing equipment, and a Christie six battery charger. The basic process was: one ounce of the liquid into each cell connect the batteries in series to the charger maintain 5.5 amps for 24 hours maintain 4.5 amps for the next 24 hours The success rate in this process was quite high. Was it the dark liquid or the charger? I don't see much too special about the charger, other than coarse and fine amp adjustment knobs, and the max voltage output is something close to 72v dc to handle six batteries at once. I could never find out what the dark liquid was, and the supplier is long gone now. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 40394421 United States 10/21/2014 10:10 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Baking soda will neutralize acid, I wouldn't think that could help the internals of a battery very much at all. Maybe if you intended to replenish the acid. There's a website called BatteryUniversity that recommended using a power supply to maintain a 12v battery. I found one that puts out 12v @ 500ma, a cordless phone (landline) charger. They also mentioned the power supplies have a better sine wave that benefits the batteries. My motorcycle has an absorbed glass mat battery, and I use that phone charger to maintain it in winter, works great. |
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Unfettered One User ID: 40368927 United States 06/30/2015 03:46 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | To answer the OP. Yes it does...BUT pulsing alone is only part of the solution. I have built a system that statistically returns 33% of junker batts to service. No chemicals or mystery additives. Snake oil salesmen. They always have a new & better concoction to sell you. The system I built TESTS & RATES the batteries AND advises on service application. It also will convert 60 junker 50Ah batts into 20 serviceable units every month! The recipe is relatively complex to achieve the requisite ion mobility which is key to the battery function. But here are a few tips. Ratiometric reflex pulsing, dedendriting, voltage current and pulsewidth controls. Cell level fault testing. Thermal fault testing. On the fly CCA improvement tracking. It's not a mystery, it's science. I have the data logs for over 100 automotive batteries as well as lab notes for the system development. The microprocessor has over 7000 lines of ASM code to do the job. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 69263193 United States 06/30/2015 05:30 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 69629493 United States 06/30/2015 05:38 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Yes, it works. Quoting: mael The machines you can buy in the stores or the internet are nearly all useless. To desulphate effectively within a reasonable length of time you must have strong pulses with straight-up leaking edges to the spikes. Say for example you've got a 60A/h battery from a car that's been sitting for five years. The voltage is a few volts with the connections pulled. You try to charge it using a normal charger overnight and the next day it is still useless. You do another charge and leave it charging for a full day, and it's still not going to crank even a motorcycle. - That's what a sulphated battery gets like. Lead/acid batteries must be kept charged or they will sulphate. (alleged) maintenance free batteries that are valve regulated and are not flooded are able to be left for longer periods between charges than regular (with caps) batteries, but they don't last long for a few other reasons, and in the end still get sulphated. Here's what to do:- 1. Open the caps and check the electrolyte's specific gravity. If it's sulphated then the SG will be so low the balls won't float, or the float sticks at the bottom. With this battery, the sulphur in the acid has left to form lead-sulphate on the plates. Over time this has hardened and what you have now is an insulating layer of lead sulphate (crystals) which won't give its sulphur back to the acid, and forms an impenetrable layer so it won't charge or discharge much if at all. * Sometimes these lead sulphates form a colony so big that parts of it push the plates next to it and can short some or all of the plates. If this has occured then your voltage from a nominally 12V battery will settle at around 10.5V. If this is the case then it's a doorstop. Even if you've got a use for a 10V battery then the chances are if one cell has shorted then the rest aren't far behind. 2. First of all put enough distilled water in each cell to cover the plates. DON'T fill the cells to the max-mark. The reason for this is that the level will rise as a charge is taken in, and if you fill it to the max then it will become over-filled, which means the electrolyte is too diluted and/or you get (highly destructive) sulphuric acid everywhere. 3. Now here's where most won't be able to go. - Have a 20V DC supply pulsed into the battery. Have the duty cycle as 1% to 10% and pulse it with a square wave, or any wave providing the leading edge is pretty much vertical. The trailing edge isn't so important, but that should be a vertical line as well if possible (I'm poor and scavenge parts so the devices I make aren't so great so the trailing edges aren't straight). * You have to keep your eye on the battery and keep the battery between fifteen volts and sixteen for about two or three days - with the pulses, not a straight charge. * You'll need to add distilled water to one or more of the cells as you go, so look at them occasionally. If you smell hydrogen sulphine (bad eggs) then that's a good indication of a shorted cell - if so then the battery's stuffed. After a few hours of this "punching" by (relatively) high voltage, high current (1 - 200A variable) you should see the SG rising in all cells. After three days they should all be in the green if the battery isn't physically broken. If the battery's plates or internal connections are shot then there is no practical way to fix it. After three days the battery is ready for a test - it might even do for your car at this stage. When the pulsing is done, then add distilled water to the high mark and test. If, when discharged slowly, the battery seems to be OK but when under heavy load such as cranking, it goes dead then an internal connection is loose. The battery is junk. - & risky because an internal spark from a poor connection could ignite the hydrogen and oxygen gas given off during charging. (Very big bang). If the (60A/h) battery's capacity is tested to be more like 10, then it m-i-g-h-t start a small car, but what's happened is the positive plates have rotted over time and are now so effectively small that the battery is acting like a very-much smaller one. The battery is as good as junk, or to mess with low-power stuff on your bench or something. If one or two cells are bubbling a lot then that's a short. The battery is toast. If one or two cells' SG is far different from the rest then it indicates the plates of those cells are either disconnected and are just hanging there by the insulating layers or that the plates are extremely corroded. The battery is not much use, but might get you out of a fix. What desulphating by electronics does is to get the battery to the best condition it can be in depending on its physical condition. It won't fix a battery with plates that are corroded or broken. I make my desulphators with the transformer of (for example) a mini-arc welder and the pulses exit the transistor blocks I find in the control circuits of inverter air conditioners. I make a simple asymetrical multivibrator with two transistors and vary each side's 'clock' duration with resistors and capacitors. I deliver the signal to the output transistors with a relay, and my pulsers tend to operate at about 10 - 100pp/s. I think low speed high current works better than lower current pulses. I use a relay because they give me a perfect sharp leading edge to the spikes... The residual capacitance in the semiconductors is what causes the trailing edges of my machines to linger - I'm poor so I can't buy a proper driver circuit and make mine from bits here and there. So yeah, desulphators work - but they work on the sulphates only and won't fix a battery that is basically broken. I get ten years at least from starting batteries. Deep cycle batteries last me twenty years, and marine batteries somewhere between the two. I fix batteries for friends, and pick them up from junkpiles - nearly all the ones I find I get to cranking again. * The bought ones are crap. You have to make your own and the spikes should deliver a real whack or it won't work. The true death of a battery is when the positive plates decompose to the point where it won't hold a useful charge. There's no getting around a rotted positive plate, and today's car batteries are crap and are getting worse. - Well made batteries have thicker plates and can last decades. - still! with care, you can get three or four times the usual use from a cheapo car battery if you know what to do. I'd advise against the (alleged) maintenance-free batteries, but it's true that they are reliable for at least a year and likely two. MF batteries are fine for women or lazy men. Get the old type with caps you can remove. There is no such thing as a maintenance free lead acid battery - they need maintenance or they will die. Also - find which company makes good batteries and pay the extra because they'll last much longer than the cheap shit creeping in on the shelves of automotive stores - and finally, put in the biggest battery you practically can for your car. The bigger battery will last longer. * Sorry about typos. Car battery MASTER. ^^^^ truly |
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Anonymous Coward User ID: 69081364 United States 06/30/2015 06:20 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I find that sulfated plates are best corrected by charging the battery at finish rate until 115% of recharge amps, then to slow cycle for about 24 hours using the customary cell formation profile, then flush the battery with 1.295 SG acid. carefull not to exceed 125 degrees while slow cycling. BTW submarine batteries are pasted flat plates most common cause of battery failure is mis-aligned separators and or cold burns on the strap |
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Anonymous Coward User ID: 9026518 United States 06/30/2015 06:31 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | you may restore maybe 1 or 2% or 5% of surface area between plates but you'll just get stranded when it goes bad again in a few days. |
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Anonymous Coward User ID: 69081364 United States 06/30/2015 06:36 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | if your battery is kaput, 'reconditioning' it may restore an amp or two of power but you need a lot of cranking amps. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9026518 you may restore maybe 1 or 2% or 5% of surface area between plates but you'll just get stranded when it goes bad again in a few days. most batteries that people try to "restore" have mossing and plate shedding in which case 5% would not be the norm. usually 1% or less |
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mikemiller82 User ID: 71384127 United Kingdom 02/17/2016 11:31 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | There’s a new way called EZbattery (www.EZbattery.info) to bring nearly any type of old battery back to life so it’s just like new again. This method works with nearly every type of battery out there ...and it’s simple and quick. In case you’re wondering, you’ll be able to bring car, phone, and laptop batteries back to life with this. It even works with solar/off-grid, marine, golf cart, and forklift batteries. Plus, many more! |
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Anonymous Coward User ID: 78964172 United States 05/28/2020 09:07 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Car batteries fail when the lead corrodes, pieces fall off and short out the charge when they touch two plates. There are videos showing how to convert the battery to alkaline and the battery needs to be flushed out with higher pressure hose water to get the corroded pieces out from touching the plates. |