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"Chemtrails" in 1979

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 9861563
United Kingdom
01/30/2012 10:50 AM
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Re: "Chemtrails" in 1979
Increasing Sulfur Content of Jet Fuel in Commercial Fleet

Whether or not a focused injection in the lower stratosphere or upper troposphere instead of higher in the stratosphere would tend to stay over the poles and what effect it would have on climate elsewhere is not known. A focused injection would be advantageous if the objective is to slow or stop the melting of the Arctic as recently noted (14, 38). My analysis does not consider injection into the troposphere because of uncertainty as to how long the aerosol would persist. Just how low in the lower stratosphere an injection would have to be made to stay put is also unknown, although the latitude appears to be more important than the altitude.



Additional Assumptions: (a) Increases in fuel usage and forcings are assumed to be linear over the period, with the understanding that increases will likely be more non linear and in some years, there may be a decline relative to the previous year or years as was the case due to 9-11 and the subsequent recession that both impacted air travel.



(b) As sulfur is burned and converted to sulfate aerosol, that aerosol’s reflection of sunlight generally matches the increase in GHG emissions for the same period of time. A one-year average lifetime for the aerosol is assumed. The overlapping of aerosol levels from year to year would need to be determined as the sulfate levels for one year don’t magically disappear on December 31 to be replaced by the higher level for the next year as is assumed in the calculations. This is the basis for Wigley talking about massive injections every few years, since the sulfate aerosol residence time in the stratosphere is 1-2 years.



(c) Based on Crutzen and Wigley’s recent papers, 5.3Tg of sulfur in the stratosphere offsets 4W/m2 or 1.3Tg sulfur/W/m2. It is assumed that an additional 2W/m2 is added to forcing vs. a 2000 baseline by 2050. This requires a maximum injection of 2.6Tg (rounded figure) in 2050 to keep forcing at the 2000 level or an average annual increase in sulfur of 2.6Tg/50 or 0.052Tg.

More: [link to www.global-warming-geo-engineering.org]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9861563


So?
 Quoting: Noble


It's a possiblity that it is already being done and you and I would be none the wiser, except of course for a few more persistent contrails.
SnakeAirlines

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United States
01/30/2012 11:12 AM

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Re: "Chemtrails" in 1979
This Chinese website appears to have a few more photos from
that set. Date shot Dec 1 1979

[link to blog.chosun.com]
 Quoting: Nice Boots Billy


Them Chinamens is in on it!

moranflag
"Hold my cat while I bring in my tomato plant. That chemtrail looks like an earthquake chemtrail"

deanoZXT-07/20/2014 07:48 PM
SnakeAirlines

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United States
01/30/2012 11:19 AM

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Re: "Chemtrails" in 1979
Can you prove that Chemtrails exist . . . as easily as you can prove the Aurora Aircraft exists?


 Quoting: George B


Crow instability
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2674622


Ooooo!

Good one!

popcorndeer2
"Hold my cat while I bring in my tomato plant. That chemtrail looks like an earthquake chemtrail"

deanoZXT-07/20/2014 07:48 PM
SnakeAirlines

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01/30/2012 11:21 AM

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Re: "Chemtrails" in 1979
It's a possiblity that it is already being done and you and I would be none the wiser, except of course for a few more persistent contrails.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9861563


It's possible that pigs fly out your ass, but do you have any actual evidence that they are?
"Hold my cat while I bring in my tomato plant. That chemtrail looks like an earthquake chemtrail"

deanoZXT-07/20/2014 07:48 PM
Anonymous Coward
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01/30/2012 11:23 AM
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Re: "Chemtrails" in 1979
It's a possiblity that it is already being done and you and I would be none the wiser, except of course for a few more persistent contrails.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9861563


It's possible that pigs fly out your ass, but do you have any actual evidence that they are?
 Quoting: SnakeAirlines


Do you have any actual evidence that they aren't? Or are you talking about evidence of pigs flying out of my ass, nope I can't see any.
SnakeAirlines

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United States
01/30/2012 11:25 AM

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Re: "Chemtrails" in 1979
It's a possiblity that it is already being done and you and I would be none the wiser, except of course for a few more persistent contrails.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9861563


It's possible that pigs fly out your ass, but do you have any actual evidence that they are?
 Quoting: SnakeAirlines


Do you have any actual evidence that they aren't? Or are you talking about evidence of pigs flying out of my ass, nope I can't see any.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9861563


Ahhh...

So in your world, it's guilty until proven innocent...

lmao
"Hold my cat while I bring in my tomato plant. That chemtrail looks like an earthquake chemtrail"

deanoZXT-07/20/2014 07:48 PM
Anonymous Coward
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United Kingdom
01/30/2012 11:27 AM
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Re: "Chemtrails" in 1979
It's a possiblity that it is already being done and you and I would be none the wiser, except of course for a few more persistent contrails.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9861563


It's possible that pigs fly out your ass, but do you have any actual evidence that they are?
 Quoting: SnakeAirlines


Do you have any actual evidence that they aren't? Or are you talking about evidence of pigs flying out of my ass, nope I can't see any.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9861563


Ahhh...

So in your world, it's guilty until proven innocent...

lmao
 Quoting: SnakeAirlines


Well do you have any evidence to prove otherwise?
ChuulRa
User ID: 9848213
Germany
01/30/2012 11:33 AM
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Re: "Chemtrails" in 1979
Ah, what can I say? The fluffy, military-styled jarhead hairdo interviewer was told by his masters that it was time to cut the interview!

I don't know this guy's name but I will remember it now. As I never forget O'Reilly, a traitor to his namesake's race.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5153937


Those are CONTRAILS
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4760870
SnakeAirlines

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United States
01/30/2012 11:34 AM

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Re: "Chemtrails" in 1979
Well do you have any evidence to prove otherwise?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9861563


Not the way it works...

Do you have any evidence that there is a massive secret 'spraying operation'?

popcorn
"Hold my cat while I bring in my tomato plant. That chemtrail looks like an earthquake chemtrail"

deanoZXT-07/20/2014 07:48 PM
Noble

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United States
01/30/2012 11:35 AM
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Re: "Chemtrails" in 1979
Increasing Sulfur Content of Jet Fuel in Commercial Fleet

Whether or not a focused injection in the lower stratosphere or upper troposphere instead of higher in the stratosphere would tend to stay over the poles and what effect it would have on climate elsewhere is not known. A focused injection would be advantageous if the objective is to slow or stop the melting of the Arctic as recently noted (14, 38). My analysis does not consider injection into the troposphere because of uncertainty as to how long the aerosol would persist. Just how low in the lower stratosphere an injection would have to be made to stay put is also unknown, although the latitude appears to be more important than the altitude.



Additional Assumptions: (a) Increases in fuel usage and forcings are assumed to be linear over the period, with the understanding that increases will likely be more non linear and in some years, there may be a decline relative to the previous year or years as was the case due to 9-11 and the subsequent recession that both impacted air travel.



(b) As sulfur is burned and converted to sulfate aerosol, that aerosol’s reflection of sunlight generally matches the increase in GHG emissions for the same period of time. A one-year average lifetime for the aerosol is assumed. The overlapping of aerosol levels from year to year would need to be determined as the sulfate levels for one year don’t magically disappear on December 31 to be replaced by the higher level for the next year as is assumed in the calculations. This is the basis for Wigley talking about massive injections every few years, since the sulfate aerosol residence time in the stratosphere is 1-2 years.



(c) Based on Crutzen and Wigley’s recent papers, 5.3Tg of sulfur in the stratosphere offsets 4W/m2 or 1.3Tg sulfur/W/m2. It is assumed that an additional 2W/m2 is added to forcing vs. a 2000 baseline by 2050. This requires a maximum injection of 2.6Tg (rounded figure) in 2050 to keep forcing at the 2000 level or an average annual increase in sulfur of 2.6Tg/50 or 0.052Tg.

More: [link to www.global-warming-geo-engineering.org]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9861563


So?
 Quoting: Noble


It's a possiblity that it is already being done and you and I would be none the wiser, except of course for a few more persistent contrails.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9861563


And that's my point...pointing at the trails and making the claim that since there are more of them...that means it's normal to make statements of fact about "chemtrails"...is fucking stupid!

All I'm saying is that there isn't any evidence that anything is purposely being sprayed into the sky as part of any secret program/operation...and everything that is presented as such evidence...is bullshit.

So far. the evidence presented is just evidence that the person presenting it is either stupid, crazy or ignorant.
Favorite Karma:


12/21/2012 "Can you admit you are a shill?"

No, I can't. Because that would be a lie.

Can you admit that you are a gullible loser?
Noble

User ID: 1211465
United States
01/30/2012 11:36 AM
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Re: "Chemtrails" in 1979
It's a possiblity that it is already being done and you and I would be none the wiser, except of course for a few more persistent contrails.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9861563


It's possible that pigs fly out your ass, but do you have any actual evidence that they are?
 Quoting: SnakeAirlines


Do you have any actual evidence that they aren't? Or are you talking about evidence of pigs flying out of my ass, nope I can't see any.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9861563


Ahhh...

So in your world, it's guilty until proven innocent...

lmao
 Quoting: SnakeAirlines


Absolutely...that's how the paranoid mind works..

Silly...aint it?!
Favorite Karma:


12/21/2012 "Can you admit you are a shill?"

No, I can't. Because that would be a lie.

Can you admit that you are a gullible loser?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 9861563
United Kingdom
01/30/2012 11:38 AM
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Re: "Chemtrails" in 1979
Well do you have any evidence to prove otherwise?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9861563


Not the way it works...

Do you have any evidence that there is a massive secret 'spraying operation'?

popcorn
 Quoting: SnakeAirlines


Do you have any evidence to the contrary?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 9861563
United Kingdom
01/30/2012 11:41 AM
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Re: "Chemtrails" in 1979
Increasing Sulfur Content of Jet Fuel in Commercial Fleet

Whether or not a focused injection in the lower stratosphere or upper troposphere instead of higher in the stratosphere would tend to stay over the poles and what effect it would have on climate elsewhere is not known. A focused injection would be advantageous if the objective is to slow or stop the melting of the Arctic as recently noted (14, 38). My analysis does not consider injection into the troposphere because of uncertainty as to how long the aerosol would persist. Just how low in the lower stratosphere an injection would have to be made to stay put is also unknown, although the latitude appears to be more important than the altitude.



Additional Assumptions: (a) Increases in fuel usage and forcings are assumed to be linear over the period, with the understanding that increases will likely be more non linear and in some years, there may be a decline relative to the previous year or years as was the case due to 9-11 and the subsequent recession that both impacted air travel.



(b) As sulfur is burned and converted to sulfate aerosol, that aerosol’s reflection of sunlight generally matches the increase in GHG emissions for the same period of time. A one-year average lifetime for the aerosol is assumed. The overlapping of aerosol levels from year to year would need to be determined as the sulfate levels for one year don’t magically disappear on December 31 to be replaced by the higher level for the next year as is assumed in the calculations. This is the basis for Wigley talking about massive injections every few years, since the sulfate aerosol residence time in the stratosphere is 1-2 years.



(c) Based on Crutzen and Wigley’s recent papers, 5.3Tg of sulfur in the stratosphere offsets 4W/m2 or 1.3Tg sulfur/W/m2. It is assumed that an additional 2W/m2 is added to forcing vs. a 2000 baseline by 2050. This requires a maximum injection of 2.6Tg (rounded figure) in 2050 to keep forcing at the 2000 level or an average annual increase in sulfur of 2.6Tg/50 or 0.052Tg.

More: [link to www.global-warming-geo-engineering.org]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9861563


So?
 Quoting: Noble


It's a possiblity that it is already being done and you and I would be none the wiser, except of course for a few more persistent contrails.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9861563


And that's my point...pointing at the trails and making the claim that since there are more of them...that means it's normal to make statements of fact about "chemtrails"...is fucking stupid!

All I'm saying is that there isn't any evidence that anything is purposely being sprayed into the sky as part of any secret program/operation...and everything that is presented as such evidence...is bullshit.

So far. the evidence presented is just evidence that the person presenting it is either stupid, crazy or ignorant.
 Quoting: Noble


I never said a word about chemtrails, but you don't have any evidence that there is a geoengineering program being run using high content sulfur fuel, you just don't know that do you?
SnakeAirlines

User ID: 692219
United States
01/30/2012 11:42 AM

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Re: "Chemtrails" in 1979
Well do you have any evidence to prove otherwise?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9861563


Not the way it works...

Do you have any evidence that there is a massive secret 'spraying operation'?

popcorn
 Quoting: SnakeAirlines


Do you have any evidence to the contrary?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9861563


As I clearly stated, and most sane people understand...

You want me to prove a negative...

Maybe this is easier for you...

When did you stop beating your wife?

popcorn
"Hold my cat while I bring in my tomato plant. That chemtrail looks like an earthquake chemtrail"

deanoZXT-07/20/2014 07:48 PM
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 9048886
United States
01/30/2012 11:45 AM
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Re: "Chemtrails" in 1979
Well do you have any evidence to prove otherwise?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9861563


Not the way it works...

Do you have any evidence that there is a massive secret 'spraying operation'?

popcorn
 Quoting: SnakeAirlines


Hey Snake -

What about Agent Orange during the Vietnam War?

What were the people on the ground - soldiers and civilians alike seeing coming from the planes spraying Agent Oraange - 'contrails' or 'chemical trails"?

During that war it took time before "a massive secret spraying operation" was in fact taking place.

hi
Noble

User ID: 1211465
United States
01/30/2012 11:46 AM
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Re: "Chemtrails" in 1979
...


So?
 Quoting: Noble


It's a possiblity that it is already being done and you and I would be none the wiser, except of course for a few more persistent contrails.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9861563


And that's my point...pointing at the trails and making the claim that since there are more of them...that means it's normal to make statements of fact about "chemtrails"...is fucking stupid!

All I'm saying is that there isn't any evidence that anything is purposely being sprayed into the sky as part of any secret program/operation...and everything that is presented as such evidence...is bullshit.

So far. the evidence presented is just evidence that the person presenting it is either stupid, crazy or ignorant.
 Quoting: Noble


I never said a word about chemtrails, but you don't have any evidence that there is a geoengineering program being run using high content sulfur fuel, you just don't know that do you?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9861563


I see no evidence that anything of the sort is happening.
Favorite Karma:


12/21/2012 "Can you admit you are a shill?"

No, I can't. Because that would be a lie.

Can you admit that you are a gullible loser?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 9861563
United Kingdom
01/30/2012 11:46 AM
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Re: "Chemtrails" in 1979
Anyway guys I'm busy and I don't have time to argue about something that you guys cannot prove, but until you can I'll catch you later.
Anonymous Coward
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United Kingdom
01/30/2012 11:48 AM
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Re: "Chemtrails" in 1979
Well do you have any evidence to prove otherwise?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9861563


Not the way it works...

Do you have any evidence that there is a massive secret 'spraying operation'?

popcorn
 Quoting: SnakeAirlines


Do you have any evidence to the contrary?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9861563


As I clearly stated, and most sane people understand...

You want me to prove a negative...

Maybe this is easier for you...

When did you stop beating your wife?

popcorn
 Quoting: SnakeAirlines


Ah I see, when you are losing hurl the insults, I didn't realise this was the school playground.
Noble

User ID: 1211465
United States
01/30/2012 11:49 AM
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Re: "Chemtrails" in 1979
Well do you have any evidence to prove otherwise?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9861563


Not the way it works...

Do you have any evidence that there is a massive secret 'spraying operation'?

popcorn
 Quoting: SnakeAirlines


Hey Snake -

What about Agent Orange during the Vietnam War?

What were the people on the ground - soldiers and civilians alike seeing coming from the planes spraying Agent Oraange - 'contrails' or 'chemical trails"?

During that war it took time before "a massive secret spraying operation" was in fact taking place.

hi
 Quoting: soulJAH


When agent orange was released...it looked nothing like the trails we see in the sky.

And so what...what makes that any kind of evidence for what MAY BE happening now?!

Oh, the old..."They did it before...they MUST be doing it now" brand of evidence?!?
Favorite Karma:


12/21/2012 "Can you admit you are a shill?"

No, I can't. Because that would be a lie.

Can you admit that you are a gullible loser?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 9048886
United States
01/30/2012 11:54 AM
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Re: "Chemtrails" in 1979
Well do you have any evidence to prove otherwise?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9861563


Not the way it works...

Do you have any evidence that there is a massive secret 'spraying operation'?

popcorn
 Quoting: SnakeAirlines


Hey Snake -

What about Agent Orange during the Vietnam War?

What were the people on the ground - soldiers and civilians alike seeing coming from the planes spraying Agent Oraange - 'contrails' or 'chemical trails"?

During that war it took time before "a massive secret spraying operation" was in fact taking place.

hi
 Quoting: soulJAH


When agent orange was released...it looked nothing like the trails we see in the sky.

And so what...what makes that any kind of evidence for what MAY BE happening now?!

Oh, the old..."They did it before...they MUST be doing it now" brand of evidence?!?
 Quoting: Noble


Your right - each "chemical" mixture will produce different results in the atmosphere.

The point remains that people in Vietnam witnessed chemicals being sprayed from airplanes - i.e "chemtrails".

The premise remains the same - the chemical compounds and how they manifest in the sky and on the ground is the only thing which has changed.

And yes, the government secretly sprayed chemicals on soldiers and civilians alike, then derailed any sort of help for the soldiers who were sprayed - secretly.
SnakeAirlines

User ID: 692219
United States
01/30/2012 11:56 AM

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Re: "Chemtrails" in 1979
Well do you have any evidence to prove otherwise?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9861563


Not the way it works...

Do you have any evidence that there is a massive secret 'spraying operation'?

popcorn
 Quoting: SnakeAirlines


Hey Snake -

What about Agent Orange during the Vietnam War?

What were the people on the ground - soldiers and civilians alike seeing coming from the planes spraying Agent Oraange - 'contrails' or 'chemical trails"?

During that war it took time before "a massive secret spraying operation" was in fact taking place.

hi
 Quoting: soulJAH


Sorry...

I don't get your point, if you have one...AO was sprayed usually on the deck (150 feet with 10mph wind)...It looked nothing like 'contrails'...

Who exactly was the agent orange a 'secret' to?

Certainly not the military, and certainly not to the North Vietnamese, Chinese, Russians, Cambodians, Laotians, Hmong, and on and on...
"Hold my cat while I bring in my tomato plant. That chemtrail looks like an earthquake chemtrail"

deanoZXT-07/20/2014 07:48 PM
SnakeAirlines

User ID: 692219
United States
01/30/2012 11:57 AM

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Re: "Chemtrails" in 1979
Ah I see, when you are losing hurl the insults, I didn't realise this was the school playground.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9861563


putin

I mean...I knew you were not the brightest bulb on the strand, but...

The 'point' that went over your bald little pate, is that you can not prove a negative...

Thanks for playing...

pick
"Hold my cat while I bring in my tomato plant. That chemtrail looks like an earthquake chemtrail"

deanoZXT-07/20/2014 07:48 PM
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 9048886
United States
01/30/2012 12:00 PM
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Re: "Chemtrails" in 1979
Well do you have any evidence to prove otherwise?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9861563


Not the way it works...

Do you have any evidence that there is a massive secret 'spraying operation'?

popcorn
 Quoting: SnakeAirlines


Hey Snake -

What about Agent Orange during the Vietnam War?

What were the people on the ground - soldiers and civilians alike seeing coming from the planes spraying Agent Oraange - 'contrails' or 'chemical trails"?

During that war it took time before "a massive secret spraying operation" was in fact taking place.

hi
 Quoting: soulJAH


Sorry...

I don't get your point, if you have one...AO was sprayed usually on the deck (150 feet with 10mph wind)...It looked nothing like 'contrails'...

Who exactly was the agent orange a 'secret' to?

Certainly not the military, and certainly not to the North Vietnamese, Chinese, Russians, Cambodians, Laotians, Hmong, and on and on...
 Quoting: SnakeAirlines


I am old enough to remember exactly what it looked like coming out of the planes. It looked like chemicals coming out of the back of the planes.

Same as it does today. Only today, it is a more sophisticated version of what we saw in Vietnam. And yes, it was secret for a long time - ask any Vietnam Vet that fought the government for help with the side affects of Agent Orange or had children with birth defects as a result of the parents DNA being affected by Agent Orange.

People are witnessing chemicals being sprayed out of the back of airplanes - 2012. In the 1960's and 1970's people witnessed chemicals being sprayed out of the back of airplanes.

The chemical compounding and the heights of spraying may be different - the premise is the same.
Mickeyblue
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01/30/2012 12:10 PM
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Re: "Chemtrails" in 1979
That is a photo taken in 2005.
Anonymous Coward
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Australia
01/30/2012 12:11 PM
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Re: "Chemtrails" in 1979
That is a photo taken in 2005.
 Quoting: Mickeyblue 9806228


No, it was uploaded in 2005.
SnakeAirlines

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United States
01/30/2012 12:13 PM

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Re: "Chemtrails" in 1979
That is a photo taken in 2005.
 Quoting: Mickeyblue 9806228


Read the thread, Buford pick
"Hold my cat while I bring in my tomato plant. That chemtrail looks like an earthquake chemtrail"

deanoZXT-07/20/2014 07:48 PM
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 2674622
United States
01/30/2012 12:17 PM
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Re: "Chemtrails" in 1979
Well do you have any evidence to prove otherwise?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9861563


Not the way it works...

Do you have any evidence that there is a massive secret 'spraying operation'?

popcorn
 Quoting: SnakeAirlines


Hey Snake -

What about Agent Orange during the Vietnam War?

What were the people on the ground - soldiers and civilians alike seeing coming from the planes spraying Agent Oraange - 'contrails' or 'chemical trails"?

During that war it took time before "a massive secret spraying operation" was in fact taking place.

hi
 Quoting: soulJAH


They did not spray agent orange from 30,000 feet. It was done at low altitudes.
SnakeAirlines

User ID: 692219
United States
01/30/2012 12:18 PM

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Re: "Chemtrails" in 1979
I am old enough to remember exactly what it looked like coming out of the planes. It looked like chemicals coming out of the back of the planes.

 Quoting: soulJAH


Exactly...

And contrails don't form till almost a wingspan behind the engines...

Thanks for proving my point...

And if you were really in country, thanks for your service...
"Hold my cat while I bring in my tomato plant. That chemtrail looks like an earthquake chemtrail"

deanoZXT-07/20/2014 07:48 PM
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 2674622
United States
01/30/2012 12:21 PM
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Re: "Chemtrails" in 1979
...


Not the way it works...

Do you have any evidence that there is a massive secret 'spraying operation'?

popcorn
 Quoting: SnakeAirlines


Do you have any evidence to the contrary?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9861563


As I clearly stated, and most sane people understand...

You want me to prove a negative...

Maybe this is easier for you...

When did you stop beating your wife?

popcorn
 Quoting: SnakeAirlines


Ah I see, when you are losing hurl the insults, I didn't realise this was the school playground.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9861563


It was clearly an example of what is called a loaded question and not an insult.
Ac
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01/30/2012 12:23 PM
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Re: "Chemtrails" in 1979
It does not surprise me that someone in the military cannot grasp the obvious, but it does frighten me! Actually after theybought the WMD scenario nothing they do or say surprises me.