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TRUMPET SOUNDS - The Order of Revelation's 21 Plages. Things won't go down consecutively as it's written.

 
Anonymous Coward
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TRUMPET SOUNDS - The Order of Revelation's 21 Plages. Things won't go down consecutively as it's written.
The 21 plagues of Revelation are found written in order, beginning with the seven Seals in order, followed by the seven Trumpets in order, and concluded by the seven Bowls in order. However, an analysis of the plagues' written contents will reveal something that is contrary...some of the Trumpets and Bowls actually coming to pass before some of the Seals, and some of the Bowls coming to pass before some of the Trumpets!

Therefore, as much as this might rub us the wrong way, the written order does not represent the sequence in which the plagues will one day befall the earth.

---

How did Paul know, prior to the writing of Revelation, that the resurrection-rapture would occur at the last trumpet? Aside from Divine Inspiration, he had the Word of God to go on, as he knew from Daniel 12 and from the Olivet Discourse of Jesus that the resurrection-rapture would be at Armageddon, which is the end of current history, meaning that there could not be any trumpets thereafter. But if he thought that the resurrection-rapture would occur years prior to Armageddon, he would not have called it the "last." Nor would Divine Inspiration have allowed it.

If further proof of the post-trib' nature of the last Revelation Trumpet is required, it is available. Consider that since it occurs after the Two Witnesses are killed, it must be post-tribulational, for the Two Witnesses are killed after their 1260-day ministry. Thus, pre-tribbers are prone to distort this text too, suggesting that the 1260 days associated with the Two Witnesses represent the first half of the Week. But the Two Witnesses are introduced in a verse immediately following the 42-month trampling of Jerusalem, and everyone knows that the trampling of Jerusalem is in the second half of the Week.

Thus, the Two Witnesses are going to be a direct testimony against those who trample Jerusalem, meaning that their 1260-day ministry must also take place in the latter half of the Week. Certainly, God is not going from the second half of the Week in one verse to the first half of the Week in the very next verse. Therefore, beware of those (mid-tribbers included) who place the ministry of the Two Witnesses in the first half of the Week, for they do this without textual justification merely to avoid a post-trib' 7th Trumpet.

Behold. After the 4th Trumpet, with three remaining Trumpets yet to sound, an eagle flying in mid-air cries out:

"Woe! Woe! Woe!...because of the remaining trumpet blasts of the three angels about to blast."

The meaning is clear: each Woe equals one trumpet blast. After the details of the 5th Trumpet are given, the text reads, "The first woe is past." After outlining plagues of the 6th Trumpet, as well as the resurrections of the Two Witnesses and the Jerusalem earthquake, the text reads, "The second woe has passed. Behold, the third woe is coming quickly. The seventh angel sounded his trumpet..." (11:14-15).

So, then, make no mistake about it, the third Woe and the 7th Trumpet are one and the same. And if the second woe is post-tribulational because it includes the Jerusalem earthquake occurring after the deaths of the Two Witnesses, then the subsequent third Woe/7th Trumpet must be more post-trib still.

A NEW SEQUENCE

Let me finally reveal a sequential system of the 21 plagues that I believe is correct. In it, the plagues are arranged in triplets, forming seven basic plagues in all. The sequence is read horizontally so that a Trumpet always follows a Seal and a Bowl always follows a Trumpet:

1st Seal, 1st Trumpet, and 1st Bowl
2nd Seal, 2nd Trumpet, and 2nd Bowl
3rd Seal, 3rd Trumpet, and 3rd Bowl
4th Seal, 4th Trumpet, and 4th Bowl
5th Seal, 5th Trumpet, and 5th Bowl--end of 42 months and start of post-trib' period
6th Seal, 6th Trumpet, and 6th Bowl
7th Seal, 7th Trumpet, and 7th Bowl

As you can see, the structure of this system is rigid; one cannot move any plague from the sandwiched position into which it is locked. As each Trumpet is located between a Seal and a Bowl, so (most) every Bowl is located between a Trumpet and a Seal, while (most) every Seal is located between a Bowl and a Trumpet. If any one plague can be shown not to fit this arrangement, then the entire system falls apart. If there were any doubts in my mind as to the viability of this system, I would not be presenting it to the public as anything worthy. There are but two minor problems which I can overcome to my satisfaction, while there are quite a few intriguing keys which make the system work surprisingly well.

[link to www.tribwatch.com]
Lemon

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01/24/2012 11:44 PM

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Re: TRUMPET SOUNDS - The Order of Revelation's 21 Plages. Things won't go down consecutively as it's written.
bump
**I'm all out of bubblegum
A Few Good Women

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Re: TRUMPET SOUNDS - The Order of Revelation's 21 Plages. Things won't go down consecutively as it's written.
I wish religiontards would stop posting shit that no one will read...btw...I have a Bible...you could just post what scripture you are referring to...I still won't read it.

News Flash:
The Bible has been translated upteen times from upteen languages by men.
"A Few Good Women"

Land of the Free, Home of the Crazy
The Fewer, the Prouder, the Women Marines.

Nuff said.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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Re: TRUMPET SOUNDS - The Order of Revelation's 21 Plages. Things won't go down consecutively as it's written.
[link to www.tribwatch.com]

I see strong concord in the triplet system. The same-numbered Trumpets and Bowls share similarities. For example, the 1st Trumpet and 1st Bowl are both plagues on the LAND; the 2nd Trumpet and 2nd Bowl are both plagues on the SEA; the 3rd Trumpet and 3rd Bowl are both plagues on the RIVERS; the 4th Trumpet and 4th Bowl are both plagues on the ATMOSPHERE; the 5th Trumpet and 5th Bowl are both plagues on the BEAST'S KINGDOM; etc, just as if each Bowl finishes what its corresponding Trumpet begins. In fact, it has occurred to me that each Seal = one (corresponding) Trumpet and one (corresponding) Bowl.

That is, the opening of the 7th Seal unleashes the 7th Trumpet and 7th Bowl so as to cover two phases of Armageddon; the 6th Seal unleashes the 6th Trumpet and 6th Bowl and therefore covers the upper-Euphrates river region on the one hand and later northern Israel on the other; the 5th Seal doesn't appear as a plague against the world but never the less unleashes the 5th Trumpet and 5th Bowl and thereby covers the Beast's kingdom in/around Iraq (that location is my personal theory); in the 4th Triplet, the atmosphere is apparently filled with much debris in the 4th Bowl as a result of the 4th Trumpet; etc. Again, these similarities show continuity from Trumpet to Bowl and supports their back-to-back positions.

All the Trumpets appear to represent warfare; this is a Biblically-sound idea. Each Bowl can then be viewed as end-results of corresponding Trumpets. Indeed, the Bowls are Said to represent the completion of wrath:

"...the seven last plagues [Bowls], because in them the wrath of God is completed" (15:1).

This quote is thought by virtually everyone to mean that the Bowls occur last of all, after all the Seals and all the Trumpets. However, in light of all the evidence which so strongly demands a rejection of the consecutive order, the Bowls must be last in quite a different way. In the Triplet system, the Bowls are last only inasmuch as they are last in each triplet, wherefore they cap the wrath of God in each case. If we reject this view, then there develops the problem in having to squeeze all seven Bowls after the 7th (Armageddon) Trumpet, or else do what pre-tribbers do: put the 7th Trumpet illogically midway in the Week.

The book of Revelation does not out-rightly tell us when the 21 plagues begin. Some have them starting centuries ago by tying them to certain historical events. But because the first triplet includes a sore (singular in the Greek text) on those who take the mark of the beast (Rev. 16:2), it would seem that the first triplet, and, therefore, all 21 plagues, begin in the second half of the Week...after the skincode is enforced. On the other hand, the skincode will almost certainly be optional in the first half of the Week so that the plagues may begin then.

It appears that the first triplet occurs in the latter stages of the first half of the Week, and sets in motion the Beast's assault on Israel that is called the "abomination of desolation." It should be said that I am biased towards the idea that all four Horses (i.e. the first four Seals) are plagues on Jerusalem because I see all four in Ezekiel's account of end-time Jerusalem's desolation (chapters 1-11, especially 4-6). But as the first horseman is given a crown, would that not depict the start of the Beasts's 42 months of God-sanctioned authority (Rev.13:5)? If so, then it's the Beast who rides, and he's bent on overcoming Jerusalem. The 3rd Seal/horseman seems to be a reflection of Ezekiel 4:9-17; the 4th Seal/horseman appears equivalent to Ezekiel 5:12-17.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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Re: TRUMPET SOUNDS - The Order of Revelation's 21 Plages. Things won't go down consecutively as it's written.
I wish religiontards would stop posting shit that no one will read...btw...I have a Bible...you could just post what scripture you are referring to...I still won't read it.

News Flash:
The Bible has been translated upteen times from upteen languages by men.
 Quoting: A Few Good Women


it's interesting that you speak for EVERYONE.
TXGal4Truth

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Re: TRUMPET SOUNDS - The Order of Revelation's 21 Plages. Things won't go down consecutively as it's written.
Very true Salt. 5 stars and Green for you!
So have I now become your enemy for telling you the TRUTH? Galatians 4:16
************************************
“Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who sets the planets in motion.” ~Isaac Newton
************************************
We are called to be BOLD. ~Joshua 1:9~
************************************
You call me paranoid. I call you uninformed.

tgdmwt
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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Re: TRUMPET SOUNDS - The Order of Revelation's 21 Plages. Things won't go down consecutively as it's written.
Very true Salt. 5 stars and Green for you!
 Quoting: TXGal4Truth


thank you!
Anonymous Coward
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Re: TRUMPET SOUNDS - The Order of Revelation's 21 Plages. Things won't go down consecutively as it's written.
Oh new sequence.....
8th Seal, 8th Trumpet, and 8th Bowl of cerial. Duh, why couldn't I have come up with that. Truly makes a lot of sense. Clearly going to help mankind. CLEARLY.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: TRUMPET SOUNDS - The Order of Revelation's 21 Plages. Things won't go down consecutively as it's written.
I wish religiontards would stop posting shit that no one will read...btw...I have a Bible...you could just post what scripture you are referring to...I still won't read it.

News Flash:
The Bible has been translated upteen times from upteen languages by men.
 Quoting: A Few Good Women


Trust us religion won't miss your ignorant ass either!
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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Re: TRUMPET SOUNDS - The Order of Revelation's 21 Plages. Things won't go down consecutively as it's written.
the SEVEN SEALS

1. Rev 6:1-2

The White Horse. The Antichrist comes forth. He has a bow, but no arrows are mentioned. A crown is given to him. He goes forth conquering and to conquer.

2. Rev 6:3-4

The Red Horse. War.
That they should take peace from the earth. He has a great sword.

3. Rev 6:5-6

The Black Horse. Famine.
A day’s wages for a day’s food. Hurt not the oil and the wine.

4. Rev 6:7-8

The Pale Horse. Death. One-fourth of the earth’s population is killed. Hell followed with him. Kill with the sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts.

5. Rev 6:9-11

Martyrdom. They that were slain for the Word of God and for their testimony. They are given white robes.

6. Rev 6:12-17

Great Earthquake. The sun black and moon as blood. The stars of heaven (angels) fell. Heaven departed as a scroll. Every mountain and island was moved. Multitudes hid. The great day of His wrath is come.


7. Rev 8:1

Silence in Heaven—
about the space of half an hour.

[link to so4j.com]
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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Re: TRUMPET SOUNDS - The Order of Revelation's 21 Plages. Things won't go down consecutively as it's written.
THE SEVEN TRUMPETS

1. Rev 8:6-7

Hail and fire mingled with blood.
A Third part of the trees burned up. All green grass burned up.

2. Rev 8:8-9

A Great Mountain burning with fire cast into the sea.
A Third part of the sea became blood.

3. Rev 8:10-11

A great star from heaven fell
upon the Third part of the rivers and fountains of waters

4. Rev 8:12

Third part of the sun, moon, and stars smitten.
The day and the night shone not for a Third part of it.

5. Rev 9:1-12

First woe. Locusts. A star from heaven (an angel) was given the key to the bottomless pit. The pit opened. Locusts came upon the earth. They hurt men (they sting them) that do not have the seal of God in their foreheads for Five Months.

6. Rev 9:13-21

Second woe. Loose the four angels bound in the river Euphrates. A third part of men were killed. The army of the horsemen was two hundred million. People repented not. Second woe is past Rev 11:14.


7. Rev 10:7
- Rev 11:15-19

Third woe. When he shall begin to sound, the Mystery of God should be finished. The Kingdoms of this world are become the Kingdoms of our Lord. He shall reign. Thy wrath is come. The temple of God opened in heaven. Lightnings, Voices, Thunderings, an Earthquake, and Great hail.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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Re: TRUMPET SOUNDS - The Order of Revelation's 21 Plages. Things won't go down consecutively as it's written.
the SEVEN BOWLS

1. Rev 16:2

Sores. Noisome and Grievous sores upon them that had the mark of the beast and worshiped his image.

2. Rev 16:3

Sea as blood. The sea became as the blood of a dead man.
Every living soul in the sea died.

3. Rev 16:4

Fountains blood.
The rivers and fountains of waters became blood.

4. Rev 16:8-9

Great heat. Vial poured out upon the sun.
Men scorched with great heat.

5. Rev 16:10-11

Darkness. Vial poured out upon the seat of the beast. His kingdom is full of darkness; they gnawed their tongues for pain.

6. Rev 16:12

Eurphrates River -
The Euphrates River dries up.

7. Rev 16:17-21

It is done. Voices, and thunders, and lightnings, and the Greatest Earthquake. Jerusalem divided into three parts. The cities of the nations fell. Every island fled away. The mountains were not found. There was great hail.

[link to so4j.com]
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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Re: TRUMPET SOUNDS - The Order of Revelation's 21 Plages. Things won't go down consecutively as it's written.
ok, so it will look like this:

1st Seal, 1st Trumpet, and 1st Bowl

Rev 6:1-2

The White Horse. The Antichrist comes forth. He has a bow, but no arrows are mentioned. A crown is given to him. He goes forth conquering and to conquer.

Rev 8:6-7

Hail and fire mingled with blood.
A Third part of the trees burned up. All green grass burned up.

Rev 16:2

Sores. Noisome and Grievous sores upon them that had the mark of the beast and worshiped his image.


2nd Seal, 2nd Trumpet, and 2nd Bowl

Rev 6:3-4

The Red Horse. War.
That they should take peace from the earth. He has a great sword.

Rev 8:8-9

A Great Mountain burning with fire cast into the sea.
A Third part of the sea became blood.

Rev 16:3

Sea as blood. The sea became as the blood of a dead man.
Every living soul in the sea died.

...and so on...
Anonymous Coward
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Re: TRUMPET SOUNDS - The Order of Revelation's 21 Plages. Things won't go down consecutively as it's written.
beloved, that book is corrupted and around 75% isn't even there. And some of the rest has been mistranslated etc. Of course some of it is true but its repetitive and boring and a goodly portion of what survived, it not intelligible.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: TRUMPET SOUNDS - The Order of Revelation's 21 Plages. Things won't go down consecutively as it's written.
The 21 plagues of Revelation are found written in order, beginning with the seven Seals in order, followed by the seven Trumpets in order, and concluded by the seven Bowls in order. However, an analysis of the plagues' written contents will reveal something that is contrary...some of the Trumpets and Bowls actually coming to pass before some of the Seals, and some of the Bowls coming to pass before some of the Trumpets!

Therefore, as much as this might rub us the wrong way, the written order does not represent the sequence in which the plagues will one day befall the earth.

---

How did Paul know, prior to the writing of Revelation, that the resurrection-rapture would occur at the last trumpet? Aside from Divine Inspiration, he had the Word of God to go on, as he knew from Daniel 12 and from the Olivet Discourse of Jesus that the resurrection-rapture would be at Armageddon, which is the end of current history, meaning that there could not be any trumpets thereafter. But if he thought that the resurrection-rapture would occur years prior to Armageddon, he would not have called it the "last." Nor would Divine Inspiration have allowed it.

If further proof of the post-trib' nature of the last Revelation Trumpet is required, it is available. Consider that since it occurs after the Two Witnesses are killed, it must be post-tribulational, for the Two Witnesses are killed after their 1260-day ministry. Thus, pre-tribbers are prone to distort this text too, suggesting that the 1260 days associated with the Two Witnesses represent the first half of the Week. But the Two Witnesses are introduced in a verse immediately following the 42-month trampling of Jerusalem, and everyone knows that the trampling of Jerusalem is in the second half of the Week.

Thus, the Two Witnesses are going to be a direct testimony against those who trample Jerusalem, meaning that their 1260-day ministry must also take place in the latter half of the Week. Certainly, God is not going from the second half of the Week in one verse to the first half of the Week in the very next verse. Therefore, beware of those (mid-tribbers included) who place the ministry of the Two Witnesses in the first half of the Week, for they do this without textual justification merely to avoid a post-trib' 7th Trumpet.

Behold. After the 4th Trumpet, with three remaining Trumpets yet to sound, an eagle flying in mid-air cries out:

"Woe! Woe! Woe!...because of the remaining trumpet blasts of the three angels about to blast."

The meaning is clear: each Woe equals one trumpet blast. After the details of the 5th Trumpet are given, the text reads, "The first woe is past." After outlining plagues of the 6th Trumpet, as well as the resurrections of the Two Witnesses and the Jerusalem earthquake, the text reads, "The second woe has passed. Behold, the third woe is coming quickly. The seventh angel sounded his trumpet..." (11:14-15).

So, then, make no mistake about it, the third Woe and the 7th Trumpet are one and the same. And if the second woe is post-tribulational because it includes the Jerusalem earthquake occurring after the deaths of the Two Witnesses, then the subsequent third Woe/7th Trumpet must be more post-trib still.

A NEW SEQUENCE

Let me finally reveal a sequential system of the 21 plagues that I believe is correct. In it, the plagues are arranged in triplets, forming seven basic plagues in all. The sequence is read horizontally so that a Trumpet always follows a Seal and a Bowl always follows a Trumpet:

1st Seal, 1st Trumpet, and 1st Bowl
2nd Seal, 2nd Trumpet, and 2nd Bowl
3rd Seal, 3rd Trumpet, and 3rd Bowl
4th Seal, 4th Trumpet, and 4th Bowl
5th Seal, 5th Trumpet, and 5th Bowl--end of 42 months and start of post-trib' period
6th Seal, 6th Trumpet, and 6th Bowl
7th Seal, 7th Trumpet, and 7th Bowl

As you can see, the structure of this system is rigid; one cannot move any plague from the sandwiched position into which it is locked. As each Trumpet is located between a Seal and a Bowl, so (most) every Bowl is located between a Trumpet and a Seal, while (most) every Seal is located between a Bowl and a Trumpet. If any one plague can be shown not to fit this arrangement, then the entire system falls apart. If there were any doubts in my mind as to the viability of this system, I would not be presenting it to the public as anything worthy. There are but two minor problems which I can overcome to my satisfaction, while there are quite a few intriguing keys which make the system work surprisingly well.

[link to www.tribwatch.com]
 Quoting: Salt


bump For truth
Anonymous Coward
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Re: TRUMPET SOUNDS - The Order of Revelation's 21 Plages. Things won't go down consecutively as it's written.
The 21 plagues of Revelation are found written in order, beginning with the seven Seals in order, followed by the seven Trumpets in order, and concluded by the seven Bowls in order. However, an analysis of the plagues' written contents will reveal something that is contrary...some of the Trumpets and Bowls actually coming to pass before some of the Seals, and some of the Bowls coming to pass before some of the Trumpets!

Therefore, as much as this might rub us the wrong way, the written order does not represent the sequence in which the plagues will one day befall the earth.

---

How did Paul know, prior to the writing of Revelation, that the resurrection-rapture would occur at the last trumpet? Aside from Divine Inspiration, he had the Word of God to go on, as he knew from Daniel 12 and from the Olivet Discourse of Jesus that the resurrection-rapture would be at Armageddon, which is the end of current history, meaning that there could not be any trumpets thereafter. But if he thought that the resurrection-rapture would occur years prior to Armageddon, he would not have called it the "last." Nor would Divine Inspiration have allowed it.

If further proof of the post-trib' nature of the last Revelation Trumpet is required, it is available. Consider that since it occurs after the Two Witnesses are killed, it must be post-tribulational, for the Two Witnesses are killed after their 1260-day ministry. Thus, pre-tribbers are prone to distort this text too, suggesting that the 1260 days associated with the Two Witnesses represent the first half of the Week. But the Two Witnesses are introduced in a verse immediately following the 42-month trampling of Jerusalem, and everyone knows that the trampling of Jerusalem is in the second half of the Week.

Thus, the Two Witnesses are going to be a direct testimony against those who trample Jerusalem, meaning that their 1260-day ministry must also take place in the latter half of the Week. Certainly, God is not going from the second half of the Week in one verse to the first half of the Week in the very next verse. Therefore, beware of those (mid-tribbers included) who place the ministry of the Two Witnesses in the first half of the Week, for they do this without textual justification merely to avoid a post-trib' 7th Trumpet.

Behold. After the 4th Trumpet, with three remaining Trumpets yet to sound, an eagle flying in mid-air cries out:

"Woe! Woe! Woe!...because of the remaining trumpet blasts of the three angels about to blast."

The meaning is clear: each Woe equals one trumpet blast. After the details of the 5th Trumpet are given, the text reads, "The first woe is past." After outlining plagues of the 6th Trumpet, as well as the resurrections of the Two Witnesses and the Jerusalem earthquake, the text reads, "The second woe has passed. Behold, the third woe is coming quickly. The seventh angel sounded his trumpet..." (11:14-15).

So, then, make no mistake about it, the third Woe and the 7th Trumpet are one and the same. And if the second woe is post-tribulational because it includes the Jerusalem earthquake occurring after the deaths of the Two Witnesses, then the subsequent third Woe/7th Trumpet must be more post-trib still.

A NEW SEQUENCE

Let me finally reveal a sequential system of the 21 plagues that I believe is correct. In it, the plagues are arranged in triplets, forming seven basic plagues in all. The sequence is read horizontally so that a Trumpet always follows a Seal and a Bowl always follows a Trumpet:

1st Seal, 1st Trumpet, and 1st Bowl
2nd Seal, 2nd Trumpet, and 2nd Bowl
3rd Seal, 3rd Trumpet, and 3rd Bowl
4th Seal, 4th Trumpet, and 4th Bowl
5th Seal, 5th Trumpet, and 5th Bowl--end of 42 months and start of post-trib' period
6th Seal, 6th Trumpet, and 6th Bowl
7th Seal, 7th Trumpet, and 7th Bowl

As you can see, the structure of this system is rigid; one cannot move any plague from the sandwiched position into which it is locked. As each Trumpet is located between a Seal and a Bowl, so (most) every Bowl is located between a Trumpet and a Seal, while (most) every Seal is located between a Bowl and a Trumpet. If any one plague can be shown not to fit this arrangement, then the entire system falls apart. If there were any doubts in my mind as to the viability of this system, I would not be presenting it to the public as anything worthy. There are but two minor problems which I can overcome to my satisfaction, while there are quite a few intriguing keys which make the system work surprisingly well.

[link to www.tribwatch.com]
 Quoting: Salt


Paul did NOT write revelation, John did....
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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01/25/2012 12:28 AM
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Re: TRUMPET SOUNDS - The Order of Revelation's 21 Plages. Things won't go down consecutively as it's written.
Paul did NOT write revelation, John did....
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9537987


the author of this analysis is referring to this scripture:

"Behold, I tell you a mystery! We shall not all fall asleep, but we all shall be changed...at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound and the dead will be raised..." (I Corin. 15:52).

Read the link that I provided. The entire breakdown of this order is outlined there.
wiede
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01/25/2012 12:33 AM
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Re: TRUMPET SOUNDS - The Order of Revelation's 21 Plages. Things won't go down consecutively as it's written.
I'm hoping u r taking into account the Jewish traditions, on rosh hoshanna when they see the new moon they blow the last trump. They do this every year so I think we shouldn't be so sure we know what and when the last trump is and when its blown.
wiede
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Re: TRUMPET SOUNDS - The Order of Revelation's 21 Plages. Things won't go down consecutively as it's written.
Also rosh hoshanna is the feast no one knows the day or hour of except the father in heaven.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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Re: TRUMPET SOUNDS - The Order of Revelation's 21 Plages. Things won't go down consecutively as it's written.
nobody knows the day or the hour, but at least this gives us a map of what happens and in what order.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: TRUMPET SOUNDS - The Order of Revelation's 21 Plages. Things won't go down consecutively as it's written.
bump
FHL(C) nli
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Re: TRUMPET SOUNDS - The Order of Revelation's 21 Plages. Things won't go down consecutively as it's written.
nobody knows the day or the hour, but at least this gives us a map of what happens and in what order.
 Quoting: Salt


Thank you Salt for this. Lord bless.
Have a question for you, i consistently see people quoting 7 years(ie Jacobs trouble, Daniels last week) as the standard measure to account in Revelation, and its consistent usage of 42 months and times time and half a time, 3.5 years, yet if i add all the references together in Revelation it is more than 7 years(in my view/opinion i suspect we are only looking at 3.5 years/42 months to reach the end of Jacobs trouble), and as far is see it the Lord already fulfilled and completed the first half of Jacobs trouble in His ministry years(3.5), what do you think/believe, TIA
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Re: TRUMPET SOUNDS - The Order of Revelation's 21 Plages. Things won't go down consecutively as it's written.
I also wonder about this global sound phenomena, and could it be that it is a counterfeit process that leads to many hopping on board the"alien ships"?, or is it a precursor to the great and last trump(et) call? There are many interesting theories about it floating around now, but i am interested from the point of view of scripture.
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Re: TRUMPET SOUNDS - The Order of Revelation's 21 Plages. Things won't go down consecutively as it's written.
Is the first trumpet being blown now?

hf
Troubled Waters...

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01/25/2012 08:45 AM
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Re: TRUMPET SOUNDS - The Order of Revelation's 21 Plages. Things won't go down consecutively as it's written.
Also rosh hoshanna is the feast no one knows the day or hour of except the father in heaven.
 Quoting: wiede 9318938


^^^this^^^

Plus there are many scriptures that point to a pre-trib Rapture, as compared to a mid or post trib.

The bottom line is, nobody knows with certainty when the Rapture of the church will be, all we can do is speculate. For all we know the Lord might come today.

Salt, I appreciate your opinions, and the time and efford you put into this thread. Great work!

However it plays out, its important to be prepared for any, and all scenarios. And most important, to keep the faith, know matter how bad it may get.

God Bless you!
hf
DUST TO GLORY!!!
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Re: TRUMPET SOUNDS - The Order of Revelation's 21 Plages. Things won't go down consecutively as it's written.
The rapture must occur prior to the fall of God's Wrath, according to many scriptures, but not prior to the Revelation plagues. even though those plagues are indeed a falling of God's wrath. For, as you must realize, the wrath of God falls at all times, but the wrath that we are to be delivered from, by the rapture, is none other than the Armageddon event; the wrath in the Revelation plagues is not to be included as part of the wrath that the Church is to be delivered from. Pre-wrathers fail us by not realizing this.

Consider the 6th Seal, written as early as the sixth chapter. Although it is found written before any of the Trumpets and Bowls, it describes the self-same, darkening/shaking of the skies found in Matthew 24:29 that Jesus places "after the tribulation."

Because the cosmic disturbances in both the Matthew and 6th-Seal texts are enormous as well as identical, we do well to equate them as being the very same event.

"And I saw when He opened the 6th Seal, and a great earthquake occurred, and the sun became black as sackcloth made of hair, and the whole moon became as blood, and the stars of the sky fell to the earth...and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth and the great men and the chiliarchs and the rich men and the strong men and every slave and free man hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, and they said to the mountains and to the rocks, 'Fall on us and hide us from the face of the one sitting on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb, because the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand'" (6:12-17)

What could be more descriptive of the post-tribulation period than, "every mountain and island were moved out of their places," a catastrophic event that could not occur within the Week because it amounts to a fatal blow on civilization itself? Surely, such a geological shaking would crumble city building after city building, explaining why the peoples seek out caves thereafter.

As long as Hal and others stick to their pre-tribulation rapture, it won't occur to them that the "wrath of the Lamb," a phrase found in the 6th-Seal text that describes a particular/important wrath that arrives only at the arrival of the Seal, is distinctly the wrath of Armageddon. Or, if it can be shown that the 6th Seal is a post-trib plague, then the "wrath of the Lamb" doesn't arrive until after the Week, implying that the wrath is Armageddon. Pre-wrathers get this part correct...but then they wrongly place all the Bowls after the 6th Seal because they interpret the Bowls as wrath that the Church is to be delivered from.

And pre-wrathers, like pre-tribbers, have the sun, moon, and stars darkened twice, as if the 6th Seal was not the darkening of the skies found in Matthew. Jesus in Matthew 24:29 said:

And immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give her light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then will the sign of the Son of Man appear in the sky..."

Make no mistake about it: the events mentioned with the 6th-Seal text are here said to be "after the tribulation" i.e. after the 42-month tribulation of Jerusalem. In this sense, I, too, am pre-wrath, but only if the "wrath" in "pre-wrath" refers solely to Armageddon.

The 5th Trumpet, because it is said to last for a minimum of 5 months, must be sounded before the opening of the 6th Seal, for there are not five months left in current history after the 6th Seal. All that remains is the post-tribulation period lasting a matter of weeks (Daniel 12:11-12), at most 75 days (I think 45). If the 5th Trumpet cannot occur after the 6th Seal, then a completely new sequential system must be drawn up which places the first five Trumpets before the 6th Seal.

[link to www.tribwatch.com]
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Re: TRUMPET SOUNDS - The Order of Revelation's 21 Plages. Things won't go down consecutively as it's written.
I also wonder about this global sound phenomena, and could it be that it is a counterfeit process that leads to many hopping on board the"alien ships"?, or is it a precursor to the great and last trump(et) call? There are many interesting theories about it floating around now, but i am interested from the point of view of scripture.
 Quoting: FHL(C) nli 9208274


i don't give the global sound phenom any validity. more hoax, upon elaborate hoax. i have listened to countless vids, etc on the matter, and it all sounds like man-made industry or machinery. (i live by a train yard, and i could record creepy sounds all day)

and, i don't think there is anything that states that we will necessarily hear the trumpets when they sound. as far as i know they all are heard in Heaven.
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Re: TRUMPET SOUNDS - The Order of Revelation's 21 Plages. Things won't go down consecutively as it's written.
The 6th Trumpet describes a massive Oriental killing machine, on the verge of entering the Israeli theater at the so-called "hour and day and month and year" (Rev.9:15). Surely this Appointed time is associated directly with Armageddon, especially as the incoming soldiers number 200 million while they in turn kill 1/3 of men. To substantiate its timing at Armageddon, the 6th Trumpet is within the "second woe." If the 6th Trumpet is thus post-tribulational (i.e. post-Week), it's back-to-back position with the post-Week 6th Bowl is certain.

The three Woes are all related to the Kings of the East, in my opinion. The first Woe, or the 5th Trumpet, represents the Kings of the East north of Iraq and attacking her to death, which could very well be the explanation for the darkening of the throne of the Beast in the very next plague (the 5th Bowl), in that Iraq acts as the Beast's military headquarters. Remember, Isaiah 14 calls this Beast the "king of Babylon." The Beast is not in Iraq at this time, but possibly in northern Africa as per Daniel 11:40-44.

Due to the great size of their army, the Orientals are easily identified as the "locusts" of Joel, "a great and strong people; there has never been the like, nor shall there ever be again to the years of many generations" (Joel 2:2). God calls these fighters, "His army" (Joel 2:11). Surely, then, the 200 million locusts cannot be unleashed upon Israel's mountains before the Beast's 42 months have fully transpired, for the Orientals come in the power of God specifically to put the Beast to his end.

We see in the 6th Bowl that the Orientals need to have the Euphrates river dried up before they can cross into Israel. Therefore, as the 6th Bowl is revealed as a post-trib' plague on the brink of Armageddon, how can the Orientals cross into Israel to kill 1/3 of men at any time during the Week?

Where some view the 6th Trumpet (the second Woe) as the killing of 1/3 the planet, I merely view it as the "release [of] the four angels which are bound at the great Euphrates river" (9:14). In other words, the killing of 1/3 of men doesn't occur in the scope of the 6th Trumpet, but rather that Trumpet is preparation for the Big Event (i.e. Armageddon) that eventually kills 1/3 of men. The 6th Trumpet plague is therefore the moving of a tremendous number of troops from Iraq and vicinity, to the upper (northern) Euphrates river.

The reading of the 6th Trumpet text suggests that 1/3 of men are destroyed very soon after the Trumpet -- and this is explained on account of Armageddon (the third Woe) being only days away. Thus, all three Woes are caused by the Kings of the East...remembering also that Jesus comes to Jerusalem from the east, no doubt giving the Orientals the inner stuff that leads to a crushing victory over the Arch Enemy. The 6th Bowl is, so to speak, the bundling up of the tares, prior to their burning:

"And the sixth [angel] poured out his bowl onto the great river Euphrates; and its water was dried, in order that the way might be prepared for the kings from the rising of the sun. And I saw out of the mouth of the dragon and out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet three unclean spirits as frogs; for they are spirits of demons performing signs, which go forth unto the kings of the entire inhabited earth, to assemble them to war on the great day of God Almighty [i.e. the Day of the LORD]. Behold, I am coming as a thief: blessed is the one watching and keeping his clothes, lest he walks naked and men see his shame" (Rev. 16:12-15).

Notice that Jesus, as a result of the 6th Bowl, has not yet returned to rapture the Elect. This is because he returns in the 7th Seal, the very next plague. Yes, Jesus will at that time be a plague, the worst of all. Notice that the Return, though post-tribulational, is the one in which Jesus comes imminently, as a thief. Therefore, any attempts to define the Return as a pre-trib event, by force of its Imminence, doesn't fly...unless one can show how the 6th Bowl is a pre-tribulational event (that's impossible).

Is not the implication of the quote above that the Orientals are coming to strip the Beast of his powers, and that this very contest is the basis of Armageddon? The "kings of the entire inhabited earth" would seem to depict the United Nations. In my current opinion, the "dragon" to whom Rome has been Granted (by God) represents the European Union; the "beast" represents a Russio-Arabic alliance, and the "false prophet" represents the United States and/or Britain.

As the Beast (Gog) is finding military success in northern Africa, Daniel says: "But news from the east and from the north shall trouble him. Then he will go out with great fury to destroy and to devote many to destruction" (11:44). Hence, the Beast decides to confront the Orientals, which is why he pitches his command post at Jerusalem (v 45).

Because the soldiers of the Beast repent not of their sins even after 1/3 of them are killed (Rev. 9:20-21), God sends the 7th Bowl to finish the job...which also destroys the Orientals. I view the 7th Trumpet as Armageddon Part One, the Military Affair, while the 7th Bowl is Armageddon Part Two, the Supernatural Affair...at which time the earth shakes and seethes with inner heat, turning the atmosphere into a turbulent weapon with incredibly high cloud formation, enabling ice bombs to form up to two feet in diameter (Rev. 16:21).

[link to www.tribwatch.com]
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Re: TRUMPET SOUNDS - The Order of Revelation's 21 Plages. Things won't go down consecutively as it's written.
THE SEVENTH TRIPLET


The 7th Seal is of very short duration; it's positioned in the triplet system as the 7th Trumpet is "about to sound" (Rev. 10:7). Thus, while the 7th Trumpet must come after the 6th Bowl, an obvious thing that pre-tribbers and pre-wrathers find strange, stranger yet to all prophecy scholars is that the 7th Seal likewise occurs after the 6th Bowl!

5th Seal, 5th Trumpet and 5th Bowl--end of Week and start of post-trib period
6th Seal, 6th Trumpet and 6th Bowl
7th Seal, 7th Trumpet and 7th Bowl

The resurrection-rapture, of course. In the sequence I hold to, the awesome 7th Seal is positioned immediately after the 6th Bowl's preparation for Armageddon but before the 7th Trumpet initiates Armageddon. I submit to you with all logic, therefore, that the 7th Seal is the very day in which "the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky" (Matthew 24:30) -- i.e. the Resurrection-Rapture. It fits perfectly for the rapture to take place at the 7th Seal, as positioned in the list above, just as the seventh Trumpet is "about to sound" (Rev. 10:7). It's now of no wonder that there is "silence in Heaven" (8:1) if the angels are poised to descend to the clouds for a gathering of the Elect. Whom in Heaven would dare be in common conversation then?

As the 7th Seal evolves quickly into the 7th Trumpet, the Ark of the Covenant is seen in an opening of Heaven (Rev. 11:19) i.e. Jesus appears before all the eyes of mankind, along with voices from Heaven and a train of charging angels, all amid tempest and lightning. Thus, during the 7th Seal, all is quiet in the sky, and then suddenly the Noise begins.

Those who say that the seventh Seal is not closely related to Armageddon should take notice of the Armageddon terminology (to be quoted below) written just after the Seal's mention in 5:5. Because of that terminology, I do not believe that the seventh Seal is the prelude to, or the embodiment of, all seven Trumpets. Simply because the seven Trumpets are all written immediately after the seventh Seal does not convince me, for I have learned that the written order is not necessarily the actual order to befall the earth.

Perhaps the best evidence which can be found to prove the close relationship between the 7th Seal, 7th Trumpet, and 7th Bowl, is in the repetition of terms written in conclusion of each one. After the seventh Seal is written, we find that:

"[a censer] was filled with fire from the altar and cast into the earth; and there occurred thunders and voices and lightnings and an earthquake" (8:5).

In conclusion of the seventh Trumpet, it is written:

"And the Temple of God was opened in the sky, and His ark of the covenant was seen in His Temple, and there occurred lightnings and voices and thunders and an earthquake and a great hail" (11:19).

And after the seventh Bowl is poured out, it is written:

"and came a great voice from the throne out of the Temple, saying: It has occurred. And there were lightnings and voices and thunders and a great earthquake occurred, such as never occurred since man has been on earth...and every island fled, and mountains were not found. And a great hail as a talent in size came down out of the sky ..." (16:17-21).

I don't have room to show you here, but see for yourself how these same terms are all found in the Psalm-18 depiction of Jesus' return.

The written order of the 21 plagues therefore carries the reader three times from start to finish of the tribulation period, first by the Seals, then by the Trumpets, and finally by the Bowls. We can therefore expect the rapture to appear written (or implied between the lines) more than once.

[link to www.tribwatch.com]

This is copyrighted information presented under the Fair Use Doctrine of the United States Copyright Act (section 107 of title 17) which states: 'the fair use of a copyrighted work...for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright.' In practice the courts have decided that anything which does not financially harm the copyright holder is fair use.
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Re: TRUMPET SOUNDS - The Order of Revelation's 21 Plages. Things won't go down consecutively as it's written.
The 6th seal ends the tribulation. compare the opening of the 6th seal with Jesus words at Matt 24:29-31. the same events are described. you should consider this and revisit your order. I belive there is some overlap between the events.

May the Lord bless your search.
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01/25/2012 11:16 AM
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Re: TRUMPET SOUNDS - The Order of Revelation's 21 Plages. Things won't go down consecutively as it's written.
The 6th seal ends the tribulation. compare the opening of the 6th seal with Jesus words at Matt 24:29-31. the same events are described. you should consider this and revisit your order. I belive there is some overlap between the events.

May the Lord bless your search.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1529388



it can't be. check this out:

The 6th Seal is more rightly placed as the 16th of 21 plagues so that, without difficulty, it can now become post-tribulational. Because Jesus confirms that the cosmic disruptions inherent in the 6th Seal occur "immediately" after the tribulation of Israel (Matthew 24:29), we can theorize that it's the first plague of the post-tribulation period. If true, the 5th Bowl immediately before it should end the 42-month trampling of Israel. And if we ask whether the written contents of the 5th Bowl substantiate its ending the tribulation period, the answer is overwhelmingly yes, for it says:

"The fifth [angel] poured out his bowl onto the throne of the beast; and its kingdom became darkened..." (16:10).

As an act of God proclaiming an end to the Beast's throne, the 5th Bowl cannot occur until the 42-month trampling of Jerusalem has come to a close, for it is categorically stated that the Beast gets 42 months to exercise his authority/throne (Rev. 13:5). Furthermore, we may not be justified in placing this Bowl after the 42 months; we should instead view it as the very event which puts a close on the official 42-month term, as this is exactly what its wording suggests. It does not mean that the anti-Christ is killed at the 5th Bowl, however, but only that his God-sanctioned rule is over, announced more portentously by the darkening of the cosmos in the subsequent 6th Seal.

THE SIXTH TRIPLET

The 6th Trumpet and 6th Bowl follow the 6th Seal, regardless of the sequential system adopted. However, in the triplet system above, both the Trumpet and the Bowl are situated as near as can be to the 6th Seal. This is very logical in that both the Trumpet and Bowl have to do with the movements of the Kings of the East across the Euphrates river. No one denies that the 6th Bowl is post-Week in timing, but pre-tribulationists place the 6th Trumpet somewhere in the middle of the Week, thus distancing it from Armageddon by some years.

This view leads to the unreasonable teaching being widely propagated, that the killing of 1/3 the planet occurs somewhere in the middle of the Week. But if this is true, then the remaining 2/3 of mankind would be too wounded and disrupted to go on with normal life. Yet this is precisely as pre-tribulationists want you to view the Week, as though it were Armageddon itself, so that they can more-easily convince you that a rapture is needed before the Week.

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