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Why did the jewish people change the genealogy line from paternal to maternal ???

 
glpman

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01/31/2012 08:02 AM
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Re: Why did the jewish people change the genealogy line from paternal to maternal ???
matrilineal descent preceded patriachal order,
when the semites still worshiped the
goddess.
tho not overtly found in the bible, traces
of the old religion linger like the patina
on the pages behind the written word.
 Quoting: xxx 9621682


old religions praised goddesses...thats true
glpman
Bluebird

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01/31/2012 08:20 AM

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Re: Why did the jewish people change the genealogy line from paternal to maternal ???
Eve created Adam, Mary Magdalene created Jesus. . .no genealogy line comes from a man. All men come from a woman.

Women create men. Men would never exist without a woman. Not, one single man. Women are poweful and can create life. Men are . . .
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9263015


bonghit
 Quoting: The Watchman777

Awesome ! Yes, I wish I was smoking pot right now.

So, what do you disagree with ? Please tell me. :)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9263015


Women would not exist if not for Adam .
 Quoting: The Watchman777


Women would not exist if not for GOD! Adam was a mere vehicle to that end and women could have been created in another manner.

So is it women or jewish people you are hatin' on this morning?
One of the most important aspects of conspiracy theories is being able to discern when there isn't one.

Oh yeah, like you'd understand anyway.

Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?. . .J. Handy
Anonymous Coward
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01/31/2012 09:57 AM
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Re: Why did the jewish people change the genealogy line from paternal to maternal ???
I am not an authority in any way but have read alot on this topic. It is understood that we ALL originated from different parts of Africa no matter who we are. The early Jewish lines are traced to along the Nile river in mainly Egypt then they migrated into the middle east. This is off the patralinial topic but I'm just responding to a poster.
Monstrum

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01/31/2012 10:05 AM
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Re: Why did the jewish people change the genealogy line from paternal to maternal ???
Well since i think you are referring to genealogy of Jesus,it is because He didn't have an earthly father and therefore He was traced through the father of His mother,and the father of Joseph who was the legal father of Mary through marriage,which still makes it a paternal genealogy.

Cheers
Isaiah 44:22 I have swept away your offenses like a cloud, your sins like the morning mist. Return to me, for I have redeemed you."
Anonymous Coward
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01/31/2012 10:16 AM
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Re: Why did the jewish people change the genealogy line from paternal to maternal ???
yes and the irony is, the only pure way to determine jewish line is to go back through the direct male line. It has remained unchanged in many despite the diaspora, in father to son.
The Watchman777 (OP)

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01/31/2012 12:35 PM
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Re: Why did the jewish people change the genealogy line from paternal to maternal ???
To be Arab your father must be an Arab. That is the rule.

This was also the rule for the jewish people who were from the same general area and, as many believe, were closely related to Arabs.


The true Hebrew religion was based mainly on the paternal line but it was not only thing that mattered. It was certainly important to the priestly caste.

You were a jewish if your father was a jewish.

The Lemba of South Africa left the middle east over two thousand years ago. They have been proven to be Jewish and their religion states that men are the factor in who is a jewish. No man from an outside tribe may marry into their own. A woman from another tribe could as that is not important.

What we can determine is that the belief was still in practice when the Lemba left Israel. This may have been after the destruction of the second temple but it is not known.

The jewish people who entered into Europe did in fact create the myth. The idea that it was Talmudic in nature is false. A somewhat confusing reference is made to a certain prophets sayings but that is nonsense.

The idea that Jeiwsh women were whores is somewhat true. They were allowed to be the defineing factor because they slept around. The priests knew this and conformed their religion around it thinking it would bring them prosperity if the women were paid for their service or they infiltrated rich and powerful families. This is a belief many a Jewess will still attempt today. Of course it was somewhat meaningless as Jewish women were known then as know for their ugly features and their lack of values and morals. Most European men avoided them like the plague they were and rightly so. Thankfully this meant that most jewish people have the same paternal lineage. It is ont that does link back to the near east and is not part of a European population. This is especially so of the priestly caste but most Jewish men have DNA that is not common in Europe.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 701417


Wow , thank you for this , great contribution .
The Watchman777

"O son of man, I HAVE SET THEE A WATCHMAN unto the house of Israel; therefore thou shalt hear the word at my mouth, and warn them from me... IF THOU DOST NOT SPEAK TO WARN THE WICKED from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but HIS BLOOD WILL I REQUIRE AT THINE HAND... IF THOU WARN THE WICKED of his way to turn from it; if he do not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but THOU HAST DELIVERED THY SOUL..." - Ezekiel 33:7-15
The Watchman777 (OP)

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Re: Why did the jewish people change the genealogy line from paternal to maternal ???
...


bonghit
 Quoting: The Watchman777

Awesome ! Yes, I wish I was smoking pot right now.

So, what do you disagree with ? Please tell me. :)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9263015


Women would not exist if not for Adam .
 Quoting: The Watchman777


Women would not exist if not for GOD! Adam was a mere vehicle to that end and women could have been created in another manner.

So is it women or jewish people you are hatin' on this morning?
 Quoting: Bluebird


Hating ??? Please show me where I am hating , it is called being curious , stop being such a drama-whore !
The Watchman777

"O son of man, I HAVE SET THEE A WATCHMAN unto the house of Israel; therefore thou shalt hear the word at my mouth, and warn them from me... IF THOU DOST NOT SPEAK TO WARN THE WICKED from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but HIS BLOOD WILL I REQUIRE AT THINE HAND... IF THOU WARN THE WICKED of his way to turn from it; if he do not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but THOU HAST DELIVERED THY SOUL..." - Ezekiel 33:7-15
Anonymous Coward
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01/31/2012 12:48 PM
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Re: Why did the jewish people change the genealogy line from paternal to maternal ???
Hmmmm...kinda like the Catholics putting their worship behind Mary...her Son, not so much?

1dunno1
The Watchman777 (OP)

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01/31/2012 12:50 PM
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Re: Why did the jewish people change the genealogy line from paternal to maternal ???
I have seen some research done concerning the Khazar theories. From what I understand, the DNA doesn't hold up. Khazar populations have their own genotypes and very little evidence and intermingling has been found in the jewish population studies.
Quoting a book from 1971 just doesn't cut it in light of current advances in genetic research.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6806608


Both of the links I posted relate to recent studies .
The Watchman777

"O son of man, I HAVE SET THEE A WATCHMAN unto the house of Israel; therefore thou shalt hear the word at my mouth, and warn them from me... IF THOU DOST NOT SPEAK TO WARN THE WICKED from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but HIS BLOOD WILL I REQUIRE AT THINE HAND... IF THOU WARN THE WICKED of his way to turn from it; if he do not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but THOU HAST DELIVERED THY SOUL..." - Ezekiel 33:7-15
The Watchman777 (OP)

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Re: Why did the jewish people change the genealogy line from paternal to maternal ???
yes, they did ... they hijacked Christianity

they are khazars pretending to be Israel ...but are satan, the adversary


Rev 2:9 and 3:9

I know the blasphemy of them who say they are jewish people, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
 Quoting: Irishkraut


Could well be , those verses from Revelation really make you wonder .
The Watchman777

"O son of man, I HAVE SET THEE A WATCHMAN unto the house of Israel; therefore thou shalt hear the word at my mouth, and warn them from me... IF THOU DOST NOT SPEAK TO WARN THE WICKED from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but HIS BLOOD WILL I REQUIRE AT THINE HAND... IF THOU WARN THE WICKED of his way to turn from it; if he do not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but THOU HAST DELIVERED THY SOUL..." - Ezekiel 33:7-15
Mickeyblue
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01/31/2012 12:52 PM
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Re: Why did the jewish people change the genealogy line from paternal to maternal ???
Genesis dealt through the paternal line due to men marrying or having additional women that were not their wives who bore them children and often you will note the mentioning of the maternal line as well. Important and unmentioned by poster is the fact that Jesus was to come down via Eve (maternal line) and eventually through the root of Jesse and ending with Mary (maternal line, again). The house of David.

Mothers are the only ones who know who the father is .
The Watchman777 (OP)

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Re: Why did the jewish people change the genealogy line from paternal to maternal ???
I know your afflictions and your poverty--yet you are rich! I know the slander of those who say they are jewish people and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan. Revelation 2:9

I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be jewish people though they are not, but are liars--I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you. Revelation 3:9

The Watchman777

"O son of man, I HAVE SET THEE A WATCHMAN unto the house of Israel; therefore thou shalt hear the word at my mouth, and warn them from me... IF THOU DOST NOT SPEAK TO WARN THE WICKED from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but HIS BLOOD WILL I REQUIRE AT THINE HAND... IF THOU WARN THE WICKED of his way to turn from it; if he do not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but THOU HAST DELIVERED THY SOUL..." - Ezekiel 33:7-15
The Watchman777 (OP)

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01/31/2012 12:54 PM
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Re: Why did the jewish people change the genealogy line from paternal to maternal ???
Genesis dealt through the paternal line due to men marrying or having additional women that were not their wives who bore them children and often you will note the mentioning of the maternal line as well. Important and unmentioned by poster is the fact that Jesus was to come down via Eve (maternal line) and eventually through the root of Jesse and ending with Mary (maternal line, again). The house of David.

Mothers are the only ones who know who the father is .
 Quoting: Mickeyblue 9806228


Thanks .
The Watchman777

"O son of man, I HAVE SET THEE A WATCHMAN unto the house of Israel; therefore thou shalt hear the word at my mouth, and warn them from me... IF THOU DOST NOT SPEAK TO WARN THE WICKED from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but HIS BLOOD WILL I REQUIRE AT THINE HAND... IF THOU WARN THE WICKED of his way to turn from it; if he do not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but THOU HAST DELIVERED THY SOUL..." - Ezekiel 33:7-15
The Watchman777 (OP)

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01/31/2012 12:59 PM
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Re: Why did the jewish people change the genealogy line from paternal to maternal ???
Check this out . Maybe another piece of the puzzle .

In Genesis 3:15a He said, "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed." Enmity means mutual hatred. He is saying there is mutual hatred between the seedline of Satan's and the seedline of Eve's. So there are two seedlines. The serpent seed started with Cain and Adam's seed started with Seth. No matter how they have tried to cover it up in the KJV, the Dead Sea Scrolls and even verses such as Gen. 3:15 make it clear that Satan had his own seedline and it started back with Eve.

[link to www.hiddencodes.com]

Last Edited by The Watchman777 on 01/31/2012 01:11 PM
The Watchman777

"O son of man, I HAVE SET THEE A WATCHMAN unto the house of Israel; therefore thou shalt hear the word at my mouth, and warn them from me... IF THOU DOST NOT SPEAK TO WARN THE WICKED from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but HIS BLOOD WILL I REQUIRE AT THINE HAND... IF THOU WARN THE WICKED of his way to turn from it; if he do not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but THOU HAST DELIVERED THY SOUL..." - Ezekiel 33:7-15
Anonymous Coward
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01/31/2012 01:05 PM
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Re: Why did the jewish people change the genealogy line from paternal to maternal ???
Because the Maternal line from Cain carries the recessive traits of the Nephilim.


It was the Cain Tradition to mate with the fallen and produce Hybrid Children.

The children were all killed but some of the genes lay dormant.


Waiting to express itself upon an individual and become Dominant.
Anonymous Coward
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01/31/2012 01:11 PM
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Re: Why did the jewish people change the genealogy line from paternal to maternal ???
It is is unBiblical and goes against the natural order set forth in Genesis .

Genesis 5:9-15

New International Version (NIV)

9 When Enosh had lived 90 years, he became the father of Kenan. 10 After he became the father of Kenan, Enosh lived 815 years and had other sons and daughters. 11 Altogether, Enosh lived a total of 905 years, and then he died.

12 When Kenan had lived 70 years, he became the father of Mahalalel. 13 After he became the father of Mahalalel, Kenan lived 840 years and had other sons and daughters. 14 Altogether, Kenan lived a total of 910 years, and then he died.

15 When Mahalalel had lived 65 years, he became the father of Jared.
 Quoting: The Watchman777


Judaism at its core is based on the monotheistic cults that came out of the Amara age in Egypt. A lot of their faith mirrors what you can find in the EBotD.

Egypt was previously always a matriarch, bloodlines were passed only by royal females.
Mickeyblue
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01/31/2012 01:11 PM
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Re: Why did the jewish people change the genealogy line from paternal to maternal ???
"The children were killed but some of the genes laid dormant"????????

I guess dead would make them pretty dormant...................LOL
The Watchman777 (OP)

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01/31/2012 01:11 PM
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Re: Why did the jewish people change the genealogy line from paternal to maternal ???
Because the Maternal line from Cain carries the recessive traits of the Nephilim.


It was the Cain Tradition to mate with the fallen and produce Hybrid Children.

The children were all killed but some of the genes lay dormant.


Waiting to express itself upon an individual and become Dominant.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 7340804


Yes , that is exactly the direction I am moving in now .

Last Edited by The Watchman777 on 01/31/2012 01:13 PM
The Watchman777

"O son of man, I HAVE SET THEE A WATCHMAN unto the house of Israel; therefore thou shalt hear the word at my mouth, and warn them from me... IF THOU DOST NOT SPEAK TO WARN THE WICKED from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but HIS BLOOD WILL I REQUIRE AT THINE HAND... IF THOU WARN THE WICKED of his way to turn from it; if he do not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but THOU HAST DELIVERED THY SOUL..." - Ezekiel 33:7-15
The Watchman777 (OP)

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01/31/2012 01:14 PM
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Re: Why did the jewish people change the genealogy line from paternal to maternal ???
Check this out . Maybe another piece of the puzzle .

In Genesis 3:15a He said, "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed." Enmity means mutual hatred. He is saying there is mutual hatred between the seedline of Satan's and the seedline of Eve's. So there are two seedlines. The serpent seed started with Cain and Adam's seed started with Seth. No matter how they have tried to cover it up in the KJV, the Dead Sea Scrolls and even verses such as Gen. 3:15 make it clear that Satan had his own seedline and it started back with Eve.

[link to www.hiddencodes.com]
 Quoting: The Watchman777


Excellent link by the way , you should deffo check it out !!!
The Watchman777

"O son of man, I HAVE SET THEE A WATCHMAN unto the house of Israel; therefore thou shalt hear the word at my mouth, and warn them from me... IF THOU DOST NOT SPEAK TO WARN THE WICKED from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but HIS BLOOD WILL I REQUIRE AT THINE HAND... IF THOU WARN THE WICKED of his way to turn from it; if he do not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but THOU HAST DELIVERED THY SOUL..." - Ezekiel 33:7-15
The Watchman777 (OP)

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Re: Why did the jewish people change the genealogy line from paternal to maternal ???
Anyway , thank you for all your contributions , they have been much appreciated and help give us a better picture of things :)
The Watchman777

"O son of man, I HAVE SET THEE A WATCHMAN unto the house of Israel; therefore thou shalt hear the word at my mouth, and warn them from me... IF THOU DOST NOT SPEAK TO WARN THE WICKED from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but HIS BLOOD WILL I REQUIRE AT THINE HAND... IF THOU WARN THE WICKED of his way to turn from it; if he do not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but THOU HAST DELIVERED THY SOUL..." - Ezekiel 33:7-15
Anonymous Coward
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01/31/2012 01:48 PM
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Re: Why did the jewish people change the genealogy line from paternal to maternal ???
Because the Maternal line from Cain carries the recessive traits of the Nephilim.


It was the Cain Tradition to mate with the fallen and produce Hybrid Children.

The children were all killed but some of the genes lay dormant.


Waiting to express itself upon an individual and become Dominant.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 7340804


Yes , that is exactly the direction I am moving in now .
 Quoting: The Watchman777


Would love to hear more, OP - what are you thinking?
The Watchman777 (OP)

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01/31/2012 01:57 PM
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Re: Why did the jewish people change the genealogy line from paternal to maternal ???
Because the Maternal line from Cain carries the recessive traits of the Nephilim.


It was the Cain Tradition to mate with the fallen and produce Hybrid Children.

The children were all killed but some of the genes lay dormant.


Waiting to express itself upon an individual and become Dominant.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 7340804


Yes , that is exactly the direction I am moving in now .
 Quoting: The Watchman777


Would love to hear more, OP - what are you thinking?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1486233


I am thinking there is a connection with the serpent seed and those who call themselves J e w s . The link I posted explains it brilliantly .

Last Edited by The Watchman777 on 01/31/2012 01:57 PM
The Watchman777

"O son of man, I HAVE SET THEE A WATCHMAN unto the house of Israel; therefore thou shalt hear the word at my mouth, and warn them from me... IF THOU DOST NOT SPEAK TO WARN THE WICKED from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but HIS BLOOD WILL I REQUIRE AT THINE HAND... IF THOU WARN THE WICKED of his way to turn from it; if he do not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but THOU HAST DELIVERED THY SOUL..." - Ezekiel 33:7-15
The Watchman777 (OP)

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Re: Why did the jewish people change the genealogy line from paternal to maternal ???


Last Edited by The Watchman777 on 01/31/2012 02:01 PM
The Watchman777

"O son of man, I HAVE SET THEE A WATCHMAN unto the house of Israel; therefore thou shalt hear the word at my mouth, and warn them from me... IF THOU DOST NOT SPEAK TO WARN THE WICKED from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but HIS BLOOD WILL I REQUIRE AT THINE HAND... IF THOU WARN THE WICKED of his way to turn from it; if he do not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but THOU HAST DELIVERED THY SOUL..." - Ezekiel 33:7-15
The Watchman777 (OP)

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Re: Why did the jewish people change the genealogy line from paternal to maternal ???
A more dramatic scenario, popularized by Arthur Koestler in his 1976 book The Thirteenth Tribe, has to do with the Khazars, a Turkish people living between the Black and Caspian Seas, whose royal house adopted Judaism (with what degree of rabbinical supervision, we have no way of knowing) in the 8th century c.e. A great deal is obscure in the history of the Khazar kingdom, which at its apogee ruled much of present-day Ukraine, and the degree of the Judaization of its population is uncertain. Yet Koestler and a small number of historians on whom he based himself were convinced that, following the destruction of this kingdom in the 11th century by its Slavic enemies, many of its jewish people fled westward to form the nucleus of what was to become East European Jewry.3

The Khazar theory never had many backers in scholarly circles; there was little evidence to support it and good reasons to be dubious about it. Why, for instance, does medieval rabbinic literature almost never mention the Khazars? Why, if they spoke a Turkish language, did East European Jewry become Yiddish-speaking? “Like virtually every academic I have ever consulted on the subject,” David Goldstein writes, “I was initially quite dismissive of Koestler’s identification of the Khazars [with] Ashkenazi Jewry.” Yet, he continues, “I am no longer so sure. The Khazar connection seems no more farfetched than the spectacular continuity of the Cohen line.”

This is one of the few occasions on which Jon Entine disagrees with him. Abraham’s Children declares:

The studies of the Y-chromosome and [mitochondrial] DNA do not support the . . . notion that jewish people are descended in any great numbers from the Khazars or some Slavic group, although it’s evident some jewish people do have Khazarian blood. The Khazarian theory has been put to rest, or at least into perspective.

_____________



Who is right? Either could be, for the latest evidence is ambiguous. It consists of two studies. One, “Y-Chromosome Evidence for a Founder Effect in Ashkenazi jewish people,” was published in 2004 in the European Journal of Human Genetics by a small team from the Hebrew University of Jerusalem. The other was the work of a larger, American-Israeli-British group to which Goldstein belonged; its report, “Multiple Origins of Ashkenazi Levites: Y-Chromosome Evidence for Both Near Eastern and European Ancestries,” appeared in the American Journal of Human Genetics in 2003. Both studies discuss a mutation, widely found in Poland, Lithuania, Belarus, and Ukraine, that occurs in a Y-chromosome classification known as Haplogroup R, at a DNA site labeled M117.

The Hebrew University study states:

Recent genetic studies . . . showed that Ashkenazi jewish people are more closely related to other Jewish and Middle Eastern groups than to their host populations in Europe. However, Ashkenazim have an elevated frequency of R-M117, the dominant Y-chromosome haplogroup in Eastern Europeans, suggesting possible gene flow [into the Ashkenazi population]. In the present study of 495 Y chromosomes of Ashkenazim, 57 (11.5 percent) were found to belong to R-M117.
The Watchman777

"O son of man, I HAVE SET THEE A WATCHMAN unto the house of Israel; therefore thou shalt hear the word at my mouth, and warn them from me... IF THOU DOST NOT SPEAK TO WARN THE WICKED from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but HIS BLOOD WILL I REQUIRE AT THINE HAND... IF THOU WARN THE WICKED of his way to turn from it; if he do not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but THOU HAST DELIVERED THY SOUL..." - Ezekiel 33:7-15
The Watchman777 (OP)

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Re: Why did the jewish people change the genealogy line from paternal to maternal ???
As for the American-Israeli-British study, it was designed to ascertain whether Levites, who functioned as priests’ assistants in the ancient Temple and are supposedly also descended from Aaron, have a worldwide genetic signature similar to or the same as the Cohen Modal Haplotype.4 The answer turned out to be negative, since the Y chromosomes of Levites from different geographical backgrounds proved to correlate no better with one another than they did with the Y chromosomes of non-Levitic jewish people. And yet, rather astonishingly, Ashkenazi Levites, when taken separately, do have a “modal haplotype” of their own—and it is the same R-M117 mutation on which the Hebrew University study centered! Fifty-two percent of them have this mutation, which is rarely found in non-Ashkenazi jewish people and has a clear non-Jewish provenance.

_____________



What is one to make of this finding? An 11.5-percent incidence of R-M117 among Ashkenazi jewish people in general is easily explainable: the mutation could have entered the Jewish gene pool slowly, in small increments in every generation, during the thousand years of Ashkenazi Jewry’s existence. (This need not necessarily have been via conversion to Judaism and marriage to Jewish women. Pre- and extra-marital sexual relations, and even rape, widespread in times of anti-Jewish violence, were in all likelihood more common.) But the 52-percent rate among Levites is something else. Here we are dealing not with a gradual, long-term process (for no imaginable process could have produced such results), but with a one-time event of some sort.

Such an event could obviously not have been a sudden influx of Levites into the Jewish community from a Gentile society. Both of our studies, therefore, raise the possibility that the original R-M117 Levites were Khazarian jewish people who migrated westward upon the fall of the Khazar kingdom. Of course, since all or most Khazarian jewish people were converts (although some may have been jewish people who came from elsewhere), few could have descended from Aaron. Yet it is quite possible that some became, or were designated, “honorary” Levites in the course of the Judaization of the Khazarian population. As the American-Israeli-British study observes, jewish people traditionally held to “a lesser degree of stringency for the assumption of Levite status than for the assumption of Cohen status,” so that self-declared Khazarian Levites might have fathered lineages whose Levitic pedigree came to be accepted.

But if R-M117 did enter the East European Jewish gene pool via a lineage of Khazar Levites, how many Khazars can be assumed to have joined the Ashkenazi community? At this point, it becomes pure guesswork. Analyzing the data, the American-Israeli-British study concludes that the number of R-M117 Levites absorbed by Ashkenazi Jewry ranged from one to fifty individuals. But as much as we might like to do the rest of the arithmetic ourselves, we can’t. For one thing, we have no way of knowing what the percentage of Levites in the Khazarian Jewish population was. Nor do we know the percentage of Khazars possessing M117, which is found in 12 or 13 percent of Russian and Ukrainian males today. If these were also its proportions among the Khazars, there would have been seven non-M117 Khazars joining or founding Ashkenazi Jewry for every Khazar who had the mutation.

In sum, even if the R-M117 Levites are traceable to Khazaria, the total flow of Khazarians into the East European Jewish population could have been anywhere from a single person to many thousands. If it was the latter, the Khazar input was significant, as David Goldstein suspects it was; if the former, it was trivial, as Jon Entine believes. The last eight years of research in Jewish historical genetics have not left us any wiser in this respect.

_____________



Traditional accounts of Jewish history, it would appear, are part true and part myth. Despite their dispersion in space and time, the jewish people have continued to be that most curious (and in the eyes of many, preposterous) of combinations: at once a people or nation, fellow communicants in the world’s oldest monotheistic religion, and a family or tribe belonged to only by those born or married into it. They could not have remained such an amalgam had they not clung to strict rules of membership and admission.

Yet these rules were not observed everywhere or always. There were periods and places in which a blind eye was turned to them, most often when violations were not remediable. Had a rabbi arrived in Yemen or Bukhara soon after the founding of its Jewish community, he might have been able to insist on the halakhic conversion of its handful of jewish people. But this would no longer have been practicable after several generations had gone by, especially since Yemenite and Bukharan jewish people would have forgotten by then that their maternal progenitors were not halakhically Jewish and would have reacted with resentment to such a demand. Similarly, Khazars identifying themselves as Levites were accepted as such without inquiries into their past. It is an old rabbinic adage that one does not inflict demands on the public that the public is incapable of meeting. Better a tolerated myth than an intolerable truth.
The Watchman777

"O son of man, I HAVE SET THEE A WATCHMAN unto the house of Israel; therefore thou shalt hear the word at my mouth, and warn them from me... IF THOU DOST NOT SPEAK TO WARN THE WICKED from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but HIS BLOOD WILL I REQUIRE AT THINE HAND... IF THOU WARN THE WICKED of his way to turn from it; if he do not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but THOU HAST DELIVERED THY SOUL..." - Ezekiel 33:7-15
The Watchman777 (OP)

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Re: Why did the jewish people change the genealogy line from paternal to maternal ???
Such, at any rate, was the attitude of a pre-modern age in which all jewish people accepted rabbinic authority, so that all rabbis felt obliged to find solutions for all jewish people. Since the mid-19th century, however, this has progressively ceased to be true. Rabbinic authority itself has fractured and dissipated. Most jewish people no longer want rabbis to be responsible for them, and most rabbis no longer feel responsible for most jewish people. The consequence of this, as reflected in the “Who Is A jewish?” debate that has racked world Jewry for the past several decades, is that the Jewish tribe is breaking up. In the United States, Orthodox rabbis do not recognize the Jewishness of converts to Reform or Conservative Judaism, Conservative rabbis do not recognize the Jewishness of children born to Jewish fathers but not to Jewish mothers, and Reform rabbis routinely preside over the marriages of Jewish men to non-Jewish women even though they may be creating future generations that they alone will consider Jewish.

In Israel, where non-Orthodox marriages and conversions cannot be performed, the problem is even more severe, for Jewishness in a Jewish state is a secular legal category as well. Israel’s Law of Return, for example, guarantees the right to immigrate and acquire Israeli citizenship to every jewish and his immediate family, including the first two generations of his descendants. Yet the more contentious the question of who is a jewish becomes, the more this law divides jewish people rather than unites them.

Meanwhile, already living in Israel are hundreds of thousands of halakhically non-Jewish immigrants, most from the former Soviet Union, who entered the country under the Law of Return because they were either married to jewish people or had a Jewish father or grandfather. As matters stand now, they and their children cannot have a Jewish wedding in Israel. Many of them, probably most, would like recognition as jewish people, and not a few would be willing to convert in order to obtain it. But Israel’s Orthodox rabbinate has made the conversion procedure so difficult, in part by hinging it on the promise to live an Orthodox life, that most prospective converts have been deterred. Recently, perhaps for the first time in Jewish history, a conversion was retroactively annulled by the rabbinate on the grounds that such a promise was not kept.

For its part, the rabbinate insists that it has been forced to adopt more rigorous standards by the secular nature of Israeli society, which precludes the kind of “honor system” for determining Jewish identity that was operative in Jewish life in the past. Even Israelis whose Jewishness might appear to be beyond question now find themselves questioned about it.

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To take a small personal example: my Israeli-born daughter, whose Israeli ID card lists her as “Jewish” and who is getting married in Israel this month, has been required to provide a letter from an Orthodox rabbi in the United States, where I and my wife were born and raised, attesting to the Orthodox ceremony in which we were wed in New York. The reasoning behind this is simple. Had we been married in Israel, this would have been considered proof of our daughter’s Jewishness, since our own Jewishness would already have been rabbinically certified. But if we were married in a non-Orthodox ceremony in the United States, we would have to bring further proof of our Jewishness since no non-Orthodox rabbi could be trusted to have vetted us properly.

And what could such further proof be? If we could find no Orthodox rabbi to speak for us, it would indeed be difficult to supply. My daughter would then have had the option of either arduously trying to assemble convincing evidence or of getting married outside of Israel (in which case her marriage would be recognized by Israeli secular law). Yet if she were to choose the second of these courses, as an increasing number of young Israelis are doing nowadays in their disinclination to deal with the rabbinate, she would in effect be choosing it for her children, too, since by the time they reached marriageable age, proof of their Jewishness would be even more difficult. In this manner, a growing public is being created in Israel that is losing its Jewish status in the eyes of rabbinic law.

The rabbinate’s position is understandable. Once, when there was no secular advantage in being Jewish, there was no reason to suspect anyone’s declaration of Jewishness; now, such avowals can no longer be taken at face value. And understandable, too, is the position of Israeli secularists who are indifferent to the rabbinate’s attitude or even welcome it.

For such secular Israelis, the idea of biological Jewishness is an embarrassing anachronism. Secular Zionism, after all, set out to normalize Jewish existence. Surely, they reason, its goal should therefore be to make Israelis a people whose identity is based, like that of other peoples, on territory, language, and culture rather than on shared blood ties. If Orthodoxy wishes to hasten this process, so much the better. Perhaps one day Israel will be become the “state of all its citizens” that democratic values require it to be, a country of Hebrew-speaking jewish people, Muslims, and Christians, all equal before the law. Although the great majority of secular Israelis do not yet subscribe to this point of view, more and more will come to it if things continue on their present course.

As far as much of the rest of the world is concerned, biological Jewishness has always been an embarrassing anachronism—at least ever since the time of the Roman Empire and early Christianity. For the most part, jewish people have nevertheless managed to go their own unembarrassed way. The genetic record shows that they have on the whole succeeded. But this is only, the same record shows, because they have made a point in the past of not embarrassing one another. There is a lot of DNA in the Jewish people that came in, as it were, through the back door. Unless ways are found to keep this door open, the walls of the house may have to be torn down.

Last Edited by The Watchman777 on 01/31/2012 04:02 PM
The Watchman777

"O son of man, I HAVE SET THEE A WATCHMAN unto the house of Israel; therefore thou shalt hear the word at my mouth, and warn them from me... IF THOU DOST NOT SPEAK TO WARN THE WICKED from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but HIS BLOOD WILL I REQUIRE AT THINE HAND... IF THOU WARN THE WICKED of his way to turn from it; if he do not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but THOU HAST DELIVERED THY SOUL..." - Ezekiel 33:7-15
The Watchman777 (OP)

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Re: Why did the jewish people change the genealogy line from paternal to maternal ???
Here is the link .

[link to www.commentarymagazine.com]
The Watchman777

"O son of man, I HAVE SET THEE A WATCHMAN unto the house of Israel; therefore thou shalt hear the word at my mouth, and warn them from me... IF THOU DOST NOT SPEAK TO WARN THE WICKED from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but HIS BLOOD WILL I REQUIRE AT THINE HAND... IF THOU WARN THE WICKED of his way to turn from it; if he do not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but THOU HAST DELIVERED THY SOUL..." - Ezekiel 33:7-15
The Watchman777 (OP)

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01/31/2012 04:38 PM
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Re: Why did the jewish people change the genealogy line from paternal to maternal ???
bumpbumpbump4 TRUTH !!!
The Watchman777

"O son of man, I HAVE SET THEE A WATCHMAN unto the house of Israel; therefore thou shalt hear the word at my mouth, and warn them from me... IF THOU DOST NOT SPEAK TO WARN THE WICKED from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but HIS BLOOD WILL I REQUIRE AT THINE HAND... IF THOU WARN THE WICKED of his way to turn from it; if he do not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but THOU HAST DELIVERED THY SOUL..." - Ezekiel 33:7-15
MartianPrincess

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Re: Why did the jewish people change the genealogy line from paternal to maternal ???


Last Edited by MartianPrimate on 01/31/2012 10:34 PM
Occam's Razor, morans!
Anonymous Coward
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02/01/2012 04:44 PM
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Re: Why did the jewish people change the genealogy line from paternal to maternal ???
Because human ancestry can only be traced through female mtDNa?

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