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The two witnesses are gentiles

 
ACC
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02/09/2012 12:31 AM
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11:3 And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and three score days, clothed in sackcloth.

11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceeds out of their mouth, and devours their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

11:6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.




Where in history is the 1260 days?
ACC
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02/09/2012 12:32 AM
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Re: The two witnesses are gentiles
a. Past

b. Future
Jesse (OP)
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02/09/2012 12:55 AM
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Re: The two witnesses are gentiles
a. Past

b. Future

 Quoting: ACC 10425175


B)The time of tribulation that is comming soon.
Jesse (OP)
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02/09/2012 01:41 AM
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Re: The two witnesses are gentiles
One more thought do you think you would know if they were on GLP? They would be reading your posts. I don't think that you would.They would probally not identify themselves some of the people in here would persecute them i am sure.Anyway they are just men of God so they would expect it i am sure.
ACC
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02/09/2012 02:38 AM
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Re: The two witnesses are gentiles
a. Past

b. Future

 Quoting: ACC 10425175


B)The time of tribulation that is comming soon.
 Quoting: Jesse 9006464


That is you and others first mistake. The entire future tribulation claim is based on the final week of the 70 weeks of Daniel 9.

The claim is there is a 2000 year "gap" between weeks 69 & 70.

There simply is no such gap.

This 1260 day period is mentioned several times in scripture, all referring to the period Rome ruled during the dark ages.

Dn7:25 = time, times and a half (1260)
Dn12:7 = time, times and a half (1260)
Rv11:2 = 42 months (1260)
Rv11:3 = 1260 days
Rv12:6 = 1260 days
Rv12:14 = time, times and a half (1260)
Rv13:5 = 42 months (1260)

Most find Daniel 9 -- "70 weeks" or 490 days to be actually 490 years. (day-year principle)
[link to en.wikipedia.org]

Prophetic time is always day = year.

The 1260 years has been identified when the Rome Empire fell (476, Daniel 7) and 'holy' Rome (little horn) took over from 538 to 1798 when Napoleon ended the Papal States.
[link to en.wikipedia.org]
[link to farm4.staticflickr.com]

Thus the Rev 11 two witnesses happened at that time in 1798 France. (spiritual Sodom and Egypt i.e. atheist)

At that time the Bible was banned for 3.5 years.

After this the Bible was mass produced and went to all of Christendom.

Revelation is a book of prophecy which uses symbolism.

Once again, the symbolism from Rev 11 comes from Zech 4 and 5, which is about the word of God (candlesticks which are a witness)










Rv11:1-4 "And there was given me a reed like to a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given to the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and three score days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth."

The symbolism comes from Zechariah.

Zech.4:3 "And two olive trees by it, one on the right side of the bowl, and the other on the left side thereof. So I answered and spoke to the angel that talked with me, saying, What are these, my lord? Then the angel that talked with me answered and said to me, Know you not what these be? And I said, No, my lord. Then he answered and spoke to me, saying, This is the word of the LORD (...) Then answered I, and said to him, What are these two olive trees on the right side of the candlestick and on the left side thereof? And I answered again, and said to him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves? And he answered me and said, Know you not what these be? And I said, No, my lord. Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the LORD of the whole earth. Then I turned, and lifted up my eyes, and looked, and behold a flying roll."


The most popular opinion found among the Doctors of Theology is that the two witnesses are two prophets that shall come during the Great Tribulation Period, while some say that this prophecy of the two witnesses has a two-fold meaning. However, the Scriptures and recorded history show that the prophecy about the two witnesses has indeed come to pass.

Jesus our Lord said: "And this Gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a WITNESS UNTO ALL NATIONS and then shall the end come." Matthew 24:14. The Gospel taught from the Scriptures was to be a witness to all nations about the loving and saving power of Jesus Christ. It gives its hearers correction in right doing. It gives its believers hope for the future, and the promise of forgiveness for past sins through the sacrifice of Christ's death. "And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the Devil, who are taken captive by him at his will." 2.Timothy 2:26.

However, when the Roman Catholic Church became a religious dictatorship, the Scriptures were hidden from the vast population, and catechism was substituted instead of Bible study. The Gospel of the Bible became mingled with the pagan philosophies of Sun worship. The worship of the pagan Mother goddess became the idol of the Roman Catholic Church through the worship of the Virgin Mary.' When the Gospel became perverted through Romanism, God always had a remnant people who were teaching the True Faith during the 1260 years the Papacy cast the Truth to the ground. These faithful followers of Jesus were hunted down by papal authorities as heretics and criminals. They were tortured on the rack, burned at the stake; and it mattered not what age or sex, they were butchered in the name of Heaven.

When those faithful servants who proclaimed the sacred truths from the Old and New Testaments were tortured, murdered, thrown in dungeons and had to flee for their lives from the papal Inquisitors, the True Faith was forced to go underground. The Gospel set forth in the Old and New Testament that had to be preached into all the world for a witness to all nations before Christ would come again, was forced into a state of obscurity. This is what is meant by Revelation 11:3, "And they shall prophesy a THOUSAND TWO HUNDRED AND THREESCORE DAYS CLOTHED IN SACKCLOTH."

Sackcloth was worn by the Israelites in times of trouble and grief. (2.Samuel 3:31, 1.Chronicles 21:15, 16; Isaiah 37:1). The sackcloth here mentioned in Revelation 11:3 was to mourn the supression of the Old and New Testament by the papal authorities during the 1260 years. The two witnesses, the two olive trees, or the two candlesticks represented the light the Scripture gives its reader.

The Olive Tree was the Israelites' source of oil to anoint their kings and priests. Oil has often, in Biblical language, been a symbol of the Holy Spirit. See Zechariah 4:1-14. The Candlestick represents the illumination a searcher of Truth receives in the heart when he makes the Word of God his standard to measure Truth to live by. "Thy word is a LAMP unto my feet, and a light unto my path." Psalms 119:105.

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness." 2.Timothy 3:16

"And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouths, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy. And have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will." Revelation 11:5,6.

This prophecy is a parallel with that of Jesus in Revelation 22:18,19. "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of this prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the Holy City, and from the things which are written in this book."

This will be the fate of ALL those who tamper with the sacred Scripture. These warnings were given by God to warn men against changing or adding to anything written in the Holy Scriptures. The Scriptures reveal God's plan for man from the beginning of creation until Christ's Second Coming, and also how he will provide for man after this Age. The Scriptures were given for man as a guide throughout his life to lead him through the gates of the New Jerusalem where he will dwell with God himself. (Revelation 21:1-4).
[link to www.benabraham.com]
Jesse (OP)
User ID: 9006464
United States
02/09/2012 02:51 AM
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Re: The two witnesses are gentiles
a. Past

b. Future

 Quoting: ACC 10425175


B)The time of tribulation that is comming soon.
 Quoting: Jesse 9006464


That is you and others first mistake. The entire future tribulation claim is based on the final week of the 70 weeks of Daniel 9.

The claim is there is a 2000 year "gap" between weeks 69 & 70.

There simply is no such gap.

This 1260 day period is mentioned several times in scripture, all referring to the period Rome ruled during the dark ages.

Dn7:25 = time, times and a half (1260)
Dn12:7 = time, times and a half (1260)
Rv11:2 = 42 months (1260)
Rv11:3 = 1260 days
Rv12:6 = 1260 days
Rv12:14 = time, times and a half (1260)
Rv13:5 = 42 months (1260)

Most find Daniel 9 -- "70 weeks" or 490 days to be actually 490 years. (day-year principle)
[link to en.wikipedia.org]

Prophetic time is always day = year.

The 1260 years has been identified when the Rome Empire fell (476, Daniel 7) and 'holy' Rome (little horn) took over from 538 to 1798 when Napoleon ended the Papal States.
[link to en.wikipedia.org]
[link to farm4.staticflickr.com]

Thus the Rev 11 two witnesses happened at that time in 1798 France. (spiritual Sodom and Egypt i.e. atheist)

At that time the Bible was banned for 3.5 years.

After this the Bible was mass produced and went to all of Christendom.

Revelation is a book of prophecy which uses symbolism.

Once again, the symbolism from Rev 11 comes from Zech 4 and 5, which is about the word of God (candlesticks which are a witness)










Rv11:1-4 "And there was given me a reed like to a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given to the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and three score days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth."

The symbolism comes from Zechariah.

Zech.4:3 "And two olive trees by it, one on the right side of the bowl, and the other on the left side thereof. So I answered and spoke to the angel that talked with me, saying, What are these, my lord? Then the angel that talked with me answered and said to me, Know you not what these be? And I said, No, my lord. Then he answered and spoke to me, saying, This is the word of the LORD (...) Then answered I, and said to him, What are these two olive trees on the right side of the candlestick and on the left side thereof? And I answered again, and said to him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves? And he answered me and said, Know you not what these be? And I said, No, my lord. Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the LORD of the whole earth. Then I turned, and lifted up my eyes, and looked, and behold a flying roll."


The most popular opinion found among the Doctors of Theology is that the two witnesses are two prophets that shall come during the Great Tribulation Period, while some say that this prophecy of the two witnesses has a two-fold meaning. However, the Scriptures and recorded history show that the prophecy about the two witnesses has indeed come to pass.

Jesus our Lord said: "And this Gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a WITNESS UNTO ALL NATIONS and then shall the end come." Matthew 24:14. The Gospel taught from the Scriptures was to be a witness to all nations about the loving and saving power of Jesus Christ. It gives its hearers correction in right doing. It gives its believers hope for the future, and the promise of forgiveness for past sins through the sacrifice of Christ's death. "And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the Devil, who are taken captive by him at his will." 2.Timothy 2:26.

However, when the Roman Catholic Church became a religious dictatorship, the Scriptures were hidden from the vast population, and catechism was substituted instead of Bible study. The Gospel of the Bible became mingled with the pagan philosophies of Sun worship. The worship of the pagan Mother goddess became the idol of the Roman Catholic Church through the worship of the Virgin Mary.' When the Gospel became perverted through Romanism, God always had a remnant people who were teaching the True Faith during the 1260 years the Papacy cast the Truth to the ground. These faithful followers of Jesus were hunted down by papal authorities as heretics and criminals. They were tortured on the rack, burned at the stake; and it mattered not what age or sex, they were butchered in the name of Heaven.

When those faithful servants who proclaimed the sacred truths from the Old and New Testaments were tortured, murdered, thrown in dungeons and had to flee for their lives from the papal Inquisitors, the True Faith was forced to go underground. The Gospel set forth in the Old and New Testament that had to be preached into all the world for a witness to all nations before Christ would come again, was forced into a state of obscurity. This is what is meant by Revelation 11:3, "And they shall prophesy a THOUSAND TWO HUNDRED AND THREESCORE DAYS CLOTHED IN SACKCLOTH."

Sackcloth was worn by the Israelites in times of trouble and grief. (2.Samuel 3:31, 1.Chronicles 21:15, 16; Isaiah 37:1). The sackcloth here mentioned in Revelation 11:3 was to mourn the supression of the Old and New Testament by the papal authorities during the 1260 years. The two witnesses, the two olive trees, or the two candlesticks represented the light the Scripture gives its reader.

The Olive Tree was the Israelites' source of oil to anoint their kings and priests. Oil has often, in Biblical language, been a symbol of the Holy Spirit. See Zechariah 4:1-14. The Candlestick represents the illumination a searcher of Truth receives in the heart when he makes the Word of God his standard to measure Truth to live by. "Thy word is a LAMP unto my feet, and a light unto my path." Psalms 119:105.

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness." 2.Timothy 3:16

"And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouths, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy. And have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will." Revelation 11:5,6.

This prophecy is a parallel with that of Jesus in Revelation 22:18,19. "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of this prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the Holy City, and from the things which are written in this book."

This will be the fate of ALL those who tamper with the sacred Scripture. These warnings were given by God to warn men against changing or adding to anything written in the Holy Scriptures. The Scriptures reveal God's plan for man from the beginning of creation until Christ's Second Coming, and also how he will provide for man after this Age. The Scriptures were given for man as a guide throughout his life to lead him through the gates of the New Jerusalem where he will dwell with God himself. (Revelation 21:1-4).
[link to www.benabraham.com]
 Quoting: ACC 10425175


I think i backed up what i said with scripture that just does not make any since with the second comming of Jesus thanks for your opinion, but I just don't see that.
ACC
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02/09/2012 04:16 AM
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Re: The two witnesses are gentiles
I think i backed up what i said with scripture that just does not make any since with the second comming of Jesus thanks for your opinion, but I just don't see that.
 Quoting: Jesse 9006464


It is you with the opinion. The word of God is as written in the post. You only reject what is written. This is why there are numerous denominations in error, they reject what is written listening to some man over what is written in God's word.

The 1260 day/years are identified as told in the post.

Rev 11 was fulfilled 200 years ago.

Daniel's 70 weeks were fulfilled 2000 years ago.

Your Futurist theology comes from the Jesuits.

What is Futurism?

The Futurist view of Revelation interprets the prophecies of Antichrist as a future literal man who deceives the world. The Futurist view interprets Revelation literally, not symbolically. There is a "gap" of over 2000 years between the 69th week and 70th week of Daniel 9. The Prince is the Man of Sin, Antichrist. The Futurist view was introduced by the Jesuits to counter the Reformation view of Papacy.

What is Historicism?

Historicism is the historical interpretation of many of the prophecies in the book of Revelation, particularly regarding Antichrist. The Anti-Christ, Man of Sin, or Mystery of Iniquity is the system of Papacy. The Reformers had the historical interpretation of the Antichrist. Historicism has no "gap" between the 69th and 70th week of Daniel 9. The Prince being cut off in the midst of the week is Christ, the Messiah, who died in the midst of the 70th week in favor of natural Israel at the first advent. Historicism treats Revelation as a Book of signs and symbols.
[link to www.revelation-today.com]
[link to www.lmn.org]
[link to www.aloha.net]
[link to en.wikipedia.org]
Jesse (OP)
User ID: 9006464
United States
02/09/2012 05:08 AM
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Re: The two witnesses are gentiles
I think i backed up what i said with scripture that just does not make any since with the second comming of Jesus thanks for your opinion, but I just don't see that.
 Quoting: Jesse 9006464


It is you with the opinion. The word of God is as written in the post. You only reject what is written. This is why there are numerous denominations in error, they reject what is written listening to some man over what is written in God's word.

The 1260 day/years are identified as told in the post.

Rev 11 was fulfilled 200 years ago.

Daniel's 70 weeks were fulfilled 2000 years ago.

Your Futurist theology comes from the Jesuits.

What is Futurism?

The Futurist view of Revelation interprets the prophecies of Antichrist as a future literal man who deceives the world. The Futurist view interprets Revelation literally, not symbolically. There is a "gap" of over 2000 years between the 69th week and 70th week of Daniel 9. The Prince is the Man of Sin, Antichrist. The Futurist view was introduced by the Jesuits to counter the Reformation view of Papacy.

What is Historicism?

Historicism is the historical interpretation of many of the prophecies in the book of Revelation, particularly regarding Antichrist. The Anti-Christ, Man of Sin, or Mystery of Iniquity is the system of Papacy. The Reformers had the historical interpretation of the Antichrist. Historicism has no "gap" between the 69th and 70th week of Daniel 9. The Prince being cut off in the midst of the week is Christ, the Messiah, who died in the midst of the 70th week in favor of natural Israel at the first advent. Historicism treats Revelation as a Book of signs and symbols.
[link to www.revelation-today.com]
[link to www.lmn.org]
[link to www.aloha.net]
[link to en.wikipedia.org]
 Quoting: ACC 10425175


Sorry not a jesuit nor have i read any of there teachings.I don't know who endocrinated with this teachings.I will pray for you.I do not remember Jesus comming back yet or you would not be hear.I am sorry that we can not agree with the interpetation of the prophecies,but you will not convince me that the anticrist has already come.There is futurism involved in my interpetation it commes from the Holy spirit.

2 Thessalonians 2 please read
Jesse (OP)
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02/09/2012 10:48 PM
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Re: The two witnesses are gentiles
where are you at acc did you read 2 thes.chap.2
Jesse (OP)
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02/10/2012 12:41 AM
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Re: The two witnesses are gentiles
2 thessalonians chapter 2:1-4

1)Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him,we ask you,brothers and sisters,

2)not to become easily unsettled or alarmed allegedly from us- whether by prophesy or by word of mouth or by letter-asserting that the day of the Lord has already come.

3)don't let anyone deceive you in anyway,for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed,the man doomed to destruction.

4)He will oppose and exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped,so that he sets himself up in God's temple,proclaiming himself to be God.
Jesse (OP)
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02/10/2012 12:55 AM
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Re: The two witnesses are gentiles
2 thessalonians chapter 2:1-4

1)Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him,we ask you,brothers and sisters,

2)not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teachings allegedly from us- whether by prophesy or by word of mouth or by letter-asserting that the day of the Lord has already come.

3)don't let anyone deceive you in anyway,for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed,the man doomed to destruction.

4)He will oppose and exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped,so that he sets himself up in God's temple,proclaiming himself to be God.
 Quoting: Jesse 9006464
Jesse (OP)
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02/10/2012 01:00 AM
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Re: The two witnesses are gentiles
a type o
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/10/2012 01:02 AM
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Re: The two witnesses are gentiles

2 thessalonians chapter 2:1-4
ACC
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02/10/2012 01:30 AM
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Re: The two witnesses are gentiles
The Bible doesn't say the "little horn" is a man, but rather that it would have "eyes like the eyes of a man" (Daniel 7:8). When Paul used the expression, "the man of sin," in 2 Thessalonians 2:3, he was simply referring to the "little horn" with its "eyes like the eyes of a man." Yet that same horn is called a "beast" in Revelation 13:1, and the Bible clearly tells us that a beast represents a great kingdom (Daniel 7:23).

:

The AntiChrist -- From the BIBLE


Most associate the "little horn" of Daniel 7 with the antiChrist or beast which is then found in Rev 13. Daniel 7's "little horn" shows when the AC came.

The fourth beast--Roman Empire--had ten horns (Dn 7). Three of the horns were plucked up when the little horn came up. This was the fall of the Roman Empire and rise of Papal Rome.

The "horns" we are told are "kings". Kings rule over nations. When papal Rome came up after the fall of pagan Rome (476 to 538) there were ten nations of Europe. Three were defeated and extinct to this day. They were:


1. Anglo-Saxons-English
2. Franks-French
3. Allemans-Germany
4. Burgundians-Swiss
5. Visigoths-Spain
6. Suevi-Portugal
7. Lombards-Italy
8. Vandals-extinct
9. Heruli-extinct
10. Ostrogoths-extinct


"Catholic emperors of the eastern empire found ways to help the pope by eliminating three of the Arian tribes. The Catholic emperor Zeno (474 to 491) arranged a treaty with the Ostrogoths in 487 which resulted in the eradication of the kingdom of the Arian Heurls in 493. And the Catholic emperor Justinian (527 to 565) exterminated the Arian Vandals in 534 and significantly broke the power of the Arian Ostrogoths in 538. Thus were Daniels three horns the Heuels, the Vandals, and the Ostrogoths plucked up by the roots." (C. Mervyn Maxwell, God Cares, vol. 1, Daniel, p. 129, Pacific Press Publishing Association, 1981.)
[link to www.historicism.com]

Then we are told this new religious "horn" would become the "beast" empire and rule for "time times and half" or 42 month or 1260 days/years.
[link to farm4.staticflickr.com]

Only one empire has ever done this.
Jesse (OP)
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02/10/2012 01:39 AM
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Re: The two witnesses are gentiles
The Bible doesn't say the "little horn" is a man, but rather that it would have "eyes like the eyes of a man" (Daniel 7:8). When Paul used the expression, "the man of sin," in 2 Thessalonians 2:3, he was simply referring to the "little horn" with its "eyes like the eyes of a man." Yet that same horn is called a "beast" in Revelation 13:1, and the Bible clearly tells us that a beast represents a great kingdom (Daniel 7:23).

:

The AntiChrist -- From the BIBLE


Most associate the "little horn" of Daniel 7 with the antiChrist or beast which is then found in Rev 13. Daniel 7's "little horn" shows when the AC came.

The fourth beast--Roman Empire--had ten horns (Dn 7). Three of the horns were plucked up when the little horn came up. This was the fall of the Roman Empire and rise of Papal Rome.

The "horns" we are told are "kings". Kings rule over nations. When papal Rome came up after the fall of pagan Rome (476 to 538) there were ten nations of Europe. Three were defeated and extinct to this day. They were:


1. Anglo-Saxons-English
2. Franks-French
3. Allemans-Germany
4. Burgundians-Swiss
5. Visigoths-Spain
6. Suevi-Portugal
7. Lombards-Italy
8. Vandals-extinct
9. Heruli-extinct
10. Ostrogoths-extinct


"Catholic emperors of the eastern empire found ways to help the pope by eliminating three of the Arian tribes. The Catholic emperor Zeno (474 to 491) arranged a treaty with the Ostrogoths in 487 which resulted in the eradication of the kingdom of the Arian Heurls in 493. And the Catholic emperor Justinian (527 to 565) exterminated the Arian Vandals in 534 and significantly broke the power of the Arian Ostrogoths in 538. Thus were Daniels three horns the Heuels, the Vandals, and the Ostrogoths plucked up by the roots." (C. Mervyn Maxwell, God Cares, vol. 1, Daniel, p. 129, Pacific Press Publishing Association, 1981.)
[link to www.historicism.com]

Then we are told this new religious "horn" would become the "beast" empire and rule for "time times and half" or 42 month or 1260 days/years.
[link to farm4.staticflickr.com]

Only one empire has ever done this.
 Quoting: ACC 10487582


I don't disagree with the history only how it ties to prophesy.The lawless man has not proclaimed himself God in the temple yet can you show me that.DID YOU EVEN READ 2 THES. CHAPTER 2:1-4
Jesse (OP)
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02/10/2012 01:48 AM
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Re: The two witnesses are gentiles
ref.Rev.11:1

the court of the gentiles

After the dedication of the temple,people will come to Jerusalem not lust the jewish people,but people from every nation will come to the temple.For the first three and a half years of the tribulation period.It will be a crush of people in the court of the gentiles at this time.

ref.Rev.11:2

The two Witnesses

The two Witnesses are found in the court of the gentiles,this is the first indication they are gentiles (no self respecting jewish would be outside the temple when he could be inside prophesying )

ref.Rev.11:3

The 1,260 days in prophesy

Compair this with Daniel.The extra days apparently have to do with times of purification of the priests and the temple.

ref.Rev.11:4 Zech 4:1-4

The two olive trees and the two candlesticks

A. Olive,olive trees and olive oil etc.speak of the reconciliation to God.This is seen the first time in the bible when the dove(the symbol and type of the Holy Spirit) brings an olive branch back to Noah after the flood.The olive branches of Zechariah will reconcile Israel to the Lord.

B. Olive trees bear alot of fruit.The best trees bear so much fruit that the olive oil drips from the branches.The two Whitnesses will have very fruitful ministries before entering the temple.As on real olive trees,much of their fruit will be hidden from view until time of harvest.

C. The candlestick is the word of God.Psalm 119:105 says "Thy word is a lamp unto my feet,and a light unto my path " Why is there only one candlestick in Zechariah and two in Revelation? Simple there was only one covenant(the old covenant) in Zechariah's time and two covenants (the old and the new)in John's and our time.This is another indication that the two Witnesses are gentile and christian.

D. The oil is always a reference to the anointing Holy Spirit.The dripping from the branches speaks of the continual anointing of the Holy Spirit in the lives and the ministries of these two men,just as in the natural the olive oil is extracted from the olives through a series of crushings.These men wil have to go through personal "crushings" and will have sold out so completely,that they will have soldout to the service of God that they will lose their idenities by the time they start their ministry in the outer court of the temple.

ref.Rev.11:5

Protection for the two Witnesses

There will be those who try to physically harm the two Witnesses during the time of their ministry at the temple.They will speak as one person and fire will fall to destroy their enemies.

ref.Rev.11:6

supernatural anointing of the two Witnesses

This is where people get off track on who the two Witnesses are.Romans 3:21 says "but now the rightous of God without the law is manifested being witnessed by the law and the prophets" Moses (the law)and Elijah (the prophets) appeared at the transfiguration (Matt.17:1-13) they appeared in thier glorified bodies and had to com in the Shekinah glory cloud cloud to keep from being defiled for thier return to heaven. Moses phisically died as it is stated in Hebrews 9:27 "and it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this is judgement" Elijah did return agin Jesus said that he was john the Baptist.see Matt. 11:1-14 but esp. vs.14 and matthew 17:12-13.The two Witnesses will have the anointings of Moses and Elijah to do all these things. They will not be Moses and Elijah themselves.

ref.Rev.11:7

The death of the two Witnesses

Daniel makes a reference to this when he speaks of the "abomination that causes desolation" includes witchcraft,paganism and human sacrifice. the account of the first time this happened can be read about in the books of 1 and 2 Maccabees,usually found in the Apocrypha.This is the reclamation of the temple is what the jewish festival of Chanukah is about it is a valuable reading.

ref.Rev.11:8

The spiritual condition of Jerusalem

Jerusalem is refered to as Sodom and Egypt here to reflect the spiritual condition of Jerusalem during the tribulation period.Sodom is a symbol of the gross sins prevalent,Egypt is a symbol of false sense of security that the world has placed in the antichrist.This verse speaks of the death of the two Witnesses.This verse indicates that they will be crucified as Jesus was.Some translations say "where there Lord was crucified" This tells us two things 1.another clue that they might be christians. 2.The method of their death crucifixion.At the time of their deaths,the jewish people will recognize that Jesus is Messiah see Zechirah chapter 12.

ref.Rev.11:9-10

no burial for the two Witnesses

After the deaths of the two Witnesses their bodies will be unceremoniously dumped in the streets of Jerusalem.This is so important because jewish law requires them to be buried in 24 hours.They will be raised to life 3 and 1/2 days with every nation and tounge watching.this is made possible by our leaps in communication tecnology.People will give each other gifts like our christmas of today to celebrate the death of these two men who tormented the people of earth.


A foot note for you

This is about Zerubbable.The mention of Zerubbable in Zechariah is a prophetic one,if you study carefully, you will discover that he only repaired the temple of Solomon and and he did not rebuild it from the foundation up. The zurubbable of Zechariah is alive today.Has he met the two Witnesses yet? Only God knows the answer to that.
 Quoting: Jesse 9006464

for the new visitor
Jesse (OP)
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02/13/2012 11:36 PM
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Re: The two witnesses are gentiles
I hope that you all can keep a open mind when reading this.
Jesse (OP)
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02/14/2012 12:22 AM
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Re: The two witnesses are gentiles
I hope that you all can keep a open mind when reading this.
 Quoting: Jesse 9006464


This is not what is popular among scolars and theologians,but most of them don't even know what their purpose is nor do they care as long as it fits there understanding of it.
Jesse (OP)
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02/14/2012 01:21 AM
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Re: The two witnesses are gentiles
What do you think the two witnesses will be doing?
The Incarnation

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02/14/2012 01:39 AM
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Re: The two witnesses are gentiles
Since they have the power to shut up Heaven, I'd say being quiet.
Knowing the evils of soul, that is understanding.

Departing from the soul's evil, that is wisdom.
Anonymous Coward
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02/14/2012 01:55 AM
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Re: The two witnesses are gentiles
It is appointed once for man to die and then the judgement.

Two men in the bible never died but were taken bodily to heaven.

They will return and be killed but raised again.

I think the two men were Enoch and Elijah, not sure.

But anyway, for this passage to be true it must be true of all men, and these two didn't die, but will one day have to die. Their appointed time is yet to come though.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 7106716

Channoch never died on Ea/wrong/. Eli is here and Moses too.
They have new names. Their mothers are different but they are brothers. But too young to take their job, now.
They are gentiles, mothers were beautiful, with little noses, but strange.

The first and the last of them is here, too. His mother is of ancient origin of Isis, but the family came from Russia.
And He is Blonde like His mother dread-look rasta.

She was trying to escape from the government of her family,
12 years ago. She came back with a baby. The ring was sent to her before when the Towers fell down.


Strange family. 3 generations without father. Very wealthy and showing the mysteries in a great style - but not understood by average sheople.

Such a good fairytale>

Hmmm ?

YOUR MASTERS ARE LEADING U .s.r.y.
Jesse (OP)
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02/14/2012 04:53 AM
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Re: The two witnesses are gentiles
It is appointed once for man to die and then the judgement.

Two men in the bible never died but were taken bodily to heaven.

They will return and be killed but raised again.

I think the two men were Enoch and Elijah, not sure.

But anyway, for this passage to be true it must be true of all men, and these two didn't die, but will one day have to die. Their appointed time is yet to come though.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 7106716

Channoch never died on Ea/wrong/. Eli is here and Moses too.
They have new names. Their mothers are different but they are brothers. But too young to take their job, now.
They are gentiles, mothers were beautiful, with little noses, but strange.

The first and the last of them is here, too. His mother is of ancient origin of Isis, but the family came from Russia.
And He is Blonde like His mother dread-look rasta.

She was trying to escape from the government of her family,
12 years ago. She came back with a baby. The ring was sent to her before when the Towers fell down.


Strange family. 3 generations without father. Very wealthy and showing the mysteries in a great style - but not understood by average sheople.

Such a good fairytale>

Hmmm ?

YOUR MASTERS ARE LEADING U .s.r.y.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 790968


WHAT ON EARTH ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?
Jesse (OP)
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02/14/2012 11:59 PM
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Re: The two witnesses are gentiles
What do you think the two witnesses will be doing?
 Quoting: Jesse 9006464


They will be bringing the Jesus to the those of Israel that are still faithful to the Father and have not been corupted by the antichrist and the world church.
Jesse (OP)
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02/15/2012 12:07 AM
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Re: The two witnesses are gentiles
Since they have the power to shut up Heaven, I'd say being quiet.
 Quoting: The Incarnation


I would say not.
Anonymous Coward
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02/15/2012 12:33 PM
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Re: The two witnesses are gentiles
What do you think the two witnesses will be doing?
 Quoting: Jesse 9006464


They will be bringing the Jesus to the those of Israel that are still faithful to the Father and have not been corupted by the antichrist and the world church.
 Quoting: Jesse 9006464


[link to www.godlikeproductions.com]
Anonymous Coward
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02/15/2012 12:33 PM
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Re: The two witnesses are gentiles
What do you think the two witnesses will be doing?
 Quoting: Jesse 9006464


They will be bringing the Jesus to the those of Israel that are still faithful to the Father and have not been corupted by the antichrist and the world church.
 Quoting: Jesse 9006464


[link to www.godlikeproductions.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 10849916
The Watchman777

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Ireland
02/15/2012 12:34 PM
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Re: The two witnesses are gentiles
What do you think the two witnesses will be doing?
 Quoting: Jesse 9006464


They will be bringing the Jesus to the those of Israel that are still faithful to the Father and have not been corupted by the antichrist and the world church.
 Quoting: Jesse 9006464


[link to www.godlikeproductions.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 10849916


Why do you keep posting that absolute rubbish ???
The Watchman777

"O son of man, I HAVE SET THEE A WATCHMAN unto the house of Israel; therefore thou shalt hear the word at my mouth, and warn them from me... IF THOU DOST NOT SPEAK TO WARN THE WICKED from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but HIS BLOOD WILL I REQUIRE AT THINE HAND... IF THOU WARN THE WICKED of his way to turn from it; if he do not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but THOU HAST DELIVERED THY SOUL..." - Ezekiel 33:7-15
The Incarnation

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02/15/2012 12:39 PM
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Re: The two witnesses are gentiles
Since they have the power to shut up Heaven, I'd say being quiet.
 Quoting: The Incarnation


I would say not.
 Quoting: Jesse 9006464


Naturally.

You're too busy listening to your own babble.
Knowing the evils of soul, that is understanding.

Departing from the soul's evil, that is wisdom.
Jesse (OP)
User ID: 9006464
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02/15/2012 10:59 PM
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Re: The two witnesses are gentiles
Since they have the power to shut up Heaven, I'd say being quiet.
 Quoting: The Incarnation


I would say not.
 Quoting: Jesse 9006464


Naturally.

You're too busy listening to your own babble.
 Quoting: The Incarnation


I don't think that you get the point of christ being love.
I would be willing to hear your opinion on the prophesy if you have one."Incarnation" hmmm I don't know what you are tring to say with that title.I will be in prayer for you.
Jesse (OP)
User ID: 9006464
United States
02/16/2012 04:37 AM
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Re: The two witnesses are gentiles
It is appointed once for man to die and then the judgement.

Two men in the bible never died but were taken bodily to heaven.

They will return and be killed but raised again.

I think the two men were Enoch and Elijah, not sure.

But anyway, for this passage to be true it must be true of all men, and these two didn't die, but will one day have to die. Their appointed time is yet to come though.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 7106716

Channoch never died on Ea/wrong/. Eli is here and Moses too.
They have new names. Their mothers are different but they are brothers. But too young to take their job, now.
They are gentiles, mothers were beautiful, with little noses, but strange.

The first and the last of them is here, too. His mother is of ancient origin of Isis, but the family came from Russia.
And He is Blonde like His mother dread-look rasta.

She was trying to escape from the government of her family,
12 years ago. She came back with a baby. The ring was sent to her before when the Towers fell down.

better read the scripture.
Strange family. 3 generations without father. Very wealthy and showing the mysteries in a great style - but not understood by average sheople.

Such a good fairytale>

Hmmm ?

YOUR MASTERS ARE LEADING U .s.r.y.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 790968

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