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An answer to some Seventh-Day Adventist theology (Free Will, Daily Cross & Mystery Bablyon).

 
Philemon
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02/03/2012 06:35 AM
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An answer to some Seventh-Day Adventist theology (Free Will, Daily Cross & Mystery Bablyon).
This entire message was actually a response to a post in another thread. I decided that it was important enough to repost here so that others may see it and learn from it.


As far as I know They Uplift Jesus,
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward


The Seventh-Day Adventists do lift up a Jesus but certainly not the Jesus of the bible. This is what they believe concerning the ability of men to choose God:

Adventist teaching strongly emphasises free will; EACH INDIVIDUAL IS FREE TO EITHER ACCEPT OR REJECT GOD'S OFFER OF SALVATION. Adventists therefore oppose the Calvinistic/Reformed doctrines of predestination (or unconditional election), limited atonement and perseverance of the saints ("once saved always saved"). Questions on Doctrine stated that Adventists believe "That man is FREE TO CHOOSE or REJECT the offer of salvation through Christ; we DO NOT BELIEVE that God has predetermined that some men shall be saved and others lost."[24] The freedom of each individual to accept or reject God is integral to the Great Controversy theme.

"God could have prevented sin by creating a universe of robots that would do only what they were programmed to do. But God's love demanded that He create beings who could respond freely to His love—and such a response is possible only from beings who have the power of choice."[82]
 Quoting: [link to en.wikipedia.org]


Such a doctrinal stance is in direct opposition to the teachings of Christ and the bible.

John 6:44 NO MAN CAN COME TO ME, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. Jesus spoke these words:

Matthew 16:16, 17 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: FOR FLESH AND BLOOD HATH NOT REVEALED IT UNTO THEE, BUT MY FATHER WHICH IS IN HEAVEN.

Luke 10:21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank THEE, O FATHER, Lord of heaven and earth, that THOU HAST HID THESE THINGS from the wise and prudent, and hast REVEALED THEM unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.


Paul spoke these words:

Romans 3:9,11 What then? are we better [than they]? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both jewish people and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; as it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: there is none that understandeth, there is NONE THAT SEEKETH AFTER GOD.

Romans 9:14-16 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then IT IS NOT OF HIM THAT WILLETH, NOR OF HIM THAT RUNNETH, but of God that sheweth mercy.

Romans 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and WHOM HE WILL HE HARDENETH.


So, clearly, their view on salvation is already in major error. But there is more.

....the Ten Commandments
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward


There is a Seventh-Day Adventists church directly across the street of my house. I can literally walk across the street and be on their grounds within 2 minutes or less. Every Saturday the congregants drive their cars to the church to have worship service. Do they realize that in doing so they have violated the Sabbath? When a car starts, what happens is fires are ignited in the cylinders of the motor. And the lighting of fires on a Sabbath was an offense punishable by death in the OT.

Exodus 35:3 Ye shall kindle no fire throughout your habitations upon the sabbath day.

Exodus 35:2 Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death.


But besides that, Paul clearly states that literal Sabbaths are no longer required to be observed. But as NT Christians, we are to be observing the spiritual Sabbath, which is every single day and not just on Sunday or Saturday.

Colossians 2:16, 17 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: WHICH ARE A SHADOW of things to come; but the body is of Christ.


and Have a Prophet who's teachings are compatible with the Bible 100%

She is The Author of More Books then any other women in History
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward


And yet Ellen blatantly ignores the command of Paul:

1Timothy 2:11, 12 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

How many of the books of the bible were written by women? None, because women were supposed to be in subjection to their fathers or husbands. Clearly SDA theology is centered largely around the teachings of a woman. That alone should raise a red flag that something is not right.

Nobody who has read one of Her Books could possibly say that it wasn't from God.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward


The woman was an out-and-out liar. Do some research on her if you're really interested.

[link to www.1timothy4-13.com]

They don't teach any doctrine about Crosses whatsoever, That I have heard of, nor any other extra items are required.
All that is needed is Christ, watch the Videos If you want, you wont find traditions of men in them.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward


I am aware that SDA do not believe in praying to literal crosses and such. What I was referring to was the daily cross commanded by Christ that we must carry, without which we cannot be his disciple (learner).

Luke 14:27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.

Do you know what a cross is or how to get one? First of all, the cross we are required to carry is not literal. Secondly, we get a cross from telling people the truth and living a godly life. Jesus was condemned to a literal cross for telling the truth:

John 8:40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.

We are condemned to a figurative cross for telling the truth:

Galatians 4:16 Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

2Timothy 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

Galatians 6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.


The actual Traditions of Men are anything that is put above God, the Bible or above The Commandments.
 Quoting: quote:Anonymous Coward


You are absolutely right. This is also Mystery Babylon, a system of men's traditions. And the Great Whore is more than simply the Roman Catholic Church: it is the entire philosophy of man which exalts itself above God.

The Pharisees of The Jewish ceremonies and Roman Catholic Latin Mass is what springs to my mind.
 Quoting: quote:Anonymous Coward


Yes, but there is more to it than that. Each and every system or person which contradicts God is antichrist, and the antichrist system is the Whore system.

Now any Religion institution on earth can put their pastor/priest/preacher's word on a pedestal, many of them say the Commandments of God are Finished, which I can't find in my Bible anywhere & in fact the opposite is what it reads in my Bible: Revelation 12:17/Revelation 14:12
 Quoting: quote:Anonymous Coward


There are more than ten commandments. It is true that the older commandments have never been done away with. However, the rituals of the OT were annulled and are finished. This means there is no requirement to observe literal feast days or sabbaths. However, all such feast days and the sabbaths are now to be observed figuratively. Paul gives us an example:

1Corinthians 5:6, 7 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

Please note that Paul was not referring to the keeping of a literal feast. For if Paul were referring to the keeping of a literal feast, then we could conclude that Paul was also calling Christ a literal lamb, which is obviously not true. Also note that Paul referred to the man who committed adultery with his step-mother as spiritual leaven (vv.1-5).
Anonymous Coward
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02/03/2012 06:53 AM
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Re: An answer to some Seventh-Day Adventist theology (Free Will, Daily Cross & Mystery Bablyon).
Matthew 7:8 For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.
Philemon (OP)

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02/03/2012 07:26 AM
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Re: An answer to some Seventh-Day Adventist theology (Free Will, Daily Cross & Mystery Bablyon).
Matthew 7:8 For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward


Who causes the person to seek in the first place? If you are implying that this verse proves Free Will, then maybe you should read the next passage.

Romans 3:9,11 What then? are we better [than they]? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both jewish people and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; as it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: there is none that understandeth, there is NONE THAT SEEKETH AFTER GOD.

So if there are none that seeks after God, who causes them those who do seek God to even want to do it at all? Clearly, this passage demolishes the theory of Free Will.
Anonymous Coward
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02/03/2012 07:32 AM
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Re: An answer to some Seventh-Day Adventist theology (Free Will, Daily Cross & Mystery Bablyon).
Matthew 7:8 For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward


Who causes the person to seek in the first place? If you are implying that this verse proves Free Will, then maybe you should read the next passage.

Romans 3:9,11 What then? are we better [than they]? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both jewish people and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; as it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: there is none that understandeth, there is NONE THAT SEEKETH AFTER GOD.

So if there are none that seeks after God, who causes them those who do seek God to even want to do it at all? Clearly, this passage demolishes the theory of Free Will.
 Quoting: Philemon


You are choosing Paul over Jesus. FYI And you are wrong: our free will is the only thing God is interested in even though we are not free absolutely:

… Should you not fear me?" declares the LORD. "Should you not tremble in my presence? I made the sand a boundary for the sea, an everlasting barrier it cannot cross. The waves may roll, but they cannot prevail; they may roar, but they cannot cross it. Jeremiah 5:22


Do not preach your nonsence.
Philemon (OP)

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02/03/2012 08:25 PM
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Re: An answer to some Seventh-Day Adventist theology (Free Will, Daily Cross & Mystery Bablyon).
You are choosing Paul over Jesus. FYI And you are wrong: our free will is the only thing God is interested in even though we are not free absolutely:

… Should you not fear me?" declares the LORD. "Should you not tremble in my presence? I made the sand a boundary for the sea, an everlasting barrier it cannot cross. The waves may roll, but they cannot prevail; they may roar, but they cannot cross it. Jeremiah 5:22


Do not preach your nonsence.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward


You are a foolish person.

Jesus' Predestination verses:

John 6:44 NO MAN CAN COME TO ME, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 15:16 YE HAVE NOT CHOSEN ME, but I have chosen you, AND ORDAINED YOU, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

John 10:26, 27 But YE BELIEVE NOT, BECAUSE YE ARE NOT MY OF MY SHEEP, as I said unto you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me

Matthew 13:10, 11 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, Because IT IS GIVEN UNTO YOU TO KNOW THE MYSTERIES OF THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN, BUT TO THEM IT IS NOT GIVEN.

Luke 10:21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I THANK THEE, O FATHER, LORD OF HEAVEN AND EARTH, THAT THOU HAST HID THESE THINGS FROM THE WISE AND PRUDENT, AND HAST REVEALED THEM UNTO BABES; FOR SO IT SEEMED GOOD IN THY SIGHT.

Matthew 16:16, 17 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, BLESSED ARE THOU, SIMON BARJONA: FOR FLESH AND BLOOD HAD NOT REVEALED IT UNTO THEE, BUT MY FATHER WHICH IS IN HEAVEN.


Luke's Predestination verses:

Acts 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: AND AS MANY AS WERE ORDAINED TO ETERNAL LIFE BELIEVED.

John's Predestination verses:

John 1:12, 13 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: WHICH WERE BORN, NOT OF BLOOD, NOR OF THE WILL OF THE FLESH, NOR OF THE WILL OF MAN, BUT OF GOD.

John 12:37-40 But though [Jesus] had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him: that the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed? THEREFORE THEY COULD NOT BELIEVE, BECAUSE THAT ESAIAS SAID AGAIN, [THE LORD] HATH BLINDED THEIR EYES, HARDENED THEIR HEARTS; THAT THEY SHOULD NOT SEE WITH THEIR EYES, NOR UNDERSTAND WITH THEIR HEART, AND BE CONVERTED, AND I SHOULD HEAL THEM.

Revelation 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, WHOSE NAMES WERE NOT WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Revelation 20:15 And WHOSOEVER WAS NOT FOUND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE was cast into the lake of fire.


OT Predestination verses:

Pro 20:24 Man's steps are of Jehovah; how can a man then understand his own way?

Jer 10:23 O Jehovah, I know that the way of man does not belong to man; it is not in man who walks to direct his steps.

Pro 21:1 The king's heart is in the hand of Jehovah as the rivers of water; He turns it wherever He will.

Pro 16:1 The ordering of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from Jehovah.

Pro 16:9 A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps.

Isa 63:17 O Jehovah, why have You made us wander from Your ways. You harden our heart from Your fear? For Your servants' sake, return the tribes of Your inheritance.

Exo 4:21 And Jehovah said to Moses, When you go to return into Egypt, see that you do all those wonders which I have put in your hand before Pharaoh; but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go. (Exodus 7:3; 9:12; 10:1; 11:10; 14:4)

Exo 14:17 And behold! I am about to harden the hearts of the Egyptians, and they shall follow them. And I will get honor for Me upon Pharaoh, and upon all his army, upon his chariots and upon his horsemen.

Deu 2:30 But Sihon king of Heshbon would not let us pass by him. For Jehovah your God hardened his spirit and made his heart stubborn so that He might deliver him into your hand, as it is this day.

Deu 29:4 Yet Jehovah has not given you a heart to perceive, and eyes to see, and ears to hear, until today.

Jos 11:20 For it was of Jehovah to harden their hearts so that they should come against Israel in battle, so that they might be destroyed, so that they might have no favor, but that He might destroy them, as Jehovah commanded Moses.


Your biblical error is astounding. I suggest you actually study the bible before teaching it. If you continue to hate what the bible says, then I suggest finding another religion more to your liking.
Philemon (OP)

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02/03/2012 09:01 PM
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Re: An answer to some Seventh-Day Adventist theology (Free Will, Daily Cross & Mystery Bablyon).
Another thing I forgot to mention in my first post was that of circumcision and Jewishness. Paul states that we, believing Christians, are spiritual Judeans and spiritual Israelites because we are circumcised of the heart.

Romans 2:28, 29 For he is not a Judean, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: but he is a Judean which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Galatians 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.


Literal circumcision was a requirement for all believing males under the OT Law.

Genesis 17:14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.

But literal circumcision under the NT is no longer required.

1Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

However, what is now required is spiritual circumcision of the heart. Now all believers, literal descendants of Abraham or not, are termed the circumcision (which means Jewish people).

Philippians 3:3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
Ohwow!

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02/04/2012 09:46 PM

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Re: An answer to some Seventh-Day Adventist theology (Free Will, Daily Cross & Mystery Bablyon).
I did not know they were free will, meaning you can decide to follow Jesus or reject him, salvation is up to your choice.

I like reading a lot of their writings (not Ellen G White) They seem to know their Bible.

There seems to be a schism developing within the SDA concerning their 501-c tax exempt status by joining hands with the very beast system they speak against.

What put me off was the (I think the count is right) 21 points of agreement that you have to sign off on to become a member, one of them was something to do with Ellen G White, no way do I follow the exaltation of any "man"

The apostles were different. They were "called elected and chosen to write by the Holy Spirit all they saw and heard - Here they are here, kind of sets them off from the rest of the self proclaimed Apostles walking around.

And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
Revelation 21:14
Philemon (OP)

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Re: An answer to some Seventh-Day Adventist theology (Free Will, Daily Cross & Mystery Bablyon).
I did not know they were free will, meaning you can decide to follow Jesus or reject him, salvation is up to your choice.
 Quoting: Ohwow!


Neither did I. It did not surprise me too much, considering the fact that modern Christianity is basically defined by its Free Will theology.

I like reading a lot of their writings (not Ellen G White) They seem to know their Bible.
 Quoting: Ohwow!


It is possible to find a bible scholar from a different denomination of Christendom who offers valuable information on the bible, and even learn much of the bible from them.

For example, I often refer to a Jehovah's Witness bible dictionary, and am usually satisfied with their answers. I will even refer to other Free Will Christian teachers on various issues to extract the truth from them.

Of course, though, this does not mean that I will be becoming a Jehovah's Witness nor a Free Will Christian anytime soon, considering their fatal errors in Soteriology. But the fact remains that truth is truth no matter who it came from.

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