<<Advancing Bird Flu-H5N1...now its Vietnam and spreading?

[link to timesofindia.indiatimes.com]

[link to theextinctionprotocol.wordpress.com]

p://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=pt&u= [link to www.pagina3.com.br]

Hi MzTreeChich,

Excellent work, as per your usual dilligence.

Your thoughts on possible vaccinnes may be the closest guess yet, given the time and geographic seperations.

Id hate to think it, but if big Pharma wanted to do double blind human field trials without the necessity of having to contain all the information and data, then this would be a perfect way to observe those tests.

Simply distrubute all the variations of your test vaccines into known areas and in known numbers and wait for the results.

This would explain why there is no clustering and various other appearingly mysterious aspects being found in this select group of sufferers.

If this is the case then nobody will ever be able to explain this event, well except those that engineered it, if that is in fact the case.

Its a very scary potential to have to consider.

[link to investmentwatchblog.com]

UKAnon,

My jaw just dropped, and then I read your response. I too can to the same conclusion!

I HATE THIS!!!!!!!

Just becasue you can does not mean that you should!

Good thing they have vaccines to deal with the mutations THEY are creating (massively huge sarcasm... or is it?)

Hi Arkay,

I have found some links for you to peruse, I get the impression that UKAnon is well aware of the below. I'm pretty sure you both understand how I feel about it all.

[link to www.apfn.org] Secret US human bio experimentation

[link to www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com] A lot of links in info on this one

[link to www.naturalnews.com]

uk newspaper, link not allowed - 22 July 2009 - The Australian government has already ordered 21m doses of CSL's vaccine for use in Australia, should it be proved to work. "We have a specific vaccine that we believe will be able to protect millions of people against this new H1N1 flu," Andrew Cuthbertson, CSL's director of research and development, told reporters. He called swine flu "a novel strain of influenza", and said the trial would determine the dose and schedule of the vaccination. Petrovsky said it would be six to eight weeks before results would verify whether a vaccine was effective. "There is no guarantee any of these vaccines will work," he said. "Swine flu is a very peculiar beast. It is a very different virus that we're dealing with. But we are hopeful."





Last Edited by MzTreeChick on 07/05/2012 11:08 PM

[link to www.abs-cbnnews.com]

HONG KONG - Hong Kong on Thursday closed a popular tourist spot where hundreds of caged birds are on display after the deadly H5N1 avian flu virus was detected at one of the stalls.

Phew!, I cant keep up with all of you today, but please let me thank you all for all your dilligent works, actually Im getting a cold and I feel lousy, but thats not relevant, so please keep all this valuable information rolling in, as I believe that we are actually witnessing a new something in the making.

This link above is indicative of what Ive been senseing for the last few weeks as the flu season has been transitioning to the Southern Hemisphere, and with H1N1, showing signs of re-emergence.

This is really looking to be a bad year for it, as it is at present seemingly spreading at an alarming rate if you take into account where the current major clusters are, and keep in mind the recent re-assements that the WHO made on just how many people did die fron the 2009 pandemic, the claim was underestinated by a, times 15 factor, so this bug is not to be taken lightly.

Another factor that does seem to be emerging is that it seems to be affecting people with already compromised immune systems.

Now conventional thinking as least in terms of CYTOKINE STORMS is that the stronger the immune system the more likely the damage will be and that is in the delicate lung tissues.

This current round of H1N1 seems to be acting almost opposite those parameters.

Can anyone offer any insights to this as it leaves me wondering.

Heres a link to CYTOKINE STORMS...

[link to www.cytokinestorm.com]

With the deepest of humility, I apolagise that I had to leave this thread to all you wonderful contributors earlier today, just as I was trying to get my head around everything that you were all posting, nothing much other than some concreters trying to lay concerete in unforecast rain...not a lot of fun.

But, youve all managed to do an incredible job and just a quich look tells me that Im not really needed, but as soon as I can, I will get back on here and try to work through some of the questions and thoughts posted.

Please remember, that I too am just a punter in this subject and Im already seeing some quite sophisticated thinking, that Im hoping that some genuine professional can answer, as I feel that some of my responses will be little more than some logical ptogression of what I understand, but of course I will always do my best.

I already have some answers that I didnt have time to post today but I hope that they might clarrify some of the simpler questions, hopefully tomorrow I will be able to dedicate some real time to your questions.

In the mean time please keep up all your dilligent works, they truely are diverse, and very helpful to the overall direction and intent of this, our thread.

again thank you all, you are all wonderfull people.

cheers
arkay

MzTreeChich,

In answer to just a part of your post here, I have been fortunate enough to obtain a copy of exactly is in Australias H1N1 fluvax.

I havent had the time to fully research all the implications contained theirin, but from what I do understand, its not all good.

Im going to copy and paste the whole document below.

I do understand that our CSL that produces this vaccine has not felt the need to modify this vaccine, though that information is a little dated as of todat.

This might have changed, but somehow I think not, based on the comments of my informant.

For privacy for my provider, I have run this document through "word" and then "notebook" just to eliminate any traceable details, that was the least I could do for this person, who tells me the HE/SHE is directly employed in the field of pandenic containment here in Australia.

so here it is, sorry for its size, the reformatting made it somewhat large.

H1N1 - Panvax


Swine Flu Vaccination




Delivering a Healthy


Goal


• The goal of the pandemic vaccination
program is to provide protection to the
pandemic virus by vaccinating as many
people as quickly as possible, using an
approach which targets specific population
groups




Rationale


The underlying principles for targeting groups in Australia
include:

• To prevent severe disease in those vulnerable to more
severe outcomes
• To prevent spread of disease to the vulnerable by
vaccinating their contacts
• To protect those at high risk of exposure because of their
work
• To protect health care services and reduce healthcare
worker staff absenteeism
• To mitigate potential economic impact on the Australian
pig industry
• To provide herd immunity




Priority Tiers


First Tier

•Pregnant women


Some women who have caught
H1N1 have miscarried or gone
into premature labour

•Medically at risk-
vulnerable
population
•Health care workers
•Indigenous



Second Tier (early 2010)

•Children not covered by 1st
tier
aged 6 months < 10years
•School aged children




Age cut offs in Priority Tier One


• Indigenous People -
All people aged 6 months and
older will be included
• Vulnerable (including medically at risk) -
All people
aged 6 months and older will be included
There is no older age cut off proposed.




Defining of Health care workers


• HCW:
An employee, student or volunteer who has direct contact
with patients, either in the community or at a dedicated health
service sited, in both public and private sectors limited to the
following:
• Aboriginal medical services
• General practice
• Ambulance services (includes RFDS)
• Remote or community health clinics and nursing posts
• Hospitals
• Prisons
• Satellite dialysis units
• Post acute care services in the home (eg
silver chain)




• Community care workers: an employee,
student or volunteer who has direct contact
with patients, either in the community or at a
dedicated site, limited to the following:
• Aged care
• Disability services




Who gets the vaccine directly?


•Metropolitan Public
Hospitals
•Regional Hospitals
•Private Hospitals and Day
Surgeries
•St Johns Ambulance
•Prisons
•Community Health
Clinics
•GP surgeries



•Residential Aged Care
Facilities
•Disability Service
Facilities
•RFDS
•Private satellite Dialysis
Units
•Public Satellite Dialysis
Units
•Aboriginal Medical
Services




• Vaccine ordering and delivery is as per usual
ordering mechanisms for those recipients
listed under “who gets the vaccine directly”.




Why do people need to be
vaccinated


• As this is a new strain of the influenza A virus,
most people do not have any natural immunity
so they are more likely to catch this new ‘flu’
then they are to catch the seasonal flu.
• This vaccine will prevent those with
underlying medical conditions from
developing severe illness




Product Information


•Information provided may change!
•You will be notified of the changes
by the State Government




Which vaccine is to be used to treat
H1N1 Pandemic Influenza?


At least 95 per cent of children have at least one bout of rotavirus gastroenteritis by the time they're five. It spreads quickly in day cares. In severe cases, children need to be hospitalized.

Panvax H1N1 monovalent
Vaccine - CSL


Panvax is a vaccine which
has been made to provide
immunity to the pandemic
2009 influenza strain of
the influenza A virus – a
new strain of the
influenza A virus



Product Description


Panvax is supplied as:

• a clear liquid in
• 10ml Multi dose vials with a latex free rubber
stopper
• Vaccine for children 6 months to 10 years of
age will be provided in single dose pre-filled
syringes (thiomersal free)
• Boxes of 10 vials or may come to start with
boxes of 50 vials .




What’s in Panvax?


Vaccine
Specifications:



The basic vaccine formulation is as
follows:


• Monovalent vaccine
• 15ug of antigen per 0.5mls
• Unadjuvanted
(Adjuvants are compounds used to
enhance the immune response to vaccination –
The
use of adjuvanted vaccines on a large scale carries
the risk that previously unrecognised side effects will
not occur.
That the risk is increased if the adjuvant
has not been widely used in man or has not
previously been combined with influenza antigens)




• 10ml Multi Dose Vials (containing thiomersal
–
compound partly composed of mercury and
ethylmercury.


-
Used to prevent bacterial and fungal
contamination of vaccines



Causes a toxic effect after it reaches a
certain level in the body


• Whether or not it reaches a toxic effect after it
reaches a certain level in the body depends on


-
the amount of mercury consumed and

-
the persons body weight.

• Individuals with very low body weight are usually
more susceptible to toxic effects from a certain
intake of mercury. HENCE…….
• Vaccine for children 6 months to 10 years of age will
be provided in single dose pre-filled syringes
(thiomersal free)




According to the Commonwealth


• There is no evidence that thiomersal has
caused any developmental or neurological
abnormalities, such as ADHD or Autism




Other components According to
Product Information–
Each 0.5mls
contains


• Sub units of A/California/7/2009 (H1N1) v-like
virus
• 15ug haemagglutinin
• As stated –
0.01%w/v Thiomersal as a
preservative




Each 0.5mls also contains


• Sodium Chloride 4.1mg
• Sodium phosphate –dibasic anhydrous 0.3mg
• Sodium phosphate-
monobasic 80ug
• Potassium chloride 20 ug
• Potassium phosphate –
monobasic 20 ug
• Calcium chloride 1.5ug


Explanation of contents in Appendices in 9th
ed
handbook under Vaccine Content



The following are present per dose:


• Taurodeoxycholate
=
5ug (Bile salt-related, anionic
detergent) (can give red eyes, blurred vision etc)
• Ovalbumin
=
1.0ug
• Sucrose <10ug
• Neomycin =
0.7ug – check for allergies to this antibiotic
• Polymyxin
B sulfate =0.11ng– check for allergies to this antibiotic
• Beta-propiolactone
=1.4ng




Dosage and Administration



Take note……..


• Previously --
The vaccination course
consists of 2 doses of 15ug of antigen
at least 21 days apart. … This now no
longer applies
• The vaccination course consists of
1 dose of 15ug of antigen for those
aged 9 years of age and older



Changes

• Children aged 6 months to <9years
of
age require 2 doses with a minimal
interval of 21 days



[link to www.sanantonio.gov]
Changes

Name

Doses

Tier of
administration

1st
dose

2nd
dose

Minimum
interval
between
doses

Panvax

It is given
IM not
subcut
like
seasonal
flu.
There is
a greater
chance
of side
effects if
given
sub cut.

1 (One) IM
dose
(0.5ml/dose)

>9years

2 (Two) IM
dose

(0.25ml/dose)

6mths-<3yrs

2 (Two) IM
dose

(0.5ml/dose)

3-9years

TIER 1

Pregnant
women

Medically at
risk (>6
months)

Health care
workers

Indigenous

( >6 months)

Pregnant
women in
their 2nd
and
3rd
trimester

Individuals
aged 10
years old and
over will be
able to
receive this
formulation
of 15ug of
antigen per
0.5ml

=21days

Can give
in 1st
Trimester

That is for
eg. given
accidently
not
knowing if
client was
pregnant

Or if client
requests
it.

21 days





Please Note -- CHANGES


• It is recommended that all children under 10
years of age wait for the thiomersal
free
vaccine
• Yes the vaccine is available to those =
6
months of age and so if clients request the
vaccine and are aware of the vaccine content
they may receive the thiomersal
vaccine with
out waiting for the thiomersal
free vaccine




Use with other vaccines?


• Panvax can be given with other vaccines
• It is not a live vaccine so no special waiting
times when administering other vaccines




How much is given?


• 1 (One) IM dose (0.5ml/dose)


>9years

• 2 (Two) IM dose


(0.25ml/dose)

6mths-<3yrs

• 2 (Two) IM dose


(0.5ml/dose)

3-9 years


Changes

Administration and instructions for
use and handling


• Panvax is for IM injection
• Vaccine that has been drawn into syringes in
preparation for administration must be used on the
day they are drawn
• Hence –
same day use (end of clinic, surgery or day)
in drawn up syringe
• Punctured Multi Dose Vials can remain in the fridge
for up to 24hours since date of first opening (may
change)




• Check and observe vial for clear fluid
• The contents of the vial should be inspected visually
before and after shaking for any foreign particulate
matter and or abnormal physical appearance prior to
administration
• Once drawn up into a syringe it is for single use only
• ALSO -
once drawn up into syringe –
must be
discarded at the end of the
day/clinic etc
DO NOT
STORE DRAWN UP SYRINGES FOR NEXT CLINIC
DAYS AND DO NOT DRAW UP VACCINE FOR THE
WHOLE WEEK OR FOR NUMEROUS VACCINATION
CLINICS!




Preparing Panvax



•Record the date and time of opening on
the MDV


DO NOT USE MDV if:

-sterility is breached

-cold chain is breached (outside 2-8°C)

-expiry date reached

-More than 24 hours since date of first
opening (may change again) and
contact_________________________
for advice on how to discard (see cold
chain section)


•Wipe the diaphragm of the MDV
with an alcohol swap
•If taking doses from an already
opened MDV, check opening date
and then wipe the diaphragm with
alcohol prior to use



ONE


TWO



•Using an aseptic ‘no-touch’
technique, insert into the diaphragm a
new single use sterile drawing up
needle for the extraction of doses



•Draw up each single dose required
into separate new sterile syringes
and attached a new sterile
administration needle
•Each single dose vaccine must be
used (within 7 hours of drawing up
vaccine) and/discarded at the end
of clinic session



THREE


FOUR



•When the required number
of doses have been
extracted, remove the
drawing up needle and
dispose in appropriate
sharps container
•If contents of the MDV are
not all used, refrigerate the
MDV (+2-8°C)



NB: Unused vaccine
should be discarded
through normal medical
waste mechanisms


FIVE


SIX



• Gloves are not recommended for routine
immunisation service providers. However, in
a pandemic influenza environment, PPE -
mask, eyewear, gloves and gown may be
indicated for protection of the vaccine
administrator if need be.




Vaccine distribution


• First delivery of vaccines –
Contact the 9388
number on the order form if you require more
vaccines on your first order
• 50 pack of 10ml vials = 18-20 doses per vial
• 10 pack of 10ml vials = 18-20 doses per vial
• End of September delivery changes
• 10 pack of 5ml vials = 10 doses per vial




Cold Chain


• As per Strive for 5 Guidelines
• Store at +2-+8oC
• Refrigerate do not Freeze and protect from light
• If the vaccine has been exposed to a cold chain breach, do not
discard but isolate vaccines, inform other staff and label them
“Do not use”. Keep the vaccines stored at +2-+8°C and contact
________________________ for advice
• Cold chain breaches are to be reported through normal
channels of reporting.
For eg. contacting the divisions of
general practice, Regional Immunisation Coordinators, the
Central Immunisation clinic etc in order to obtain advice.




• If MDV is to be used throughout an immunisation clinic and left
on a work bench for easy access so you do not have to go into
the fridge repeatedly -
• -
ensure that the MDV is placed within a kidney dish, protected
from light and the kidney dish is placed on top of an ice block to
maintain the cold chain.
• -
drawn up vaccines can remain within the kidney dish whilst
vaccinating
• NB: always check the coldness of the cold pack an the cold
pack must be ‘sweated’ first upon removal from the freezer.




Common Questions



If I had Human Swine flu do I need to
be vaccinated?



• If you have been diagnosed with swine flu –
confirmed by testing, then No vaccination is
required
• If you have been told you had swine flu but
not confirmed testing then you can get
vaccinated




If someone was on Tamiflu
can they
be vaccinated?



Yes


• Tamiflu
is an antiviral working on infections




How long after the vaccination am I
protected



• On average it takes about 2-4 weeks to fully
develop protection against Human Swine Flu




How long am I protected??



• 1 year protection




Is the vaccine safe???



• Clinical trials have shown that the vaccine is
safe on those who participated. The
Australian Government has granted
exemption from registration for this vaccine
to make it available for use as soon as
possible.
• Ongoing assessment of the vaccine will
continue to monitor its safety and also
identify if a booster dose (a second shot) is
required to provide you with immunity to the
virus.




According to the vaccine trials
group and CSL on adults and now
kids


• Only common side effects have occurred –
eg
pain, swelling and redness at the injection
site




Can Thiomersal
be given to pregnant
women?



• Thiomersal
has a very long safety record and
has not been shown to have any long term
problems
• Influenza vaccines are safe during pregnancy
and are normally recommended for pregnant
women. The Panvax® H1N1 vaccine is not a
‘live’ vaccine and is not a risk to unborn
babies.
• Expectant mothers may have some side
effects from vaccination but this is usually
only a sore, red arm, or slight headache.




If I had the seasonal flu do I need to
get this additional vaccine (even
during pregnancy?) ?



• Yes
• This new vaccine protects people against
pandemic influenza –
Human Swine Flu.
• The seasonal vaccine gives no protection
against this new strain




Who should not get the vaccine?



People with a known severe allergy to eggs
should not be given the vaccine ---
(anaphylactic hypersensitivity)


Characterised
by

• Generalised
hives
• Swelling of the mouth and throat
• Difficulty in breathing, wheeze
• Low BP and
• Shock




• And as usual:
- Anaphylaxis following a previous dose of the
relevant vaccine, and
- Anaphylaxis following any component of the relevant
vaccine
• Also check allergies to:
- Neomycin
- Polymyxin
B
- Especially if the client has had an anaphylactic
hypersensitivity to the above anti biotics




Be aware of false contraindications
to vaccinations


• Conditions listed in Table 1.3.4 page 21 in the
Immunisation hand book outlines false
contraindications.
• People with these conditions should be
vaccinated with all recommended vaccines




Corticosteroids – just take note...


• Clients on daily doses of corticosteroids
(Adults in excess of
60mgof prednisilone; Children in excess of either 2mg/kg per
day for more than a week or 1mg/kg daily for 4 weeks) will
greatly suppress the immune system
• which means that not only is the vaccine unlikely to be
effective, but there is an increased chance of adverse events
occurring
as a result of immunosuppression
• just like any vaccine you can still vaccinate however the
protection offered will be greatly reduced…….


-
Partial protection is better than no protection. If the client
was to catch swine flu and was vaccinated ---
the
symptoms may not be as severe



What about other medication??



• Some medications may interfere with
influenza vaccines as discussed.
• Others include:
- Some treatments for cancer (including
radiation therapy)
- Cyclosporine-
immunosuppressant drug




What are the side effects from the
vaccine?



Common side effects include:


- Pain and redness at the injection site
- Drowsiness or tiredness
- Muscle aches
- Low grade fever
- Malaise
- Headache
- General Public can report side effects by calling the
Adverse Medicine Events Line on 1300 134 237.




Very rare side effects


• Severe allergic reaction (anaphylaxis)
• Guillian-Barre Syndrome (nervous system
disorder featuring paralysis)




History of Guillian-Barre Syndrome
(GBS)


• Risks and benefits of the influenza and H1N1
pandemic influenza vaccine should be
weighed against the potential risk of GBS
recurrence
• Specialist advice advised
• NB People with a history of GBS may be at
risk of recurrence of the condition following
influenza vaccine




Will I get GBS from this vaccine?


• From the evidence collected by experts:
• GBS is 4 to 7 times more likely after an attack
of the actual flu than after the influenza
vaccine
• There have been reports overseas of a
possible association between influenza
vaccinations and GBS




Hasn’t the pandemic flu peaked –
isn’t it too late for me to benefit from
the vaccine??



• We don’t know that the pandemic has peaked
• Its never too late to gain immunity
• Experience from countries in the northern
hemisphere this year has also shown that
pandemic influenza can continue to spread in
the summer months
• Vaccination will protect you through summer
and into the flu season next year




Pandemic (H1N1) 2009 Influenza
Vaccination Packs



• This Pandemic (H1N1) 2009 VacPac (VacPac)
contains equipment sufficient for the
administration of 200 doses of pandemic
H1N1 2009 influenza vaccine (vaccine).
• A mini VacPac
is only available for GP
surgeries and only includes syringes and
needles only
• The components of each VacPac are listed
below:




Item

Quantity/Packaging

1mL syringes

1 box x 220 syringes

Drawing up needles 19g x 38mm

1 box x 220 needles

Injection needles 23g x 25mm

1 box x 200 needles

Injection needles 23g x 38mm

1 box x 40 needles

Alcohol Swabs

1 box x 220 swabs

Sharps containers

3 individual sharps containers

Disposable dishes

6 individual dishes

Disposable Gloves

1 box x 110 gloves

Clinical waste bags and closure
devices

2 individual bags and closures

Sticking Plaster

1 box x 110 plasters

Alcohol Hand Rub

2 x 500mL bottles with
dispensers

Cotton Wool Balls

1 bag x 220 cotton wool balls




GP mini VacPac


Item

Quantity/Packaging

1mL syringes

1 box x 220 syringes

Drawing up needles 19g x 38mm

1 box x 200 needles

Injection needles 23g x 25mm

1 box x 200 needles

Injection needles 23g x 38mm

1 box x 40 needles




• Some additional quantities of each
component are provided to cover normal
levels of wastage that may occur in a mass
vaccination situation.
• The 19g x 38mm needles have been included
for drawing up. 23g x 25mm needles can be
used for administering the vaccine to the
majority of the population.
• A quantity of 23g x 38mm needles has also
been provided for use with obese adults.




AND FINALLY


•Consent
•Consent is needed because the
vaccine is not registered



Changes

• Please note when the vaccine becomes
registered –
there is no need to use the
Commonwealths consent form



Changes

Child and Adult consent form

Containing the following:

- Fact sheet on the vaccine and what pandemic
influenza 2009 is
- Effects of the disease, possible side effects of
vaccination, contraindications and what to do to
reduce side effects
- Care after vaccination
- Pre vaccination checklist
- Client record following vaccination




Consent forms –
data uptake
only if the vaccine is unregistered


• Completed consent cards will need to be
faxed or scanned to the Department of Health
Communicable Disease Control Directorate
to be entered on the data base
• For this reason we will be able to monitor
dosages and organise
the help desk



Changes

• For GP surgeries and all other
clinics/hospitals you will need to fax/scan or
email consent cards and send it to a 1800:
Number to be advised
• A call centre will be organised
which will act
as a help line to check to see if people have
been vaccinated i.e. which doses they have
had. This number is for health staff only!
• 1800 243 522
• 180 2007 –
is for the general public




Quick Consent – just a thought!


• It may be best to get clients together and do a group
consent prior to vaccination.
• I.E. 1 nurse to go through consent


-
1 admin to check to see it is filled and direct
any errors back to consent nurse (optional)

-
then clients can see the vaccinator

• That way the vaccinator does not have to go through
the consent




Trivalent vaccine


• To be included in the seasonal influenza
vaccine
• ?? Next year




You will receive with each vaccine
order:


• Your vaccine
• Vacpacks
• Consent forms
• ADRAC (adverse events form)

There are and have been significant theraputical questions raised over this vaccine and readers only need to go back a few pages to read some of the complications that were eventually attributed to this vaccine.

It might be a case of Buyer beware!

Thanks Arkay,

I'm too buzy at the moment reacting to the above to do anything but...

Here,sign this consent form for this unregistered vaccine





I second Arkays request, any professionals lurking on this thread please feel free to contribute even as an AC. Any assistance with these very important matters would be greatly appreciated. If you read the whole thread, Arkay, UKAnon & myself are not looking at laying blame or making anyone feel bad for what they may know OR may have been involved in on this subject, ITS TIME FOR THE TRUTH TO COME OUT.

Ok, time is long and I should be getting good bed rest, but there seems to have been a general thrust today, probably resulting from my earlier comments regarding the "convenient" emergence of various viruses in particular regions all at once.

It appears that there might be the need for a little clarification, so I'll do my best now.

In terms of influenza viruses, we have H1N1, which is also known as swine flu.

Next we have H5N1, and also known as avian or bird flu.

After this and now making their presence felt we have H9N2 and H7N3.

Now all these viruses are flu viruses and they have nothing to do, for instance with the HFM virus and will be very unlikely never to reassort with that flu viruses, just too far apart genetically.

That would be akin to breding a mouse with a giraffe.

So, Ive been giving the explaination of all these relationships a lot of thought and I hope that this analogy might serve the purpose.

First up someone has noted that there are now 20 "clades" of H5N1 circulating,and thats probably right.

But let me try to explain.

H5N1 originates from the bird (avian) population, and all those "clades" could be called "children" from the same parents, which in effect make them all closely related but not quite the same.

Next you have H1N1, the family who have their preferred origins in the pig population, and they could be neighbours, living next door to the H5N1 virus, but they are completely different families, both flu families just like say all Australian families are, but all different, flu viruses all unrelated at this stage.

Then we go on the the two others, H9N2 and H7N3, again all Australian families all living in the same street but all different (flu) families.

So, H1N1 being a pig stored flu might come into contact (within the same pig...host) with say H9N2 or H7N3, and they recombine, ie they have their own new family, which will carry characteristics from both primary donor viruses, and we get a new strain, but it is still an flu virus.

Or we could get the same happening with H5N1 and any one of the others and then we have a marriage of a new virus that might be highly pandemic, as in the case of H1N1 which already carries a highly horizontal human to human contaigen profile.

So far, because birds are a bit more different to humans than pigs, the H5N1 avian influenza has been slow to mutate to highly infectous human contaigen, this is becaues the various elements on the surface of the virus dont really readily combine with the cells of human upper throat and lung tissues, unlike H1N1, where the mammalian pig model is closer to human characteristics.

Now because the gap between pigs, being good hosts for reassortment of more that one virus, and avian H5N1, which is of bird origin, there has fortunately been a lag in opportunities of a good host to accomodate an reassrtment of H5N1 with basically any other horizontally human to human virus, and thank god for that.

This has really been the only thing that has kept this pandemic from launching itself so far, and as one of the above mentioned researchers noted, they did indeed use a sample of( or clade of) H5N1 that was already in general distributon throughout the wild population.

So, where does all, this leave us today?

H1N1, is already highly horizontally human to human transmissible and could combine with, H5N1 or H9N2 or H7N3 and could become a new pandemic threat with the slight genitic changes that would "hide" it from previously exposed and their immune systems of people as I think is the case we are witnessing today, therefor perhaps another pandemic of H1N1 as in 2009.

But, now with H5N1, which basically needs a suitable host to recombine within, really the best host would be human as birds simply arent the best model for human contamination without direct contact and the threat there is limited.

However, should there be another H1N1 human pandemic, then the chances of someone coming into contact with H5N1 while they are already carrying and shedding H1N1 viruses, would highly amplify the chances of H5N1 having the perfect opportunithy to recombime in a human host and immediateley become a pandemic virus, with in all probability its 60% mortality rate.

Now that was long and I did make a few assumptions within that explaination, so if anyone wants to question any of it, pleasse do.

I pretty well have a bit of an understanding of this aspect but it is still a challenging topic to get your heads around, I only hope that my "family" analogy goes some way to explaining the differences between varying types of viruses and there are thousands of them, most completely harmless to humans, but those that are we do need to understand how and why, then we can take the fight right up to them, which fortunately our wonderful researchers working so quietly and invisibly are doing on a daily basis to come up with stratagories to fight these deadly threats to mankind.

If I could ever make a suggestion of where people should leave some of their accumulated wealth after they have finished with it, there is your answer, your kids will have the benefit of that selfless gift.

I said that I should be getting some good bed rest!

You can ask these questions tomorrow, I just knew that when I published that reciepie for our fluvex that youd be right on to it, but I assumed that youd be asleep be now, had I known you were still on here I would have refrained until tomorrow.

MzTreeChich, from what Ive been told on this one it will keep you very busy for some time, so give yourself a break PLEASE, youve got heaps of time to work through it all and I was hoping that it would be you to pick this baby up, but you didnt have to do it immediately.

You are absolutely amazing, but possibly in need of some discipline too!

So, on that note, if I can be so blod...


GO TO BED AND GET SOME REST....youll do better work when you are well rested...ok?

Hi Arkay,

Really well done with the family anology, however it all seems a bit far-fetched for this to happen 'naturally' and for mutations to join with others and to species jump and become a viable virus that can take hold and then spread.


Now go to bed and get some rest, I too have had a bad day health wise, now take some VitC or Echinacea and REST, looks like things are going faster everyday.

hehehe guess great minds think alike.

Ahhh, you amuse me, but thanks for the thoughts .

You might now like to take your own advice...


Touche'...hehhe

Rough night last night and a bad day, not looking forward to repeating it again tonight. I know I am delaying the enviable by staying up but ... well...

I think that this is why this thread is experiencing such an increase in views...something IS happening, and in my humble opinion it jus doesent fit into the "natural" picture, it looks more "managed", but hey more tomorrow...GO TO BED..

did yo not have parents who told you when was the right time to be up and not?

Im just drinkng...medicating myself with rum...then I'll get my sleep.!!!

hehe

Insolence...gets you no where with an ex nurse...you should know that!

And I'm a tough, determined aussie chick who just ate lamingtons with a glass of milk.

Any bets on who's going to win this one??



Last Edited by MzTreeChick on 07/06/2012 10:34 AM

guess I won THAT round!

But I also clearly understand that winning a simple round with a tough woman can be deadly, so now its me that has to be careful..

I do like a bit of levity from time toi time on this thread, its a hard one to work with and far too easy to get entangled in its seriousness.

At the end of the day we are all humans and no matter what is going on in our lives we need balance, so these exchanges though they might appear to be inappropriate, are probably signs of very balanced individuals, and that a very welcome aspect here.

so...

cheers

arkay

I love lamingtons...you didnt offer...maybe some other time...Ill just stick with my liquid medication for now...thanks

Last Edited by arkay on 07/06/2012 10:41 AM

Any bets on who's going to win this one??


sure...you of course, Im a meerley, house trained and the whole ten yards, I could never compete with you...but I can dream a little cant I?

and you could be just a little kind on a poor/ compassionate old fart!

hehehe

Last Edited by arkay on 07/06/2012 10:46 AM

As your old and a man, I'll give you this one hehehe

Night Arkay, now finish your medicine and get some rest.

OH YES Sadly too aware, hope you have a good day mztreechick stay safe

[link to translate.google.co.uk]


worried this will not post so here goes cleves
A young man 27 years died in holy house london on friday 6 july 2012
ah1n1
three others deaths are being looked into
17 regional health centre in the city
thursday man aged 44 died at evangelical hospital after a resident tam an a 80 years died at hospital in south zone

cases so far indicated 4 weds 29 confirmed
138 suspected 104 dropped 5 awaiting results

this iOS the site just will not allow copy option
saude investiga tres mortis por supeita de gripe