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two witnesses of revelations

 
paul
User ID: 10435696
United Kingdom
02/09/2012 11:49 AM
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Re: two witnesses of revelations
I know I am posting a lot tonight, but i have been searching any forums that are talking about this topic just to see what people are thinking on these two. I read a lot of people saying that they propose that these two witnesses God speaks of will be so knowledgeable and wise and have many answers to many questions for everyone. I have heard everyone say that when these two will appear they will be two men in obvious classic prophet like attire and demeanor. Like we are all gonna know exactly who they are.I just wonder some things. I know that scripture gives us a pretty clear picture of how they will be and what they will do. But does it truly give us a clear picture of anything else about them?? Maybe we are very, very sidetracked with all the things we think we will know about them. I know one thing, they will Love Jesus the Messiah of all mankind and serve Him with everything they are. And they will do anything they can do to get anyone saved by Jesus of Nazareth the true and only Son of God that they can. And they will fight the forces of darkness and destruction with everything that is in them. Thats amazing isnt it?? What if they are not what we expect?? What if they are actually just as scared alone and afraid as many of you. What if they dont know exactly what it is they are being told to do yet because they have only gotten peices of the revelation and they have to figure out a lot of it alone, but they are trying so hard to hear the rest of what God (that speaks so gently but yet as strong as an ocean) has to say to them. What if they are begging and pleading with God constantly to reveal what it is He truly wants them to do and not just in pieces and sections at a time. What if they are praying and asking Him to confirm what it is that He has asked them to do? What if they cry at night all alone because they alone know what God has revealed and they feel so alone and unsure of what He has asked because it is soooo presumptuos to assume and imagine that they dont dare ask anyone about it but they want to with all they have in them. maybe they are two regular people who love Jesus sooo much that they will do anything He asks them to do!! REgardless!!.Maybe its not the joyride many would think it would be. Maybe it would be hard. Sooo hard and lonely and heartbreaking and greivous and confusing.What if they are alone and scared and confused, being tormented with exuastion , and confused, but willing. Still very very willing!! WE definately need to pray for these two for sure thats all i know , that is if we are to assume they were two very unsure but very willing individuals!!Lets pray that whoever they are they will find Gods will and His will will be done in their lives. In case thay are two people trying to find Gods will for them. You never know. I know that many will disagree with this perhaps.Perhaps it is a waiting game for them as well just like you. Not sure but hope someone will tell me what they think of this possibility. Just wondering if anyone else out there wonders these things. Thank you!!!! A friend
 Quoting: mombis 10385154


Good point,how do The Two feel,
.
.
i know they wouldn`t be able to talk about it before the 1,260 days started
.
.
lets just say "those that talk about it,don`t know
.
.
and those that do know,DON`T talk about it
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/09/2012 12:14 PM
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Re: two witnesses of revelations
"I was told "The day of the great gathering has arrived!"

This one tells me that voice you hear is either Satan , one of his minions , or your own prideful imagination !!! And I am almost positive it is the latter .

The Great Gathering does not happen until the very end , therefore you have contradicted the Word of God . Ponder this one , you and all the other narcissist wanna-Be's .

Deu 18:20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 10448882





AMEN
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 10106685

Why would this automatically lead you to believe that this voice is not God, Doesnt the word say he will gather His people from the four corners of the Earth from where He had scattered them!!
Gatherings are taking place.Sides are being taken before our very eyes.Good and evil. God is preparing His army just as the enemy is.I believe we will see these sides become more and more prominant and dedicated to their mission and belief and the more the other side becomes stronger the more each side will feel the need to express their opinion and dedication to their God.Jesus will be the One who Reigns in the end!! as time passes as the world becomes more compromising and sinful and lustful Gods people will feel the imminent need to draw closer and become more passionate in their walk.( without compromise) I beleive that God will and is calling His people closer to Himself. I do believe God to be preparing His people and placing a fire in their hearts like never before seen in His people. L believe God to be acting in a mighty way amongst His people Whom He loves.I beleive tyou will begin to see more and more of Gods people becoming empowered and strengthened in Him. And can you tell mehow exactly did i contradict the Word. And why do we believe that God would not choose a woman?? i am not judging or saying you are wrong but You just didnt explain that comment. Please clarify so i have a clear understanding of your opinions and standpoint. Thank you.by the way This woerd was given to me before all of the gatherings in all the nations that we now witness occuring.Great only means large. There were other phrases that came that have come to pass in addition regarding these same topics. Do we really believe that God wouldnt reveal such a large global occorence that has such a relevant impact on mankind. Do we only think God will reveal the pleasane and beautiful things?? Will He only tell us the wonderful things He will do?? No. They are not alwlays pleasant and fluffy and comforting. He tells me the TRUTH of what is going to occur. Some beautiful, some not..Regardless of how it makes me feel. Im just told. I beleive He tells me these things so that I will be aware that it is more than just another occurance in history. There is something different this time.Now i am not claiming to be anyone or anything other than who i have always been. I havent asked for this calling, It has only been placed on me. Just trying to figure out what it is.Thats all.THank you for all of your input.Even if someone was wrong, do we think that the best thing for that perason and soul would be to push them further away from Gods people by being rude. I rallly dont think so right?? Please pray before responding to my posts. I would appreciate it.THank you.
Anonymous Coward
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Canada
02/09/2012 12:18 PM
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Re: two witnesses of revelations
I was wondering does anyone think that the two witnesses could be women?? The word of God never actually says "MEN"" i dont think. IT says two annointed ones, they, these two, or these, prophets, it never actually says men. Dos it?? If it does somewhere please tell me.

 Quoting: mombis 10385154


For consideration

Matthew 18:16 (King James Version)

16 "But if he will not hear thee,
then take with thee one or two more,
that in the mouth of two or three witnesses
every word may be established".


John 8:16-17 (King James Version)

16 "And yet if I judge, my judgment is true:
for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.


17 It is also written in your law,
that the testimony of two men is true".


- The Lord Jesus

God Bless His Word
Anonymous Coward
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02/09/2012 12:19 PM
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Re: two witnesses of revelations
Does anyone know if the Bible actually says MEN. My sister and I have established as far as our knowledge and readings it hasnt said MEN anywhere. Ive heard some say that God wouldnt use women because His word states that women shouldnt teach men. what do u think about this?? its an interesting point right?? But not sure of the biblical scripture on it. Just curious.. Thanks for replies.
 Quoting: mombis 10385154


Gal 3:28 There is neither jewish nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/09/2012 12:24 PM
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Re: two witnesses of revelations
thank you Paul for your response. I dont talk about it. Thats the hardest part. Its been about 5 years now. thats a pretty quiet tongue, dont you think.THis forum is different. it is a way to ask questions and get a majority opinion on an issue that you open to discuss publicly yet. i have gotten many responses and they are all very well respected and considered and greatly appreciated whether they are hurtful or not. I thank you all for your help and advice and knowledge.please anyone who has an opinion pleas share. If anyone gats a word or revelation that they honestly feel is for me can you please let me know. I mean really. I dont know my role in this thing or how its relevant to today, but it just happened that all, thought i would share in aes its important.just obeyin God, or trying to ya know!!!
Anonymous Coward
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02/09/2012 12:25 PM
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Re: two witnesses of revelations
god created man

god created woman from man

god uses man for majority of tasks

god told women to keep silent and cover their heads

why would he change his modus operandi now?
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 10385154
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02/09/2012 12:25 PM
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Re: two witnesses of revelations
I was wondering does anyone think that the two witnesses could be women?? The word of God never actually says "MEN"" i dont think. IT says two annointed ones, they, these two, or these, prophets, it never actually says men. Dos it?? If it does somewhere please tell me.

 Quoting: mombis 10385154


For consideration

Matthew 18:16 (King James Version)

16 "But if he will not hear thee,
then take with thee one or two more,
that in the mouth of two or three witnesses
every word may be established".


John 8:16-17 (King James Version)

16 "And yet if I judge, my judgment is true:
for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.


17 It is also written in your law,
that the testimony of two men is true".


- The Lord Jesus

God Bless His Word
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 311438


we should actually consider that in the Bible the term men is used when refering to all man,. (including women) Are you saying that women are not a part of mankind, silly
the white rose

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02/09/2012 01:07 PM
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Re: two witnesses of revelations
WHO IS JESUS
To All,The one known as Jesus was and is the person manifest in the density of matter of our local universe paradise Creator Son "MICHAEL of NEBADON" in His seventh and final bestowal experiencing His created sons existences.1. Michael of Nebadon

(366.2) 33:1.1 Our Creator Son is the personification of the 611,121st original concept of infinite identity of simultaneous origin in the Universal Father and the Eternal Son. The Michael of Nebadon is the “only-begotten Son” personalizing this 611,121st universal concept of divinity and infinity. His headquarters is in the threefold mansion of light on Salvington. And this dwelling is so ordered because Michael has experienced the living of all three phases of intelligent creature existence: spiritual, morontial, and material. Because of the name associated with his seventh and final bestowal on Urantia, he is sometimes spoken of as Christ Michael.

(366.3) 33:1.2 Our Creator Son is not the Eternal Son, the existential Paradise associate of the Universal Father and the Infinite Spirit. Michael of Nebadon is not a member of the Paradise Trinity. Nevertheless our Master Son possesses in his realm all of the divine attributes and powers that the Eternal Son himself would manifest were he actually to be present on Salvington and functioning in Nebadon. Michael possesses even additional power and authority, for he not only personifies the Eternal Son but also fully represents and actually embodies the personality presence of the Universal Father to and in this local universe. He even represents the Father-Son. These relationships constitute a Creator Son the most powerful, versatile, and influential of all divine beings who are capable of direct administration of evolutionary universes and of personality contact with immature creature beings.

(366.4) 33:1.3 Our Creator Son exerts the same spiritual drawing power, spirit gravity, from the headquarters of the local universe that the Eternal Son of Paradise would exert if he were personally present on Salvington, and more; this Universe Son is also the personification of the Universal Father to the universe of Nebadon. Creator Sons are personality centers for the spiritual forces of the Paradise Father-Son. Creator Sons are the final power-personality focalizations of the mighty time-space attributes of God the Sevenfold.

(367.1) 33:1.4 The Creator Son is the vicegerent personalization of the Universal Father, the divinity co-ordinate of the Eternal Son, and the creative associate of the Infinite Spirit. To our universe and all its inhabited worlds the Sovereign Son is, to all practical intents and purposes, God. He personifies all of the Paradise Deities which evolving mortals can discerningly comprehend. This Son and his Spirit associate are your creator parents. To you, Michael, the Creator Son, is the supreme personality; to you, the Eternal Son is supersupreme — an infinite Deity personality.(367.2) 33:1.5 In the person of the Creator Son we have a ruler and divine parent who is just as mighty, efficient, and beneficent as would be the Universal Father and the Eternal Son if both were present on Salvington and engaged in the administration of the affairs of the universe of Nebadon.
The true evidences of the resurrection of Michael are spiritual in nature, albeit this teaching is corroborated by the testimony of many mortals of the realm who met, recognized, and communed with the resurrected morontia Master. He became a part of the personal experience of almost one thousand human beings before he finally took leave of Urantia.Here the white rose
the white rose

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02/09/2012 01:12 PM
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Re: two witnesses of revelations
Jesus's real message,the body neither lives nor dies
To All, Death, what seems to be unfair is just your finite understanding of the infinite.The one known to you as Jesus told us to seek the truth and the truth will set you free,by seeking you earn salvation.Here are some truths I have found by my seeking. Will which is the ability to choose to do a thing is the most important force in the Universe of Universes.When The First Source and center,The Father,The Thought and The Second Source and center,The Son,The Word have an individual collaboration and actualization of WILL,There Freewill,a co-creative creation comes into being.Will alone creates Spirit Sons, Paradise Creator Sons of the order of Michael,our Local Universe Son is Michael of Nebadon who Incarnated as Esu Immanuel known to most as Jesus.In order allow us to use our soul/mind (HUE MAN =LIGHT MAN)being to overcome the adversary,which is our ego entity of material self-hood,and achieve a Spiritual birthing without the benefit of physical evidence.This being able to have the wholehearted faith and trust of "a little child"in your unseen Spiritual Father.Until AT ONE MENT of Will of the ascending HUE MAN the soul is a seed that needs to be planted in the soil of desire to know your Heavenly Father,when the individual's soul/mind overcomes ego of self and attains AT ONE MENT of WILL and becomes one with the indwelling Father Fragment that being realizes its IMMORTALITY.Esu Immanuel(JESUS) left nothing behind of Himself to allow us the privilege of becoming "AGONDONTERS"( ones who can attain without proof of seeing),to be an agondonter is a most cherished and wonderful achievement!Esu Immanul(JESUS)left nothing behind (no writings,no art,no relic of any kind)for another reason,He did not want there to be anything left to start a religion or cult around His Person rather than His teachings. Saul of Tarsus A.K.A. Paul a pharisee composed the new testament ( hijacking the early followers of Esu's teachings)and turned the movement right back into the blood cult of the HEBREW RABBIS using the MURDERED Esu Immanuel(JESUS)as the SACRIFICE! I do however now have proof!I know by personal experience that paragraph 4 on page 1229 of "THE URANTIA BOOK" is the absolute, undeniable TRUTH and if that is TRUTH then the whole book is the TRUTH! Here is what I experienced. On June 28,1984 while working in my small plant nursery pulling weeds,I was attacked by a swarm of very tiny mosquitoes. They were the size of gnats and did not cause itchy bites,so I kept working.Went to bed and woke up the next morning so sick I could not move I was immobilized.I did not leave my bed for seven days and nights,did not eat or drink or go to toilet.Fever so bad covers on one minute off the next for seven days.Then on July 5, 1984 a few minutes before midnight I mustered up enough strength to get to the bathroom and take my temperature.I saw myself in mirror for first time in a week.I looked like DEATH WARMED OVER!My temperature was 104.5,I looked in the mirror then I looked at the thermometer then back in the mirror and then realized I was close to death.I said to myself well I guess this is it I am heading into the UNKNOWN!I laughed at the face of death!I got back into bed and thought what if my next breath is my last.It was, I had this thought,this prayer if you will that It is my WILL that THY WILL be done MY FATHER(a positive affirmation of WILL)^This is the "AT ONE MENT OF WILL wholehearted faith and trust in the unseen,the trust of a little child. At this moment time stood still,I turned to my right and said to my wife Laurie I am dieing I love you good bye.I then turned to my left and saw my clock tick to midnight,at this moment of non-time I felt myself vacate my body,it started at the tips of my toes and whooshed up my body when it reached my heart and brain I departed through the top of my head. Now all matter has faded away and I find myself as a little tiny light all alone in the darkness until I saw coming up from my right and from what seemed to be BELOW another light and it approached me and came to my side. I looked up and I saw another light a much much more brilliant and powerful light being on the other side of the portal,I knew that was my CREATOR FATHER and as I tried to reach for His helping hand the other being of light put up this barrier between us it was everything I ever did that hurt someone my sins if you will.I looked and saw my CREATOR FATHER still reaching for me even with all the error and s.i.n.(stuck in negativity)I committed.I turned to the being who came up from below and said be gone I go with my Heavenly Father and with that the EVIL PRINCE OF DARKNESS departed back to the pit of DARKNESS he left screaming in defeat ! I then took part in a seven hour debate with my CREATOR over going directly to heaven with Him. He said what of your wife and children,I said they will be all right because they have You.He said what of your business and all your projects and art,I said they mean nothing now that I am in your presence.Then My CREATOR said because you were able to have the faith and trust of a little child and achieve AT ONE MENT OF WILL and give birth to your seed soul I want you to go back into the Firmament back to the density of matter and tell them ALL,so I had to relent.It was His plan that I come back and tell you all!I awoke with my head still looking at the clock as it turned to seven. The Creator Son,Paradise Son The MICHAEL OF NEBADON and His bestowal personification in incarnation ESU IMMANUEL are REAL and always here for all who so choose of your own FREEWILL!!!!!!!!!!!!! Fear is the opposite of Faith HAVE NO FEAR LEARN THE TRUTH BY SEEKING AND HELP YOUR FELLOWS BY PASSING IT ON FREELY [link to www.urantia.org] THE BODY NEITHER LIVES NOR DIES THE SOUL/MIND HUE MAN LIGHT MAN LIVES AND IS IMMORTAL,THE LIGHT BODY OF THE DENSITY SIMULATES LIFE!!! the white rose
the white rose

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Re: two witnesses of revelations
TO ALL, Meaning of the Death on the Cross

(2016.6) 188:4.1 Although Jesus did not die this death on the cross to atone for the racial guilt of mortal man nor to provide some sort of effective approach to an otherwise offended and unforgiving God; even though the Son of Man did not offer himself as a sacrifice to appease the wrath of God and to open the way for sinful man to obtain salvation; notwithstanding that these ideas of atonement and propitiation are erroneous, nonetheless, there are significances attached to this death of Jesus on the cross which should not be overlooked. It is a fact that Urantia has become known among other neighboring inhabited planets as the “World of the Cross.”

(2016.7) 188:4.2 Jesus desired to live a full mortal life in the flesh on Urantia. Death is, ordinarily, a part of life. Death is the last act in the mortal drama. In your well-meant efforts to escape the superstitious errors of the false interpretation of the meaning of the death on the cross, you should be careful not to make the great mistake of failing to perceive the true significance and the genuine import of the Master’s death.

(2016.8) 188:4.3 Mortal man was never the property of the archdeceivers. Jesus did not die to ransom man from the clutch of the apostate rulers and fallen princes of the spheres. The Father in heaven never conceived of such crass injustice as damning a mortal soul because of the evil-doing of his ancestors. Neither was the Master’s death on the cross a sacrifice which consisted in an effort to pay God a debt which the race of mankind had come to owe him. *

(2016.9) 188:4.4 Before Jesus lived on earth, you might possibly have been justified in believing in such a God, but not since the Master lived and died among your fellow mortals. Moses taught the dignity and justice of a Creator God; but Jesus portrayed the love and mercy of a heavenly Father.

(2016.10) 188:4.5 The animal nature — the tendency toward evil-doing — may be hereditary, but sin is not transmitted from parent to child. Sin is the act of conscious and deliberate rebellion against the Father’s will and the Sons’ laws by an individual will creature. *

(2017.1) 188:4.6 Jesus lived and died for a whole universe, not just for the races of this one world. While the mortals of the realms had salvation even before Jesus lived and died on Urantia, it is nevertheless a fact that his bestowal on this world greatly illuminated the way of salvation; his death did much to make forever plain the certainty of mortal survival after death in the flesh.

(2017.2) 188:4.7 Though it is hardly proper to speak of Jesus as a sacrificer, a ransomer, or a redeemer, it is wholly correct to refer to him as a savior. He forever made the way of salvation (survival) more clear and certain; he did better and more surely show the way of salvation for all the mortals of all the worlds of the universe of Nebadon.

(2017.3) 188:4.8 When once you grasp the idea of God as a true and loving Father, the only concept which Jesus ever taught, you must forthwith, in all consistency, utterly abandon all those primitive notions about God as an offended monarch, a stern and all-powerful ruler whose chief delight is to detect his subjects in wrongdoing and to see that they are adequately punished, unless some being almost equal to himself should volunteer to suffer for them, to die as a substitute and in their stead. The whole idea of ransom and atonement is incompatible with the concept of God as it was taught and exemplified by Jesus of Nazareth. The infinite love of God is not secondary to anything in the divine nature.

(2017.4) 188:4.9 All this concept of atonement and sacrificial salvation is rooted and grounded in selfishness. Jesus taught that service to one’s fellows is the highest concept of the brotherhood of spirit believers. Salvation should be taken for granted by those who believe in the fatherhood of God. The believer’s chief concern should not be the selfish desire for personal salvation but rather the unselfish urge to love and, therefore, serve one’s fellows even as Jesus loved and served mortal men.

(2017.5) 188:4.10 Neither do genuine believers trouble themselves so much about the future punishment of sin. The real believer is only concerned about present separation from God. True, wise fathers may chasten their sons, but they do all this in love and for corrective purposes. They do not punish in anger, neither do they chastise in retribution.

(2017.6) 188:4.11 Even if God were the stern and legal monarch of a universe in which justice ruled supreme, he certainly would not be satisfied with the childish scheme of substituting an innocent sufferer for a guilty offender.

(2017.7) 188:4.12 The great thing about the death of Jesus, as it is related to the enrichment of human experience and the enlargement of the way of salvation, is not the fact of his death but rather the superb manner and the matchless spirit in which he met death.

(2017.8) 188:4.13 This entire idea of the ransom of the atonement places salvation upon a plane of unreality; such a concept is purely philosophic. Human salvation is real; it is based on two realities which may be grasped by the creature’s faith and thereby become incorporated into individual human experience: the fact of the fatherhood of God and its correlated truth, the brotherhood of man. It is true, after all, that you are to be “forgiven your debts, even as you forgive your debtors.”

5. Lessons from the Cross

(2017.9) 188:5.1 The cross of Jesus portrays the full measure of the supreme devotion of the true shepherd for even the unworthy members of his flock. It forever places all relations between God and man upon the family basis. God is the Father; man is his son. Love, the love of a father for his son, becomes the central truth in the universe relations of Creator and creature — not the justice of a king which seeks satisfaction in the sufferings and punishment of the evil-doing subject.

(2018.1) 188:5.2 The cross forever shows that the attitude of Jesus toward sinners was neither condemnation nor condonation, but rather eternal and loving salvation. Jesus is truly a savior in the sense that his life and death do win men over to goodness and righteous survival. Jesus loves men so much that his love awakens the response of love in the human heart. Love is truly contagious and eternally creative. Jesus’ death on the cross exemplifies a love which is sufficiently strong and divine to forgive sin and swallow up all evil-doing. Jesus disclosed to this world a higher quality of righteousness than justice — mere technical right and wrong. Divine love does not merely forgive wrongs; it absorbs and actually destroys them. The forgiveness of love utterly transcends the forgiveness of mercy. Mercy sets the guilt of evil-doing to one side; but love destroys forever the sin and all weakness resulting therefrom. Jesus brought a new method of living to Urantia. He taught us not to resist evil but to find through him a goodness which effectually destroys evil. The forgiveness of Jesus is not condonation; it is salvation from condemnation. Salvation does not slight wrongs; it makes them right. True love does not compromise nor condone hate; it destroys it. The love of Jesus is never satisfied with mere forgiveness. The Master’s love implies rehabilitation, eternal survival. It is altogether proper to speak of salvation as redemption if you mean this eternal rehabilitation.

(2018.2) 188:5.3 Jesus, by the power of his personal love for men, could break the hold of sin and evil. He thereby set men free to choose better ways of living. Jesus portrayed a deliverance from the past which in itself promised a triumph for the future. Forgiveness thus provided salvation. The beauty of divine love, once fully admitted to the human heart, forever destroys the charm of sin and the power of evil.

(2018.3) 188:5.4 The sufferings of Jesus were not confined to the crucifixion. In reality, Jesus of Nazareth spent upward of twenty-five years on the cross of a real and intense mortal existence. The real value of the cross consists in the fact that it was the supreme and final expression of his love, the completed revelation of his mercy.

(2018.4) 188:5.5 On millions of inhabited worlds, tens of trillions of evolving creatures who may have been tempted to give up the moral struggle and abandon the good fight of faith, have taken one more look at Jesus on the cross and then have forged on ahead, inspired by the sight of God’s laying down his incarnate life in devotion to the unselfish service of man.

(2018.5) 188:5.6 The triumph of the death on the cross is all summed up in the spirit of Jesus’ attitude toward those who assailed him. He made the cross an eternal symbol of the triumph of love over hate and the victory of truth over evil when he prayed, “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.” That devotion of love was contagious throughout a vast universe; the disciples caught it from their Master. The very first teacher of his gospel who was called upon to lay down his life in this service, said, as they stoned him to death, “Lay not this sin to their charge.”

(2018.6) 188:5.7 The cross makes a supreme appeal to the best in man because it discloses one who was willing to lay down his life in the service of his fellow men. Greater love no man can have than this: that he would be willing to lay down his life for his friends — and Jesus had such a love that he was willing to lay down his life for his enemies, a love greater than any which had hitherto been known on earth.

(2019.1) 188:5.8 On other worlds, as well as on Urantia, this sublime spectacle of the death of the human Jesus on the cross of Golgotha has stirred the emotions of mortals, while it has aroused the highest devotion of the angels.

(2019.2) 188:5.9 The cross is that high symbol of sacred service, the devotion of one’s life to the welfare and salvation of one’s fellows. The cross is not the symbol of the sacrifice of the innocent Son of God in the place of guilty sinners and in order to appease the wrath of an offended God, but it does stand forever, on earth and throughout a vast universe, as a sacred symbol of the good bestowing themselves upon the evil and thereby saving them by this very devotion of love. The cross does stand as the token of the highest form of unselfish service, the supreme devotion of the full bestowal of a righteous life in the service of wholehearted ministry, even in death, the death of the cross. And the very sight of this great symbol of the bestowal life of Jesus truly inspires all of us to want to go and do likewise.

(2019.3) 188:5.10 When thinking men and women look upon Jesus as he offers up his life on the cross, they will hardly again permit themselves to complain at even the severest hardships of life, much less at petty harassments and their many purely fictitious grievances. His life was so glorious and his death so triumphant that we are all enticed to a willingness to share both. There is true drawing power in the whole bestowal of Michael, from the days of his youth to this overwhelming spectacle of his death on the cross.

(2019.4) 188:5.11 Make sure, then, that when you view the cross as a revelation of God, you do not look with the eyes of the primitive man nor with the viewpoint of the later barbarian, both of whom regarded God as a relentless Sovereign of stern justice and rigid law-enforcement. Rather, make sure that you see in the cross the final manifestation of the love and devotion of Jesus to his life mission of bestowal upon the mortal races of his vast universe. See in the death of the Son of Man the climax of the unfolding of the Father’s divine love for his sons of the mortal spheres. The cross thus portrays the devotion of willing affection and the bestowal of voluntary salvation upon those who are willing to receive such gifts and devotion. There was nothing in the cross which the Father required — only that which Jesus so willingly gave, and which he refused to avoid.

(2019.5) 188:5.12 If man cannot otherwise appreciate Jesus and understand the meaning of his bestowal on earth, he can at least comprehend the fellowship of his mortal sufferings. No man can ever fear that the Creator does not know the nature or extent of his temporal afflictions.

(2019.6) 188:5.13 We know that the death on the cross was not to effect man’s reconciliation to God but to stimulate man’s realization of the Father’s eternal love and his Son’s unending mercy, and to broadcast these universal truths to a whole universe. [link to www.urantia.org] the white rose
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Re: two witnesses of revelations
TO ALL, Personality Survival


(1225.1) 112:0.1 THE evolutionary planets are the spheres of human origin, the initial worlds of the ascending mortal career. Urantia is your starting point; here you and your divine Thought Adjuster are joined in temporary union. You have been endowed with a perfect guide; therefore, if you will sincerely run the race of time and gain the final goal of faith, the reward of the ages shall be yours; you will be eternally united with your indwelling Adjuster. Then will begin your real life, the ascending life, to which your present mortal state is but the vestibule. Then will begin your exalted and progressive mission as finaliters in the eternity which stretches out before you. And throughout all of these successive ages and stages of evolutionary growth, there is one part of you that remains absolutely unaltered, and that is personality — permanence in the presence of change.
The material self, the ego-entity of human identity, is dependent during the physical life on the continuing function of the material life vehicle, on the continued existence of the unbalanced equilibrium of energies and intellect which, on Urantia, has been given the name life. But selfhood of survival value, selfhood that can transcend the experience of death, is only evolved by establishing a potential transfer of the seat of the identity of the evolving personality from the transient life vehicle — the material body — to the more enduring and immortal nature of the morontia soul and on beyond to those levels whereon the soul becomes infused with, and eventually attains the status of, spirit reality. This actual transfer from material association to morontia identification is effected by the sincerity, persistence, and steadfastness of the God-seeking decisions of the human creature.
The Phenomenon of Death

(1229.8) 112:3.1 Urantians generally recognize only one kind of death, the physical cessation of life energies; but concerning personality survival there are really three kinds:

(1229.9) 112:3.2 1. Spiritual (soul) death. If and when mortal man has finally rejected survival, when he has been pronounced spiritually insolvent, morontially bankrupt, in the conjoint opinion of the Adjuster and the surviving seraphim, when such co-ordinate advice has been recorded on Uversa, and after the Censors and their reflective associates have verified these findings, thereupon do the rulers of Orvonton order the immediate release of the indwelling Monitor. But this release of the Adjuster in no way affects the duties of the personal or group seraphim concerned with that Adjuster-abandoned individual. This kind of death is final in its significance irrespective of the temporary continuation of the living energies of the physical and mind mechanisms. From the cosmic standpoint the mortal is already dead; the continuing life merely indicates the persistence of the material momentum of cosmic energies.

(1230.1) 112:3.3 2. Intellectual (mind) death. When the vital circuits of higher adjutant ministry are disrupted through the aberrations of intellect or because of the partial destruction of the mechanism of the brain, and if these conditions pass a certain critical point of irreparability, the indwelling Adjuster is immediately released to depart for Divinington. On the universe records a mortal personality is considered to have met with death whenever the essential mind circuits of human will-action have been destroyed. And again, this is death, irrespective of the continuing function of the living mechanism of the physical body. The body minus the volitional mind is no longer human, but according to the prior choosing of the human will, the soul of such an individual may survive.

(1230.2) 112:3.4 3. Physical (body and mind) death. When death overtakes a human being, the Adjuster remains in the citadel of the mind until it ceases to function as an intelligent mechanism, about the time that the measurable brain energies cease their rhythmic vital pulsations. Following this dissolution the Adjuster takes leave of the vanishing mind, just as unceremoniously as entry was made years before, and proceeds to Divinington by way of Uversa.

(1230.3) 112:3.5 After death the material body returns to the elemental world from which it was derived, but two nonmaterial factors of surviving personality persist: The pre-existent Thought Adjuster, with the memory transcription of the mortal career, proceeds to Divinington; and there also remains, in the custody of the destiny guardian, the immortal morontia soul of the deceased human. These phases and forms of soul, these once kinetic but now static formulas of identity, are essential to repersonalization on the morontia worlds; and it is the reunion of the Adjuster and the soul that reassembles the surviving personality, that reconsciousizes you at the time of the morontia awakening.

(1230.4) 112:3.6 For those who do not have personal seraphic guardians, the group custodians faithfully and efficiently perform the same service of identity safekeeping and personality resurrection. The seraphim are indispensable to the reassembly of personality.

(1230.5) 112:3.7 Upon death the Thought Adjuster temporarily loses personality, but not identity; the human subject temporarily loses identity, but not personality; on the mansion worlds both reunite in eternal manifestation. Never does a departed Thought Adjuster return to earth as the being of former indwelling; never is personality manifested without the human will; and never does a dis-Adjustered human being after death manifest active identity or in any manner establish communication with the living beings of earth. Such dis-Adjustered souls are wholly and absolutely unconscious during the long or short sleep of death. There can be no exhibition of any sort of personality or ability to engage in communications with other personalities until after completion of survival. Those who go to the mansion worlds are not permitted to send messages back to their loved ones. It is the policy throughout the universes to forbid such communication during the period of a current dispensation. [link to www.urantia.org] the white rose
Missioninvisible

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02/09/2012 01:22 PM
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Re: two witnesses of revelations
But seriously, IMHO, the two witnesses will surely know their identity and their mission. God will make it plain to them when they receive their mission and power and authority.


 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1194370





It seems that we may have had this discussion in the past.

(Hard to keep track:)

-->

John the Baptist surely seemed to know his 'mission',

But he didn't seem to know his 'identity'...

John 1:21
And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No.




)(
 Quoting: Daniel's Seventieth Seven 1071051


"He" didn't know it till the time was right ... ;)
"So you're made of detritus [from exploded stars]. Get over it. Or better yet...Celebrate it. After all, what nobler thought can one cherish than that the universe lives within us all?"

Neil deGrasse Tyson



"We were told that the changes in our world would become the catalyst for ones within us..."
Fractal Time, Gregg Braden
Daniel's Seventieth Seven
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02/09/2012 01:24 PM
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Re: two witnesses of revelations
But seriously, IMHO, the two witnesses will surely know their identity and their mission. God will make it plain to them when they receive their mission and power and authority.


 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1194370





It seems that we may have had this discussion in the past.

(Hard to keep track:)

-->

John the Baptist surely seemed to know his 'mission',

But he didn't seem to know his 'identity'...

John 1:21
And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No.



 Quoting: Daniel's Seventieth Seven 1071051


"He" didn't know it till the time was right ... ;)
 Quoting: Missioninvisible



Just after he was beheaded?




:)
Anonymous Coward
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02/09/2012 01:28 PM
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Re: two witnesses of revelations
I was wondering does anyone think that the two witnesses could be women?? The word of God never actually says "MEN"" i dont think. IT says two annointed ones, they, these two, or these, prophets, it never actually says men. Dos it?? If it does somewhere please tell me.
 Quoting: mombis 10385154


The Two Witnesses are the Northern Kingdom of ancient Israel and the Southern Kingdom of Yudah. They were "killed" some time ago actually.

Now they are being revived or: "resurrected" from their graves (valley of dry bones).

A certain number from their nation have been selected to rule in Heaven as high-level Stars (Angels) and will be amongst the Heavenly Army that will be allowed to carry out vengeance on the Rebel Army of Satans that are responsible for Man's fall.

You're seeing the results of that struggle now, on earth. The so-called New World Order is an expression of resistance. So don't try and fight the NWO because you can't.
Missioninvisible

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02/09/2012 01:37 PM
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Re: two witnesses of revelations
But seriously, IMHO, the two witnesses will surely know their identity and their mission. God will make it plain to them when they receive their mission and power and authority.


 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1194370





It seems that we may have had this discussion in the past.

(Hard to keep track:)

-->

John the Baptist surely seemed to know his 'mission',

But he didn't seem to know his 'identity'...

John 1:21
And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No.



 Quoting: Daniel's Seventieth Seven 1071051


"He" didn't know it till the time was right ... ;)
 Quoting: Missioninvisible



Just after he was beheaded?




:)
 Quoting: Daniel's Seventieth Seven 1071051



nope as an adult today...always knowing he/she was different. The spirit of John reincarnated. Go ahead and get upset because I believe in reincarnation but didn't Jesus say in
Matthew 23:34
New Living Translation (©2007)
I tell you the truth, this generation will not pass from the scene until all these things take place. (speaking of the Son of Man revealing himself)

so either
1) Jesus was lying (which I highly doubt)
2) John and some of the disciples present at the time would reincarnate at the Revelations...they probably had feelings more of their life (in today's world) that they were different and set apart...its not till they were mature enough and their DNA was active enough to help reveal to them that they were souls present at that time). Our DNA holes memories...the "junk" DNA (we only currently use 10% of it, will be activated as these energies increase from cycles ending/beginning...have you ever read articles about people who get organ transplants that all of the sudden have a new taste in food or develop new interests that they have never had in the past? and then they find out the organ of the person they received could be the culprit (after talking to family members of the deceased)
"So you're made of detritus [from exploded stars]. Get over it. Or better yet...Celebrate it. After all, what nobler thought can one cherish than that the universe lives within us all?"

Neil deGrasse Tyson



"We were told that the changes in our world would become the catalyst for ones within us..."
Fractal Time, Gregg Braden
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/09/2012 01:37 PM
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Re: two witnesses of revelations

But seriously, IMHO, the two witnesses will surely know their identity and their mission. God will make it plain to them when they receive their mission and power and authority.


 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1194370





It seems that we may have had this discussion in the past.

(Hard to keep track:)

-->

John the Baptist surely seemed to know his 'mission',

But he didn't seem to know his 'identity'...

John 1:21
And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No.




)(
 Quoting: Daniel's Seventieth Seven 1071051


"He" didn't know it till the time was right ... ;)
[/quote

precisely!!
Missioninvisible

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02/09/2012 01:40 PM
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Re: two witnesses of revelations
...





It seems that we may have had this discussion in the past.

(Hard to keep track:)

-->

John the Baptist surely seemed to know his 'mission',

But he didn't seem to know his 'identity'...

John 1:21
And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No.



 Quoting: Daniel's Seventieth Seven 1071051


"He" didn't know it till the time was right ... ;)
 Quoting: Missioninvisible



Just after he was beheaded?




:)
 Quoting: Daniel's Seventieth Seven 1071051



nope as an adult today...always knowing he/she was different. The spirit of John reincarnated. Go ahead and get upset because I believe in reincarnation but didn't Jesus say in
Matthew 23:34
New Living Translation (©2007)
I tell you the truth, this generation will not pass from the scene until all these things take place. (speaking of the Son of Man revealing himself)

so either
1) Jesus was lying (which I highly doubt)
2) John and some of the disciples present at the time would reincarnate at the Revelations...they probably had feelings more of their life (in today's world) that they were different and set apart...its not till they were mature enough and their DNA was active enough to help reveal to them that they were souls present at that time). Our DNA holes memories...the "junk" DNA (we only currently use 10% of it, will be activated as these energies increase from cycles ending/beginning...have you ever read articles about people who get organ transplants that all of the sudden have a new taste in food or develop new interests that they have never had in the past? and then they find out the organ of the person they received could be the culprit (after talking to family members of the deceased)
 Quoting: Missioninvisible


To elaborate on DNA and "stored" memories... Thread: DNA change and a new way of life for all...do we really know what we are capable of?
"So you're made of detritus [from exploded stars]. Get over it. Or better yet...Celebrate it. After all, what nobler thought can one cherish than that the universe lives within us all?"

Neil deGrasse Tyson



"We were told that the changes in our world would become the catalyst for ones within us..."
Fractal Time, Gregg Braden
Daniel's Seventieth Seven
User ID: 1071051
United States
02/09/2012 01:50 PM
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Re: two witnesses of revelations
...





It seems that we may have had this discussion in the past.

(Hard to keep track:)

-->

John the Baptist surely seemed to know his 'mission',

But he didn't seem to know his 'identity'...

John 1:21
And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No.



 Quoting: Daniel's Seventieth Seven 1071051


"He" didn't know it till the time was right ... ;)
 Quoting: Missioninvisible



Just after he was beheaded?




:)
 Quoting: Daniel's Seventieth Seven 1071051



nope as an adult today...always knowing he/she was different. The spirit of John reincarnated. Go ahead and get upset because I believe in reincarnation
 Quoting: Missioninvisible



There is nothing upsetting about what you wrote.

But why do you assume that He/John would know who he is today

if

He didn't know who He/Elias was then?



?
Missioninvisible

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02/09/2012 01:55 PM
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Re: two witnesses of revelations
...


"He" didn't know it till the time was right ... ;)
 Quoting: Missioninvisible



Just after he was beheaded?




:)
 Quoting: Daniel's Seventieth Seven 1071051



nope as an adult today...always knowing he/she was different. The spirit of John reincarnated. Go ahead and get upset because I believe in reincarnation
 Quoting: Missioninvisible



There is nothing upsetting about what you wrote.

But why do you assume that He/John would know who he is today

if

He didn't know who He/Elias was then?



?
 Quoting: Daniel's Seventieth Seven 1071051


Idk I am really big into the research on DNA and memories. Maybe it wasn't the right time for him to know...maybe it will be in the end when all of the past souls reincarnate (DNA recall) that He will know? So at the time of when they asked, he was unaware of who else he might have been. We all have tendencies to gravitate toward various tasks, books of the Bible, Names, etc. Sometimes these can be clues as to what we might have been/done in the past. Its not like someone comes and knocks on your door and tells you who you were...its just an innate feeling/knowing that you were set apart during that particular time/place. Many people nowadays are starting to feel different and are searching for their true calling/identity...the longing to go home :)
"So you're made of detritus [from exploded stars]. Get over it. Or better yet...Celebrate it. After all, what nobler thought can one cherish than that the universe lives within us all?"

Neil deGrasse Tyson



"We were told that the changes in our world would become the catalyst for ones within us..."
Fractal Time, Gregg Braden
777
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02/09/2012 02:02 PM
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Re: two witnesses of revelations
There is a God in heaven that is alive and well today. He has sent his two prophets/witnesses just as he said he would and they are a team of WIFE AND HUSBAND he is the spokesmen of the two. Gods church is still on earth as promised (not even the gates of hell will prevail over it) and the head of that church is Jesus Christ. Jesus in turn speaks what God gives him to Gods servant,(witness, prophet,pastor)on earth and then Gods pastor(chosen by god to do the work,as he chose Moses,David ect..) gives it to body of Christ( the church). God has opened up the books as promised and you can freely answer all your questions if you are willing to dig and humble yourself and be honest with yourself. Or you can be like everyone else and dismiss it as TRUTH and continue to live as you always have, or mock and make fun like is always done concerning God and the truth. It's all your choice. but you asked and here is your chance to get a head start before things start to get very terrifying on this earth.

read this book for TRUTH:

[link to www.the-end.com]
Anonymous Coward
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02/09/2012 02:10 PM
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Re: two witnesses of revelations
The Two Witnesses are the Northern Kingdom of ancient Israel and the Southern Kingdom of Yudah. They were "killed" some time ago actually.

They became divided into TWO. Always remember that The Creator only selects his prophets from the nation of those who belong to ancient Israel, no one else. So the Two Witnesses is the divided Kingdom itself, a Kingdom that was "killed" and removed from power some time ago.

The prophecies in the Hebraic writings have absolutely NOTHING to do with christians or any other religion or its followers.

The nation of Ancient Israel (the TWO divided kingdoms of Israel and Yudah) are being revived or: "resurrected" from their graves (valley of dry bones).

A certain number from their nation have been selected to rule in Heaven as high-level Stars (Angels) and will be amongst the Heavenly Army that will be allowed to carry out vengeance on the Rebel Army of Satans that are responsible for Man's fall.

You're seeing the results of that struggle now, on earth. The so-called New World Order is an expression of resistance. So don't try and fight the NWO because you can't.

Our struggle is with the INVISIBLE wicked spirit forces that oppose the descendants of Adam.
Daniel's Seventieth Seven
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02/09/2012 02:15 PM
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Re: two witnesses of revelations
...



Just after he was beheaded?



 Quoting: Daniel's Seventieth Seven 1071051



nope as an adult today...always knowing he/she was different. The spirit of John reincarnated. Go ahead and get upset because I believe in reincarnation
 Quoting: Missioninvisible



There is nothing upsetting about what you wrote.

But why do you assume that He/John would know who he is today

if

He didn't know who He/Elias was then?


 Quoting: Daniel's Seventieth Seven 1071051


Idk...
 Quoting: Missioninvisible



Fair enough.

It would be hard for any of us to know for sure.


:)
Missioninvisible

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02/09/2012 02:22 PM
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Re: two witnesses of revelations
...



nope as an adult today...always knowing he/she was different. The spirit of John reincarnated. Go ahead and get upset because I believe in reincarnation
 Quoting: Missioninvisible



There is nothing upsetting about what you wrote.

But why do you assume that He/John would know who he is today

if

He didn't know who He/Elias was then?


 Quoting: Daniel's Seventieth Seven 1071051


Idk...
 Quoting: Missioninvisible



Fair enough.

It would be hard for any of us to know for sure.


:)
 Quoting: Daniel's Seventieth Seven 1071051



just a hunch...I'm sure he knows his "mission" now tho with all that is happening around us...
"So you're made of detritus [from exploded stars]. Get over it. Or better yet...Celebrate it. After all, what nobler thought can one cherish than that the universe lives within us all?"

Neil deGrasse Tyson



"We were told that the changes in our world would become the catalyst for ones within us..."
Fractal Time, Gregg Braden
Anonymous Coward
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02/09/2012 02:23 PM
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Re: two witnesses of revelations
But seriously, IMHO, the two witnesses will surely know their identity and their mission. God will make it plain to them when they receive their mission and power and authority.


 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1194370





It seems that we may have had this discussion in the past.

(Hard to keep track:)

-->

John the Baptist surely seemed to know his 'mission',

But he didn't seem to know his 'identity'...

John 1:21
And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No.




)(
 Quoting: Daniel's Seventieth Seven 1071051


Hi DSS,

Just catching up on the thread. I cannot recall if we have. :)

Perhaps I was unclear in this instance. I was moreso referring to a confidence and sense of ones self and the distinctiveness and uniqueness of character (as related to their mission).

Hopefully that clarifies my intent.

peace,
MOMBIS (OP)
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02/09/2012 02:32 PM
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Re: two witnesses of revelations
"SET APART" MORE WORDS I KEPT GETTING!!!i WAS TOLD "SET APART"
FUNNY!!

BY THE WAY PERHAPS I HAVE GOTTEN PROPHECIES REGARDING THE TWO.( NOT ACTUALLY REFERRING TO ME AT ALL)]
THIS I HAVE CONSIDERED.
Daniel's Seventieth Seven
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02/09/2012 02:42 PM
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Re: two witnesses of revelations
But seriously, IMHO, the two witnesses will surely know their identity and their mission. God will make it plain to them when they receive their mission and power and authority.


 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1194370





It seems that we may have had this discussion in the past.

(Hard to keep track:)

-->

John the Baptist surely seemed to know his 'mission',

But he didn't seem to know his 'identity'...

John 1:21
And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No.



 Quoting: Daniel's Seventieth Seven 1071051


Hi DSS,

Just catching up on the thread. I cannot recall if we have. :)

Perhaps I was unclear in this instance. I was moreso referring to a confidence and sense of ones self and the distinctiveness and uniqueness of character (as related to their mission).

Hopefully that clarifies my intent.

peace,
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1194370



Yep- Thanks Jay!




][
MrCharlest
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02/09/2012 02:47 PM
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Re: two witnesses of revelations
I tend to think the two witnesses are Elijah and Enoch, because it is appointed unto men once to die and than the judgement. Neither one of these men have died. JMHO
 Quoting: krispykritter


Very good theory
Anonymous Coward
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02/09/2012 02:51 PM
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Re: two witnesses of revelations
But seriously, IMHO, the two witnesses will surely know their identity and their mission. God will make it plain to them when they receive their mission and power and authority.


 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1194370





It seems that we may have had this discussion in the past.

(Hard to keep track:)

-->

John the Baptist surely seemed to know his 'mission',

But he didn't seem to know his 'identity'...

John 1:21
And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No.



 Quoting: Daniel's Seventieth Seven 1071051


Hi DSS,

Just catching up on the thread. I cannot recall if we have. :)

Perhaps I was unclear in this instance. I was moreso referring to a confidence and sense of ones self and the distinctiveness and uniqueness of character (as related to their mission).

Hopefully that clarifies my intent.

peace,
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1194370



Yep- Thanks Jay!




][
 Quoting: Daniel's Seventieth Seven 1071051


Surely it is a fascinating topic with much to ponder.

They (the two) are likened to two olive trees and two candlesticks.

Are these two of the seven or are they two more (being different)?

Does 'olive' denote the root or a branch grafted in?

And on and on...

I cannot say. Only speculation on my part.

As to who they are, I cannot say. Only speculation on my part. I (and I am sure you) have read many arguments with scripture. We see there has been much speculation over the years surrounding these two.

But I do suspect the world will know them. I suspect God (in his mercy) will make them known and very visible through their works and (sadly) through the torment they bring so that the world will see it align with scripture as a testimony to God and his prophetic truth. As, yet one more, opportunity for repentance.

IMHO.

peace,
Anonymous Coward
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02/09/2012 02:52 PM
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Re: two witnesses of revelations
It's Jesus, and the second coming, but by whatever name you desire
777
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02/09/2012 02:56 PM
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Re: two witnesses of revelations
op, humble yourself or God will do it for you. He humbled me powerfully so. I used to think I was the business also because I herd voices but later came to find out it was not God but the god of this world. Be very careful he is very powerful and will mess you up with words of grandeur.

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