Sitchin Debate -- Skeptics Welcome, Debunkers can FUCK OFF

if it's on the internet then it must be true eh

go fuck yourself

i know i said "none of these" but, you're a fucking idiot.

read a book, asshole.

The academic community are the chief skeptics of ZS works.

ZS interpretation is unorthodox and proven incorrect.

Sitchin's other research is without academic support.
[link to www.sitchiniswrong.com]

I dont agree with all of his conclusions however virtually every culture worshipped something that almost universally translates to 'those who from the heavens came' so yes Gods most probably once were flesh and blood.

"This was posted on another thread but is worth having its own thread:"

It's time to shine the light on "Dr." Heiser.

Heiser is a Christian who is described as follows:

"Mike has an active ministry to people whose worldview is molded by occult, paranormal, and esoteric beliefs. He observed that many who have adopted “alternative” worldviews were formerly traditional theists and Christians who left the faith when their questions on difficult passages and topics went unanswered, or when spiritual leaders failed to address experiences they had had. Mike seeks to fill these gaps as a Christian scholar and has become well known in these circles through writing, speaking, and numerous radio appearances." [link to www.logos.com]

He has an agenda and will disregard solid evidence and post a website that purports to successfully debunk Sitchin's work. Reading through his "scholarly" efforts just shows that Heiser is deadset, and damn evidence showing otherwise, on pushing his belief system. His explanation of the wheel mentioned in Ezekial is laughable and should be summed up by saying "Sitchin's explanation isn't true because it just isn't".

What is more amazing than anything is that Heiser has numerous degrees and paints himself as a self-appointed authority on that era but he curiously believes that Jesus actually existed, that Christianity is not a plagarized version of other ancient religions and that the Jesus story is original and not a composite picture of other cultures' faith.

One more thing: in his resume posted on his website, he suspiciously avoids noting that he attended Dallas Theological Seminary. Why? Dr. Heiser is deceptive and trying to hide his agenda from a general audience. His "ministry" is a lie to the general public because he isn't disclosing his true agenda

_________________________________________________

LPG-C; when Dr. Bordon became aware of Dr. Heiser's debunking attempts, he emailed him the following response as a comment to Heiser's research. Heiser, of course, never replied:

EMAIL TO MIKE HEISER
16 May 2011

Good afternoon, Mike. Just visited your blog (The Naked Bible/Eschatology
[link to michaelsheiser.com] Took the
time to read everything you have here, on your other site, The Facade, and
borrowed a copy of your dissertation which I also carefully and
thoughtfully read.

After some careful consideration of what Sitchin said and did (and the
“scholarship” with which he treated us through his Earth Chronicles) and
the rebuttals you regaled us all in your websites which you so ably
established sound basis in your dissertation, I came to realize two
things: (1) the Nibiru phenomenon is that, a phenomenon that has become
quite a meme in our culture as your stance and the people sharing their
views and feelings on your sites indicate; indeed, throughout the world,
and (2) the scholarship that supports or denies the reality of the
phenomenon is Biblical and sumero-egyptologic – a fact that makes both
sides (yours and Sitchin’s) open to claims that both are based upon (a) an
interpretation of the historical record, (b) a matter of expertise in
ancient near eastern languages, and (c) conclusions, being what they are
(hypothetical written “pictures” or models of a phenomenon), can be again
highly interpretive of the records treated as data supporting a view
through the prism used by the interpreter: Sitchin says “it is,” and you
say “it isn’t.”

But the story does not end there. There is, as they say, a “door number
3.” This door is the one through which, wittingly or unwittingly,
willingly or forced by circumstances, I am walking into this phenomenon.
This is the door opened by experiencers who have come in contact with
so-called Annunakis. In my case, it occurred when I was ten or eleven in
South America, on the Parana River between Brazil and Paraguay, while
fishing with my father northeast of Encarnacion, Paraguay. He and I were
“picked up” by a triangular six-man craft and, while my father was kept
sedated via interesting nonbiomedical means, I was not.

This was the first of three encounters with the same individual who lead
the first group on the Parana, and have since assisted the small
scientific cooperative that LPG-C has been since the early ’90s with very
advanced scientific information and the technology with which to get our
own by the same, or similar means, they have for apparent eaons. They
called it the “brilliance,” according to Sitchin; we were more mundane in
the naming, referring to it as simply “the tank.” We’ve been at it since
1998, when the first of two prototypes were completed, tested, and much to
our amazement, found it to work exceeding all of our expectations. The
results have been cumuli of information about how nature is and how nature
works, from the infinite to the infinitesimal, and presented in some
detail and with an historical sense of order on our new and improved
website at [link to www.lifephysicsgroup.org.] To wit: we are in process of
miniaturizing the key aspects of this apparatus, such that it could be
used by qualified scientists wishing to explore the same Nature we did.
Oh, the surprises that await them.

And we are not the only experiencers of these who call themselves Sa.a.mi.
and you and Sitchin know as Annunaki and fit the bill in appearance for
the ancient Annunaki and/or Nephilim (the latter seeming human-Annunaki
hybrids). There are others, and there are also others who are quietly
pursuing face-to-face benevolent contact with “giants” in several places
(South America, southern Africa, and the Mideast).

In a larger context, there is also an exopolitical framework which is
impinged upon by the past (and which is the reason we now all need not
scholarship proving one view or another, but rather a model of what we as
humans face today and must literally face within 50 to 70 years from now).
Whether or not Nibiru is a star or a planet or a comet, all of that is
splitting hair. The IRAS pictures did not lie, and the current South Pole
Telescope data is showing the incoming as being quite real, and
incidentally, proving Jim McCanney’s contentions out to be more certain
that any fiction I could write (and have written) about. No, Mike, this is
not fable, and it is not prehistory.

Let me close this unexpectedly longer note than I intended by simply
asking (1) whether or not you’ve ever experienced a face to face presence
with one of these creatures, and (2) what would you do if you could?

Kind regards,
A.R. BORDON

this message, sent to Heiser in 2001, has never received a response.

____________________________

the academic community's century and a half old interpretations of texts to which they had no technological paradigm, within which to interpret said texts is exactly who Sitchin is attempting to correct.

The difference being that the "Academic Community" claim that Sitchin is wrong simply because he's wrong. Sitchin claimed that the "Academic Community" was wrong, and then he spent 10 books explaining why.

If i could find a wealth of information explaining an opposing view, i'd read it. but it's not out there. the only thing out there is "He's wrong, cuz I/My Teacher said he's wrong."

Last Edited by Mordier L'eft on 02/09/2012 08:31 PM

Can you send me photos of your mother. wake up shills, this is it.

I have read every one of his books, I have all his videos and custom posters from events. I have his entire collection with his signature. I am a huge fan and have since recommended his work to many including my children.

All one has to do is look at his reference work which is listed on the back pages of his books. Then cross reference their work to what Sitchin is talking about. You will discover that he was right about so much that he talked about.

Turning mythology into reality is not easy for everyone to accept because they don't have the ability to discern truth from government sponsored BS.

It takes time and effort to acquire knowledge. Its not something given for free. You have to work to achieve.

Most everyone reading this type of material will never work at it like I have to dig for the truth. Most people are just lazy.

it sounds like our experiences are very similar.

i tend to give away my copies, buy more, give 'em away....etc.

Sending this off to Mike for his response.

Oh and FYI.....
Mike earned his PhD in Hebrew Bible and Semitic Languages at the University of Wisconsin-Madison. Before going to the UW-Madison, Mike earned an M.A. in Ancient History from the University of Pennsylvania (major fields were Ancient Israel and Egyptology), and another M.A. from the University of Wisconsin-Madison (Hebrew Studies). He also attended Dallas Theological Seminary. Mike’s undergraduate degree is from Bob Jones University, but he also attended Bible college for three years.

Forgot this little bit where it clearly states Dallas Theological Seminary
[link to www.sitchiniswrong.com]

Just because someone has all these accredited titles does not mean shit. Sitchin taught himself to read Sumerian, was the largest private owner of Sumerian and Babylonian clay tablets. Traveled the world through out his entire life to ancient sites with groups of people. He was a teacher and researcher not defined by his multiple MA'S or his Christian background. MH can say what ever he likes. But Sitchin took action to learn. You cant learn what he did sitting behind a fucking desk. It takes action based on direction. Sitchin did all of this in search of truth. Anyone that wants to debunk him without doing the same is a lazy hack trying to ride the coat tails of the guy that did all the work. MH is an epic fail regardless of his education background. Anybody can go to school forever and achieve these same degrees. However it does not hold merit unless you can say "I have been there and done that and this is what I have learned over the past 40 years". Again action with direction and purpose is what is required to attain knowledge. Its not for everyone.

Sitchin's UFO PlanetX Vatican Hoax

According to reports Zecharia Sitchin worked out of the Vatican with Jesuits who have been for a long time advancing mind control about: aliens and UFO.

Leo Zagami: Zecharia Sitchin was Vatican shill

[link to www.youtube.com]

Photo of Stichin and Corrado Balducci, the head ufologist exorcist and demonologist at the Vatican.
[link to www.sitchin.com]
[link to en.wikipedia.org]
Monsignor Corrado Balducci, (May 11, 1923 - September 20, 2008), was a Roman Catholic theologian of the Vatican Curia, a close friend of the pope, long time exorcist for the Archdiocese of Rome, and a Prelate of the Congregation for the Evangelization of Peoples and the Society for the Propagation of the Faith.

[link to www.youtube.com]
[link to www.youtube.com]


While Leo Zagami has a working knowledge of the Vatican and their Templar military knights--Freemasonry he is not a Christian thus cannot explain what the Vatican's motive in perpetrating this giant hoax.

This life in space is supportive of the Jesuit's 'big bang' theories. If there is life on earth according to big bang there should be life in space. There is none, lol.

Telescope dubbed: LUCIFER used to spot planets.
[link to redicecreations.com]
We can trust Lucifer?

really? 45 minutes of youtube videos is research now?

who is this random person who name drops sitchin once?

does he have credentials?

or a name?

Should we trust a nameless?

I agree 100% again, here is a perfect example of a lazy person. This is what I mean when I wrote the path to knowledge is not for everyone. This guy is a perfect example. I bet he has never read one book by Dr. Samuel Kramer. I bet he does not even know who he is. This is what you can expect by 95% of everyone that looks at this thread. They have done nothing, no work or research of any kind accept to post these stupid threads. ANOTHER EPIC FAIL....TRY AGAIN BUT PUT SOME EFFORT INTO IT NEXT TIME.

Dr. Samuel Noah Kramer
[link to en.wikipedia.org]

Have you read any of his books? Even if he is not completely accurate, his work has had tremendous influence and sparked major interest in the Middle East.

There is a principle which is the bar against all information, which is proof against all argument, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance. This is the principle of contempt prior to examination - Archdeacon William Paley, D.D. 1743-1805

BRAVO

I have read all of Sitchin's books and, attemting to keep an open mind, found myself resonating with the logic of his theory. I believe it to be possible if not true.

As to those who believe that credentials from acredited universities gives them cart blanche on the truth, let me remind them that they received those credentials from a system that is financed and control by those with agendas. I have learned to trust what comes out of our university systems about as much as I trust what comes out of the MSM. So much of it is contaminated with monied interests and control agendas.

Most of what I believe is the outcome of independent research. I support independent scholarship. Most good theory has come from those whose minds are not regulated or restriicted by "academic" contamination.

Blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth.

"If you're a debunker, then you DON'T do research into anything you don't believe in or agree with."

Uh... no. Sorry. That's your own definition of a debunker you just pulled out of your ass.

To debunk something is to prove it false with a reasoned and logical presentation of proof. By definition, it is impossible to debunk something without research.

then prove it false, with reasoned and logical presentation of proof. please.

that definition, BTW, is the definition of a skeptic -- not a debunker. i believe i laid out the criteria of differentiation between the two. read a little more closely, please.

I've only read one of Sitchen's books and I can tell he was meticulous in his research, but I'm not claiming he was 100% accurate. Cuneiform is not easily translated.

The First World War virtually put an end to cuneiform translation progress with the deaths of so many young scholars, and it was not until the 1950's that people like Samuel Noah Kramer began to restore progress. Sitchin drew heavily upon Kramer’s accounts of Sumerian sophistication. Only one man really sorted out cuneiform origins by starting from the beginning and ignoring academic protocols and religious prejudice. He took a common sense secular approach and this has provided us with a down to earth and accurate version of these incredible historical events with his books the Megalithic Odyssey, Genius of the Few, the Shining Ones and the Path of Light. His name was Christian O'Brien and after a career as a leading exploration geologist and retiring from being the head of the oil operating companies in Iran in 1971, he set out with his wife Barbara Joy, to recover past knowledge until his death in 2001.

It is notable that both Sitchin and O’Brien amongst others had the vision to recognise the essential fact, that there was a brilliant advanced civilisation in the past, led by the Anannage (O’Brien’s correct translation). Both deserve our full attention and respect in the recovery of our incredible history, free from man made religious constraints, and the constant abuse of adjectives such as serpent, meaning wise man or woman, and not snake or reptilian, together with semitic and aryan dealt with earlier.

Sitchin's translation problems and journalistic imagination have produced a range of extraordinarily detailed best selling books, which have excited a wide audience, but have failed to give the fully referenced support and obvious accuracy needed for credibility. O’Brien takes the scholarly multi-disciplinary analytical approach, which features an alternative translation of the early chapters of Genesis dealing with the bright ones in the planted highlands, rather than God in Heaven, together with a thorough re-assessment of the Books of Enoch, and the detailed clarification of the Kharsag creation stories, which Barton described as the oldest religious texts. O’Brien provides the clear links between these key records and background of logical analysis and accuracy of content, which makes real sense and allows so much more knowledge to be recovered from what can best be described as an essential road map of time.

Additional research has shown that our brilliant ancestors had been able to survive both the 10,850 BC global cataclysm, which has been described as the biggest mass extinction for 3 million years, and the consequent Great Younger Dryas Ice Age, so that when the planet began to warm up around 9,400 BC, succeeding generations were able to start again. A small group of survivors led by An, Enlil, Enki and Ninkharsag created the Garden of the Gods in a crucial glacial refuge, irrigated by a critical snow melt water supply, shed from the flanks of Mt Hermon.

The scientific evidence of agricultural origins now available to us supports this O’Brien location, and overturns the Sitchin and other Sumerian based hypotheses. The work of astrophysicists and geologists demonstrate regular global catastrophes and migrations, with the destruction of cities caused by cometary debris impacts, and not nuclear wars. Sitchins great strength was to provide the clues needed to unravel our history. For example the story of the path apparently taken by Phaeton/Marduk through our solar system and the collision with lost planet Tiamat c. 10,850 BC is based on Sumerian Texts and explained in Cataclysm by D.S. Allan and J.B. Delair. The resulting tipping of the earth on its axis being recorded by the star shaft alignments in the Great Pyramid, before and after the event to the north and south pole stars Zeta Orionis and Alpha Draconis and detailed in Message from the Ancestors by Canadian John Gagnon.

From many other sources such as Plato, Charles Rollin, W.J. Perry, Ashurbanipal, Hadrian and William Blake, we find support for the wholly benevolent Gods capable of wonderful feats. The ancient world had no doubts as to who had delivered agriculture and civilisation, with many accounts giving us clues as to the location of the meeting place of the Divine Council at Enlil’s e-kur mountain house close to Mt Hermon in Lebanon. O’Brien’s detailed description of the Garden of the Gods taken from the ancient texts, was confirmed by our November 2009 Golden Age Project survey of the site. The Gods moved on from Kharsag/Eden to the springhead site at Baalbek to dispense kingship and justice at the head of the two rivers, the Litani and the Orontes, not the Tigris and Euphrates.
What we find with the O’Brien work are the more accurate records of our brilliant and benevolent ancestors, who re-started civilisation and agriculture under appalling difficulties, delivering brilliant laws, domesticated crops and animals, civilised living, superb social organisation through the early city state system, and many other incredible technologies and skills, which flourished over thousands of years in a Golden Age, recorded and respected by the ancient Greek historians and philosophers of Alexandria.

In conclusion, no Sumerians before 3,770 BC, no slave species, no Niburu (a name for Nippur with b and p being interchangeable), no nuclear wars between the Gods, no 1950's space technology, space helmets, splash downs, and no gold used for repairing damaged atmospheres. Agriculture was re-started at Kharsag (meaning head enclosure) in the Southern Bekka and Jordan Valley around 9,400 BC following the Great Younger Dryas Ice Age by Angels and Watchers, the culture bearers, who took the technology around the world in the next 2,000 years, well before the building of Eridu in Mesopotamia valley around 5,500 BC. Farming was recorded as being delivered into Mesopotamian by the apkalu (bright farmers from the enclosure) or genii genius’, (angels and watchers) under the Enki, a title for the Lord of the Land, and the Enlil, title of Lord of the Cultivation or Plough and also the title for the Lord of the Spirits. The great cities were dedicated out of respect to the original Anannage leaders and their families, led by An, the monotheistic God of Abraham.


See www.goldenageproject.org.uk and Learning from History Parts 5 and 10

Even the information above I am skeptical. Every culture has a myth based on gods that came down from above.

Well, it wouldn't be the first time that acadaemia was guilty of NOT going where the evidence led. It's truly shocking that this man's lifetime of work has been maligned by a scientific community more interested in remaining entrenched in its comfort zone than in exploring the possibility of truths other than those previously published.

The academic community has stated in the past that coming out in support of this man's work would be akin to career suicide. And why? Because they know that there is an agenda behind all of their funding. Sitchin doesn't fit that agenda. All the more reason to keep his work alive.

Why would a super advanced ancient people capable of genetic manipulation need gold?

why don't you read a book and find out?

i don't really have the energy to summarize several days of reading in one internet post.

Last Edited by Mordier L'eft on 02/10/2012 09:49 AM

interesting. everyone with a positive view of sitchin seem to be intelligent, well-read and well-spoken people....

and a few debunkers.

if a debunker informs himself, he is no longer a debunker. then he becomes a skeptic. i guess there are no skeptics here.