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Top Kill: Reflections of the Deepwater Horizon

 
A Muse Me (OP)

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Re: Top Kill: Reflections of the Deepwater Horizon

The term derives from the Ancient Greek words, meta, meaning beyond or after, and noia, meaning perception or understanding or mind.
A Muse Me (OP)

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Re: Top Kill: Reflections of the Deepwater Horizon


...The little BOP might spill the whole kit and caboodle of methane hydrates and say, “I am not to blame. You all are. What were you thinking when you passed The Methane Hydrate Research and Development Act of 2000? I quote from an update from the Government Affairs Program American Geological Institute”, the little BOP continues:
 Quoting: IF A BOP COULD TALK


There are technological problems that must be addressed before methane hydrate can be economically and safely extracted. In its natural state below permafrost or under the seafloor, methane hydrate is a solid and cannot flow up the drill stem. Recovery methods, such as steam flooding and depressurization are centered around causing the methane to sublimate, which enables production as a gas. However, expansion associated with the phase change of methane hydrate to methane gas has historically been a hazard to oil exploration and production. For instance, the escape of methane gas to shallow depths has been responsible for the disappearance of whole rigs from the induced liquefaction of sediment into which they were secured. Methane hydrates are also thought to be responsible for some massive submarine landslides.
 Quoting: Government Affairs Program American Geological Institute

The term derives from the Ancient Greek words, meta, meaning beyond or after, and noia, meaning perception or understanding or mind.
A Muse Me (OP)

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Re: Top Kill: Reflections of the Deepwater Horizon

The term derives from the Ancient Greek words, meta, meaning beyond or after, and noia, meaning perception or understanding or mind.
A Muse Me (OP)

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Re: Top Kill: Reflections of the Deepwater Horizon

The term derives from the Ancient Greek words, meta, meaning beyond or after, and noia, meaning perception or understanding or mind.
A Muse Me (OP)

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Re: Top Kill: Reflections of the Deepwater Horizon

 Quoting: A Muse Me




Gulf oil spill: similar disaster could occur in Arctic later this year
The oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico has heightened fears of a similar disaster occurring off America's Arctic coast, where Shell is due to begin exploratory drilling later this year.

President Barack Obama has ordered a review of the Anglo-Dutch firms plan's to drill off the coast of Alaska.
Activists have claimed that the remote nature of the proposed drilling site, sub-zero temperatures and gale-force winds would be formidable obstacles to any potential clean-up operation.
 Quoting: Oil Gushing in Gulf Changes Color

The term derives from the Ancient Greek words, meta, meaning beyond or after, and noia, meaning perception or understanding or mind.
A Muse Me (OP)

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Re: Top Kill: Reflections of the Deepwater Horizon

The term derives from the Ancient Greek words, meta, meaning beyond or after, and noia, meaning perception or understanding or mind.
A Muse Me (OP)

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Re: Top Kill: Reflections of the Deepwater Horizon
...Are liberals, environmentalists, and Gulf Coast working class conservatives alike, all still fuming over the gulf, waiting for the mainstream media to pick up the story first? Do they watch C-Span? Watch committee and subcommittee hearings on issues they are concerned about? Check in occasionally on what folks are saying on the Senate Floor? Read the national commission BP final report?

Though the report offers both industry and government a scathing slap on the wrist, “The root causes are systemic and, absent significant reform in both industry practices and government policies, might well recur,” the words Methane Hydrates are never mentioned.
 Quoting: Are We Playing With Fire?


 Quoting: Senate Session: May 23, 2011

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A Muse Me (OP)

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Re: Top Kill: Reflections of the Deepwater Horizon

The term derives from the Ancient Greek words, meta, meaning beyond or after, and noia, meaning perception or understanding or mind.
A Muse Me (OP)

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Re: Top Kill: Reflections of the Deepwater Horizon

The term derives from the Ancient Greek words, meta, meaning beyond or after, and noia, meaning perception or understanding or mind.
Spazz

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Re: Top Kill: Reflections of the Deepwater Horizon

 Quoting: A Muse Me


Obscure mode here, excuse the repetition...banana2



I'm Out of My Element ~ Nurture Nature

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A Muse Me (OP)

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Re: Top Kill: Reflections of the Deepwater Horizon


Hey, Spazz flower
The term derives from the Ancient Greek words, meta, meaning beyond or after, and noia, meaning perception or understanding or mind.
A Muse Me (OP)

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Re: Top Kill: Reflections of the Deepwater Horizon

The term derives from the Ancient Greek words, meta, meaning beyond or after, and noia, meaning perception or understanding or mind.
A Muse Me (OP)

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Re: Top Kill: Reflections of the Deepwater Horizon
Been w/GLP a while first bsflag ever.

Here is your fucking BS..

[link to gltrs.grc.nasa.gov]


Methane Hydrates: More Than a Viable Aviation Fuel Feedstock Option


The unabated release of methane (10 to 20 times more detrimental as a greenhouse gas than CO2) sequestered in these hydrates could impact the planet to the point of extinction of life as we understand it. Considering the predicted Earth thermal events, the stability of methane hydrates, and the impact of methane on the environment, the question is not will this methane be released, but when. It is suggested in this report that enhanced efforts be placed on a comprehensive program to locate, assess, and recover the sequestered methane at surface levels to meet the energy demand rather than permitting natural release into the environment
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 973441


[link to www.aade.org]

AADE-03-NTCE-04
Methane Hydrate as a Future Energy Source: Framing the Debate

As stated in the Congressional Research Service website:
Sea floor stability refers to the susceptibility of the sea
floor to collapse and slide as the result of gas hydrate
disassociation
. The safety issue refers to petroleum drilling
and production hazards that may occur in association with
gas hydrates in both offshore and onshore environments.
The safety issue affects current oil and gas production as
well as being of concern to possible hydrate development
in the future” (Ref. 2). Some of the ancillary problems
attributable to Methane Hydrate dissociation are also
manifested in conventional oil and gas drilling and
production operations. Seafloor stability therefore
becomes a major hurdle to overcome. In fact, some
believe that many current conventional deepwater surface
operations could result in seafloor instability, and even
seafloor collapse as a result of Methane Hydrate
dissociations.


Several events could occur and cannot be ignored:
§ Uncontrolled gas releases during drilling.
§ Collapse of well casings, and gas leakage to the
surface.
§ Subsidence of general sea floor infrastructures,
including pipelines.
§ Dissociation of Methane Hydrate while cementing due
to exothermic reactions.
§ Dissociation of Methane Hydrate while producing due
to the higher temperature of produced fluids from
deeper horizons.
In the marine environment, gas leakage to the surface
around the outside of the well casing may result in local
sea floor subsidence and the loss of support for
foundations of drilling platforms. The industry has
conducted seminars regarding some of these issues, and
considers some of the safety related issues to be crucial to
the development of conventional deepwater hydrocarbon
resources 9.

Seafloor Stability: This is possibly the greatest hurdle
related to Methane Hydrate development. Reservoir
subsidence is already an enormous problem in
conventional oil and gas production. In some cases, even
very deep reservoir subsidence has been transferred to
the surface. Given that Methane Hydrate provides the
cementation matrix mechanism for very soft muds and
sands, then it follows that recovery of significant amounts
of Methane Hydrate could result not only in subsidence,
but possibly catastrophic reservoir collapse, eventually
manifesting itself at the seabed.
In the example of the
Mallik cores, it is interesting to note that the Methane
Hydrate product was indicated as high as 80% by
volume10
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 973441

The term derives from the Ancient Greek words, meta, meaning beyond or after, and noia, meaning perception or understanding or mind.
A Muse Me (OP)

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Re: Top Kill: Reflections of the Deepwater Horizon

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A Muse Me (OP)

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Re: Top Kill: Reflections of the Deepwater Horizon
Top kill has nothing to do with the bottom...

It is shooting drilling mud into the choke and kill lines at the top of the riser by the BOP...

It shoots the mud down the choke and kill and then back up the drill pipe and clog it up


 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 981643

Damn, thanks....i thought they where just going to dump a bunch of cement down in the hole.
 Quoting: Gabriel

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A Muse Me (OP)

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Re: Top Kill: Reflections of the Deepwater Horizon

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A Muse Me (OP)

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Re: Top Kill: Reflections of the Deepwater Horizon
They were drilling for natural gas, probably the natural gas that we have come to know as methane hydrates. If they were drilling for the oil they would have been deeper that 18,000 under the sea floor. The MF's were probably using an highly controversial process called fracking in offshore drilling. Highly controversial in land drilling for a few years now. Halliburton will not share the toxins used in "their" fracking formula. community aquifers are be tainted with toxins and gases never seen before. A highly controversial process that causes gas to come out of people's faucets along with the water. There are numerous utubes of watching people use a lighter to set the water on fire. Congress and the EPA should be continuing the investigations they had already started before this environmental; disaster that killed people while they are doing this new investigations. Fuck this shit.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 938245


Thanks for some additional insight.

I have read ,in several places, that the concentration of gas (methane hydrates) to oil in this well was; and still is extremely high.

"BP is still using a riser insertion tube tool to contain oil at the larger of the leak sites. The company said Thursday that the tube was capturing 5,000 barrels of oil per day from the well and had the capacity to capture more. The company announced Friday, however, that it had decided to restate how it measures and reports the amount of oil the tube is capturing.

"The rate fluctuates quite widely," Suttles said. "It's better to look at a 24-hour period."

From midnight Wednesday to midnight Thursday, the tube collected just less than 2,200 barrels of oil and 15 million cubic feet of natural gas, Suttles said, although at points during that period it was on pace to capture as much as 5,000 barrels per day. The tube has not captured 5,000 barrels in a 24-hour period, Suttles said."

Also enough pressure was created to distort the diameter of the pipe end by 30%

"Some of those third-party estimates did not factor in the amount of natural gas escaping from the well or the damage to the riser and drill pipes after the April 20 explosion, factors that could depress the amount of oil escaping.

"For instance, while the original riser was 19.5 inches in diameter prior to the Deepwater Horizon accident, damage sustained during the accident distorted the diameter at the end of the pipe by about 30 percent
," BP said in a statement. "In addition, a drill pipe currently trapped inside the riser has reduced the flow area by an additional 10 percent

[link to www.nola.com]

Apparently there was concern about cement failure. One article stated that the cement failure was possibly related to contamination of the cement by drilling mud.

“In its internal investigation, BP also flags up cement problems, adding that the float collar initially did not operate as intended - it appears it took nine attempts with higher than usual pressures to get the float to bump.
It also appears that the float test carried out after cementing may not have been definitive, flagging up concerns that the cement slurry may have been contaminated by drilling mud”.

[link to www.upstreamonline.com]

I would think that the deepwater drillers would have a lot of experience using both cement and drilling mud, so this seems implausible to me. Could the compounds in this “fracking formula” have induced the cement failure? This “fracking formula” concept is intriguing.


Could the high concentrations of methane hydrates played a role in the cement failure?

“Although public discussion of damage from methane hydrate accidents appears to be minimal, the danger is well-recognized within the industry. Last November, one Halliburton executive gave a presentation before a meeting of the American Association of Drilling Engineers in Houston, titled "Deepwater Cementing Consideration to Prevent Hydrate Destabilization."
It recognizes that the cementing process releases heat which can destabilize methane hydrates, and presents something called Cement System 2 as a solution to the problem. One of the graphs shows that the system doesn't achieve gel strength for four hours.
Yet according to an eyewitness report broadcast on Sunday on 60 minutes, BP managers made the decision to decrease pressure in the well column by removing drilling mud before the cement had solidified in three plugs Halliburton had poured.”


[link to solveclimate.com]

Perhaps the BP enigneers missed this presentaion:
Especially look at slides # 20. and #21 static gel strength vs hours in this PDF:
[link to www.aade.org]

As these developments unfolded, reports emerged that implicated gas liberated from methane hydrates as a likely cause of the explosion and fire that destroyed the Deepwater Horizon.
Robert Bea, a University of California Berkeley engineering professor
who serves on a National Academy of Engineering panel on oil pipeline safety, has received copies of interviews with survivors of the explosion and has described them to the Associated Press.
Essentially they describe a sequence of events in which a bubble of methane gas escaped from the well and shot up the drill column, expanding quickly as it burst through several seals and barriers before contacting an ignition source and exploding.
The well was being sealed and a chemical reaction caused by heat from the setting cement may have released methane
.”
[link to www.marinelog.com]

I still really think this was a problem of destablaiziton of the methane hydrates caused by the heat liberated by the cement slurry hydration and also possbily allowing inadequate time for the cement to set.

Bottom line, BP had inadequate knowledge and safety proceedures to be doing what they were doing so deep, and so near known large quanties of metane hydrates. I would rather have outside scientists and engineers more involved in the solution to this than what they seem to be.

I am really worried about them being adequate to fix this mess, but I am trying to convince myself to have a little tiny bit of hope. (My 2 cents anyway.)
 Quoting: emerald eye

The term derives from the Ancient Greek words, meta, meaning beyond or after, and noia, meaning perception or understanding or mind.
A Muse Me (OP)

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Re: Top Kill: Reflections of the Deepwater Horizon

The term derives from the Ancient Greek words, meta, meaning beyond or after, and noia, meaning perception or understanding or mind.
A Muse Me (OP)

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Re: Top Kill: Reflections of the Deepwater Horizon
I guess the sheeple think the drilling mud is just plain old mud. It is a freaking toxins and now more toxins are being added into the Gulf b/c of the the "leaks" in the pipes. Those gushes will continue while they push the toxic mud b/c they are having to push it with more pressure than in normal drilling.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 938245


Here ya go. Just scroll on through the link and take a look at this mud. Yeppie the next new dispersant that they will tell us they were using during this top kill shot.

[link to yosemite.epa.gov]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 938245

The term derives from the Ancient Greek words, meta, meaning beyond or after, and noia, meaning perception or understanding or mind.
A Muse Me (OP)

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Re: Top Kill: Reflections of the Deepwater Horizon
This "mud" is indeed highly toxic. Yet what else can you do?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 878246


I guess the sheeple think the drilling mud is just plain old mud. It is a freaking toxins and now more toxins are being added into the Gulf b/c of the the "leaks" in the pipes. Those gushes will continue while they push the toxic mud b/c they are having to push it with more pressure than in normal drilling.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 938245


Here ya go. Just scroll on through the link and take a look at this mud. Yeppie the next new dispersant that they will tell us they were using during this top kill shot.

[link to yosemite.epa.gov]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 938245

 Quoting: A Muse Me

The term derives from the Ancient Greek words, meta, meaning beyond or after, and noia, meaning perception or understanding or mind.
A Muse Me (OP)

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Re: Top Kill: Reflections of the Deepwater Horizon
Hell, I don't know. I'm not god. Just the goddess of years worth of bookmarks just waiting to post theim_a_gay_spammers while the sheeple are getting the opportunity to wake up and start asking,"Yet what else can you do?"
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 938245


This "mud" is indeed highly toxic. Yet what else can you do?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 878246


I guess the sheeple think the drilling mud is just plain old mud. It is a freaking toxins and now more toxins are being added into the Gulf b/c of the the "leaks" in the pipes. Those gushes will continue while they push the toxic mud b/c they are having to push it with more pressure than in normal drilling.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 938245


Here ya go. Just scroll on through the link and take a look at this mud. Yeppie the next new dispersant that they will tell us they were using during this top kill shot.

[link to yosemite.epa.gov]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 938245

 Quoting: A Muse Me

 Quoting: A Muse Me

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Re: Top Kill: Reflections of the Deepwater Horizon

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A Muse Me (OP)

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Re: Top Kill: Reflections of the Deepwater Horizon

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A Muse Me (OP)

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Re: Top Kill: Reflections of the Deepwater Horizon
...In mid may Obama opened up leases for exploratory drilling for the deepwater Gulf, Arctic Ocean and permafrost regions, and off the Atlantic coast. Understand that he is not talking about drilling for oil in the Arctic permafrost and off the Atlantic coast. And, when they say natural gas, know they are talking about extracting gas from the methane hydrate deposits in those two areas. Ken Salazar gave it away by professing a bit too much as to why they were going to the Atlantic.

“The fact of the matter is we know very little about the Atlantic because the information we have is 30 years old,” Salazar told reporters today. “One of the things we owe to the American people is to make our decisions based on good information. Right now there is very little information on the Atlantic.”
Guess Ken failed to check up on the DOE website.
 Quoting: Are We Playing With Fire?


Blake Ridge is a bathymetric high located on the Atlantic continental rise approximately 400 km east from Charleston, South Carolina. The sedimentary feature is situated in water depths between 2,000 to 4,800 meters and is approximately 500 km in length. Over the past 30 years, the Blake Ridge has become perhaps the best-studied occurrence of methane hydrate in the United States.
 Quoting: [link to www.netl.doe.gov]

The term derives from the Ancient Greek words, meta, meaning beyond or after, and noia, meaning perception or understanding or mind.
A Muse Me (OP)

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Re: Top Kill: Reflections of the Deepwater Horizon

The term derives from the Ancient Greek words, meta, meaning beyond or after, and noia, meaning perception or understanding or mind.
A Muse Me (OP)

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Re: Top Kill: Reflections of the Deepwater Horizon

The term derives from the Ancient Greek words, meta, meaning beyond or after, and noia, meaning perception or understanding or mind.
Spazz

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Re: Top Kill: Reflections of the Deepwater Horizon
GoOd MoRnInG MuSe,

Woke up with all sorts of ideas today, quite the morning ponder with strong coffee. I believe I read your words somewhere, and where escapes me at the moment, you mentioned that nature doesn't wake up on the defensive...for some reason I can't stop pondering that. As you know, I am rather fixated on camouflage and all its conceptual layers, the whole concept of such a product and/or manifestation of evolution as a protection mechanism. It really struck me when you said that so I want to expand my understanding more, like non-Euclidian geometry.

This was going through said head as well, slime. Yeah slime. As an consistent keeper of aquariums I learned that fish have a coat of slime that protects them. For instance, if you handle fish in a transfer from store to tank and such, care is needed so as not to damage their slime coat. If the slime coat is damaged the fish becomes susceptible to death and disease.

SO many things to ponder and I have a full practical schedule that entertains procrastination, shaking that off.
I'm Out of My Element ~ Nurture Nature

Why hide and then expect to be seen?
A Muse Me (OP)

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Re: Top Kill: Reflections of the Deepwater Horizon
GoOd MoRnInG MuSe,

Woke up with all sorts of ideas today, quite the morning ponder with strong coffee. I believe I read your words somewhere, and where escapes me at the moment, you mentioned that nature doesn't wake up on the defensive...for some reason I can't stop pondering that. As you know, I am rather fixated on camouflage and all its conceptual layers, the whole concept of such a product and/or manifestation of evolution as a protection mechanism. It really struck me when you said that so I want to expand my understanding more, like non-Euclidian geometry.

This was going through said head as well, slime. Yeah slime. As an consistent keeper of aquariums I learned that fish have a coat of slime that protects them. For instance, if you handle fish in a transfer from store to tank and such, care is needed so as not to damage their slime coat. If the slime coat is damaged the fish becomes susceptible to death and disease.

SO many things to ponder and I have a full practical schedule that entertains procrastination, shaking that off.
 Quoting: Spazz


I recall saying it. Comes down to the concept of Anthropocentrism.

[link to en.wikipedia.org]
The term derives from the Ancient Greek words, meta, meaning beyond or after, and noia, meaning perception or understanding or mind.
Spazz

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02/21/2012 12:45 PM

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Re: Top Kill: Reflections of the Deepwater Horizon
GoOd MoRnInG MuSe,

Woke up with all sorts of ideas today, quite the morning ponder with strong coffee. I believe I read your words somewhere, and where escapes me at the moment, you mentioned that nature doesn't wake up on the defensive...for some reason I can't stop pondering that. As you know, I am rather fixated on camouflage and all its conceptual layers, the whole concept of such a product and/or manifestation of evolution as a protection mechanism. It really struck me when you said that so I want to expand my understanding more, like non-Euclidian geometry.

This was going through said head as well, slime. Yeah slime. As an consistent keeper of aquariums I learned that fish have a coat of slime that protects them. For instance, if you handle fish in a transfer from store to tank and such, care is needed so as not to damage their slime coat. If the slime coat is damaged the fish becomes susceptible to death and disease.

SO many things to ponder and I have a full practical schedule that entertains procrastination, shaking that off.
 Quoting: Spazz


I recall saying it. Comes down to the concept of Anthropocentrism.

[link to en.wikipedia.org]
 Quoting: A Muse Me



Thank you!
I'm Out of My Element ~ Nurture Nature

Why hide and then expect to be seen?
A Muse Me (OP)

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Re: Top Kill: Reflections of the Deepwater Horizon


Talk to you later, Spazz.
The term derives from the Ancient Greek words, meta, meaning beyond or after, and noia, meaning perception or understanding or mind.

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