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Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 15631138
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05/06/2012 04:00 PM
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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
The vacuum chamber on the end of a rocket is a really cool idea! Lets test it:

Assumptions:
Vacuum chamber is huge (lets just say many miles long) and add no mass or air resistance.
Exhaust from rocket only goes into vacuum chamber.

What happens?
Chemicals (liquid hydrogen and oxygen) react making a very hot gas. In a hot gas the molecules move very fast and shoot out the nozzle. Due to conservation of momentum the molecules move one way then the rocket will move the other way.

Momentum always is conserved:
total momentum before: 0 - both the fuel and rocket are at rest
total momentum after: 0 - hot gas shooting one way, rocket shoots other way

The hot gas doesn't need to push off of anything, its all just conservation of momentum like recoil from a gun or throwing a ball while ice skating.

HOWEVER: The rocket will eventually slow down when the hot gas hits the back side of the vacuum chamber, but that besides the point since there is no back side to space.

Granted this is all based on the ASSUMPTION that momentum is conserved. Yes for everyone out there I said ASSUMPTION. Science is a constantly evolving field. Everything including rockets that we have observed obeys conservation of momentum. One day we may find some situation/object that doesn't, but until that day I CHOOSE to believe it. And if you choose no to believe in conservation of momentum, then that is FINE, but you should have a good reason or explanation for everything that we observe that says conservation of momentum is valid.

Also, I work at x-ray rocket lab. Yes we dont go into deep space, but then again NONE of space is truely a vacuum. Anyway, we have to test our rockets in a vacuum chamber to make sure they will work. It take a lot to hold the rockets in place because when fired they exert a force. if a rocket didn't work in space you could just set them on a table and the wouldn't go anywhere and my job would be alot easier
Anonymous Coward
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05/27/2012 10:31 AM
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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
The vacuum chamber on the end of a rocket is a really cool idea! Lets test it:

Assumptions:
Vacuum chamber is huge (lets just say many miles long) and add no mass or air resistance.
Exhaust from rocket only goes into vacuum chamber.

What happens?
Chemicals (liquid hydrogen and oxygen) react making a very hot gas. In a hot gas the molecules move very fast and shoot out the nozzle. Due to conservation of momentum the molecules move one way then the rocket will move the other way.

Momentum always is conserved:
total momentum before: 0 - both the fuel and rocket are at rest
total momentum after: 0 - hot gas shooting one way, rocket shoots other way

The hot gas doesn't need to push off of anything, its all just conservation of momentum like recoil from a gun or throwing a ball while ice skating.

HOWEVER: The rocket will eventually slow down when the hot gas hits the back side of the vacuum chamber, but that besides the point since there is no back side to space.

Granted this is all based on the ASSUMPTION that momentum is conserved. Yes for everyone out there I said ASSUMPTION. Science is a constantly evolving field. Everything including rockets that we have observed obeys conservation of momentum. One day we may find some situation/object that doesn't, but until that day I CHOOSE to believe it. And if you choose no to believe in conservation of momentum, then that is FINE, but you should have a good reason or explanation for everything that we observe that says conservation of momentum is valid.

Also, I work at x-ray rocket lab. Yes we dont go into deep space, but then again NONE of space is truely a vacuum. Anyway, we have to test our rockets in a vacuum chamber to make sure they will work. It take a lot to hold the rockets in place because when fired they exert a force. if a rocket didn't work in space you could just set them on a table and the wouldn't go anywhere and my job would be alot easier
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 15631138


good post.

if you work in a rocket lab what on earth are you doing on glp lol?

do you have any videos of your rockets providing thrust in the vacuum chamber?
Anonymous Coward
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06/21/2012 11:17 PM
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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
Space is not an absolute vacuum the molecules are just far apart. While this makes for less push from rocket, it also makes less resistance to the rockets movement, so it balances. Also rockets work fine underwater ( do you not play with bottle rockets where you live?)
x26111

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07/14/2012 05:39 PM
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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
what happens if you lift the rear end of a jet ski out of the water? why wont it now go forward? it is still forcing water out of the jet, where is the equal/opposite now?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13470385


Very good analogy. Funny how they all ignored it...
Anonymous Coward
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07/15/2012 04:08 PM
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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
what happens if you lift the rear end of a jet ski out of the water? why wont it now go forward? it is still forcing water out of the jet, where is the equal/opposite now?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13470385


Very good analogy. Funny how they all ignored it...
 Quoting: x26111


Bad analogy because it has a false premise. The jet ski will still go forward.
cp06866

User ID: 20620696
Trinidad and Tobago
08/01/2012 08:25 PM
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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
But this does not change "rocket propulsion cannot work in space."
 Quoting: cp06866


Nope. That statement is still as wrong as the first time you said it.

How do you explain how every scientist (not just the rocket scientists although they have first hand knowledge) and every country that has ANYTHING to do with space agrees that rocket propulsion DOES work in space? Is it some vast conspiracy that only you and a few others know the "real" truth? That's called delusional. Get help. You need it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14143765


You are correct, they agree (without proof), yet they are incorrect! Scientist just hold on to Sir Newton's Law in order to explain it. I think you need help thinking/analysing/experimenting for yourself. You obviously need it.

Stop studying what everyone believes, find out for yourself and stop waiting on others to do so.

Newton's law does not apply to a rocket working without surrounding atmospheric pressure. Even Newton didn't agree with this. Yet his theory is held responsible (without proper experimental proof) for rocket propulsion in space.

Newton's law wouldn't have had a place in this mess if NASA didn't fake the whole thing. So then, Newton's third law becomes the scapegoat.

I don't know why people just repeat after others and then fool themselves into thinking that they know something...

Last Edited by Kyros Nox on 08/01/2012 08:26 PM
Anonymous Coward
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08/14/2012 04:26 PM
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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
So what you are saying is that every country that claims to have satellites in orbit (in a vaccuun) are liars....and that there are no satellites, because the rockets can't get them up there?
Anonymous Coward
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08/14/2012 06:33 PM
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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
And also, should a craft make it to orbit, it wouldn't be able to make a retro burn to come home, because the retro rockets won't work up there.

What are all the objects I see flying overhead at night after sunset and before sunrise? Saw many shuttle passes as well, predicted a week or so in advance. Still see the ISS when conditions are right. How are these spacecraft put up there if rockets don't work up there. And how did the Shuttle come home from orbit?

Odd questions, considering you consider all satellites a hoax...like the GPS ones that everyone uses, DirecTV, weather satellites and all the rest...

I think this one is busted.
moonandmarshoax
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08/15/2012 09:59 PM
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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
one of the biggest hoaxes of all time!

rocket propulsion cannot work in space.

you get tricked by being told about newtons third law and how the propellant pushes against the body so therefore (equal opposite) has to push the rocket.

but newtons third law ironically proves this to be false if viewed from the other way round, the propellant cannot push against a vacuum (zero force) so in turn (equal and opposite) applies zero force to the rocket/vehicle itself.


can anyone find me a video of a rocket, firecracker or something similar creating force in a vacuum?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11057845



not wading through the pages of shill-fest (they come out of the woodwork for anything nasa-related)

but did anyone come up with a video of rocket propulsion working in a vacuum? that would be a worthwhile experiment to try and document, wouldn't it?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8597527

i agree wirh you...its a hoax and too many bashers cant think for themselves


no, 10 pages and still no evidence shown, just lots of bashing (you would think there would be loads of videos of these propulsion tests wouldn't you? unless its all BS ;)

science says it works so people question no further and believe what they are told.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13470385
moonandmarshoax
User ID: 21338067
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08/15/2012 10:21 PM
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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
I have another for all these shills who can only blast out
crap taught from the 1 digit grade science book...a rocket will NOT workm
in space...ask these idiots how a parachute is going to work in a near vacuum atmosphere on mars...it cant...no atmosphere..no air resistance...been fighting for 6 days with these nutballs and nobody can show proof...no testing has been done on high altitude parachutes because it cant work...face it nasa and jpl are1. a bunch of liars...and jpl is nothing more than a PR firm to debunk conspiracy theorists...they only are gamer nerds who made a video
simulation of what it WOULD look like with the landing...a bunch of brainwashed idiots...i want to see them in court swear that it happened or provide video of
1. A rocket working in a vacuum
2. A parachute working in air chamber with air pressure of .0022 psi

NASA AND JPL are liars
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 17693083
United States
08/15/2012 11:43 PM
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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
The parachute slowed the descent to around 200mph, and it was 52 feet in diameter, relatively enormous by Earth standards
Yeah, it slowed it some but it certainly didn't function the way a parachute does in Earth's atmosphere. It stabilized the descent, slowed it noticably, but it was the rockets that did the real work.
On Earth, it would be comparable to a small drogue chute in it's function. It wasn't designed to land the spacecraft, just stabilize it for the rockets to do their thing.

I know you don't believe any of it, but this might clarify things for others.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 17693083
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08/16/2012 12:10 AM
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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
Do you have, or use, a GPS unit?

What is the principle behind that, and how does it work? How about tran-oceanic phone calls?

Answer: Satellites in Earth orbit. How did they get there?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 21965794
United States
08/16/2012 12:19 AM
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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
one of the biggest hoaxes of all time!

rocket propulsion cannot work in space.

you get tricked by being told about newtons third law and how the propellant pushes against the body so therefore (equal opposite) has to push the rocket.

but newtons third law ironically proves this to be false if viewed from the other way round, the propellant cannot push against a vacuum (zero force) so in turn (equal and opposite) applies zero force to the rocket/vehicle itself.


can anyone find me a video of a rocket, firecracker or something similar creating force in a vacuum?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11057845


Under this false assumption, there would be no such thing as comets or orbiting satellites.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 21965794
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08/16/2012 12:20 AM
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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
I have another for all these shills who can only blast out
crap taught from the 1 digit grade science book...a rocket will NOT workm
in space...ask these idiots how a parachute is going to work in a near vacuum atmosphere on mars...it cant...no atmosphere..no air resistance...been fighting for 6 days with these nutballs and nobody can show proof...no testing has been done on high altitude parachutes because it cant work...face it nasa and jpl are1. a bunch of liars...and jpl is nothing more than a PR firm to debunk conspiracy theorists...they only are gamer nerds who made a video
simulation of what it WOULD look like with the landing...a bunch of brainwashed idiots...i want to see them in court swear that it happened or provide video of
1. A rocket working in a vacuum
2. A parachute working in air chamber with air pressure of .0022 psi

NASA AND JPL are liars
 Quoting: moonandmarshoax 21338067


All planets have atmospheres. ALL
Passin' Through

User ID: 14422899
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08/16/2012 12:25 AM
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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
Sigh...
You can't push against the vacuum but you can make the fuel push the ship...
Imagine yourself in a chair with wheel, not touching the ground make a strong motion, you will notice you will move.
Dont even DARE thinking it was cause of the air... if it was cause of the air we would be able to fly simply by flapping our arms.
Dunno if this cleared things up as Im not very good with explanations.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9438655


So you are saying it is Wile E. Coyote. When he has a fan and a sail on a skateboard and both are attached to the same vehicle. When the fan blows against the sail he moves forward.
I get it now.
“If Noah’s flood really did occur, what would you expect to find? Billions of dead things, buried in rock layers, laid down by water, all over the earth.” And guess what we find? Billions of dead things, buried in rock layers, laid down by water, all over the earth.
Anonymous Coward
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08/16/2012 04:16 AM
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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
the 'your a loony', 'learn science' shills will be here shortly.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11057845


no not science..physics dumb fuck..i suggest you learn them before spewing whatever garbage pops into your head
Anonymous Coward
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08/16/2012 04:20 AM
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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
the rocket does not push against a vacuum, it pushes against its own burning exhaust.
Anonymous Coward
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08/16/2012 04:31 AM
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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
I have another for all these shills who can only blast out
crap taught from the 1 digit grade science book...a rocket will NOT workm
in space...ask these idiots how a parachute is going to work in a near vacuum atmosphere on mars...it cant...no atmosphere..no air resistance...been fighting for 6 days with these nutballs and nobody can show proof...no testing has been done on high altitude parachutes because it cant work...face it nasa and jpl are1. a bunch of liars...and jpl is nothing more than a PR firm to debunk conspiracy theorists...they only are gamer nerds who made a video
simulation of what it WOULD look like with the landing...a bunch of brainwashed idiots...i want to see them in court swear that it happened or provide video of
1. A rocket working in a vacuum
2. A parachute working in air chamber with air pressure of .0022 psi

NASA AND JPL are liars
 Quoting: moonandmarshoax 21338067


All planets have atmospheres. ALL
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21965794


indeed no matter what atmoshpere there was on a planet, having a parachute would slow it down more than not having one.

the point is to get that little bit of slowing down, even if it is no where near what it would do on earth.
Anonymous Coward
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United Kingdom
08/16/2012 04:24 PM
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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
I find it funny how some people are comparing earth orbit (satelites) and outer space.
Halcyon Dayz, FCD
Contrarian's Contrarian

User ID: 19507663
Netherlands
08/16/2012 04:36 PM

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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
So you are saying it is Wile E. Coyote. When he has a fan and a sail on a skateboard and both are attached to the same vehicle. When the fan blows against the sail he moves forward.
I get it now.
 Quoting: Passin' Through

Wile would go backwards.
The fan would propel the skateboard backward, the sail would be an airbreak slowing it down.

A rocket engine (or motor) is basically an ongoing explosion.
The explosion gasses push in all directions against the walls of the combustion chamber.
There's a hole in the chamber, the gasses won't push at that spot.
Add up all the vectors, and the result will be a force pushing in the direction opposite of the hole.
book
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It rots the mind and blackens the heart.


Hi! My name is Halcyon Dayz and I'm addicted to morans.
fooz

User ID: 1574146
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08/16/2012 04:40 PM

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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
I bet you think the plane wouldn't take off either.
TX mother f**ker that's where I stay!
Anonymous Coward
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08/16/2012 04:42 PM
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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
I would rather believe in the JESUS ...science makes my brian hurt.
Anonymous Coward
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Croatia
08/16/2012 04:44 PM
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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
Do you have, or use, a GPS unit?

What is the principle behind that, and how does it work? How about tran-oceanic phone calls?

Answer: Satellites in Earth orbit. How did they get there?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17693083


Do you understand the form - "EARTH ORBIT"?

Satellites could get there by the rockets pushed from EARTH.

When they come to the end of life EARTH gravity brings them back.

"Rockets" satellites that go further into space are flying just because of the help of planets gravity push, not by the help of huge tanks of fuel (because there are no such tanks) in small satellites - crafts.

and not like this [link to sciencenetlinks.com] chuckle
patrap

User ID: 19588422
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08/16/2012 04:52 PM
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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
America's schools continue to Fail us.

Every action has a opposite and EQUAL reaction.


Sigh
patrap
Anonymous Coward
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Croatia
08/16/2012 04:56 PM
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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
I bet you think the plane wouldn't take off either.
 Quoting: fooz


An aircraft is a vehicle that is able to fly by gaining support from the air, or, in general, the atmosphere of a planet.

another do
Anonymous Coward
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08/16/2012 05:09 PM
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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
Rocket to the moon would be bigger than eiffel tower
Anonymous Coward
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08/16/2012 05:23 PM
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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
SO, according to OPs logic, if I discharged a 12 gauge shotgun in the vacuum of space, it's not going to kick the snot out of my shoulder like on Earth.

OP, do you seriously believe this nonsense??!!!
st.just
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08/16/2012 05:36 PM
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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
So, who's been running the space program? If anyone says NASA you'll not get cookie.
s.j
User ID: 13337221
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08/16/2012 05:40 PM
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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
I have another for all these shills who can only blast out
crap taught from the 1 digit grade science book...a rocket will NOT workm
in space...ask these idiots how a parachute is going to work in a near vacuum atmosphere on mars...it cant...no atmosphere..no air resistance...been fighting for 6 days with these nutballs and nobody can show proof...no testing has been done on high altitude parachutes because it cant work...face it nasa and jpl are1. a bunch of liars...and jpl is nothing more than a PR firm to debunk conspiracy theorists...they only are gamer nerds who made a video
simulation of what it WOULD look like with the landing...a bunch of brainwashed idiots...i want to see them in court swear that it happened or provide video of
1. A rocket working in a vacuum
2. A parachute working in air chamber with air pressure of .0022 psi

NASA AND JPL are liars
 Quoting: moonandmarshoax 21338067


All planets have atmospheres. ALL
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21965794


indeed no matter what atmoshpere there was on a planet, having a parachute would slow it down more than not having one.

the point is to get that little bit of slowing down, even if it is no where near what it would do on earth.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22033686


Not if the parachute and rigging contribute more weight than it and the payload and the atmosphere and gravity were all designed for it to do.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 22101456
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08/16/2012 10:31 PM
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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
Do you have, or use, a GPS unit?

What is the principle behind that, and how does it work? How about tran-oceanic phone calls?

Answer: Satellites in Earth orbit. How did they get there?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17693083


Do you understand the form - "EARTH ORBIT"?

Satellites could get there by the rockets pushed from EARTH.

When they come to the end of life EARTH gravity brings them back.

"Rockets" satellites that go further into space are flying just because of the help of planets gravity push, not by the help of huge tanks of fuel (because there are no such tanks) in small satellites - crafts.

and not like this [link to sciencenetlinks.com] chuckle
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22058838


Take a satellite and upper stage booster in Earth orbit. The Mission Planners want to take this satellite from a 100 mile high orbit up to geosynchronous orbit (around 23,000 miles up). How does it get there? It fires it's engine, raising the opposite side of the orbit to 24k. Then, after travelling the half orbit to that 24k altitude, it fires again to raise the low end of the orbit...bingo, geosynch orbit...with the burns occuring away from the Earth in a vaccuum.
That's how spaceships work, be it Earth orbit or a million miles out...action/reaction. Gravity doesn't push, it pulls.

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