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Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space

 
DUCM900

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08/23/2012 02:15 PM

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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
For you? One of the most ignorant people about space I have ever seen? It was quite real, by the way...
[link to home.freeuk.com]
Of course you think it was ridiculous, you're laughably ignorant about space.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro



You shill have just sell your soul for this stupid stuff, that's really incredible.

Last Edited by IWASTHERE on 08/23/2012 02:30 PM
To live is to believe in the power of dreams.
To dream is to believe in the power of love.
To love is to believe in yourself.

Luca 21:28 "Ma quando queste cose cominceranno ad accadere, guardate in alto e alzate i vostri sguardi, perché la vostra liberazione è vicina".
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08/23/2012 02:16 PM

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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
For you? One of the most ignorant people about space I have ever seen? It was quite real, by the way...
[link to home.freeuk.com]
Of course you think it was ridiculous, you're laughably ignorant about space.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro



You shill have just sell you soul for this stupid stuff, that's really incredible.
 Quoting: DUCM900

Sorry, wrong link, here you go:
[link to home.freeuk.com]
I suppose all those amateurs like Maurice are "shills" too for seeing it for themselves...
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DUCM900

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08/23/2012 02:22 PM

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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
norespect
To live is to believe in the power of dreams.
To dream is to believe in the power of love.
To love is to believe in yourself.

Luca 21:28 "Ma quando queste cose cominceranno ad accadere, guardate in alto e alzate i vostri sguardi, perché la vostra liberazione è vicina".
Anonymous Coward
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08/23/2012 02:28 PM
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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
to expand and clarify on the last question--

the maximum exhaust velocities are:

Propellant mix - Effective exhaust velocity (m/s)
liquid oxygen/liquid hydrogen - 4462 (16,063km/h)
liquid oxygen/kerosene (RP-1) - 3510
nitrogen tetroxide/hydrazine - 3369

[link to en.wikipedia.org]


"The delta-v needed to achieve low earth orbit starts around 9.4km/s [33,840km/h]".
[link to en.wikipedia.org]

So the wheels spin at 30km/h but the car travels at 60km/h???

Rocket science -- like real science but without the pesky facts.

afro
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22433808


You're an idiot. A complete idiot. Let's say a rocket is traveling at a ground-relative velocity of 33,840 km/hr (that's faster than your velocity in low earth orbit, the extra delta-V is needed to get you above the atmosphere, but for the sake of the hypothetical let's go with it) and burns in a retrograde direction with an exhaust velocity of 16,063 km/hr. What is the ground-relative velocity of the exhaust at the beginning of the burn? What is the velocity of the exhaust relative to the rocket? Go on, answer these questions.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


Let's say you're a (not very) useful idiot.

A rocket cannot travel faster than the maximum exhaust velocity.

A 16,063 km/h exhaust CANNOT propel a rocket through the atmosphere at 33,840 km/h.

Period.

afro
DUCM900

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08/23/2012 02:33 PM

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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
Anonymous Coward 22433808

Do you think they used other technology to put satellites in the orbit or not?

Last Edited by IWASTHERE on 08/23/2012 02:33 PM
To live is to believe in the power of dreams.
To dream is to believe in the power of love.
To love is to believe in yourself.

Luca 21:28 "Ma quando queste cose cominceranno ad accadere, guardate in alto e alzate i vostri sguardi, perché la vostra liberazione è vicina".
Anonymous Coward
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08/23/2012 02:38 PM
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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
to expand and clarify on the last question--

the maximum exhaust velocities are:

Propellant mix - Effective exhaust velocity (m/s)
liquid oxygen/liquid hydrogen - 4462 (16,063km/h)
liquid oxygen/kerosene (RP-1) - 3510
nitrogen tetroxide/hydrazine - 3369

[link to en.wikipedia.org]


"The delta-v needed to achieve low earth orbit starts around 9.4km/s [33,840km/h]".
[link to en.wikipedia.org]

So the wheels spin at 30km/h but the car travels at 60km/h???

Rocket science -- like real science but without the pesky facts.

afro
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22433808


You're an idiot. A complete idiot. Let's say a rocket is traveling at a ground-relative velocity of 33,840 km/hr (that's faster than your velocity in low earth orbit, the extra delta-V is needed to get you above the atmosphere, but for the sake of the hypothetical let's go with it) and burns in a retrograde direction with an exhaust velocity of 16,063 km/hr. What is the ground-relative velocity of the exhaust at the beginning of the burn? What is the velocity of the exhaust relative to the rocket? Go on, answer these questions.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


Let's say you're a (not very) useful idiot.

A rocket cannot travel faster than the maximum exhaust velocity.

A 16,063 km/h exhaust CANNOT propel a rocket through the atmosphere at 33,840 km/h.

Period.

afro
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22433808



Are you kidding me? Get off my case, ignoramus kid!

Tsiolkovsky rocket equation (from wikipedia, the only source that you handle, and badly):

"The equation relates the delta-v (the maximum change of speed of the rocket if no other external forces act) with the effective exhaust velocity and the initial and final mass of a rocket (or other reaction engine)."

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

A tip:

1. Go to the school.
2. Study the basics: mathematics, chemistry, and physics.
3. Develop critical thinking skills, and learn to search about a topic.
4. After all that, come here and waste your free time talking about woo woo rocketry.

Period.

angryface
nomuse (not logged in)
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08/23/2012 03:10 PM
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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
to expand and clarify on the last question--

the maximum exhaust velocities are:

Propellant mix - Effective exhaust velocity (m/s)
liquid oxygen/liquid hydrogen - 4462 (16,063km/h)
liquid oxygen/kerosene (RP-1) - 3510
nitrogen tetroxide/hydrazine - 3369

[link to en.wikipedia.org]


"The delta-v needed to achieve low earth orbit starts around 9.4km/s [33,840km/h]".
[link to en.wikipedia.org]

So the wheels spin at 30km/h but the car travels at 60km/h???

Rocket science -- like real science but without the pesky facts.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22433808


Wheels DON'T spin at MPH -- they spin at RPM. The wheels of a car are in intimate connection with the road.

Now change the scenario; substitute a paddle-wheel boat. The paddle goes SLOWER than the boat.

Now let's change up for a prop-driven boat. What is the link between the propeller speed (in RPM) and the boat's forward speed?


But, alas, the conditions of a rocket are simpler still. What is thrust velocity? It is the velocity at which the propellant leaves the exhaust bell. Which is itself in motion.

Good thing, too. Imagine you were flying an fighter plane moving faster than a speeding bullet. Then you fire your guns. The velocity of the plane is added to the muzzle velocity -- otherwise, fighter pilots would shoot themselves down!
nomuse (not logged in)
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08/23/2012 03:15 PM
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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
The number of rockets is irrelevant to this particular issue.

The issue is the MAXIMUM EXHAUST VELOCITY vs VELOCITY REQUIRED FOR LEO (escape velocity).

A rocket cannot travel faster than its own exhaust.


 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22433808


But...the "Shuttle" does NOT make it to orbital velocity.

(Which isn't the same as escape velocity, but never mind).


What arrives at the ISS is the Shuttle ORBITER. What happened to the big orange tank and the two giant solid-state rockets? They got left behind long ago.

In short, the shuttle SYSTEM delivers payload (the shuttle ORBITER) that is larger than the available delta-V of the propellant. Because the larger part of the MASS that started out on the launch pad never goes anywhere near space.



What you seem to be describing here, if it were a firearm, is some really weird rifle that throws cartridge, bolt, pin and receiver down range along with the bullet. Such a gun would go a couple of feet at best!
Anonymous Coward
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08/23/2012 03:24 PM
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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
Too bad we have to deal with batshit crazy people on this site.

Read it and weep.

F(1,2) = -F(2,1)
DUCM900

User ID: 22454442
Italy
08/23/2012 03:28 PM

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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
Too bad we have to deal with batshit crazy people on this site.

Read it and weep.

F(1,2) = -F(2,1)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3491129


???

However the question for you is

Does Space Shuttle's rokets produces flame on space?

YES or NO
To live is to believe in the power of dreams.
To dream is to believe in the power of love.
To love is to believe in yourself.

Luca 21:28 "Ma quando queste cose cominceranno ad accadere, guardate in alto e alzate i vostri sguardi, perché la vostra liberazione è vicina".
Anonymous Coward
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08/23/2012 03:35 PM
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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
Too bad we have to deal with batshit crazy people on this site.

Read it and weep.

F(1,2) = -F(2,1)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3491129


???

However the question for you is

Does Space Shuttle's rokets produces flame on space?

YES or NO
 Quoting: DUCM900


whats a roket?
DUCM900

User ID: 22454442
Italy
08/23/2012 03:38 PM

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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
whats a roket?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1454359


A component of your useless ass?

norespect
To live is to believe in the power of dreams.
To dream is to believe in the power of love.
To love is to believe in yourself.

Luca 21:28 "Ma quando queste cose cominceranno ad accadere, guardate in alto e alzate i vostri sguardi, perché la vostra liberazione è vicina".
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 3491129
United States
08/23/2012 03:38 PM
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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
Too bad we have to deal with batshit crazy people on this site.

Read it and weep.

F(1,2) = -F(2,1)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3491129


???

However the question for you is

Does Space Shuttle's rokets produces flame on space?

YES or NO
 Quoting: DUCM900


Your question isn't a yes or no proposition.

If you are talking Semantics, then no a flame is not produced because no air is burning externally from the fire creating a licking flame

Rockets are a chemical explosion. All the chemicals needed to produce the explosion are included in the rocket. They don't need air from an external source to "burn". Fire is different in space as the reaction is encapsulated inside the chemicals expelled by the equipment, but chemicals can still react and give off energy without air.
Dr. AstroModerator
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08/23/2012 03:39 PM

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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
to expand and clarify on the last question--

the maximum exhaust velocities are:

Propellant mix - Effective exhaust velocity (m/s)
liquid oxygen/liquid hydrogen - 4462 (16,063km/h)
liquid oxygen/kerosene (RP-1) - 3510
nitrogen tetroxide/hydrazine - 3369

[link to en.wikipedia.org]


"The delta-v needed to achieve low earth orbit starts around 9.4km/s [33,840km/h]".
[link to en.wikipedia.org]

So the wheels spin at 30km/h but the car travels at 60km/h???

Rocket science -- like real science but without the pesky facts.

afro
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22433808


You're an idiot. A complete idiot. Let's say a rocket is traveling at a ground-relative velocity of 33,840 km/hr (that's faster than your velocity in low earth orbit, the extra delta-V is needed to get you above the atmosphere, but for the sake of the hypothetical let's go with it) and burns in a retrograde direction with an exhaust velocity of 16,063 km/hr. What is the ground-relative velocity of the exhaust at the beginning of the burn? What is the velocity of the exhaust relative to the rocket? Go on, answer these questions.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


Let's say you're a (not very) useful idiot.

A rocket cannot travel faster than the maximum exhaust velocity.

A 16,063 km/h exhaust CANNOT propel a rocket through the atmosphere at 33,840 km/h.

Period.

afro
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22433808


Answer the questions I asked you.
astrobanner2
Dr. AstroModerator
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08/23/2012 03:40 PM

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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
to expand and clarify on the last question--

the maximum exhaust velocities are:

Propellant mix - Effective exhaust velocity (m/s)
liquid oxygen/liquid hydrogen - 4462 (16,063km/h)
liquid oxygen/kerosene (RP-1) - 3510
nitrogen tetroxide/hydrazine - 3369

[link to en.wikipedia.org]


"The delta-v needed to achieve low earth orbit starts around 9.4km/s [33,840km/h]".
[link to en.wikipedia.org]

So the wheels spin at 30km/h but the car travels at 60km/h???

Rocket science -- like real science but without the pesky facts.

afro
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22433808


You're an idiot. A complete idiot. Let's say a rocket is traveling at a ground-relative velocity of 33,840 km/hr (that's faster than your velocity in low earth orbit, the extra delta-V is needed to get you above the atmosphere, but for the sake of the hypothetical let's go with it) and burns in a retrograde direction with an exhaust velocity of 16,063 km/hr. What is the ground-relative velocity of the exhaust at the beginning of the burn? What is the velocity of the exhaust relative to the rocket? Go on, answer these questions.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


Let's say you're a (not very) useful idiot.

A rocket cannot travel faster than the maximum exhaust velocity.

A 16,063 km/h exhaust CANNOT propel a rocket through the atmosphere at 33,840 km/h.

Period.

afro
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22433808



Are you kidding me? Get off my case, ignoramus kid!

Tsiolkovsky rocket equation (from wikipedia, the only source that you handle, and badly):

"The equation relates the delta-v (the maximum change of speed of the rocket if no other external forces act) with the effective exhaust velocity and the initial and final mass of a rocket (or other reaction engine)."

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

A tip:

1. Go to the school.
2. Study the basics: mathematics, chemistry, and physics.
3. Develop critical thinking skills, and learn to search about a topic.
4. After all that, come here and waste your free time talking about woo woo rocketry.

Period.

angryface
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22472222


^This
astrobanner2
DUCM900

User ID: 22454442
Italy
08/23/2012 03:47 PM

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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
Too bad we have to deal with batshit crazy people on this site.

Read it and weep.

F(1,2) = -F(2,1)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3491129


???

However the question for you is

Does Space Shuttle's rokets produces flame on space?

YES or NO
 Quoting: DUCM900


Your question isn't a yes or no proposition.

If you are talking Semantics, then no a flame is not produced because no air is burning externally from the fire creating a licking flame

Rockets are a chemical explosion. All the chemicals needed to produce the explosion are included in the rocket. They don't need air from an external source to "burn". Fire is different in space as the reaction is encapsulated inside the chemicals expelled by the equipment, but chemicals can still react and give off energy without air.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3491129


The question was not for you, however you dont answer at all. Because the possible answers are 2

YES or NO

there are no other scenario in space with those propellants. Period.

Last Edited by IWASTHERE on 08/23/2012 04:09 PM
To live is to believe in the power of dreams.
To dream is to believe in the power of love.
To love is to believe in yourself.

Luca 21:28 "Ma quando queste cose cominceranno ad accadere, guardate in alto e alzate i vostri sguardi, perché la vostra liberazione è vicina".
BoxerLvr

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United States
08/23/2012 03:57 PM
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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
Too bad we have to deal with batshit crazy people on this site.

Read it and weep.

F(1,2) = -F(2,1)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3491129


???

However the question for you is

Does Space Shuttle's rokets produces flame on space?

YES or NO
 Quoting: DUCM900


Your question isn't a yes or no proposition.

If you are talking Semantics, then no a flame is not produced because no air is burning externally from the fire creating a licking flame

Rockets are a chemical explosion. All the chemicals needed to produce the explosion are included in the rocket. They don't need air from an external source to "burn". Fire is different in space as the reaction is encapsulated inside the chemicals expelled by the equipment, but chemicals can still react and give off energy without air.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3491129


The question was not for you, however you dont answer at all. Because the possible answers are 2

YES or NO

there are no other scenario in space with those propellers. Period.
 Quoting: DUCM900




Spacecraft don't use propellers!!!

cruise
It is precisely because it is fashionable for Americans to know no science, even though they may be well educated otherwise, that they so easily fall prey to nonsense. They thus become part of the armies of the night, the purveyors of nitwittery, the retailers of intellectual junk food, the feeders on mental cardboard, for their ignorance keeps them from distinguishing nectar from sewage. — Isaac Asimov
nomuse (not logged in)
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08/23/2012 03:57 PM
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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
The question was not for you, however you dont answer at all. Because the possible answers are 2

YES or NO

there are no other scenario in space with those propellers. Period.
 Quoting: DUCM900


Does a crossbow giraffe?

Answer yes or no, please -- it has to be one or the other.



Nonsense. Your question is nonsense, your understanding is wrong, therefore a simple answer is at best misleading.
Saddletramp
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08/23/2012 04:02 PM

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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
Moontards...

jerkit
"And how can a man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods..." ~ Horatius

"Because he told the truth, and once you've heard the truth, everything else is just cheap whiskey..."
DUCM900

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Italy
08/23/2012 04:05 PM

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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
Spacecraft don't use propellers!!!

cruise
 Quoting: BoxerLvr



Sorry I mean: propellant in Italian: propellente
To live is to believe in the power of dreams.
To dream is to believe in the power of love.
To love is to believe in yourself.

Luca 21:28 "Ma quando queste cose cominceranno ad accadere, guardate in alto e alzate i vostri sguardi, perché la vostra liberazione è vicina".
Anonymous Coward
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08/23/2012 04:07 PM
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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
to expand and clarify on the last question--

the maximum exhaust velocities are:

Propellant mix - Effective exhaust velocity (m/s)
liquid oxygen/liquid hydrogen - 4462 (16,063km/h)
liquid oxygen/kerosene (RP-1) - 3510
nitrogen tetroxide/hydrazine - 3369

[link to en.wikipedia.org]


"The delta-v needed to achieve low earth orbit starts around 9.4km/s [33,840km/h]".
[link to en.wikipedia.org]

So the wheels spin at 30km/h but the car travels at 60km/h???

Rocket science -- like real science but without the pesky facts.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22433808


Wheels DON'T spin at MPH -- they spin at RPM. The wheels of a car are in intimate connection with the road.

Now change the scenario; substitute a paddle-wheel boat. The paddle goes SLOWER than the boat.

Now let's change up for a prop-driven boat. What is the link between the propeller speed (in RPM) and the boat's forward speed?


But, alas, the conditions of a rocket are simpler still. What is thrust velocity? It is the velocity at which the propellant leaves the exhaust bell. Which is itself in motion.

Good thing, too. Imagine you were flying an fighter plane moving faster than a speeding bullet. Then you fire your guns. The velocity of the plane is added to the muzzle velocity -- otherwise, fighter pilots would shoot themselves down!
 Quoting: nomuse (not logged in) 2380183


"Wheels DON'T spin at MPH -- they spin at RPM."
Brilliant..and when the the surface of the tire moves (spins)at the speed of the car, in this example, 30 km/h, the car cannot travel 60 km/h.

The propeller example is utterly irrelevant.

The paddle example is completely incorrect. The paddle wheels circumference moves at or above the speed of the boat, never below. If the paddle went slower, it would have a braking effect on the boat.

As to the bullet, its velocity is constantly decreasing after being fired and its propulsion is derived from being trapped between the escaping gas and the end of the barrel; there is no propelling force exerted upon the bullet after it leaves the barrel. The bullet is propelled as the exploding gas 'pushes off' the far more massive, speeding aircraft ..and then it (the bullet) immediately begins decelerating.

Unlike a bullet, a rocket is being 'pushed' by its escaping exhaust and can maintain or even increase its velocity (unlike the decelerating bullet) but this velocity can be no greater than that of its exhaust.

The rocket boys seem to think that just because the decreasing mass associated with the burning fuel allows the rocket to accelerate (gain velocity as opposed to maintaining a constant velocity) that--somehow - this magically allows the rocket to accelerate to a velocity greater than that of its exhaust-- which is typical NASA nonsense. It can accelerate, but not beyond the velocity of its own exhaust. Acceleration and maximum velocity are apples and oranges.
DUCM900

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08/23/2012 04:08 PM

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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
Does a crossbow giraffe?

Answer yes or no, please -- it has to be one or the other.


Nonsense. Your question is nonsense, your understanding is wrong, therefore a simple answer is at best misleading.
 Quoting: nomuse (not logged in) 2380183


But SUTF, super troll
To live is to believe in the power of dreams.
To dream is to believe in the power of love.
To love is to believe in yourself.

Luca 21:28 "Ma quando queste cose cominceranno ad accadere, guardate in alto e alzate i vostri sguardi, perché la vostra liberazione è vicina".
Dr. AstroModerator
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08/23/2012 04:09 PM

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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
Impulse momentum, High-school physics;

Force = (change in momentum)/(time interval)
Thrust = (Exhaust Speed)*(Rate of change of Rocket's Mass)

As you can see the thrust generated is independent from the interaction of the propellent with the surrounding environment.

This video illustrates the principle behind rocket propulsion and how it is an application of momentum conservation.


 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22471929


Bump for the idiots, since this already gives away the answer.
astrobanner2
DUCM900

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08/23/2012 04:16 PM

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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
to expand and clarify on the last question--

the maximum exhaust velocities are:

Propellant mix - Effective exhaust velocity (m/s)
liquid oxygen/liquid hydrogen - 4462 (16,063km/h)
liquid oxygen/kerosene (RP-1) - 3510
nitrogen tetroxide/hydrazine - 3369

[link to en.wikipedia.org]


"The delta-v needed to achieve low earth orbit starts around 9.4km/s [33,840km/h]".
[link to en.wikipedia.org]

So the wheels spin at 30km/h but the car travels at 60km/h???

Rocket science -- like real science but without the pesky facts.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22433808


Wheels DON'T spin at MPH -- they spin at RPM. The wheels of a car are in intimate connection with the road.

Now change the scenario; substitute a paddle-wheel boat. The paddle goes SLOWER than the boat.

Now let's change up for a prop-driven boat. What is the link between the propeller speed (in RPM) and the boat's forward speed?


But, alas, the conditions of a rocket are simpler still. What is thrust velocity? It is the velocity at which the propellant leaves the exhaust bell. Which is itself in motion.

Good thing, too. Imagine you were flying an fighter plane moving faster than a speeding bullet. Then you fire your guns. The velocity of the plane is added to the muzzle velocity -- otherwise, fighter pilots would shoot themselves down!
 Quoting: nomuse (not logged in) 2380183


"Wheels DON'T spin at MPH -- they spin at RPM."
Brilliant..and when the the surface of the tire moves (spins)at the speed of the car, in this example, 30 km/h, the car cannot travel 60 km/h.

The propeller example is utterly irrelevant.

The paddle example is completely incorrect. The paddle wheels circumference moves at or above the speed of the boat, never below. If the paddle went slower, it would have a braking effect on the boat.

As to the bullet, its velocity is constantly decreasing after being fired and its propulsion is derived from being trapped between the escaping gas and the end of the barrel; there is no propelling force exerted upon the bullet after it leaves the barrel. The bullet is propelled as the exploding gas 'pushes off' the far more massive, speeding aircraft ..and then it (the bullet) immediately begins decelerating.

Unlike a bullet, a rocket is being 'pushed' by its escaping exhaust and can maintain or even increase its velocity (unlike the decelerating bullet) but this velocity can be no greater than that of its exhaust.

The rocket boys seem to think that just because the decreasing mass associated with the burning fuel allows the rocket to accelerate (gain velocity as opposed to maintaining a constant velocity) that--somehow - this magically allows the rocket to accelerate to a velocity greater than that of its exhaust-- which is typical NASA nonsense. It can accelerate, but not beyond the velocity of its own exhaust. Acceleration and maximum velocity are apples and oranges.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22433808


OK, so with which technology / propellent did they use to go in space (if they did).
To live is to believe in the power of dreams.
To dream is to believe in the power of love.
To love is to believe in yourself.

Luca 21:28 "Ma quando queste cose cominceranno ad accadere, guardate in alto e alzate i vostri sguardi, perché la vostra liberazione è vicina".
EvenT6HorizoN

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08/23/2012 04:20 PM
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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
to expand and clarify on the last question--

the maximum exhaust velocities are:

Propellant mix - Effective exhaust velocity (m/s)
liquid oxygen/liquid hydrogen - 4462 (16,063km/h)
liquid oxygen/kerosene (RP-1) - 3510
nitrogen tetroxide/hydrazine - 3369

[link to en.wikipedia.org]


"The delta-v needed to achieve low earth orbit starts around 9.4km/s [33,840km/h]".
[link to en.wikipedia.org]

So the wheels spin at 30km/h but the car travels at 60km/h???

Rocket science -- like real science but without the pesky facts.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22433808


Wheels DON'T spin at MPH -- they spin at RPM. The wheels of a car are in intimate connection with the road.

Now change the scenario; substitute a paddle-wheel boat. The paddle goes SLOWER than the boat.

Now let's change up for a prop-driven boat. What is the link between the propeller speed (in RPM) and the boat's forward speed?


But, alas, the conditions of a rocket are simpler still. What is thrust velocity? It is the velocity at which the propellant leaves the exhaust bell. Which is itself in motion.

Good thing, too. Imagine you were flying an fighter plane moving faster than a speeding bullet. Then you fire your guns. The velocity of the plane is added to the muzzle velocity -- otherwise, fighter pilots would shoot themselves down!
 Quoting: nomuse (not logged in) 2380183


"Wheels DON'T spin at MPH -- they spin at RPM."
Brilliant..and when the the surface of the tire moves (spins)at the speed of the car, in this example, 30 km/h, the car cannot travel 60 km/h.

The propeller example is utterly irrelevant.

The paddle example is completely incorrect. The paddle wheels circumference moves at or above the speed of the boat, never below. If the paddle went slower, it would have a braking effect on the boat.

As to the bullet, its velocity is constantly decreasing after being fired and its propulsion is derived from being trapped between the escaping gas and the end of the barrel; there is no propelling force exerted upon the bullet after it leaves the barrel. The bullet is propelled as the exploding gas 'pushes off' the far more massive, speeding aircraft ..and then it (the bullet) immediately begins decelerating.

Unlike a bullet, a rocket is being 'pushed' by its escaping exhaust and can maintain or even increase its velocity (unlike the decelerating bullet) but this velocity can be no greater than that of its exhaust.

The rocket boys seem to think that just because the decreasing mass associated with the burning fuel allows the rocket to accelerate (gain velocity as opposed to maintaining a constant velocity) that--somehow - this magically allows the rocket to accelerate to a velocity greater than that of its exhaust-- which is typical NASA nonsense. It can accelerate, but not beyond the velocity of its own exhaust. Acceleration and maximum velocity are apples and oranges.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22433808


OK, so with which technology / propellent did they use to go in space (if they did).
 Quoting: DUCM900


Liquid Hydrogen, if I am not mistaken?
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08/23/2012 04:22 PM
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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
The propellant pushes against the mass of the rocket Im pretty sure.

But Ive never been in space so I cant say for sure lol
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08/23/2012 04:31 PM

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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
...


Wheels DON'T spin at MPH -- they spin at RPM. The wheels of a car are in intimate connection with the road.

Now change the scenario; substitute a paddle-wheel boat. The paddle goes SLOWER than the boat.

Now let's change up for a prop-driven boat. What is the link between the propeller speed (in RPM) and the boat's forward speed?


But, alas, the conditions of a rocket are simpler still. What is thrust velocity? It is the velocity at which the propellant leaves the exhaust bell. Which is itself in motion.

Good thing, too. Imagine you were flying an fighter plane moving faster than a speeding bullet. Then you fire your guns. The velocity of the plane is added to the muzzle velocity -- otherwise, fighter pilots would shoot themselves down!
 Quoting: nomuse (not logged in) 2380183


"Wheels DON'T spin at MPH -- they spin at RPM."
Brilliant..and when the the surface of the tire moves (spins)at the speed of the car, in this example, 30 km/h, the car cannot travel 60 km/h.

The propeller example is utterly irrelevant.

The paddle example is completely incorrect. The paddle wheels circumference moves at or above the speed of the boat, never below. If the paddle went slower, it would have a braking effect on the boat.

As to the bullet, its velocity is constantly decreasing after being fired and its propulsion is derived from being trapped between the escaping gas and the end of the barrel; there is no propelling force exerted upon the bullet after it leaves the barrel. The bullet is propelled as the exploding gas 'pushes off' the far more massive, speeding aircraft ..and then it (the bullet) immediately begins decelerating.

Unlike a bullet, a rocket is being 'pushed' by its escaping exhaust and can maintain or even increase its velocity (unlike the decelerating bullet) but this velocity can be no greater than that of its exhaust.

The rocket boys seem to think that just because the decreasing mass associated with the burning fuel allows the rocket to accelerate (gain velocity as opposed to maintaining a constant velocity) that--somehow - this magically allows the rocket to accelerate to a velocity greater than that of its exhaust-- which is typical NASA nonsense. It can accelerate, but not beyond the velocity of its own exhaust. Acceleration and maximum velocity are apples and oranges.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22433808


OK, so with which technology / propellent did they use to go in space (if they did).
 Quoting: DUCM900


Liquid Hydrogen, if I am not mistaken?
 Quoting: EvenT6HorizoN


Yes but you did disagree:

liquid oxygen/liquid hydrogen - 4462 (16,063km/h)

so what?
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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
but this velocity can be no greater than that of its exhaust.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22433808

Wrong. This is basic physics, the Tsiolkovsky rocket equation. You can sit there and deny reality all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that you're wrong.
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08/23/2012 04:37 PM
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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
...


"Wheels DON'T spin at MPH -- they spin at RPM."
Brilliant..and when the the surface of the tire moves (spins)at the speed of the car, in this example, 30 km/h, the car cannot travel 60 km/h.

The propeller example is utterly irrelevant.

The paddle example is completely incorrect. The paddle wheels circumference moves at or above the speed of the boat, never below. If the paddle went slower, it would have a braking effect on the boat.

As to the bullet, its velocity is constantly decreasing after being fired and its propulsion is derived from being trapped between the escaping gas and the end of the barrel; there is no propelling force exerted upon the bullet after it leaves the barrel. The bullet is propelled as the exploding gas 'pushes off' the far more massive, speeding aircraft ..and then it (the bullet) immediately begins decelerating.

Unlike a bullet, a rocket is being 'pushed' by its escaping exhaust and can maintain or even increase its velocity (unlike the decelerating bullet) but this velocity can be no greater than that of its exhaust.

The rocket boys seem to think that just because the decreasing mass associated with the burning fuel allows the rocket to accelerate (gain velocity as opposed to maintaining a constant velocity) that--somehow - this magically allows the rocket to accelerate to a velocity greater than that of its exhaust-- which is typical NASA nonsense. It can accelerate, but not beyond the velocity of its own exhaust. Acceleration and maximum velocity are apples and oranges.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22433808


OK, so with which technology / propellent did they use to go in space (if they did).
 Quoting: DUCM900


Liquid Hydrogen, if I am not mistaken?
 Quoting: EvenT6HorizoN


Yes but you did disagree:

liquid oxygen/liquid hydrogen - 4462 (16,063km/h)

so what?
 Quoting: DUCM900


I disagree with this thread, yes.
"I collapsed a lung, screaming at the face of ignorance. I fell victim to the excuse of hatered." - Crater

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" - Voltaire

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08/23/2012 04:43 PM
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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
Impulse momentum, High-school physics;

Force = (change in momentum)/(time interval)
Thrust = (Exhaust Speed)*(Rate of change of Rocket's Mass)

As you can see the thrust generated is independent from the interaction of the propellent with the surrounding environment.

This video illustrates the principle behind rocket propulsion and how it is an application of momentum conservation.


 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22471929


Bump for the idiots, since this already gives away the answer.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


Rocket boys and their videos. If it's in a video (with a real professor and a table and everything!) it must be true, right?

"As you can the the thrust generated is independent from the interaction of the propellent with the surrounding environment."

What??? We see no such thing.
Were it so, what would be the function of a rocket nozzle?
And why all the effort to develop "altitude compensating nozzles" if, as you claim, the thrust is "independent from the interaction of the propellent with the surrounding environment"?

Try again.

And for the record, the velocity of experimental vehicle shown in the video most certainly did not exceed that of its exhaust velocity.

You have confused mathematical formulas with reality.


Good luck with that.