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Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space

 
Anonymous Coward
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08/23/2012 11:15 PM
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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
there problem
Anonymous Coward
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08/23/2012 11:17 PM
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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
how about accellerating horizontally vs vertically? A circular orbit is basically travelling horizontal to the ground, and the accelleration/energy imparted on the craft acts in that direction. It adds energy to the orbit, be it 1 pound of thrust or 25000 pounds...
Any force applied will energy to the orbit. (if applied in a prograde direction). The opposite if retrograde.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22499030


Orbit? FFS, mate.

Orbit is where the rocket boys a trying to GET with this nonsense.

Their magic formula has a payload traveling twice as fast as the rocket exhaust while encountering resisting forces.

afro
Superheavyweight
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08/23/2012 11:17 PM
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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
It's not zero zero force though.... it's of a standard probably = 10.

The rocket is pushing against something.
Superheavyweight
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08/23/2012 11:18 PM
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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
Anonymous Coward
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08/23/2012 11:22 PM
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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
how about accellerating horizontally vs vertically? A circular orbit is basically travelling horizontal to the ground, and the accelleration/energy imparted on the craft acts in that direction. It adds energy to the orbit, be it 1 pound of thrust or 25000 pounds...
Any force applied will energy to the orbit. (if applied in a prograde direction). The opposite if retrograde.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22499030


Orbit? FFS, mate.

Orbit is where the rocket boys a trying to GET with this nonsense.

Their magic formula has a payload traveling twice as fast as the rocket exhaust while encountering resisting forces.

afro
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22433808


what is the quantity of the resisting force at 100 miles up? 80 miles?
Superheavyweight
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08/23/2012 11:22 PM
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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
Superheavyweight
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08/23/2012 11:31 PM
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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
The black space particle creates the drag speed for light.

Imagine being blinded by white space and then seeing a bright shadow in the distance.
Superheavyweight
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08/23/2012 11:31 PM
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Superheavyweight
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08/23/2012 11:43 PM
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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
(It is technically the dark energy/matter and not the black gravitons in case you wanna get into a debate)
Superheavyweight
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08/23/2012 11:44 PM
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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
That gives the weight "my worth in gold".
Superheavyweight
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08/23/2012 11:45 PM
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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
nomuse (not logged in)
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08/23/2012 11:45 PM
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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
"The exhaust velocity of the propellant x the propellant mass IS the Mv of the rocket motor."???

Absurd.

This "formula" does not, in any way, factor in the non-propellant mass of the 'stage' or the payload (thus theoretically infinite per your formula). That bird won't fly.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22433808


Which I pointed out in my very next paragraph.

Except that, although the Ideal Rocket Equation will show you what a vehicle with a ratio of payload to lift-off mass will do, the truism is still that old "equal and opposite" reaction; MV = MV. If you perform a perfect momentum transfer from 1 kg of propellant moving at 10 m/s to a vehicle massing 10 kg, it will gain 1 m/s.




Of course the larger absurdity it that any payload can be propelled upward faster than the velocity of it's own exhaust. Except for this exhausting gas, there are no additional 'assisting forces' acting upon the payload to increase it's velocity (the 'resisting forces' - drag and gravity - remain, though they are said to diminish, but not abate, with altitude).

The payload cannot be propelled upward a velocity exceeding that of the exhausting gas.

Blinded by science?

Wake up.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22433808


Here's a mental exercise that may help.

How fast can I (a human being on the surface of the Earth) run?

Call it 20 KPH for a good sprinting pace. But what is that in reference to? The Universe? Hardly!

The Earth is in motion. The rotational velocity at the equator is over 1,600 KPH. I'm not going to bother with taking the cosine of my latitude just for this so call it a bit over 1,000 KPH where I am.

So...how fast can I run if I run East? Is it faster than if I run West?

What if I run in an airplane? A 757 airliner has a cruising speed of around 860 KPH. Since I run quite a bit slower than that, your logic would tell you that no matter how fast I run I can not possibly get to the front of the plane. Fortunately, there are also bathrooms in the tail.

Now let's make this even more interesting. I manage to sneak a gun past the TSA (easy -- they are far more interested in people with nail clippers and more than 2 oz of shampoo.)

The average muzzle velocity of small handguns works out to 820 KPH. Which means if I am going to hijack the airliner, I have to act before it reaches cruise altitude -- otherwise my bullet will never catch up with the front of the plane!

(In fact, by your logic, they will in fact travel BACKWARDS at roughly twice the speed I am capable of sprinting.)
Anonymous Coward
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08/23/2012 11:58 PM
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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
"The exhaust velocity of the propellant x the propellant mass IS the Mv of the rocket motor."???

Absurd.

This "formula" does not, in any way, factor in the non-propellant mass of the 'stage' or the payload (thus theoretically infinite per your formula). That bird won't fly.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22433808


Which I pointed out in my very next paragraph.

Except that, although the Ideal Rocket Equation will show you what a vehicle with a ratio of payload to lift-off mass will do, the truism is still that old "equal and opposite" reaction; MV = MV. If you perform a perfect momentum transfer from 1 kg of propellant moving at 10 m/s to a vehicle massing 10 kg, it will gain 1 m/s.




Of course the larger absurdity it that any payload can be propelled upward faster than the velocity of it's own exhaust. Except for this exhausting gas, there are no additional 'assisting forces' acting upon the payload to increase it's velocity (the 'resisting forces' - drag and gravity - remain, though they are said to diminish, but not abate, with altitude).

The payload cannot be propelled upward a velocity exceeding that of the exhausting gas.

Blinded by science?

Wake up.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22433808


Here's a mental exercise that may help.

How fast can I (a human being on the surface of the Earth) run?

Call it 20 KPH for a good sprinting pace. But what is that in reference to? The Universe? Hardly!

The Earth is in motion. The rotational velocity at the equator is over 1,600 KPH. I'm not going to bother with taking the cosine of my latitude just for this so call it a bit over 1,000 KPH where I am.

So...how fast can I run if I run East? Is it faster than if I run West?

What if I run in an airplane? A 757 airliner has a cruising speed of around 860 KPH. Since I run quite a bit slower than that, your logic would tell you that no matter how fast I run I can not possibly get to the front of the plane. Fortunately, there are also bathrooms in the tail.

Now let's make this even more interesting. I manage to sneak a gun past the TSA (easy -- they are far more interested in people with nail clippers and more than 2 oz of shampoo.)

The average muzzle velocity of small handguns works out to 820 KPH. Which means if I am going to hijack the airliner, I have to act before it reaches cruise altitude -- otherwise my bullet will never catch up with the front of the plane!

(In fact, by your logic, they will in fact travel BACKWARDS at roughly twice the speed I am capable of sprinting.)
 Quoting: nomuse (not logged in) 2380183


I hope you will not hijack airplanes and I have never been to the equator (though it must be quite windy).

By my logic the payload cannot be propelled upward a velocity exceeding that of the exhausting gas.

afro
Anonymous Coward
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08/24/2012 01:08 AM
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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
Lo que me toca los cojones es que unos niñatos tocagüevos que no se han esforzado un carajo en esta puta vida, se permitan el lujo de cuestionar a un señor que ha trabajado y se ha esforzado por conseguir hacer algo en esta vida, de verdad: Dr. Astro.


Yo sí le creo cuando dice que se ha sacado el doctorado.

Nunca habla reclamando su vida profesional, sin embargo todos, a falta de argumentos, le llamais shill. Qué verguenza!
Ël es una persona que tiene un corazón fuera de lo común. Dedica su tiempo libre a los demás: una persona que piensa en el beneficio, y no en su Ego.
Anonymous Coward
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08/24/2012 01:17 AM
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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
Y lo hace para mejoarar el conocimiento.¡Eso es maravilloso!

Lo que está haciendo es extraordinario: está luchando contra la irracionalidad. Es un corazón tendido al Sol de la razón:


Welcome to the life!
nomuse (not logged in)
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08/24/2012 02:47 AM
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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
By my logic the payload cannot be propelled upward a velocity exceeding that of the exhausting gas.


 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22433808


But....it ISN'T.

The gas is exhausting at some velocity. Always. Otherwise it would never leave the chamber in the first place.

What on Earth (or in space) does the motion of the thrust chamber in reference to some arbitrary place (the surface of the Earth? The surface of the Sun? The center of mass of the Great Attractor?) have to do with the velocity of the exhaust gas relative to the thrust chamber?
nomuse (not logged in)
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08/24/2012 03:15 AM
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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
Why would you think the equator would be exceptionally windy?

It isn't, by the by. In fact, rather the obverse.
DUCM900

User ID: 22508115
08/24/2012 03:41 AM

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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
Does the story of that rocket plane X-15 sound a "bit" strange if compared with apollos space rocket max speed performance?


Maximum speed: Mach 6.72 (4,520 mph, 7,274 km/h)




The program's final flight was performed on October 24, 1968.
 Quoting: DUCM900


Now the question is:

Is there any video showing Apollos mission lift off with real time basic stuff such as speed data and/or altitude data on display?


if NOT, it's VERY, VERY suspicious that thing.


>> R E M E M B E R : <<

"The delta-v needed to achieve low earth orbit starts around 9.4km/s -->[33,840km/h]".

Last Edited by IWASTHERE on 08/24/2012 07:13 AM
To live is to believe in the power of dreams.
To dream is to believe in the power of love.
To love is to believe in yourself.

Luca 21:28 "Ma quando queste cose cominceranno ad accadere, guardate in alto e alzate i vostri sguardi, perché la vostra liberazione è vicina".
Halcyon Dayz, FCD
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08/24/2012 06:33 AM

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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
Once again you're pissing against the wind.

What you find 'suspicious' doesn't matter.

Tens of millions of engineers don't think it is, so the only way for you to be right would be for a perfect conspiracy going back hundreds of years and encompassing most of everybody with technical or scientific training to exist.

I'd go with some dude from Italy not having a clue.
(Kind of your MO.)
book

Last Edited by Halcyon Dayz, FCD on 08/24/2012 08:04 AM
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It rots the mind and blackens the heart.


Hi! My name is Halcyon Dayz and I'm addicted to morans.
AtsuiPanda
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08/24/2012 06:35 AM

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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
This wins the dumb fuck thread award by far OP exceeded going full retard
How many feminists does it take to screw in a lightbulb? One. She stands there with the bulb in the socket and waits for the world to revolve around her.
Dr. Astro
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08/24/2012 10:00 AM

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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
Whether or not NASA can launch glorified fireworks and make a balloon float is not the issue.

The math works??? How? For what? Perpetuating a massive scam?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22433808

The math works. Fireworks? Balloon? Horse shit. I tracked the space shuttle because the math worked; the only way I could do so if they reached orbit exactly how they said they did, at the velocity they said they did, and the altitude they said they had.
Of course, now that we know you "tracked them first-hand", what other information could we possibly need?
 Quoting: AC

Nothing. Your claims carry they burden of proof, but they are made without evidence, therefore they are dismissed without evidence.
Nozzle design matters because the nozzle must CONTROL the interaction of the propellant with the ambient atmosphere. You claimed this interaction was irrelevant. Try again.
 Quoting: AC

It's relevant for the efficiency, not for the ability of the vehicle to exceed the exhaust velocity. You're trying to play games about details when your basic understanding of physics is dead wrong.
Conservation of momentum is a misnomer.
 Quoting: AC


No it is not.
astrobanner2
Anonymous Coward
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08/24/2012 11:54 AM
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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
I've got Orbiter...excellent simulator.
Some years back, they had files of the orbital parameters for a mission, updated post ISS separation. I went outside to watch a post sunset flyover of ISS and STS, then came in and got the numbers loaded in the sim.

During the quiet hours of the mission, they would often have a PB camera pointed down, looking at the passing scenery below. I pulled up my camera in the sim, and the match of the scenery was startling. Between the hi-res Earth graphics and what was on TV, I was maybe a quarter second behind. Watched them both for the better part of a daylight pass.

Fact is, there are satellites up there, lots of them. If some willfully ignorant person (since when did such things become "hip"?) wants to believe all those objects we see passing overhead are fake, so be it. Just do me a favor and don't vote. The world is screwed up enough.

The rest of us will continue living and working in the real world.
Anonymous Coward
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08/24/2012 12:09 PM
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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
If there were no satellites in orbit...

No GPS
No Satcom/overseas phone services (except for hardwire lines)
No satellite weather images
No Internet for the "masses"
No satellite TV
No ICBMs
No Hubble images
No spy satellites...imaging or communications monitoring
No good pictures of other planets/asteroids, etc

I wonder how many remember life before satellites...3 TV channels (maybe 4 with the local UHF channel), had to wait to get images/films of breaking events. Used operators for long distance calls.

No satellites? Impossible? Open your eyes...
DUCM900

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08/24/2012 12:15 PM

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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
At this point maybe satellites are not in 'deeper' space such 800 km and above as they say, maybe they are pretty close at the edge limit of external atmosphere..

breakthru

Last Edited by IWASTHERE on 08/24/2012 01:24 PM
To live is to believe in the power of dreams.
To dream is to believe in the power of love.
To love is to believe in yourself.

Luca 21:28 "Ma quando queste cose cominceranno ad accadere, guardate in alto e alzate i vostri sguardi, perché la vostra liberazione è vicina".
Anonymous Coward
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08/24/2012 01:00 PM
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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
The ISS hangs out around 300km up, easily visible after sunset and before sunrise to most of the populated Earth. There are websites that provide these schedules for your area if you're interested. It does suffer from miniscule atmospheric drag over time, and needs small reboosts every several months.

GPS satellites are in elliptical orbits, going well beyond 1000km at apogee. Communications satellites live out in the geostationary belt, 20-some thousand miles out...very many of them, such that an international body allocates precise positions and frequencies to prevent interference. Old or broken satellites are removed from their assigned positions or deorbited (using small rockets, yes).

Satellites are a huge international business.
Anonymous Coward
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08/24/2012 01:21 PM
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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
At this point maybe satellites are not in 'deeper' space such 1000 km and above as they say, maybe they are pretty close at the edge limit of external atmosphere..

:breakthru:
 Quoting: DUCM900


What is my bolted down, very stationary DirecTV satellite dish pointing at then? Where do global weather maps/photos come from?

Geostationary orbit is a hard place to get to, takes a lot of energy, especially of not launched from near the Equator (one reason Kennedy Space Center is where it is). The Russians back in the Soviet days, couldn't get there from their launch sites at their northern latitudes, so they designed an orbit, highly inclined and very eccentric, which had the apogee (high point) way out to allow the satellite to be pretty stationary over the northern latitudes of their country. The Molniya (sp?) orbit.
Now, post cold war, they can launch equatorial satellites from the French site on the Equator...on European boosters.
The ISS is in it's highly inclined orbit mainly due to Russian launch site limitations, allowing their boosters to get maximum payloads to the station with minimal, fuel-expensive plane changes.

There's lots of stuff beyond 1000km...
DUCM900

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08/24/2012 02:00 PM

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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
Hi AC 22523181 Thanks for participating the discussion, you are welcome.

Concerning the video of rockets taking off (including the Space Shuttle), I've just look on the internet if I was able to find some stuff with basic datas such as speed while the rockets lifted off, but I did not find anything yet.

I remember that every time I watched TV for the SS launch, I always searched for that thing, without success.

Anyone here has ever seen that data infos while the stuff were on the way including Saturn V era?

If not, maybe do they have something to hide? what do you think...



Last Edited by IWASTHERE on 08/24/2012 02:35 PM
To live is to believe in the power of dreams.
To dream is to believe in the power of love.
To love is to believe in yourself.

Luca 21:28 "Ma quando queste cose cominceranno ad accadere, guardate in alto e alzate i vostri sguardi, perché la vostra liberazione è vicina".
G all EYE
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08/24/2012 02:51 PM
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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
Oh how we laugh at the eaters!


The biggest conspiracies are the easiest to hide.
Anonymous Coward
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08/24/2012 02:59 PM
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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space

 Quoting: DUCM900


Bumped for "very slow motion" launch footage. Go to youtune and search for "space shuttle launch"...guarentee you'll see many offerings.
As to liftoff speed...perhaps you're thinking "accelleration" off the pad? If so, it's all a question of thrust to weight ratio at liftoff...Shuttle came off the pad relatively quickly vs the "lumbering" Saturn V of Apollo era.
nomuse (not logged in)
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08/24/2012 04:22 PM
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Re: Moon Hoax - Rockets CANNOT work in space
Well, yeah. The shuttle's SRBM's don't have throttles. I imagine there is some clever chemistry to ease the starting transient, tho.

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