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Why has Evolution limited the human lifespan to approx. +/- 75 years?

 
Tekunda
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03/05/2012 11:07 AM

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Why has Evolution limited the human lifespan to approx. +/- 75 years?
The theory of evolution is the theory of the survival of the fittest. No superior entity regulates evolution. Evolution itself is blind, deaf and dumb and all what we see today is the outcome of the survival of the fittest.

So why was it so beneficial for humans not to live much longer than 75 years ?(of course there are exceptions, we all know that, on either side of the scale).

Why was the outcome of the terrible fight of the survival of the fittest not 120 years or 200 years, or maybe just 25 years? If dumb giant turtles in "their survival of the fittest fight" were "granted 120+ years" shouldn't superior human beings live a little longer?

And since all factors of existence were bound by the law of the survival of the fittest, in order for 75 years to become established as the most beneficial age for humans, there must have been a fight between human gene groups who died at a huge difference in age.

By that I mean there must have been gene pools who were able to reach 200, 300, 400 years and other gene pools who only reached 20, 25, 50.
Only if there is a huge variety can the war of survival of the fittest start. But never were humans found to live much older than 75 in general. (aside from a few exceptions in Siberia etc. but even here 120 was the max.)

If age was never subjected to this war, human age was pre-determined, but we all know that since evolution has no intelligence of its own, this is not possible.

So how can Evolution explain that our statistical lifespan of +/- 75 years turned out to be the winner in this war of survival?

Last Edited by Tekunda on 03/05/2012 11:12 AM
Anonymous Coward
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03/05/2012 11:23 AM
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Re: Why has Evolution limited the human lifespan to approx. +/- 75 years?
Good point , also survival of the fittest does not apply to humans, for the simple

fact that , a human does not have to fight to secure a mate, so this means nearly

all the gene pool can procreate, when in nature its usually the dominate male

which passes on certain traits, this does not happen within the human race.
Anonymous Coward
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03/05/2012 11:32 AM
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Re: Why has Evolution limited the human lifespan to approx. +/- 75 years?
I've heard that humans live three times longer than we should, based on our size as compared to other mammals. Your telomeres shorten over time and then you die so the next generation can have a say. It's all about the exchange of genes to strengthen the lifeform.
Anonymous Coward
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03/05/2012 11:33 AM
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Re: Why has Evolution limited the human lifespan to approx. +/- 75 years?
We breed and learn during the first half of our lives and teach for the last half its natural.
If you want to live longer breed later, its simple.
People, males in particular who have children late in life seem to live longer than people who have children early.
This is just my observation.
And remember it used to be that woman would likely die of childbirth so their life expectancy was even shorter but now thanks to technology the gift of humans through evolution that is no longer the case.
As technology evolves we will eventually see much longer life spans, thus evolution will provide a longer life.
The main gift of humans through evolution is the mind and technology it has given us the ability to survive without claws, fur, fangs or any other "animal traits" in very inhospitable climates. Humans thrive in all regions from pole to pole and if our minds were suddenly the same as animals we would face a very large dieing off.
Just be patient a longer lifespan is coming even if its just so we can survive to colonize other planets.
Anonymous Coward
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03/05/2012 11:33 AM
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Re: Why has Evolution limited the human lifespan to approx. +/- 75 years?
Civilisation negates evolution.

In nature the weak would die while the strong survive.

The 75 year mark is more down to nutrition and medicine than genetics.
Anonymous Coward
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03/05/2012 11:38 AM
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Re: Why has Evolution limited the human lifespan to approx. +/- 75 years?
average life span used to be 45 a couple hundred years ago...besides tptb can't have regular people living too long, it might get a little crowded.
Tekunda (OP)

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03/05/2012 11:39 AM

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Re: Why has Evolution limited the human lifespan to approx. +/- 75 years?
Good point , also survival of the fittest does not apply to humans, for the simple

fact that , a human does not have to fight to secure a mate, so this means nearly

all the gene pool can procreate, when in nature its usually the dominate male

which passes on certain traits, this does not happen within the human race.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11952452


I am not so sure that humans are excluded from the main law of evolution, as if this law does not apply to humans, how did humans become what they are today? As I understand all which makes up a life form was subjected to this law. That is why we have two eyes and not three, and a thumb plus 4 fingers and not 6 fingers and no thumbs. And also I still do not see in your explanation, why and how the statistical median age of +-75 came to be.

Last Edited by Tekunda on 03/05/2012 11:41 AM
Tekunda (OP)

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03/05/2012 11:48 AM

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Re: Why has Evolution limited the human lifespan to approx. +/- 75 years?
Civilisation negates evolution.

In nature the weak would die while the strong survive.

The 75 year mark is more down to nutrition and medicine than genetics.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 10957386



That still is no explanation to the "magical" boundary of +/-75 years.
It is quite easy to live much shorter, but somehow - on a statistical level - nearly impossible to top this number.
Why? How did evolution built in a trigger to cut short our lifespan?
Even the exceptions of this rule hardly reach 120 and 150 is unheard of, even, or especially in our advanced societies.
So where does this limit come from?
VRWil
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03/05/2012 11:48 AM
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Re: Why has Evolution limited the human lifespan to approx. +/- 75 years?
If you bought into evolution, you're already duped.
Mutations are bad. Time decays and kills. No DNA ever found outside of a cell. Every animal produces after it's own kind (a gentic bariier). No intermediate fossils ever found, etc., etc. etc.

God created the heavens and the earth, and he limited man's life expectancy to about 120 years.
Now, if you want to partake in man's deadly foods, drugs, and lifestyle...75 years is about what you'll get.

Oh! BTW, evolution is pushed by the world, so that we'd deny there is a God and abort our children...50,000,000 and counting since Roe vs. Wade (1973).

It is pure stupity to believe that you came from slime off a rock, and the universe (uni -one-, verse -spoken sentence-, "Let there be light...")came from nothing.
VRWil
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03/05/2012 11:50 AM
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Re: Why has Evolution limited the human lifespan to approx. +/- 75 years?
Civilisation negates evolution.

In nature the weak would die while the strong survive.

The 75 year mark is more down to nutrition and medicine than genetics.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 10957386



That still is no explanation to the "magical" boundary of +/-75 years.
It is quite easy to live much shorter, but somehow - on a statistical level - nearly impossible to top this number.
Why? How did evolution built in a trigger to cut short our lifespan?
Even the exceptions of this rule hardly reach 120 and 150 is unheard of, even, or especially in our advanced societies.
So where does this limit come from?
 Quoting: Tekunda


75 years (man's limit, if you partake in the deathstyle he laid out), 120 years (God's limit)

The soul lives forever...
Tekunda (OP)

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03/05/2012 11:54 AM

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Re: Why has Evolution limited the human lifespan to approx. +/- 75 years?
If you bought into evolution, you're already duped.
Mutations are bad.
 Quoting: VRWil 967366


This is not the point! I am curious to learn, if and how evolution can explain an obvious barrier in our longevity, which seems impossible to overcome and how the laws of evolution can explain how this barrier came into existence in the first place, since I see no problem if we were allowed a statistical age of 150.

So why did evolution cut our lives short?
Anonymous Coward
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03/05/2012 11:56 AM
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Re: Why has Evolution limited the human lifespan to approx. +/- 75 years?
Civilisation negates evolution.

In nature the weak would die while the strong survive.

The 75 year mark is more down to nutrition and medicine than genetics.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 10957386



That still is no explanation to the "magical" boundary of +/-75 years.
It is quite easy to live much shorter, but somehow - on a statistical level - nearly impossible to top this number.
Why? How did evolution built in a trigger to cut short our lifespan?
Even the exceptions of this rule hardly reach 120 and 150 is unheard of, even, or especially in our advanced societies.
So where does this limit come from?
 Quoting: Tekunda


There's end caps coded into DNA that grow weaker with every cycle.

They dictate how long cells subdivide.
Anonymous Coward
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03/05/2012 11:56 AM
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Re: Why has Evolution limited the human lifespan to approx. +/- 75 years?
If you bought into evolution, you're already duped.
Mutations are bad. Time decays and kills. No DNA ever found outside of a cell. Every animal produces after it's own kind (a gentic bariier). No intermediate fossils ever found, etc., etc. etc.

God created the heavens and the earth, and he limited man's life expectancy to about 120 years.
Now, if you want to partake in man's deadly foods, drugs, and lifestyle...75 years is about what you'll get.

Oh! BTW, evolution is pushed by the world, so that we'd deny there is a God and abort our children...50,000,000 and counting since Roe vs. Wade (1973).

It is pure stupity to believe that you came from slime off a rock, and the universe (uni -one-, verse -spoken sentence-, "Let there be light...")came from nothing.
 Quoting: VRWil 967366


I have blue eyes. Was that mutation bad?
Anonymous Coward
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03/05/2012 12:00 PM
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Re: Why has Evolution limited the human lifespan to approx. +/- 75 years?
If you bought into evolution, you're already duped.
Mutations are bad.
 Quoting: VRWil 967366


This is not the point! I am curious to learn, if and how evolution can explain an obvious barrier in our longevity, which seems impossible to overcome and how the laws of evolution can explain how this barrier came into existence in the first place, since I see no problem if we were allowed a statistical age of 150.

So why did evolution cut our lives short?
 Quoting: Tekunda


Your particular set of genes are not as valuable as you would like to think.
Genes only work in their own self-interest, which means they seek new information.
Anonymous Coward
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03/05/2012 12:04 PM
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Re: Why has Evolution limited the human lifespan to approx. +/- 75 years?
An interesting take I read somewhere has to do with "risk".

Essentially, that if our lives were "too long" we(individuals) would cease to take risks that could potentially advance the species. Lifespan is a balance between risk avoidance and risk taking.

note that creatures with short life spans reach reproductive capability very quickly.
Tekunda (OP)

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03/05/2012 12:04 PM

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Re: Why has Evolution limited the human lifespan to approx. +/- 75 years?
average life span used to be 45 a couple hundred years ago...besides tptb can't have regular people living too long, it might get a little crowded.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1337166


Since evolution knows nothing, it would also not understand the consequences of a crowed planet.
This would have to be battled out in another fight of the fittest, what median age is the most beneficial for this planet.
As there is no regulatory force aside from battling it out in evolution, there should have been a long, outdrawn period where humans with a massive variety in lifespans lived on this planet and through the survival of the fittest, this age would come to be - and not because evolution was aware of the problems of a crowded planet.

Evolution is aware of nothing! This is the concept of Evolution, not intelligence or awareness of problems but mutations and pure chance governed until the survival of the fittest resolved an issue.

BUT NOT FOREKNOWLEDGE THAT A TOO HIGH LIFESPAN WOULD CREATE FUTURE PROBLEMS!
Anonymous Coward
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03/05/2012 12:05 PM
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Re: Why has Evolution limited the human lifespan to approx. +/- 75 years?
If you bought into evolution, you're already duped.
Mutations are bad. Time decays and kills. No DNA ever found outside of a cell. Every animal produces after it's own kind (a gentic bariier). No intermediate fossils ever found, etc., etc. etc.

God created the heavens and the earth, and he limited man's life expectancy to about 120 years.
Now, if you want to partake in man's deadly foods, drugs, and lifestyle...75 years is about what you'll get.

Oh! BTW, evolution is pushed by the world, so that we'd deny there is a God and abort our children...50,000,000 and counting since Roe vs. Wade (1973).

It is pure stupity to believe that you came from slime off a rock, and the universe (uni -one-, verse -spoken sentence-, "Let there be light...")came from nothing.
 Quoting: VRWil 967366

No intermediate fossils...

Hmmm...

You haven't done your research, my friend...
Anonymous Coward
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03/05/2012 12:06 PM
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Re: Why has Evolution limited the human lifespan to approx. +/- 75 years?
The theory of evolution is the theory of the survival of the fittest. No superior entity regulates evolution. Evolution itself is blind, deaf and dumb and all what we see today is the outcome of the survival of the fittest.

So why was it so beneficial for humans not to live much longer than 75 years ?(of course there are exceptions, we all know that, on either side of the scale).

Why was the outcome of the terrible fight of the survival of the fittest not 120 years or 200 years, or maybe just 25 years? If dumb giant turtles in "their survival of the fittest fight" were "granted 120+ years" shouldn't superior human beings live a little longer?

And since all factors of existence were bound by the law of the survival of the fittest, in order for 75 years to become established as the most beneficial age for humans, there must have been a fight between human gene groups who died at a huge difference in age.

By that I mean there must have been gene pools who were able to reach 200, 300, 400 years and other gene pools who only reached 20, 25, 50.
Only if there is a huge variety can the war of survival of the fittest start. But never were humans found to live much older than 75 in general. (aside from a few exceptions in Siberia etc. but even here 120 was the max.)

If age was never subjected to this war, human age was pre-determined, but we all know that since evolution has no intelligence of its own, this is not possible.

So how can Evolution explain that our statistical lifespan of +/- 75 years turned out to be the winner in this war of survival?
 Quoting: Tekunda


You are very correct in stating that evolution is blind deaf and dumb. Evolution is a nothing more than a game of chance and skill/adaptability. Therefore the question "why is it so benficial for humans not to live much longer than 75 years ?" is flawed and should be reversed to

"why is it beneficial for humans to live to 75 and above ?"

in the same genre the next question is also usefull..

"why does the sperm of older males contain longer telomers?
"
(telomers : long pieces of dna which get shorter and shorted during the life span of a single "specimen" and allow a longer life span without damage to vital dna.)

Hope this helps in you quest of understanding human evolution.
Tekunda (OP)

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03/05/2012 12:12 PM

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Re: Why has Evolution limited the human lifespan to approx. +/- 75 years?
An interesting take I read somewhere has to do with "risk".

Essentially, that if our lives were "too long" we(individuals) would cease to take risks that could potentially advance the species. Lifespan is a balance between risk avoidance and risk taking.

note that creatures with short life spans reach reproductive capability very quickly.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6741560


How would evolution, which has not the ability to reflect upon problems, know which lifespan would be detrimental to our risk taking?
So you claim that evolution which knows nothing, somehow understood the implications of letting us get too old?
So evolution, which is pure chance, suddenly reflected deep philosophical thoughts about the advancement of a future society and "decided" that our lifespan has to be shortened in order for our lifeform to continue?

Are you aware that what you claim is the opposite of evolution?
Anonymous Coward
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03/05/2012 12:16 PM
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Re: Why has Evolution limited the human lifespan to approx. +/- 75 years?
average life span used to be 45 a couple hundred years ago...besides tptb can't have regular people living too long, it might get a little crowded.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1337166


The human life-span was the same a couple of hundred years ago.
The difference was infant mortality and more primitive medical science.
Plenty of people in the 18th century lived into their 80s.
Anonymous Coward
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03/05/2012 12:18 PM
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Re: Why has Evolution limited the human lifespan to approx. +/- 75 years?
Excuse my spelling, it should be "telomere"
Anonymous Coward
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03/05/2012 12:23 PM
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Re: Why has Evolution limited the human lifespan to approx. +/- 75 years?
Oh, quit whining and eat more preservatives.
Tekunda (OP)

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03/05/2012 12:24 PM

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Re: Why has Evolution limited the human lifespan to approx. +/- 75 years?
The theory of evolution is the theory of the survival of the fittest. No superior entity regulates evolution. Evolution itself is blind, deaf and dumb and all what we see today is the outcome of the survival of the fittest.

So why was it so beneficial for humans not to live much longer than 75 years ?(of course there are exceptions, we all know that, on either side of the scale).

Why was the outcome of the terrible fight of the survival of the fittest not 120 years or 200 years, or maybe just 25 years? If dumb giant turtles in "their survival of the fittest fight" were "granted 120+ years" shouldn't superior human beings live a little longer?

And since all factors of existence were bound by the law of the survival of the fittest, in order for 75 years to become established as the most beneficial age for humans, there must have been a fight between human gene groups who died at a huge difference in age.

By that I mean there must have been gene pools who were able to reach 200, 300, 400 years and other gene pools who only reached 20, 25, 50.
Only if there is a huge variety can the war of survival of the fittest start. But never were humans found to live much older than 75 in general. (aside from a few exceptions in Siberia etc. but even here 120 was the max.)

If age was never subjected to this war, human age was pre-determined, but we all know that since evolution has no intelligence of its own, this is not possible.

So how can Evolution explain that our statistical lifespan of +/- 75 years turned out to be the winner in this war of survival?
 Quoting: Tekunda


You are very correct in stating that evolution is blind deaf and dumb. Evolution is a nothing more than a game of chance and skill/adaptability. Therefore the question "why is it so benficial for humans not to live much longer than 75 years ?" is flawed and should be reversed to

"why is it beneficial for humans to live to 75 and above ?"

in the same genre the next question is also usefull..

"why does the sperm of older males contain longer telomers?
"
(telomers : long pieces of dna which get shorter and shorted during the life span of a single "specimen" and allow a longer life span without damage to vital dna.)

Hope this helps in you quest of understanding human evolution.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 10342940


How would evolution "know" of longer telomers and the consequences there of?
Since evolution has no intelligence and cannot make wise and logical decisions, the fact that older males have longer telomers cannot lead for evolution to intervene and cut the lifespan short This can only be the outcome of the survival of the fittest.

In our scenario it would mean that there should have been even far older human males than 75, who eventually lost the survival fight due to their inferior telomers.
This is the only way for evolution to establish anything.

But did we have male gene pools which great differences in age (and thus telomers) who "battled this out", where the Methusalem males lost out in the fight of survival?
I have not heard of it, other than in the Bible, which is no fact book for evolution.

So my initial question remains unanswere!
Anonymous Coward
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03/05/2012 12:26 PM
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Re: Why has Evolution limited the human lifespan to approx. +/- 75 years?
An interesting take I read somewhere has to do with "risk".

Essentially, that if our lives were "too long" we(individuals) would cease to take risks that could potentially advance the species. Lifespan is a balance between risk avoidance and risk taking.

note that creatures with short life spans reach reproductive capability very quickly.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6741560


How would evolution, which has not the ability to reflect upon problems, know which lifespan would be detrimental to our risk taking?
So you claim that evolution which knows nothing, somehow understood the implications of letting us get too old?
So evolution, which is pure chance, suddenly reflected deep philosophical thoughts about the advancement of a future society and "decided" that our lifespan has to be shortened in order for our lifeform to continue?

Are you aware that what you claim is the opposite of evolution?
 Quoting: Tekunda


The entire purpose of genes is to strengthen the lifeform and it's their understanding at this point that 75 years is about right and they have no incentive to keep your ass alive for 3,000 years.
Tekunda (OP)

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03/05/2012 12:29 PM

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Re: Why has Evolution limited the human lifespan to approx. +/- 75 years?


There's end caps coded into DNA that grow weaker with every cycle.

They dictate how long cells subdivide.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 10957386


So evolution decided to program a few end caps which would limit our lifespan?
And who programmed these end caps to cap at 75 years instead of i.e. 150 years? Could you elaborate more how evolution accomplished this fact? An why did evolution choose 75 years as limit?
Tekunda (OP)

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03/05/2012 12:29 PM

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Re: Why has Evolution limited the human lifespan to approx. +/- 75 years?


There's end caps coded into DNA that grow weaker with every cycle.

They dictate how long cells subdivide.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 10957386


So evolution decided to program a few end caps which would limit our lifespan?
And who programmed these end caps to cap at 75 years instead of i.e. 150 years? Could you elaborate more how evolution accomplished this fact? An why did evolution choose 75 years as limit?
Anonymous Coward
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03/05/2012 12:33 PM
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Re: Why has Evolution limited the human lifespan to approx. +/- 75 years?
Why would you think it would be beneficial to the species to have us live for hundreds of years and have a reduced flow of genes?

Shit happens, things change, and we have to be ready to adapt with genes produced in the new environment.
Tekunda (OP)

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03/05/2012 12:38 PM

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Re: Why has Evolution limited the human lifespan to approx. +/- 75 years?


The entire purpose of genes is to strengthen the lifeform and it's their understanding at this point that 75 years is about right and they have no incentive to keep your ass alive for 3,000 years.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6741560


Oh, so genes suddenly have a brain of their own, can formulate logical thoughts and somehow know that a human median age is perfect for this planet (of course they can calculate future population density and the problems which come with it.

And thus a group of genes suddenly decided to implement a sort of kill switch into all creatures. And not only that, these super genes could calculate so perfectly that every lifeform on this planet was given their perfect lifespan.

Hmmhhh, are you sure you discuss evolution here?
Tekunda (OP)

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Re: Why has Evolution limited the human lifespan to approx. +/- 75 years?
Sorry, some of my posts seem to get posted double.

Last Edited by Tekunda on 03/05/2012 12:40 PM
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Re: Why has Evolution limited the human lifespan to approx. +/- 75 years?
one thing youve seemed to of overlooked when you used giant turtles as an example. the giant turtle has been on this planets 1000s if not millions of years longer than the human race. the giant turtles have had a much longer time period to be exposed to mutations than we humans. like someone pointed out earlier the humans average life a few hundred yeards was only in the 40s now it is in the 70s for males and 80s for females yet many humans are living to they are in their 100s. we humans are still merely children
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Why has Evolution limited the human lifespan to approx. +/- 75 years?
Sorry, some of my posts seem to get posted double.
 Quoting: Tekunda


genes pass on "genetic memory" memories from the parents to the children. the basic knowledge needed to survive.

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