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8 reasons for unconditional basic income

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1508557
Canada
06/01/2012 01:50 PM
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Re: 8 reasons for unconditional basic income
when people are introduced to this idea by activists, the first reaction is usually

1. sounds like socialism

2. basically good idea but who is going to pay for it

3. they would all lie down and be lazy if their income were guaranteed

however when asked if they themselves would continue to work


most people respond yes they would continue to work because they

1. love their work

2. being lazy for a long period of time is boring they want to do something

3. 1000 euros wouldn't be enough for them




my first reaction was "stupid commie idea" then i actually reseached this topic.


if i had a basic income,

first i would relax because my basic needs are covered. then my actions would probably lead to me doing something i like to do which would sooner or later lead to cashing in on value i produced.


a basic income wouldn't make people lazy but quite the opposite it would give them time and space to be active.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16036558


"Guaranteed" income doesn't make people lazy, on the contrary it gets them more creative because now they don't have to stress so hard about the basics and they can devote that energy to making more money on top of that base income.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 997890
United States
06/01/2012 01:54 PM
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Re: 8 reasons for unconditional basic income
[link to www.usbig.net]

What is the Basic Income Guarantee?


The Basic Income Guarantee (BIG) is a government ensured guarantee that no one's income will fall below the level necessary to meet their most basic needs for any reason.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16036558



My basic income requirements include a 4500 sq foot house, stocked with food all the time, a few nice cars.. each should cost no less than 150K and a good fully stocked RV to take the kids on vacations


let me know when I can get the checks coming...
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 997890
United States
06/01/2012 01:56 PM
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Re: 8 reasons for unconditional basic income
when people are introduced to this idea by activists, the first reaction is usually

1. sounds like socialism

2. basically good idea but who is going to pay for it

3. they would all lie down and be lazy if their income were guaranteed

however when asked if they themselves would continue to work


most people respond yes they would continue to work because they

1. love their work

2. being lazy for a long period of time is boring they want to do something

3. 1000 euros wouldn't be enough for them




my first reaction was "stupid commie idea" then i actually reseached this topic.


if i had a basic income,

first i would relax because my basic needs are covered. then my actions would probably lead to me doing something i like to do which would sooner or later lead to cashing in on value i produced.


a basic income wouldn't make people lazy but quite the opposite it would give them time and space to be active.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16036558


"Guaranteed" income doesn't make people lazy, on the contrary it gets them more creative because now they don't have to stress so hard about the basics and they can devote that energy to making more money on top of that base income.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1508557


HAHAH If I had a guaranteed income that supported my family i would not work, not a single day..
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1490522
United States
06/01/2012 01:57 PM
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Re: 8 reasons for unconditional basic income
If you become dependent on the State, you lose your basic freedoms. Plain and simple. Sadly, most people today are willing to give up their freedoms for a little comfort.

Once you begin taking money from any person or entity, they get to place all kinds of demands on you in order for you to receive their cash. This is an age-old fact..... it has always failed, and this is EXACTLY why the United States is failing.

The system you want will take from the productive members of society and give to the non-productive members of society. Sooner or later, you will end up with more non-productive members than productive. When that happens, extreme poverty ALWAYS follows.

The world can be cruel, but, in order to have basic freedoms, you MUST create for yourself and not depend on anyone else to take care of you.

I HATE to see able bodied people looking for handouts. It is a sickness that kills great economies. A plain and simple fact.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 16757429
Germany
06/01/2012 02:01 PM
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Re: 8 reasons for unconditional basic income
whatever

its ALWAYS the SAME reactions people have when introduced to this concept.


for info/answers look around the web there is plenty of stuff
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 16757429
Germany
06/01/2012 02:01 PM
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Re: 8 reasons for unconditional basic income
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 16757429
Germany
06/01/2012 02:03 PM
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Re: 8 reasons for unconditional basic income
[link to lmgtfy.com]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1238594
United States
06/01/2012 02:14 PM
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Re: 8 reasons for unconditional basic income
and... WHO WILL PAY for your BASIC INCOME....

IS IT FREE???

WOW..... what a lazy lot we have today.

The system is CRASHING....

ALL of you LAZY KIDS... who were spoiled will find that the BIG DADDY GOVT... will change abruptly...

You best get a work pale and get a job or you will ALL be on the street in a few years.

You can BANK on the CRASHING DOLLAR.... and your BIG SPENDERS in WDC.
 Quoting: Secret Of Secrets


Bla Bla Bla...

In the early 1960s, futurist Robert Theobald looked at mainframe computers and imagined what the future might hold. He saw computer and robots taking away everybody's jobs. And, rather than picture a society of starving people search for nuts and berries, he saw people doing what they wanted to do, for fun, while they received one of three levels of guaranteed incomes. He figured that productive people would do what society needed, even garbage collection, and that especially demanding jobs or those that needed a lot of training (doctors, attorneys, etc.) would receive a higher level or even extra income.

His plan had many flaws, but it was still an effort to get people to think about decoupling income from paid wages.

And it's not preposterous to think about that again now, when computers, robots, and workers in other countries have taken away a lot of money-making opportunities.

And yes, I know the conservative stance supports small government without payments for health, education, and welfare, but this liberal thinks all that is BS as long as we can afford multi-trillion dollar wars of aggression with high collateral damage.

Food for thought.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 17869939
Germany
06/19/2012 10:52 AM
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Re: 8 reasons for unconditional basic income
bump
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1380648
Canada
06/19/2012 01:12 PM
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Re: 8 reasons for unconditional basic income
this is a good idea
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 19159787
Germany
07/05/2012 05:27 AM
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Re: 8 reasons for unconditional basic income
bump
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 20303480
United States
07/25/2012 04:32 PM
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Re: 8 reasons for unconditional basic income
What bout those of us who want to be just left alone?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 20633161
Germany
07/27/2012 01:55 AM
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Re: 8 reasons for unconditional basic income

[link to www.youtube.com]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 20633161
Germany
07/27/2012 01:56 AM
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Re: 8 reasons for unconditional basic income
What bout those of us who want to be just left alone?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20303480


thats for you to figure out
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 20633161
Germany
07/27/2012 01:56 AM
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Re: 8 reasons for unconditional basic income
Anonymous Coward
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Germany
07/30/2012 06:53 AM
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Re: 8 reasons for unconditional basic income
Anonymous Coward
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Germany
09/08/2012 05:31 AM
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Re: 8 reasons for unconditional basic income
bump
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 19503697
Ireland
09/08/2012 05:45 AM
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Re: 8 reasons for unconditional basic income


Alan speaking in 1968, and yet here we are in 2012 and we're still under the physical, mental and spiritual control of soul sucking parasites and total insanity which severs them, instead of us...

This utter wisdom gets only 900 views on youtube yet thousands of stupid music videos and people farting and acting utterly stupid get 100+ million views all the time.... it just makes me so depressed and so sad
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 25123144
Germany
10/10/2012 01:16 AM
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Re: 8 reasons for unconditional basic income
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 3946954
United States
10/10/2012 01:44 AM
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Re: 8 reasons for unconditional basic income

...



What would you do if you had a guaranteed income of $2,000 every month.
 Quoting: BRIEF


I do have a guaranteed income...only because I worked and invested wisely...why would anyone do that if they have a guaranteed income from the state?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16036558



because they want to have more. and because nobody wants to party 24/7 and be lazy all the time. they would probabably to something that would lead to earning money.
 Quoting: BRIEF


ahem... i do. i am sick of working. if i had a billion dollars, i would put all my bills on autopay and do whatever the hell i wanted... not much i want to do would make a useful contribution to society, nor do i care.

i want to be a lazy fuck and contribute nothing... until that dream is realized i will continue busting my ass and giving 110% until i die cause i will never be able to retire on what i make.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 25291756
United States
10/10/2012 02:05 AM
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Re: 8 reasons for unconditional basic income
...


I don't expect you to agree to an idea which you have just been introduced to.

However the seed has been planted.

muahahaha

broccoli
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16036558


Here's what will happen if everyone get's a free guaranteed wage:




Ah, so I see. You have a stable life because you "invested wisely"....like those "too big to fail" banks that "earn" trillions of dollars, right?

Jackass.






































yup, not a damn thing
 Quoting: BRIEF



What would you do if you had a guaranteed income of $2,000 every month.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16036558


I do have a guaranteed income...only because I worked and invested wisely...why would anyone do that if they have a guaranteed income from the state?
 Quoting: BRIEF
niphtrique

User ID: 14748444
Netherlands
10/10/2012 02:16 AM

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Re: 8 reasons for unconditional basic income
The situation is like this:
1. Only a few people are needed to produce all we need.
2. Most economic activity harms the planet.

The economic activity keeps people occupied, and those people think they are contributing and that other people are lazy, but the real problem is that there are so many people working hard while there is so little useful work to do. So we destroy the planet to keep people busy. I have worked on a proposal for a basic income with incentives to work if work is needed. Instead of too many useless 'eaters' we have too many useless 'destroyers'.

Many people desire income security and often it is argued that there should be a basic income guarantee or citizen’s income. Any basic income will depend on the income from production, and therefore it is not possible to have a fixed basic income as an undeniable right. The basic income will be dependent on tax income or the income from a wealth fund so less production will reduce the basic income. A lower basic income will create an incentive to work. Basic income can include food stamps and free health care, which means that poor people have fewer options to spend money on frivolous items.

Basic income can reduce the supply of labour but the price of labour will rise when it is in short supply. This will increase the income difference between people that work and those who do not, which then produces a greater incentive to work. If there is a basic income then there will be less need for benefits. Because people do not lose their basic income like they lose their benefits when working, working is more attractive with a basic income compared to benefits. A realistic proposal for basic income should include canceling all government programs to assist people and leaving it up to local communities to identify the people that need additional assistance.

A basic income will reduce the exploitation of workers as unattractive low paying job vacancies will not be filled. The pay for those jobs will need to rise. A high basic income can make a country less competitive, but when there is a demurrage on the national currency, the national currency will drop in value so this will not result in a negative trade balance. Consequently the country will become more competitive and the demand for labour will rise, which then will increase the income difference between people that work and those who do not.

A basic income combined with a lower minimum wage can help to bring people with a lower productivity into the workforce. This can reduce the cost of disability benefits. A basic income will also help to make people with different work ethics live in harmony. People who do not like to work may choose to live of the basic income. It is sometimes argued that a basic income will attract illegal immigrants but illegal immigrants are not eligible for basic income. Immigrants are attracted by wealth differences and job opportunities. Those wealth differences and job opportunities probably will not change much because of the basic income.

If production is meachanised and automated or if we refrain from unneccesary economic activities that harm the planet, there will not be enough work for all unless people work less on average. Ending unnecessary economic activities does not reduce wealth, but increases wealth, as less irreplaceable resources are wasted on frivolous activity. Basic income is a market solution to reduce average working hours with a minimal need for regulation. The alternatives are heavy competition between labourers and useless economic activities that destroy the planet to employ more people. It is therefore in the interest of everyone to have a basic income.

Last Edited by niphtrique on 10/10/2012 03:05 AM
The Plan for the Future: [link to www.naturalmoney.org]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1408171
Canada
10/10/2012 04:16 AM
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Re: 8 reasons for unconditional basic income
The reason I make so much money is because I have sacrificed friends and family to work on a drilling rig in the middle of nowhere, busting my ass with no life in minus -40° C below zero so people can have oil or natural gas.

Then because of you left-wing socialist utopian nut jobs, I get taxed above & beyond what is fair based on a dollar amount, not taking into account how much it sucks to be a way from civilization that you free loaders take for granite (spelling pun!).
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 31006720
Germany
12/30/2012 03:08 AM
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Re: 8 reasons for unconditional basic income
bump
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 34441038
Germany
02/15/2013 04:54 AM
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Re: 8 reasons for unconditional basic income
A basic income guarantee (also called a universal living wage, universal wage guarantee, basic income or citizen’s income) is a proposed system[1] of social security that regularly provides each citizen with a sum of money unconditionally. In contrast to income redistribution between nations themselves, the phrase basic income defines payments to individuals rather than households,[2] groups, or nations, in order to provide for individual basic human needs. Except for citizenship, a basic income is entirely unconditional. Furthermore, there is no means test; the richest as well as the poorest citizens would receive it. The U.S. Basic Income Network[3] emphasizes this absence of means testing in its precise definition, "The Basic Income Guarantee is an unconditional, government-insured guarantee that all citizens will have enough income to meet their basic needs."

Basic income is related to the concept of a social dividend, and is one of the proposed means for distributing the surplus value or economic profits created by socially owned enterprises in a hypothetical socialist economy.[4]

Basic income guarantee is not to be confused with Guaranteed minimum income, a similar concept where the income that is received may be conditional upon participating in government enforced labor or other conditional means testing. Basic income guarantee is distinct in that the only requirement for receiving it is to be a citizen of the country.

In everyday usage, the phrase basic income is often inaccurately conflated with means tested guaranteed minimum income alternatives such as a negative income tax. A basic income of any amount less than the social minimum is referred to as a partial basic income.

Similar proposals for "capital grants provided at the age of majority" date to Thomas Paine's Agrarian Justice of 1795, there paired with asset-based egalitarianism.
 Quoting: wikipedia


[link to en.wikipedia.org]

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