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8 reasons for unconditional basic income

 
Anonymous Coward
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03/13/2012 05:39 AM
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8 reasons for unconditional basic income
Free Planet
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03/13/2012 05:44 AM
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Re: 8 reasons for unconditional basic income
stop allowing T.H.E.M. to make you a wage slave

demand a Free Planet
Anonymous Coward
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03/13/2012 07:06 AM
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Re: 8 reasons for unconditional basic income
bump
Secret Of Secrets

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03/13/2012 07:08 AM
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Re: 8 reasons for unconditional basic income
and... WHO WILL PAY for your BASIC INCOME....

IS IT FREE???

WOW..... what a lazy lot we have today.

The system is CRASHING....

ALL of you LAZY KIDS... who were spoiled will find that the BIG DADDY GOVT... will change abruptly...

You best get a work pale and get a job or you will ALL be on the street in a few years.

You can BANK on the CRASHING DOLLAR.... and your BIG SPENDERS in WDC.

Last Edited by Stars777 on 03/13/2012 07:10 AM
Anonymous Coward
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05/09/2012 09:07 AM
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Re: 8 reasons for unconditional basic income
Anonymous Coward
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05/14/2012 02:49 PM
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Re: 8 reasons for unconditional basic income
[link to www.basicincome.org]
Anonymous Coward
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05/14/2012 02:55 PM
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Re: 8 reasons for unconditional basic income
oh, I had not seen this thread!
Anonymous Coward
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05/14/2012 03:05 PM
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Re: 8 reasons for unconditional basic income
when people are introduced to this idea by activists, the first reaction is usually

1. sounds like socialism

2. basically good idea but who is going to pay for it

3. they would all lie down and be lazy if their income were guaranteed

however when asked if they themselves would continue to work


most people respond yes they would continue to work because they

1. love their work

2. being lazy for a long period of time is boring they want to do something

3. 1000 euros wouldn't be enough for them




my first reaction was "stupid commie idea" then i actually reseached this topic.


if i had a basic income,

first i would relax because my basic needs are covered. then my actions would probably lead to me doing something i like to do which would sooner or later lead to cashing in on value i produced.


a basic income wouldn't make people lazy but quite the opposite it would give them time and space to be active.
Anonymous Coward
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05/14/2012 03:05 PM
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Re: 8 reasons for unconditional basic income
some sources to check out follow hold on a sec....
BRIEF

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05/14/2012 03:06 PM

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Re: 8 reasons for unconditional basic income

I never forgive and I never forget

I am a licensed firearm holder. I will, under protection of law, use lethal force if attacked.

Briefcut4892
Anonymous Coward
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05/14/2012 03:07 PM
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Re: 8 reasons for unconditional basic income
The vid says that with the amount we already spend on social and a minimal additinal tax we could provide a minimum incoem for everyone.

1st problem I see is getting the current recepients to agree to a lower monthly payout. I mean, she implies that some social monies will be reallocated.

2nd problem is already here. People getting (basically anything, even wages) always want more. Just as the current system in the US has qrown from basic food staples to full support for housing, medical, higher education and on and on, any new ststem will have the same problem. Growth.

3rd problem is already here to a very limited degree, the wage earners/taxpayers will eventually balk under excessive taxation.

Just another pie in the sky utopian dream with no real numbers to back it up.
Anonymous Coward
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05/14/2012 03:08 PM
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Re: 8 reasons for unconditional basic income
sources:
homepage basic income earth network faq: [link to www.basicincome.org]

u.s. basic income guarantee network: [link to www.usbig.net]
Anonymous Coward
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05/14/2012 03:10 PM
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Re: 8 reasons for unconditional basic income

 Quoting: BRIEF


I don't expect you to agree to an idea which you have just been introduced to.

However the seed has been planted.

muahahaha

broccoli
BRIEF

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05/14/2012 03:11 PM

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Re: 8 reasons for unconditional basic income

 Quoting: BRIEF


I don't expect you to agree to an idea which you have just been introduced to.

However the seed has been planted.

muahahaha

broccoli
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16036558


Here's what will happen if everyone get's a free guaranteed wage:











































yup, not a damn thing
I never forgive and I never forget

I am a licensed firearm holder. I will, under protection of law, use lethal force if attacked.

Briefcut4892
Anonymous Coward
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05/14/2012 03:13 PM
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Re: 8 reasons for unconditional basic income
[link to www.usbig.net]

What is the Basic Income Guarantee?


The Basic Income Guarantee (BIG) is a government ensured guarantee that no one's income will fall below the level necessary to meet their most basic needs for any reason. As Bertrand Russell put it in 1918, "A certain small income, sufficient for necessities, should be secured for all, whether they work or not, and that a larger income should be given to those who are willing to engage in some work which the community recognizes as useful. On this basis we may build further." Thus, with BIG no one is destitute but everyone has the positive incentive to work. BIG is an efficient, effective, and equitable solution to poverty that promotes individual freedom and leaves the beneficial aspects of a market economy in place.

The term BIG is more specific than terms like income maintenance or income support, which refer to any kind of program designed to aid those with lower incomes. The Basic Income Guarantee differs from existing income maintenance programs in the United States and Canada in that it is both universal and has no work requirement. It is therefore, very simple and easy to administer. It helps the working poor, single parents, and the homeless, without placing anyone under the supervision of a caseworker.

The Basic Income Guarantee is a generic name for many similar programs aimed at providing universal income support. The name Basic Income Guarantee was chosen because it is similar to both “basic income” (the best-known version of BIG in Europe today) and “guaranteed income” (as the idea was known in the United States when it was seriously considered in the 1960s and 70s. Some (but by no means all) of the many different names for specific basic income guarantee proposals include:
Alaska Permanent Fund Guaranteed Basic Income Share the Wealth
Basic Income (BI) Guaranteed Income (GI) Social Credit
Basic Income Grant (BIG) Guaranteed Minimum Social Dividend
Citizen Dividends Guaranteed Minimum Income Social Income
Citizens' Dividend Income Guarantee Social Wage
Citizens' Income Minimum Income Guarantee State Bonus
Citizenship Income Minimum Income Territorial Dividend
Citizens' Wage Mincome Unconditional Basic Income (UBI)
Daily Bread National Minimum Universal Allocation
Demogrant National Tax Rebate Universal Basic Income (UBI)
Dividends for All Negative Income Tax (NIT) Universal Benefit
Guaranteed Annual Income (GAI) Refundable Income Tax Credit Universal Grant
Guaranteed Adequate Income (GAI) Rent Sharing Universal Income Tax Credit
Anonymous Coward
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05/14/2012 03:15 PM
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Re: 8 reasons for unconditional basic income

 Quoting: BRIEF


I don't expect you to agree to an idea which you have just been introduced to.

However the seed has been planted.

muahahaha

broccoli
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16036558


Here's what will happen if everyone get's a free guaranteed wage:











































yup, not a damn thing
 Quoting: BRIEF



What would you do if you had a guaranteed income of $2,000 every month.
Anonymous Coward
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05/14/2012 03:17 PM
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Re: 8 reasons for unconditional basic income
lets make it $1000.

wouldn't you want more.


Maybe i should have mentioned

you could earn as much additional money as you want and get to keep everything.
BRIEF

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05/14/2012 03:17 PM

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Re: 8 reasons for unconditional basic income

 Quoting: BRIEF


I don't expect you to agree to an idea which you have just been introduced to.

However the seed has been planted.

muahahaha

broccoli
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16036558


Here's what will happen if everyone get's a free guaranteed wage:











































yup, not a damn thing
 Quoting: BRIEF



What would you do if you had a guaranteed income of $2,000 every month.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16036558


I do have a guaranteed income...only because I worked and invested wisely...why would anyone do that if they have a guaranteed income from the state?
I never forgive and I never forget

I am a licensed firearm holder. I will, under protection of law, use lethal force if attacked.

Briefcut4892
Anonymous Coward
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05/14/2012 03:19 PM
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Re: 8 reasons for unconditional basic income
sources:
homepage basic income earth network faq: [link to www.basicincome.org]

u.s. basic income guarantee network: [link to www.usbig.net]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16036558


The most commonly cited source of revenue for BIG is the income tax. Most proposals combine a basic income guarantee with a flat tax on income. Charles Clark estimates that a flat income tax rate of less than 40% would be enough to finance all current government spending and a BIG large enough to eliminate poverty
endsnip

Most Us earners pay an effective federal rate of 15% or less. 40% is almost triple, and that 40% does not claim to cover each state and local tax needs.


Wealth taxes, sales taxes, capital gains taxes, and luxury taxes are often proposes as supplementary forms of taxation that would help fund BIG
endsnip

Who is John Galt? In the Ayn Rand novel, the richest, the producers just quit when their tax burden became unbearable and regulations strangled all business incentives. Might that happen with a BIG tax?

btw, the escerts are from the 2nd link site
Anonymous Coward
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05/14/2012 03:19 PM
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Re: 8 reasons for unconditional basic income
...


I don't expect you to agree to an idea which you have just been introduced to.

However the seed has been planted.

muahahaha

broccoli
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16036558


Here's what will happen if everyone get's a free guaranteed wage:











































yup, not a damn thing
 Quoting: BRIEF



What would you do if you had a guaranteed income of $2,000 every month.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16036558


I do have a guaranteed income...only because I worked and invested wisely...why would anyone do that if they have a guaranteed income from the state?
 Quoting: BRIEF



because they want to have more. and because nobody wants to party 24/7 and be lazy all the time. they would probabably to something that would lead to earning money.
Anonymous Coward
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05/14/2012 03:21 PM
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Re: 8 reasons for unconditional basic income
lets make it $1000.

wouldn't you want more.


Maybe i should have mentioned

you could earn as much additional money as you want and get to keep everything.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16036558


Not really. Any additional income would be taxed at 40% federal and whatever other local might be needed.

You get $1000 and the next $1000 you earn gains you only $250 (for a reasonable example), who would work for that?
BRIEF

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05/14/2012 03:23 PM

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Re: 8 reasons for unconditional basic income
...


Here's what will happen if everyone get's a free guaranteed wage:











































yup, not a damn thing
 Quoting: BRIEF



What would you do if you had a guaranteed income of $2,000 every month.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16036558


I do have a guaranteed income...only because I worked and invested wisely...why would anyone do that if they have a guaranteed income from the state?
 Quoting: BRIEF



because they want to have more. and because nobody wants to party 24/7 and be lazy all the time. they would probabably to something that would lead to earning money.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16036558


No, they would lay on their asses and do nothing...Humans are lazy by nature...they do the bare minimum now so they can get by...only a handful of us evil rich people actually go out and overachieve...
I never forgive and I never forget

I am a licensed firearm holder. I will, under protection of law, use lethal force if attacked.

Briefcut4892
Anonymous Coward
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Germany
05/14/2012 03:24 PM
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Re: 8 reasons for unconditional basic income
lets make it $1000.

wouldn't you want more.


Maybe i should have mentioned

you could earn as much additional money as you want and get to keep everything.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16036558


Not really. Any additional income would be taxed at 40% federal and whatever other local might be needed.

You get $1000 and the next $1000 you earn gains you only $250 (for a reasonable example), who would work for that?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14051356


in a model i read about,

all taxes would be lifted but sales tax.

sales tax would increase.


the state would completely finance itself by sales tax revenue.
BRIEF

User ID: 381742
United States
05/14/2012 03:27 PM

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Re: 8 reasons for unconditional basic income
lets make it $1000.

wouldn't you want more.


Maybe i should have mentioned

you could earn as much additional money as you want and get to keep everything.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16036558


Not really. Any additional income would be taxed at 40% federal and whatever other local might be needed.

You get $1000 and the next $1000 you earn gains you only $250 (for a reasonable example), who would work for that?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14051356


in a model i read about,

all taxes would be lifted but sales tax.

sales tax would increase.


the state would completely finance itself by sales tax revenue.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16036558


Hmmm, do I go to bed now so I can get to work on time in the morning or just keep watching this movie with friends and sleep in? I mean after all, even if I get fired so what, it's not like my guaranteed check won't show up...
I never forgive and I never forget

I am a licensed firearm holder. I will, under protection of law, use lethal force if attacked.

Briefcut4892
Anonymous Coward
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Germany
05/14/2012 03:28 PM
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Re: 8 reasons for unconditional basic income
...



What would you do if you had a guaranteed income of $2,000 every month.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16036558


I do have a guaranteed income...only because I worked and invested wisely...why would anyone do that if they have a guaranteed income from the state?
 Quoting: BRIEF



because they want to have more. and because nobody wants to party 24/7 and be lazy all the time. they would probabably to something that would lead to earning money.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16036558


No, they would lay on their asses and do nothing...Humans are lazy by nature...they do the bare minimum now so they can get by...only a handful of us evil rich people actually go out and overachieve...
 Quoting: BRIEF



maybe they would lay on their asses and have sex and party and do drugs all day long

however

after some time has passed they maybe would begin to ask deep questions.

what is the purpose of this?

What is the meaning of life?



i believe men and women have a strong intrinsic motivation to be creative and to contribute to society.
Anonymous Coward
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05/14/2012 03:30 PM
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Re: 8 reasons for unconditional basic income
lets make it $1000.

wouldn't you want more.


Maybe i should have mentioned

you could earn as much additional money as you want and get to keep everything.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16036558


Not really. Any additional income would be taxed at 40% federal and whatever other local might be needed.

You get $1000 and the next $1000 you earn gains you only $250 (for a reasonable example), who would work for that?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14051356


in a model i read about,

all taxes would be lifted but sales tax.

sales tax would increase.


the state would completely finance itself by sales tax revenue.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16036558


Hmmm, do I go to bed now so I can get to work on time in the morning or just keep watching this movie with friends and sleep in? I mean after all, even if I get fired so what, it's not like my guaranteed check won't show up...
 Quoting: BRIEF



then you probably didn't like your job that much. there are surly many who would like to replace you and even do a better job because they like that particular occupation.
Anonymous Coward
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05/14/2012 03:30 PM
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Re: 8 reasons for unconditional basic income
lets make it $1000.

wouldn't you want more.


Maybe i should have mentioned

you could earn as much additional money as you want and get to keep everything.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16036558


Not really. Any additional income would be taxed at 40% federal and whatever other local might be needed.

You get $1000 and the next $1000 you earn gains you only $250 (for a reasonable example), who would work for that?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14051356


in a model i read about,

all taxes would be lifted but sales tax.

sales tax would increase.


the state would completely finance itself by sales tax revenue.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16036558


At what rate? That makes a difference you know. All tax is a drag on the economy.

A national sales tax has been proposed in the US also. But the pols here like the control the current system gives them. With the system we have now we are all wrong, no matter how much we pay.
BRIEF

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United States
05/14/2012 03:31 PM

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Re: 8 reasons for unconditional basic income
...


I do have a guaranteed income...only because I worked and invested wisely...why would anyone do that if they have a guaranteed income from the state?
 Quoting: BRIEF



because they want to have more. and because nobody wants to party 24/7 and be lazy all the time. they would probabably to something that would lead to earning money.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16036558


No, they would lay on their asses and do nothing...Humans are lazy by nature...they do the bare minimum now so they can get by...only a handful of us evil rich people actually go out and overachieve...
 Quoting: BRIEF



maybe they would lay on their asses and have sex and party and do drugs all day long

however

after some time has passed they maybe would begin to ask deep questions.

what is the purpose of this?

What is the meaning of life?



i believe men and women have a strong intrinsic motivation to be creative and to contribute to society.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16036558


Then why are there generations living on welfare now?
I never forgive and I never forget

I am a licensed firearm holder. I will, under protection of law, use lethal force if attacked.

Briefcut4892
Anonymous Coward
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Germany
05/14/2012 03:32 PM
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Re: 8 reasons for unconditional basic income
lets make it $1000.

wouldn't you want more.


Maybe i should have mentioned

you could earn as much additional money as you want and get to keep everything.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16036558


Not really. Any additional income would be taxed at 40% federal and whatever other local might be needed.

You get $1000 and the next $1000 you earn gains you only $250 (for a reasonable example), who would work for that?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14051356


in a model i read about,

all taxes would be lifted but sales tax.

sales tax would increase.


the state would completely finance itself by sales tax revenue.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16036558


At what rate? That makes a difference you know. All tax is a drag on the economy.

A national sales tax has been proposed in the US also. But the pols here like the control the current system gives them. With the system we have now we are all wrong, no matter how much we pay.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14051356


thats why i propose this idea of a more reasonable system that fits the reality of the 21st century.
BRIEF

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05/14/2012 03:32 PM

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Re: 8 reasons for unconditional basic income

I never forgive and I never forget

I am a licensed firearm holder. I will, under protection of law, use lethal force if attacked.

Briefcut4892
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 14051356
United States
05/14/2012 03:32 PM
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Re: 8 reasons for unconditional basic income
...


I do have a guaranteed income...only because I worked and invested wisely...why would anyone do that if they have a guaranteed income from the state?
 Quoting: BRIEF



because they want to have more. and because nobody wants to party 24/7 and be lazy all the time. they would probabably to something that would lead to earning money.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16036558


No, they would lay on their asses and do nothing...Humans are lazy by nature...they do the bare minimum now so they can get by...only a handful of us evil rich people actually go out and overachieve...
 Quoting: BRIEF



maybe they would lay on their asses and have sex and party and do drugs all day long

however

after some time has passed they maybe would begin to ask deep questions.

what is the purpose of this?

What is the meaning of life?



i believe men and women have a strong intrinsic motivation to be creative and to contribute to society.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16036558


I don't think so. being idle can be habit forming...I know from personal experience of long layoffs and strikes through my work life. I never 'wanted' to return to work.





GLP