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Is Jesus Lucifer? -- The Truth!!!

 
Mr_Electric

User ID: 12200657
Australia
03/16/2012 05:02 AM

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Is Jesus Lucifer? -- The Truth!!!
Ok, so Lamplite has banned me from posting on all of his threads. I have no where else to go to refute his claims on this board but to post another thread.

What a shame. He's afraid that I'll expose his deception, I guess.

Anyway, for those of you who have eaten of his poisoned electric apple... and for those of you who are troubled by his claims and are shaken like a reed in the wind, here is a nugget for you guys to ponder on.

I went through the process of putting this together for a reply to his thread about Jesus being a false prophet only to hit the post button and find that I was banned yet AGAIN. I wonder why he's banning people left and right??

Anyway, here is my reply that could have just went on his post but can't now that he's had a wittle wee wee attack in his wittle diaper over my responses.

------------------------------------
Hey Lamplite,

If I respond to you, are you going to delete my post as you did in the other thread? Just because I disagree with you or call you out on something?

Are you afraid that someone might actually "unspin" the spin you are putting on scripture and how you're taking it out of context, as Satan did with Psalm 91 when tempting Jesus to throw Himself off the pinnacle of the temple?

I don't get into all the mythology and mixing of metaphors and all that bunk you wrote. The truth is very simple and only those who are sealed by the Holy Spirit can understand the parables. That is why you've got them all mixed up and come up with a total bass ackwards conclusion that the King of Glory is actually Satan.

Here's a few nuggets for those who are being poisoned by your Satanic propaganda to ponder on.

The word "Lucifer" in Isaiah 14 refers to the planet Venus. In latin, the word "Venus" is spoken as "lucifer". So in latin, someone seeing Venus shining brightly in the sky would say... "Lucifer sure is shining brightly tonight."

You are wrong. The whole chapter of Isaiah 14 is nothing but a PROVERB/TAUNT to the King of Babylon who wanted to "be like the Most High".

Here is the passage in question. People, please read it.

Isa 14:4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!
Isa 14:5 The LORD hath broken the staff of the wicked, [and] the sceptre of the rulers.
Isa 14:6 He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, [and] none hindereth.
Isa 14:7 The whole earth is at rest, [and] is quiet: they break forth into singing.
Isa 14:8 Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, [and] the cedars of Lebanon, [saying], Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us.
Isa 14:9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet [thee] at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, [even] all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
Isa 14:10 All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?
Isa 14:11 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, [and] the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.
Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! [how] art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Isa 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
Isa 14:16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, [and] consider thee, [saying, Is] this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
Isa 14:17 [That] made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; [that] opened not the house of his prisoners?
Isa 14:18 All the kings of the nations, [even] all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house.
Isa 14:19 But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, [and as] the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.

This was a literal "taunt" or "proverb" that God said people would take up against the King of Babylon. This was literal and had nothing to do with Satan as Satan does not fall to earth until Revelation 12.

Kings back then actually thought when they died, they became literal stars in the heaven. The King of Babylon (Nebuchadnezzar) wanted to be like the Most High (GOD- Christ) and ascend into the heavens and sit on the mount of the congregation, to ride on the clouds. He wanted to ascend in his pride and God knew in His heart that he wanted to be like Christ... the Bright Morning Star (which is Venus... "Lucifer" in latin).

Jesus IS the BRIGHT MORNING STAR. Jesus IS GOD in human flesh (a human temple or tabernacle). God said in the old testament in Jeremiah that he would make a NEW COVENANT with His people.

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day [that] I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

This is ALL ABOUT CHRIST and no matter what kind of spin you put on it, it won't work. Those who know the Truth, know that Christ came and was the mediator of this new covenant. A covenant where people are led by the Spirit, not by the letter of the law written on stone.

A circumcision of the heart.

Lucifer was NEVER a name given to Satan. Satan had access to throne of God in the book of Job and also in the book of Joshua. He was never referred to as Lucifer and whether people like it or not, the word Lucifer has been corrupted... but does not mean evil and has nothing to do with Satan WHATSOEVER.

So you are correct when you say that Jesus is Lucifer (the Bright Morning Star) but the trouble is not many understand WHY! THE WORD "LUCIFER" just means VENUS and HAS NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH SATAN at ALL!

Christ using "Venus/Lucifer/Bright Morning Star" in Revelation is a metaphor that helps people take something they DO understand and understand better something they previously did NOT understand.

You have to use the Russian language to teach a Russian the English language, you know?

This whole passage is simply a taunt for Nebuchadnezzar and the pride of his heart. It's like the President saying to someone who thinks he's going to be higher than the President... in a SARCASTIC tone....

"Oooooohhh okaaaaaay 'Mr. President', keeper of the Constitution..... "Mr. Powerful'..... How you have fallen from your lofty aspirations! You are brought down to the gutter and all your pride and arrogance have been brought to nothing"

"You thought in your heart that you would ascend to the presidency. But you are brought down to the streets like a homeless person!"

This whole passage is twisted totally out of context.

The reason this sounds LIKE Christ... is....

are you ready???......

Is because Christ IS God and HE DID THESE THINGS and the King of Babylon wanted to BE LIKE HIM.

DUH!!!

Christ is the MOST HIGH GOD revealed to us in flesh. The Spirit of God was housed in that flesh temple and God dwelt among us as HE promised He would!

You are twisting scripture and using all the deceptive bait and switch tactics to try to draw people into your delusion.

Those who KNOW their God will resist and see your deception easily.

I am praying for you and for all those that eat of your poisoned electric apple of death.

Peace.
---------------------------------------

Here are some important links that you guys will find very interesting and will expose the lies of Lamplite and others who are trying to get others to take the mark of the beast by attributing the power of God to evil and Satan.

An interview I had with Author David W. Lowe about his new book "Deconstructing Lucifer" which deals directly with Isaiah 14 and this very subject!

[link to www.truthstreamoasis.com]

A link to David's Website for the book where you can get the Kindle version for your iPhone, Kindle or iPad for $8.

[link to www.DeconstructingLucifer.com]

David's book goes in to MASSIVE detail about all of this and puts this argument TO BED FOR GOOD.

Please take the time to at least listen to the interview. It's a good one and we talk about how the "big" secret at the top of the illuminati is that Jesus and Lucifer are one and the same. It's all bull as David can prove, but it's what they are trying to bring out as the statement by Albert Pike states in his letter to Giuseppe Mazzini.

All comments are welcome. I won't ban you are muzzle you as long as you're not coming in here just to spew obscenities and your comment is on topic. :-)

Peace!

Last Edited by Mr_Electric on 03/16/2012 05:14 AM
Save a Life. Yours. Stop Smoking. There IS a Safer Alternative.

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Mr_Electric (OP)

User ID: 12200657
Australia
03/16/2012 05:44 AM

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Re: Is Jesus Lucifer? -- The Truth!!!
Lucifer is a latin word coming from "lux" and "ferre". It was used in reference to the actual physical planet Venus.

St. Jerome is responsible for the connection between Satan and this passage and starting the doctrine that Isaiah 14 had to do with the "fall" of Satan.

Satan is cast out of heaven when the war with Michael and his angels takes place. Up until this, he has had access to the throne of God. He is the "accuser" and is the hinderer of God's people.

Ultimately, he tests the loyalty of the heart of God's people.

Choosing to believe that Christ is a false prophet or that he is a liar and deceiver as Lamplite is now putting forth is akin to taking the mark of the beast.

There are ONLY 2 instances where men's sins cannot be forgiven. Blaspheming the Holy Spirit and attributing the power of God to the power of Satan... and taking the mark of the beast.

I suspect that they are one and the same. Satan is in the beginning stages of bringing this heresy out into the light of the masses. It will be the reason why Christ said His people would be hated of all nations for "His name's sake". It will be the reason why many are offended by His "name" and turn away from the faith.

Christians hold on because the whirlwind that is coming will test each man's heart. This is why Christ asked "with there be faith on earth?" when He returns.

It is the quintessential issue. This is why the Pharisees had Christ taken before Pontius Pilate to be crucified. They believed His power was from the devil or Beelzebub, the prince of demons.

What do YOU think?

Everyone at some point will have to deal with "WHO IS JESUS CHRIST"???
Save a Life. Yours. Stop Smoking. There IS a Safer Alternative.

[link to www.ElectronicCigaretteConsumerReviews.com]
Anonymous Coward
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03/16/2012 05:47 AM
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Re: Is Jesus Lucifer? -- The Truth!!!
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Mr_Electric (OP)

User ID: 12200657
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03/16/2012 05:51 AM

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Re: Is Jesus Lucifer? -- The Truth!!!
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 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11769536


Ummmmm.... what does THAT mean? LOL
Save a Life. Yours. Stop Smoking. There IS a Safer Alternative.

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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 6391074
United States
03/16/2012 05:51 AM
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Re: Is Jesus Lucifer? -- The Truth!!!
Lucifer is a latin word coming from "lux" and "ferre". It was used in reference to the actual physical planet Venus.

St. Jerome is responsible for the connection between Satan and this passage and starting the doctrine that Isaiah 14 had to do with the "fall" of Satan.

Satan is cast out of heaven when the war with Michael and his angels takes place. Up until this, he has had access to the throne of God. He is the "accuser" and is the hinderer of God's people.

Ultimately, he tests the loyalty of the heart of God's people.

Choosing to believe that Christ is a false prophet or that he is a liar and deceiver as Lamplite is now putting forth is akin to taking the mark of the beast.

There are ONLY 2 instances where men's sins cannot be forgiven. Blaspheming the Holy Spirit and attributing the power of God to the power of Satan... and taking the mark of the beast.

I suspect that they are one and the same. Satan is in the beginning stages of bringing this heresy out into the light of the masses. It will be the reason why Christ said His people would be hated of all nations for "His name's sake". It will be the reason why many are offended by His "name" and turn away from the faith.

Christians hold on because the whirlwind that is coming will test each man's heart. This is why Christ asked "with there be faith on earth?" when He returns.

It is the quintessential issue. This is why the Pharisees had Christ taken before Pontius Pilate to be crucified. They believed His power was from the devil or Beelzebub, the prince of demons.

What do YOU think?


Everyone at some point will have to deal with "WHO IS JESUS CHRIST"???
 Quoting: Mr_Electric


I think I've got a life to live and about a hundred more important things to think about.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 12581195
United States
03/16/2012 06:00 AM
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Re: Is Jesus Lucifer? -- The Truth!!!
Jesus was originally more of a Budhist then a modern Christian. The Bible was changed and enough was taken out and added to distort the truth and keep people enslaved! Think about it, Jesus hated the Money Changers and want to FREE THE SLAVES!!! SEEK THE TRUTH!
ThreeWhiteEyes

User ID: 11281376
United States
03/16/2012 06:01 AM
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Re: Is Jesus Lucifer? -- The Truth!!!
Suprised I still see this thread.

Yeah, but people come to glp and such for a good mindfuck, I'm finding. When you start revealing the Truth, I think they fear declining views.

These conspiracy forums are alive, and they feed on aberrant fear. Taunt the beast with starvation, and it comes for you.

I appreciate your fight; keeping the Truth is vital. In the days to come, it will run in even shorter supply.

Last Edited by ThreeWhiteEyes on 03/16/2012 06:02 AM
Some things are better left unsaid.
Mr_Electric (OP)

User ID: 12200657
Australia
03/16/2012 06:02 AM

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Re: Is Jesus Lucifer? -- The Truth!!!
Lucifer is a latin word coming from "lux" and "ferre". It was used in reference to the actual physical planet Venus.

St. Jerome is responsible for the connection between Satan and this passage and starting the doctrine that Isaiah 14 had to do with the "fall" of Satan.

Satan is cast out of heaven when the war with Michael and his angels takes place. Up until this, he has had access to the throne of God. He is the "accuser" and is the hinderer of God's people.

Ultimately, he tests the loyalty of the heart of God's people.

Choosing to believe that Christ is a false prophet or that he is a liar and deceiver as Lamplite is now putting forth is akin to taking the mark of the beast.

There are ONLY 2 instances where men's sins cannot be forgiven. Blaspheming the Holy Spirit and attributing the power of God to the power of Satan... and taking the mark of the beast.

I suspect that they are one and the same. Satan is in the beginning stages of bringing this heresy out into the light of the masses. It will be the reason why Christ said His people would be hated of all nations for "His name's sake". It will be the reason why many are offended by His "name" and turn away from the faith.

Christians hold on because the whirlwind that is coming will test each man's heart. This is why Christ asked "with there be faith on earth?" when He returns.

It is the quintessential issue. This is why the Pharisees had Christ taken before Pontius Pilate to be crucified. They believed His power was from the devil or Beelzebub, the prince of demons.

What do YOU think?


Everyone at some point will have to deal with "WHO IS JESUS CHRIST"???
 Quoting: Mr_Electric


I think I've got a life to live and about a hundred more important things to think about.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6391074


I can understand you feeling that way.

My brother felt the same way and 2 years ago he developed lung cancer. It changed his whole paradigm and how he looked at life and God.

I used to talk with him on Skype (he lived in Kentucky) and listen to him talk about how he regretted wasting so much time on things and how they were all really distractions to the important things in life.

He passed away last February and right before He passed, He was speaking to Christ who he was trying to tell us was in the room coming for Him. I'm so glad he made peace with God through Christ before he passed.

So, even though you may think now that you have more important things to think about. Just leave it open in your mind that this could change in an instant.

Peace!
Save a Life. Yours. Stop Smoking. There IS a Safer Alternative.

[link to www.ElectronicCigaretteConsumerReviews.com]
Mr_Electric (OP)

User ID: 12200657
Australia
03/16/2012 06:19 AM

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Re: Is Jesus Lucifer? -- The Truth!!!
Jesus was originally more of a Budhist then a modern Christian. The Bible was changed and enough was taken out and added to distort the truth and keep people enslaved! Think about it, Jesus hated the Money Changers and want to FREE THE SLAVES!!! SEEK THE TRUTH!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12581195


But see, God wanted to free people as well. It wasn't just Jesus. Jesus is just the body that the Holy Spirit of YHWH dwelt in among us.

Philip asked Jesus... "Lord, show us the Father".

Jesus said: "Philip, you've been with me 3 years and YOU DON'T KNOW ME?"

Then Jesus said... "If you have seen me, you HAVE SEEN THE FATHER." That's why He always said He and the Father were ONE.

So it's not like Jesus was some rebel trying to free people from God's tyrannical laws. God Himself ultimately wants to free people and bring them back to paradise and total faith in Him because HE IS WORTHY to be trusted in that way!

The only reason God brought the law was to show mankind that he had a virus within him that was causing him to be at war with God, to constantly disobey Him which leads to death and separation.

The ULTIMATE wisdom of God is found in Christ as God brought the law as a teaching tool to lead us back to the freedom which is found in Christ.

For we who are in Christ are no longer under law, but under the promise. We are not led by the law, but led by the Spirit through our hearts and not by laws etched into stone. The laws are etched into our hearts.

Love your neighbor as yourself. Against such, there IS no law. ;-)

JESUS AND GOD are in agreement because they are not schizophrenic. They are ONE and the SAME. Jesus the Messiah was for our benefit because we could not grasp human equality with God.

It was all about bringing us out of the confusion caused by eating the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. It's been a long long process and it just goes to show you how deeply we were affected.

It's about the conscience of man and how that has been damaged and how a guilty conscience prevents true fellowship. Blood is life and Jesus gave His to be drained onto the ground to prove God's love to us and that God WILL forgive and that we could NEVER fix our wrongs and conscience by ourselves. But we needed to BELIEVE that God would forgive us and that is why Christ walked all the way to the cross and the grave.

It's not about a church building or about fancy suits, carrying your Bible and speaking Church-ese. It's about the truth.

You can quote me on this:

Most churches (corporate churches as businesses housed in buildings and those who serve them) are nothing more than schools to train blind people to deceive themselves and others into thinking they aren't blind any longer.

Teach 'em the language, teach 'em how to act... they'll never know. It serves the devil by turning others away from true Christianity and it deceives those stuck in it from ever searching further to actually be healed of their blindness.

No worries. God is merciful and not willing any should perish. God will work all things out for good to those that love Him and to those that are called according to His purpose.


Peace.
Save a Life. Yours. Stop Smoking. There IS a Safer Alternative.

[link to www.ElectronicCigaretteConsumerReviews.com]
Archer
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United Kingdom
03/16/2012 06:20 AM
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Re: Is Jesus Lucifer? -- The Truth!!!
Danger Zone!
Mr_Electric (OP)

User ID: 12200657
Australia
03/16/2012 06:21 AM

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Re: Is Jesus Lucifer? -- The Truth!!!
Suprised I still see this thread.

Yeah, but people come to glp and such for a good mindfuck, I'm finding. When you start revealing the Truth, I think they fear declining views.

These conspiracy forums are alive, and they feed on aberrant fear. Taunt the beast with starvation, and it comes for you.

I appreciate your fight; keeping the Truth is vital. In the days to come, it will run in even shorter supply.
 Quoting: ThreeWhiteEyes


Much wisdom. I can tell where you got it. ;-)

Your ability to discern through the smoke and mirrors is quite evident.

Thanks for stopping in for a post.

smile_hear
Save a Life. Yours. Stop Smoking. There IS a Safer Alternative.

[link to www.ElectronicCigaretteConsumerReviews.com]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 6391074
United States
03/16/2012 06:23 AM
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Re: Is Jesus Lucifer? -- The Truth!!!
Lucifer is a latin word coming from "lux" and "ferre". It was used in reference to the actual physical planet Venus.

St. Jerome is responsible for the connection between Satan and this passage and starting the doctrine that Isaiah 14 had to do with the "fall" of Satan.

Satan is cast out of heaven when the war with Michael and his angels takes place. Up until this, he has had access to the throne of God. He is the "accuser" and is the hinderer of God's people.

Ultimately, he tests the loyalty of the heart of God's people.

Choosing to believe that Christ is a false prophet or that he is a liar and deceiver as Lamplite is now putting forth is akin to taking the mark of the beast.

There are ONLY 2 instances where men's sins cannot be forgiven. Blaspheming the Holy Spirit and attributing the power of God to the power of Satan... and taking the mark of the beast.

I suspect that they are one and the same. Satan is in the beginning stages of bringing this heresy out into the light of the masses. It will be the reason why Christ said His people would be hated of all nations for "His name's sake". It will be the reason why many are offended by His "name" and turn away from the faith.

Christians hold on because the whirlwind that is coming will test each man's heart. This is why Christ asked "with there be faith on earth?" when He returns.

It is the quintessential issue. This is why the Pharisees had Christ taken before Pontius Pilate to be crucified. They believed His power was from the devil or Beelzebub, the prince of demons.

What do YOU think?


Everyone at some point will have to deal with "WHO IS JESUS CHRIST"???
 Quoting: Mr_Electric


I think I've got a life to live and about a hundred more important things to think about.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6391074


I can understand you feeling that way.

My brother felt the same way and 2 years ago he developed lung cancer. It changed his whole paradigm and how he looked at life and God.

I used to talk with him on Skype (he lived in Kentucky) and listen to him talk about how he regretted wasting so much time on things and how they were all really distractions to the important things in life.

He passed away last February and right before He passed, He was speaking to Christ who he was trying to tell us was in the room coming for Him. I'm so glad he made peace with God through Christ before he passed.

So, even though you may think now that you have more important things to think about. Just leave it open in your mind that this could change in an instant.

Peace!
 Quoting: Mr_Electric


By more important things, I partly mean the spiritual beliefs that I live by. Its not like I go through life and never think about god. Im just not a religious person, so I dont worship a deity. We are all one. We are all god. Jesus has no special meaning to me, therefore pondering his identity has no purpose.
Mr_Electric (OP)

User ID: 12200657
Australia
03/16/2012 06:26 AM

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Re: Is Jesus Lucifer? -- The Truth!!!
By more important things, I partly mean the spiritual beliefs that I live by. Its not like I go through life and never think about god. Im just not a religious person, so I dont worship a deity. We are all one. We are all god. Jesus has no special meaning to me, therefore pondering his identity has no purpose.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6391074


To each his own. You are the captain of your ship. Just remember that the winds of change can be powerful and sometimes it's not wise to try and sail into the wind. ;-)

Peace.
Save a Life. Yours. Stop Smoking. There IS a Safer Alternative.

[link to www.ElectronicCigaretteConsumerReviews.com]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 6391074
United States
03/16/2012 06:31 AM
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Re: Is Jesus Lucifer? -- The Truth!!!
By more important things, I partly mean the spiritual beliefs that I live by. Its not like I go through life and never think about god. Im just not a religious person, so I dont worship a deity. We are all one. We are all god. Jesus has no special meaning to me, therefore pondering his identity has no purpose.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6391074


To each his own. You are the captain of your ship. Just remember that the winds of change can be powerful and sometimes it's not wise to try and sail into the wind. ;-)

Peace.
 Quoting: Mr_Electric


If I'm on my death bed and I see Jesus, than by all means I will not fight it. Its either gonna happen or not, no sense in analyzing it.
Mr_Electric (OP)

User ID: 12200657
Australia
03/16/2012 06:35 AM

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Re: Is Jesus Lucifer? -- The Truth!!!
By more important things, I partly mean the spiritual beliefs that I live by. Its not like I go through life and never think about god. Im just not a religious person, so I dont worship a deity. We are all one. We are all god. Jesus has no special meaning to me, therefore pondering his identity has no purpose.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6391074


To each his own. You are the captain of your ship. Just remember that the winds of change can be powerful and sometimes it's not wise to try and sail into the wind. ;-)

Peace.
 Quoting: Mr_Electric


If I'm on my death bed and I see Jesus, than by all means I will not fight it. Its either gonna happen or not, no sense in analyzing it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6391074


If it were that simple, then there would be no need for God to strive with the prophets to write His words and make His case known to mankind.

But it doesn't seem you have a rebellious attitude and that's cool. God has written, "I oppose the proud, but give grace to the humble.." and that pretty much is the Gospel in it's purity.

Christ broke down that middle partition between us and God and got rid of the enmity that was there. The message of the Gospel is really a message of reconciliation to the Creator. :-)

Peace.
Save a Life. Yours. Stop Smoking. There IS a Safer Alternative.

[link to www.ElectronicCigaretteConsumerReviews.com]
ThreeWhiteEyes

User ID: 11281376
United States
03/16/2012 06:36 AM
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Re: Is Jesus Lucifer? -- The Truth!!!
Lucifer is a latin word coming from "lux" and "ferre". It was used in reference to the actual physical planet Venus.

St. Jerome is responsible for the connection between Satan and this passage and starting the doctrine that Isaiah 14 had to do with the "fall" of Satan.

Satan is cast out of heaven when the war with Michael and his angels takes place. Up until this, he has had access to the throne of God. He is the "accuser" and is the hinderer of God's people.

Ultimately, he tests the loyalty of the heart of God's people.

Choosing to believe that Christ is a false prophet or that he is a liar and deceiver as Lamplite is now putting forth is akin to taking the mark of the beast.

There are ONLY 2 instances where men's sins cannot be forgiven. Blaspheming the Holy Spirit and attributing the power of God to the power of Satan... and taking the mark of the beast.

I suspect that they are one and the same. Satan is in the beginning stages of bringing this heresy out into the light of the masses. It will be the reason why Christ said His people would be hated of all nations for "His name's sake". It will be the reason why many are offended by His "name" and turn away from the faith.

Christians hold on because the whirlwind that is coming will test each man's heart. This is why Christ asked "with there be faith on earth?" when He returns.

It is the quintessential issue. This is why the Pharisees had Christ taken before Pontius Pilate to be crucified. They believed His power was from the devil or Beelzebub, the prince of demons.

What do YOU think?


Everyone at some point will have to deal with "WHO IS JESUS CHRIST"???
 Quoting: Mr_Electric


I think I've got a life to live and about a hundred more important things to think about.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6391074


I can understand you feeling that way.

My brother felt the same way and 2 years ago he developed lung cancer. It changed his whole paradigm and how he looked at life and God.

I used to talk with him on Skype (he lived in Kentucky) and listen to him talk about how he regretted wasting so much time on things and how they were all really distractions to the important things in life.

He passed away last February and right before He passed, He was speaking to Christ who he was trying to tell us was in the room coming for Him. I'm so glad he made peace with God through Christ before he passed.

So, even though you may think now that you have more important things to think about. Just leave it open in your mind that this could change in an instant.

Peace!
 Quoting: Mr_Electric


By more important things, I partly mean the spiritual beliefs that I live by. Its not like I go through life and never think about god. Im just not a religious person, so I dont worship a deity. We are all one. We are all god. Jesus has no special meaning to me, therefore pondering his identity has no purpose.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6391074


Pray perhaps for a greater understanding of why Christ is even needed. You will come to find you will learn in a personal Way, undefined until they day you make the first step.

Perhaps your beloved family member was on to something, and truly saw what he claimed. This begs the question, 'how serious is this "life/death/afterlife" thing, after all?

It starts in humility, and you will not be disappointed, amici.
Some things are better left unsaid.
Mr_Electric (OP)

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03/16/2012 06:51 AM

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Re: Is Jesus Lucifer? -- The Truth!!!
Well said, TWE. :-)

The main reason why I stand against this whole argument about Jesus and the word, "Lucifer" is because I had a powerful experience after 9/11.

I never believed in visions. I was raised a conservative Presbyterian and went to a conservative Baptist Christian school. That only served to grease my slide into sin later on in my life, by the way.

After a divorce/separation after 12 years of marriage in 2000, I went into a tailspin. God started bringing me back Himself the summer before 9/11 since no one else cared for my soul at that time.

After 9/11, I knew it was a prophetical world changing event and I repented to the Lord and said a very powerful prayer (shouting??) out in my back yard. Just me and God listening.

10 days later after I went through my house and cleaned out all the stuff I thought might be offensive to God, I had a vision. Everything I was taught told me not believe in visions that the supernatural was over because the Bible had been written. I think my parents think it was from Satan. 8-P

I heard no voices, no prophecy... just a beautiful light coming out of a cloud. It looked like a blazing star with the horizontal and vertical lines being bolder like a cross. I was so weak that night. I was fasting cuz I was sick about my life and how I'd blasphemed God in my tailspin, being angry at Him thinking He was the source of my misery.

It lasted for about 45 seconds and I was instantly changed. Man was I on fire after that! I got a dose of pure power!

The curious thing about it is that it happened on 9/27/2001 and that was the "Day of Atonement" or "Yom Kippur". I had said the prayer in my back yard on "Rosh Hashana". The 10 days in between are called the "Days of Awe" and they are days of serious repentance. At the time I knew nothing about Hebrew feast days. I only found this out later. I never have understood why this happened to me on those days....

But..

Right after I "saw the light" I went through a powerful contest in my faith. I now know why God allowed me to go through it. God was showing me that this issue with Isaiah 14 was going to have something to do with the end times delusion that is coming.

I went through this whole spiritual battle with Satan trying to make me believe that he masqueraded as Jesus to draw people away from God's law and into grace and licentiousness. It was so troubling to me for months. Satan led me to Isaiah 14 and I just did NOT have the answers.

God helped me though. He gave me many other verses PROVING that Christ was indeed His Messiah.

Now I know why He allowed me to go through that. It was so I would be prepared to fight this movement of people spouting Illuminati type stuff about Jesus being Lucifer and all that goes with it.

I know whereof I speak. Others can mock or not believe, but I KNOW GOD exists because I saw His "shekinah glory" coming out of the cloud. Power in the bible is often translated as "rays of light". That is why the jewish people asked God to let the "light of His face" shine upon them.

That is why Ephesians 5 states... "Wake up O' Sleeper and the light of Christ will shine on you...". It's true!

So, yeah, this issue to me has a very deep personal attachment to me.

Thanks for letting me share.

Peace.

Last Edited by Mr_Electric on 03/16/2012 06:54 AM
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Anonymous Coward
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03/16/2012 06:55 AM
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Re: Is Jesus Lucifer? -- The Truth!!!
It is interesting that you brought up Albert Pike and Lucifer. Freemasons require that you believe in a higher power. But, they do not require you to disclose your religion. But, this would lead me to believe that all Freemasons are Christians whether they know it or not. If it is true that they believe that Lucifer its the higher power and is Jesus and YHVH.
Anonymous Coward
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03/16/2012 06:59 AM
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Re: Is Jesus Lucifer? -- The Truth!!!
Yes, lamplight is misinterpreting the sayings of Jesus.

Jesus was not Lucifer.
Mr_Electric (OP)

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03/16/2012 07:03 AM

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Re: Is Jesus Lucifer? -- The Truth!!!
It is interesting that you brought up Albert Pike and Lucifer. Freemasons require that you believe in a higher power. But, they do not require you to disclose your religion. But, this would lead me to believe that all Freemasons are Christians whether they know it or not. If it is true that they believe that Lucifer its the higher power and is Jesus and YHVH.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12539903


Very astute observation AC. I have pondered this same thought. I just can't see how the Freemasons and Illuminati would be worshiping the true Jesus and true YHWH. Maybe they say this as a double-double type catch-22 deception of some type as Zeph Daniels likes to put it.

There surely is some type of mind-job going on and it's getting worse. They are breaking down trust and disillusioning people to prepare them for the NWO and I don't think it has anything to do with God's true kingdom.

It's like a mind wipe before they start the massive brain-washing, I think. Make people not trust themselves by bringing out the conspiracies of what's been going on and the people never knew or saw it. Makes you distrust yourself, your abilities to discern.. and to distrust any other thing that might be "tricking" you as well. It really destroys trust at the heart of it all. Nobody trusts anything much anymore.

That's all part of it.

Besides, Albert Pike in Morals and Dogma talks about YHWH and "Lucifer" and says that "Lucifer" is the god of good and that YHWH is... well I don't even want to type it but you know what I mean.

It's twisted. I've read Morals and Dogma and it is a massively messed up and twisted mentality when compared with scripture. It's way different.

All the mystic things people are into, yep... it's just like what the Illuminati believe. It's all coming out into the open now.

Buckle up, because we are in 2012 and I think "something" will happen this year if only because they've hyped us for it.

But then again, maybe nothing will happen.... to make people SO cynical about doom that they won't even listen to those trying to warn anymore.

Hmmmmmm.... maybe that IS IT!!! ?????

Peace.
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Mr_Electric (OP)

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03/16/2012 07:04 AM

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Re: Is Jesus Lucifer? -- The Truth!!!
Yes, lamplight is misinterpreting the sayings of Jesus.

Jesus was not Lucifer.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8005934


Jesus was not Satan. Jesus was not "Lucifer" in how people have come to "know" the name Lucifer.

"Lucifer" was a latin word people used for the planet Venus. That's all. End of story.

But yeah, I feel what you were sayin'. :-) :-)

Peace.
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Ohwow!

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03/16/2012 07:07 AM

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Re: Is Jesus Lucifer? -- The Truth!!!
bump

For Truth - I researched your claim here. A little research into the matter proves your truth.

Thanks for bringing light to a deceptive reading and interrpretation of scripture

Why would the deceivers want us to think that it is speaking of Satan? What truth is twisted into their deception here? To destroy the deity of Christ or what?
Mr_Electric (OP)

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03/16/2012 07:17 AM

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Re: Is Jesus Lucifer? -- The Truth!!!
bump

For Truth - I researched your claim here. A little research into the matter proves your truth.

Thanks for bringing light to a deceptive reading and interrpretation of scripture

Why would the deceivers want us to think that it is speaking of Satan? What truth is twisted into their deception here? To destroy the deity of Christ or what?
 Quoting: Ohwow!


I've been trying to figure out the very same thing. I mean, on the surface it seems to be just confusion and turning people away from Christ and the true Gospel.

But somehow, in my spirit, I am discerning a very deeper level to this that I haven't quite been able to put my finger on. I knew it from the time I started having that crazy spiritual battle right after my vision. It was on this VERY topic and I know God allowed me to go through that for a reason.

Maybe to prepare me for what was to come? Maybe I already faced the battle that others will face? Who knows? I keep praying about it though and I know when the time is right, I will be given the answer.

Check out David's book at:

[link to www.DeconstructingLucifer.com]

It's only $8 bucks and you can load it onto your Kindle app on iPhone. It's amazingly deep and he explains ALL the subtle stuff that I just don't have time to post here.

I'm an affiliate manager for over 15,000 sales reps and I also have 6 kids and one more on the way in July! So I truly am busy. I think my wife thinks I spend too much time on here as it is, but this place is a spiritual battleground and it's where I like to be. :-)

If anyone has any other ideas about the motives for this coming out, please feel free to post it. Maybe someone will say something that will click....

Peace.
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Anonymous Coward
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03/16/2012 07:20 AM
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Re: Is Jesus Lucifer? -- The Truth!!!
If you "think" Jesus is Lucifer you'll find out...He's not...but it will be too late. byyyyyyeeeee.
Mr_Electric (OP)

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03/16/2012 07:30 AM

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Re: Is Jesus Lucifer? -- The Truth!!!
If you "think" Jesus is Lucifer you'll find out...He's not...but it will be too late. byyyyyyeeeee.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 10938828


For the record, I never said that I think Jesus is Satan.

Did you read the thread, friend? I think maybe you didn't because I've already shown that the word "Lucifer" has absolutely NOTHING to do with Satan at ALL.

There's only ONE place in scripture where the word Lucifer is used and that is in Isaiah 14. It was talking about the planet Venus, the bright morning star.

It was mistranslated because of some LXX translation problems and influence. St. Jerome made the connection thinking that this was a reference to a fall of Satan. It wasn't. It was a simple taunt pointed at Nebuchadnezzar. Read verse 3 in Isaiah 14.

I know people who don't read the thread, listen to the interview I did or read the book will totally misunderstand.

This is probably why you thought I'm saying that Jesus is "Lucifer" as in (Satan).

That's NOT what I am saying. :-)

Paul
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nzreva

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03/16/2012 07:38 AM
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Re: Is Jesus Lucifer? -- The Truth!!!
Jesus was originally more of a Budhist then a modern Christian. The Bible was changed and enough was taken out and added to distort the truth and keep people enslaved! Think about it, Jesus hated the Money Changers and want to FREE THE SLAVES!!! SEEK THE TRUTH!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12581195


Yahoshua was a Nazoraion, that is the Greek spelling it means NZR Aion or NZR Owlam in Hebrew that is nazor for this age or world. Joseph's head was a NZR
Genesis 49:26 "The blessings of your father Have surpassed the blessings of my ancestors Up to the utmost bound of the everlasting (olam) hills; May they be on the head of Joseph, And on the crown of the head of the one distinguished (NZR) among his brothers.

Joseph was a savior of mankind and his head was the NZR. Nazoraion's believed and still believe all will be saved in the end, through the proper discipline, they are non meat eaters. That is why Yahoshua was the ressurection and life if he touched death it would come back to life.
Lucifer was heylel {hay-lale'}

Heylel wanted to be the most High and rule over the most High, that is he wanted to exploit and abuse and use people for his own pleasure and then throw them away, as Hitler did that is why they said heylel Hitler. Heylel is a title which comes in light and deceives though using the blackness so comes the name son of shachar {shakh'-ar} = blackness. Heylel is the son of 'shachar or darkness.


Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer (Heylel), son of the morning (Shachar)! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Last Edited by nzreva on 03/16/2012 07:42 AM
Mr_Electric (OP)

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03/16/2012 07:43 AM

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Re: Is Jesus Lucifer? -- The Truth!!!
Jesus was originally more of a Budhist then a modern Christian. The Bible was changed and enough was taken out and added to distort the truth and keep people enslaved! Think about it, Jesus hated the Money Changers and want to FREE THE SLAVES!!! SEEK THE TRUTH!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12581195


Yahoshua was a Nazoraion, that is the Greek spelling it means NZR Aion or NZR Owlam in Hebrew that is nazor for this age or world. Joseph's head was a NZR
Genesis 49:26 "The blessings of your father Have surpassed the blessings of my ancestors Up to the utmost bound of the everlasting (olam) hills; May they be on the head of Joseph, And on the crown of the head of the one distinguished (NZR) among his brothers.

Joseph was a savior of mankind and his head was the NZR. Nazoraion's believed and still believe all will be saved in the end, through the proper discipline, they are non meat eaters. That is why Yahoshua was the ressurection and life if he touched death it would come back to life.
Lucifer was heylel {hay-lale'}

Heylel wanted to be the most High and rule over the most High, that is he wanted to exploit and abuse and use people for his own pleasure and then throw them away, as Hitler did that is why they said heylel Hitler. Heylel is a title which comes in light and deceives though using the blackness so comes the name son of shachar {shakh'-ar} = blackness. Heylel is the son of 'shachar or darkness.


Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer (Heylel), son of the morning (Shachar)! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
 Quoting: nzreva


Thanks much for your input on the discussion! :-) Very interesting!!

hf
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Mr_Electric (OP)

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03/16/2012 07:47 AM

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Re: Is Jesus Lucifer? -- The Truth!!!
Here is a great link I found to a site that talks all about this. I'd rather you guys read David Lowe's book, but if you won't or don't have the money, then this is a pretty good summary. It's just that David's book goes into so much more detail and is way more interesting of a read.

Is "Lucifer" the Devil in Isaiah 14:12? - The KJV Argument against Modern Translations
Study By: Daniel B. Wallace
[link to bible.org]

Some excerpts.... Click the link above to read the whole article...

-----------------------------------

In other words, lucifer is not a proper name, but is the Latin word for ‘morning star’ or ‘day star.’ The KJV simply reproduced the Latin in Isa 14:12 because they were not sure what ‏הילל meant. The KJV translators knew Latin better than they knew Greek or Hebrew. In places where they were not sure what the Greek or Hebrew meant, they simply translated or reproduced verbatim the Latin text. This has happened scores, if not hundreds, of times.

Since that time, Lucifer has made its way into English Bible interpretation as another name for the devil. If there is a conspiracy to sabotage the deity of Christ by translating the Hebrew word ‏הילל in Isa 14:12 as ‘morning star,’ the same as is done with φωσφόρος in 2 Peter 1:19, then this conspiracy goes back to Jerome at the beginning of the fifth century AD! In reality, he translated the Hebrew word faithfully and the Greek word faithfully. It is the KJV that did not translate the word at all, but rather retained the Latin rendering of Jerome in Isa 14:12 and worse, simply transliterated the Hebrew in Job 38:32.2 Jerome cannot be charged with not knowing Hebrew well. He moved to Bethlehem and lived there for 35 years while he worked on the translation. He wanted to learn Hebrew well; making his home for 35 years in the land of the jewish people is sufficient proof of that.

But aren’t the references to the individuals in Isa 14:12 and 2 Peter 1:19 as the morning star in modern translations confusing? And thus don’t modern translations undermine the deity of Christ? The reality is that in Isa 14:12 the primary or initial reference of ‘morning star’ is not to the devil but to the Babylonian king. The footnote in the NET Bible here says, “What is the background for the imagery in vv. 12–15? This whole section (vv. 4b–21) is directed to the king of Babylon, who is clearly depicted as a human ruler. Other kings of the earth address him in vv. 9ff., he is called ‘the man’ in v. 16, and, according to vv. 19–20, he possesses a physical body.” At the same time, Isa 14:12–15 seems to go beyond a description of a mortal king. Further, if Jesus in Luke 10:18 and John in Rev 9:1 had this passage in mind, then it is evident that there is a secondary meaning that relates to the devil himself. A double-fulfillment prophecy is thus probably in view.

Here’s the point: if the primary referent is to the Babylonian king (which the great majority of biblical scholars would affirm and as the evidence mentioned in the NET Bible footnote lists), then our understanding of the use of ‘morning star’ in 2 Peter 1:19 makes sense. The morning star literally referred to Venus, but in ancient times it was used metaphorically of earthly kings. The note in the NET Bible at 2 Peter 1:19 is helpful along these lines:

The reference to the morning star constitutes a double entendre. First, the term was normally used to refer to Venus. But the author of course has a metaphorical meaning in mind, as is obvious from the place where the morning star is to rise— “in your hearts.” Most commentators see an allusion to Num 24:17 (“a star shall rise out of Jacob”) in Peter’s words. Early Christian exegesis saw in that passage a prophecy about Christ’s coming. Hence, in this verse Peter tells his audience to heed the OT scriptures which predict the return of Christ, then alludes to one of the passages that does this very thing, all the while running the theme of light on a parallel track. In addition, it may be significant that Peter’s choice of terms here is not the same as is found in the LXX. He has used a Hellenistic word that was sometimes used of emperors and deities, perhaps as a further polemic against the paganism of his day.

In other words, ‘morning star’ or lucifer in the Latin Vulgate literally referred to Venus, but metaphorically would refer to earthly kings, emperors, and pagan deities. Peter thus may have chosen this word to show that the real morning star was Jesus, not Caesar. Isaiah 14:12 thus spoke of the Babylonian king as the morning star and thus predicted his fall. Jesus and John used this text to indicate that Satan would fall. It is only by turning lucifer into a proper name, as has been done by KJV advocates, that misunderstanding of the meaning of these texts could occur. The logic of the KJV position is as follows.......

---------------------------------------

Peace.
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Anonymous Coward
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03/16/2012 07:49 AM
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Re: Is Jesus Lucifer? -- The Truth!!!
No, Jesus is not remotely 'lucifer' the concept is yet another NWO strategy to homosexualise the sacred, if they can get you to believe that Jesus and satan are a yin/yang thing then they are moving you closer to accepting this homosexual heaven notion the mooozies are deluded by. You think heaven is faggy?
Anonymous Coward
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03/16/2012 07:49 AM
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Re: Is Jesus Lucifer? -- The Truth!!!
Ok. So Venus is the morning star that appears before the true light the sun. The light from Venus is a reflection of light from the sun and announces its arrival. So could it be a parable? Jesus is a refection of the Light of God and announces His arrival? Or, is Jesus a bearer of light because of his ascension and is a Light-body?
Anonymous Coward
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03/16/2012 07:50 AM
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Re: Is Jesus Lucifer? -- The Truth!!!
Think again!

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