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Oh really? New Shroud of Turin theory

 
Sacred Chao Herder

User ID: 11988438
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03/28/2012 12:58 AM

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Oh really? New Shroud of Turin theory
So our ancestors couldn't distinguish between fantasy and reality? Really? This seems a bit ridiculous. I won't say I know what the Shroud of Turin is or isn't, but I can't by any stretch of the imagination go with this theory, lol.


[link to www.huffingtonpost.com]

From the article...

"Throughout most of history images have been viewed as mysterious, metaphysical beings... Before the Enlightenment, images of gods, sains, spirits and ancestors were routinely credited with power, not only affecting the emotions of those who looked at them, but also influencing the course of events. In the premodern world images were perceived to be, in some sense, alive."
 Quoting: On the Shroud of Turin

"Chaos exists as a pool of possibilities that order draws from and organizes according to creative desire. Some things get tossed down the memory hole only to reemerge later when the need arises. Neither chaos nor order holds a monopoly on creation and destruction, creative or destructive chaos exists as does creative and destructive order." - ME! Yeah, Bea :) snoocherdoodle@gmail.com
Anonymous Coward
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03/28/2012 01:14 AM
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Re: Oh really? New Shroud of Turin theory
Actually, were you an "energy sensitive" you would be able to feel the energy/frequency coming from the Shroud. It is quite potent and of high frequency. Why such should be the case i have no idea. What it means exactly i don't know. But it surely means something. BTW, i am most surely no "Christian".
Anonymous Coward
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03/28/2012 01:17 AM
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Re: Oh really? New Shroud of Turin theory
P.S. I should add that frequencies, especially high, beneficial ones, can definitely have a favorable effect upon those who are in range of such -- calming, healing, uplifting. And much more so for those who are "sensitives".
Anonymous Coward
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03/28/2012 01:18 AM
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Re: Oh really? New Shroud of Turin theory
Actually, were you an "energy sensitive" you would be able to feel the energy/frequency coming from the Shroud. It is quite potent and of high frequency. Why such should be the case i have no idea. What it means exactly i don't know. But it surely means something. BTW, i am most surely no "Christian".
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13373330


how potent and which frequency? if you don't know and have no idea what bejeezus are you on about?
Anonymous Coward
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03/28/2012 01:22 AM
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Re: Oh really? New Shroud of Turin theory
Actually, were you an "energy sensitive" you would be able to feel the energy/frequency coming from the Shroud. It is quite potent and of high frequency. Why such should be the case i have no idea. What it means exactly i don't know. But it surely means something. BTW, i am most surely no "Christian".
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13373330


how potent and which frequency? if you don't know and have no idea what bejeezus are you on about?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13342222


OK, i'll play: Quite potent -- strong enough to have a definite effect upon a person's energy field. And of a high enough frequency so that it would be considered very healing by a Reiki or Chi Kung master
xen

User ID: 1370697
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03/28/2012 01:23 AM
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Re: Oh really? New Shroud of Turin theory
Peter Piper picked a peck of pickled peppers
Did Peter Piper pick a peck of pickled peppers?
If Peter Piper Picked a peck of pickled peppers
Where's the peck of pickled peppers Peter Piper picked?


???

[link to www.fun-with-words.com]

iamwith

Last Edited by xen on 03/28/2012 01:24 AM
Anonymous Coward
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03/28/2012 01:30 AM
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Re: Oh really? New Shroud of Turin theory
Actually, were you an "energy sensitive" you would be able to feel the energy/frequency coming from the Shroud. It is quite potent and of high frequency. Why such should be the case i have no idea. What it means exactly i don't know. But it surely means something. BTW, i am most surely no "Christian".
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13373330


how potent and which frequency? if you don't know and have no idea what bejeezus are you on about?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13342222


OK, i'll play: Quite potent -- strong enough to have a definite effect upon a person's energy field. And of a high enough frequency so that it would be considered very healing by a Reiki or Chi Kung master
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13373330


very healing?

didn't do much for the original brian did it?
Anonymous Coward
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03/28/2012 01:36 AM
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Re: Oh really? New Shroud of Turin theory
Actually, were you an "energy sensitive" you would be able to feel the energy/frequency coming from the Shroud. It is quite potent and of high frequency. Why such should be the case i have no idea. What it means exactly i don't know. But it surely means something. BTW, i am most surely no "Christian".
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13373330


how potent and which frequency? if you don't know and have no idea what bejeezus are you on about?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13342222


OK, i'll play: Quite potent -- strong enough to have a definite effect upon a person's energy field. And of a high enough frequency so that it would be considered very healing by a Reiki or Chi Kung master
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13373330


very healing?

didn't do much for the original brian did it?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13342222


You win: Your logic is too powerful for me to ever hope to overcome. Best of luck !!
Sacred Chao Herder (OP)

User ID: 11988438
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03/28/2012 01:42 AM

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Re: Oh really? New Shroud of Turin theory
Energy? I can buy that to a degree. But to think it was an actual presence? Eh, maybe I'm wrong and giving our ancestors too much credit in the logic department. I'm skeptically gnostic agnostic we're all one at the root of it kind of girl and that still doesn't begin to describe my "belief". I just can't get behind these theories that basically state our ancestors had no logic about them even though historical sources tell me I should. Like a cheerfully misanthropic Pollyanna that wants to believe, lmao. Who knows? Just found it interesting.
"Chaos exists as a pool of possibilities that order draws from and organizes according to creative desire. Some things get tossed down the memory hole only to reemerge later when the need arises. Neither chaos nor order holds a monopoly on creation and destruction, creative or destructive chaos exists as does creative and destructive order." - ME! Yeah, Bea :) snoocherdoodle@gmail.com
Anonymous Coward
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03/28/2012 01:47 AM
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Re: Oh really? New Shroud of Turin theory
...


how potent and which frequency? if you don't know and have no idea what bejeezus are you on about?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13342222


OK, i'll play: Quite potent -- strong enough to have a definite effect upon a person's energy field. And of a high enough frequency so that it would be considered very healing by a Reiki or Chi Kung master
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13373330


very healing?

didn't do much for the original brian did it?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13342222


You win: Your logic is too powerful for me to ever hope to overcome. Best of luck !!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13373330


luck! there you go again!
there is nothing to win...

how about talking/dealing with things more pressing than a piece of cloth, which is all the turin shroud will ever be
Sacred Chao Herder (OP)

User ID: 11988438
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03/28/2012 01:54 AM

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Re: Oh really? New Shroud of Turin theory
Why would it be something to win or lose? I'm just curious about how so called experts like Jaynes and this guy act as if our ancestors were stark raving superstitious morons who equated objects with walking talking people. I'm not questioning the authenticity of the shroud, I haven't the education on the matter to discuss it meaningfully nor a dog in that fight, as it were.
"Chaos exists as a pool of possibilities that order draws from and organizes according to creative desire. Some things get tossed down the memory hole only to reemerge later when the need arises. Neither chaos nor order holds a monopoly on creation and destruction, creative or destructive chaos exists as does creative and destructive order." - ME! Yeah, Bea :) snoocherdoodle@gmail.com
Anonymous Coward
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03/28/2012 02:01 AM
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Re: Oh really? New Shroud of Turin theory
Energy? I can buy that to a degree. But to think it was an actual presence? Eh, maybe I'm wrong and giving our ancestors too much credit in the logic department. I'm skeptically gnostic agnostic we're all one at the root of it kind of girl and that still doesn't begin to describe my "belief". I just can't get behind these theories that basically state our ancestors had no logic about them even though historical sources tell me I should. Like a cheerfully misanthropic Pollyanna that wants to believe, lmao. Who knows? Just found it interesting.
 Quoting: Sacred Chao Herder



It's always a sure thing to hear all about you in your posts.
Sacred Chao Herder (OP)

User ID: 11988438
United States
03/28/2012 02:03 AM

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Re: Oh really? New Shroud of Turin theory
Energy? I can buy that to a degree. But to think it was an actual presence? Eh, maybe I'm wrong and giving our ancestors too much credit in the logic department. I'm skeptically gnostic agnostic we're all one at the root of it kind of girl and that still doesn't begin to describe my "belief". I just can't get behind these theories that basically state our ancestors had no logic about them even though historical sources tell me I should. Like a cheerfully misanthropic Pollyanna that wants to believe, lmao. Who knows? Just found it interesting.
 Quoting: Sacred Chao Herder



It's always a sure thing to hear all about you in your posts.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1531317


Because I only have my perception and I want to hear about others perceptions. Tell me yours instead of doing the "Marsha! Marsha! Marsha!" thing. I'm equally happy to talk about you :)
"Chaos exists as a pool of possibilities that order draws from and organizes according to creative desire. Some things get tossed down the memory hole only to reemerge later when the need arises. Neither chaos nor order holds a monopoly on creation and destruction, creative or destructive chaos exists as does creative and destructive order." - ME! Yeah, Bea :) snoocherdoodle@gmail.com
Anonymous Coward
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03/28/2012 02:03 AM
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Re: Oh really? New Shroud of Turin theory
jebus' bog roll?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1531317
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03/28/2012 02:18 AM
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Re: Oh really? New Shroud of Turin theory
Energy? I can buy that to a degree. But to think it was an actual presence? Eh, maybe I'm wrong and giving our ancestors too much credit in the logic department. I'm skeptically gnostic agnostic we're all one at the root of it kind of girl and that still doesn't begin to describe my "belief". I just can't get behind these theories that basically state our ancestors had no logic about them even though historical sources tell me I should. Like a cheerfully misanthropic Pollyanna that wants to believe, lmao. Who knows? Just found it interesting.
 Quoting: Sacred Chao Herder



It's always a sure thing to hear all about you in your posts.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1531317


Because I only have my perception and I want to hear about others perceptions. Tell me yours instead of doing the "Marsha! Marsha! Marsha!" thing. I'm equally happy to talk about you :)
 Quoting: Sacred Chao Herder


Well played. Now isn't it your bedtime?

:)
Sacred Chao Herder (OP)

User ID: 11988438
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03/28/2012 02:20 AM

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Re: Oh really? New Shroud of Turin theory
No, I'm up for a bit yet... Tim's devouring Lost on Netflix. I think I'll hook him up with New Age Messiah so he can ask him what it means, I can't get into it.
"Chaos exists as a pool of possibilities that order draws from and organizes according to creative desire. Some things get tossed down the memory hole only to reemerge later when the need arises. Neither chaos nor order holds a monopoly on creation and destruction, creative or destructive chaos exists as does creative and destructive order." - ME! Yeah, Bea :) snoocherdoodle@gmail.com
Judgmenthasbegun.

User ID: 12970626
Australia
03/28/2012 02:21 AM
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Re: Oh really? New Shroud of Turin theory
So our ancestors couldn't distinguish between fantasy and reality? Really? This seems a bit ridiculous. I won't say I know what the Shroud of Turin is or isn't, but I can't by any stretch of the imagination go with this theory, lol.


[link to www.huffingtonpost.com]

From the article...

"Throughout most of history images have been viewed as mysterious, metaphysical beings... Before the Enlightenment, images of gods, sains, spirits and ancestors were routinely credited with power, not only affecting the emotions of those who looked at them, but also influencing the course of events. In the premodern world images were perceived to be, in some sense, alive."
 Quoting: On the Shroud of Turin

 Quoting: Sacred Chao Herder

It can be proved to be a fake using the Holy Bible.The Bible says long hair on a man is an abomination.That solves it.It is fake.
Judgmenthasbegun.
Anonymous Coward
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03/28/2012 03:09 AM
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Re: Oh really? New Shroud of Turin theory
yeah but...the body was missing!
aether

User ID: 1412926
United Kingdom
03/28/2012 01:31 PM

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Re: Oh really? New Shroud of Turin theory
“back then images had a psychological presence, they were seen as part of a separate plain [sic] of existence, as having a life of their own.”
 Quoting: link


i think i see where the author is going beau
he is saying that it was believed the "soul" could manifest or be enticed to manifest in a suitable geometric shape/structure following the souls leaving it`s original location (body)

does that sound right?

Last Edited by aether on 03/28/2012 01:31 PM
aether

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03/28/2012 01:35 PM

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Re: Oh really? New Shroud of Turin theory
“back then images had a psychological presence, they were seen as part of a separate plain [sic] of existence, as having a life of their own.”
 Quoting: link


i think i see where the author is going beau
he is saying that it was believed the "soul" could manifest or be enticed to manifest in a suitable geometric shape/structure following the souls leaving it`s original location (body)

does that sound right?
 Quoting: aether


or construct something that the life force you desire to invoke likes to settle within

egregore springs to mind

Egregore can dwell within objects, fetishes and statues. It is not necessary for their manifestation but it helps. The Catholic and Voodoo obsession with relics/ fetishes is because of the power of the egregore behind them. The fetishes and relics/icons become spiritual computer terminals where members of the group can connect to the egregore to upload or download information or energy.
 Quoting: observation
Anonymous Coward
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03/28/2012 01:35 PM
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Re: Oh really? New Shroud of Turin theory
Shroud of Turin is the image of Jacques De Molay created by the Knights Templar/Freemasons to commemorate his martyrdom.
Sacred Chao Herder (OP)

User ID: 11988438
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03/28/2012 01:40 PM

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Re: Oh really? New Shroud of Turin theory
“back then images had a psychological presence, they were seen as part of a separate plain [sic] of existence, as having a life of their own.”
 Quoting: link


i think i see where the author is going beau
he is saying that it was believed the "soul" could manifest or be enticed to manifest in a suitable geometric shape/structure following the souls leaving it`s original location (body)

does that sound right?
 Quoting: aether


I'll have to read the entire thing before I decide... maybe my thinking is too narrow on this. I'll own it, not enough information to form an entire thought experiment so I go all skeptical, lmao. Add that to a modern outlook, ie. no fetishizing objects because there's no framework built by culture to do so... I had this issue reading Julian Jaynes work on the bicameral mind, too. Call it a character failing, thinking too highly of the rationality of humanity, lol.
"Chaos exists as a pool of possibilities that order draws from and organizes according to creative desire. Some things get tossed down the memory hole only to reemerge later when the need arises. Neither chaos nor order holds a monopoly on creation and destruction, creative or destructive chaos exists as does creative and destructive order." - ME! Yeah, Bea :) snoocherdoodle@gmail.com
Anonymous Coward
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03/28/2012 01:45 PM
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Re: Oh really? New Shroud of Turin theory
So our ancestors couldn't distinguish between fantasy and reality? Really? This seems a bit ridiculous. I won't say I know what the Shroud of Turin is or isn't, but I can't by any stretch of the imagination go with this theory, lol.


[link to www.huffingtonpost.com]

From the article...

"Throughout most of history images have been viewed as mysterious, metaphysical beings... Before the Enlightenment, images of gods, sains, spirits and ancestors were routinely credited with power, not only affecting the emotions of those who looked at them, but also influencing the course of events. In the premodern world images were perceived to be, in some sense, alive."
 Quoting: On the Shroud of Turin

 Quoting: Sacred Chao Herder


All good artists hew images which are 'alive' in the collective psyche

Nous


[link to www.thefreedictionary.com]
aether

User ID: 1412926
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03/28/2012 01:50 PM

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Re: Oh really? New Shroud of Turin theory
So our ancestors couldn't distinguish between fantasy and reality? Really? This seems a bit ridiculous. I won't say I know what the Shroud of Turin is or isn't, but I can't by any stretch of the imagination go with this theory, lol.


[link to www.huffingtonpost.com]

From the article...

"Throughout most of history images have been viewed as mysterious, metaphysical beings... Before the Enlightenment, images of gods, sains, spirits and ancestors were routinely credited with power, not only affecting the emotions of those who looked at them, but also influencing the course of events. In the premodern world images were perceived to be, in some sense, alive."
 Quoting: On the Shroud of Turin

 Quoting: Sacred Chao Herder


All good artists hew images which are 'alive' in the collective psyche

Nous


[link to www.thefreedictionary.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13364220


i agree

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